Saturday, 14 September 2013

WOMANISING PRIESTS

WOMANISING PRIESTS


WHILE THE PRIESTHOOD IN 2013 IN A PREDOMINANTLY A GAY PROFESSION THERE ARE STILL QUITE A NUMBER OF CATHOLIC PRIESTS AROUND WHO ARE SERIAL WOMANISERS.

MANY OF THESE WOMANISING PRIESTS ARE NOT CONTENT WITH 1 WOMAN - THEY WANT SEVERAL. 

PRIEST 1:

ONE IRISH RELIGIOUS ORDER PRIEST I KNOW HAS 3 WOMEN IN HIS LIFE:

THE FIRST ONE IS AN IRISH NUN WHOM HE DESCRIBES AS HIS "SPIRITUAL WIFE". WITH THIS FIRST WOMAN HE HAS FULL PENETRATIVE SEX - BUT THEY HAVE NOT MADE AND BABIES.

HIS NUMBER 2 WOMAN IS A MARRIED WOMAN. HE HAS SEX WITH THIS WOMEN TOO BUT STOPS SHORT OF PENETRATION.

HIS NUMBER 3 WOMAN IS A WIDOW WITH WHOM HE ALSO HAS NON-PENETRATIVE SEX.


THIS RELIGIOUS ORDER PRIEST TOURS IRELAND GIVING PARISH RETREATS AND RETREATS T NUNS. HE TELLS HIS WOMEN THAT HIS "WORK" PUTS GREAT STRESS ON HIM AND THAT HE CANNOT COPE WITH CELIBACY AND THAT IN SERVING HIM SEXUALLY THEY ARE ACTUALLY SERVING GOD AND HELPING HIM TO DO GOD'S WORK. 

WOMEN 1, 2 AND 3 KNOW EACH OTHER AND OCCASIONALLY MEET. THEY ARE DRIVEN MAD WITH JEALOUSY FOR EACH OTHER AND THIS PRIEST SEEMS TO "GET OFF" ON THEIR JEALOUSY. 

ALL THOSE WHO ATTEND THIS PRIEST'S MASSES AND RETREATS SAY THAT HE IS "A VERY HOLY MAN"
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PRIEST 2:

PRIEST 2 IS FROM THE WEST OF IRELAND AND THIS PRIEST IS AC/DC - HE LIKES MEN AS WELL AS WOMEN.

HE CALLS HIS CLERICAL COLLAR HIS "BIRD CATCHER".

HE HAS A BOY FRIEND IN A BIG CITY AND WORKS AS A PRIEST IN A LARGE IRISH TOWN.

THE WOMEN IN HIS LIFE IS A STUNNING LOOKING YOUNG WOMAN AND YOU'D WONDER WHY SHE BOTHERS WITH HIM - AS SHE KNOWS THAT HE IS "BI".

BUT SHE IS SMITTEN BY HIM. SHE ATTENDS HIS MASSES EVERYDAY AND SITS IN THE PEWS JUST STARING UP AT THE LOVE OF HER LIFE.

WHEN SHE GOES UP TO HOLY COMMUNION TO HIM HE DOES NOT SAY THE NORMAL "THE BODY OF CHRIST"

INSTEAD HE DISRESPECTFULLY AND SACRILIGIOUSLY SAYS TO HER IN WHISPERS:

"CHRIST WHAT A BODY"!
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PRIEST 3:

PRIEST 3 IS A PARISH PRIEST OF THE DIOCESE OF DOWN AND CONNOR. HE GOT OFF TO AN EARLY START WITH HIS WOMANISING SEX LIFE.

AS A YOUNG CURATE HIS PARISH PRIEST WAS AWAY AND HE WAS HAVING A FLING WITH A YOUNG WOMAN

HE BROUGHT HER TO THE PRESBYTERY AND THEY STARTED DRINKING IN THE SITTING ROOM. THEY CONTINUED DRINKING AND STRIPPING THEIR CLOTHES OFF OUT INTO THE HALL WAY, UP THE STAIRS AND INTO THE PRIESTS BEDROOM WHERE THEY CONSUMMATED THE EVENING. WITH NO ONE IN THE HOUSE THEY LEFT THE BEDROOM DOOR OPEN. 

THE PARISH PRIEST ARRIVED HOME UNEXPECTEDLY AND FOUND THE UNDER GARMENTS OF THE PRIEST AND HIS LADY FRIEND STREWN ALONG THE HALL WAY AND UP ALONG THE STAIRS.

BEING A VERY GOOD AND DISCREET PARISH PRIEST HE NEVER MENTIONED THE INCIDENT TO ANYONE - NOT EVEN HIS ASSISTANT - WHO IS SO ARROGANT HE PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EMBARRASSED ANYWAY. 
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THE ABOVE THREE STORIES ARE ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND ACCURATE AND IF ANY BISHOP OR RELIGIOUS SUPERIOR WANTS THE DETAILS I WILL PROVIDE THEM.

THE PROBLEM OF COURSE IS THAT MANY OF THE RELIGIOUS SUPERIORS ARE "AT IT" THEMSELVES.

REMEMBER BISHOP CASEY OF IRELAND 


AND BISHOP RODDY WRIGHT OF SCOTLAND


THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH A PRIEST OR A WOMAN FALLING IN LOVE. IN FACT PRIESTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO FALL IN LOVE AND MARRY. 

BUT THERE IS SOMETHING TERRIBLY WRONG WITH THESE "JACK THE LAD" PRIESTS GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD USING AND ABUSING WOMEN EMOTIONALLY.

THERE IS ALSO SOMETHING WRONG AND HYPOCRITICAL ABOUT THESE PRIESTS MOUNTING THE PULPIT ON SUNDAY TO CONDEMN THEIR CONGREGATIONS FOR ADULTERY AND SEXUAL SINS. 

AND OF COURSE THERE ARE WOMEN WHO SEEM TO BE ATTRACTED TO PRIESTS AS THE "FORBIDDEN FRUIT".

CELIBACY SHOULD BE OPTIONAL AND NOT COMPULSORY.

PRIESTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO MARRY.

BUT EVEN IF PRIESTS COULD MARRY YOU WILL GET SOME PRIESTS WHO ARE NOT HAPPY WITH ONE WOMAN.

THEY ARE NOT CALLED "FATHER JACK". THEY ARE CALLED "FATHER JACK THE LAD"

I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO HEAR PEOPLE'S COMMENTS AND STORIES ON THIS TOPIC.

Bishop Pat Buckley
14.9.2013 








74 comments:

  1. Bishop Pat, I had a three year affair with my local priest here in Northern Ireland some years ago and accidentially fell pregnant. When I told him I was expecting he changed completely towards me. Very quickly he dropped me and I received no help from him during my pregnancy or when I had his son. He refused to have any contact with me. I eventually approached his bishop who severely reprimanded me for leading a priest astray! He moved the priest to another parish where he soon was having an affair with another woman. Eventually his bishop arranged for him to go to the US where he still ministers today and where I am sure he has another woman/women. The diocese gave me a modest lump sum which I have placed in trust for my son's education. My son thinks that his father is dead. Part of me wants to tell him who his daddy is and maybe when he is a little older I will. I am glad you highlighted this topic in your blog. I am not complaining. I was an adult - although he did deduce me on the second occasion we met. I feel sorry for the children of priests. Annie Murphy is not alone. D.

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  2. Reading the above B is for Bishop & B is for Bollix. No offence to you Pat! I can share what I personaly know. I was ordained in 1987 and sent to the parish of Stechford in Birmingham. Fr Tom whom I replaced had sex with a parishoner who was an active parish member. The lady was a deacent soul but did have a number of liasons with other men but there was no way she was leaving her family for anyone. How much her husband knew or did not know can only be surmised. The leading women of the parish warned me off this lady but sean being sean the inevatible happened. The big S. Sean got the bug & got it bad. Time ticked on & lo & behold Sean got recalled to Ireland by the bold Dominic Conway now RIP. Sean returned to be placed in St Annes Parish Sligo where he remained until he left in 1999. What I did not know is that I was to replace Rev Niall Mc Dermott OP whom Conway had finally got out of his hair. Mc Dermott was something of a contriversial preacher & Conway was glad to see the back of. What I also did not know at the time was that none of the other elphin priests wanted to be sent to St Annes because it was ruled by the Council of Three. There was Dominick Gillooly, the wise old man of the west. There was Eugene McLoughlin who was stiff as a board & dry as a creamcracker. Finaly there was Maid Marian McGowan. The Parish was her life & she wielded the power. While all us priests were at the mercy of Dominic Conway, Marian was a fixture who wielded the power & everyone knew it but nobody said nought-as they say in Lancashire. Now & then the talk of things around the table would turn to things sexual because of what somebody had done or allegedly done in the parish. Gillooly would say something about somebody dipping their wick- A comment I surmise from his semi fantastic imagenings, Mary the housekeeper stood at the cooker with her ears pinned back like a listening ass would chime Ha Ha. Mcgowan if appropriate would say something derogatory about one of "the disreputable" families of the parish if appropriate. McLoughlin would smile drily in agreement if he were present. I found the whole thing sad & rather sickening. Irish folk fantacise about "doin it with a padre" as my wife found out when we recently visited Castlerea, my home town. Clarice not sure of directions went into the yard of a farm produce shop on St Patricks Street Castlerea to ask about worming products for our horse. The man there realising she was my wife asked her what I was like in bed & attempted to touch her improperly. She sorted it out & in a fashion advised him that if he wanted his hands to work properly for the rest of the day he would need to return very quickly to the correct side of being appropriate. There is allot of noncence,superstition & Bulls*it believed both inside & outside the Irish RC church when it comes to priests, nuns & sexuality. The sooner the lid is blown off the whole sorry lot the better for all. Sean

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  3. Clarice wants me to point out she was not lookin for directions when she entered the farm shop. That came later. Just by chance we are now off to see what a group of Sunday School children make of the lost sheep story...O happy day! Sean

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  4. This brings up the question of clerical continence for these priests, much the same as married deacons. I wonder when the Church is going to address this issue of married clerics.

    Dan

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    1. Clerical continence! I like it. Try Adult Pampers that sholud cover their conscience & mentality. The same standard of dignity, respect and conduct is expected of every person towards others be they clerical or not. Sean

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  5. Interesting. Of course, it will not change anytime soon, but maybe eventually …

    PERM DEACON

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  6. I’m beginning to think the eastern rites and Orthodox may have had it right all along, and about more than just celibacy. Perhaps there are fewer scandals of all kinds because the clerical vocation has not been such a lofty one with all of the attendant problems of pride and power we sometimes find in the Latin Church.

    I remember the 60 minutes special last year on the Greek Orthodox Patriarche Bartholomew in Istanbul, the east’s equivalent of the pope. He not only seemed a very humble man but he lived humbly as well amidst persecution from the muslim gov’t. The pomp and power and priviledge of Rome may be just too tempting, especially for those who set themselves on the clerical career ladder which tends to select for CEO personalities.

    Catholic Businessman

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    1. Mr Businessman You got it in one. Western Church sees clerical orders as aloof, lord bishop, kissing rings etc. As a priest I had the "power" I was of the aloof mentality & didn't even know it. I am learning to change my mind on how I understand priesthood & church etc. It is all about service & sharing a common journey. Sean

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  7. I remember being at History Club and this girl was really arguing for a celibate priesthood. I was really agreeing with her at first then someone gave me a look. It turned out she was the daughter of a Catholic priest who had been Episcopalian.

    I’m skeptical Eastern Orthodoxy or Eastern-rite Catholics have no scandals. If it’s true it’s not simply a matter of celibacy as their bishops, I’m pretty sure, are celibate. Also the Anglicans have had sex scandals since the Victorian age at least, some of the abuse in Australian schools was Anglican plus “Vicar and Tart” parties I’d guess started with something, and their priests aren’t celibate.

