Saturday, 30 August 2014

BISHOPS PALACES and PREDATORY PRIESTS

BISHOPS PALACES and PREDATORY PRIESTS

CREST OF DOWN & CONNOR


THESE TWO COMMENTS WERE SENT TO THIS BLOG BY TWO PRIESTS OF THE DIOCESE OF DOWN AND CONNOR. I PUBLISH THEM, UNEDITED, AS THEY WERE RECEIVED AND INVITE READERS TO READ, REFLECT AND COMMENT IF THEY WISH.

THE TWO IMPORTANT QUESTIONS RAISED:

1. Is Bishop Noel Treanor spending extravagantly on his Belfast palace with door handles costing £350 each, and wallpaper at £100 per roll, plus, etc ?

2. Are predatory priests not being controlled in Down and Connor and are victims suffering as a result?

Bishop's Palace, Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Some years ago I lived in a parochial house which was in a very poor state of repair. The heating was very inadequate, the windows were crumbling in their frames, and the carpets were threadbare. I did a very basic renovation because the parish was already in big debt. I am very angry about the situation on the somerton road. 
I know that Lisbreen needed to be renovated, but the expense and sheer opulence of this project is I believe completely out of proportion to that which was required. 
Bishops & priests do not need, nor should they live in extravagant comfort. Christ lived a simple life & called his followers to do the same. I wish Bishop Noel could visit some of my parishioner's homes; he'd get his eyes opened ! 
What example does our Bishop think he is giving ?! As a D&C priest I feel ashamed by his actions. His role is to the 'build the kingdom of God' in Down & Connor, not a palatial residence in N Belfast. +NT actions prove, that it's always easier to spend someone else's money.


D&C priest.
BISHOP OF DOWN AND CONNOR - NOEL TREANOR




Dear Pat,

Ref the issues raised by some contributers vis a vis the moving of 'predatory priests' (heterosexual & homosexual) from one parish to another, I wish to say the following :

Some months ago in conversation with a couple of fellow D&C priests, I said to them that the next big scandal for the church would be the refusal of Bishops to act properly when they know priests are involved in relationships with vulnerable people.We know the cataclysmic result of moving known child abusers to new parishes & sometimes to a new diocese. I see the same mistakes being made now in relation to priests who use their position of trust to enter into unhealthy and unproductive relationships with women or men who are often very vulnerable. Some priests are serial womanisers, others take advantage of vulnerable men, and we have both types ministering in this diocese at present.
A priest who is sexually compulsive ie predatory, is a great danger, and can wreak havoc in people's lives. The men & women caught in these type of relationships, are often discarded of brutally by the priests when they are no longer of use to them.
These compulsive type relationships can occur in both homosexual and heterosexual situations, and there are many 'broken people' caught up in these. Sadly these particular types of relationships ( often short lived and numerous) are NOT based on mutual love and respect.

I therefore contend that is grossly irresponsible of a Bishop to leave a Priest in active ministry who is behaving in the manner I have just described.

A very concerned D&C cleric.

68 comments:

  1. These are very serious allegations and need to be investigated immediately.

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    Replies
    1. Who will investigate them? I would imagine that the Bishop is not aware of the actions of these so-called priests and even if reported no action is taken as usual.

      Delete
  2. Would Sharon who called me recently please ring back. I think you left me a wrong number

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  3. ARE BISHOPS WHO SPENT FORTUNES ON THEIR PALACESES - AND PRIESTS WHO ARE PREDATORY TO MEN AND WOMEN - INDIFFERENT TO JESUS, HIS GOSPEL AND HIS CALL?

    INDIFFERENCE

    When Jesus came to Golgatha,
    They hanged him on a tree;
    They drove great nails through hands and feet,
    And made a Calvary;
    They crowned him with a crown of thorns,
    Red were his wounds and deep;
    For those were crude and cruel days,
    And human flesh was cheap.

    When Jesus came to BELFAST,
    They simply passed him by;
    They never hurt a hair of him,
    They only let him die.
    For men had grown more tender,
    And they would not give him pain;
    They only passed him in the street,
    And left him in the rain.

    Still Jesus cried "Forgive them,
    For they know not what they do;
    And still it rained the wintry rain,
    That drenched him through and through.
    The crowds went home and left the streets,
    Without a soul to see;
    And Jesus crouched against a wall,
    And cried for CALVARY!

    (G A Studdert-Kennedy)

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  4. Broad Minded Parishioner31 August 2014 at 23:04

    I have already said my bit with regard to the decoration of +NT's residence. My priest lives in the same style humble and crumbling presbytery as described by the first priest’s contribution above and he has never moaned to us parishioners. He would have just cause.

