Saturday, 17 December 2016

NUNS AND SEX

                                                                    NUNS AND SEX




We have spent  lot of time and energy on this Blog discussing the sex lives of priests and seminarians - straight and gay.

Have we been guilty of discrimination?

What about the sex lives of that larger body of religious in the Catholic Church - THE NUNS?

My first teacher was a nun - Mother Carmel - of Carlow.

She appeared to me at the time to be about 7 foot tall and 4 foot wide. At the time - I was 4 - I was convinced that nuns and priests had a special operation that meant that they did not have to do "dirty" things like go to the toilet. Of course at that age sex never entered my imagination.

Now - 60 years later - I know that while many nuns are celibate and chaste a fair number of them do have very healthy sex lives!

In my 40 years in the priesthood I have had TWO NUN STALKERS.




There was SISTER PIUS (not her real name) when I was 26 years old and working in Belfast. She was a nurse. When I became friendly with her I simply regarded her like one of my 6 sisters. I had no other thoughts in my mind. BUT SHE HAD!

She would invite me for lunch to one of the parlours in the convent. Other nuns would be having lunch with THEIR PRIEST in other parlours. 

Then I made a fatal mistake. She asked if she could do my laundry - and I allowed her to!

That was it in her eyes - we were SPECIAL.

I also made the mistake of taking her on holidays with my parents and I to Donegal for two weeks. She made sure she became very close friends with my mother - a proper "daughter in law".

Eventually she became very smothering and I was not supposed to talk to any other woman. 

When I "broke it off" she went crazy. She even broke into a consultant's office and filing cabinet in a hospital and removed and copied my medical notes!


I had my SECOND NUN STALKER when I was in Kilkeel - Sister Rose (not her real name).

She wanted complete control of my life and I was not allowed to be friendly with the other nuns in the convent where I was chaplain. 

I used to have breakfast with the nuns after Mass. One morning she accused the new Reverend Mother of leaving a button open on her blouse so that I could get a glimpse of her clevage. Sister Rose threw a wobbler and the Reverend Mother ran out of the room in a flood of tears. 




For obvious reasons I am not a cleavage man - and I am certainly not a cleavage man at 7.30 on a cold Winter morning :-)

That "relationship" ended in tears too.


Being a nun, to my mind, is a very "unnatural" life.

Not only do these ladies have to cope with not having partners, not marrying etc - but they have to cope with the very strong mothering instinct that is, thank God, part of being a woman.

Add to that - locking up 20 or 30 of them in the same building and you have the recipe for a proper WAR OF THE WOMBS.

Of course I understand - and respect - the fact that not every woman wants to marry and be a mother and that many such women follow marvellous careers in the world and make remarkable contributions to life.

But for most woman partnered love, marriage and having children is the way.

And let me say that of course I respect and admire those women who feel called by God to the religious life. Such women have made great sacrifices and have contributed in untold ways to areas like teaching and nursing. But I think it is for a "few".




A number of years ago Gay Byrne's LATE LATE SHOW caused great controversy when it interviewed TWO LESBIAN NUNS Nancy Manahan and Rosemary Curb.


A nun and a priest forming a partnership and having sex together is another very common happening in the Catholic Church. In the USA it is called THE THIRD WAY.




In my 40 years in the priesthood I have come across:

- nuns who had sex with priests
- nuns who had sex with lay men
- nuns who had sex with nuns
- nuns who had sex with lay women
- nuns who have had babies
- nuns who have had abortions
- nuns who spoke of having a compulsive masturbation habit
- nuns who have sexually abused children

You see - NUNS ARE REALLY NO DIFFERENT than other women and other human beings.

They are - like all of us - sexual beings. 

I am not sorry to see orders of religious nuns going out of existence.

You see women who want to serve God should be allowed to be priests - and married priests at that. 

It will take a long time to happen in the Catholic Church.

BUT IT WILL HAPPEN!















85 comments:

  1. Just wondering Pat if the sexual frustration of Nuns led some of them to physically abuse. Im not saying this to excuse them in anyway but just wondered about the possible link.

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    1. I think so.

      When you try and deny such powerful forces as the sexual instinct and the reproductive instinct you can create monsters.

      Delete
    2. ???
      Didn't realise that you were such a charmer!

      Delete
    3. I agree, could not the same be said for celibacy and denying the sexual instinct. It's unnatural which is why certain heterosexual and homosexual priests can't cope suppressing their sexual feelings. Look at Rory Coyle and now Fr X. Are these not examples of that.
      Derry Priest

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    4. I dont think I was a charmer - just very open and friendly.