    Thomas - USA

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  8. Neither that rosy experience nor my more negative one proves much, but I’d think an advocate for change would need more than rosy anecdotes. There’s not much in the way of evidence though except “hey look at this married priest, he’s alright” which isn’t any different than what I did. (Possibly the article does support the idea the priest should have a secretary or assistant, even if that wasn’t the intent) I was sort-of thinking this would actually have answers, but it’s just opinion. An opinion that might be correct, but might not be.

    Ex Catholic

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  9. A married man can become a priest. But a priest cannot become a married man. It is that way in the Eastern Church, and in the diaconate, as well — though in the latter, there have been exceptions in which widowed deacons with young children have been permitted to remarry. But they are rare.

    Dcn. G.

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  10. For me there are 3 things to think about - we men are funny and we need to at least have a debate about the whole thing:

    A) If this group of men had thought they could marry and then become priests they would have done that. Instead they decided “I will sacrifice a desire for marriage because a priest is my true calling” only to discover they still wanted to marry so left and did so.

    or

    B) This group would have been numerically overwhelmed by the number of married men who would have become priest if that were allowed.

    Although I largely believe in a celibate priesthood, from what I know the difficulties of being a married Catholic priest can be way more real than this article acknowledges (it’s kind of an advocacy piece), I do think it’s not precisely necessary. Also that maybe it does attract a disproportionately “weird” (not abusive understand, just maybe excessively shy or offputtingly eccentric or sometimes same-sex attracted) group of guys.

    Sam

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  11. Commitment is entirely up to individuals. A calling is also individual rather than collective. There are many people who feel called to give up everything and are happy doing so. Secular thinking tends to look down on these people anyway.

    There are those who also come in with lists and throw a fit when things do not go their way.

    It’s like joining the army, where nobody knows what the outcome will be.

    It’s not about one being better than the other, but about what enables a person to stay more committed.

    The media seems to be under the impression that a religious vocation is like a career that anybody can pursue, without understanding it.

    Clearly some men in vocation are unable to keep celibacy and yet are good priests, why are not dealing with it?

    Sally

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  12. I just dont understand how a married priest can be a priest 100%.. How can he split his life between 2 families and care for The Lords flock if he has his own worries about his own family on his mind? Maybe I”m wrong, but then maybe I”m not.. What do others think?

    In saying that by the reasoning in your blog that is what is happening anyway?

    There seems to be a very big elephant in the room! Although, I may be wrong, but how many priests would want married anyway, are most of them not gay?

    Robyn

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    1. Does a Doctor have to be single to care for patients properly. Does a teacher have to be be single in order to educate a class, prepare lessons etc. If a priest was going for a M O T (vehicle safety test) what part of the exam would celibacy come under. The answer is not the first thing that comes into ones hand..sorry head. Sean

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  13. One day I called a Maronite priest to confirm my surprise to learn in the eastern rites in union with the Magisterium, Maronite priests have married and their sons usually became priests. I also asked, “Once ordained a Maronite priest, can a priest get married? To my surprise he answered, ”Yes” and told me he knows a local Maronite priest who just got married after his ordination. He confirmed the priest was not an convert Anglican priest in the Maronite Rite. I was very surprised to hear his answers ..

    Such healthy and balanced people, guess where I attend Mass and the sacraments, I want my children grwoing up balanced - I would not worry about my child becoming a priest in that great rite, he could still be fully human. Would I worry about him in the Roman rite - very very much and for many many reasons, the biggest reason would be celibacy; what kind of man would he be??

    May

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  14. I am a priest who is available to his people 24 hrs a day and do so. The commentary is hurtful to me and my countless brothers who try to serve faithfully.
    I am not against married priests and certainly understand theological and practical arguments on both sides. To promote this article, however, is hurtful.
    Pax, David

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    1. Why is it hurtful David? The truth is out there? SEan

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    2. Sean, it is hurtful because it is not based of evidence but on the opinions of Pat Buckley who, in fairness needs to look in the mirror.

      David

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    3. DAVID,

      PLEASE FEEL FREE TO TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN - EITHER ON HERE OR AT bishoppatbuckley@hotmail.com

      PAT

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    4. David Thank you for taking the time to answer me? Truth is I'm sat in me chair in Manchester & am empirically none the wiser one way or the other. Why has mainstream journalism not taken some of this on board? If Pat Buckley is allegedly so full of shit where are all the comments on here coming from? A gambler might say that the odds for all the contributions on this blog to be faked or manipulated are astronomical. Sean

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  15. My wife and I were married in 1966, I was ordained a deacon in 1978 and thus was in formation from 1975-78. A good bit of my formation was under the MSC Fathers and one of the things they encouraged us to do was to dream about our ministry and the impact it would have on the wider church of the “distant” future, say after the roll-over of the Second Millenia in 2000.

    I remember one of those “Brainstorming” sessions rather vividly. It was a consensus of my class of 25 (from three different dioceses, by the way) that there would be married men ordained to the Priesthood in the Western/Latin Rite by 1990 and there would be women called to the diaconate and ordained in that “order” by 2000.

    In fact, we were told by our priest-advisors-theologians that whenever married men would be permitted into priestly orders, the applicants would come from within the pool of experienced married deacons. That made perfect sense to them.

    Well, you can just see how different things have turned out. (1) What everyone assumed would be a logical step from being a married deacon to becoming a married priest is now not at all on anyone’s mind. (2) Instead, we have been seeing (almost since that 1975-1978 era), more and more already married former Lutheran Pastors and Episcopal Priests becoming married Western/Latin Catholic priests. AND (3) The subject of ordaining women to the diaconate has been opened up for widespread scholarly discussion while the idea of ordaining women to the presbyterate remains a closed topic.

    Our Church can be very cruel to its own!

    Painful and real.

    Deacon

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  16. I’m not qualified to discuss the theology or discipline but what about the economics of married priests? Permanent deacons must support themselves but priests rely on their order or diocese. Priests do not earn much cash – they do get accommodation and healthcare – but how much extra would it cost to fund married priests with children? I suppose the San Gabriel region of Los Angeles could cost that pretty accurately in light of recent events at an even nigher level but, seriously, how do eastern Catholics afford it? What do they pay their priests compared to the rest of us.
    Different point but doesn’t fact that married priests are coming from the ordinariate rather than the diaconate show how the diaconate really is a calling in its own right and not just a stepping stone to the presbyterate.

