Sunday, 18 September 2016



From a priest

Dear Pat

The mention today of the Thurles seminarian Michael Deegan, Lord have mercy on him, on your blog has resurrected many thought and emotions at that I had buried for many years. I did not know Michael but his name was mention when I was a student in that cesspit that was Thurles Seminary.

I was told of his suicide, but no reason for it was every given. To be fair any student there in my time would not have known him either. Let me tell you of my experience in that institution. It does not contain any account of sexual abuse or sexual impropriety. It does however show what kind of institution that place was. As I begin keep in mind this all took place post the year 2000, not the 1950’s.

When I went to Thurles seminary the seminarian numbers were just about in double figures, and there were a few lay students also. My first impression was how out of date the atmosphere felt, it was as if it was stuck in a 1970’s time warp. When I was shown to my room the first thing I noticed was that my bedroom/study room door had no key. I did inquire about this and asked ‘well how am I supposed to lock my door?’ The reply I got was you can’t. I have to confess my first reaction was theft/security related. I was rather innocent I admit.


The regime was as follows Morning Prayer 7.20, Mass 7.40 (or when the priest on that week eventually showed up), followed by breakfast. Classes 9.10-11, then 11.30 to 12.40. Midday prayer 12.45. Lunch 1pm-2pm. Classes 2pm-3.30. Free time 3.30-4.30. You could only leave college ground without permission at this time only. 4.30-6pm study. Tea 6pm-6.30pm. Study 6.30-10pm then night prayer and bed. No evening prayer expect Saturday and Sunday, Benediction on Sunday with the evening prayer. All of the clerical staff member were priests of the Archdiocese of Cashel and Emly.


The atmosphere in the college was that of an immature boarding school, of children trying to please ‘daddy’ rather than that of a third level institute for adults studying for the priesthood. The staff were not much better. The behaviour exhibited by both groups was not what one would or ought to expect. Bullying among students was widespread. The president was Fr Christy O’Dwyer (successor of William lee) now the Dean PP of Cashel town. The Vice President was Fr Celsus Tierney now curate in Holycross parish. The dean of formation was Fr Colin Bergin, now married.


If a student was considered to have notions, or in general did not seem to fit in, he could come back from class to find his room turned upside down. 

I do mean that literally, and indeed some of his belongings broken or missing. There was no way of locking you room. The sense of violation, of not knowing who had done this or why was so very, very destructive. ‘Was it the person I sit next to in the chapel?’ There was no point in going to the president or the dean, as it would be turned back to you. What I mean is ‘well why do you think it happened’? ‘What is it about you that would cause people to do this?’ Basically you had no recourse or indeed no rights.

The president, Fr Christy O’Dwyer did not seem to discourage such behaviour, nor did the dean of formation Colin Bergin. Christy was known to have ‘eyes and ears’ among the students.

I have absolutely no way of substantiating this, but I have often wondered if he ‘knew’ when a student’s room would be ransacked. The worst I ever heard of, before my time, was a student coming back from night prayer to find a pigs head in his bed!

I know this to be true, as the person whose bed the pigs head was put into told me about it. Other students, who were there at the time of that incident assured me he had ‘deserved’ it.

The Dean of formation Colin Bergin was a man with a short fuse. Very tall and well built, he left the ministry in the early 2000’s and is now married. He oversaw human formation, or ‘human annulation’ as we called it.

He used to arrange pastoral placement for students. On one occasion my placement had not yet been set up. One day I met him in the corridor and asked if he had arranged it yet. In front of some domestic college staff he told me ‘you can f’#k right off, I’ll do it when I am ready’.

You can imagine how humiliating that was and indeed a low it would make you feel. Did I mention he was in charge of ‘human formation’? He was also the then archbishop’s secretary, archbishop Clifford. The vice president Celsus Tierney taught moral theology.

One day in class he was mentioning a church council that took place in the 4th century, a meeting, he said, of the American bishops. I asked him, ‘do you mean Armenian bishops?’, as America was not discovered by European’s until the end of the 15th century. He insisted his notes said American bishops therefore he was right. (This man marked exams!)