      I think the nuns were lonely and looking for a priest "husband".

      In both cases they were older than me and there was also a certain mothering aspect.

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    5. I don't think you can excuse Coyle or worse still, Fr X for being suppressed homos.

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    6. As I said on yesterday's blog, perhaps it's now a time to lay off Fr X and his young boyfriend. They have not done anything illegal and the young lad should not be punished for any wrongdoing, he's innocent in all of this.

      Delete
    7. Time to "lay off" Fr X and "his young boyfriend"? It hasn't even started, Fr X. You ain't seen nothin' yet. Just you wait til the mainstream media are outside your front door in ********.

      The Orange/DUP "twink" is an idiot and very foolish. But don't worry, Fr X. The main focus of attention will be on YOU - mostly on YOU.

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    8. If you intend being around the Merchant Hotel Christmas evening then it might be worth seeing who will be there. Cocktail bar, Dinner, cocktail bar again and then the suite afterwards.
      Ex Merchant Employee

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    9. Just as surely as Jonathan Bell "shot" his political career in the head by going on with Nolan, so too, Fr X, by going on this blog and writing what he wrote, "shot in the head" his career in the RC Church.

      The Fr X story now has a life of its own way beyond Pat Buckley's blog. Pat's blog might post updates when it breaks and update his readers on the fall out; but Fr X and "Toot" are subject of greater interests and scrutiny now. There is no going back.

      Fr X's own pathology is responsible for this situation - no one and nothing else.

      "In the know",
      Comber.

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    10. The question is Fr X North or South of the Border. Seems to treat his boy around Belfast a lot. Young lad was on the stage with Arlene singing Arlene's on fire at party conference. Watch it on YouTube and try picking him out

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    11. 17:27, I've just watched that video clip on YouTube.

      Is Fr X's young butt the faired-haired guy at the front with pink piping on his jacket?

      Delete
    12. Fr X is based South of the border but originally from the North - from a small village in Co Armagh.

      Yes, the bucko is in the video, "Arlene's on fire", leapin' about near the front.

      Foster's "fire" has cost the NI taxpayer 500 million. "Our wee country's a great wee country" - eh?

      Hopefully, however, Fr X's regular patronage of the Merchant Hotel - and all the lolly he is spending on "Toot" at various commercial outlets - will quickly feed back into the economy - and make for the Pravince's speedy financial recovery!

      Redundant Spad,
      Ballybeen.

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    13. 16:08, be careful with your emotions here. You sound like someone eager for revenge.

      What consequences of this exposé occur may be partly down to you. You, me, and others are not free of moral culpability.

      Delete
    14. The consequences of this exposé are ENTIRELY and UTTERLY down to Fr X's exposure of himself on this blog - his sexual relationship with a teenage boy - his flagrant flouting of the standards he is solemnly obliged to uphold and maintain. Your pathetic and disgusting attempts to "spread the blame" is typical of perverts and their apologists. "Sure we are all as bad as each other". Bullshit! Some people try to live moral lives. Even when they fail, they begin again. This degenerate "priest" waves his depravities in the faces of everyone. He deserves what is coming.

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    15. Why is this young boy called "Toot"?

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    16. 00:29, set aside your vengeful anger for a time and contemplate the word 'justice' . When you've finished (and ONLY then), contemplate the word 'mercy'.

      I have to say that you appear to be taking this matter personally. It's an interesting twist to a sordid story. Er, did Fr X spurn you for the boy? Just thinking out loud.

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    17. I agree with 00.29, perhaps it's just jealousy.

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    18. Yes,10:58, the motive of the commentor at 00:29 does indeed appear to be jealousy.

      That old adage was wrong: its not just scorned women whose fury hell cannot match, but cast-aside queers.

      Delete
    19. 10:15, 10:58 and 11:26 - this is typical of you sicko "friends" of Fr X - to try and drag everybody else down to the level of your own degeneracy and perverseness.

      My anger has nothing to do with "jealousy" at being "cast-aside" by this weirdo Fr X - he and you lot wish!

      My anger is caused by yet another false "priest" about to unleash another storm of scandal upon a battered and weary Church.

      God will deal with all of you in His own good time. You won't be so smart after you draw your last breaths and are face to face with the God you mock and blaspheme by your daily sacrileges.

      However, before that inevitable moment, you will also face some earthly accountability for your shocking and abominable lives, which are an affront to faithful Catholics and their true priests.

      "Even now is the axe laid to the roots of the tree...."

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    20. Get over yourself, total over the top apocalyptic response. The lady does protesteth too much dear.

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    21. 14:32, you ain't seen apocalyptic yet, missus.

