Wednesday, 3 August 2016

MAYNOOTH MELTDOWN DEEPENS

MAYNOOTH MELTDOWN

Bishops leave Martin isolated in split over Maynooth 'gay culture'

A series of senior bishops have backed the college amid allegations of a "gay culture" in St Patrick's College. Archbishop Martin has withdrawn his trainee priests from Maynooth due to what he described as allegations of a "homosexual, gay culture, that students are using an app called Grindr, a gay dating app".



However, the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland will continue to send trainee priests to Maynooth. A spokesman for Archbishop of Armagh Eamon Martin, the Primate of All Ireland, told the Irish Independent the Archdiocese was "extremely grateful to St Patrick's College, Maynooth, for the spiritual, human, pastoral and academic formation that he received there".

Archbishop of Cashel and Emly Kieran O'Reilly also says he will send seminarians to Maynooth.

Once again, the national seminary in Maynooth, which has been educating men for the catholic priesthood since 1795, finds itself mired in scandal.

There are currently approximately 80 men studying for the priesthood at Maynooth.
For most of its recent history, Maynooth comprised three colleges in one: the national seminary; St Patrick's College, a pontifical university; and NUI Maynooth, a secular college.
Under the 1997 Universities Act, the seminary and pontifical college formally split from NUIM, giving it greater autonomy as a secular university.
It was Monsignor Micheál Ledwith, who, in his final year as president of Maynooth, oversaw that separation.
A priest of the diocese of Ferns, Ledwith was first appointed a lecturer in theology at St Patrick's College in 1977.

LEDWITH

At just 44, he was made college president. Seen as a future bishop, he was even tipped for the archdiocese of Dublin, before a number of abuse allegations brought his star tumbling to earth.
Ledwith has always denied the allegations.
In a setback for Maynooth, allegations that Ledwith had abused a child exploded just as it was about to launch its bicentenary celebrations and resulted in the president resigning six months early.
It later emerged that as early as 1983-84, Fr Gerard McGinnity, then a senior dean in Maynooth, had made complaints about Ledwith to seven bishops.
The Ferns Report in 2005 noted that the complaints related to alleged homosexual "orientation and propensity" but did not specify any improper conduct.
The then Bishop of Galway, Dr Eamon Casey, conducted a private investigation but as no seminarian came forward to make a complaint, the matter was dropped.
Fr McGinnity was pressured into stepping down from his position while Mgr Ledwith's appointment as president went ahead.
Maynooth again came under scrutiny in 2010, when Pope Benedict XVI ordered an Apostolic Visitation of the Irish Church including an investigation of all Irish seminaries, and St Patrick's College, Maynooth in particular.

As recently as 2011, reports circulated in the Catholic press in Ireland that plans were afoot to close Maynooth as a seminary and move all of the country's trainee priests to the other seminary, which the Irish church operates in Rome.
The decision by one trustee, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, to move his seminarians out of Maynooth this autumn to the Irish College in Rome is causing many to speculate once again about Maynooth's future.

A day after the Irish Independent reported the story of a man who made allegations of inappropriate behaviour at the seminary, he approached gardaí to make a preliminary statement about alleged harassment.
"They certainly felt that a couple of isolated incidents which I mentioned did warrant investigation by them, and would be deemed sexual assault," he said.


"I will be meeting them next week in person to provide a written statement concerning the above."
Later that day, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin described the atmosphere in the National Seminary in Maynooth as "poisonous".
He was speaking on radio yesterday following his decision to pull his trainee priests from Maynooth and send them to Rome instead.

Seminarians currently studying in Maynooth have reportedly resorted to anonymous letters in order to bring their concerns to the attention of the bishops and seminary hierarchy.
Now their allegations have been given a much greater platform with the controversial decision made by Archbishop Martin.

Yesterday, the president of Maynooth, Monsignor Hugh Connolly, moved to emphasise that amid anonymous allegations and claims on blogs, due process has to be adhered to and allegations must be investigated in a thorough and facts-based way.
What the current crisis shows is that the seminary has lost the trust of its student priests who don't feel that the complaints procedure put in place in the wake of the McCullough Report is working for them.

