Friday, 9 September 2016

MAYNOOTH - THE MORAL CONTEXT

MAYNOOTH - THE MORAL CONTEXT


EVERY SEMINARIAN entering Maynooth these days knows what the Roman Catholic teaching on sexuality and homosexuality is.

The Roman Catholic Religion teaches that sex is only allowed inside the context of marriage and must be open to reproduction.

It also believes that homosexual acts are "gravely disordered" and are mortal sins.

If you enter Maynooth as a seminarian knowing these teachings and intend to be sexually active as a seminarian and a priest you are entering Maynooth under FALSE PRETENCES! 

Just like if you enter into the RC Sacrament of Marriages intending not to have children you are entering that marriage under FALSE PRETENCES.

In fact if you did that the RC Religion would declare your marriage to be NULL and VOID.

That begs the question about those seminarians who take Holy Orders not intending to be CELIBATE. Are those Holy Orders null and void?

PERSONALLY, I DO NOT AGREE with the RC teachings on sex, celibacy and homosexuality.

I believe that CELIBACY should be OPTIONAL.

I believe that straight seminarians and priests should be allowed to take a wife.

I believe that gay seminarians and priests should be allowed to have a committed partner.

And I believe that most Catholics these days would agree with my views and beliefs.

BUT.............................

If you want to be an RC seminarians and priest, knowing their teachings, I believe that you have a moral responsibility to accept those teachings until they change. And, if you like you can be part of the campaign to change them.

However, to be a seminarian or priest within the RC system - and to pretend you are keeping the rules - but are really not - are you not being a HYPOCRITE?

How can you stand up at Mass on a Sunday and preach RC teachings and have a secret life?

And if you do - does that not make you a HYPOCRITE and a New Age PHARISEE. 

This was the big problem with people like BISHOP EAMON CASEY; FATHER MICHAEL CLEARY; FATHER RORY COYLE; FATHER BRENDAN SMYTH and so many others.

They were preaching one set of values and practising another.

And all over Ireland today there are straight priests in every diocese and religious order carrying on with women even though they have taken VOWS and PROMISES of celibacy and chastity.

And all over Ireland today there are gay priests in every diocese and religious order carrying on with men even though they have taken VOWS and PROMISES of celibacy and chastity.

And in MAYNOOTH you have seminarians carrying on with men and women even though they are supposed to be preparing for CELIBACY and CHASTITY.

I'm sorry My Friend, if you are one of those you are a HYPOCRITE and a PHARISEE!

If you do not agree with the teachings - or if you are not living them - do the decent, honest, God fearing thing - and GET OUT!

And none of your excuses about not being trained for anything else, or not wanting to leave until your Mammy dies, or feeling called to priesthood but not celibacy washes - in God's eyes, in people's eyes or in my eyes. 

There is NEVER a GOOD EXCUSE for not doing the RIGHT THING - or for continuing to do the WRONG THING!

Remember what Jesus said: "I WOULD WISH THAT YOU WERE EITHER HOT OR COLD. BUT YOU ARE LUKEWARM AND I WILL SPIT YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH"!

  I am a openly gay man. I am living in an open civil partnership. Every member of my congregation knows all about me. They CHOOSE to support me as I am - not as I am pretending to be. 

The RC RELIGION has put me out. Good! I am glad to be out. I am no longer a Roman Catholic. I am an Irish Catholic / Christian. 

People know who I am and where I stand. Some agree with me and some disagree with me or even hate me.

That's okay.

But I am myself. 

And so should you be. 

Years ago a nun gave me a poster of a little chick breaking out of an egg and it read: "JESUS SETS YOU FREE TO BECOME ALL YOU WERE MEANT TO BE".


ARE YOU PRETENDING TO BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC CHICKEN?


I might, in some people's eyes be an UGLY DUCKLING!


PAT AS A CLERICAL UGLY DUCKLING BEING CHASED OUT OF THE CHURCH BY CAHAL DALY

PAINTED BY EAMON MURPHY - CARRICKFERGUS - WHO DIED TRAGICALLY


But at least I am not pretending to be a Roman Catholic Chicken. 

What about you?

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ST MICHAEL'S CHURCH, ATHY










  • A GAY couple have resigned from leading a church choir after claims they came under intense pressure from a religious activist.