After class he chided me for disrupting him and contradicting him. I do not recall all of this out of spite or 'telling tales out of school'. The purpose is to try to paint a picture of the poisonous and destructive environment that existed in Thurles seminary. Many a person was destroyed there, many a vocation destroyed there. The men in charge of the seminary were, in my opinion, not fit to be there or to be around anyone in ‘formation’. It was a shoddy place. I left, after I got sense, and have never looked back.

However when I saw todays post, the memories surfaced again. I wish I had done more to highlight this institution at the time. If what you said about Michael Deegan is true, it would come as no surprise, based on my experience, that he was not helped. In short it was not a healthy place. The greatest thing Thurles Seminary ever did for the church was to cease being a seminary. These are MY memories and I do understand that they are subjective and open to challenge.

PS the 'Henry' show mentioned in the article ceased the year I went there, the last one being held the previous year.

It was, I understand, a variety show where new students had to entertain the college residents.

Another tradition was the potatoes picking. Once a year staff and students had to pick potatoes, which I believe the college sold (it had a farm).

New students at some point would be set upon and rolled in the mud by other students and have potatoes thrown at them, all to the back ground sound of laughter from the college staff and other students.

Photos of these incidents were put into the college magazine ‘Luceat’.

Finally, during the medical exam the college doctor did examine my testicles, and asked me to cough whilst doing it, but for the life of me I have no idea why. 

These were the proud traditions of St Patricks College Thurles. 

 PS: I hope you can see it is not a rant, or indeed an act of vengeance. I promise everything I have written is true, I do feel guilty that I do not do something at the time. The College Magazine I mentioned: I used to have copies of them, but like many who left that place I destroyed any copies I had. Christy ODwyer did become president immediately after William lee. He used go to the yearly anniversary mass for that student who died. By the way it is true that a brother of  a student found his body on a Sunday afternoon on the stage of the large hall. The student in question was a deacon when I was there, so in his final year. He is now Married. When he was a curate I spent the Easter Tridium with him as my Easter placement.   


What can you say when you read all this about Thurles Seminary?

What kind of men were in charge?

Where did Jesus and Christianity come into all this - pig's heads, potato picking and testicle fondling?

I was a cruel dysfunctional place.

But - WORST OF ALL - it was the place that drove young Michael Deegan to hang himself !!!

If there is a God in Heaven he will do justice to all responsible!


Our English priest friend who has informed us of the tragic circumstances surrounding the death of Michael Deegan's has informed us today that he travelled to Cardinal Daly's residence in Armagh to personally inform him of the matters that led to his death.

He told Daly about the stalking and sexual harassment and of the gay pornography left on Michael's bed.

He told Daly of how he had brought young Michael to Father Fogarty to complain.

Cahal Daly flew into a rage with this English priest - then only a seminarian and he called him a LIAR and refused to believe him

Cahal Daly had previously covered much of the Father Brendan Smyth story.

We now know that Daly was part of the cover up of Michael Deegan's death!



The Diocese of Down and Connor has been investigating the finances of Drumbo Parish in South Belfast.

The investigation has centred around:


1. The summary dismissal by the PP - Father Martin Kelly - of the entire parish finance committee.

2. The general financial state of the parish.

3. The sale of a house left in a will to the parish.


Last night Bishop Noel Treanor arrived to celebrate Mass in the parish and at the end of Mass he read a statement basically that all was well to the CAPTIVE AUDIENCE at Mass.

This WILL NOT satisfy all the parishioners.

The matter should have been addressed at a PUBLIC MEETING of all the parishioners.

Bishop Treanor, Father Kelly and the auditor should have been there to be grilled FORENSICALLY  by any parishioner who wished to.

But once again we see the HEAVY HAND of the HIERARCHY at work.

Bishop Treanor and Father Kelly do not own the property, possessions and money of the parish.

The parishioners own it all.

It is high time that the laity STOPPED letting bishops and priests treat them like meek sheep - turkeys voting for Christmas.

PEOPLE OF DRUMBO and CARRYDUFF if you have any bottle stand up to this behind the scenes investigation and sox called "report".

If you don't you get all you deserve!



Some people think that the truth can be hidden with a little cover-up and decoration. But as time goes by, what is true is revealed, and what is fake fades away. 

(Ismail Haniyeh)


Submitted by GL

When you get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.

For it isn’t your father, or mother, or wife
Whose judgment upon you must pass
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass.

