Saturday, 9 November 2013

ORDINATION / CONSECRATION CERTIFICATES WRITTEN AND ISSUED BY ARCHBISHOP THUC

 
 

AT PALMAR DE TROYA

 
ARCHBISHOP THUC

"I Peter Martin Ngo-Dinh Thuc, titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia certify that, on the first day of January 1976, I conferred the tonsure and minor orders, as well as the major orders (namely subdiaconate, diaconate and priesthood) on the following persons:

Clemente Dominguez y Gomez, born in Seville, National Identity Number 28279369,

Emmanuel Alonso Corral, born in Cabeza de Buey (Badajoz), National Indentity Number 1702964,

Ludovic Henry Moulins, citizen of France, residing in Seville, recorded in the French Consulate General in Seville under No 50/74,

Francil Coll, citizen of Ireland, with the document known as "passport" no, F19094, residing in Seville.

I also certify that on the 11th day of Janyary AD 1976, I conferred the Episcopal Order in Palmar de Troya on the following priests:

Reverend Clemente Dominguez y Gomez

Bishop Gomez


Reverend Emmanuel Alonso Corral

Reverend Camilo Estevez Puga, born in Maside (Orense) D.N.I. No. D 34576182 Residing in Seville.

Reverend Michael Thomas Donnelly, citizen of Ireland, "passpot" No. D 13296. Residing in Seville.

Reverend Raymond Bernard Sandler, citizen of the United States of America, "passport" No. Z22588066

I further certify that these Bishops and Priests pertain to the Order of the Carmelites of the Holy Face, founded in Seville on 23rd December 1975.

The Mother House of this Order is at No. 20, Call Redes in Seville. The Founder and Father General is His Excellency Clemente Dominguez y Gomez, Bishop.

With my own hand and pen I sign this document in order to procure all effects ecclesiastical and civil.

Given with my seal,

Twelfy day of January in the year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred and seventy six

Signed + Peter Martin Ngi-dinh Thuc

Archbishop of Bulla Regia.  

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On the 18th October 1981 Archbishop Thuc also consecrated Father Moisi Carmona Rivera a bishop in France.

 

Below is Archbishop Thuc's handwritten certificate to Father Rivera



 
 
 
BISHOP CIARAN BROADBERY
 
On 9th January 1977 - year after he had been consecrated a bishop by Archbishop Thuc, Bishop Gomez ordained CIARAN BROADBERY a priest.
 
 
On 13th February 1977 CIARAN BROADBERY was consecrated a bishop by Bishop Gomez.

 
BISHOP BROADBERY
 
So the direct line is:
 
BISHOP COX

 
THUC - GOMEZ - BROADBERY - COX - BUCKLEY
 
 
BISHOP PAT BUCKLEY

 
 
 



15 comments:

  1. The swell being served up by some anti-Thuc forces is designed to blow smoke in the face of Catholic truth in order to make it appear as though only one group of Catholic bishops and priests is valid. The Romans and those THEY RECOGNISE ONLY!

    It should be very revealing, as well as understandably quite shocking, for many traditional Catholics to realise that they have been deceived and misled regarding the true facts of the Thuc issue by certain highly-placed anti-Thuc agitators.

    Bishop Broadberry seems to express the conviction that none of the questioning of the legitimate status of Thuc-line bishops and priests would ever have happened if the whole dispute had not been created by anti-Thuc agitators among the clergy, who then spread their false story among their parishioners by way of their anti-Thuc writings and actions.

    Appropriately enough, you conclude your comments by saying that the priests who stirred up all the controversy about the Thuc consecrations of bishops “really shot themselves in the foot.”

    If any of the anti-Thuc bishops would realise how much they have discredited themselves by misinforming and misleading their unsuspecting followers!

    Archbishop Thuc - God Bless you and rest in peace.

    True Catholic USA

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  2. The Thuc issue ceased to be objectively controversial when all the facts became known and understood and then accepted by those of good will.

    Anne

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  3. The first fact that we need to recognize and understand clearly in regard to the Thuc issue is the power of consecrating bishops, as well as of ordaining priests, which Archbishop Thuc possessed as a Catholic bishop, a power which he never lost, nor could lose, neither on account of signing the questionable Vatican II documents, nor for at first consecrating unworthy men as bishops. No bishop can lose his power of consecrating bishops for any kind of reason, such as, for example, losing the faith or joining the freemasons or other anti-Catholic subversives.

    This should be no surprise for properly instructed traditional Catholics who learned probably already in their catechism days, that a man ordained as a Catholic priest becomes a priest forever. The pertinent Scriptural passage about the eternal priesthood that true Catholic should have no trouble remembering is the well-known; “Thou art a priest forever, according to the order of Melchisedech” (Psalm 109,5).