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    22. 15:45, only in your fevered and scorned imagination, duckie. Or to put it simply enough for even you to understand: 'you...wish!' (Your own words, too.)

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    23. 18:38 - you are truly vile. You are only demonstrating further the demonic perversity and pure evil that lies at the heart of Fr X, his supporters and the further scandal they are about to cause to the Church. You will all roast in Hell.

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    24. 20:30, you need to lie down for a while.

      Fascetiousness aside, seek professional help as soon as possible.

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    25. Yeah whatever. You are pathetic.

      Delete
  2. The picture you show of the "lesbian nun on the late late show" is misleading. That is Sr Maura who was on the panel that night with Fr Raphael Gallagher and was not one of the two lesbian ex nuns whose book caused such a sensation at the time.

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  3. A bit off subject but according to Patsy McGarry in the Irish Times Maynooth Seminary are advertising for a new President to replace Hugh Connolly. The applicant must be a priest in good standing over 35 years of age !

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    1. Pat! Here's your chance, I dare you!

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  4. I've been acquainted with nuns who seemed infantilised by institutional living. They were saintly women and were often put upon by the more assertive and robust sisters. There was even an apartheid system in convents up to relatively recently where the poorer, uneducated lay sisters were not even allowed to dine with the more professional ones who came from comfortable backgrounds. Many orders had a dowry system even. Some congregations focused on the poor. Others cornered the more genteel market, teaching respectable young ladies. The nuns did great good but at what cost to the personal happiness of many of its devoted and selfless sisters? Behind the piousity there was often deep psychological depressions. Some nuns in laundries were sadists. Others were victims themselves who became victimisers. A lot of healing needs to be done as many poor people were marked for life by the cruelty and class victimisation. I think it's a good thing these congregations are dying out. They were often just a product of the culture and needs of their time. Obedience to the reverend mother was absolute. We're in a different time now and thankfully the state funds education and medical care.

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  5. There just like me an you Pat, like a wee bit from time to time!

    We all break the rules and sin but I'm sure Nuns are no different.

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  6. I am a retired married woman and I have a lot of very high quality books on theology which I love reading. The split in the church is silly. Lay people are sexual and priests and nuns are spiritual. I think most people are both.

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    1. What's black and white and goes - Thud, thud, thud?

      A nun falling down a stairs :-)

      What's black and white and goes - Ha, ha, ha?

      The nun that pushed her :-)

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  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Pay no attention to aul misery hole at 14.55 keep the jokes coming . I know this topic is serious but we are allowed to laugh also yes the jokes are cheesey but sure there the best kind

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  10. It remains amazing that the Church still holds that a person cannot be devoted to God and have a sex life. Jesus came so that we may have life, and have it in its fullest. He chose a married man as his right hand, our first pope. God created us entirely; he created us with sexual instincts and urges - and even with those he asked us to follow him.

    This practice of celibacy has clear side effects; unfulfilled priests, sexually vulnerable priests and priests who take advantage of the sexually vulnerable. These are just some dysfunctions.

    Pat, I understand the uncomfortable position you found yourself in - that was not easy. But clearly both women involved were vulnerable and unfulfilled. They threw themselves at you in a possessive manner, infantile in attitude and high risk in nature. I hope that they went on to a healthier stage in life.

    Having said all of that I wish to add that I'm sure there have been other people attracted to you over the years and it has all been handled in a healthier way, particularly by suitors who will have not even made you aware of their attraction due to you being unavailable to them at the sexual level - or indeed they themselves having their own vows.

    I spent many a year in seminary. It was hard because of celibacy. I think I'd have made a good priest, but alas I would be vulnerable to that open blouse even at 7:30am on a cold morning. I'm better off in a married state - I'd be better still in a clerical married state. But it would be unwise for me to have proceeded into a clerical celibate state. Please God we will have children in the coming years.

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    1. I was very kind to the two nuns in question and did my very best to try and have a healthy friendship with them. But they found that hard.

      Both were good woman in many ways and contributed to nursing and teaching.

      But I think they really needed husbands and children.

      Yes, I have other people of various kinds who expressed feeling for me.

      I always tried and handle these situations with love, respect and sensitivity.

      I'm sure every priest has had these experiences.

      Some in handling these situations we need to be able to say NO to ourselves and apply the brakes and make sacrifices.

      Otherwise we would do damage.

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    2. I ew you'd be as pastoral as possible. That's your style. :-)

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  11. What do you call a nun with a cell phone? Virgin mobile

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    1. These jokes are becoming tedious now, enough is enough. Let's return to the serious topic of the blog. I like a laugh as much as anyone but if I wanted bum jokes I'd just Google it.