    C

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  17. I don’t know that healthy priests are 100% priests. In religious life, they are part of a community, and have community responsibilities apart from their vocation as a cleric. Having 100% priests may also foster 0% laity in the sense that if people rely on the clergy for every big and little thing, they may not be developing their own spiritual gifts to offer the Church.

    I’d like to think that marriage and a child have helped me mature as a person. It could be just that I’m older, but I’m sure my wife and daughter help me be a better minister in the Church.

    Todd

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  18. handle marriage and holy orders. But I wonder if it doesn’t short-circuit honest local discernment with a bishop and candidates for ministry. As an exception to the rule, I wouldn’t see a problem with a well-discerned situation of a priest or deacon marrying. The simple truth is that bishops are not trusted to the degree they were in apostolic and patristic times.

    As for mandatory celibacy for diocesan clergy, I have grave misgivings about the insistence of holding men to what amounts to a monastic discipline in a situation where so many parish priests are living essentially an eremitic life. Monastics will severely test for a vocation to be a hermit. And yet Roman Catholicism treats it as almost a given.

    Too bad the climate is so polluted that we can’t even have an honest discussion and open discernment about it. That’s probably the most serious crime/sin in the whole situation.

    Just my humble opinion.

    Catholic - Somerton Road, Belfast

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    1. Saddest thing I saw was old retired priests in Nazareth House in sligo. They were well looked after. Did anyone know their second name or even wonder what it was. Five weeks after the "Great Funeral" would anyone visit their grave to kneel & Pray? Sean

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  19. Somerton Road Catholic,

    You are “right-on” but probably in ways you do not suspect. Within a monastic setting, where there are lots of celibate men living in community with the support of guys that they have known for years, that is one VERY different environment.

    Now compare that with what was likely the case way back in the “pre-Vatican” church. Most parish houses had several priests in attendance. For instance, the parish house at my local parish —designed in the mid 1960′s and renovated in the 1970′s — has suites for FOUR priests. In 1975, there were 4 priests living there. As late as 2002, there were 2 priests living there. Now there is 1, soon to be none from what I hear!

    You are absolutely correct. Instead of a mini-monastery we now have a hermitage. It is an unacceptable situation for many good men. Look at Holy Family, St. Patrick's etc!

    John - Belfast



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  20. I’m not sure what to think — having been to a bunch of ordinations, it seems to me that something would have to be seriously lacking if the ordinand somehow didn’t figure out that this was an extraordinary commitment.

    I’ve seen this attitude that I think I was seeing at the end of the Times article before. It goes something like, “we’ve been ordained; we have an ontological sign; when they get desperate enough, they’ll come crawling back begging us to take up the priesthood again!” I was just responding with what I think most grown-up humans would respond, “yeah, true, ordination is permanent, but that doesn’t mean that we are obligated to let you anywhere near the active ministry again.”

    Why should my priest not be allowed to marry me, I have been in relationship with him for 8 years - Bishop Noel, I don't think he cares for his priests, but that suits me.

    Catholic, human and in relationship with an active priest - Belfast.

    Love your blog Bishop Pat.

    G (apols for not signing)

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    1. If your priest friend has 2 balls worth rubbing together he would ask Pat to conduct the ceremony. There is plenty of scope for him to continue ministry. Of course the wise rev & yourself could have a quiet civil ceremony. Rev could dig his heels in & tell Noel to piss off. See how many come to mass the following sunday. When I did that the loyal followers soon evaporated. Mind you that must be 15 years ago now. Has anything changed? Sean

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  21. Having known several priests who left the priesthood to marry and having observed their ministries, I have come to the conclusion that in many cases, those men should not have been ordained to a CELIBATE priesthood.

    To priesthood - YES - to celibacy NO - we are missing out on so much talent love and compassion. Will a non-celibate priesthood bring issues, sure, deal with them in an adult manner!

    George

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  22. Maybe I just miss the days when you could walk into a church anytime of the day or night and there was the priest.. I miss the days when the priest played a HUGE part in ones life in all area’s.. To me I think thats what is missing for the laity. Maybe if it were like that again things in the world would be much better.. Sorry, I am having a hard time finding the words I need to get my point across..

    Why can we not have a mature Church, with mature people having mature debates so that we can have priests in our lives again.

    P

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  23. “And converting us married permanent deacons isn’t the answer either, because our vows at ordination are permanent, not transitional, something I take very seriously.”

    I think I know what you meant but you are giving the impression that the ceremony and ritual of diaconal ordination is DIFFERENT between a permanently ordained deacon and a transitory one ordained as a deacon on his way to the priesthood.

    Let me tell our audience that the ritual and the words are the same.

    The one difference they might note is that the “oath to celibacy” is always administered in the rite to ordain a transitory deacon but only administered in the rite for a permanently ordained deacon IF there is a non-married candidate being called to orders.

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    1. When I was a deacon my ministry was not taken seriously. My formation & training during that year (in which Bishop Noel Treanor had some input) was a laugh. Irish RC Deaconate is nothing but flimsy windowdressing. Sean

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  24. Why would discussing the possibility of the celibacy requirement being lifted mean that one was less than orthodox, since it is a matter of discipline and not dogma?

    Jane

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  25. So basically, all celibate monks are weird, all celibate nuns are weird, and all celibate single persons are weird. Everybody is weird until the day they marry. (Unless, of course, they have unmarried sex every five minutes, which is why all prostitutes of both sexes are perfectly normal.)

    Wow, I’m so overcome with the normality of all married people in the Ireland today. Their normalcy just overwhelms me like a tidal wave. You watch Judge Judy or a reality TV show, and the normality is so obvious and pure.

    Sigh.

    Marriage can be as tough as celibacy - the difference lies in the sticking power!! Try going to bed with someone you no longer love!

