Monday, 11 November 2013

BELFAST GAY PRIEST - AM I VALIDLY ORDAINED?


The Comment below comes from a Belfast gay priest - Diocese of Down and Connor


"Here is a point of view that should have been considered years ago when despite denials it happened a young man enters (ME) the seminary and is a practising disordered fellow (homosexual). This is known to the vocation director & formation directors both in the Diocese and at the Seminary.



I continues along quite happily practising my passions with students & staff alike and was ordained while in a state of obvious mortal sin. Am I ordained ? I was not in a state of grace and therefore does the grace of the ordination appear in MY soul?

Is this something Pat you can answer? I think, like merits they can only be advantageous for our salvation when the Man truly repents, receives sanctifying grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, only then what my desires will come to him, namely the priesthood.

Of course I hear the D&C obscurantists saying it would be scandalous not to let me act as a priest and no one will know. I personally do not like to scandalise God everyday when I celebrate Mass everyday in Belfast.

Another question, those who have the right chromosones and have been changed to be the opposite to what they were created. Man and woman He creates them. These transgendered as we now call them in society, can they receive any sacrament validly. What will we Noel & his moralists say then if I seek direction?

D&C - NOT sure if I am valid, just like many others if the honest truth was exposed.

Can I be validly ordained as Priest when I was clearly (and others I will NOT name here) in a state of MORTAL SIN?

Priest??????"

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My Dear Brother Priest,

First of all - you are not DISORDERED.
 
You are a man and a priest who happens to be gay. Being gay is not a disorder. It is simply another way of being human and sexual. You are sexually, and I presume emotionally attracted attracted to men. If you want sexual intimacy you want and need to have it with men. You are gay for whatever reason people are gay. Anyone who thinks you are disordered is in fact disordered themselves and if they think like that they are incapable of being rational. And they cannot be truly Christian. As the Lord told us Christians are known by the love they have for each other. Homophobes do not love gay people - they resent, dislike or even hate them. Many homophobes have secret sexual problems themselves and cover those problems up by their homophobia - "Me think the man protesteth too much".
 
WERE YOU IN MORTAL SIN DURING YOUR ORDINATION?
 
Were you in a state of mortal sin when you were ordained after having sex with fellow seminarians and priests on the staff of the seminary?
 
Mortal sin is that state of DELIBERATLY and KNOWINGLY  cutting yourself off from God and His Grace. When you were having sex with other seminarians and priests did you say to yourself and to God: "Lord, I am not going to have sex with this seminarian and priest and I am doing this to hurt you and to cut myself off from you"?
 
Of course you did not do that. You had sex because you were young and passionate with a strong sex drive and you were overcome with passion and desire.
 
That makes you human. It makes you weak. It may (only God can judge) have meant you were "sinful". But it did not mean that you were in mortal sin.
 
Furthermore it did not stop you receiving the graces of Holy Orders. We Catholics have always believed that the sate of grace, or not, of the minister or recipient of a sacrament does not stop the sacrament happening.
 
Perhaps you could have been more worthily prepared and graced at the time of your ordination. But the fact that you were not did not stop you becoming a priest.
 
All recipients of Holy Order are sinners. All bishops who lay hands on ordinands are sinners too.
 
GENDER AND ORDINATION:
 
Holy Orders - being a grace - is not conferred upon the body - it has it's effects on the soul. The Roman Catholic insistence that you have to have a penis (even though you cannot use it) to receive the grace of Holy Orders is itself a disordered doctrine.
 
Both men and women have souls. That's why Holy Orders can be conferred on both men and women.
 
SEEKING DIRECTION FROM BISHOP NOEL TREANOR:

 

If I was you I'd stay well away from Noel Treanor. I have concluded that he has an austistic personality disorder and is incapable of true and compassionate communication with others.
 
I do not know what relationship he has, if any, with his own willy. Priests who know him and who have worked with him tell me is a "straight" man - whatever that means. But he is cold and uncaring and I am told hates being in Down and Connor and does not like the priests of Down and Connor because every time he has to deal with one its another "problem" for him.
 
You need to decide if you are happy in the priesthood and want to persevere in it.
 