Archbishop Martin claimed he had offered to provide an independent person who whistleblowers could approach with their concerns. However, the response to this offer was the publication of more anonymous letters.
He is clearly frustrated - but so are those making the anonymous complaints. An impartial forum needs to be established that has sufficient distance from the seminary and the bishops to make seminarians and staff feel comfortable.

Meanwhile, the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP), usually one of the most trenchant critics of the hierarchy, issued a statement in defence of Maynooth.
Describing those behind the complaints as either conservative commentators who consistently criticise Maynooth for not facilitating the concerns of traditional candidates, or disgruntled ex-seminarians who were deemed unsuitable for priesthood by the seminary, they appear to find the allegations unsound.
They are concerned that "right-wing commentators who are unhappy with the focus on the theology of the Second Vatican Council" are behind these blogs that "consistently attack the Catholic Church".
But perhaps that is too facile. The type of men currently attracted to the priesthood tend to be serious and conservative and would have little truck with the agenda of the ACP. So the fact that some of them are indulging in inappropriate behaviour suggests that something is seriously wrong with the current formation programme.
One thing the ACP is correct on is that "it is important that the highest standards prevail in Maynooth".The damage this controversy will do to Maynooth is only exceeded by the damage it will do to an increasingly disillusioned Catholic faithful, wondering just how many more scandals the Church can withstand.
COMMENTS:

AlanJoe1
Not for the first time Archbishop Martin finds himself isolated while others take the ostrich approach.
Maynooth has been known as 'The Pink Palace' for generations. Gay activity is embedded in the entire psyche. To deny the existence of a huge gay sub culture in the church and not just Maynooth does not mean that the issue is not there.

tototo
@Mosaic216 Most people could care less, however if you are a priest or training to be a priest, are you not supposed to be heading for a life of celibacy... and take into account the long held views on gay people by the Catholic Church. Its hypocrisy of the highest order.

celticlofts
Isn't compassion one of the tenets espoused by the Catholic Church or is this another example of do as we say not as we do? I don't care one iota if my priest is gay or straight or even a man or a woman. I'm not looking for a date. If the need presented itself I would like to think that I could avail of their council, their wisdom and yes even their compassion, but I would also be discerning because I know priests, just like the rest of us, are only human. Some, God love them, have a distinct lack of those attributes as Dr Martin has clearly demonstrated. 


Archbishops row over Maynooth after ‘gay subculture’ claims


Clear division has emerged between the Catholic archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin and his fellow archbishops over the suitability of St Patrick’s College Maynooth for training priests.
It came as the authorities at Maynooth said they have “has no concrete or credible evidence of the existence of any alleged ‘active gay subculture’”.



On Monday Archbishop Martin, a trustee at the college, said he had decided not to send Dublin seminarians to Maynooth any longer due to “an atmosphere of strange goings-on there”.

“It seems like a quarrelsome place with anonymous letters being sent around. I don’t think this is a good place for students,” Archbishop Martin said.
Dublin seminarians would go to the Irish College in Rome instead, he said.
However, in response to queries from The Irish Times, the three other archbishop trustees at Maynooth disagreed.

Catholic primate Archbishop Éamon Martin, Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary, and Archbishop of Cashel Kieran O’Reilly all intend to continue sending seminarians to Maynooth.

So too do the bishops of Elphin, Cork and Ross, Down and Connor, Ardaghand ClonmacnoiseCloyneKildare and Leighlin, ClonfertClogher, andKillala.

The offices of all diocesan bishops were emailed. Some bishops are away with replies yet to be received from others.

St Patrick’s College Maynooth yesterday said it shared “the concern” of Archbishop Martin about the “poisonous atmosphere” created by anonymous correspondence and blogs.

It encouraged people “with specific concerns to report them appropriately”.
It follows anonymous allegations being circulated about seminarian activities in Maynooth, including that some had been using a gay dating app.

“As outlined clearly in the Seminary Rule, any student involved or promoting such behaviour would be asked to leave the seminary formation programme,” it said.

Misbehaviour

Anonymous correspondence “did not allege misbehaviour by any staff member” at the college, it said.

A former Maynooth seminarian has in recent days made a complaint to the Garda in Dublin about alleged sexual harassment at the college between 2007 and 2009.