He’s the fellow to please – never mind all the rest
For he’s with you, clear to the end
And you’ve passed your most difficult, dangerous test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
And get pats on the back as you pass
But your final reward will be heartache and tears
If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.


  1. Being at Mass in Carryduff last night it was hard to contain my anger at the arrogance of the Bishop. He is asking us 'like sheep" to believe all was well with the Accounts. He never answered why the old committee were summarily dismissed. There were 2 collections and as always no account for the week before monies in the bulletin! So much for transparency in Carryduff. The real problem with the PP in Carryduff is the 'Carryduff problem' which continues to annoy the parishioners daily. I only pray that the Bishop can put some healing into the Parish by the appointment of a new PP soon that can lead the Parish back to its thriving state that was there before the current PP. Any new PP has a mountain to climb to rebuild trust and would need to carefully choose who he trusts to advise him in a divided parish. A sad day for Drumbo & Carryduff Paridh with lots of questions left unanswered.

    1. I see in the church envelopes there is now an autumn collection . Perhaps they want it filled with fallen leaves but I very much doubt it

    2. Why the hell do you keep giving money to these people if you distrust them so much? Let me assure you they won't take any notice of you until you do.

  2. These institutions were utterly unchristian. Not much mercy,meekness, forgiveness or compassion there. How could priests and seminarians be so cruel, petty, vindictive, sadistic and miserable? It beggars belief.

  3. Slightly off cue, Richard Sipe says Robert McElroy, the bishop where he lives in San Diego has little time in engaging with him despite the fact that Sipe was encouraged by the US papal nuncio to contact him about writing a report on clerical abuse. Publicly, Bishop McElroy decries clerical sexual abuse but yet has no time for Sipe and is keeping him at arm's length as is clear from the following comprehensive letter Sipe wrote to him:
    Sadly, the dysfunctional dynamic in Thurles is replicated countless times worldwide in the church universal and not much has changed. One wonders how endemic is the phenomenon of 'compromised' bishops worldwide.

  4. The letter which Sipe wrote to McElroy contains shocking content and can be viewed on Sipe's website

  5. What really strikes me is their utter contempt for their fellow man. These people are tyrants.

    1. Pat, we need to hear more about what is happening at Maynooth. The issues there need to be highlighted and forced into the open. Yes, highlighting past issues, injustices and terror are is very important but it is the present that we can fix and stop happening in the future.
      If you want a tip on getting to the root of so much of the current Maynooth problems look for information on two Armagh seminarians....These two are causing hell in the seminary. They are influential with the staff and power hungry.

    2. Dear Anonymous @10:38, I can assure you things are going very well in Maynooth and we have full confidence in our formation team. You tried to bring us down and it failed. Kind regards.

    3. I agree, anon 10:38. Though I'd go so far as to say that there are THREE Armagh seminarians who are "causing hell in the seminary... influential with the staff and power hungry".

    4. Your frustration, Anonymous at 10:38, is understandable - especially as the key players (staff and students), in Gaynooth, remain untouched and in place.

      However, you can be sure Pat is on the case and watching developments in Gaynooth closely.

      It is important, however, to also examine the likes of Thurles in context of the history and roots of the evil and dysfunction, that is now manifest in Gaynooth; and to analyse places like Thurles, as part of the culture of abuse's twisted legacy.

      This culture of abuse in Irish seminaries is endemic and deeply embedded for several generations. Unworthy and unsuitable men preside over these cesspits, which tend to attract some dysfunctional seminarians and spawn corrupt and corrupting clerics, who wreak havoc in parishes.

      I also found this link online - another horror story - where a victim of abuse describes the staff of St Peter's Seminary, Wexford, as "not fit to look after pigs never mind students".

      St Peter's Wexford, of course, spawned the notorious pervert and predator - "Fr" Sean Fortune.

      As regards Richard Sipe's letter to the bishop of San Diego - it is explosive - naming big names among the American hierarchy as active homosexuals.

      It raises the really big question that is persistently surfacing on this bog: WHO ARE THE PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALS AMONG THE IRISH CARDINALS, ARCHBISHOPS, AND BISHOPS, PAST AND PRESENT???

      Because, without doubt, actively gay bishops are aiding and abetting the corrupt culture and toxic atmosphere in Gaynooth today, just as was done in other rotten institutions in the not too distant past (Thurles, Wexford, etc.)

