Tuesday, 12 April 2016

CATHOLIC PRIESTS PAID 49,000- 55,000 TO SAY MASS FOR 4/9 STUDENTS

CATHOLIC PRIESTS PAID 49,000 - 55,000 TO SAY MASS FOR 4/9 STUDENTS!



THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHAPLAIN TO CORK INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY IS BEING PAID EURO 49,000 PER YEAR OUT OF PUBLIC FUNDS TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO STUDENTS - AND THE MASSES HE SAYS ARE SOMETIMES ATTENDED BY 4 STUDENTS!

That works out at Euro 12,250 per student.

Were he to say Mass on 365 days a year he would be paid Euro 134 per mass.

However because of long college holidays he probable says about 200 + Masses for students which amounts to Euro 200 per Mass.

So the Irish public and tax payer are spending E 49,000 to provide 4 + students with Mass. 

That does not count the cost of providing the chaplain - Father Dave McAuliffe - with an office and a staff.

Plus in recent years CIT has paid part of the cost of redecorating two houses owned by the Catholic Church which it uses for the chaplaincy service. One repaint job cost the tax payer in excess of E 1,000.

The situation in SLIGO INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY is the same. The Chaplain there is paid E 55,000 a year to say Mass for 9 students!


Father McGonagle and Father Bamber
Even if the two priests share this salary it means that they both get an average of £27,500 for saying daily Mass for 9 students.

My understanding is that these state paid salaries are paid into the Catholic Church's funds and that priests then get a Church chosen salary. 

So between the Cork and Sligo colleges the Irish tax payer or indeed the students or their parents paying fees pay E 104,000 for 2/3 priests salaries!!!

Then if you multiply this by all the colleges and schools paying Catholic chaplains fees all over the country you must be into millions of Euros going into Church coffers from the government, the tax payer and the public.

And then add to that all the Government is paying to Catholic Church chaplains to hospital, prison and other state institutions.

This is a real money maker to the Irish Catholic Church.

And these jobs are not even open to all to apply. the local Catholic bishop gets to say who is given the job!

It would also be interesting to know the situation in Northern Ireland.

Who is paying for the grand Catholic chaplaincy building on Elmwood Avenue at Queen's Belfast? And how much is the chaplain there - a monk with a vow of poverty - earning?




Is the same is true of Jordanstown, Coleraine and Magee in Derry?

Is the same also true of the Royal Victoria Hospital, Belfast City Hospital, Musgrave Park Hospital and Altnagelvin in Derry?




Some years ago the Hospice in Belfast needed a part time Catholic chaplain and the Bishop of Down and Connor told them they had no one to spare.




I offered my services FREE. I was told by the Hospice that I would have to be nominated by the Catholic Bishop of Down and Connor !

How much money is the Church (and other churches) and priests (and other clergy) taking from the tax payer - whether those tax payers believe or not or go to church or not?

Why can the parish priests of patients not visit them in hospital and look after their church needs? Is not that what a parish priest is for?

Should we not believe that if a church wants to spread it message or offer its religious services it should do so out of its own funds.

How many of you reading this have 49,000 to 55,000 a year coming in? And unlike priests you have wives, children, mortgages etc.

There is a massive HIDDEN story of how much money the Catholic Church and other churches are getting secretly from the tax payer. 



37 comments:

  1. Is it true that in the Diocese of Down and Connor the bishop's salary is £120,000 and the salary for a parish priest is £29,000 and the salary for a curate is £24,000 and that they all have other benefits on top of these salaries - like Mass Offerings, Wedding / Funeral donations etc?

    Non Practising Belfast Accountant

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    Replies
    1. I do not know what is happening now. But when I was in St Peter's Cathedral - 1978 - 1983 - I had my keep, £70 a month in my pocket, my car insurance was paid and I could get an interest free loan to get a car.

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    2. My deceased brother was a priest in D&C. When he was a curate the Parish Priest was entitled to ONE THIRD of all the parish income and the other TWO THIRDS was divided among the curates.

      When my brother became a PP and was in a well to do parish he lived like a lord - and left a sizeable estate behind him. I always said to him: "I should have been a priest".

      Coleraine Colm

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    3. Among the millions who died in the Great Famine in Ireland in the 19th century not one of them was a priest!

      In fact during that famine the Irish Catholic Church embarked on a huge church building programme. Says it all.......

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    4. In the month of May ALONE 1847 - 36 priests died of famine related diseases - check on it! Perhaps someone who has time to research it would be able to find a total!
      If anything "says it all" - Anonymous 13.16 - get your facts straight!
      Armagh Sam

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    5. AS, Thank you. Can you provide your sources and evidence for this - to assist the debate.