At the very least you are capable of being honest with yourself.
 
Many gay priests are leading double or "schitzophrenic" lives - being actively gay and then preaching anti gay homilies at the weekend.
 



And of course you are not the only gay priest in Ireland. There are many hundreds if not thousands. In my experience the dioceses with the most actively gay priests are Dublin, Down & Connor, Ferns and Cloyne.
 
I wish you well.
 
Bishop Pat Buckley
11.11.13
 
 
 
 

 

11 comments:

  1. Dear D and C Priest You have been given good advice from Bishop Buckley,the validity of your ordination was and never will be in question,your sexualty is irrelevant,what is relevant is that you ARE a priest who has been called to bring the Gospels of Jesus to life.Go find the lost sheep.Mike

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  2. I am a D&C priest also who is actively gay. I have no conscience problem whatsoever. I keep my public life and my private life as separate entities. Get over your guilt trip.

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  3. I agree with above. Get over your guilt trip - and stop giving BUCKLEY information.

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  4. Fex sake! State of Grace vs State of Mortal Sin. These are not physical places and as you say Pat being gay is not a contamination. I'm more concerned about the boyos who say get over your guilt trip and stop giving Buckley information. The attitude smells of a Nazi Commander speaking to his underlings. As Hamlet might say There is something rotten in the state of D & C. I am concerned for the priest who contacted you. He deserves more than being shit upon from a great height. I would urge him to speak to you face to face. What then about the female partners of priests those who are known & those in the land of nudge and wink. I would urge these ladies to stand up and be counted. I would even be prepared to try and coordinate such a move if folk wished, The big sin of modern Ireland is the sin of ignore and cover up-Sean

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  5. Thank you for your answer Pat. You honesty and truthfulness in matters not so easy to discuss is refreshing and life changing.

    As you can see from the responses above - this is the 'life situation' many of us in D&C face. There is NO Christian understanding, love or desire to show pastoral care to clergy who attempt to follow their conscience. We are firmly told to get back into our boxes, crawl back under our rocks and 'function' away!!

    As for BUCKLEY, I am not giving information, I am simply asking and seeking some advice! Advice that I could NOT seek internally and well you know it!!

    So BROTHER D&C tell me, what should I do? Should I ignore my reality and the reality of those I have been involved with and continue to 'function' in my double life!

    Will we ever get a chance to be real? I think of poor Bishop Dallat and his lifetime of lovely partnership, why should it not be acknowledged as a beautiful and good thing.

    Priest - Belfast.

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    1. Priest-Belfast. Dont let the buggers get u down. Living a double life nearly destroyed me. Get to a place of safety in mind & body. Turn ur arse towards the bastards (no pun intended) and walk. Leave the shit behind. Sean

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    2. Victorian principles and attitudes dont work anymore-Sean

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  6. I have never in my life heard an 'anti-gay' sermon ever at Mass. Buckley seems to think the priests of this diocese are up every Sunday preaching about sex!

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    1. What is the function of a Sermon at Mass? Is it a soap box for frustrated moralists or an opportunity to explore the wonders of revealed in Scripture. What do priests talk about these days and how does it connect to the rest of the Mass?-Sean




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  7. BUCKLEY DOES NOT THINK THE PRIESTS OF D&C PREACH ABOUT SEX EVERY SUNDAY.

    BUT BUCKLEY KNOWS THAT MANY PRIESTS IN D&C ARE HAVING GAY SEX EVERY WEEK>

    BUCKLEY ALSO KNOWS THAT BISHOP NULTY OF KILDARE HAS ANNOUNCED THAT THE IRISH CATHOLIC BISHOPS WILL BE OPPOSING SAME SEX MARRIAGE LAWS IN THE REPUBLIC>

    THEN EVERY PRIEST IN IRELAND WILL BE PREACHING ABOUT GAR SEX AND MARRIAGE SUNDAY>

    GET REAL - STOP MAKING EXCUSES

    Bishop Pat

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    1. I have no idea who is feeding you info, Pat Buckley, but what you are saying about Bishop Treanor is totally false. He is a good bishop and we are glad to have him. He is very wise to have no dealings whatsoever with YOU! D&C PP

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