Friday, 14 October 2016

FATHER FRANKIE LEE - GALWAY



A very persistent Blog reader has been in touch with me for days to say that Father Francis Lee - the former PP of Barna in had been laicised by the Vatican at the request of the Diocese of Galway.



And yet the inclusion below taken from the Galway Diocesan Website says something very different.
Very Rev Francis Lee

Ordination: Moycullen, 1989

Current appointment: Study Leave

Address: 5 Pine Grove, Moycullen, Co. Galway

Telephone: 086-8308865


It says that Father Lee is on "STUDY LEAVE".

To clear up the matter I telephoned the Galway Diocesan Administrator - Canon Michael McLoughlin - to make enquiries as there is no bishop in Galway at present. 

Canon Mc Laughlin is also the PP of Moycullen which is the address given for Father Lee. 

CANON MC LOUGHLIN - ADMINISTRATOR - GALWAY DIOCESE


The very pleasant Canon McLoughlin confirmed for me that Fr Lee has indeed been laicised and that the piece on the diocesan website was just an oversight that had not been corrected since the laicisation.

On checking this morning I see that Father Lee has been REMOVED from the diocesan website.

However Father Lee had a very public ordination in Galway and went on to have a very public ministry eventually becoming THE VERY REVEREND PP.

If the diocese went on to have him laicised by The Vatican should that laicisation not also have been made public - and public reasons given for it?

It may be that Father Lee was laicised for some obscure canonical reason?

But it may also be that he was laicised for some more serious reason the public should have been made aware of?

Our Blog reader claims that Father Lee had a very public encounter with a Garda car at night on a Galway beach?

That encounter DID NOT lead to any action by the Garda.

However Father Lee has gone on to train as a SCHOOL COUNSELLOR.

If he has finished that course and gets a job in a school I think that the school and the parents are entitled to know that he was removed from the priesthood by the Catholic Church.

You do not get removed from the priesthood petty reasons.

They have not even tried to laicise me :-)

You are laicised for very serious causes. 

All of this may be perfectly innocent.

Or it may not be.

But the public - especially the People of Galway are entitled to know those reasons.


In 2013 Father Lee's parish co-ordinator in Barna had threatened to protest outside Mass after complaints she made had not been addressed:

IRISH INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPER:

Mass protest called off after court steps in
PUBLISHED24/08/2013 

THE Labour Court has stepped in to resolve a dispute between a Catholic parish and a former employee.

The parish co-ordinator at Barna Parish in Galway, Ann Marie Horan, was threatening to picket Masses at the church tomorrow in an attempt to highlight her apparent grievances.

Ms Horan, who had been employed by the parish for the last six years, alleged that a number of complaints she had raised had not been dealt with by her employer.
SIPTU confirmed that the Labour Relations Commission had scheduled time next week for a preliminary meeting in relation to the dispute.

"It has been decided to suspend a planned protest outside the Church of Mary Immaculate Queen in Bearna, Co Galway," SIPTU sector organiser Adrian Kane said.

Was this protest connected to Father Lee who was / had been PP of Barna?

FATHER LEE - BACK ROW - FIRST FROM LEFT


CHURCH SECRECY AND IMPLICATIONS:

In this 21st century the Church should be more transparent. I thought they had learned their lessons from all the scandals we have had?

Its worth noting that in the famous case of the BOSTON GLOBE the journalists found out a lot about clerical sex abuse by looking at DIOCESAN YEAR BOOKS and following the cases of priests who had the following after their names:

1. c/o Bishop's House.

2. On sabbatical.

3. On study leave.

4. On loan to another diocese.

5. On sick leave.

6. Looking after a sick relative.


You might be interested to look through IRISH DIOCESAN WEBSITES to see how many of the above there are.

There are quite a few.



In fairness to Father Lee I called him some days ago and left a message for him to call me - so that he could put his side of the story. I postponed publishing this blog to await his call. 

To date he has not returned my call.


Has this case anything to do with the recent early retirement ON HEALTH GROUNDS of the Bishop of Galway - Martin Drennan?