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  12. I have fond memories of dear old Sr Assumpta who visited parishioners on her bycicle and took me under her wing in the good old days. There was nothing sinister about this lady. If she had a fault it was that she prayed too much. In many ways she was the one who nurtured me in the way of priestly vocation which went on to be affirmed by the laying on of hands by good auld Bishop Dominic Conway in Castlerea in 1987. On the other hand there was Sr Catherine whom my mam described as an auld bitch who taught her as a young girl. Nuns like priests and lay are open to the same virtues and vices as all of us. If there is a modern misconception it is to treat all nuns as if they were weird

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  13. Two nuns were passing the GPO in Dublin one evening and two men jumped out and raped them.

    When the ordeal was over - and the nuns were pulling themselves together - the older nun said to the younger nun:

    "How are we going to tell the Reverend Mother we were raped twice tonight"?

    The young nun said: "What do you mean TWICE"?

    The older nun said:

    "Well, Sister, we have to come home this way" :-)

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    1. I don't think rape is a subject that can be joked about. You present yourself as being concerned about sexual assaults by clergy on this blog. Making a joke about rape trivializes sexual assault. It's never funny, and diminishes the victims.

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    2. I think that joking about rape or many other issues with the WRONG OR DISRESPECTFUL INTENTION is very wrong indeed.

      But surely we can have humour about things that are not wrong intentioned or disrespectful?

      I always think this when I attend wakes. There is an overall sense of sadness at the wake.

      But we recall funny things that the deceased did and said without showing any disrespect.

      With the right intention we can laugh at anything - especially ourselves. No?

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    3. If you can explain how humour can ever be found in something that involves rape I'll agree with you. I personally don't think rape is ever funny or is ever a suitable topic for humour. I think it's something that only people who have never experienced it could ever find it funny. I think it diminishes the seriousness of the issue of sexual assault to give the idea that, in the right circumstances, rape could be funny. I think you're very wrong on this.

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    4. If I am a rape victim and have totally come to terms with my rape through counselling etc etc and feel I can know make a joke about my rape to people close to me - should I be FORBIDDEN to do that?

      Many of us in life had terrible things happen to us and can now joke about it in an appropriate way with appropriate people - ARE WE WRONG?

      Or is this ALWAYS contrary to some PC law?

      Just asking?

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    5. Rape jokes are completely unacceptable. Would you joke about paedophilia, torture or murder?

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    6. I would not joke about an individual's experience of rape, torture or murder.

      But who has not heard generalised joke about all those things?

      I tell a joke about an imaginary little 10 year old boy who was knocked down by a car crossing the road near the Royal Hospital in Belfast.

      An old lady came to his assistance and after making a pillow of her handbag, a blanket of her coat, and making sure the child was breathing and not bleeding said to him: "Would you like me to send for a priest"?

      The little boy replied: "Mrs, do you not think I have enough problems just now"?

      I see nothing wrong with that joke.

      I am telling it at the expense of my own profession.

      Do you think it wrong?

      Why?

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    7. Pat, I joke about my abuse (sexual abuse when I was a child) to my very close friends, after hard therapeutic (successful) work.

      Don't listen to these ones, all on here today, attacking you over these jokes. I think they are probably, truth be known, friends of degenerates who would defend their actions and refuse to apologise/change.

      Humour is powerful - laughing in the face of the enemy - refusing to give in to despair - its called HOPE!!!

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  14. Pat if this is the new format of the blog with serious then jokes then serious then you will lose a regular contributor and reader of your blog. I don't like it and find it off putting.

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    1. Ok. Why do you find it off putting?

      Today is the first day it has happened.

      Explain to us

      Pat

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  15. It's trying to digest the serious contributions and then hopefully reply. Then you get these silly jokes in between and then you try reading another serious contribution and then more jokes after that. I just find the topic gets lost amidst the competition to tell the funniest joke. I follow the blog religiously but have decided to have an evening off now. Sorry Pat, just being honest with you.

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    1. What do others think about jokes on the Blog.

      Mind you I have not published a few bad taste jokes that were submitted today.

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    2. An occasional timely joke related to the blog/comment subject is okay. I intentionally say "occasional".
      But regular jokes, or a series, or worse still an innapropriate one is quite unnecessary and unnacceptable to many.
      Personally, I find any jokes appearing (unintentionally or otherwise) to make light of a serious issue like rape is completely unnacceptable and certainly distasteful to many.
      MMM

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  17. No more jokes please. It detracts from main topic.
    Mary, Armagh

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  18. 15:37... Get a sense of humour. It's great a change away from the same old reteric.
    Change is good, move on.