    Maureen

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  26. What I see here is a lot of disrespect for men who discern properly in the seminary and follow their own vocation away from the priesthood or into it, and either way keep their vows.

    I see a lot of respect for men who didn’t get the discernment done right, or who broke their vows. It’s fair to say that a lot of men were pressured to stay in, especially back in the day; and certainly it’s better that men leave honorably rather than pretend while catting around, like that LA auxiliary bishop and as per se your blog.

    But this sort of one-size-fits-all stuff really torques me off. Nobody demands that a Franciscan morph into a Dominican, or claims that a bad Franciscan would automatically be good if the Franciscans abandoned their rule to become Benedictines. But everybody’s so darned sure that bad priests and pedophiles would suddenly become saints if they joined the Eastern Rite and got married!!!!

    I’m pretty sure the Eastern Rite doesn’t go around saying, “Hmm, let’s recruit a bunch of pedophiles and womanisers to be our priests! Perfect!” I bet Eastern Rite women aren’t dying to marry some seminarian who wants kids only for their bodies, either. And gosh, I wonder why they don’t. Maybe they would rather demand a lot of holy life out of their priests and monks and bishops, just like the Western Rite is supposed to do.

    Anyone have a look at my PP and know the stories going about!


    Rant over - confused Catholic, Portrush

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  27. We’ve had family, Nuns and priests, who lived their lives for the church as did most of our family since the last 65 yrs I know of.

    Currently, our young children especially the boys, will NOT be allowed to partake in any functions of Catholic church until such time as priests have more freedom…

    That is, priests are allowed to marry and have children, if they so choose. As long as the Catholic Church has a problem with priests entering into the sanctity of marriage as hundreds of millions of Other “men of God.” … and it may take a hundred years for this to fade, but Not go away… and I venture to say 1/2 or MORE of all who have left will Not return.

    The Church has a huge image problem that has not been addressed! The imag will remain and not change at all as long as websites like D&C.org don’t READILY promote this type dialogue and allow this type of forum to exist…not allow priest the joy of marriage and families…

    People like us are scared of this mysterious pedophile pipeline and will continue to not only turn away, but also Stay Away. Catholics such a Wonderfully Grand, Powerful setting, but terribly oh so flawed flock.

    Growing up we thought that would all change, allowing priest marriage under the Popes following John XXIII, but it did not happen… Catholics are not only standing up more now, but also they’re bowing out.

    Even when treated properly, It takes many decades for results of abuse cycles to fade. Please, don’t have to sweep it all under th rug, any longer… the last pope has turned his head way too many times with regard to the ill-dealings of his flock of priests…let us have more normal, normal looking priests doing the normal things humans do and the big problems will sort themselves out and we WILL COME HOME.

    Or, if the Catholic Church continues on with the same basis of
    priests-cannot-marry operation,
    those like us who have concerns for our young male children, … … WON’T!

    Signed; me a Doctor & my husband a Barrister - I sign our professions beacuse we know the real story and it scares us, truly it does. Belfast.

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  28. I am currently in formation for the permanent diaconate. I have often thought in the back of my mind that, at some point in the not-so-distant future, the door will open wider for a married priesthood in the Latin Rite, with permanent deacons an obvious source of potential candidates. This blog made me realise that I’m probably wrong.

    While I thought that the permanent diaconate would be a way to serve the Church, I’m quickly becoming frustrated by the one-size-fits-all approach to formation in my diocese, which completely ignores the fact that I already have a graduate degree in theology from a reputable and accredited Catholic institution. I just as well not have it as far as the diocese is concerned. I am now repeating many of the courses that I successfully completed in grad school for the diocese’s formation program. I am bored to death in most of my formation classes. I am actually being treated like a 17 year old novice! I hold a medical degree as well as my theology degree. Not that this really matters, I am an experienced man like the other men on the course. In moral and sexuality class I got into trouble when I suggested that we take the course and the priest listen, I have had my hands places he could only dream about was my statement. I was called into an office like a first year medical student and spoken down at. Very, very surreal!!

    I also get the sense that permanent deacons are only reluctantly considered clerics. In my diocese, transitional deacons may preach at Mass, but permanent deacons may preach at Mass only after completing an additional three years of post-ordination classes; even then, there’s no guarantee. Additionally, priests, deacons, and those in formation seem to have little contact with one another, as if each group was its own separate club.

    Wouldn’t it be great if we could come together once in a while to pray and support one another? Have I invested my time, energy, and financial resources only to be able to do little more than I did as a altar boy?

    My wife is now asking me to look at the Anglican communion - why I hear you say? "so you can be treated as a grown-up" was her words, she finds it difficult seeing how this clerical club actually works!! After years of practice as a medic I can say hand on heart that the same does not apply, it changed in the 1960's in order to allow knowledge and experience to pass freely in order to save lifes.

    The clerical club is way behind and I wondering if I can actually wait for it.

    D

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  29. I have attended three priestly ordinations in my diocese ( two this very year) of married episcopal priests. One of whom was baptized catholic as an infant. Today they are married catholic priests. Ordinariness or diocese that are married catholic priests. I observed that the assembly gathered didn’t seem to flinch nor were there any protestors . I am not convinced that these men became catholic overnight in their theology and beliefs. What I do know is that exceptions are made to the rule for “some” . We have evidence that marriage and priesthood are not mutually exclusive vocations! Celibacy is a gift to the church and society for sure…..gifts are freely given and received. Why continue to deprive so many from the availability of the Eucharist and Reconciliation in order to hold fast to a man made discipline that obviously can and has been changed throughout the centuries.?

    Peter - US

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  30. Just last week a young priest at a Pewaukee Catholic Church has resigned his duties as a result of a relationship he has had with a woman.

    Milwaukee Archbishop Jerome Listecki said in a letter to Catholics Tuesday that Father Sean O'Connell has stepped down as administrator of Queen of Apostles Parish for failing "to exercise good judgement in a relationship he has had with an adult woman."

    "Father Sean will need to address his actions and he will receive assistance in doing so," Listecki said.

    Crazy maddness, when will these Itailian men wak up and smell the coffee.