BISHOP DRENNAN WITH FATHER LEE AND OTHER GALWAY PRIESTS

------------------------------------------------
BISHOP PAT'S CONTACT:

bishoppatbuckley@hotmail.com

UK: 07900 287283

IRELAND: 01 5133199

---------------------------------------

FOR INFORMATION:

Catholicism - WIKIPEDIA

Members of the Catholic Church clergy may be dismissed from the clerical state, an action known as laicization. The term "defrocking" is not normally used within the Catholic Church, although journalistic reports on laicization of Catholic clergy sometimes use it. Laicization differs from suspension. The latter is a censure prohibiting certain acts by a cleric, whether the acts are of a religious character deriving from his ordination ("acts of the power of orders") or are exercises of his power of governance or of rights and functions attached to the office he holds. As a censure, suspension is meant to cease when the censured person shows repentance. Laicization, on the contrary, is a permanent measure, whereby for a sufficient reason a cleric is from then on juridically treated as a layman. Laicization is sometimes imposed as a punishment (Latinad poenam), or it may be granted as a favour (Latin, pro gratia) at the priest's own request. New regulations issued in 2009 regarding priests who abandon their ministry for more than five years and whose behaviour is a cause of serious scandal have made it easier for bishops to secure laicization of such priests even against the priests' wishes.

108 comments:

  1. The first picture gives the impression of a bunch of freeloaders...especially yer wan showing his leg

    ReplyDelete
  2. Is that his boyfriend gazing into his eyes?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Melchizedek Patrick, some time ago I would not have been caught dead reading your Blog and yet in recent months priests the length and breadth of Ireland, and elsewhere, are reading you on a daily basis. In at least that sense, you are an essential part of the Irish Catholic church in your own rare way.

    I have been reading your correspondents’ references to Maynooth and formation. My take on this is different and involves looking at the amount of investment of resources, time, effort, finance, formation, etc. which went into getting a candidate accepted by the diocese, including through his psychological tests and profile and past a scrutiny by the Vocations’ Director.

    I imagine that all of the names you mentioned in the past week who were dismissed at the behest of Maynooth so soon after their entry into Maynooth must have in each case put in a great deal of investment of time, effort, finance and personal and family dedication to get to the stage of entering Maynooth. They would surely have gotten a green light from the Vocations’ Director and from their local church community, probably including priests known to them and also possibly by the Bishop himself. They would have given up careers and jobs and income themselves after passing their psychological tests and then entered Maynooth with the blessing of their diocese.

    I was speaking to a prominent Irish medical practitioner this morning – a practising Catholic himself - about Felim Donnelly. He said that Felin’s opinion about Maynooth would have to be taken more seriously because of his undoubted knowledge and experience in the field of family medicine and because of the obvious sacrifice of job and income involved in walking away from medicine for the church. He said he never paid much attention to scandals involving Maynooth until he heard about the dismissal of Felim and that since then he has no respect for Maynooth as an institution and less for the Bishops doing diddley squat about it.

    My take on this is that the Vocations’ Directors must have had serious qualms about the frequent early dismissals of candidates who had only recently entered Maynooth with full green lights for their intentions, abilities and attitudes to theology and community. One Vocations’ Director who must have had very serious qualms indeed would have been Rev. Kevin Doran who was not only the Vocations’ Director for Dublin but also at one time for all of Ireland and I believe, at another time, for the whole of Europe. How did he watch the formation goings on in Maynooth and say and do absolutely nothing? And nothing since his elevation to the episcopacy himself? Why do good men say nothing about obvious evils around them? This is what I cannot understand – the muzzling of so many good men. Is this what our Church has grown up to be? Muzzled and intimidated from top down?

    I don't give a damn if a priest is gay, straight or in between as long as he is a good man and carries his cross with good intentions toward all and gets on with serving the people. If he is unhappy with his job he should find the courage to leave and not to torture those around him - in Maynooth - to get his jollies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is Kevin Doran "a good man"?

      Is he not a fine exwmple of a Company Man?

      What do you think of him equating homosexuality to Downs Syndrome?

      Delete
    2. PS You make a good point about the financial investments.

      I imagine the money scandals in the Irish Church would put the sex scandals in the halfpenny place !!!

      Delete
  4. Yes, Patrick, holding with Colm O'Gorman that Kevin had a right to his opinion, I'd say Kevin was caught on the hop on the Newstalk interview, dissembled, made a complete arse of himself when he tried to ad lib and regretted it later. In my dealings with him over the years he is, at heart, a good man but I would have to agree that by now - unless he distinguishes himself by a solo run from the backward trenches of his fellow bishops - he is a company entity unlikely to break free as Sonny did in the movie I ROBOT.

    Why don't you ask him to be interviewed for your Blog? I'm sure he would agree, particularly since he is more at home giving written answers. I await your venture. He will take any chance to promote his unpopular Pro-Life stance and I have to admire that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did you know that he and I entered Clonliffe Seminary as classmates on the same day? That his room was directly opposite mine? That he and I played squash together.