    In dealing with the Catholic priesthood, we are dealing with something divinely established, not with something established by man. The everlasting power given to priests is given to them by God, not by man. The indelible mark, or character, of the priesthood, received at ordination, belongs to the Catholic priest by the will of God, not by the will of man, and it belongs to the priest forever. Just as the indelible mark received at Baptism belongs to the Baptized Catholic forever.

    We are speaking here of matters clearly pertaining to the Catholic Faith and which cannot be doubted, nor questioned, nor denied without the risk of incurring the guilt of heresy.

    Paul

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  4. Those traditional Catholics who have at their disposal some reliable traditional Catholic religion book, or maybe an advanced Catholic catechism, or even a reliable theology book, would do well to turn to the pages that deal with the sacrament of Holy orders and re-educate themselves as to the nature and powers of the Catholic priesthood.

    Just to take one example of a good traditional advanced catechism, we can recommend Deharbe’s Catechism, first published in German long ago by Father Joseph Deharbe, S. J., and then translated into English early in the 20th Century.

    The fortunate thing about the English edition of Deharbe’s Catechism is that it was reissued in 1998 by Omni-Christian Book Club of America (P/O/ Box 900566, Palmdale California 93590-0566 – Phone (661) 274-2240).

    On page 303 of the 1998 edition of Deharbe’s Catechism, the question is asked: “Can a Priest be deprived of his ordination?” The correct answer given is this: “No, he can as little be deprived of Ordination as of Baptism, because it imprints an indelible character upon the soul.”

    And then Father Deharbe continues: “A Priest therefore, or a Bishop, cannot be deprived of the powers which he received in his Ordination or Consecration, to change bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, and to offer up the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, to administer Confirmation, Extreme Unction, and Holy Orders.”

    Paul

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  5. Knowing the everlasting nature and power of the Priesthood, no genuine Catholic of good will could honestly persist in holding that Archbishop Thuc’s Consecrations of Bishops were doubtful, or even outright invalid. Because the power of the fullness of the Priesthood is everlasting, there can be no argument, no questioning, no controversy about the undoubted validity of the Thuc consecrations of Bishops.

    You would think that the anti-Thuc militants saw that they had no other choice but to go silent and stop their anti-Thuc campaign. Yet, believe it or not, they did not stop trying to discredit Archbishop Thuc and the Thuc-line Bishops and Priests. Being the “geniuses” that they are, they had a dream. The dreamt that they could finish off the Archbishop by spreading around the made-up story that he was feeble-minded and therefore incapable of using his power of Consecrating Bishops validly.

    But that didn’t work. Thinking Catholics could at once object that neither Bishop Guerard des Lauriers, nor Bishop Carmona, nor Bishop Zamora complained that Archbishop Thuc was feeble-minded when he consecrated them. They saw that the Archbishop what the Pontifical Ritual required as to matter and form and intention. When the Consecration ceremonies were completed, these three men knew that they were validly consecrated Catholic Bishops. So in due time they proceeded to do what Catholic Bishops are empowered to do. That is, they consecrated other Bishops, and it was from them that the American line of Thuc Bishops developed.

    Where were the anti-Thuc dreamers when Archbishop Thuc was consecrating Bishops Guerard and Carmona and Zamora? They were in faraway anti-Thuc dreamland. That’s where they were.

    While anti-Thuc agitators are unable honestly to deny the validity of the Thuc consecrations of Bishops, they imagine they have a legitimate argument against the Archbishop when they declare that his consecrations were unlawful, or illicit, since he had no papal mandate or permit to consecrate Bishops.

    Theologian

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  6. I have read many things concerning Thuc Line Bishops. What exactly is a Thuc Line Bishop?

    New Reader

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  7. Where did Christ consecrate bishops for His Church? Maybe not hotel rooms, but not in formal churches either.

    Fra

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  8. All Thuc line Bishops are valid. Probably more valid than others !

    Gary

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  9. Are there also Thuc line Priests?

    Mary

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  10. Archbishop Pierre Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc

    "THE THUC LINE"

    In a letter to the Sacerdotal Fraternity of Monseignor Pierre-Martin Ngo Dinh Thuc (Chaillac, France), dated May 3, 1994, Cardinal Cassidy of the Pontifical Council for the Unity of Christians wrote the following significant words:

    "'the situation of the members of this fraternity is an internal affair to the Catholic Church. The fraternity is not like another Church or ecclesiastical community in the meaning the this 'dicastery'(?), but an internal affair of the Catholic Church.'
    Of course, the Mass and Sacraments administered by the priests of the Fraternity are valid. The Bishops are validly ordained -- although non licitly (without pontifical mandate). What is asked is the reconciliation with the Catholic Church and this is something greatly desired by the Bishop of Rome. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be any sign of this being realized in the near future ..." (Excerpt of the letter of Cardinal Edward Cassidy, No. 1336/94)

    This quotation from Cardinal Cassidy is quite accurate. The important point is as the Cardinal rightly points out that -- the "Thuc Line" is an internal affair of the Catholic Church. Thus it is not a sect. We are advised that this same theme was re-iterated by Cardinal Antonelli in Libreville, Gabon on May 22, 1996; and by Cardinal Jerome Hamer on May 26, 1996.

