Saturday, 17 September 2016

SEMINARY SUICIDES

SEMINARY SUICIDES




This week we heard of the tragic case of Michael Deegan RIP who committed suicide in 1994 in St Patrick's College, Thurles.

We also heard of another suicide connected with Thurles.

We heard of a suicide connected to Maynooth.

In the case of Thurles and Michael Deegan he was being sexually stalked and harassed in his first year -  when our English priest friend say the abusive material on his bed and took him to complain to Father Fogarty. That was 1991. He died in his third year when he was 20 going on 21. 

Bishop William Lee was president of Thurles from 1987 until 1993. So he was the college president when Michael Deegan was being sexually stalked and harassed. 


LEE


Did Father Fogarty tell the college president about the sexual harassment?

If he did not he was more than remiss. 

If he did - which is surely much more likely - what did William Lee do about it?

Did William Lee have a habit of not acting on reports of abuse: Read:


25th MARCH 2010



Another Irish bishop has apologised for failing to properly deal with allegations of child abuse against a priest, it was confirmed today.
Bishop of Waterford and Lismore Dr William Lee, who waited two years in the mid-1990s before telling Garda about complaints from two people, said his handling of accusations was seriously inadequate.
"I sincerely apologise and am deeply sorry for the inadequacies of my earlier actions in this case," the bishop said.

Bishop Lee said he particularly regretted not removing the priest from all ministry or informing other clerics the allegations had been made.

"In October 1995, having had the benefit of the guidance then emerging from the Bishops' Advisory Committee on child sexual abuse, I reviewed my earlier decisions in the case and concluded that these had been seriously inadequate," the bishop said in a statement.

"I particularly regretted that I had not sought the immediate withdrawal of the priest from all ministry and that others associated with the new ministry were not informed that allegations had been made."


The priest at the centre of allegations was not charged with criminal offences. Bishop Lee said two people who came forward first in 1993 declined to press charges and more people who made complaints in 1996 decided not to push for charges.

So would it be the case by by the time Lee became bishop of Waterford he had become accustomed to inaction or slow action on questions of sexual abuse?

Could his intervention as President of Thurles saved the life of Michael Deegan?

MICHAEL DEEGAN'S STALKER WAS ORDAINED:




Yesterday this Blog received the information that the leader of the Thurles Gay Cabal (like the Maynooth Gay Cabal ? ) was actually ordained a priest for an Irish diocese and is still in ministry !

This priest was apparently the leader of a gang of 4 who liked to sexually bully younger seminarians and who also liked to report other seminarians to the college authorities.

They once reported our English Priest Informant for saying something against Church teaching in a lecture. The President believed them and it was only sorted out by the intervention of the lecturer who told the president no such incident had happened. 

The Blog has been given the name of that priest and two of his three fellow gang members. 



Tackling the culture of abuse






Madam, – I personally reject the argument being made by Fr Tony Flannery (Home News, December 31st), that the auxiliary bishops in Dublin had little power or control over the culture that was allowed to prevail in the archdiocese of Dublin. There is a moral imperative on all of us to act in a responsible way to protect the weak and vulnerable in our community and society. How can anyone justify turning a deaf ear to the defenceless children who were systematically abused by the “pillar of the church” over such a prolonged period of time?
Upon reflection, Bishop James Moriarty came to the realisation that he should have challenged the prevailing culture that was allowed to exist in Dublin when he served there as auxiliary bishop. What was fundamentally lacking in Dublin and elsewhere was credible leadership and direction.
What facilitated the child sexual abuse culture in the archdiocese of Dublin was an overriding emphasis on silence and secrecy. There was no whistleblowing mechanism in place or allowed to operate within the system. Innocent children were groomed and alienated from their peers so as to satisfy the needs of their paedophile abusers.
Given the nature of the depravity, it was imperative on all cardinals, auxiliary bishops and priests to break the silence and secrecy and seek external professional advice and help.
What is lacking in the Irish Catholic Church is objectivity. This all- pervasive culture of clericalism stifled meaningful debate and discussion. Indeed, senior church figures deluded themselves by insisting on loyalty and conformity. Any individual who dared to recognise “the elephant in the room” was automatically demonised and ostracised. Those who tried in vain to speak out were either silenced or alienated from the institution.
It seems disingenuous of Fr Tony Flannery to publicly criticise Archbishop Diarmuid Martin for insisting on collective accountability and the subsequent collective responsibility that must follow from this. This is a given fact of Christian morality that we must all take individual responsibility for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of our actions. It is a moral principle that Archbishop Martin strives to adhere to, but which others have chosen to disregard or ignore at their peril.
The fact that auxiliary bishops failed to challenge the prevailing culture of abuse means they fundamentally contributed to the problem and failed to facilitate early resolution. Indeed, the concept of “mental reservation” comes to mind. The fact remains that what prevailed was a deliberate culture of lies, deceit, obstruction and evasion.
There obviously needs to be a root and branch investigation into the nature and scale of child sexual abuse by Catholic clergy throughout the country. The costs with respect to such an undertaking should be funded from church resources, unless it is established that State institutions were also complicit in allowing innocent children to be sexually abused by clergy.
Fundamentally for me as an ex-priest and clerical student of the system, abuse is not just confined to child sexual abuse by Roman Catholic priests. Abuse was endemic within all levels of the organisation.
It prevailed in the seminary structure where there was a profound imbalance of power and control. What is most disappointing for me from a personal perspective is the lack of insight from the Irish hierarchy which collectively adopted a strategy of “business as usual” by continuing to promote vocation. The church’s organisation management structure is fundamentally flawed, not just in Dublin but in other dioceses as well. Consequently, truth, validation, redresses and closure are denied to the victims.
Given my own personal experience of psychological and emotional abuse as a clerical student from September 1985 to June 1992, at St Patrick’s College, Thurles, when Fr William Lee (now Bishop of Waterford Lismore) was seminary president, I would now ask Archbishop Dermot Clifford, Cashel Emly, and Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza, Apostolic Nuncio, to facilitate an independent public sworn inquiry into this matter. – Yours, etc,