      I cannot imagine him doing an interview for MY blog?

      Delete
  5. Jeez Pat, boyo, you're an awful bollox! You'll hardly be getting any more calls from Diarmuid after your postings the past week! Ha ha ha!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Who knows? Maybe he secretly admires my honesty and FREEDOM?

      Delete
  6. Kevin Doran will never fail to give an interview that promotes Pro-Life, even on your Blog. I'll bet my best chasuble. Was he a good room-mate to you?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not room mate :-) Neighbouring rooms. He was very immature - 17 - at the time. I waa 18.

      I got into trouble on this blog before by saying he had the biggest willie I ever saw.

      Some would say what a waste :-)

      Delete
    2. Not room mate :-) Neighbouring rooms. He was very immature - 17 - at the time. I waa 18.

      I got into trouble on this blog before by saying he had the biggest willie I ever saw.

      Some would say what a waste :-)

      Delete
  7. If Diarmuid's your secret admirer, look out for a horse's head in your bed -

    ReplyDelete
  8. PS: Im hardly as big a bollox as The Archbollox Clifford of Cashel, am I :-)

    ReplyDelete
  9. Since Archbishop Diarmuid Martin has given the green light to communications with you by bishops I don't see Kevin Doran having any objection to writing for your Blog. They all more or less have to follow the example of Diarmuid don't they?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Like you, Patrick, Kevin Doran knows what it is to be an outsider for some years. Almost Archbishop Diarmuid Martin's first act after his installation was the expulsion of rumoured pretender to his throne Kevin Doran to the Siberia of St Kevins Glendalough, only rescued from there by the resurrection power of the Eucharistic Conference. He understands years of isolation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was not aware of that.

      But can you equate KD's few years as PP of Glendalough to my 31 years in outer, outer Siberia :- )

      Maybe I should expect a vacant diocese :-)

      Delete
    2. DM has no time at all for KD.

      Senior Cleric Dublin.

      Delete
  11. Very interesting read about galway priest, I wonder what Father Gerry Garvey would be thinking now if the truth could be revealed from his grave. We all know what Gerry died of and how Father L used him for many years. The problem with Father L he could never keep anything closed. When in Maynooth he tried to be friends withall around him, if he was not successful he would spend his days in Dublin looking for friends.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What did poor Fr Gerry die of? At this juncture I am sure he would not mind us knowing.

      It might even protect others?

      Delete
  12. Not alone did Kevin Doran get expulsed to St Kevin's, Glendalough, about as far from Clonliffe as geographically possible, the Dublin seminarians were informed by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin's newly-appointed liaison with them - the then Fr. Des Hayden - not to have any further contact with the former Vocations' Director. You begin to see the real character of Diarmuid The Knife - far from the carefully-crafted media persona easily given by that organ of record, The Irish Chimes.

    I think Kevin would respond honestly and charitably to your Siberian request to an interview for your Blog.

    You'll be back in the Fold one fine day. Didn't Cardinal Hume successfully negotiate the entry of all of those married Anglican vicars into our Catholic priesthood, wives, children and all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But they never challenged "THE POWER" !

      Delete
    2. One of my clergy friends was in the irish college when the then fr doran was spiritual director. One point in his favour was that he wasn't part of the wounded healer/john Fleming alliance. Apparently their lack of rapport was obvious. Whatever else about him he isn't a wounded healer appointment.

      Delete
    3. That has to be one point in his favour.

      Delete
  13. Many of your commentators are being unduly unfair to +DM. Whom he loves he loves. He will not be pushed. You who complained to him verbally about the Pro Cathedral pushed him. He will not be pushed. You who sent him detailed letters of complaint about the Pro Cathedral pushed him. He will not be pushed. You who communicated complaints to him through Paul Callan about the Pro Cathedral pushed him. He will not not love those favourites of his whom he loves. No greater love hath a man than to give up his credibility and integrity for his loves. Now bugger off and suck it up. He will not be pushed.

    ReplyDelete
  14. We will leave Gerry in his grave but you could always ask our classmate the Galway priest who is now on the staff in Maynooth about his close friend Fr.L.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Who is the Maynooth priest from Galway?

      Delete
  15. I hope the true horrible of FATHER GERRY GARVEY come out now on this blog.

    I can assure you Pat it is a real CAN OF WORMS.

    But the TRUTH needs to be told.

    Galway PP.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Did Fr Gerry die of AIDS?

    Who infected him?