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    6. Check our irishhungermartyrs.org - towards the end of the document!!!
      I was under the impression that church buildings did not take off until the 1870's - my parish Church was completed in 1896.
      You really have - some peculiar followers!!!
      Sam

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    7. Thanks. I will look at that.

      I must say that I do not classify the contributors to the blog as followers or non followers.

      I am not at all interested in having Buckleyites :-)

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    8. To Anonymous at 13:16

      Can you provide any evidence for your statements? It's not that I disbelieve
      you; it's just that I had never heard of the Irish Catholic Church's spending money on building stone temples while human temples to the Holy Spirit were suffering such miserable deaths.

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    9. Funding a Roman Catholic Church in Nineteenth-Century Ireland
      Brendan Grimes
      Architectural History
      Vol. 52 (2009), pp. 147-168
      Published by: SAHGB Publications Limited
      Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/20623026
      Page Count: 22

      "Between 1790 and 1845 2,000 Catholic churches were built in Ireland"

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    10. To Anonymous at 19:28

      Thanks for the information.

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  2. Perhaps someone who has the time and competence could check on priests' Famine Related Deaths.

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  3. Saying Mass for students is - for Catholics - their most important duty. Do the not play a significant part in the spiritual development of their students!
    Student at Coleraine University hold their Chaplain - name I do not know - in exceptionally high regard!
    Sam!

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    Replies
    1. Fr mccullagh I believe he is called . From what I know he is very well thought of

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    2. An by all members of the University - staff, students and fellow chaplains! Nice to hear from you - appreciated!
      Sam.

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    3. Sam, I think you are one of Ireland's bishop's "bum boys".

      Eire go brath.

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    4. Eire go breath
      I am almost seventy-nine years old. The last time I was in contact with a bishop - and did nor even speak to him - was the day of my confirmation.
      I do not know what the term 'bum boy' means!

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    5. It does seem to me that you are typical of the Lord Buckley's camp-followers - arrogantly jumping to unjustifiable conclusions!
      Can you explain - please - please - what you are trying to say.

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    6. "According to Father Kieran O’Shea, "In 1847 alone, at least thirty-six priests died in Ireland from Famine related disease, sixteen of them during the month of May." The Kerry Examiner reported the obituaries of Father Jeremiah Falvey, curate Patrick Tuohy, Reverend Thomas Enright, and Reverend Michael Devine. The Kerry Evening Post reported the death of Reverend John Gallivan from fever. The Tralee Chronicle reported the death of Fr John O’Donoghue, and noted that "at the present moment, in this diocese, there are no less than eight Roman Catholic Clergymen on the bed of fever, contracted during their ministrations. . . . All this great work by the (Presentation) nuns took its toll on their health. Worn out by sheer exhaustion, many caught fever and some died. Amongst those who paid the supreme sacrifice were: Sisters Angela Love, Mary Joseph O'Kane, Philomena Moriarty, Ignatius Martin in Listowel; (and) Sister Catherine Vize, aged 27, Castleisland. " (The Kerry Archeological and Historical Society: The Famine in Kerry, pp.28 and 57)"

      http://www.irishhungermartyrs.org/the_evidence.html#DOCUMENTATION OF CLERGY DEATHS

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  4. I have always maintained that the R C church has turned everything into a Mass. This is not to take from the centrality of Eucharist. Many people see mass as a sticking plaster to cure all ills(ex opere operato?) with engaging with the full dynamic of the Christian experience. i spent hours in schools and never got anything next nor near boyo above. A chaplain needs to have counselling/community skills at least as well as being able to perform sacramental duties if required That being said Ordination is not a prerequisite for chaplaincy

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    Replies
    1. MourneManMichael12 April 2016 at 22:39

      Sean, you make a very relevant point about the need for a chaplain to have counselling skills. While some clerics appointed as chaplains may have such skills instinctively, and others may have acquired them from experience, the fact that counselling skills are essentially non prescriptive is very at odds with the traditional very prescriptive nature of the clerical training and mindset, and the reality that seminary training, certainly in my day, contained absolutely no element of counselling awareness or skills, and was solely based on the sacramental duties you mention. And again, as you rightly mention, a Roman collar does not automatically impart counselling skills.
      The prescriptive element of RC clerical training regularly shows itself in these blogs by dogmatic assertions.
      MMM

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  5. The chaplain, of course, does far more than just say Mass. He is always available to the students as a counsellor and advisor.