MATTHEW RING, Ex-priest of the Diocese of Cloyne,
SOME QUESTIONS:

1. Did Bishop Willaim Lee know about the harassment of Michael Deegan and what did he do about it?

2. Did Michael Deegan's harassment continue into his second and third years in Thurles and did it play a part in his tragic death?

3. What does the man who succeeded Willaim Lee in Thurles - Monsignor Christy O'Dwyer know about the case and what did he do?



4. Is anyone involved guilty of a criminal offence - apart from any moral failure?

There is no doubt in my mind that this case should be referred to the Garda.

This WILL be done!
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PATHETIC IRISH BISHOPS:

TRYING TO EXPLAIN ALL THE COVER UPS:



In the past few weeks we have seen the pathetic and useless response of the THE IRISH BISHOPS to the Maynooth Gay scandal.  A Blog reader has sent us in an example of The Irish Bishops at their worst - lost, waffling, in denial. It is taken via Youtube from the Vincent Brown Tonight programme on Ireland's TV3.




I know its slightly long - but if you want to see the Irish Bishops at their WORST BEST its really worth a watch. Its a press conference performance by three bishops a few weeks after their meeting with Pope Benedict about their mishandling of the clerical child abuse saga in Ireland. 

Let us know by way of comments what you think.....................

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THOUGHT FOR TODAY:




TODAY'S VERSE:

Indifference
or
When Jesus Came to Golgotha

When Jesus came to Golgotha
They hanged Him on a tree,
They drave great nails through hands and feet,
And made a Calvary.
They crowned Him with a crown of thorns;
Red were His wounds and deep,
For those were crude and cruel days,
And human flesh was cheap.
When Jesus came to Birmingham,
They simply passed Him by;
They never hurt a hair of Him,
They only let Him die.
For men had grown more tender,
And they would not give Him pain;
They only just passed down the street,
And left Him in the rain.

Still Jesus cried, “Forgive them,
For they know not what they do.”
And still it rained the winter rain
That drenched Him through and through.
The crowds went home and left the streets
Without a soul to see;
And Jesus crouched against a wall
And cried for Calvary.


TODAY'S PIC:



47 comments:

  1. You will find lay staff and seminarians on www.fabguys.com

    Www.fabguys.com/profile/luvcum_123

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. FabGuys.


      n.s.fun

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      Delete
    2. Have Maynooth seminarians moved from Grindr to Fabguys?

      Delete
    3. "Don't drink"

      Obviously, not a Catholic priest or seminarian.

      Delete
  2. I watched this video with deepening incredulity and anger.

    Cardinal Brady and AB Martin ducked their responsibility to face the music here and set up Bp McAreavey as their Aunt Sally. They probably thought that McAreavey, as a canon lawyer, would be more than able to parry any awkward Press questions. Huge mistake. McAreavey bumbled, obfuscated, prevaricated and, frankly,embarrassed himself throughout the Press conference. And to think we looked to these duplicitous fools as moral arbiters?

    The sheep aren't straying; they've gone in search of more trustworthy shepherds.