    Barna Housewife.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Father Garvey is in your picture third from top - front row - first from right.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Why do young men need formation
    A young groom doesn't apart from his new wife telling him that he now has to share responsibility and stop his bolloxing around
    Job done
    Please stop trying to form young men for priesthood
    All that should come naturally through his parish work, studies and prayer
    If he needs sex LEAVE...THAT IS UNTIL RULES CHANGE?
    Yes he will make mistakes, but who cares
    TBHonest,I think it's sinful to try and mess with anyone's thinking or way of being
    All this psychobabble is totally wrong and unchristian .

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anyone who thinks Fr Lee was laicised for some obscure canonical reason or for something perfectly innocent isn't living in the real world. As you say yourself priests are laicised for very serious causes.
    Your Blog reader says he was seen on a Galway beach at night. Galway beaches at night are synonymous with gay men looking for a bit of action. That could be the clue as to why he was laicised.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Priesthood is a mysterious and secretive charism requiring, in Ireland, approx 7 years of degradation, denigration, humiliation and unswerving application to all of the dicktates of even an insane and highly sexually frustrated Formator and total Bollox of a Weirdo Bishop. What planet are YOU on?

    ReplyDelete
  21. If a priest who was caught cruising in a gay cruising area was repentant he would normally be sent off for help - like Rory Coyle - and given a second chance.

    Personally I would think it would take more than gay cruising - especially once - to have a priest laicised.

    This story is bigger than that.

    The story also concerns poor Father Gerard Garvey RIP.

    What dark secrets are lurking in the cellars of Bishop's House, Galway?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Can cruising be cured, Pat?

    ReplyDelete
  23. Possibly Money
    Root of all evil
    Sure Galway the Capital of sinful goingson, it's all the sea and sand mixed up with vodka and all sorts of coke


    Then one can pop down to Knock and have hallucinations just like they do in medjagory. Sorry my iPad hasn't come across that word yet so I don't know how to spell it...but I did go 3 times, just for the craic

    ReplyDelete
  24. Galway priest in Maynooth is Professor in Faith and Culture

    ReplyDelete
  25. Pat.

    Surely the one thing missing from your blog is Mercy.

    One of the core christian values.

    Never judge another man until you have walked a thousand miles in his shoes.

    Even Jesus said, Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Perhaps he was caught cruising but (unlike Rory Coyle) opted to be laicised? You rightly point out that a priest can only be laicised for serious reasons, but to be fair the exception is where a priest chooses it. If he choose to go then fair play, but yes there may also be a story behind this.

    At the moment I am thinking of a priest who is on 'study leave'. Again, just to be fair he is actually doing a course which will be fruitful when he returns to ministry. It is another shame within the church that Bishop's office so easily use innocent appearance to cover not so innocent situations thereby muddying the appearance of Priests who are genuinely on leave.

    @16:08
    You make an interesting point - and your solution is how priests were formed until about 1500AD. Did you know that Maynooth formators all go to the one course in the US and study some type of psychology for a year. Compare that duration with an actual course in psychology. These formators come back thinking they are experts in formation and proceed to do savage quantities of damage to young men who they attempt to dismantle and put back together. Inevitably they just dismantle them and throw them out of Maynooth because they don't know how to put them back together; (they stopped listening by that time in their course).... Oh well, Anybody for a game of golf over at Carlton House lads?

    ReplyDelete
  27. Pat, amazed with Galway situation ,my God the lies and half truths are now coming out. Only the other day I was in a coffee shop close to Mr.Lee who was boasting about how he was going to negotiate a settlement from the Diocese and how he has had over 4 years of a salary, and lived rent free. You could say Drennan looked after him well but the rumours in galway are that he was disillusioned and decided to reinvent himself. Obviously not!!!

    ReplyDelete
  28. In the last picture with bishop - who the priest on the right - I have seen him in the irish college in Rome?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Fr Michael Conway, a well known, extreme liberal, widely believed to not own a clerical collar.

    ReplyDelete

  30. Interesting article today - Fr Frankie Lee was the chaplain in NUIG for my years there. Must have been something major for him to leave?

    ReplyDelete
  31. What about another Galway priest Fr Alan Burke - it was announced he went on sabbatical the same day as Bishop Drennan retired - he was only ordained in recent years and was the main man in Galway cathedral - what happened there?

    ReplyDelete

  32. Fr Hugh Clifford, Director of Formation (Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh & Kilfenora)

    ReplyDelete
  33. Sounds like strange things happening in Galway. Any truth in the rumour that the ex-formator Donal O'Neill is hiding out there?

