Friday, 13 June 2014

IS JESUS ONE OF MANY "GODS"

IS JESUS JUST ONE OF MANY "GODS"
A friend and Blog reader has sent me the above picture which suggests that Jesus was a "myth" and just one of many gods about whom the same or similiar stories were told.

As someone struggling with many issues concerning his Christian faith my friend was somewhat unsettled about this image.

The image certainly gives proponents of the Jesus myth some ammunition - but it does not dent my own Christian faith ONE LITTLE BIT.

I firmly believe that Jesus is God and the Son of God.

I do not believe this because of anything anyone has ever taught me. Nor do I believe it because of any catechism, theology book, theologian or "god spot" in my brain. 

Nor do I believe it because of the brainwashing I received as I went through 14 years of Catholic education or 6 years in the seminary studying philosophy and theology.

I BELIEVE IN JESUS AS GOD AND THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE I HAVE ENCOUNTERED HIM AND EXPERIENCED HIM IN MY OWN LIFE.

I have experienced the intense presence of Jesus on perhaps a dozen occasions in my 62 years of life. I would divide those experience into 4 catagories:

1. Messages I received.
2. Healings I have been part of.
3. Moments of "transportation".
4. Visitation experiences.

MESSAGES:

I have wanted to be a priest from the age of 4. I could not wait to get to the seminary and entered seminary at 18 and was ordained at 24.

I entered Holy Cross Seminary, Dubkin on the 28th September 1970. While I was waiting to go to the seminary that day I had a panic attack - a bad case of pre entering nerves. I decided to go to the parish church to ask God for reassurance and help. Before entering the church I saw a card lying in a puddle of water and picked it up. It read: "GO YOU ALSO INTO THE VINEYARD" (Matthew 20:7). That was the message I needed to reassure me. I was immediately filled with a great peace. I have treasured that card for 44 years and look at it daily in my prayer book.

HEALINGS:

My mother was critically ill in hospital in 2003. I went to the hospital shop to get her mineral water. As I left the shop I saw a young woman crying with a mobile telephone to her ear. I asked her was she ok. She told me that her two year old baby was dying in the children's ward and she was trying to get a priest but couldn't. She saw I was a priest and I went with her to the baby's bedside. The whole family was in the little room. The baby was dying of a massive clot in the brain. I knelt beside the baby - put my bishops crucifix on its head and prayed like never before. I said to God: "Lord I have lived for over 50 years. This little baby is only beginning life. Take the clot of the baby's brain and put it in my brain". After a moment I felt my hands burning with a great heat. The staff came and took the baby to intensive care to help it die without pain. I asked the nother to let me know how everything went.

At midnight the mother rang me. When they got to intensive care the little child sat up in the bed and drank some milk. It then ate a little piece of toast. Later the doctors took the child for a scan. There was no clot left in the child's head. It made a complete recovery.

I do not attribute this healing to myself in any way. It was God who healed the baby in answer to the prayers of a sinner priest. 

I have had 3 similiar experiences in my priestly life of 38 years. 

MOMENTS OF TRANSPORTION:

From 1978 to 1983 I was a curate in St Peter's Cathedral on the Belfast Falls Road. For reasons I have explained in previous Blogs I was deeply resented by two other priests who lived with me who are both now deceased and hopefully having met the Lord are in Heaven. On one occasion of of those priests gave me a severe physical beating in the presbytery dining room.

To keep sane I used to spent from 5pm until 6 pm every day praying in the cathedral - asking for the grace to be able to cope.

On one of those days I was very desolate and having prayed for an hour felt the astounding ABSENSE of God. I fely so sickened by his absence that I wanted to vomit.

I left the cathedral to go and play squash with one of the young women who worked in our parish youth club.

After the game of squash I was alone in the male dressing room having a shower. All of a sudden the scene around me changed and I seemed to be somewhere else. I heard a voice speak - not into my ears - but into me head. It said: "I am not a tap. You cannot turn me on and off when you feel like it. I will come to you in my own time and in a place of my own choosing.  I am with you now and just as the water is gushing all over you so is my grace and strength and it is falling from your hands and touching others".

Suddenly I found myself alone again but with a heart bursting with peace and joy and happiness. I knew I had been touched by God. I also knew that God's touch comes when and where he wants. Not always in churches and cathedrals. It can happen in a sports centre in a shower cubicle.