    His role is very important given the normal and added stresses and strains of student life. It is most disingenuous to give the impression that he is paid a huge amount just to say Mass.

    Furthermore, non-practicing Belfast Accountant, a CC in D&C is paid £1250 per month. PP's get slightly more (not sure how much). I'm not sure what the bishop gets but I am pretty certain it is NOT £120,000 per annum!

    For priests, people will (though not always) give an offering for Masses, baptisms, funerals, etc. A priest may only keep for his own use one stipend per day (it can range from £5-$20 usually). Anyone wanting to make lots of money in their chosen life path should not consider the priesthood.

    Scripture says: "the labourer deserves his wages" and "you must not muzzle the ox when he is treading out the corn".

    Priests, like everyone else, are entitled to a decent wage and a decent standard of living. They should live simply and without ostentation or luxury.

    Priest.

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    Replies
    1. CC in Down and Connor - £1250 per month - thats £15,000 per annum.

      Any other benefits in kind - house, meals, telephone, car, car insurance, car service, interest free car loan etc?

      If he got the minimum Mas offering of £5 that would be £1825 per annum bringing him to £18,825 per annum but if he got £20 that would take him to £22,300 per annum.

      Does he pay tax out of this?

      How many families have £428 a week to live on?

      We do not know Bishop Treanor's salary but we do know that he spent between £1 million and £4 million on renovating his house. The certainty of this sum is caused by Bishop Treanor's refusal to tell us how much he spent.

      If a chaplain got E 55,000 a year that would being him in
      E 1057 a week or Stg £ 845 a week. I wish I had that!

      I would call a Euro 55,000 a year salary reasonably ostentatious and luxurious! - especially for a man who is supposed to be following the Jesus of Nazareth "who had no where to lay his head".

      Struggling Hubby / Dad Bangor.

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    2. In reply to Struggling Dad/Hubby; House and phone is paid for by the parish/diocese. Everything else we pay for ourselves. And yes, we pay taxes. Priest

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    3. You do like fk . You get ur heating electricity and Internet paid for also

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  6. Funding a Roman Catholic Church in Nineteenth-Century Ireland
    Brendan Grimes
    Architectural History
    Vol. 52 (2009), pp. 147-168
    Published by: SAHGB Publications Limited
    Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/20623026
    Page Count: 22

    "Bewteen 1790 and 1847 2,000 Catholic churches were built in Ireland".

    The Great Famine was from 1845 to 1852

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    Replies
    1. Didn't the British Government pay for the building of the Catholic seminary of Maynooth in the late 18th century?

      They've been taking state money since the time of Constantine.

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    2. Thank you!
      I was led to believe that the famine years were from 1845-1849. There was continuing devastation caused by Typhoid and Yellow Fever over the next SEVERAL years and beyond - stand to be corrected!

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  7. If a priest or a bishop is receiving purely church money it is nobody's business except the church members and the tax man.

    However, if priests or bishops are getting state or tax payers money we are all entitled to know.

    Did Bishop Treanor not say that he received some £300,000 of public money towards renovating his palace.

    Why should the tax payer pay for a palace for Bishop Treanor?

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  8. The real test is, do you have money or does money have you? There is nothing wrong with money; it is the ‘love’ of money that is the root of all kinds of evil. People who seek for selfish motives, profit; that seek for selfish motives, gain; those who think that ‘godliness is gain’, are only deceiving themselves. (1 Tim 6: 6-10).
    In the middle ages the teaching arose that if you were a godly person you would have money. This was suppressed, so in order to follow their religious beliefs, the early fathers of this doctrine that godliness was profit and that you would be able to trade freely, emigrated to America. When those Pilgrim Fathers came over to America they did not start Churches, what they did was they set up ‘trading companies’ to practise what they believed. They believed that as a sign of your godliness you would profit financially. Unfortunately this ‘prosperity’ gospel is still being pushed around today, that if you have faith, then you are going to be financially prosperous. Now, that is fine ‘if’ God wants you to prosper that way. But the test of universal truth is that it must be accepted universally in every nation, to every people, to every creed and to every race. If you go around and talk about prosperity as it being taught today and go to Russia or go to China where, when you come to Christ you become a pauper and are left destitute. You talk to these people about prosperity and godliness being linked together and they will mock you and laugh in your face, because universal truth can only be preached universally. ‘We brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it; but as long as we have food and clothing, let us be content with that’. (1 Tim 6:7-8)

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  9. The word Canaanite means: Trader or merchant. This is the spirit that tries to bring us low, by trade or traffic and it deals with our money. This trading spirit was the cause of Israel’s 1st defeat after Jericho.
    You see, there are things, which God has said that we are not to touch. And that is represented by the Babylonian robe or garment. That’s a representation of the world. You could put it like this, touch not; taste not and handle not. The world has nothing to offer us except pollution and defilement.
    I have never paid any priest for saying a Mass. You can’t buy your salvation, you can’t buy your healing, you can’t buy your righteousness, they are all gifts from God.
    The Scriptures are quite clear about times for us to receive money and about times for us not to receive money. There are times to accept gifts and there are times not to accept gifts. You have to use the wisdom of God when receiving gifts and money for your ministry. If we try to make money outside the season of the Lord than we can end up as spiritual lepers like Gehazi the servant of Elisha.

