Tuesday, 21 March 2017

DOES PAT LOVE THE CHURCH?

Yesterday JANE said:

"Bishop Pat does a good job but secretly he loves the church but finds it hard to cope when it spoils itself"




Do I love the Church?

The honest and simple answer is Yes - I do love the Church.

But the question is a bit more complex. What is the Church?

I think the Church is two things:

1. It is THE BODY OF CHRIST.

2. It is a HUMAN INSTITUTION.




THE BODY OF CHRIST:

I am a Christian. Always have and always will be. It would be more honest to say: "I am TRYING to be a Christian". By this I mean that I believe in Jesus Christ and Christianity but my sins, my weaknesses and my failings are very much a work in progress.

I believe in Jesus.
I believe that Jesus was / is God and man.
I believe in the teachings of Jesus.
I believe that the Bible is the Word of God written in the words of men and must be properly read, understood and interpreted.
I believe in the Seven Sacraments.
I believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
I believe in the Priesthood of All.
I believe in the ministerial priesthood of bishop, priest and deacon as long as these ministers behave as SERVANTS and not OVERLORDS.
I believe in clerical celibacy for those FEW who are given that gift but I believe in optional celibacy for all the rest.
I believe that woman as well as men should be bishops, priests and deacons.
I believe in the Religious Life for those FEW called to it.
I believe in prayer and worship.
I believe in the spirituality of many of the Catholic saints.
I believe that the College of Bishops have the right to teach - but only that teaching that has a basis in Scripture.
I believe that "Tradition" is important but that Faith, Hope and Love are more important.
I believe that the Holy Spirit works through all baptised Christians and not only through the clergy.
I believe that an innocent little child is often wiser than any pope or bishop.
I believe in the possibility of miracles.
I believe in the special role that Saint Mary played in God's plan.
I believe in Liberation Theology.
I believe in life long marriage as an ideal along with compassionate second chances for those who do not reach the ideal.

THE INSTITUTION:

I do not believe in the papacy as it has emerged over history and according to the ways of men.
I do not believe that the pope is infallible.
I do not believe in the retention of Vatican wealth while millions starve.
I do not believe in the Vatican Bank - the "Bank of the Holy Spirit".
I do not believe in an all male, patriarchal, money orientated, power abusing Roman Curia.
I do not believe in man made Canon Law.
I do not believe in compulsory celibacy.
I do not believe in the covering up of the abuse of children, men and women.
I do not believe in excommunication.
I do not believe that bones under St Peter's in Rome are the bones of Peter.
I do not believe in the Hierarchy's obsession with sexuality as sinful and dirty.
I do not believe that homosexuality is a "grave disorder".
I do not believe in the Hierarchy's control of marriage, divorce and annulment.
I do not believe that John Paul 11 was a saint.
I do not believe in The Vatican being a state.
I do not believe in the millions spent on keeping 160+ papal nuncios.
I do not believe in hiding cardinals and bishops in The Vatican if they are "wanted" in another country.
I do not believe that Saint Peter was a "pope".
I do not believe in the union of Church and State.
I do not believe in the Church having control of schools and education.
I do not believe it is a sin to use a condom especially to help stop the spread of Aids.
I do not believe in popes and bishops residing in palaces.
I do not believe in popes being global superstars.
I do not believe that the 5,000 + bishops are the successors of the 12 Apostles. 
I do not believe in Gaynooth, the homosexualisation of the priesthood and the covering up by bishops of promiscuous seminarians and deacons.

Image result for homosexualisation of church



I doubt if Peter ever was in Rome.
I doubt if Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Christ.
I doubt if Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven.
I doubt if many of the official saints were real saints at all and that official canonisation is about Church politics.
I doubt if Mother Teresa was a saint considering she treated her nuns, the sick and the poor.
I doubt the phenomena of statues and relics being paraded around the world.
I doubt the value of things like World Youth Day.
I doubt the value of seminary training for priests.


In short Pat loves the church that Jesus founded and intended...

But not the institutional Church that has been made by men.

The only hope for the RC Church is for it to return to the Church Jesus intended and which existed during the first and second centuries - the Apostolic Church - and not the Roman Empire MK11 which the Roman institution now is.


Image result for homosexualisation of catholic church

81 comments:

  1. Well I would have to agree with one thing... if Pat actually does love the Church, he has certainly succeeded in keeping it a secret!
    Honest - we'd never have guessed!

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  2. Pat,
    if you're a lover of the Church, I sure as hell wouldn't like to see her enemies!

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    1. I love the church but I get angry when it is used as a cover for criminal behaviour. I am so glad that my mother died before she knew if had been involved in the sexual abuse of children, slavery, human trafficking and !money laundering. In each of these cases the church, who are supposed to be infallible when it comes to morals, had become so blind to it's own sin, and it needed lay people to bring it to task. My heroes are Catherine Cordless, Marie Collins,and the Boston Globe. The church has developed such a sense of its own omnipotence that it thinks it is above the law. The recent report on child abuse in the catholic church in Australia was shocking. In the order of St John of God 40% where accused of sexual assault...... this is abnormal. Why didn't they recognise how bad it was. The laity trusted them and they abused that trust. There are very good caring priests in the church and I feel very sorry for them.