I have been very fortunate to have a small number of these experiences in my life.

VISITATIONS:

My mother Jo died in 2006. I was her first born of 17 children. She lived with me for the last 16 years of her life. We were very close. But I am not a mammy's boy. We often prayed together. We laughed a lot together.

She died of a stroke that destroyed her abaility to swallow. On her death bed she looked at me and said: "I am very lucky". I found this hard to understand what she meant given the terrible state she was in and I asked her what she meant. She said: "I have been so lucky - God gave me you". I went outside and cried like a baby.

On the first anniversary of her death - 3rd August 2007 I was having dinner and a drink in my kitchen with 4 friends who had never met my mother. It was 10.40 pm and the 4 friends were musicians and they were playing music and singing. Suddenly one of the friends, pointing to the window said: "Pat, there is a woman at the door looking for you". I looked out the window and the security light had come on and I saw my mother standing there and she smiled and waved. All 5 of us saw her. We rushed to the soor and saw her standing beneath a tree in the garden. She disappeared.

But the same scenario happened again 40 minutes later at 11.20 pm. We all saw her again. Again she smiled and waved.

I have never seen her since. But I was comforted to have seen her. She was dressed exactly as she looks in the picture below.

Again I have been fortunate enough to have had a very small number of "spiritual" experiences in my life.

CONCLUSION:

If you want me to ask me to believe that Jesus Christ is a myth you will also have to ask me to deny that Barack Obama is the president of the USA. You will have to ask me to believe that the moon is made of cheese. You will have to ask me to believe that the earth is flat. You will have to ask me to believe Elvis Presley is still alive. You will have to ask me to believe that Scotland in in Australia.

SEEING IS BELIEVING. I have "seen" the reality of Jesus as God and as Son of God. I have experienced him personally and really in my own life experiences.

You can suggest what you like about HORUS, ATTIS, MITHRA, KRISHNA and DIONYSUS.

If I experienced them the way I have experienced Jesus of Nazareth I will believe in them too. But I have not.

I have no desire whatsoever to impose my religious faith on anyone else in the world.

I have the greatest of admiration for agnostics and atheists who hold their views with integrity and sincerity. In fact I have more respect for people like that than I have for fundamentialist Christians, Muslims of Jews.

Anyone who knows the real Jesus could never be a fundamentalist and could never be arrogant or judgemental.

Many of the people who go to churches, synagogues and temples have RELIGION but they do not have an authentic SPIRITUALITY.

"GOD WANTS SPIRITUAL FRUITS - NOT RELIGIOUS NUTS" !

Organised religion is most often a denial of true spirituality. Organised religion is kept going by people who cannot think for themselves and who are brainwashed into following some pope, imman, rabbi or pastor.

Jesus of Nazareth was fully human, fully God, anti-establishment, challenging, tolerant, liberal and disturbing.

As the great Gandhi said: "I ADMIRE YOUR CHRIST - BUT NOT YOUR CHRISTIANS" !

+Pat Buckley
13.6.2014







24 comments:

  1. I may be wrong, but from what I remember, nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ever say to build churches, he also never said to create a religion called Christianity!

    All he said was "I am the way the truth and the life"
    He also said "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

    We are the temples of god, not the churches!

    With that said, why is it necessary to go to church? Christianity has so many denominations which were made by man, how are people ever supposed to know the right one?. Even the churches were built by men!! Give answers please, I'm willing to read quotes from the bible if you have any. Thanks

    Sue

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  2. Jesus didn't require participation in organized religion. we are suppose to have a personal relationship with him. If anything, I would say Jesus would be against organized religion. Remember, by their fruits ye shall know them. If they do good things, they are a good church, if they do less than good things, they aren't a good church. Nobody has the correct church, they are all of men, you're correct. And many churches are about money; putting cash in the collection plate, or collecting tithes. Jesus never got paid to administer to the people, and neither did his apostles.

    Yesse

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  3. Jesus talked over and over again about establishing the Kingdom of God, which is a spiritual Kingdom rather than a physical one. But he also renamed his disciple, Simon. Jesus gave him the new name Peter, which means "rock". "You are the rock upon which I will build my church."

    As for how this church was to be established, Jesus did not specify. He set rules for conduct and pointed out the flaws in certain sects of Judaism.