    Researcher

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  11. Today, many of the Thuc Line Bishops are sedevacantist -- ie, they do not acknowledge Francs I as the Vicar of Christ. However, not all -- it must be clear -- that Bishop Athanasius Maria Seiwart-Fleige and Bishop Bartholomew Schneider fully accept and profess their loyalty and acceptance of Frances I as the Vicar of Christ.

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  12. There is a bit out there on Bishop Thuc. While he got involved(albeit briefly) with questionable, unqualified men that he ordained and consecrated, perhaps most notably those in Palmar de Troya, Spain, he also consecrated very worthy priests as Bishops, namely Bishop Guerard Des Laurier, O.P. and Bishops Carmona and Zamona from Mexico, all in 1981. He shortly there after moved to the US and stayed with Franciscans in the Rochester, NY area. He was taken away by some Vietnamese who were aquainted with him and ended up dying in Carthage, Missouri in December, 1984 at the former Seminary of the Oblates of Mary Immaculate.
    I recommend that you take a look at http://www.thucbishops.com It is a recent study on the validity of the Thuc line of Bishops, not withstanding that he dealt with some men that were certainly not worthy. It is online for free and easy to follow

    Joe

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  13. A number of articles on this issue are posted on our site:

    Consecration Certificate Written in Abp. Thuc's Own Hand
    Archbishop P.M. Ngo-dinh-Thuc
    Facsimile and translation of Latin text written by Abp. Thuc on Oct. 18, 1981, the day after he consecrated Bp. Moises Carmona, from whom Bp. Dolan derives his episcopal orders.
    http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=52&catname=13

    The Validity of the Thuc Consecrations
    Rev. Anthony Cekada
    Examination of 1981 episcopal consecrations of three traditionalist priests by Abp. P.M. Ngo-dinh-Thuc, retired Archbishop of Hué, Vietnam. (Sacerdotium 3, Spring 1992)
    http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=60&catname=13

    Bp. Williamson on the Validity of Bp. Dolan's Consecration
    Most Rev. Richard Williamson
    Facsimile and transcript of an October 21, 1993 letter. Bp. Richard N. Williamson, the Rector of the Society of St. Pius X's U.S. seminary, responds to an inquiry about Bp. Dolan's consecration and about Fr. Cekada's study, 'The Validity of the Thuc Consecrations.'
    http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=51&catname=13

    Abp. Thuc: A Brief Defense
    Most. Rev. Daniel L. Dolan
    Refutation of unfounded accusations against the validity of the episcopal consecrations conferred by Abp. P.M. Ngo-dinh-Thuc. Excerpt from a conference delivered in France in October, 1999.
    http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=58&catname=13

    Pius XII, Excommunication and Traditional Catholic Bishops
    Rev. Anthony Cekada
    It is erroneous to maintain that a 1951 decree and a 1958 encyclical of Pius XII excommunicating bishops in Communist China would apply to traditional Catholic bishops of our own time. Introductory Note. Text of Decree and Encyclical.
    http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=59&catname=13

    The Great Excommunicator
    Rev. Anthony Cekada
    Bp. Clarence Kelly's communion rules divide traditional Catholic families and violate canon law. (Pamphlet, October 2002)
    See section headed "Invalid Bishops?"
    http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=54&catname=14

    Fr Cekada

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  14. Did he cover for child rape and multiple abuse? Did he move them about, hide files and give them money and means to continue in term EVIL ways? Did he tell multiple lies about the facts of the Church for the 'good' name of the Church? Did he spend millions on a palace?

    No he was lead by Gospel values - HE wil do me.

    Lay Catholic.

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  15. 05/04/1938 Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin (b. in 1897; d. in 1984).
    Ordained a Roman Catholic priest on 10/20/1925 at xxxxx, Viet Nam, by Msgr. xxxxx, Bishop of xxxxx.
    Consecrated a Roman Catholic bishop on 05/04/1938 at Hué, Viet Nam, by the Apostolic Delegate in Indochina, Msgr. Antonin Drapier, O.P., Titular Archbishop of Neocaesarea in Pontus, assisted by Msgr. Isidore Dumortier, M.E.P., Titular Bishop of Lipara, and by Msgr. Dominique Ngo Ngoc Can Titular, Titular Bishop of Zenobias.
    Msgr. Ngo was Titular Bishop of Saesina, 1938-60, Archbishop of Hué, Viet Nam, 1960-68, and Titular Archbishop of Bulla Regia, 1968-1984.

    An excellent man of conscience and archbishop.

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