      That there were many victims of the evil in these places is self-evident and some of them, like Michael Deegan, died of their emotional trauma and psychological injuries.

      Keep the searchlight shining on them. Relentless exposure is the only way to ensure no more human wreckage as result of these wolves in the fold.

    5. Anon @ 12:18 (Stephanie?) - don't get too comfortable. Your days are numbered. Plan on a different career for you won't be a priest. Maybe take your air hostess uniform out of mothballs?Your scumbag protectors too - the axe man cometh. ��

  6. Young Michael was being abused in 1st year by being forcibly exposed to pornography and obscene messages. The Dean, Tom Fogarty, was informed.

    In 3rd year, Michael Deegan ended his life.

    It is highly likely that the early abuse, which he found so distressing, (as the priest now serving in England who found him crying one night and brought him to Fogarty, has testified), escalated to full-on contact sexual assault and, quite possibly, rape.

    It is established that sexual predators often "groom" their victims by exposing them to pornography, before subjecting them to physical contact/invasive/penetrative, sexual assault and battery.

    Whatever the actual details of what happened to Michael, we know that, before his 21st birthday, he could take no more and he ended his earthly life.

    This story is sad beyond words and those, with any information on what happened to Micheal Deegan in Thurles Seminary, should go to the Guards or contact Bishop Pat, who will direct it to the criminal and civil authorities.

  7. This priest's comment seems a very heartfelt authentic account of his experiences, and adds to the growing very negative pictue of Irish seminary formation: one of bullying, sexual impropriety and ineffectual regularly weak but vicious staff.

    I feel though that I should say something by way of contrast.
    I spent just short of six years with the Kiltegan fathers seminaries, St Patricks College, Kiltegan, Co Wicklow, and Cork.
    From my present position as a 70+ year old Humanist who has since read and studied a lot more about the social sciences and religious beliefs I could criticise the then relative weakness of the college's academic standards and preparation for ministry as missionary priests.
    Nonwithstanding I feel obliged to say that I never witnessed, heard of, nor suspected any impropriety of any sort during my time there. The Society's motto is "Caritas Christi Urget Nos" (Love of Christ drives us). I think that ethos well sums up my knowledge of the Kiltegan fathers then, and as I have been in occasional contact with them down the years, most recently visiting this summer, I believe that is still the hallmark of the society.
    Yes, they have had the occasional scandals of individual priests behaviour:what institution doesn't have problematic individuals who manage to 'slip through' the vetting processes. But while there, I recall certain clearly unsuited individuals leaving, persuaded or pushed I know not. But in my final six months or so of sharing my uncertainty (about my vocation) with the spiritual director, I can only say I was gently supported and helped make what for me was the right decision to leave.
    The day before I left, the College Rector called me to his room, wished me well for the future, made sure I was "sorted" for leaving, (college in very rural isolated area), shook my hand and gave me £30,which was, in those days a substantial amount 'to see me started'.
    So despite having 'little time' for religion as such, I believe the caring/sharing ethos of my seminary years has had a lifelong positive effect and I am most grateful that I went to the SPS, rather than some of those other places currently being discussed here.

    1. MMM, Thank you for your contribution about the Kiltegans. I believe all that you said about them and I do believe their training institutions and practices were by and large mature and healthy places.

      From my own experience and knowledge I would say that many of the Kiltegan men did not observe celibacy after ordination.

      But my impression is that any involvement any of them had was with consenting adults and that is a totally different matter than the other horrors we have been discussing here of late.

  8. Pat, you may not be aware of the case of Eugene greene in raphoe diocese who committed vicious offences against young boys. Among other crimes he raped altar servers and then directly proceeded to celebrate greene was a product of kiltegan.

    1. I did of course know of the case of Eugene Green.

      I did not know he was a Kiltegan.

      I wonder can we blame Kiltegan for his twistedness?

      Just asking?

    2. No. That would be too simplistic. I think he should never have been allowed near any seminary. I believe he transferred to raphoe after a period in Africa. I have often wondered did his offending only start in Ireland or was he moved home because of complaints. We ll probably never know.