    With regard to the second issue obviously there is no excuse for abusing a position of trust if you are a priest but I would draw your attention to an excellent article under the title of 'Romantic Love Made Evil' and following articles (especially the article written by ‘Marie’) at www.leavingthepriesthood.com . Aside from abusing minors which cannot and must not be tolerated, I think there is an argument to suggest that some priests are as vulnerable as the women and men they minister to and the “brutal” way with which they deal with or end these relationships is borne out of fear and also the fact that the establishment has taught them that, effectively, romantic love is from the devil. The article deals with the issue of mandated celibacy and how it affects the psychosexual development of some priests and gives some explanation as to why there are so many that are in secret relationships with men and women (vulnerable or not) and why those relationships can also turn sour.

    I quote from the article by ‘Marie’ regarding the outcome of once a woman tells the priest she loves him (obviously this would also apply in homosexual relationships too): ‘her openness evokes not love, but fear. Fear that she, angry at his rejection, will report him to the bishop. Fear of losing his job, his friends, his reputation. Fear of the unknown, the ‘outside’ world. He is angry at the woman for causing this fear to arise.......for being nothing but a temptress after all, just as he had been taught to believe.......the woman is shocked that a man who was so kind to her, her closest confidante, who loved her (and perhaps always will) has suddenly turned as cold as a block of stone. She is deeply wounded when the priest rejects her. Typically he goes even further to treat her badly, overcompensating for his earlier too romantic behaviour.....the priest may become even more entrenched in Catholic ideology to prove to himself that he made the right decision; since the Church cannot be wrong, his feelings of love must be’.

    I am not dealing with those priests that abuse children. That is unacceptable and a whole other ‘ball game’ but I think there is evidence to suggest that the nature of the priesthood with regard to situations of trust, power and, to a certain extent, illusion attract these predatory individuals who without the priesthood would be what? On the other hand, those in heterosexual and homosexual relationships whether in committed, albeit secret, relationships or those where they appear to be serial offenders are, I feel, themselves victims of an establishment that has fundamentally got it wrong. There should be no mandated celibacy. As the above mentioned article suggests ‘Only in the Roman Catholic Church is God’s gift of love perceived as evil’.

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  5. This is an EXCELLENT CONTRIBUTION and is borne out by my experience of dealing with priests and their female and male partners in the diocese of Down and Connor and further afield.

    I do believe that the RC Church is wrong and that the celibacy law is evil.

    However is a priest is a man of prayer and faith, as he should be, is it okay for him as a victim of church law to make victims of women and men to satisfy his own very normal sexual needs?

    There are huge questions of morality involved here.

    Pat

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    Replies
    1. Is this not just the old arguement of an abuser using his own victimhood as the justification of his abuse?

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    2. Broad Minded Parishioner1 September 2014 at 23:45

      I personally don't think that the majority of these priests are abusing or making victims of anyone. I also agree with some other contributors that many of the women and men involved in these relationships with priests go into them knowing the limitations and with eyes wide open. I don’t think these people are ‘evil’ - we don’t often choose who we fall in love with.

      I think these priests are simply wanting to have the relationships that everyone, who isn't a Catholic priest and isn’t the subject of a ridiculous and controlling promise, is allowed to have. These relationships could range from going well to going wrong just as they do in normal circumstances. I would also suggest that having their sexual needs met wasn’t the only factor that made priests enter into a relationship either. I would imagine that many of these relationships start with the basic human need for companionship, love and a soul-mate.

      I am sure that a lot of these relationships would be considered quite normal if it wasn’t for the fact that they had to be covert and also plagued by guilt and fear. As to the question of morality or hypocrisy of these priests – what about the way they are treated when they do have the courage to come forward and are honest about having fallen in love and wishing to marry. Every obstacle is put in their path by the Catholic Church. I still think the priests are the abused victims.

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  6. Bishop Pat, I agree with your point about bishops and priests taking moral responsibility for their life styles.

    When a priests uses another adult for his pleasure it often leads to broken lives, broken marriages and the undermining of faith in the whole parish.

    Parishioner - Dunloy Parish - County Antrim

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  7. I recently had a consenting adult sexual encounter with another man.

    Imagine my surprise when I went to Mass the following Sunday and that man came out to celebrate Mass.

    When he gave me Holy Communion he smiled at me.

    As a Catholic I feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing. I would not have freely consented to a sexual encounter with a priest.

    Gay Man. Co. Antrim

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  8. Obviously that priest feels no contradiction of conscience?

    In another case I deal with a priest who was sleeping with a woman parishioner used to give her Holy Communion - not with the words: THE BODY OF CHRIST - but with the cynical ones: CHRIST WHAT A BODY :-(

    Its all a mess

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  9. I live in a parish in Down and Connor.

    Our parish priest has his female partner living with him in the presbytery as if he does not care.

    Behind his back we call her Mrs McPriest.

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  10. Most of us priests in D&C know of all these situations. The D&C priestly community is a very small one. Both Bishop Walsh and now Bishop Treanor also know all this.