    ReplyDelete
  3. In my day a rim was part of a bicycle wheel

    ReplyDelete
  4. I only needed to view the first five minutes or so of that video of the bishops 'press conference', and quit shortly after bishop Jones' started waffling.
    Frankly were I still a catholic believer or churchgoer it would have been extremely embarassing to see such bumbling inept inadequacy displayed by bishops McAreavy and Jones.
    If such is the pathetic level of competence and understanding of these representatives of the Irish bishops then it simply serves to support all those criticisms of their collective inadeqacy being made by +Pat and others on this blogsite
    MMM

    ReplyDelete
  5. A good few of them use that web site

    ReplyDelete
  6. Watched first Bishop waffling and going in circles. I believe these bishops were thrown to the media as canon fodder. They appear not to have the information needed to respond appropriately and with full knowledge

    ReplyDelete
  7. If the goings on listed in this blog had happened in any other countries the y would have burned them off the island

    ReplyDelete
  8. You will not publish a photograph of Vincent Nicholls in his swimwear, on this site, or anywhere else for that matter, because no such picture has ever existed. It was all an initial humorous remark that got out of hand. The picture that Adrian Arrowsmith had in his sitting room was of a young Vincent Nicholls when he was at the English College as part of the VEC football team, in football kit. There were the other team mates in it as well. Honestly Pat you need to do better than this. For a man of your age you are surprisingly gullible, or perhaps its just you accept anything at face value that you perceive as being of use to you never ending crusade against the Church? I don't know what it is. Recently your posts have really caused me deep concern. Do you ever take time to look at yourself in the mirror? A long hard client look, that is? Are you comfortable with the man who is looking back at you? Content with the man who on a daily basis publishes innuendo, falsehoods, allegations, gossip (even about the dead)? I don't know how you sleep at night. I really pity you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you saying that the English priest who personally saw this photo is a liar?

      Why did Canon Arrowsmith have a picture of seminarians in football gear on display in his sitting room?

      The picture the English priest says he saw was of Adrian Arrowsmith and Vinent Nichols - both in speedos - not of a whole football team.

      Maybe you are another of the many cover-up merchants the Church has produced?

      All the more reason now why whoever has the speedo pic lets us have it.

      Delete
  9. There's a video of a lecturer (lay) online. Either that or it's his twin

    ReplyDelete
  10. The Pope said recently to newly appointed bishops in Rome:

    "The world is tired of lying spellbinders and, allow me to say, ‘trendy’ priests or bishops. The people sniff them out – they have God’s sense of smell – and they walk away when they recognise narcissists, manipulators, defenders of their own causes, auctioneers of vain crusades,” he said.

    Bishops are leaders God has chosen and entrusted to guide and serve his children, not themselves, the Pope said. Bishops must also remember it is the grace and power of God, not their own, that touches and transforms the world", he added.

    Too many Irish bishops - and ALL of those currently waiting desperately in the wings, to replace them when they retire or pop their clogs, are "lying spellbinders, manipulators and narcissists", who are serve themselves alone.

    The wrong type of man is made a bishop in Ireland. Invariably, he is a sycophant, driven by his own selfish desires for adulation and prestige, a dysfunctional cleric with a dangerously enlarged ego.

    None of the present wannabe bishops have served in a parish and have no interest in ordinary peoples' daily struggles.

    Will things change? I'm not hopeful. Nevertheless, bad leaders are ruinous to the Church. That bumbling, inept and lazy man, John McAreavey, is a case in point.

    Willy Lee, Christy Jones, Sean Brady and so many others - bungling clowns, utterly deficient on so many levels and entirely unqualified for Christian leadership/service.

    Will the Church learn its lessons and look for men with pastoral hearts to lead? In all likelihood - NOT!

    And we will all continue to suffer, as the next line-up of Miss Worlds preen themselves, choosing their tiaras, awaiting their coronations to be confirmed, by a call from Navan Rd.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All of those being touted as future bishops in Ireland, at present, fill me with despair for the future. Some of them are as devious and cunning manipulators as you will ever meet

      Delete
    2. Two noteworthy comments relating to the appointments of bishops appeared in Bishop Buckley's blog and were largely ignored! 14 September - 11.33 & 19.15
      Perhaps the good Bishop could carry these over to today's blog accompany the wishes of Pope Francis for truly Christlike Bishops! I do not have that expertise - nor am I sure that I would have the right to do so
      This is something that could and should occupy tha ACP'S energies to ensure that those who should be made bishops are so appointed - and that the wannabes, the game players and those who cultivate an episcopal illusion of themselves - the nice guys - are let grow old in a well deserved obscurity.
      Pip and Sam fan club

      Delete
    3. Certainly,September 14th - 11.33 and 19.55 are of interest!
      Whether the ACP have influence or not (and probably not) surely there must be some competent force within the Church to change those things which MUST be changed.
      Would be nice if someone could copy the above comments to today's! The have relevance!