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  10. Like everything else when it comes to church business the subject of pay for clergy is a nightmare of multiple facets and hidden agendas. The Protestant churches to their credit tend to be much more transparent and will often publish pay scales for clergy.
    Catholic diocesan clergy get an allowance from the diocese. The saying that the religious vow poverty but the diocesan clergy live it has recently been quoted here, and is often literally true if a priest has no money of his own and/or is in a poor parish. However, he can keep any money of his own and gifts in money or in kind, so his actual situation can be unpredictable. That said, I cannot believe many priests would be looking in their cupboards and have nothing to eat at the end of the month ; in reality their standard of living is upper middle class.
    Pat, you are in a category of your own, since you have no sponsorship from a church at all.
    The religious are in a totally different position. Some of the more conservative orders will see the majority of their members rarely or ever handling money, and required to hand in gifts. If they want the community to buy something they would have to ask for it and it would certainly be communal.
    The really big get out is in the orders which have revised their approach to poverty since Vatican 2. Communally they will often have relatively large resources and their members will have a living standard higher than a lot of people could afford. If they are in specific ministries they may have allowances and so on. There will often be an expectation to reflect on how their lifestyle reflects their vow of poverty, but the catch is that you can kid yourself you are living in poverty if the cars, clothes, holidays and dinners can be attributed to the community. Of course the system is also open to abuse because legally there is nothing to prevent a religious having a bank account. When the disgraced former abbot of Ealing abbey was being chased by the police he was last seen emptying a bank account in Rome of money supposedly left him by family, which was never put in the community coffer.
    In reality hospital and universities chaplaincy jobs are highly sought by non-Catholic clergy because they are higher paid than most roles and they can keep the salary.

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    Replies
    1. I have often been surprised by finding religious priests and nuns with vows of poverty having very healthy bank accounts and credit and debit cards in their pockets. Also they always seemed to have cars which technically belong to the community and not have to worry about costs of insurance, servicing etc.

      I know and have known priests in Down and Connor who gamble large sums regularly on horses. The late Fr Vincent McKinley lost £2,000 on an afternoon's horse racing around 1980. Some priests have a bookie's telephone account which they settle monthly.

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    2. A lot of priests like V McK were from wealthy backgrounds. They had money to throw about like. This priest - me - has no bookie's telephone account. I have no property or shares nor any other income whatsoever than what I receive once a month. I pay my bills and live out of that wage. I rarely have more than £2000 in my account. I am not complaining. I am well off.

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  11. Many priest are very well educated people who would be capable of earning substantially more in in the lay world. they elect to live a life that has requires many sacrifices including those of family life and partnership. They are entitled to some foibles and certainly to live in a way that demonstrates respect for their position in the parish.

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    Replies
    1. MourneManMichael13 April 2016 at 20:06

      "Very well educated people" you say.
      Perhaps you've not read posts I made in the past in which I pointed out just how poorly and narrowly "educated" many priests actually are.
      Yes, there are exceptions, perhaps those, like +Pat who furthered their education by undertaking extra tertiary studies in academic settings and disciplines outside the narrow spectrum of theology, philosophy and sacramental duties. And they are to be congratulated.
      But there still remain many, especally of the older generation, who simply left secondary school to enter a seminary, did the standard training before ordination, and were then released into pastoral roles. Being then perceived by parishoners as "educated", they have coasted along without further development always respectfully and reverentially deferred to.
      So we've regularly seen catholic PPs managing parish funds and affairs abysmally, without acknowledging, seeking, or paying any heed to advice from their much better qualified accountant, soliciter and management parishoners.
      I speak from the experience of realising how poorly educated I was from six seminary years only after further Uni studies in Scotland and England.
      MMM

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    2. MMM,
      I see little evidence of the fruits of Bishop Buckley's education if he thinks that Chaplains get 49,000 for saying Mass only - bloggers above have shown that - time-wise - Mass is a fractional element of what they do.
      Pip

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