    Maybe this out of control situation encourages Bishop Treanor to turn a blind eye and create an ultra luxurious bunker?

    It would take a courageous and very spiritual bishop to investigate and tackle all this.

    It would also leave more parishes without priests.

    PP D&C

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  11. Nero plays the fiddle while Rome burns

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  12. I had an affair with a priest. Well into the affair I discovered that I had competition for his affections from a nun. As far as I am concerned he used both of us and dumped us and moved on to other partners.

    We expept our Catholic married men to be faithful to their vows.

    Are we not to accept the same standards from those who take priestly vow / promies and sermonmise to the rest of us about fidelity?

    D. Belfast

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    Replies
    1. So you were happy enough with the situation when you thought you were the only one?

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  13. Women (or men) who enter into sexual liasons with priests committed to priestly celibacy know what they are getting into and should know that no good can come from the sins they committ and encourage the priests to commit. The "pains" they and the priests suffer are the fruits of the serious sin they committ. If you do not want to get burned then stay away from the fire

    Senior Priest of Down and Connor

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  14. That may be true Father. But is the Bishop not the guardian of Church teaching and discipline in the diocese? Of course some priests will play around if they know that they are never going to be held accountable.

    If I approached my family responsibilities like this then my children would get into all kinds of unwanted trouble. As the Bible says: "If the trumpeter does not sound the alarm who will prepare for battle".

    In the case of the home the responsibility lies with the parents. In the diocese it lies with the bishop.

    TR Co. Down

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  15. Pat,
    I'm the D&C priest who contributed the original article on 'predatory' priests. It is clear from the responses that this issue is a very 'live' one in our diocese. The big question is of course what our Bishop, Noel Treanor (+NT) is going to do about it ?
    I'm NOT hopeful that he will put the needs of vulnerable people first. Why ? Because 12 months ago he moved a priest to a new parish, even though he knew that this priest was a serial womaniser. I have spoken with parishioners from his previous parish and they are 1) very hurt that their PP was living a 'double life' under their noses. 2) astonished that their PP was simply moved to another parish, even though it's obvious to them that this is simply moving the problem elsewhere.
    Why is it not obvious to + NT ? I believe vulnerable females in that new parish are in danger from their new PP.
    Has +NT learnt nothing from the disastrous manner in which the church dealt with priests who were paedophiles ? Old habits of protecting clergy are hard to break ! Sadly bishops generally do not welcome informed and/or constructive criticism, and I am fearful what would happen to me, if I personally brought this information to the Bishop. What do I do ?

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    Replies
    1. Please be careful. A quick search will reveal that only 3 PPs were transferred from parish to parish last year. It is unfair to the other 2 (if indeed your story about the 3rd is correct) to put them under suspicion.

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    2. From my reading of the 2013 changes about 9 priests were appointed PP.

      Maybe our priest colleague priest was using the word PP loosely? ie: priest of a parish?

      On another note - there are excellent and good priests in D&C. It is ones who misbehave who cast a shadow over those good men.

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    3. It also looks like people are still prepared to sit back and say nothing. Sin by omission. And no the priest was not using the word PP loosely

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  16. Dear Brother,

    First of all - thank you for making the problems / issues known by contributing to this Blog.

    A priest making one "mistake" is one thing - but a priest being a known SERIAL WOMANISER is another matter completely.

    If Bishop Treanor expects that the people of a parish accept, respect and follow a priest he appoints to lead them - then the people of the parish should be sure that Bishop Treanor knows and regards the priest as a responsible pastor who will not hurt or abuse anyone in his parish - children, vulnerable adults, women or men.

    If Bishop Treanor KNOWINGLY sends an abusing priest to a new parish then I believe that he is both MORALLY and LEGALLY responsible for his actions. He is in fact being morally and criminmally negligent.

    What are you to do?

    I think you should write to Bishop Treanor and sign yourself as a "worried priest" and tell Bishop Treanor the name of this priest and what you know he has done / is doing. and tell him that if it comes out you will be a witness in any proceedings brought against him, the diocese and the priest.

    I also think that you should find some sensitive way to let the people in the priest's new parish about him.

    I do think that this will eventually break in the media.

    From my own sources I am aware of this priest and I will take whatever actions I can

    Pat


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    Replies
    1. You haven't taken any action Pat in the twelve months since he was moved

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  17. PS: If you feel that you cannot send that letter to Bishop Treanor post or email it to me and I will remove anything that identifies you and see to it that Bishop Treanor gets it.

    Pat

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  18. I am HORRIFIED to hear that in 2014 a priest cannot draw an abusing priest to the attention of his bishop without the fear of getting into trouble or spoiling his priestly future!

    Surely we are not sill there - after all these reports and all these assurances of openness by the church authorities?