    I can only tell you that as a Quaker, I feel as though Quakerism speaks to me most powerfully. Churches, meetings, gatherings, or however one defines it will always be imperfect because people are imperfect, but try not to come down so harshly on them. We're not perfect and we never will be, but we can still be in community with each other as a fellowship of believers.

    Baker

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  4. I believe in something greater than myself, but I have to point something out, does no one find it odd that Muhammad wrote his teachings, as did Buddha(I only chose these two because they are part of the 4 super powers of religion), but Jesus never wrote ANYTHING, it was his apostles who did, IE it was all hear say and open to interpretation from the ones doing the writing. You have many chapters in the bible each named after an apostle, I can honestly say I have never seen one that said "Jesus", or did I miss something? Don't get me wrong I do believe in God by whatever name you choose to call him, but I also believe he is in all things so I need no church, synagogue, temple, or mosque to find him. I just need to open my eyes and see the proof of Him everyday till my time comes. Oh one more thing, if someone popped up claiming to be The Son, we would to exactly what they did back then, call him crazy or worse, but there will always be those who follow. So how can you say you believe in The Son, when you would not believe him if he came up and stood right in your face and said so?

    Bill

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  5. Fact of life. "The Kingdom of God is within you". Jesus said this several time in the gospels, including the Gospel of Thomas, where he emphasizes it even more strongly than in the "canonical" gospels. So, why do we need churches? Because we are saved in community. We cannot be part of the "kingdom of god" all by ourselves, we need to share that.
    I'm agnostic, but I go to a christian church. They are my "family", have been for some years now. They do a lot of community outreach, try to live up to Matthew 25:31-46 (the most important verses in the NT). And I try to work within that outreach. (And they accept that I do not do dogma, they really don't care.)
    Humans are pack animals. We evolved that way for sheer survival and it is still part of us. A church is our "pack", if you will, and it is the place where we support each other's spirituality.
    Blessings on your Journey!

    Bangor Heretic

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  6. Jesus prayed to his Father, that we may all be One. He visualized Christianity being Judaism.
    After the Romans tore down the Jewish Temple, the Jews blamed Christians for the uprising.
    So Christians were cast out of synagogues & became a separate religion themselves.
    They used to go to Temple or Synagogue, then meet in each others homes.
    But when they were no longer welcome & too numerous, they had to meet secretly.
    Once the Roman emperor finally accepted Christianity, he gave them buildings to meet.
    As Christianity developed & grew, they started building their own places to meet.
    It is fundamental to Christianity that we continue Jesus pattern of building community.
    Each denomination, which has broken away for political reasons, still builds community

    Robert - Catholic and proud

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  7. Its a good thing to fellowship with those of like faith, but i agree in a sense, its way to generic these days, just plop it in the bucket to receive your blessing from heaven *puke* ..

    Believer

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  8. ok I got a question for you are you a Christian or just another annoying athiest?
    Because honestly if you're athiest this is what I would excpect,but for a Christian wow you did not just disrespect the ways of Christianity,if you're a true Christian,and true child of God you would love church,and you would love going to a place to worship the Lord................... *silence*

    Jenny

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  9. The True Founder of Christianity is PAUL NOT JESUS PBUH..

    Jesus Christ Never said. He never heard a Word Christian in his life,.. He spoke Hebrew.. He was a Jew. If any one can point out that Jesus himself said that he died for his sins in complete BIBLE and said he is God Unequivocas statement .. I'll get more converts and convert...


    As Allah(GOD) SWT says in Quran:-

    Say(O Muhammed): "IF ((Allah)) MOST GRACIOUS HAD a SON, I WOULD BE the FIRST TO WORSHIP."
    82 Glory to the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne (of Authority)! (He is free) from the things they attribute (to him)!
    ( سورة الزخرف , Az-Zukhruf, Chapter #43, Verse #81-82)

    Source(s):

    AL QURAN

    Duddy

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  10. It has been proven throughout history that in order to gain converts, an up-and-coming religion would use the local religion. The newbies would usurp the stories and myths of the would-be converts to gain trust and acceptance.

    Case in point - both Christmas and Easter are almost exact duplicates of the Pagan holidays of Yule and Ostara. Ever wonder what eggs and bunnies have to do with Easter? Look at the Spring Equinox of Ostara. Same hing goes for the Christmas tree (aka Yule tree). Ever wonder why holly is a part of Christmas? Because it was part of Yule long before Christianity came around.

    The story of St. Patrick driving the snakes from Ireland??? It was actually St. Patrick driving the Pagans from Ireland.