In relation to that case, the college said an “independent panel did not find any prima facie case to be answered”.
The statement said it was “not true that seminarians are prohibited from reporting misbehaviour or concerns”.

As to what it was proposed to do to address the controversy, the statement said it “has been investigated and a report presented to the trustees”.





Maynooth’s opaque culture major part of problem
Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is clearly frustrated with history of controversy
about 9 hours ago



Of Maynooth, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said:“I don’t think this is a good place for students .” Photograph: Cyril Byrne
ail App

‘The closed strange world of seminaries,’ was how Archbishop Diarmuid Martin put it yesterday, when speaking of the latestMaynooth crisis. There is no doubt that the opaque culture of such institutions has contributed greatly to the latest controversy besetting Ireland’s national seminary.

“Maynooth is 200 years old. It has a long tradition and a proud tradition but I feel that for the situation in Dublin we probably need a different way in the long term,” the archbishop said.

O tempora! O mores! (Oh the times! Oh the customs!) It is already clear, whatever the reaction of other bishops, that nothing can be the same again if Maynooth is to retain the confidence of Irish Catholics.

When a trustee at Maynooth such as Archbishop Diarmuid Martin publicly articulates in such forthright terms his anxieties about what has been going on there, action will be forced on his fellow trustee archbishops and bishops to act. But venerable institutions are notoriously difficult to change, as has been seen with the Catholic Church itself. Old customs/practices die very hard.

In 2002 this newspaper disclosed how a senior dean at Maynooth, Fr Gerard McGinnity, had his career destroyed. Acting as whistleblower on behalf of senior seminarians in 1983/84, he alerted trustee bishops at St Patrick’s College to allegedly inappropriate behaviour involving then college vice-president Msgr Micheál Ledwith and younger seminarians . Msgr Ledwith went on to become president but resigned suddenly in 1994. In 2002 a statement from the bishops admitted Msgr Ledwith had made a private settlement with a minor who claimed he was sexually abused by him.

In 1984 Fr McGinnity was sent on sabbatical to Rome before being appointed to a rural parish in the North. He was never allowed hold another post in Maynooth while the man whose alleged activities he attempted to expose was promoted to one of the most senior positions in the Irish Catholic church.
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There is an uneasy parallel between how the Maynooth authorities dealt with Fr McGinnity and how another whistleblower was dealt with there more recently. It is one of the main stories behind the current crisis. In this instance a seminarian, and late vocation, made allegations of ongoing sexual harassment by an adult at the college between his entering in 2007 and 2009, when he made the complaint.

Aggrieved
An internal inquiry found his allegations unproven and he was invited by college authorities to move on and continue with his studies. He has told The Irish Times that he felt so aggrieved at the process of the inquiry and its finding, that he left Maynooth depressed and disillusioned. He has since married. He further alleged that after he left the college a seminarian who witnessed an incident of his alleged harassment and four others who were friends of his at Maynooth, also left following dealings with authorities.
Serious questions were also raised about the fairness of a more recent inquiry which led to another seminarian’s dismissal. Last April/May he faced bully- ing complaints by two fellow seminarians he allegedly had found in bed together.
Unrelated to the allegations above, and the recent allegations of sexual misconduct, two senior departures also added to the disquiet. These included the unexpected resignation of Fr David Marsden, vocational growth counsellor, in June which was said to be related chiefly to his concerns about theological formation. This became an issue last year when six seminarians were advised to take time out as they were deemed too theologically rigid/conservative. Three were allowed continue after their bishops’ intervention.
In June it also emerged that president Msgr Hugh Connolly was granted leave of absence for study purposes. What made this seem odd was its timing, asMsgr Connolly is due to end his term as president next year. It was emphasised that his going on sabbatical was unrelated to recent events and he would continue his duties as president into 2017 when, at the conclusion of his sabbatical, he would return as professor of moral theology.
Clearly, cumulatively, this has all proven too much for Archbishop Diarmuid Martin which, combined with his own frustrated attempts to have something done about it all, would appear to have prompted his decision to send future Dublin seminarians to the Irish College in Rome. Of Maynooth he said:“I don’t think this is a good place for students .”