    Is the priest "whistle blower" still under threat from our Church?

    Dr. Belfast

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  19. Yes Dr, sadly, the whistleblower is still not welcome in Holy Mother Church. In the gospels there is the constant refrain, " Do not be afraid"; try telling that to the priests of Down & Connor !
    During the time of Bishop Walsh's 'reign' , we used to joke that he got his "retaliation in first" ! The people of D&C are largely living in blissful ignorance. I wish I could say the same !
    D&C priest.

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  20. If a priest is a compulsive womaniser (or man-iser) his bishop should arrange help for him. If he is not willing to take help - then sadly - he needs to be sent on his way.

    I agree that compulsory celibacy is wrong - but in the meantime people cannot use that as an excuse to exploit others - especially in the name of a Jesus or a church.

    Therapist.

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  21. Well said Therapist. You have summed the situation up well. Many priests also feel trapped, 'round pegs in square holes' as the old saying states, and that is not a good place for them or the people they serve; so often unable to meet their emotional and intimacy needs in a legitimate way. The compensatory behaviour patterns then begin to reveal themselves. ( Alcohol, pornography, secret relationships, golfing 5 or 6 days a week, etc)
    I've been a priest a long time and I've seen it all !

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  22. There is so much judgment going on here. Priests who are in consensual relationships with other adults are not breaking the law of the land, even if they are breaking the code of canon law. I have never come across such self righteousness as on these comments. Whatever happened to "live and let live." After all "It takes two to tango" and having dealt with many priests in relationships know that the other adult party, be they male of female, are more often than not willing participants. Let he, be he bishop, priest, or lay person, who is without sin cast the first stone.

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    Replies
    1. Broad Minded Parishioner2 September 2014 at 08:48

      Completely agree. Especially with the last sentence.

      Delete
  23. The crossing of professional boundaries is a very important issue in relation to the world of medicine, business, education, etc. Why therefore do you not think that priests crossing professional boundaries is a serious issue ? ( never mind the added moral dimension involved in ministry )
    I'm simply pointing out certain activities in D&C diocese, that warrant serious investigation by diocesan authorities. Turning a 'blind eye' as you seem to be suggesting as a response, will simply lead to more heartache in both the short and long term.
    Moving a priest who has an alcohol problem, from parish to parish, will not help him come to terms with his addiction, and neither will moving a priest who is a womaniser , help him make better choices in his pastoral ministry.
    A Bishop ignoring warning signs is simply storing up future problems.
    The model of diocesan priesthood needs an overall, including mandatory celibacy. Gifts can only be received, NOT mandated !

    D&C priest.

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    Replies
    1. Love the typo: or was it?
      "The diocesan priesthood needs an overall"
      Do you mean a type of overall as a cover up?
      Maybe spellcheck needs an overhaul!

      But overall, an entirely sensible comment drawing attention on the crossing of professional boundaries. It's simply not acceptable, and no justification persuades me otherwise. Inherent in the cleric/parishoner relationship (even with a single adult male or female) there is always an element of the cleric taking advantage of his position, and again, even with a "predatory" parishoner. The onus is on the cleric to recognise the attraction vis a vis his position of trust (somewhat similar to the teacher/pupil relationship), and to take all reasonable steps to disengage.
      That might mean relinquishing clerical status to pursue a healthy meaningful relationship, in which case, good luck to them. But anything else is self delusional.
      MournemanMichael


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    2. I completely agree with Fr above. As for 'Broad-minded parishioner', BROAD is the road that leads to damnation according to Our Lord. The person (priest?) whinging about everyone being 'judgemental' sounds like one of the offenders and all those priests being immoral with women or men will one day face the Judgement of Almighty God. Celibacy should maybe be optional but to describe it as 'evil' is ay over the top. Those homo and hetero clerics, I suspect, would still be acting up and out, celibacy mandatory or not. They should get out of the priesthood. The Church would be better served by a small number of faithful priests than 100 men playing fast and loose with God's Gifts and courting the loss of their own immortal souls. There will be a reckoning for all this. There is no excuse for any priest exploiting women or lusting after men/teenage boys, etc. Take yourselves off out of the priesthood. You are a liability and unfit for purpose. You should be trembling at the thought of your deaths and Judgement to come. Narrow-minded and proud of it. Priest.

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  24. Father,

    Your comment above is very balance and very fair. I can understand a priest and a woman (man) having feelings for each other and falling in love. That is perfectly human.

    What I cannot understand is ONE priest having SEVERAL women on the go at the one time and having DIFFERENT women in several places.

    Even if such a priest were allowed to marry he would probably be committing adultery on his wife!

    Nor can I understand a bishop - in 2014 - "solving" the problem of a womanising priest by moving the priest from parish to parish - as the priest will soon have new women in the new parish and required moved again!