    People just need to open their eyes and see that questions and reason are good things.

    BTW, Mithras is almost identical to the myth of Christ. And just so you know, Christ is a title, not a name. He should be referred to as Yeshua, the Christ. And every civilizations explanation of how things happen or why things are the way they are is called mythology. Thus, the Bible is nothing but Christian mythology.


    Paddy

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  11. The Mithras/Christ hypotheses never really existed and biased on a comment by Justin Martyr in the 2nd century that Ernest Renan built upon. Most classical historical scholars and world religions academics reject it.

    Mithras is born from a rock, a fully developed human being and didn't have a virgin birth.
    Since Mithras was a warrior cult it had no public face (unlike other Roman Cults) so any celebration of the Gods birth was kept among its members so its impossible really to say if the 25 December was used, the only evidence comes from a 4th century illuminated manuscript. At no point in the Mithras religion was an iconography of death on a cross or re-birth (Mithras was the slaying of a bull) used.

    As to Yulu, each culture in the northern hemisphere has some celebration around the solstice and Christmas has little connection to Yulu (a Norse celebration) and lot to Sol Invictus. Holly was letter added not by Early Christians but by post-Rome celebrators in North West Europe and spread from there.

    Irish Thinker

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  12. Let's see here.....

    1. Christ's birth, death and resurrection were all documented by eyewitness observers- You ever read the first four books of the New Testament?

    2. I think it's the atheists and evolutionists that are overlooking facts to make up their own stories.

    A- How did the 'Big Bang' happen when matter can't be created or destroyed?

    B-The seawater that supposedly contains all of the stuff needed to create 'simple' life also contains enough salt to kill that life in less than a millionth of a second. This means, in simpler language, that there would have to be at least two of these 'simple lifeforms' developed at exactly the same time in close proximity to each other, and they would have to be able to reproduce almost instantly before dieing. Another thing to add to this is that the chance of even one of these 'life forms' being created is extremely small. I don't know the exact number, but it's somewhere in the area of 10^140000 (a really tiny number). and if you think that these 'simple organisms' developed on land, well, go ahead and dream. There is nowhere near the amount of nutrients in the right concentrations to birth life. It's been tried in controlled labs and all they got was one kind of amino acid that lasted for less than a quarter second. And that's just one of the 20-some that you need to have life.

    C-These supposedly 'simple' organisms that are found in lower strata levels are actually really complicated. Amoebas have 200 times the DNA you do! So you think you evolved from them? With that knowledge, it would be easier to explain that we evolved from them. but wait, we're in higher strata than them, so we are supposedly 'more complicated organisms'.

    D-Why do these strata even show up? If the earth is made from a chunk of 'stuff' flung out from a nearby star, with 'millions of years' of space dust constantly being lain down, why are there layers? Wouldn't the original chunk from the star have been mostly the same kind of materials? And if not, it wouldn't have been all neatly set up in layers like it is now. And the space dust? If it has been constantly lain down since Earth was supposedly flung out from a star, why are there even distinct layers? Wouldn't it all kinda gradually shade from one color/material to another? With evolution there shouldn't even be strata!

    E-Oh, and we're supposedly descendants from monkeys, or starfish, or whatever the current theory is now. I know for sure that I'm not! How in the world did everything evolve from amoebas or whatever was supposedly the first organism on Earth anyway? Don't say natural selection or survival of the fittest unless you've actually seen an amoeba grow legs or wings or teeth just so that it can survive. These things that supposedly grew up out of seawater would've had it made! No predators, no dangers- why would they have had to adapt to their environment to survive?

    Look, if you still believe in the theory that says 'In the beginning, there was nothing and that nothing turned into everything', well, I think we should build a mental hospital just for you. There's enough evidence here to drown in, but you don't accept it.

    Caty

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  13. As Kurt Godel proved, naive logic is axiomatic. This means logic alone is insufficient in deriving the truth. Therefore, any argument for (or against) a belief must be supported by empirical evidence.