    ReplyDelete
  34. Maybe Alan Burke and Conor Cunningham could help us understand Galway better?

    ReplyDelete
  35. POPE FRANCIS MORNING MEDITATION IN THE CHAPEL OF THE DOMUS SANCTAE MARTHAE
    From gossip to love for others - Friday, 13 September 2013
    (by L'Osservatore Romano, Weekly ed. in English, n. 38, 18 September 2013)

    Gossip kills more than weapons do. Pope Francis returned to this topic on Friday morning, 13 September, at Mass in the Chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae. Commenting on the day’s Readings, taking from the Letter of Timothy (1:1-2, 12-14) and from the Gospel of Luke 6: 39-42), the Pope stressed how the Lord — after setting forth in the past few days the attitudes of meekness, humility and magnanimity — “speaks to us today of the contrary”, of the “hateful attitude to one’s neighbour” that happens when one “judges one’s brother”.

    Pope Francis recalled the Gospel story in which Jesus rebukes those who pretend to remove the speck from the other’s eye without seeing the beam in their own. This behaviour, feeling perfect and qualified to judge the defects of others, is contrary to the meekness and humility which the Lord compares to “that light which is so beautiful and which is found in forgiving”. Jesus uses “ a strong word: hypocrite — those live judging their neighbour, speaking evil of their neighbour. They are hypocrites because they don’t have the strength, the courage to look at their own defects. The Lord doesn’t say too much about this. Then, later he was to say: he who has hate in his heart for his brother is a murderer. He says this. The Apostle John says this very clearly in his first Letter: who hates his brother walks in darkness. He who judges his brother is a murderer”. Therefore, “everytime we judge our brother in our hearts or worse when we speak badly of them with others, we are murdering Christians.”

    Recalling how in these day there is talk of wars in the world that kill so many, especially children and are forcing so many to flee to refuge, Pope Francis asked whether it is possible to have “the right to kill”, speaking evil of others, triggering “this daily war of gossip”. Actually, “slander always moves in the direction of crime. There is no such thing as innocent slander. And this is Gospel truth”. Therefore “in this time when we are imploring for peace perhaps an act of conversion is necessary”. To all the “no”s of every kind of weapon, let’s say “‘no’ to this weapon too”, the weapon of slander because it is “deadly”.

    The Pontiff concluded invoking, “for us, for all the Church, the grace of conversion of the crime of slander in humility, in mildness and in magnanimity of love for others”.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is "mercy" a cure for corruption, lies, injustice and persecution?

      Prophetic Challenge for main course and true mercy for desert.

      Delete
  36. Conor Cunningham????

    ReplyDelete

  37. Come on whats happening in Galway?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Maybe ......

    Parish Pilgrimage to the Holy Land

    Fr. Alan with his friend Fr. Conor Cunningham, Lisdoonvarna, led a pilgrimage to the Holy Land visiting Nazareth, Jerusalem, the Via Dolorosa, The Holy Sepulchre, Mount Tabor, Galillee and many other places of interest.

    My fellow pilgrims and I gained a profound understanding of our religion through the scripture readings and masses offered by the priests accompanying us.

    ReplyDelete
  39. So there was a more important reason why bishop of galway left - strange how stubborn he was on not resigning after Dublin scandal. Seems there is a lot going on in Galway - investigate Pat+

    ReplyDelete

  40. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/galway-priest-takes-leave-of-absence-over-child-safety-inquiry-1.2672084

    ReplyDelete
  41. Strange how gossip is welcomed in formation rooms in seminaries and in chancelleries in bishops' palaces to harm people but is suddenly unwelcome when it's unmasking evil and corruption

    ReplyDelete

  42. Takes us on a trip to the wild west Pat+

    ReplyDelete

  43. Every day more and more evil is being unearthed - its simple the national seminary is riddled so it would have to be the case that the diocese are also.

    Every day - the chances of Pope Francis coming to the Ireland are getting less and less - the catholic church in the country is amid ruin - no longer the land of saints - I'm afraid thats no more - we are scandal !!

    ReplyDelete
  44. Very strange about this new priest in the fold - only a Rev - so he is pretty new and now in serious trouble. I have heard he was refused as an applicant in Clonfert and within months was accepted in Galway - where are the checks and balances

    ReplyDelete
  45. @19:57
    Agreed. Like most things in the Church, there are no rules for those in the inner circle and constantly changing goal posts for all others.