      Delete
  11. The young lad, Michael Deegan, was being sexually harassed in 1st year when the senior student (now a priest in England) took him to Fogarty.

    In his 3rd year, Michael ended his life. Did the stalking, harassment and obscene messages progress to full contact sexual assaults?

    Whatever happened, things certainly did not improve and the result was tragedy.

    Pat now has been informed that the Thurles gay stalker (leader of a gay cabal) went on to be ordained and is still in ministry. The gay cabal bullied younger seminarians and often "squealed" on students to the staff.

    Isn't this exactly what the gay cabal in Gaynooth are alleged to be doing in 2016?

    The Thurles gay cabal, its leader who tortured Michael Deegan, Bill Lee, Christy O'Dwyer and Tom Fogarty, need to be pursued for answers and made accountable.

    This whole affair is utterly appalling and is another hidden horror story of the Irish Church. It was intended to stay buried with the innocent victim, Michael Deegan.

    They reckoned without Pat Buckley and the Irish priest, working in England, who has remembered the tears of that boy, one night, on a corridor, in SPC Thurles.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have been deeply disturbed since hearing of the circumstances that led to the death of Michael Deegan RIP.

      If I had played any part in Michael's death I could not live with myself.

      I am appaled to hear that one of his torturers is a priest.

      Has this man no conscience?

      Delete
    2. These scumbags have no conscience. You can bet your life they went to the wake and the funeral and made all the right noises but, when they got back to their own pansy parlours, it was all teehees and hahas.

      I know the type of these sewer rats. I hope the vile bastards are getting nervous as they await a knock on the door. They thought their evil perversions had been forgotten and the evidence of their crimes buried, with their innocent victim, in Clonoghill graveyard. They richly deserve what many sincerely hope is coming to them.


      Delete
    3. Imagine that at least one of this gang of perverts is a "priest" and has had access, for years, to teenage boys and young men, like Michael??

      Wouldn't you think, that, in a functional seminary, the presence of any type of pornonography (gay or straight), or obscene materials, would instigate a thorough investigation by the authorities, leading to expulsions??

      And, especially, given the tragic outcome of Michael Deegan's plight and that Tom Fogarty was aware of the boy being targeted, that heaven and earth would have been moved, to discover who and what caused this horrific scenario???

      I am lost for words. I also have no doubt now, in view of this Thurles case in the 90's, in view of Gaynooth now today, that some Irish Catholic bishops and senior clerics are practising homosexuals, who are compromised and unable to take the action that is needed, to cleanse the Church of gay cabals, in Thurles then - and in Gaynooth now!!

      Delete
  12. “The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to such a pass that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love, and in order to occupy and distract himself without love he gives way to passions and coarse pleasures, and sinks to bestiality in his vices, all from continual lying to other men and to himself. The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offence, isn’t it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill — he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offence, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it, and so pass to genuine vindictiveness.”

    Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I presume you speak of Michael Deegans torturers and those who sheltered them?

      Delete
    2. Young Michael was being abused in 1st year by being forcibly exposed to pornography and obscene messages. The Dean, Tom Fogarty, was informed.

      In 3rd year, Michael Deegan ended his life.

      It is highly likely that the early abuse, which he found so distressing, (as the priest now serving in England who found him crying one night and brought him to Fogarty, has testified), escalated to full-on contact sexual assault and, quite possibly, rape.

      It is established that sexual predators often "groom" their victims by exposing them to pornography, before subjecting them to physical contact/invasive/penetrative, sexual assault and battery.

      Whatever the actual details of what happened to Michael, we know that, before his 21st birthday, he could take no more and he ended his earthly life.

      This story is sad beyond words and those, with any information on what happened to Micheal Deegan in Thurles Seminary, should go to the Guards or contact Bishop Pat, who will direct it to the criminal and civil authorities.

      Delete
  13. Pat, how do you describe your religion? I know you're not Roman Catholic so are you just 'Catholic'? Or do you simply just describe yourself as a 'Christian'? Or have you turned Protestant?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I do not like to think I have a "religion" at all.

      I have a faith and a spirituality.

      My faith and spirituality are primarily Christian - as I STRIVE to follow Jesus.