    3. The abuse of men, women and children by Irish missionaries in an as yet untold story.

    4. I never agreed with the way priests are appointed/transferred. The system is geared to keep them isolated and prevent healthy relationships. It can only contribute to damage.

  9. Was at mass in carryduff this morning. The church wasnt even half full. The bishop read his statement......very well worded. Basically we arent to ask any questions and let kelly leave it peace. Why cant we see a copy of the finance report??? Can we not ask questions? Drumbo problem sitting at the back of the church like a chesire cat too. Lost all faith in the bishop

  10. hey anon 12:18, don't get too comfortable
    Gaynooth is going down and so are its dysfunctional staff members
    The seminarians who are part of the Gaynooth problem will be shown the door by the end of it. Pat is on to you and so are the concerned laity

  11. I have just seen the statement from Bishop Treanor about the problems in carryduff parish. He did not go far enough to give enough answers about why Fr kelly sacked the finance committee before their term was up or why the bank acc. was suspended,and why there still is no collection amount printed in the weekly bulletin. I think there are a lot more questions to be answered,i dont think fr kelly will have the full support of all the parishioners even after this statement from Bishop Treanor

    1. I don't think Fr Kelly will give a jot what parishioners think. He has the house that he evicted the family from that the parish owns to retire too. He will be replaced before the end of the month. Just hope the "Carryduff problem" goes with him. Any new PP has a massive job to build up trust in this parish. The Bishop needs to choose wisely. But he may not have many to choose from��

  12. The Thurles regime recalled above sounds anything but Christian. If staff members have "problems" the last place they should be put is in a role of authority in an enclosed space such as that referred to above. No wonder so many priests appear cynical and or damaged. It has to be linked in some way to the shite system that formed them

  13. I did the last pre seminary spiritual year at Kiltegan. I found it a positive experience

  14. Anonymous18 September 2016 at 12:18
    Dear Anonymous @10:38, I can assure you things are going very well (does that mean you guys have a new gay app to use and other rooms to use for your encounters) in Maynooth and we have full confidence in our formation team (why wouldnt you when your sleeping with most of them). You tried to bring us down (still am) and it failed (not yet apparently... don't get comfortable there is a ++ very much working for reform). Kind regards (Don't need regards from those carrying out satans agenda...I have Almighty God on my side) By the way Armagh students I wouldnt go round saying you have ++ Eamons backing..he has SEEN alot since

  15. Why do the good parishoners of Drumbo and Carryduff not ask for a public meeting to be called. If the PP or indeed the diocese has nothing to hide then they will be glad to face questions. Failure to agree to a public meeting might be an indication that there is something to hide and all is not well.

  16. I hope God will forgive me. This morning when I awoke I had a wee chat with him. I told him I was not at my best yesterday as I had a fallout with my sister and we parted on bad terms. I felt he nudged me to pick up the phone and say sorry.( It was tough but later in the morning I did- and I'm glad)
    The great thing about my God is I can chat to him anytime. Don't need 3rd parties to get involved. I have a clear and always available channel. Don't need "directed". He's always there. Mind you he needs to have great tolerance and patience with me bur I know he loves me. I have also discovered along my life's journey that God often gives me the courage to do things I find difficult.
    I'm no holy roller or jumper for Jesus. Just an ordinary guy. That said I find the subject matter on here hilarious especially the bits where folks actually hold clergy in awe. I think God finds it hilarious as well. Anyway I won't be faced with the dilemma of Carryduff folk. Instead of having to put money in a poke today I just bought a big poke of ice cream. Much more enjoyable and got something tasty and spiritually uplifting.

  17. That doctor who was "checkin" (feelin) the lads balls in Thurles was simply a pervert gettin his rocks off. He should be reported. Dirty bastard.

    1. Perhaps, perhaps not. This particular part of a medical examination is common in full medicals and is designed to discover if the subject has a hernia! As both a nurse and holding qualifications in pre hospital emergency care I assure you that this is correct. As to the doctor's motives, personal, perverted or otherwise, there is no indication whatsoever other than a professional medical examination being undertaken.

    2. I think, Nurse Niall, if you read over the testimonies of the Thurles seminarians who have written on this blog, there is plenty of reason to believe that this doctor's interest, in the lads' testicles, gives much cause for concern.