    Before I go any further, I will not tolerate any of this Post Modern "truth is subjective" crap. That is a conflation. Reality can be imagined to operate on three (3) levels. The first level is fundamental reality, which exists independently of an observer. No, modern quantum physicists does not postulate that consciousness is intrinsic to reality. It only appeared to be so to early physicists because conscious observation decomposes a single configuration state into several configuration states. But conscious observation was discovered to be only one of many means of decomposition, proving that interpretation false. However, mystics and gurus still cling to this fallacy out of motivated reasoning and confirmation bias. The second level is "subjective" reality, which emerges from the domain of fundamental reality. Subjective reality is self-explanatory. The third level is "objective" reality. It constitutes what our subjective experiences seemingly have in common, since fundamental reality follows patterns. Objective reality emerges from the domain of subjective reality. The third and second levels exist because our brains attempt to model fundamental reality based on evidence of patterns, since accurate models of reality confer survival value. "Truth" is simply a measure of how accurately these models describe fundamental reality. Truth is not subjective; it is our beliefs about the truth which are subjective. This idea is embodied in the phrase "The map is not the territory."

    Rebuttal:

    1. The 4 Gospels were determined by most historians to not have likely been written by eye witnesses. It is more likely they were written generations after Jesus's death. I'm pretty sure Luke explicitly states in a preface that it's not first hand account. As for the other 3 Gospels, no one to my knowledge can say either way definitively, however. The history is actually pretty murky. Yes, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls. We also have "Yeshu Ha Notzri" from the Torah. On top of that, there's the 17 non-canonical "Gnostic" Gospels, e.g. the Gospel of Thomas. It confuses things even more. So for now, the topic is moot (which means "open to interpretation", not "irrelevant").

    2. Most (if not all) of your arguments are Straw Man Fallacies. This means you share your misguided understanding of your opponent's argument and say "Doesn't that sound ridiculous?" And then proceed to knock it down as easily as a straw man. Allow me to clarify...

    Red

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  14. My name is Mike, and I practice 'Mikism'... a system comprised of my own beliefs. I will NEVER allow someone to supplant my beliefs with their own. Those that allow others to dictate a system of beliefs to them are ignorant, weak or lazy.

    The Ten "Commandments" of 'Mikism'...

    1) - I will NEVER accept a popular or convenient belief... simply because it is popular or convenient.

    2) - I will carefully weigh the validity of every supposition, fact, or explanation presented to me.

    3) - I will ALWAYS recognize and respect the VAST chasm between theory and proof.

    4) - All of human history teaches us that 'unknown' does NOT mean 'unknowable'.

    5) - If not for those who questioned the status quo, mankind would still be huddled in caves worshiping rocks, trees and weather.

    6) - The fact that I, as a thinking being, can cause or alter events... is NOT proof that all events are therefore caused by thinking beings.

    7) - Attribution of the unknown to deities or supernatural events... is the definition of laziness.

    8) - I will always seek logical and provable answers to life's questions.

    9) - I fully accept that many of my questions will not be answered in my lifetime.

    10) - I shall die knowing that my time and intellect were not wasted on the primitive worship of natural phenomena.

    Mike

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  15. The documented accounts of Jesus and what he did can be traced back to as soon as ten even four years after his death. In several of the surrounding reagions. Even writings of Alexander the great only date to 400 years after his death. Yet we teach of his life as historical fact. We know that Jesus did exsist with incredibly intact documentation dating within weeks of his death. Even the Jews document his wonders as fact. Tho as a a demonic sort and not the messiah. Look it up.

    Kris

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  16. Sure, movement had to start somewhere, by someone, but that really isn't the case here, by the time we get to 1st or 2nd century AD religion has been evolving for thousands of years. Perhaps there was a preacher, but his name was certainly not Jesus and it's very likely that the person Christians call Jesus is more like a collection of a series of previous believes and myths.

    Open minded

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  17. That is a theory propened by non-scholars, who write books that sell because they have the name Jesus in the title. The concesus among historians is that there was a man Yeshua who was baptised by John, preached and was crucified.

    Peter

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  18. Part 1

    The Virgin birth of Christ, along with the Resurrection form the bedrock, upon which the Christian faith was founded and I want to share some of the research I conducted more than 30 years ago when i was still researching christianity. I will start with the virgin birth of Christ.

    The major problem with Christianity and many other religions is the absolute lack of independent confirmation of the stories, if independent accounts exists, believers are asked to disregard any story in conflict with the story presented within the holy book, so the holy book, becomes the source and proof of itself, an authority unto itself.

    Now lets go back to the Virgin Birth. First of all I want Christians to understand that virgin birth is not unique and exclusive to Christianity, in fact among ancient religions virgin birth was relatively new to the Christian faith. Among the religions of the orient, virgin birth and spiritual birth of their Guru or Saviour was not only accepted as a possibility but as a fact natural to all Gurus.