      I imagine my faith and spirituality are also catholic (with a small c) in the sense that I express my Christianity according to the catholic tradition - the Bible, the 7 Sacraments, Holy Orders etc.

      I am an Irish Catholic rather than a Roman Catholic - as I believe that Rome hijacked and corrupted early Apostolic Christianity.

      Delete
    2. They say religion is for people who want to avoid hell whereas spirituality is for people who have been through hell.

      Delete
  14. Fr Des Wilson has an interesting article on celibacy in The Irish Catholic:
    http://irishcatholic.ie/article/church-might-be-forced-move-celibacy
    He is a sensible man.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Until you have been battered to a pulp and shoved through a sieve, you haven't started the journey.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Pat, just a curious question. can anyone attend your Oratory/mass etc, or is it just for family/friends?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not at all! For 30 years now it is absolutely open to EVERYONE.

      12 noon Sundays.

      Delete
    2. Pat, is there daily Mass at Larne?

      Delete
  17. A secretary to a bishop in the Armagh province has been told by their bishop that on the back of this blog and where it is slowly going that at least four bishops are shitting themselves. He did not expand on whether they were active, retired, Ordinaries of Auxillaries.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would say "active" - in more ways than one.

      Delete
    2. A number of sexually compromised gay bishops is the only logical explanation for the hierarchy's failure to deal decisively with Gaynooth!

      Let's hope the bishops who are "shitting themselves" will be ousted soon so that the Church can be cleansed and healed.

      Delete
    3. Well Cardinal Brady didn't seem to shit himself much after he
      Was exposed for making young teens make illegal promises
      He still seems to enjoy his free rides to Lourdes every year with pink decoration on his head

      Delete
    4. A bishop in Armagh province
      Lol well now that is a laugh

      Delete
  18. I just might take a trip to Larne sometime on a Sunday at 12.
    Love to hear inspirational wee talks, just like I get when I go out of my way to listen to Brian Darcy....
    I will comment after I make the journey there.
    So far I'm inspired by your blog Pat...every day

    ReplyDelete
  19. What has changed since that interview by Vincent B, does anyone know?

    ReplyDelete
  20. I am a traditional Catholic (not 'Roman Catholic' - that was a name thought up by Elizabethan Anglicans who wanted to cling onto the idea that they were a separate 'branch' of the Catholic Church). However, asides aside, I disagree with you profoundly on the most basic theological matters but believe that you might succeed in doing some great good here. Some (perhaps these days many) Catholic bishops, priests and religious seem to have come to regard the priesthood or religious life as a career or as a means of pursuing a certain lifestyle rather than a unique calling to a life of constant prayer, enormous sacrifice and a constant quest for saintliness and to encourage others to do so as far as possible. To have joined the priesthood without that calling (or to have adopted it later) is clearly an enormous affront to God BUT to have done so consciously in order to enable oneself to sin sexually, to be the centre of attention, to live an easy life, or to steal/abuse the monies of the poor or even to act, in unbelief as an agnostic social worker raises the prospect of a terrible and eternal fate. It is to be piously hoped that some, maybe only one, guilty of these sins might come to fear the prospect of eternal rejection by God as being more important than the loss of those illicit things and to resign or allow those real graces offered to the sincere ordinand to finally flow by true repentance.
    EL

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  21. HELP!!!

    WHY CANT I SEE THE MORE RECENT POSTS?!? THIS APPEARS TO BE THE MOST RECENT ONE?!? IS IT?!? HAVE THE MORE RECENT ONES BEEN DELETED?!?

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  22. Pat, I know from press reports that over the years you have not had the best time of it from the church, and I think you are right to highlight the shortcomings of seminary behaviour. You are also right to comment on the bishops who moved abusing priests around. They should have been laicised and handed over to the courts as accessories.

    That said may I add I don't understand the very personalised nature of your campaign and the hounding of individuals, including the Dublin deacon. Do you consider the impact on his mental health. There is a risk of another suicide at this rate.

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  23. Also I would have put u down as a "judge not" sort of person so why are u so strict on this? I do take yr point that it is hypocritical to preach against same sex marriage if having gay sex. I was a seminarian in the Ledwith era and was only aware of one active gay man, though no doubt there were others. The main issue then was the girlfriends and secret liaisons with women. Some female lay students liked hanging around with seminarians as they tended to be older and perhaps more sensitive/better listeners.

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  24. Pat, thank u for publishing my comments, even though critical of aspects of your work. How can I private message u?

    ReplyDelete
  25. And also catching a seminarian was a catch.

    ReplyDelete