    What will happen when the bishop runs out of parishes to move him to? Will he start all over again in Parish A and become involved with the daughters of the women he seduced the first time around?

    Parishioner - Dunloy Parish - County Antrim

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  25. Dear parishioner of Dunloy,
    I know what went on in Dunloy parish in recent years, and why you are distressed by the situation. Your former PP needs help. He is already involved in a new 'relationship,' and so the destructive womanising cycle continues.
    I hope Bishop Treanor realises the very 'dangerous poker game' that he is playing.
    When all of this 'blows up' as it most surely will, Noel Treanor will not have a leg to stand on !
    D&C priest.

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    Replies
    1. Take a look st the word you use there - destructive - just a word. But then apply that word to a life/lives. Lives are being destroyed. People are being left feeling hugely betrayed and it will affect others and their faith Fla a long time to come. If u know this man needs help then as his brother please let it be known before any more lives are destroyed by his powers of manipulation - please

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  26. Was the PP (problematic priest) in Dunloy??

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  27. Dear Pat,

    There is another aspect to this whole situation, that arises in my mind . What mechanism is there within existing diocesan structures to hold a Bishop to account ?
    If a priest, or a member of the lay faithful is very concerned about a decision or decisions taken by the the Bishop of the Diocese, how can they :1) bring this concern to diocesan authorities. ( not including the Bishop involved) ? 2) be sure it will be dealt with in an objective and transparent manner ? 3) be assured that diocesan authorities will provide them with the reasons why the original concern raised by them is either rejected or upheld.
    During Bishop Walsh's 'reign' I was made aware of a serious situation in a country parish ; basically the PP was drinking heavily and was not looking after the parish.Numerous parishioners wrote to the Bishop, including local doctors, teachers, and parish representatives. Not one of them to the best of my knowledge, even received an acknowledgement of their correspondence.
    Bishop knows best was the clear message from that. Unfortunately it was only when the situation had reached the 'point of no return' that the Bishop finally intervened. Too little, too late ! Sadly, Bishop Treanor is falling into the same trap of the 3 monkeys seated beside each other who represent: 'hear no evil', 'speak no evil', & 'see no evil'. A Bishop who cannot or will not, make difficult decisions in relation to clergy or other important issues, needs to move aside for the good of all.

    D&C priest.

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  28. Dear D&C Priest,

    Thank you for the openness of your comment and your acknowledgement of the situation in D&C.

    The principal reason that people and priests of Down and Connor have contacted me about issues / problems over the years is that NEITHER priests and people have any real way to have their voices heard in the D&C structures. This needs to change so that people / priests with genuine concerns are not forced to go "outside" with their concerns to people like me of Blogs like this.

    You mention Bishop Paddy Walsh's way of doing - or not doing business. Can I highlight a case in point.

    FOR TEN YEARS before the JAMES DONAGHY case exploded I had been writing to Paddy Walsh with people's concerns - especially the concerns of the family of VICTIM A fro the eventual court case. I have a thick file of these communications and a copy of that file at a remote venue.

    Paddy Walsh refused to meet Victim A's family for years and pawned them off on Monsignor Colm McCaughan. Monsignor McCaughan eventually too stopped communicating with them. They were left with no help and no support.

    In desperation they came to me. Paddy Walsh messed us around for a very long time - and then ONLY on threat of going public did he meet Victim A's family who were accompanied to Lisbreen by myself.

    James Donaghy had told Victim A's family that Paddy Walsh would not listen to them for 2 reasons:

    1. That Walsh would take the word of a PP over the word of mere lay people.

    2. That he - Donaghy - "had something" on Walsh.

    Bishop Walsh did deny at our meeting that James Donaghy had anything on him.

    As regards Bishop Treanor. Noel never asked to become bishop of D&C. In fairness to him he inherited a mess from Paddy Walsh. By nature he is a reserved man - more used to the halls of diplomacy than to the pastoral pressures of a modern diocesan bishop.

    I believe that Noel is OVERWHELMED by D&C and its needs, issues and problems.

    People have told me that when they raise a priest problem with him he puts his hands in the air in a gesture of bewilderment and semi-despair. He solves this by referring everybody to the Chancellor Ad Interm who has no authority and who is already in over his head with being a PP, marriage tribunal official, a sometime broascaster and an entertainer.

    Noel is stuck in D&C and D&C are stuck with Noel. If I were Pope Francis I would make Noel a nuncio or a curial offical - roles he would suit well. Then I would appoint a youngish, wise and courageous PASTOR to D&C.

    If it is not possible to move Noel then I think that D&C needs a very good priest who has some authority and acts as the Vicar for Priests.

    Pat



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  29. Pat,

    Forgive the :-) and I'm not being cynical or disrespectful in any way - but it strikes me that you are the nearest thing we have at the moment as a vicar for priests / people.