‘Anti-ecclesial bias’

An irony in this is that the Irish College in Rome was eviscerated by the Cardinal Archbishop of New York Timothy Dolan when he led an apostolic visitation in 2011. In his report, leaked to The Irish Times , he found the college had an “anti-ecclesial bias” in theological formation; it was not orthodox enough. He described as injustice a perception that the Rome college had a reputation as “gay-friendly”. Detailing four alleged incidents, he found no evidence “of rampant immorality, or a homosexual subculture”. Since then all priests/staff at the Irish College in Rome in 2011 have been replaced.
The cardinal’s report on Maynooth was never published or leaked but a recommendation in a published summary was that “the seminary buildings be exclusively for seminarians of the local church” and it was said he was concerned about theological formation there . In January 2012 doors were installed at St Patrick’s College separating seminarians’ living quarters from the rest of the campus and a new entrance was constructed. A separate dining room was set up for seminarians.

Behind all of this lie ongoing concerns at the financial viability of the two seminaries at Maynooth and Rome. In March 2011 Msgr Connolly denied speculation that Maynooth was to close. In 2012 Archbishop Diarmuid Martin raised concerns about the future of the Irish College in Rome, to which Dublin priest Msgr Ciaran O’Carroll had just been appointed rector.
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“The big question the visitation never addressed was how can Ireland at the moment maintain two seminaries,” Archbishop Martin told The Irish Timesthen. “Where are we going to get the students for it? If it’s going to be a vibrant seminary then you need the candidates.”





Trainee Catholic priests are 'hooking up using gay dating app Grindr at Ireland's top seminary' 

·         Priests at St Patrick's College in Maynooth were allegedly using Grindr
·          Dublin's archbishop said the app 'fostered promiscuous sexuality'
·         Said that seminary is dismissing people who make gay dating claims 
·         The church leader will send students to an Irish college in Rome instead






PUBLISHED: 20:32, 2 August 2016 UPDATED: 01:56, 3 August 2016

Trainee Catholic priests have been meeting up using the gay dating app Grindr at Ireland's top seminary, it has been claimed. 

Dublin's archbishop Dr Diarmuid Martin said he was 'somewhat unhappy' about rumours that students at St Patrick's College in Maynooth were using the app, which he claimed 'fostered promiscuous sexuality'.

The church leader will boycott the centuries-old college - which is just 16 miles from the Irish capital - and send students to a school in Rome instead. 

+3
Dublin's archbishop Dr Diarmuid Martin (pictured) has confirmed he will stop sending trainee priests to Ireland's main Catholic college amid claims of a gay dating culture there

The most senior Catholic in the Irish Republic said he made the decision some months ago because of an 'atmosphere that was growing in Maynooth' exposed through anonymous accusations in letters and online blogs.

He said: 'There are allegations on different sides.

'One is that there is a homosexual, a gay culture, that students have been using an app called Grindr, which is a gay dating app, which would be inappropriate for seminarians, not just because they are trained to be celibate priests but because an app like that is something which would be fostering promiscuous sexuality, which is certainly not in any way the mature vision of sexuality one would expect a priest to understand.'

Claims were made that the seminary were dismissing anyone who tried to make an allegation about a gay culture there.

+3
Dr Diarmuid Martin said he was 'somewhat unhappy' about rumours that students at St Patrick's College in Maynooth (pictured) have been using gay dating app Grindr, which he believed 'fostered promiscuous sexuality'

Dr Martin told RTE: 'I thought a quarrelsome attitude of that kind was not the healthiest place for my students to be and I decided to send them to the Irish Pontifical College (in Rome).'

Founded in 1795, Maynooth College was once the largest seminary in the world.

It was built to train 500 trainee Catholic priests every year but numbers have nosedived to about 60 in recent years with a fall-off in vocations.

While Dr Martin has decided to send student priests from the Dublin Archdiocese overseas instead, he insisted he was not ordering other Bishops to do likewise.

However, the Archbishop said a 'whole series of anonymous allegations' were being circulated about goings-on at the Maynooth seminary.

While 'some material has resulted to be true', he added that it was impossible to fairly investigate and carry out due process while those making claims remained anonymous.
+3
The most senior Catholic in the Irish Republic will boycott the centuries old college - just 16 miles from the Irish capital - in favour of the Irish Pontifical College in Rome (pictured)

Efforts by him to recruit an independent person who could deal with whistleblower complaints were met with 'simply more anonymous letters' he said.