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  19. If you intend being around the Merchant Hotel Christmas evening then it might be worth seeing who will be there. Cocktail bar, Dinner, cocktail bar again and then the suite afterwards.
    Ex Merchant Employee

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    1. I would love to spend Christmas Day this year in The Merchant - dining room, cocktail bar and suite.

      But I can't afford it :-(

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  20. Lots of very sick people out there?
    Time they abandoned their dubious sense of humour....,,,

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    1. Can you explain.

      I do not know whether you agree or disagree???

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    2. Agree or disagree with what, Bishop?
      And explain what???!!

      Delete
  21. Pat that joke about rape was the last straw .I have lost a lot of the respect I had for you.Can't understand what you were thinking of. As a woman it really shocked me.Rape is no joking matter .I know

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    1. I agree.

      And men are raped too.

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    2. I thoroughly agree with you. I found it nauseating. Most of the other jokes reminded me of the crude juvenile humour you have to endure when you teach First Formers - - Didn't expect to find it here.

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  22. Let's drop the jokes Pat and move on.

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    1. Ok. I did not realise people here were so serious :-(

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  23. Could never understand the British sense of humour - looked occasionally at their "comics" as they called them - full houses with people laughing at what i consider to be infantile rubbish!
    N. Irish fella (Kielty ??) I consider to be weird! Always switch him off!

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  24. It is no accident , that the jokes start today; the first time that women / nuns are mentioned..perfect illustration of the infantile & sick nature of Catholicism...it's a mystery to me, that women remain in the Catholic Church (well, why anyone remains, but especially women).. the ugliest, most sexist & sleazy jokes I have heard, I heard in the company of priests..no, the blog has not suddenly become lighthearted... it's just that the very mention of 'women', seems to have that effect.( see fr. Ted)..Every 'debate',even about child abuse, magically turns into an argument for the end of celibacy.... everything seems to revolve around the male nether regions..to whom it may concern... lads , grow a brain.. get over having a willie.



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  25. Anynomous you got it so wrong.

    bishopbuckley1@outlook.com

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  26. No he didn't get it wrong, you did Pat. Your post today has got to be one of the worst ever. The "joke"about rape has got to be the lowest of the low. I cannot believe that you would publish such a thing. Its rather like posting a joke using the "N" word to describe black people and then saying those object have no sense of humour. Pat there are some things that you just can't make jokes about. I really fear that you are losing your mind, as well as your way. The contributor at 19.12 is absolutely spot on. It is you Pat who are wrong.

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  27. Pat, I do not regard you as sexist or intentionally making ' light' of something as serious as rape.. however, I think that , on this occasion, you may have got it wrong... this blog, being a public forum, presumably, is read by many clergy predators ( others too, of course).i think it likely, that certain jokes, simply feed into their already distorted perceptions of reality /what's o.k./ what's not o.k. , (inc. stereotyping & misogny)
    context is important..if you can share a joke, re. being raped, with close friends, ..well, that's one thing ..it must be a rarity.. but there is a big difference, in throwing the subject out on this open blog....If this means I am prudish, so be it....
    My response has nothing to do with PC ...
    can the blog operate on a principal of 'anything goes?'..in real life, most of us are constantly censoring ourselves... (eg.right now, I am )... and for good reason.
    Your humor is appreciated , I'd guess, by most of us, who follow the blog... but today , I think that a line has been crossed, or is heading that way...
    Take care of yourself.. x

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  28. Taking a chill pill, people. Those jokes have been around for donkeys years. Human beings are able to laugh at the worst things that can happen - including victims. It's how we survive and gain perspective. Gallows humour is great. For fuxs sake lighten up!

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  29. I posted earlier..at 19.12 ,then at 22.51..
    The analogy used by anon. at 22.25, is, I think, a good one.
    Pat, re. those of us who commented negatively, on today's post.... do you think that we're a bunch of humourless prudes ?
    I hope that you will comment. All the best. N.

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  30. There has been some very timely grounded good advice above and I hope it will be heeded. It would be a most unwelcome development if this blog should lose its sense of direction and purpose and descend into a situation where people were trying to outdo each other in crudeness under the thin guise of humour.

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    Replies
    1. Everything said by those who comment constructively is heeded.

      We are always lerning as we go.

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  31. Women priests? But didn't our lord have 12 men as his disciples.

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  32. Indeed,he did (allegedly)... and maybe, they were all gay!..and himself too.. maybe ? Who knows ?! N.

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