    PP D&C

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  30. A thought just struck me - what about a diocesan ombudsman?

    Pat

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    Replies
    1. Democratic structures? Gr8 idea but there'd sooner be a female bishop in D&C
      What they really need is women in all levels of the Church.

      Delete
  31. Pat,

    I agree that +NT is clearly a fish out of water. To bring him from Brussels to Belfast in order to clear up the sh-t left behind by +PW was always going to end in tears.
    A suggestion for + Noel ; take the Enterprise Train to Dublin, followed by a taxi to Phoenix park to the residence of Archbishop Charles Brown. (Papal Nuncio)
    I then suggest he asks Charlie Brown for a transfer. If Noel remains here until retirement I fear the enmity and mistrust between him & the D&C clergy will grow, and the end result will be spiritual paralysis.

    D&C priest.

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  32. A Broad with a Mind but probably Ex-Parishioner!!2 September 2014 at 21:46

    Dear Narrow-minded and proud of it Priest,

    Maybe I am using the term BROAD in the wrong way. Perhaps I should call myself OPEN minded. I am not perfect and probably will be damned but I do try and see things from both sides and understand why people do what they do, good or bad. I have felt here that, whilst there will be those priests who are behaving badly and taking advantage, there are many others who are in sincere relationships where they are not abusers and their partners are not victims. It is not for me to judge if these relationships are ultimately right or wrong – on this I am open-broad, whatever you want to call it, minded.

    As I am OPEN minded I am able to take on board other people’s arguments and having read all the contributions here I concur that a boundary is probably being crossed between a priest and a parishioner in a relationship but I believe that this happens because of the celibacy issue (which I think is wrong but have not called ‘evil’ – I assume you are referring to somebody else here). I think we would see a lot more Doctors having affairs with patients if they were under the same circumstances.

    Unfortunately you sound like you have a heart of stone and your seeming lack of empathy and compassion for your brother priest (even the bad ones) might make YOU unfit for purpose. How could they turn to you for support or even forgiveness? You sound bitter and obsessed with damnation. They are far more likely to turn to the kind caring parishioner or the bottle.

    However, as I am OPEN and BROAD minded and as you are a priest, I still have respect for you even if we perhaps do not agree on our approach to situations. I am sure you are not as insensitive and unapproachable as your NARROW minded writing suggests and beware the deadly sin of pride!

    Anyway, I have totally digressed from the point of this discussion (as I am guilty of always wanting to know why people do the things they do to understand the whole picture). The real issue here was that +NT was not keeping a watchful eye on his errant priests and that does not sound right. If nothing else it sounds like his priests need a lot more attention and support to stop them from falling from grace and those that have discerned that a loving relationship is what they need, by all means they should be set free from the priesthood (on this we agree Narrow Minded!) but with good will (ah! disagree again) and that is clearly his role as Bishop.

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    1. Dear open-minded Parishioner, celibacy or no celibacy, these men would still be messing around and playing the field, with women and men, It is a disgrace and I have no patience anymore with these self-serving individuals who are betraying Christ and the priesthood. They should do the decent thing and get out of the ministry; but as they likely won't because they have a comfortable niche and are able to get away with stuff they wouldn't get away with in 'secular' life - at least, they have a better chance of getting the bunch of fives they so richly deserve maybe from an irate husband/partner! When Jesus warned people about scandalising 'litte ones' He certainly meant children but He also added 'those who have faith' meaning vulnerable members of the Faith Community. Those in ministry have a sacred obligation to those they are privileged to serve not to abuse that sacred trust, I believe there is a lack of prayer in these men. Pat Buckley may well be right - these men have NO FAITH and are engaged in a cynical and disgusting game. The Judgement of God will fall on these false priests who seem to have invested all their energies in gratifying their sinful desires and lusts, as well as whinging and complaining about the bishop, etc., etc. Priest.

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    2. It strikes me, with the Dunloy references, that we now know exactly WHO it is being referred to.... 'Oh, Fr Jasper...... ;-)

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    3. To the narrow minded & PROUD priest:
      I highlight one key word in your self styled title! It sums up the description of you drawn from your comments, to which I'd add "arrogant in your own righteousness".
      The sooner old relics of the past: Thomistic inspired beliefs in absolutism,, and in consequence, the supremecy of "the one true holy catholic church"; are consigned to the past together with their shackled and blinkered adherents/advocates, the better it will be for all humans with an open minded enquiring engagement with this wonderful ever changing world we live in. It is but a microscopic dot in the swirling dusts of the universe where nothing is absolute.
      I agree entirely with the sentiments expressed with the open minded parishoner above, and ask that you seriously consider how others might perceive your single minded righteousness.
      MournemanMichael

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    4. Dear Priest. I hear what you are saying. Since I am not in D&C but in the UK it is difficult for me to ascertain just what these priests are up to but I'll admit the more I read the more it sounds as though these are not the sort of relationships that I approve of myself. Either I am naïve (probably) or it just isn't the same in our Diocese. Maybe here they are just more discreet. And I'm not saying that makes it OK!! I admire you for being so strong in your principles and faith even if I still find your tone a little severe. As a priest you would scare me which isn't always a bad thing but I would find it hard to come to you and confess my sins and ask for your forgiveness based on how you write. I am going off on another tangent trying to understand you now. I'm sure we would find common ground if we talked for long enough and understood each other. I respect your opinions in the meantime.