    Jane

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  31. The story of Roman Catholic priests breaking their celibacy vows is a tired tale and the old men can't cope with it. I would love to see my PP get married and stay in his parish. I would block the door if anyone tried to move him anyone!!

    Marie

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  32. The Rev. Bob Deshaies never dated while growing up in Waterbury, Conn. He went to a Catholic high school seminary, then a Catholic college, then a major seminary. "You'd be giving up your ministry for a cheap piece of fluff," his spiritual director told him.

    Then he met Deborah Cabral, a youth worker at a parish in Worcester, Mass. He got to know her first as a co-worker, then as a friend, then as a girlfriend. That meeting in 1985, and the relationship that followed, led into marriage, then out of the Catholic priesthood and into the Episcopal Church within two years, preceding Alberto Cutié by two decades.

    "When you meet a woman who opens up your heart and soul, it's mind-shattering," says Deshaies, now rector at St. Benedict's Episcopal Church in Plantation. "It got me to rethink everything."

    What a story - powerful.

    Get moving friends, if you love both your relationships which are God given and your priesthood - get a moving. I am currently transferring and I have never been as happy!!

    James

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  33. Priest forced to sleep in disused ambulance after row with Catholic ...
    www.watfordobserver.co.uk/.../9879750.Priest_forced_to_sleep_in_disused_ambulance_after_row_with_Catholic_church/

    Be careful when standing up as a priest, they really are cruel people these bishops.

    Frank

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  34. Some popes were poisoned. Others were suffocated or beaten to death. The body of Pope Formosus, who died of natural causes in 896 - was exhumed after nine months, dressed in pontifical vestments and placed on a throne for a mock trial on perjury charges.

    After the guilty verdict, Formosus's remains were tossed into the Tiber, minus the fingers from the hand he had used to give papal blessings. Stephen VII, the pope who ordered Formosus's macabre "cadaver synod", was later thrown into prison by outraged Romans, where he was strangled.

    Over two millennia, Catholicism's changing of the guard has yielded 264 official popes, along with several dozen pretenders. At least nine popes have been murdered; 13 have abdicated, resigned or otherwise relinquished the throne.

    Many popes were married in the first 1000 years of the church. Some of their sons even became popes. That's because celibacy didn't become a papal requirement, at least officially, until the 12th century. Prohibitions against sexual relations, however, didn't prevent Alexander VI (1492-1503), a member of the infamous Borgia family, sowing wild oats in Rome.

    In 2013 they still have no sexual balance!!!

    Honestly - beyond words! As for the Fr David above who speaks ill of Bishop Pat, wake up and realise your patronage both old and new friend.

    Friend of the Oratory Society

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  35. "Alexander VI was probably the most notorious pope in church history," says Richard Gaillardetz, the chairman of Catholic studies at the University of Toledo in Ohio. "He fathered nine illegitimate children, openly kept a mistress in the Vatican and was said to have poisoned several cardinals."

    What has changed lol, out clergy are still as sexually messed up and doing it in the dark and secret. Unhealthy bunch!

    Ex clerical student

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  36. Gregory XI, the last Frenchman crowned bishop of Rome, ventured back to the Vatican in 1377, only to die a year later.

    When cardinals met to elect his successor, an angry mob gathered outside to demand an Italian pope, says Fred Baumgartner, a history professor at Virginia Tech University.

    Baumgartner says: "One of their chants was 'Give us a Roman pope or your heads will be as bloody as your hats,"' a reference to the cardinals' red hats.

    The cowed cardinals elected Urban VI, but soon regretted it. A Neapolitan with powerful friends, Urban turned out to be a violent egomaniac. Within six months, the same cardinals who elected him fled Rome and chose Cardinal Robert of Geneva, who took the name Clement VII (not to be confused with Pope Clement VII who reigned from 1523 to 1534).

    He and his supporters set up camp in Avignon and Clement became the first "antipope" of the Great Schism, which would last 39 years.

    In 1409 dissident cardinals from both camps met in Pisa and ordered the popes to attend. After they failed to show up, the council elected yet another pope.

    Not until the popes of Avignon and Pisa were deposed did the church unify again under one pope, Martin V, in 1417.

    I suggest revolution friends.

    Jack

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  37. Casanova is a name we recognise from the several movies that have been made about the womaniser. We often think of the man as a reckless, wild youth, but he was actually a highly distinguished man in Europe. Casanova de Seingalt was born Giacomo Girolamo Casanova de Seingalt in April 1725. He was definitely an adventurer of Italian descent. He even wrote an autobiography of himself depicting his social life during the 18th century.

    Besides the book all about himself he wrote the Republic of Venice. He was a lawyer who spent many of his evenings with women and at the gambling tables. He actually stated in his autobiography that he set out to be a professional gambler, but soon realised that would not work. He lacked the ability to stop when his luck was unfavourable. He also had trouble stopping himself when he won as he would want to keep going and going.

    Seems to me that a lot of clergy can do with a read of his writings and take NOTE of his 'knowing his limits'.

    T

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  38. Its wrong for some die-hard catholics to assume that all catholic tradition is cast in stone. Its a known fact that the current(1983 ed.)version of the canon law was past by Pope Paul II, which has 1,752 canons while the former canon (1917) had 2,414.

    These canons were made by humans as of the times they deemed them necessary and over time, the same humans have felt it not necessary to retain some laws that were deemed archaic or simply no-longer necessary. Bishop Pat has a point, the issues need to be discussed and dealt with.

    We can not prioritise protecting the institution over church-wide injustice and hypocrisy.

    Enough is enough.

    Geff

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  39. I am currentl studying; "Medieval Society - Clergy and Society", although legally and socially the clergy was a separate order, they naturally interacted with the rest of society. Indeed, except for the monks, that was their specific charge—to act as pastors, shepherds to Christians.

    When stdying this 'history', it appears that it is also the present.

    Owen


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  40. As a D&C cleric I have to say that this issue highlighted today belongs to the older generation.

    The rest of us for the most part are gay.

    It is a simple fact - this is why our clerics in Ireland do not get so hot over a married priesthood.