'A culture of anonymous letters is poisonous and until that is cleared up I would be happier sending my students elsewhere,' he added.

Dr Martin said authorities at Maynooth needed to find a way people could come forward with 'solid, hard evidence'.

The senior catholic leader also criticised the 'comfortable' regime at the seminary.


'The people have their breakfast, dinner and tea served up to them,' he said


PAT SAYS:

Today we see the COWBOYS – the Irish Bishops and the Association of Catholic Priests CIRCLING THE WAGONS.


IRISH BISHOPS AND ACP - ASSOCIATION OF CAT LICKS PRIESTS


The ACP are covering up for all their priest members who are shagging women and men!

I know many of their names!

Soundbites ! Soundbites ! Soundbites !

No one believes you - YOU DISHONEST, COWARDLY COWBOYS

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin is the only prophet and decent bishop in the country.


GERONIMO MARTIN


Diarmuid Martin is the GERONIMO !

He has the COWBOYS ON THE RUN !!!!!


Lets all support Diarmuid Martin and put the Catholic Church Cowboys to SHAME !!!

Monsignor Hugh Cowboy Connolly - Maynooth President

40 comments:

  1. MourneManMichael3 August 2016 at 10:51

    While I acknowledge the concerns, I'm beginning to find the reporting here tediously repetitive.
    Am I the only one?
    MMM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. MMM, I understand. But this is very important to many of us.

      If we do not keep hitting the nail we will not drive it home.

      Be patient with us....please.

      Delete
    2. It would help if you were to post just the links to the articles with your own comments/analysis.

      It is, indeed, tedious scrolling down through all these articles which we have read already, in the IT, Indo, etc.

      Delete
    3. Not everyone can read those papers for themselves. A bit of scrolling is hardly a days work!

      Delete
  2. How could any balanced, mature, genuine man who is serious about pursuing a vocation to the priesthood even contemplate going to Maynooth? The place has degenerated into a glorified hetero-/homo- brothel!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No decent man would want to go there to the UNIVERSITY FOR CATHOLIC COWBOYS.

      Delete
    2. I was at Maynooth some twenty years ago towards the end of the Ledwith era. After Casey the numbers dropped below 200 for the first time since 1800. The gay priests around the country seemed to be the only ones successfully recruiting. One in five of the seminarians were actively gay and there really was a pink corridor where apparently you could expect to wake up every morning feeling a new man.
      Seminarians who were affronted by the more brazen sometimes complained. They were received with kindness and compassion, welcomed to the real world and given assurances that something would be done. "We can't, of course, send him away for THAT but we'll think of something else."
      None of this was much of a secret but you didn't have to know about it if you didn't want to. I knew some of the leading gays, found them nice people and was grateful for the vibes they sent me that I was not one of them. As Pope Francis might say, "Who am I to judge?"

      Delete
  3. Msgr Connolly says there is a healthy, wholesome atmosphere in Maynooth. Too late for spin.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I am very surprised Pat that your name has not come up in any of the coverage of Maynooth.Could be one of the reasons the Cowboys are so scared to rock the boat.They would hate to admit that you were right and they are wrong.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They talk about "anti catholic bloggers" :-)

      Delete
    2. I have spent the last week advising journalists and media.

      Channel 4 news are in Maynooth today as we speak.

      Delete
    3. PS: Passengers on a cruise ship are not often aware of the man in the engine room below deck :-)

      Delete
    4. I must say you have steered this ship very well so far. Keep up the good work

      Delete
    5. I agree. I admire your courage. 'Don't be afraid of being outnumbered. Eagles fly alone, while pigeons flock together.'

      Delete
  5. They say your anti catholic. These Bishops (apart from Diarmuid martin) are cowards who will destroy the church with more cover ups.They are the ones who are anti catholic. No more cover up! The gays are well known. There will be no peace in maynooth until every single one of them are removed.

    Any honest seminarian should protest with vama in September until these active gay seminarians are removed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And I am NOT anti Catholic. I have been a Catholic for 64 years.

      I have been a Catholic priest for 40 years.

      I have been a Catholic bishop (albeit not recognised in Canon Law) for 18 years.

      I pray everyday.