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  33. Pat for God's sake STOP THIS NOW. You are on the verge of naming and shaming priests on your blog in this merciless crusade against Noel Treanor. Are you prepared for the consequences if an offending priest is revealed as a result of your intemperate and highly dangerous postings? What happens if a priest is driven to suicide? Will that be enough to quench this almost insatiable thirst for revenge? The more I read these recent postings the more I despair. Are you truly concerned about addressing the issues of sexally active priests in the ministry, priests in relationships? Or are you hell bent on scoring points against Noel Traenor in your never-ending campaign for justice and to belong once again to the club that kicked you out? Sadly I believe its the latter and thats why Treanor and his cronies do not give one singe second to condsidering what you are saying. They can laugh you off as "that nutter Buckley." But what you are doing is so dangerous. By encouraging bloggers and whipping them up into a frenzy of self righteous denunciation you are not helping or adding to a debate that needs to happen, rather you are driving priests in relationships, be they gay or strait, underground and into more fear and toxic shame, and their partners too. For the love of God and for the love of your brothers and sisters please I beg you to put an end to this series of postings. Before someone kills themselves in despair for what you have unleashed upon them. A Priest

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    1. I do not think, hysterical priest, there is any danger at all that any of these geezers will top themselves.

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  34. Dear Priest,

    Thank you for commenting.

    I am NOT on a merciless crusade against anyone. I have people and priests who come to speak to me regularly who feel that they have no way of expressing their views and feelings. Many of these people are on the verge of losing their FAITH because of the way they are being ignored and treated.

    Can you suggest a another way to me that I can help these people get their voices heard?

    The fact that you talk about "Treanor and his cronies" must mean you have serious misgivings yourself.

    Pat

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    1. Excellant riposte, and very fair challenge in your second parag Pat.

      So 'cmon "A priest", and others who criticise, what seems to me a "last resort", but very fair way of dragging, albeit kicking and screaming this ivory tower of pompous clericalism out into the open: what's your answer and suggestions for a productive way forward?
      MourneManMichael

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  35. The only 'frenzy' I am reading is from the above "Priest". And the suicide card?? It won't be the first time that sick trick has been employed: 'if you do that/don't do this - I will kill myself and it will your fault, I hope you can live with yourself!!!'

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  36. "Hysterical Priest" ... a typical response from an unthinking yahoo. I wonder how you would feel if you were "outed" publicly and as a result lost everything. I'm not so sure you would be so quick to judge, thats for sure. Have you the first idea of what it means to be a Christian? No sign of it I'm afraid. (

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    1. If you are not living a doubl life then you cant be 'outed'.

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  37. Being a Christian does not mean to coalesce in the sinful behaviour of others, Loves rejoices not in iniquity but in the Truth. These priests are living in mortal sin and in danger of going to Hell when they die.

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  38. Lisbreen has been in urgent need of extensive overhaul for years. Cathal Daly and Paddy Walsh threw good money after bad, especially Walsh. The money being spent is needed to secure the place as a resource centre for the future and there is nothing but hearsay and histrionics to support the allegations of exorbitance and luxury. Tieve Tara was once the home of four priests - Joseph Glover, Timothy Bartlett, Eugene O'Hagan and Michael McGinnity (as far as I know). These have all moved elsewhere. The bishop has only been living there temporarily and it is wise to sell it off at a good price. Bishop Noel Trainor needs the support and prayers of the priests and people in facing many difficult problems among which are priests who are unfaithful to their calling and giving scandal to the Catholic faithful.

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  39. I can understand that any property neglected for years, requires renovation. The house I live in, owned by the Church, was two years ago partially renovated after no repairs had been done for at least 50 years. The renovation did not even extend to redecoration.

    In Canon Law bishops and pastors are required to look after church assets. No one argues with this.

    But door handles at £350 each? Wallpaper at £100 a roll?

    Apart from the teachings of Christ this kind of expenditure in against the instructions of the Francis, the Bishop of Rome.

    If inaccurate claims have been made in this Blog I am perfectly willing to publish an unedited account of the monies that are being spent.

    Let Bishop Treanor publish a full account of the cost of renovating Lisbreen.

    This will leave no doubt in people's minds of what is being spent.