    ReplyDelete

  46. Where did these priests do their training? is there any connection

    ReplyDelete
  47. Pat time to play the TRUMP card - set the operation in motion now.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Gossip kills more than weapons do-but the truth sets you free
    Pat, well done for opening the door and exposing those hiding behind the collar.
    It's now time they realise that we all know who and what they are.
    When you hear your local priest going on a foreign holiday what is there intention, is it sex tourism?
    Time to come out Lads,Ireland is accepting.
    Conor Cunningham and Alan Burke mentioned-what a pair,if you could hear their confessions Pat, you would be shocked.

    ReplyDelete

  49. I want to hear their confessions - this is an absolute joke now - the amount of money i spent on him - collections after collections , he was the poster boy of the diocese

    ReplyDelete
  50. Follow the puzzle ....

    https://www.facebook.com/Lisdoon/photos/pb.131790796854283.-2207520000.1476472945./1210816948951657/?type=3&theater

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is it my imagination - or are a number of Galway priests suddenly closing down their social media accounts?

      Delete
  51. It seems to me Pat - what you started with Maynooth earlier in the summer has now opened up a complete gashing wound over the last week we have seen links between UK - USA and IRELAND - Keep going Pat

    Need an insiders view - is there a club ? whats the connection ? who is the king pin

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes there is a club - an international one - seminaries, diocese, religious orders, bishops, Vatican.

      I think there are some very big kings !!!

      Delete
  52. wow, Niall McDonagh was courting the media as a seminarian ever before he entered seminary. What ever happened the quiet men who just wanted to put their head down and minister quietly in a parish?

    ReplyDelete

  53. its 2016 - seminarians have their own PR manager , stylists and the like and guess who pays for it all - YOU DO

    ReplyDelete

  54. good looking priest he will be - imagine him and gorgeous the damage

    ReplyDelete
  55. What is going on in the church? are there any good people left. You know what I dont care about Gay priests , its 2016 they should be able to be with whoever they want. My problem is the dishonesty about it. do we not learn from the scandals of the past - i dont think the irish church can deal with another

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It will have to.

      Its speeding down the tracks!

      Delete
  56. MourneManMichael14 October 2016 at 21:10

    Yesterday 13/10 @ 21:37. TRS gave a link to an article by seminarian in Catholic Voice on 3/4/2011, titled "Is Maynooth Fit for Purpose?
    I found this an interesting article, written as it was, before all the present criticisms of the Maynooth system. It criticised what even then, in 2011, appeared to be an ultra progressive and liberal interpretation of Roman Catholicism, Christianity, sexuality, and the role of the RC church and its priesthood.

    Would it be fair comment to regard the present Maynooth crisis, and indeed that of the RC church in general, as part of the ever present and continually evolving clash between old rigid orthodoxies and emerging reinterpretations and understandings of the Christian message?
    In this mileau, thousands of differently understood threads of belief are being examined, challenged and reinterpreted. Inevitably much friction in opinions and beliefs arise, only for the waters of honest debate to be further muddied by inter-personal conflicts and point scoring. To be open to a new understanding feels threatening for many, and it could be argued that those in the rigidly orthodox camp suffer from a limited capacity for new understanding, being bedevilled by their background of rigid Thomistic philosophical and theological understanding.

    Even looking back to our own brief lifetime and changes to previously dogmatically held beliefs: compulsory Mass on Sunday (not on Saturday evening!); no meat on Friday; priests only handle the Eucharist etc etc. Such previous "beliefs" are now largely disregarded. Will current debate about clerical celibacy, female priests, abortion etc, in future ages be superfluous as cumulative reinterpretation moves from debating the issues to their widespread acceptance?
    It's interesting that Pope Francis as least in public seems less rigidly dogmatic on certain RC beliefs than his predecessors. His emphasis on non judgmental love and understanding seems more in keeping with the central Christian message than the rigidity of the 'hellfire and brimstone' moralistic interpretation of the gospels and magisterium.
    We're only at 2016. What 'shape' will RC belief have in 4032 if 'we', and 'it', are still around?
    MMM

    ReplyDelete
  57. @20:56
    As a former seminarian I must say I don't have a problem with gay priests or seminarians either. I have a problem with the circle of gay seminarians and priests who bully heterosexuals out of the seminary; who use the seminary as a sex circle and who deny their true selves while having casual sex instead of living celibacy.

    Pat, we need to keep digging.

    What is going on in Galway? In Dublin's Pro Cathedral? In Maynooth? In the bishop's conference building, known as Columba House? In seemingly countless Grindr accounts? On the beach in Galway?