      I say Mass every day.

      I minister every day.

      I am anti CATHOLIC ABUSE (all kinds) and anti CATHOLIC COVER UPS

      Delete
  6. Pat speaking to Ray D'Arcy on Radio1 yesterday I recommended your blog to the listeners. You had flagged much of this "news" weeks ago.
    Iggy O Donovan

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you Iggy.

      We all want only what is best for the seminarians and the People of God.

      I think Diarmuid Martin is the onlr bishop with integrity on this issue.

      This problem has been boiling and brewing for years.

      Pity the men in hats only act when forced to :-(

      Pat

      Delete
  7. Mark Dooley on Liveline now

    ReplyDelete
  8. Well Pat The sh*t has hit the fan. I hope truth will prevail and your blog has helped in bringing much to light

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sean, as we speak the Church spin doctors are at their work - denying, lying, accusing, deflecting, etc

      Delete
    2. Would you believe I got a call from Sligo asking if I wanted to comment. I could honestly say I never -thank God- experienced anything inappropriate in my training or from my colleagues. In relation to Maynooth I commented that years ago the Toyota Hiace was the preferred mode of transport for many Travellers. All these Travellers cant be wrong so the Hiace must have been a good van. Applied to Maynooth, all these allegations must have some semblance of truth somewhere.It remains for wrongdoers to be identified, tried under due process and brought to book if guilty. Whistleblowers need to be protected. Should somebody bring a false allegation they also need to be named and shamed. I wondered as well about the female side of the equation. How have Sisters/Nuns fared out in their training environments

      Delete
    3. Yes, they are! The Association of Catholic Priests 'describing those behind the complaints as either conservative commentators who consistently criticise Maynooth for not facilitating the concerns of traditional candidates, or disgruntled ex-seminarians who were deemed unsuitable for priesthood by the seminary, they appear to find the allegations unsound.' It seems to me as a concerned and intelligent layperson that ACP and the 'circling the wagons Bishops' want the Church to be inclusive enough to encompass priests and seminarians who are heterosexually or homosexually 'non celibate', but NOT inclusive enough for those who lean towards the more traditional rites or beliefs of the Church. These traditional candidates [and / or SUPPOSEDLY disgruntled ex-seminarians - [big time Spin!]] referred to by ACP, are obviously throwing up a reflection that ACP and the Bishops don't want to see!! Why don't they want to see it???

      Delete
  9. Sounds like Archbishop Diarmuid Martin's seminarians are just jumping from the frying pan into the fire if a previous post here on the Irish College in Rome three years ago is anything to go by.

    http://wisecatholic.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/irish-college-rome-aka-pink-palace.html

    ReplyDelete
  10. I read that Fr Brendan Hoban said the National Seminary in Maynooth could be extremely damaged by Archbishop Matin's move. WTF???? - Is this man for real? Has he lost all commonsense? Maynooth has been damaged by those who are up to the activities currently being discussed and those that happened in the past - don't hear him giving out about the treatment of Fr Gerard McGinnity in 1984!!! Clearly Fr Hoban has nothing useful to say so he should just stay quiet!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Pat, these seminarians who engaged in homosexual activity in maynooth, have literally destroyed the Irish church. They have to repent both privately in confession to God and publicly because other innocent men were effected. Do people know who the guilty parties are pat? If yes can we get them professional help? What do you think Bishop?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sounds like the best help might be Truvada PrEP.

      Delete
    2. I suspect Grindr has, finally, destroyed the Irish Church.

      Delete
    3. Really?? You think THIS is what has destroyed the Irish church?

      Delete
    4. Yes, that and Ferns, Ryan and Murphy reports, of course.

      Delete
  12. 17:49 at issue here is the duplicity and deceit and ultimatley the crime and directionless moral compass arising from the warped disfunctional church leadership that we have. I dont see the situation being remedied without a night of the long knives. Otherwise our youth will continue to vote with their feet.

    Regards
    Rasputin

    ReplyDelete
  13. To conclude my earlier posting... only the man at the top can wield the sword to chop out this vile contagion. (The sword metaphor is from the Holy Koran this blog needs a more ecumenical balance!) Over to you Francie!
    Pat I take it that due to your difficult relations with Daly (known locally at the time as the weasle), you no longer have a hot line to our CEO in Rome?