    Cleric

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  41. I was eight when I was raped and sodomised by a Catholic priest. I was distressed and destroyed. It ruined my life and when I finally managed to speak out I found the church would not act. I was also sexually abused by a nun. So I found my voice and we have come to England to protest. I have come from the US to give a message that he [the Pope] needs to do more to protect children from predator priests. I go to Catholic mass once in a while. It's very traumatic for me. But I still love God.

    I do not think that these bishops have ears or the ability to listen.

    I do not know what the answer is really.

    Therese Albrecht

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    Replies
    1. Therese What part of England are you in? How are you voicing your opinions. I would love to hear more of your story if you feel it appropriate. My wife & I attend Anglican church now and are made most welcome. She sometimes tells me my mouth is to big & it will get me in troubble! maybe she is right. Anyway if you pass your details to Bishop Pat I'm sure he will pass them on. Most of all keep your head sane. As I keep on saying One Denomination does not own the rites to the Jesus Franchise-Nobody does-Sean

      Delete
  42. Best wishes to Frank the new Pope,but I wont be returning to the Church of my youth,alot of scars not me personally,but things taught and found to be wanting years down the track cant be swept under the carpet..

    Womanisers are the least of their issues me thinks...

    Oonagh

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  43. The only way to clean up the Catholic Church is to make Richard Dawkins pope

    A liberal catholic

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  44. Petrus Romanus, Ratfinkus Maximus

    Malachy’s prophecies had seemed pretty accurate over the centuries – right through til Benedict as the second last pope. And then, there was to be the final pope, “Petrus Romanus”, who was supposed to be more evil than any pope in history, who would lead the church into its own private Armageddon etc etc.

    So, when the news came through, that we did not get a Pope Peter, but a Pope Frank, I thought, “Yahoo, Malachy’s predictions went pear shaped on the final lap of St Peter’s”.

    I had 6 months of euphoria thinking that the world had at least gotten out of one set of predicted horrors. So “dere I woz, all set to whip out the rosary beads, open the champers & celebrate our deliverance from prophesied evils”, when a little thought rose in my mind:

    “What if, in Malachy’s visions / crystal ball gazing / whatever, Benedict’s resignation didn’t count / wasn’t legal – ie that in Malachy’s visions, Benedict was pope til the day he died?”

    The “goss” was that the final revelation from Fatima. the letter to the pope that was to be opened/read in 1960, predicted a paid up agent of the devil getting the job as pope. that one got buried in the Vatican archives rather quickly – no surprise!

    Assuming the Fatima letter story wasn’t a hoax (cynics might think that conjuring up a vision in a Portuguese town named after Mohamed’s daughter, might have been a PR exercise aimed at the Moslem population of the Middle East and North Africa), then the Fatima letter prediction jives with Malachy’s prophecy — of diabolical doings in the Vatican – with the worst, still yet to come.

    One of TESS’s “dirty dozen cardinals”, probably now sitting at odds of worse than 666 to 1 for the white smoke, might yet “firm” in the odds by the time Benedict dies.

    Meanwhile, does anyone know where we can pick up (at a healthy discount) some of those untraceable Vatican bearer bonds . . . .??? (Preferably convertible into real gold (no tungsten “implants” this time) before Benedict dies – just in case the Vatican Bank goes belly up, if and when Petrus Romanus does show up.


    Scared, but interested Catholic

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  45. Our Church has squandered all that goodwill and excitement and ecumenism that arose out of Vatican Two.

    Only the extreme people left who would do anything to have a cleric for dinner, they are scary people as well. I think it is too late for a married priesthood.

    John

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  46. Bishop Pat - Banco Apocalypto

    I definitely have enough material for a book or two on the Vatican Bank – but haven’t done much about putting pen to paper (or digits to keyboard) on that theme.

    I had almost (about 95% of the way) finished a book for the victims of church paedophilia – largely built up from, or expanded from, your Resign Cardinal Pell article, and the accompanying posts.

    As i neared completion on that one, I realised (inspired maybe??) to sit on it until I completed a companion volume – along the lines of (or theme of) “Rescuing Catholicism From Those Paedos in The Vatican”.

    Catholicism is probably the wrong term (Christianity might be more technically accurate), but it conveys more of the appropriate imagery than the Christianity tag.

    In brief, there were two main “flavours” of Christianity – the “mass market” product – fall over the line and make it into the heavenly hereafter – the message taught and spread s well by St Paul;

    And a more advanced flavour of Christianity, one that did not emanate from the Mediterranean or from the Vatican – but from the west coast of Britain (Glastonbury etc), the island monasteries off the Scottish coast, and in Ireland.

    That world was a world of ley lines, Celtic crosses in the mists of the ancient Isles, of St Michael’s Tor, of the Grail. Arthur, Galahad and Excalibur. Many descendants of those early Irish and Britons (as well as the Gaelic / Celtic tribes), can almost feel those days in their bones — there is some sort of race memory there, which has driven the fierce loyalty of many of the Irish (and others) to earlier forms of the Mass.

    Few in the English speaking world know it, but the Excalibur legends (the sword in the rock, Lady of the Lake etc) are much older than our lands almost. Ditto for Galahad. (not really a knight, so I skipped the “Sir” – will save the punchline/surprise for the book).

    Anyway, I think the book will make a good read when I get the thing finished. And it might help people who have been badly damaged by the Vatican’s “paedophile mafia”, sadism, inquisition, school system etc.

    I will email you all of my evidence for your info!

    Terra

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  47. If they had to name all the paedophiles and pariahs in their mangy mob, it would be bigger than Encyclopedia Britannica

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  48. isn’t it amazing that atheists know more about religions than believers!

    Joan

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  49. Dear FELLOW COMMENTATORS, just to say I am finding your comments really fascinating. I imagine I’m not the only one thinking this.

    The clerics are probably smoking and brandy time, save that they arent reading!

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    Replies
    1. Yes - we are in the library having brandy and cigars - all paid for out of our good collections this morning - the money from the turkeys who keep voting for Christmas.

      You envious begrudgers!