  • Married couple Jacinta O’Donnell and Geraldine Flanagan have been involved in the St Michael’s church choir in Athy, Co Kildare, for a number of years.
    However, the women claim that local church activist Anthony Murphy called for them to resign from their position in the church because they “contradict” the teachings of the Catholic Church.
    The bizarre story has engulfed social media after it unfolded on Kildare FM yesterday.
    The couple married in July and have been heavily involved in the adult and children’s choir at the church.
    But they have now left after claims that Mr Murphy sent a text calling for them to resign.
    The Kildare women say that although they have not been asked to resign by the clergy, they feared demonstrations would be held.
    “We felt the ordinary people who were just going along to their weekly mass didn’t need to be subjected to this,” Jacinta told her local radio station yesterday.
    “We thought we were going to slip away quietly in the background, that was our intention, as hurtful as it may have been.
    “Geraldine and I have only wanted to provide a music ministry to enhance the Eucharist and bringing this trouble to the church door would be futile.
    “We met with the adult choir because we felt they needed to be told the truth of the situation.”
    Church activist Mr Murphy said that he didn’t ask the couple to resign, but that he sent a text to Jacinta days after the couple’s wedding, to “do the right thing”.
    “The way the choir operates in Athy, Jacinta and Geraldine are positioned on the altar in the sanctuary, on a stage almost, sharing the stage with the parish priest,” said Mr Murphy.
    “You cannot have a contradiction where the church teaches one thing, and people ... right next to the Blessed Sacrament, contradict all of that teaching.
    “Nobody is trying to exclude Jacinta or Geraldine from the church. I’m certainly not doing that. This is about leadership positions within the church.”
    Parish priest Fr Frank McEvoy told KFM that he was supportive of the women, has spoken to them personally, and would not be commenting on the issue.

    PAT SAYS:

    I find this story very, very sad. 

    Here you have two ladies who are gifted in music and who obviously profess a Catholic / Christian faith who offered their local church and community - free of charge - their talents so that they could all worship God together as a loving community. 

    The ladies appear to be gay and are in a loving committed partnership which has been sealed by a civil legal ceremony.


    FATHER FRANK McEVOY PP - ATHY


    Their local Catholic parish priest - who is obviously an open and loving kind of man - Father Frank McEvoy not only authorised their music ministry but came to their defence when they came under fire. 

    We know that they are life partners. We do not know the full context of their relationship. We do not know if they have sex - not that it is any of our business. 

    We do not know if they "sin" in anyway. Only God knows that and if they do sin - in any way - they can do like we all do. They can confess and be forgiven. 


    ANTHONY MURPHY


    Apparently they received a text from parishioner Anthony Murphy who is a parishioner of Athy. Mr Murphy is also the editor of the Catholic Voice newspaper.

    I have met Anthony Murphy and I must say that I find him a very nice man. He and I would not agree on all matters to do with the Catholic Faith. But that's fine. I do not believe that Anthony is in anyway homophobic. 

    Of course he believes that Catholic people and Catholic priests and seminarians should follow the teachings of the Church he loves. He is very horrified and opposed to what is going on in Maynooth. 

    My understanding is that Jacinta and Geraldine invited people from the parish and parish choir to their civil marriage.


    We all know that the Catholic Religion is against gay marriage. 

    It might have been wiser if Jacinta and Geraldine were a little bit more discreet about issuing marriage invitations within the parish community - including to children. 

    I do hope it that it all resolves itself for the sake of all concerned.

    If Jacinta and Geraldine were nearer I would love to invite them to The Oratory.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    THOUGHT FOR TODAY:





    TODAY'S POEM:

    IF
    Rudyard Kipling

    IF you can keep your head when all about you 
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
    And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: 

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings 
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    ' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
    if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
    And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

    TODAY'S PROVOCATIVE PIC:





    UPDATE ON ATHY GAY STORY FROM JOURNAL.IE
    Gay married couple to return to church choir in Kildare after 'overwhelming' public support
    A local Catholic activist had objected to their presence.
    A MARRIED GAY couple have decided to return to their church choir in a Kildare town after receiving huge support from locals in the area.
    Jacinta O’Donnell and Geraldine Flanagan decided to stop singing at St Michael’s Catholic Church in Athy after a parishioner and Catholic activist objected to their prominent role.
    The pair got married over the summer and Jacinta O’Donnell says that she was subsequently contacted by Anthony Murphy who said that their involvement was not appropriate.
    Murphy is also the editor of the Catholic Voice newspaper.
    O’Donnell grew up in the local area and has been singing in the parish for many years. Speaking yesterday, she said that she and her wife had taken the “difficult decision” to step aside.
    The case has provoked huge interests and today O’Donnell has said that the support they’ve received has meant that they are to reverse their decision.
    “Since the interview on Kfm yesterday, both Geraldine and I have been overwhelmed and humbled by the public support we have received,” she said on Kildare Focus on Kfm before asking people not to direct abuse towards Murphy.
    We will never be able to sufficiently thank you, the people of our congregation, the people of our town Athy, for your love, your support and your prayers. Buoyed by all of this support, we as a choir will be returning to sing at 6pm Mass in Athy tomorrow evening.
    “It is our wish that the focus should now turn to the love of God and his mercy,” she added.
    Before their case came to widespread attention, O’Donnell yesterday explained why they had come to their initial decision.
    “Well we were mulling it over all summer when we were made aware of Anthony Murphy’s feelings and when we saw some of the very negative and I suppose hateful stuff that was on his Facebook page et cetera. And then I got the personal text message from him,” she told the the same station.
    Geraldine and I, the only things we’ve tried to do is provide a music ministry and the whole idea behind that was to enhance the Eucharist and bringing this trouble to the church would be really futile and would negate anything we’re trying to do. So we thought about it very hard and it was and still is a very difficult decision that we came to and we’re both very upset by it.
    The couple say that the parish parish priest Canon Frank McEvoy has been supportive of them but that Murphy also contacted him to voice his opposition.

    Speaking on the same programme, Murphy argued that the prominence of the couple on the altar during Mass presented a contradictory message to the church’s opposition to the marriage of gay people.
    “This is not about personalities,” Murphy told presenter Shane Beatty.
    Clearly, the way the choir operates in Athy, Jacinta and Geraldine are positioned on an altar in the sanctuary, in a stage almost, sharing the stage with the parish priest. You can not have contradiction where the church teaches one thing and people who are right next to the tabernacle, the blessed sacrament, contradict all of that teaching.
    Murphy denied that he actually asked the couple to step aside but that he suggested they do so. During the programme the presenter read back the text message he sent to Jacinta three days after the pair married. It read:
    Jacinta I trust following Wednesday you will have the decency to resign from the choirs and as Eucharistic minister in the same ways you had the decency to resign from the lay Dominicans. Anything else would be a contradiction and hypocrisy.
    Addressing words “contradiction and hypocrisy” that ended his message, Murphy said “well that is what it is”.

    47 comments:

    1. I'm surprised you believe Anthony Murphy not to be homophobic. Whether or not he suggested that those women resign, that was clearly his intention. He put pressure on them to go; effectively he bullied them out of their positions. I have no doubt that had the women not buckled under his pressure, Murphy would have stirred up opposition not just in that parish, but farther afield. Murphy personifies the intolerance that has so disfigured Catholic Church history. Remember Jesus did not expel Judas from the Twelve, even though he knew the darkness in his heart. Tolerating behaviour does not necessarily mean approval of it any more than Jesus' tolerating Judas meant approval of his intended betrayal. Murphy could and should have set a better example.

      ReplyDelete
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      1. MC totally respect your view. What you think of Mr Murphy's point that the ladies were insensitive in issuing wedding invites to choir including children? Apparently one little girl went home and asked her Mum: "Does that mean I can marry my friend when I get big"?

        Obviously Mr Murphy's views are not mine. I work all the time with LGBT musicians, priests etc

        Delete
      2. Bishop Pat, I wasn't aware of that incident involving the little girl; I admit it must have proved awkward for her parents. But then, it could, handled sensitively, have been an opportunity to educate the child in terms of inclusivity and tolerance...a lesson Murphy himself has yet to learn.

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      3. I agree that it was a chance to explain things to the little girl. But you know parents when it comes to their kids !!!

        Thats why I said the whole thing is sad - for Jacinta and Geraldine, for the PP, for the little girl and family and even for Anthony Murphy.

        It having happened - we must all learn from it.

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      4. Yes, we must salvage something from this manufactured incident.

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      5. Magna Carta has a lot more in common with Mr Murphy than he thinks in terms of acerbic priggishness and ecstatic self-righteousness.

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      6. Peas in a pod, pal. Peas in a pod.

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    2. It was reported yesterday on Kfm that the gay couple are due to return to the church choir tonight after receiving overwhelming support from the community in Athy.

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    3. so the average Irish parishioner is decent and tolerant, contrary to the image projected at this site

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. I think that the average Irish parishioner is decent and tolerant.