    It is a fact that divine births were so commonly accepted among ancient people that whenever they hear of one who has greatly distinguish himself, they immediately classify such a person as having been born of a supernatural lineage. The learned Thomas Maurice in his book called Indian Antiquities, goes far as to state that “in every age and in almost every religion of the Asiatic world, there seems uniformly to have flourished an immemorial tradition that one god had from all eternity begotten another god”

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  19. Part 2

    Now lets look at other examples of Virgin Births.

    India has a number of messengers who were divinely conceived and two of them bore the name “Chrishna” or “Chrishna the Saviour” (note the similarity with Christ). Now Chrishna was born of a chaste virgin called Devaki, Who on account of her purity was selected to become the mother of God.

    Buddha was considered and believed by his followers to have been begotten of God and born of a virgin whose name was Maya. Long before the Christian era, we read of how the divine power called the” Holy Ghost” descended upon virgin Maya. In ancient Chinese version of the story, the holy ghost is called Shing-Shin.

    The Siamese (Taiwan), had a God and saviour who was Virgin Born whom they called Codom. In this very ancient story, the beautiful Virgin had been informed in advance that she was to become the mother of a great messenger of God, and one day while in her usual period of meditation and prayer, she was impregnated by divine sun beams. When the boy was born, he grew up in a remarkable manner, became a protégé of wisdom and performed miracles.

    When the first Jesuit priest visited china, they wrote in their reports at finding a heathen religion of that country, of a story of a redeeming saviour who was born of a Virgin and divinely conceived. The God was said to have been born 3468 B.C (before Christ), his name was Lao-Tsze and was said to have been born of a virgin black in complexion and as beautiful as a Jasper.

    In Egypt, long before the Christian era, and before any of its doctrine was conceived, the Egyptian people had several messengers of God, who were conceived through Immaculate Conception. Horus was known to all of ancient Egypt as having been born of the virgin Isis and his conception and birth was considered one of the three great mysteries or mystical doctrines of the Egyptian religion. To then every incident in connection with the conception and birth of Horus was pictured, sculptured, adored and worshiped as the incidents of the conception and birth of Jesus is among the Christians today. Another Egyptian God called Ra was also conceived by a Virgin.

    I think I should stop here, because if I decide to go on the examples would be too many. But I want to add that even, Plato who was born in Athens in 429 B.C. was believed by the populace to be a divine son of a pure virgin called Perictione.
    It is recorded in the ancient record that the father of Plato who was known as Aris had been admonished in a spiritual dream to hold pure and sacred the person of his wife, until after the divine conception and birth of the child that is to come and that this child would be conceived by divine means.

    G

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  20. religious mythologies have a lot in common

    Seam

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  21. Mithras day was celebrated on the 25th of December [/b]and that's now the day that we celebrate Christmas. Even though the Bible tells us that Christ was not born in December.

    And that's just one religion and just a small sample of the similarities it contains!!! Christianity also borrowed from a number of other religions as well.

    No. It's total fact. Just because it doesn't agree with what you believe in doesn't make it any less true.

    Some more similarities:

    ATTIS - Phrygia: Born of the virgin Nana on [b]December 25. He was both the Father and the Divine Son. He was a savior crucified on a tree for the salvation of mankind. He was buried but on the third day the priests found the tomb empty -- He had arisen from the dead (on March 25th). He followers were baptized in blood, thereby washing away their sins -- after which they declared themselves "born again." His followers ate a sacred meal of bread, which they believed became the body of the savoir.

    BUDDIAH – INDIA: Born of the Virgin Maya on December 25th. He was announced by a star and attended by wise men presenting costly gifts. At birth angles sing heavenly songs. He taught in temple at age 12. Tempted by Mara, the Evil One (Satan), while fasting. He was baptized in water with the Spirit of God present. Buddiah healed the sick and fed 500 from a small basket of cakes and even walked on water. He came to fulfill the law and preached the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness and obliged followers to poverty and to renounce the world. He transfigured on a mount. Died (on a cross, in some traditions), buried but arose again after tomb opened by supernatural powers. Ascended into heaven (Nirvana). Will return in later days to judge the dead. Buddiah was called: "Good Shepherd," "Carpenter," "Alpha and Omega," "Sin Bearer," "Master," "Light of the World," "Redeemer," etc.