    Why was Donal O'Neill encouraging seminarians to take trips like his to San Francisco to see Marde Gras? As it turns out he was not gay himself but he promoted the gay students and trod upon the heterosexual students... He had nothing to gain, unless he is bisexual? Or is there an agenda pushing for only gay priests?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is not about individual priests having occasional or regular "lapses".

      This is about an international aggressive gay cabal overtaking the church at every level and deliberately causing destruction and havoc.

      The agenda? Destruction of the Church?

      Delete
  58. @ Pat, 21:18
    An aggressive gay cabal taking over the church would certainly tie in with my experience of the clerical world.

    If that is their agenda then they are doing a great job of it, especially in Ireland. Believing in the teachings of the Church is is gobsmacking how any person can take such beautiful teachings, miss their point and destroy so much. There is no shortage of vocations in Ireland, rather there is a shortage of vocations in the clerical world.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is the same in UK, USA, Italy, Germany, Australia, etc etc.

      Delete
  59. Did a quick check on sme northern dioceses eg Derry and Down and Connor and there is indeed quite a few MIAs - where are they? are they still priests or have they been laicised? The whole thing is to quote Charlie Haughey - GUBU!

    ReplyDelete
  60. Laicizfeknation is a process I went through at the request of my former bishop and out of respect for him. The document itself is "top secret" and not meant to be shown to anyone. A person still remains sacramentally a priest. One can not fart sideways in Church related circles without appropriate permissions. One is even desuaded from having any public role in other denominations. A person is interviewed over a period and the content forwarded to Rome for approval

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If laicisation does not stop you being a priest - which it does not - why do it.

      Just resign or retire.

      Delete
    2. As I said I did it as a good will gesture but was quite shocked when I saw the small print. For all that happened I do not hold any ill will against my former colleagues at this stage

      Delete
  61. I guess like any organisation, the church has its own administrative procedures. Like a doctor being removed from the register, it doesn't stop them 'being' a doctor but it does mean that they no longer practice as such.

    ReplyDelete
  62. The way ministry is done in the Catholic Church is unhealthy but fixable.
    In Bible tradition, the father of the house was also its priest. Abraham was considered to be a priest despite not being ordained. Melchizidek as well. Mormonism has restored the tradition of ordaining fathers so most Mormon males are ordained. Priests are given the authority to administer baptism and give communion.
    If I were pope, I would provide training for anybody who was interested in being the family priest so that they can do Mass for the family if nothing else. I think that can happen and complement the ministerial priest who has full priesthood rights. There is no reason why a priesthood cannot be given to any worthy male within limits who does not want to live as a fulltime priest.
    Considering that the Church regards the sacraments as the means to salvation, it follows that limiting them in any unnecessary way is a sin and unCatholic. Thus any worthy man should be empowered to do Mass and to do absolution (perhaps only if the other person is in danger of death).
    This is an idea that must be looked at. Bishops need to recognise that the pope has no right to restrict things so much so disobedience to papal decrees may be justified if dialogue on the subject fails.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 22.16 Well said. There is something called an agape meal which is Eucharistic but not with the official seal of approval. The head of household still presides at Jewish Passover

      Delete
  63. That's a very good point. A laicised priest is still expected to hear a confession if the penitent is in danger of death but he is banned from all other priestly functions. Some priests have also been delaicised and are ministering sacramentally again!

    ReplyDelete
  64. Today's blog seems to agree that while Kevin Doran was banished to not a 'horrible' parish it was nevertheless a Siberian one.

    A Day in The Life of Kevin Doranovich.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kevin still got his pointy hat though. A rarity for someone apparently "banished".

      Delete
    2. One in the eye for his banisher!

      Delete
  65. Remember laicisation and dismissal from the clerical state are totally different procedures.

    Laicisation is a voluntary procedure requested by a priest - as in the case of Sean. The person ASKS to be freed from the obligations and duties of the priesthood and returned to the lay state.

    The PP of Barna- it seems - was DISMISSED from the clerical state by Bishop Drennan. This is a penalty incurred and done for very grave reasons. The priest has no say in the matter. In fact, it is often done without his consent.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Has this Australian priest been in any headlines or news in Ireland. Just wondering.

    Why has the Irish Church deemed this Australian priest 'suspicious' and "banned from preaching in Ireland", and not it's own clerics?