  18. Des connell former Archbishop of Dublin should be invesitgated more too. More than the murphy report.

  19. Been back in Maynooth almost a week now and not a single mention of this blog among anyone. roll onto another fantastic year of serving God and his people. Another year of prayer, great friendships, hard work and service. May those who have hate in their heart for the Church find peace in their lives. God Bless.

    1. God bless you!

    2. More fool you, anon at 21:22. The world and its granny sees through the sham that is Gaynooth despite your cheerleader bullshit. You must be joking and you must think people are as stupid as you. Gaynooth, its staff and faculty, are a laughing stock, a sick joke. Everyone associated with it is now under a MASSIVE Question Mark and the big question, in everyone's minds is: Which bishops are actively gay and been having gay sex????

    3. Ha ha / one of the Gaynooth girlies is sticking up for the putrid system. Could it be the trolley dolly? LOL

  20. To follow up on Naula there's a lot more for Bishop Seamus "Forgetful" Hegarty to answer for concerning clergy abuse which happened on his watch in Raphoe.

    Falcarragh Frank

  21. to Anonymous 21:22
    even if not shouted from the rooftops, there is plenty of mention of this blog in Maynooth let me assure you of that
    Curious cat

  22. We need to remember that Father Greene and how the Raphoe diocese and its priests protected him is well documented on the BBC spotlight programme in 2002. I strongly encourage somebody to unearth that programme and put it on youtube or something. The other issue is the physical abuse of young men, being hit with fists and bullied by clerical staff, at St Eunan's College, Letterkenny. We cannot criticise the toxic seminary culture without criticising Church secondary schools that were seen as part of Catholic formation as well. It was hoped many would become priests. The stories of violence and verbal abuse from priests are horrendous.

    Read the following from
    Cleaner ?abused children in church?
    Added on January 23, 2005

    Enda Leahy

    THE first case of alleged sexual abuse of a child in a sanctified church building will go to trial in the central criminal court in Dublin later this year.

    A Donegal man, who was employed as a cleaner by the Catholic church, faces 13 counts of sexual assault and rape. He is expected to plead not guilty to the charges.

    Colm O?Gorman, the founder and head of One in Four, the Irish charity for victims of sexual abuse, said: ?I?ve never heard of any cases of this happening within the physical structure of a church. No one in our organisation has heard of such a case in fact. Though of course that?s not to say that this is the first time it has happened.?

    O?Gorman said a high proportion of child abuse took place in the diocese of Raphoe, which covers most of Co Donegal. Last year it emerged that Dr Philip Boyce, the Bishop of Raphoe, left three priests in their posts even though they were under investigation by the gardai for child abuse. Church policy at the time should have resulted in the removal of the suspects until the investigations were completed.

    Fr Eugene Greene, another priest who was based in the Raphoe diocese, is currently serving a 12-year jail sentence for offences against 26 boys.

    A BBC spotlight report on the investigation into Greene and the Raphoe diocese revealed that, despite complaints made to senior clergy as early as 1971, the church had nothing on file that could be used by garda investigators.

    Another former Donegal priest, Paul McDaid, who had been the secretary to the former bishop, Dr Seamus Hegarty, was jailed in 2003 for possession of child pornography as a result of Operation Amethyst into the illegal downloading of illicit computer images.

    ?It?s a diocese with some real issues and very particular problems,? said O?Gorman.

  23. Anonymous18 September 2016 at 21:22

    Been back in Maynooth almost a week now and not a single mention of this blog among anyone (seriously... I have heard enough from people in Maynooth.. indeed I believe a certain member of staff is very worried indeed and students have been warned about whistle blowing). roll onto another fantastic year ( for the Gay brigade and the Pink Corridor) of serving God (Satan I think you mean) and his people (his people need Holy Priests not sadistic sociopaths). Another year of prayer, great friendships, hard work and service (Don't make me guys are terrorising the guys who do pray and who want to be Holy Priests). May those who have hate(of the sin and terror you cause) in their heart for the Church (The Church is Holy, not you people who defile it) find peace in their lives. (May God intervene to save the Holy Priesthood) God Bless

  24. The Church does need holy Priests and need to be holy but when u have the likes of Deacon Georgeous and the Seminarians from Armagh, D&C and Kerry and Dublin using apps for sexual pleasures, your Church will never have holy Priests and your Church will never be holy.