        Delete
    4. The gay couple in Athy Jacinta and Geraldine said they were overwhelmed and humbled by the public support they received before asking people not to direct abuse towards Anthony Murphy but to turn the focus on to God's love and his mercy. (The Journal.ie) which proves what true Christian people they are in my opinion

      ReplyDelete
    5. When I chose to cross the line as a Roman Catholic Priest and become sexually active I knew I was breaking the law. I also knew that what I was doing was not intrinsically wrong. There was a tension within myself but the force of nature won out. Looking back i could have approached the matter in a more logical and measured manner but that was me back then not now. I admire the couple that had a music ministry and see them as totally normal. Normal couples of whatever orientation need to be affirmed and that is the role of an evolving church in the spirit of the Gospel. It is the deviants that need to be weeded out and shown up for what they are. It is time for the quiet and right minded priests to speak up and reflect the true nature of faith in their parishes before their silence stifles their communities to death

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    6. Bishop Pat, I came across the following in the comment section of the latest ACP website entry:

      In countenancing anonymous accusations the bishops have brought on themselves a deluge of such allegations from poisonous bloggers. Happily the abuse of minors has not been a theme. Rather the frenzy now is about the supposed personal life of gay clergy. The bloggers seem to show a Schindler’s List level of contempt for the Human dignity of their targets. I suggest that it would be a service to society to fund legal action against such systematic defamation and hate speech

      What are your thoughts on this? I presume he was referring to your blog. I personally think the ACP should also take a good look at themselves. Priests' infideleties should be the People of God's business. Afterall they pay them and put them in a position of trust to serve them. The People of God need better, not hush hush and cover up as has been the disastrous norm up to now. Sure we're all sinners but priests especially should try to practice what they preach and what the institution they serve expects of them. Turning a blind eye to the sexual misconduct of a man who celebrates the Eucharist is only sharing in the hypocrisy, especially when the Church denies Holy Communion to many of its lay members already. You can't have your cake and eat it. ACP priests seem to disagree with the institutional church on many things but how many of them have done the decent thing and left? Talk the talk but also walk the walk. I have much greater respect for the many silent priests who for whatever reason quietly walk away never making a song and dance about it. They have the courage of their convictions.The ACP chorus is beginning to ring hollow with their 'noisy gongs and clanging symbals'. There's nothing heroic or avant-garde about slinging arrows at the establshment when you're firmly ensconsed in your Victorian pile and guaranteed three square meals a day for the rest of your life. The problem is the ACP is just the liberal wing of the establishment and so have a lot to lose if they rock the boat too vigorously.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. I think the ACP is just a priest's trade union trying to protect the "rights" of their fee paying members.

        They are obviously keen to protect their sexually active members from exposure while happy, as you say, to take the diocesan euro and other benefits.

        I think more and more people are seeing through them.

        Delete
    7. Anthony Murphy. You have just received a clear and unequivocal message from the good, loving and grace filled parishioners of St Michaels in Athy.
      " Not in our name"

      Portlaoise Pauline

      ReplyDelete
    8. The request by the gay couple that Mr Murphy not be the subject of criticism in the aftermath of his stupidity but instead that focus should now turn to Gods love and mercy spoke volumes about who is full of Catholic correctness and who is possessed of Christian charity.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. You've hit a nail squarely on its head.

        Delete
    9. The writer of the recent piece in the ACP newsletter suggesting that the bishops institute legal proceedings against this, or any blog, for the critical postings would need to be very careful.
      I am minded of the old saying " Be careful what you ask for 'cos if you get it you mightn't be able to handle it"
      Methinks that a legal action might well have matters ventilated in a public forum that neither the ACP nor the bishops would wish for.
      Not clever thinking.
      Legal Eagle
      Malone Road

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Pat  you should look up Murphys Facebook page . He claims to have received death threats and seems to connect Sinn Fein to it as a result of the choir controversy .He mentions a hate campaign and mobs being whipped up into a frenzy! Very dramatic stuff .His fb page is very interesting apart from that !!

        Delete
      2. I do hope that no one is being threatened because of their nationality?

        Tolerance is required of all of us.

        Delete
      3. Thanks legal eagle. Would be obliged if you could research and comment on questions posted earlier on legal ownership and use of monies donated by parishioners to PPs, the "Parish", etc in view of misuse suspicions by clergy.
        MMM

        Delete
    10. A seminarian you put up is heavily involved with Sinn Féin. Seen him in Stormont with the big bucks.