    After all this money belongs to the people of D&C and their parents, grandparents etc.

    Pat

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  40. A glimmer of hope Pat that you may have the courage to retract the ludicrous claims that you have made about the costs of wall paper and door handles. You do not know how much these have cost and have believed the word of those who know even less about the renovation than you do. Bishop Treanor has had little if any input into the renovation of the house, save for the fixtures and fittings of the small area set aside for his personal use (the equivalent of a one bedroom flat). Believe you me I have urged the bishop to take you on, to challenge you, to engage with you and show you the facts. But this will not happen. The bishop is convinced that the best way to deal with you is to ignore you. I have to say that i have come, reluctantly, to agree with him. The viciousness and merciless with which you (and your deluded followers) have approached this good and holy man is truly shocking. You need to get down on your knees and beg your bishops forgiveness. D&C Priest

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  41. U r the deluded one brothet priest. Ask + NT what the D&C tab at Ballinderry Antiques is ?!

    D&C cleric

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  42. Lets forget the emotional blackmail and stick to facts. If I am shown that inaccurate facts have been used here I will immediately correct.

    What is wrong with the dynamic between +Noel and the priests who contribute here?

    As for Noel being my bishop - the bishops of D&C have not acknowledged me since 1986. In what sense then can they be "my" bishop?

    Ignoring people does not make them go away. As someone once said: "We haven't gone away you know". :-)

    Pat

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  43. Dear brother D&C priest,

    the phone number for Ballinderry Antiques is 028 92 65 1046. You might like to enquire as to the cost of an antique desk, recently purchased with D&C money, (unless +Noel has very substantial private means) for placement in 'Lisbreen'. A large 5 figure sum was involved. Do you think that was either a wise or necessary investment for a 'successor to the apostles' to make ?
    WHERE IS JESUS, THE ANOINTED ONE, IN ALL OF THIS ?

    Why would the people of D&C not be entitled to a breakdown of the costs of the 'Lisbreen' major refurbishment / extension/ gardening works, given that the very substantial sums involved ( millions) have been donated by them and their forebears. (" He who pays the piper......." )
    Mr Gorbachev said some years ago to the Russian people, "Let us enter a period of 'glasnost' (clarity/ openness)". How I would love +NT to say those words to the people of D&C, and to mean them !

    Priest of the Diocese.

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  44. Yes, thats about the level of it, sadly.

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  45. Dear priest of Diocese,
    please stop discussing diocesan 'affairs' (pun fully intended !)
    +Noel has gone on the drink - Pomerol 61 & Chartreuse 2008, Eugene's singing voice is fluctuating, & Joe cant concentrate on 'bean' counting in his new office.
    'Lisbreen' is in turmoil - have some pity on the 3 'wise' men @ HQ.

    D&C cleric.

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    1. Your as much a D&C cleric [sic]" as i am the Archbishop of Canterbury's catamite! When you open your mouth you profess your ignorance of the truth. Senior Down and Connor Cleric

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  46. Dear D&C cleric,

    Is it true that the BBC have contacted the Diocese, with a view to broadcasting an 'Antiques Roadshow Christmas Special' from 'Château de Noel' ( formerly known as 'Lisbreen') ?
    The Bishop has a tenuous link with the Christmas story, as he was born on December 25th. ( hence his name ) But let's move on from that - what has Jesus to do with any of this ?
    Back to the 'Antiques Roadshow' - could I suggest the 'Chancellor ad interim' sing a few Carols and then +Noel could lend some gravitas by giving a short address. I love a bit of Latin, it adds a certain 'je ne sais quoi' to proceedings.
    When +Noel speaks to us at the Chrism Mass on Holy Thursday morning, he 'sprinkles'' inter alias & quo vadis' terms like gentle rose petals falling on an autumn morning.
    All I can I say in response is "Deo Gratias, Deo Deo Gratias !

    LUX.

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  47. I wish to say, as a priest of Down and Connor, that our bishop has my total support and prayers, I am certain the expenditure on Lisbreen is fully justified long-term and that Bishop Treanor has been appropriately advised on all this.

    I do not have a clue who all these discontented clergy are. In my experience, Bishop Noel is a kind and decent man who is very approachable. The atmosphere in the diocese is totally different to what it was in the past.

    Those clergy who are committing grave sins with either men or women - yes - GRAVE SINS - I make no apology for saying it and you can call me 'judgemental' all you like, need to either repent and recommit themselves to Christ; or leave the priesthood.

    Do you believe in what you are doing at the Altar each day? Do you even offer Holy Mass faithfully everyday? Do you pray at all? Or are you like that cleric who smiled at that man when giving him Hoy Communion, a man with whom he had committed a mortal sin? What a sacrilege!

    Rest assured, whoever you are: "God is not mocked. You will reap what you sow" (Galatians 6:7). Priest of D&C.

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