    See

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/cardinal-pell-associate-banned-from-preaching-in-ireland-over-abuse-allegations-20161006-grwxlh.html

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-23/john-walshe-accused-of-sexual-abuse/7051050

    http://www.catholica.com.au/forum/index.php?id=190645

    ReplyDelete
  67. I have been reading through this blog over the last few days and have come to the conclusion that I can no longer take the Church seriously. What I have read is quite shocking and reflects an organization in complete turmoil and an organization that I no longer wish to have anything to do with. I was baptized and brought up Catholic and for 50 years I have tried my best........but reading through this has led me to the conclusion that there is absolutely no point to it. If this is what the Church is and how the Church is led then the compete lack of honesty, decency and dare I say 'Christianity' suggests to me that the Church has absolutely no foundation. Humanism is clearly a better path.....and I mean that. If this Is the Church how can it claim to be the body of Christ..........why would anybody want to go to Mass or listen to any of these charlatans. I am finished with it all. And there is nothing written here that in any way redeems the Church in my eyes. I am surprised I have lasted this long.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Remember-the church is not God.

      Dont throw the baby out with the dirty water?

      Delete
    2. Remember-the church is not God.

      Dont throw the baby out with the dirty water?

      Delete
    3. What's your solutions to these issues Pat?
      You mentioned 'Mercy' in a previous post, is it not a small part of the healing process?
      Continued knocking of the Church and it's stuctures points to me of gross bitterness and hatred from you because of your injustices from the past. In life, nothing is perfect the Church included but as a person that has been assessing the situation constantly I see a Church in a healing mode offering 'mercy and forgiveness' to all and working hard to change and unshackle the injustices it has done from the past. Is this not what we all should be trying to achieve? You included?
      Holding bitterness and grudge bears heavily on ones mind and body, I for one have experience of that having been seriously sexually abused as a teenager by my grandfather and am able to put it all behind me and move on with my life. I can assure you my church and Faith helped greatly with this process. My advice to you from a person that hurt badly, move on and start working to help not continue to show hatred and resentment. You have a part to play here and all human race has something to offer.

      Delete
  68. The absent priests... There seems a difference between a priest on 'study leave' and a priest on 'sabbatical studies', the latter being innocent. I notice a man on 'study leave' who has vanished off the diocese website. He seems to have gone the same route as his former vocations director.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Pat have you seen the picture of Fr Alan Burke Galway and the Papal Nuncio Charles Brown
    put it up worth a look.Then look at Fr Connor pictures!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think it is high time for Charles Brown to pack his bags. For a papal nuncio, he's way TOO FAMILIAR, TOO MUCH in the middle of all these "strange goings on"!!

      Delete
    2. Is it this picture with Bourke fawning over Charlie?

      http://connemarajournal.ie/papal-visit-marked-in-oughterard/

      Delete
  70. MourneManMichael15 October 2016 at 10:54

    To Anon @00:38: Yes Humanism is an entirely sensible course for one with no belief in a god centred created and organised universe. It is my own personal following having arrived there long years after departing RC orthodoxy and discovering that in Humanism, there is an entirely logical framework for understanding life and its meaning.
    Information on Humanism is readily available online but for starters if, like me, you prefer dipping into a book, try Stephen Law's "Very Short introduction to Humanism", or Peter Cave's Beginners Guide to Humanism.
    A much weightier tome, not specifically related to Humanism, but instructive in putting religion into perspective, is Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion". But it's heavy reading.
    Another course worth considering for anyone hesitant in abandoning all belief in a God, is to consider Unitarianism beliefs. I have a couple of very good friends of that persuasion and see much to commend in it. Check out the Wiki summary.
    MMM

    ReplyDelete
  71. I love God. "In the midst of his existence there forms a bond (re-ligio) which ties him to the infinitely transcendent mystery of God, the insatiable interest in the Absolute that captivates it and underlines his poverty" Johannes B Metz. I am not at all impressed by the institution at the moment and I can always discern the difference.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Galway priests have worked hard for many years building Community's and spreading the Gospel, only some are spending time out on the prowl looking for men!

    ReplyDelete
  73. Have you noticed Alan Burke is no longer listed as a priest of Galway Diocese?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Why can't people mind thier own business fr lee was a very good priest ge did nothing but good for every one it's a great loss to the church to see him go his private life is none of anyone business ad far as o can see there is a witch hunt across the world against priests pray for them

    ReplyDelete
  75. We nray more for priest they are chosen by god it looks like the thier is a grudge against fr lee he was kind to every one let ge who is without sin cast the first stone pray for him and the people who are spewing out poised against him and other priests

    ReplyDelete