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    11. I would never attempt to judge the lifestyles of anyone and would be quite happy to let these two ladies continue in their valuable contribution to their Parish!
      It does not cross many people's minds that few Mass-goers are beyond reproach - extortionate rents, wife & child beaters, thieves , murderers etc. could also be disbarred from Mass using Mr. Murphy's standards - the Lord welcomes us all - and it is he who made us as we are.
      I congratulate their P.P. - I wish I had him as my P.P. - nothing judgemental there!
      Could 15.29 tell us what he is getting at????
      'A seminarian you put up ??? Please enlighten me!

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. I think he means a seminarian previously mentioned on this blog.

        Delete
    12. Would any contributor from St Michaels in Athy be kind enough to update us on the " welcome back" the choir leaders receive this weekend. Maybe they could have a wee look around and see if Mr Murphy is also fulsome and magnanimous in his display of appreciation at the couples return.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. If the choir leaders are welcomed back that's marvelous. FTBG as me mam would say. Feck the begrudgers

        Delete
    13. 17. 34 why be nosy, just let them be

      ReplyDelete
    14. I think a point is being overlooked is that what was being criticised was not their attendance at mass, but their public roles despite their contradictory lifestyles..

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Why should their public roles have mattered?

        Delete
    15. Don't we all have contradictory lifestyles?

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    16. Public role...singing at mass...a parish mass...let them be

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    17. actually i think was implied was that one was an extraordinary minister of holy communion also. therefore living a life at odds with such a fundamental teaching of the catholic church should make people holding a public role in the parish to reconsider their beliefs or position

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Is it a sin to be in a loving, commited and monogamous relationship?

        The fundamental (and exclusively redemptive) doctrine of any Christian denomination, including Roman Catholicism, must be love. How did these women violate that?

        Delete
    18. All well and good 22.55 but what about the boyos with the most public roles of all at mass. Never mind distributing the Eucharist these guys are consecrating it and many of them are living contradictory lives. Secret Gay and heterosexual relationships.
      Creative accounting and in some cases abusive behaviours. And these guys took solemn oaths and promises to remain celibate.
      All these ladies did was legalised their relationship in the eyes of the state. The National government being mandated to introduce this form of union by a majority of the votes cast.
      It is not our nor the churches nor Mr Murphy's right to know what,if any, aspect of their relationship is sexual.
      Once again the hypocracy of the RC church is laid open for all to see.
      Thankfully the PP in Athy seems to have more Christian understanding and common sense than at least one of his more visible parishoners.

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      Replies
      1. This is an excellent sensible comment. Thanks.
        MMM

        Delete
    19. Ironic that one of these ladies is named after a Fatima visionary who saw the vision of hell and whose cousin, Lucia, said that most souls go to hell because of sexual sins, not that they are the most serious but because they are habitual and often go unconfessed. Blessed Jacinta pray for us and, especially, your namesakes.
      EL

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      Replies
      1. And what, pray, does Peter say? That love covers a multitude of sins. (1 Peter 4:8)

        Delete
      2. Come off it! He wasn't referring to Sapphic shenanigans, I'm sure. What is more loving than warning people of the eternal consequences of their activities as Lucia did?

        Delete
      3. 'Sapphic shenanigans'? If this matter weren't so personal, serious and tragic, I'd be bellylaughing right now at the puerility of your humour.

        I swear you homophobes are obsessed with homosexual sex. For people so apparently opposed to homosexuality, you prefer to think of it in purely sexual terms. What does that say about you all? Huh?

        Peter was referring to love...self-sacrificing love...as was I. You were the only one thinking of something else.

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      4. Peter was indeed referring to self-sacrificing love. It is you who have decided to define this real love as an excuse to commit un-natural acts. If God approves of un-natural lust just give me the scriptural references and traditional teaching to back it up. Saint Peter Damian was a Doctor of the Church who confirms the corrosion of real love involved in homosexuality. I take it that you are not a Doctor of the Church although you think that your are.
        EL

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      5. Peter Damian was likely, as I've already suggested, a severely repressed and self-loathing gay man. This makes his comments on homosexuality highly questionable.

        Homosexuality is not, as you so stupidly put it, 'unnatural'. It is part of the spectrum of human sexuality. And it always has been.

        Try to mature a little.

        Delete
    20. 23.58. Claptrap.

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      Replies
      1. You're desperately hoping so.

        Delete