    DIONYSUS - GREECE: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed many miracles. Turned water into wine. Followers ate sacred meal that became the body of the god. He rose from the dead March 25th. Identified with the ram and lamb's and was called "King of Kings," "Only Begotten Son," "Savior," "Redeemer," "Sin bearer," "Anointed One," the "Alpha and Omega."

    HERACLES – GREECE: Born at the winter equinox of a virgin who refrained from sex with her until her god-begotten child was born and was sacrificed at the spring equinox. He too, was called "Savior," "Only begotten," "Prince of Peace," "Son of Righteousness."


    OSIRIS – EGYPT: He came to fulfill the law. Called "KRST," the "Anointed One." Born of the virgin Isis-Meri on [b]December 25th i[/b]n a cave / manger, with his birth announced by a star and attended by three wise men. Earthly father named "Seb" (translates to "Joseph." At age 12 he was a child teacher in the Temple and at 30 he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years. Osiris was baptized in the river Iarutana -- the river Jordan -- by "Anup the Baptizer," who was beheaded. (Anup translates to John.) He performed miracles, exorcised demons, raised El-Osiris from the dead. Walked on water and was betrayed by Typhon, crucified between two thieves on the 17th day of the month of Athyr. Buried in a tomb from which he arose on the third day (19th Athyr) and was resurrected. His suffering, death, and resurrection celebrated each year by His disciples on the Vernal Equinox -- Easter. Called "The Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "god's Anointed Son,' the "Son of Man," the "Word made Flesh," the "word of truth." Expected to reign a thousand years.

    Luke

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  22. If Jesus lived around the time it is claimed by Christians and had performed all the activities attributed to him, it is a great surprise that no independent accounts so much as mentions him. If he performs all these great acts, why are there no accounts contemporaneous with his life and and works. These are the things one would have expected to find in other independent accounts:

    1) His birth

    - Accounts of the star that guided the wise men
    - Account of the slaughter of the innocent children by Herod
    - Accounts of the census conducted by Quirinius on 4BCE
    - Account of massive movements of population to register for the census
    - Accounts of his family and their specialness

    2) His life and works (his ministry)

    - Accounts of this visiting the temple and causing a commotion there
    - Accounts of the unrest he occasioned
    -Accounts of the miracles he performed


    3) His death

    - Accounts of his trials by the Sahandrins and Romans
    - Accounts of this sentencing
    - Accounts of this death
    - Accounts of the resurrection of the saints
    - Accounts of his resurrection
    - Accounts of his activities post-resurrection

    4) His ascension into heaven


    If this man was really significant, how come nobody saw it fit to mention him even once while he walked the earth. And it was not as if this period was devoid of chroniclers. There were many historians active around this period who you might have expected to have recorded his activities. Philo was particularly active in this period but fails to mention him. This is quite telling.

    Josephus's work appears to mention Jesus but this account has many problems. First, it was written decades after Jesus and secondly the passages that refer to Jesus appear to have been doctored by Christian scholars.

    Pliny, writing in the middle of the 2nd century mentions Christians as followers of a man called Jesus. But this only testified to the existence of Christians rather that the existence of Jesus.

    If fact, there is a widepread Jewish and Jewish-Christian tradition, attested in Epiphanius, the Talmud and the Toledoth Jeschu (dependent onn 2nd century Jewish-Christian gospel), that Jesus was born about 100BCE and was crucified under Alexander Jannaeus.

    So if anyone has any account of an independent evidence of Jesus, let them present it here.

    Marie

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  23. Overlaying the background graphic is a scrolling list of "Some Attributes of Previous Saviors":

    Born of virgin on December 25;
    Stars appeared at their births;
    visited by Magi from the east;
    turned water into wine;
    healed the sick;
    cast out demons;
    performed miracles;
    transfigured before followers;
    rode donkeys into the city;
    betrayed for 30 pieces of silver;
    celebrated communal meal with bread and wine;
    which represented the savior's flesh and blood;
    killed on a cross or tree;
    descended into hell;
    resurrected on third day;
    ascended into heaven;
    to forever sit beside Father God and become Divine Judge.

    JJ

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  24. Good on you Mike! I like your thinking.
    Red, .......that's all too deep for me tonight having just returned from pub. But I like your thinking too. Will reread tomorrow when more sober/able to concentrate!

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