      Delete
    2. Any minors there Father?

      Delete
  50. The compulsive obsessive grate my nerves. I find them very controlling,evil cunning and destructive with an indirect art about them of selling all that doesn’t fit in with them, as evil,lacking, bludging. It is an ill and curse on your life to feel sorry for them. Some outside think these things have the numbers right, those closer know the hell. Programmed and can’t change. Self righteous to euphoria. Millions live lives under them sick till death or awakening. Walking on eggshells. The art of assault on others indirectly and rallying support and giving impression, never for the real reason in their twisted minds,is high.

    They wilt in tears like 4 year old babies contrary to the smug glee of ego and obnoxiousness when they destruct others.

    I clash badly with them. I have no regimentation and don’t demand it of others.It makes me sick. I like all the cracks in the walls of old timber houses that have grown and shaped by surrounds. Living with it.Let it be if it’s not hurting anyone.Fine art.
    Their regimentation is forced on others and systems to compete to survive. The heights, and many that live off others, demand it of the masses. The teaching rythm of embedding learning, healthy and profitable and humane traits and habits are fine but to not be able to take change without illness is a downfall. A downfall that effects all.

    Their numbers aren’t right,those born robotically so of my first paragraphs look like the rest,aquaintances often feel them no threat,ok, unless they become a target or live closer to them to see. Many never escape or unharmed.
    These things are in our heights and the whole profits off them less and less.They are a parasite. They shape their surroundings to suit like the autistic will pile up the boxes in a room they are left in with, around them like a fort. They shape system to suit.Even if it comes back to bite them too as so often does. But they have some other reason for it. They do it to people and learn all the right things to say and how to appear to others. Till that manner is adopted by all to survive. illness in the pure compulsive, cunning in the adopted. Oh so full of humanity and kindness and all the right words. Robotically.
    So many ,under or out of so many’s radar. Many think these “things” are smart because of their ability to reap and their common sense and doctrine of self centredness and righteousness or because of the positions they have conquered to stand in.

    Their numbers aren’t right,not in line with constructive humanity or sound futures and it spreads through system.
    I have lived under them,forced and by naivety till awakening. I hate them. A sin to all to pity them and dangerous. Whatever the pain or consequence I rid my air of them and savage them back if they try and dish it out. I have numbers for them. 12345 I caught a fish alive. All their ills are everybody and everything else’s fault not born from them or their numbers. They will change things for themselves,they can not do otherwise. A survival skill in some, sick robotics in many. A scourge for centuries on mankind from mankind.
    Adoption of St Francis into system, the ways,the paths and considerations will be great medicine and hope for what man is so far behind in and behind the eight ball. But it does not suit the types mentioned. They hate it,it is not in them to consider fitting something in for better, that has been a missing part of man’s system for far too long, maybe terminally- that is the truth, – that comes above their illness of shaping everything into a funnel into them at will and mental inclination.

    What is to come, from the reign of Francis in the air, whether sourced for institution ploy,survival or popularity,is a win for humans and the Earth and it has been born out of the church. How it got there, I give credit to IT. This seed.
    End of rant,i’ll leave you people alone.

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  51. TWO BIG CIGAR STAINED, COGNAC SMELLING FINGERS TO BUCKLEY AND YOU ALL - FUCK OFF!

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    Replies
    1. LOL - thank you for your charity Father. God is good, just leave the children alone!!

      Catholic Mother

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  52. What would the insurance company for D&C have to say about this priest???

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  53. The insurance company would insist on third party, fire, theft and minors

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  54. I was speaking to a friend who works in Church ADM, she was telling me that the Bishops now keep two files on priests, simply put, GOOD & BAD filing!!

    Tragic, we must pray for change.

    Issy

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  55. have in my possession a letter from the Sacred Congregation for the Clergy in Rome confirming that cardinal Comac Murphy O'Connor and Bishop Kieran Conry have both extended permission to one of thir clergy,Monsignor Madders,to act as a director of a property development company.
    The objective of the Monsignor's company is to buy flats cheaply in a block of mansion flats.To achieve this aim the service charges for existing residents are driven up to crippling levels so that the residens can no longer afford to live there and decided to sell.One lady resident attempted suicide because of the corrupt managing agent.
    The Monsignor told the residents' meeting that anyone who could not afford the service charges should get out of the building.
    The hierarchy know about this scam but they will not act.What utter use is it for the Pope to condemn persons whom he considers bad priests if the local bishops treat them with benign indifference?

    Its a business really.

    Favio

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  56. people have no idea how convulsing this has been : www.paddydoyle.com links to the Ryan Commission report. The need to acknowledge that persistent sexual offence against children is a crime and not wholly a 'fidelity' issue would help, non-cooperation with the authorities has hindered any attempt at understanding between advocates and those have abused and brutalised.

    Cathy

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  57. quite late: if you look at codex siniaticus (4th century) they don't even leave spaces to separate each word (a bit of a hardship for an amateur in Koine, like me).

    Simon Peter

    as the preceding verse reads (and forgive the lack of diacritical marks):

    θέλεις δέ γνώναι ώ άνθρωπε κενέ ότι ή πίστις χορίς τών έργων άργη έστιν

    "Would you recognise oh foolish man that faith without works is barren"

    gives us all the context that we need to be sure that the following verse is intended as a rhetorical question and that the anglicised word order in my gloss in my previous post is justified.

    They use it in Lisbreen!

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  58. I am afraid that the abuse of children scandals tend to blot out all other concerns. My view is that there are many bad priests out there by which I mean they have become social workers content to let their pastoral role, and that of a pastor in bringing the sacraments to the faithful, slip, relegating duties to Extraordinary Ministers and the dreaded Parish Council.
    Have you tried getting a priest to bless your home recently? Impossible. Or asked for him to visit the local secondary school to catechise? Don't be ridiculous. Or asked if they believe in transubstantiation? H'mm, maybe.
    We have (in Ireland) more apathetic and indifferent priests than we have good ones and I trust that HH's words are aimed at them also.

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  59. Must be lonely being a priest atheist??

    What you think!

    Jim

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