    Regards
    Rasputin

    ReplyDelete
  14. Maynooth and more generally the seminary system is old wineskins formation. Maybe it needs to be more parish based, more experiential. Maybe mornings at the theological institute and afternoons in the cut and thrust of parish life. The student will live with an experienced priest to act as mentor. A counsellor has to undergo hundreds of hours of supervised clinical practice with real clients before they are accredited. Such a model also should be implemented in training future priests.More generally,perhaps the Holy Spirit is trying to break new ground in the Church. Mandatory celibacy is the totem which needs to be challenged. That's my belief. Is it serving the Church well presently? Perhaps it did so in the past, but today? The culture doesn't support it, not just in Western cultures but also in the developing world, be it South America or Africa. Biological and social science would suggest celibacy is only credibly lived by a tiny percentage of people and even then only voluntarily.

    ReplyDelete
  15. From Irish Independent - PUBLISHED 02/08/2016 | 02:30

    'The former trainee priest reported that .....
    "Within nine weeks of commencing formation, each seminarian is summoned by order by the president to enforce the signing of confidentiality agreements forbidding the disclosure of any activities - heard, seen or experienced - within the seminary, including disclosure to our families," he said.
    He claimed the compulsory agreements are "deceitfully presented to the fledgling and naive seminarian without prior warning, explanation or consultation".
    They are told they must be signed when presented, and the seminarian is given no choice or any opportunity for understanding or seeking advice on the agreement.'
    I find this even more worrying than the current drama about the homosexual undercurrent in Maynooth seminary. Presuming it's true it is very sinister ! This should be investigated too, I feel. I would love to know what Msgr. Connolly, Fr. Hoban, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, Archb. Eamonn Martin, formation team, think about this?? How would they justify this?? How could the obligatory signing of a confidentiality agreement by new seminarians lead to openness and accountability??
    Re. Maynooth Fr. Hoban ACP recently said "It seems extraordinary that attention is being given to moving deck chairs on the Titanic rather than getting to the issues that are important."
    I'm sure that Fr. Hoban ACP would agree that [i] explaining the rationale behind the President of Maynooth insisting that seminarians sign this compulsory confidentiality agreement and [ii] ending said practice, would be a very good place to start, a very important issue to clear up.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's easily cleared up. There is no such confidentiality agreement. The FACTS are appalling enough without introducing the red herrings of fiction.

      Delete
    2. Dear 07:04
      Would that things were that EASILY cleared up!! I cited my source [ ex seminarian talking to Indo. ] What is YOUR source? You seem very adamant that there is no such confidentiality agreement, and that it is fiction. You base this assertion on what exactly?? Is it just your opinion? I for one would still like to hear those mentioned above [ in comment 03/08 @ 21.50 ] address this question openly. Or maybe the Ballyfermot? priest who was speaking yesterday on on Joe Duffy and 'Tonight'- TV3 could address this issue for us next time he is on the airwaves? He seems to have some of the inside track, although in my opinion not unbiased !! In fairness none of us is unbiased. Maybe Mark Dooley or David Quinn would know about the truth or otherwise of the confidentiality claim? I am a truth seeker, and I AM NOT EASILY FOBBED OFF! I am trying to perceive the truth in a very murky situation.

      Delete
  16. 2:50 You must understand that to bring about change the strongest leverage that decent catholic civilians have to enforce change is to withdraw their money and the church system will wither allowing somthing proper to replace it.
    If you want to understand power....follow the money.

    Regards
    Rasputin

    ReplyDelete
  17. It was one of the topic on Liveline with Joe Duffy this afternoon.

    ReplyDelete
  18. All of this has the makings of a good movie script. Tom Hardy could play Pat if I can get him to wear the glasses. Only Brendan Gleason could do Dermot Martin (a man of stature), but at a loss as to who will play Eammo the blouse and Timmo so throwing this open to to the floor!

    Rasputin

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dame Judy Dench to play Eamy Martin

      Christopher Biggins as Timmo

      Justin Bieber as a harassed young seminarist.

      Shrek to play King Puck.

      Matt Lucas as the creepy and inquisitive Dean.

      Fanny Mullaney as herself.

      Delete