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    2. Catherine Cordless? She certainly rabbits on and on!She must have good batteries. :-)

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    3. 10:45, yes, Catherine speaks fluently, informatively, professionally and persuasively. You must look up to her from way down there.

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  3. I've totally lost respect and an infinity with this blog. Scraping the barrel and desperation for headlines spring to mind.

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    1. I presume you mean affinity!

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  4. 63 "I"s in this posting!

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  5. How could anyone love 'the Church'? How could anyone love patriarchy, violence, corruption, decadence, vainglory, wealth, worldliness, vanity, etc? All these (and much else besides) are what the Church has allowed herself to become.

    Yes, there is Christ, too. But in individuals, not at an institutional level.

    Officially, the Church appeals to the world, with its nuncios like Charles Brown. But Jesus made clear that he came to sow the seeds of division, not unity.

    If the Church is not a sign of contradiction to the world, then it is failing Christ, failing to proclaim him and his Gospel. It may as well not exist.

    The only way forward for the Church is back...to its roots. Christ himself.

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    1. Well look at it like this. If a pompous arrogant git like you can be loved by another person (which I presume is the case) it shows how love can sometimes be blind to faults and failings.

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    2. Ah, but love never CONDONES 'faults and failings'. Not if it is genuine. You 'get' the nuance here?

      'The Church' not only condoned these in itself: it perfected them over centuries of deliberate malpractice. Which is why its so-called 'moral authority' is in tatters.

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  6. You're the ecclesial equivalent of a wife beater.

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  7. Ah Pat, you are some craic. I have never seen someone augment the nicene or apostles creed in my life. Basically Pat you pick and choose from Catholicism what you like or suits your agenda. Fair enough. Just try not to package it as Catholicism.

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    1. Most catholics I know pick and choose. If you read the part in the catechism on sexuality, it is completely bonkers. However the section on prayer is very good.

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    2. Ah Jane, bless you. So is killing babies bad or not?

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    3. Do you mean by neglect at Tuam? Abortion is not good.

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    4. Ok so we are making progress so. The teaching of the Church aint totally mental. Btw abuse/burying of babies in tanks is not Church teaching. Try and separate the sinners from the message

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    5. 07:50, 'the Church' picks and chooses as well. For example, Jesus' teaching that we must love our enemies was ditched centuries ago by 'the Church' when it decided to morally 'ok' the death penalty. Why, Popes even employed their own executioners. How's that for picking and choosing!

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    6. The troll is back. Ding ding ding.

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    7. 12:22, not Church teaching? You need to rethink. What happened there was a product of Church teaching...that unbaptised children cannot attain Heaven.

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    8. Ding ding ding

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    9. What? You'd rather not hear the truth, 13:13? You must be part of that institutional excuse for what Christ founded 2000 years ago.

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    10. 12:54, 'the troll' was never away.

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    11. Ding ding ding

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    12. Pat is not responding to any concerns, Magna Carta is responding instead for him. Carta is now the mouthpiece of this blog. Just look at how many posts he has made yesterday and today. He has ruined this blog, well done Magna Carta.

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    13. And here's yet another post from me! 14:31, how have I 'ruined this blog'? I'm not stopping anyone else from posting, so what, exactly, is behind your lament. Is it emotion or reason? Speak, and I'll listen. Promise.

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    14. Ding ding ding

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  8. A daft thought on a serious topic. Does the church and the old USSR have this much in common in that that they can't handle criticism and dialogue

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    1. Good lad sean! At least you got the daft part right. Why dont you right a piece on the damage you have caused to families entrusted to your care whilst ministering to them?

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    2. Absolutely--or even to "write a piece" "! Wouldn't that be right?

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    3. "--right a piece"? Oh dear - where is that wonderful word editor when you need him - -?

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    4. Dang boy! We gotta clean up some grammar here smart like!

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    5. Ha ha! Love you (from the word editor)

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  9. 9.40 Perhaps I will when you come out from behind Anonymous Come to think of it in a sense this already has been done which prompted you to post your comment

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    1. Why don't you present the real story?

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    2. 10.26 It's already been done to death. Any current embellishment is the imagination/supposition of others. Everyone involved has moved on from those regrettable times thankfully

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  10. Dear Pat, Could I suggest that you might add "I believe in the tooth fairy" to your newly proclaimed credo!

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    1. Never mind the tooth fairy, what about the flying spaghetti monster. Anyone who wants proof that theism is for the loons just has to read this blog. Its the best advocacy for atheism I've seen recently. Well done Pat. Not what you may have intended it to be. I guess it a case of unintended consequences. That guy Page seems to be missing a good few pages from the book.

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    2. You sir are a funny person! If i could high five you i would!

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  11. I see the trolls bullying Magna Carta yesterday have (characteristically) moved on to other people today

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    1. No i think you are confused. I merely troll the troll, it is good fun. MC is a pretentious twat attacking and belittling people. Ergo i troll the little troll.

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    2. Spoke too soon, you've gone back to bullyinh Magna Carta again.
      I don't know you or Magna Carta but definitely see yesterday's comments about him as internet bullying.

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    3. Tell me wise defender or free speech, does mc comments constitute bullying? Or do you hold court on all issues pertaining to internet bullying?

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    4. I wonder if some are trying to discredit the blog by having a go at contributors to see what happens next. There does seem to be a pattern emerging. Perhaps Pat you should draw up some guidelines such as a person may contest what someone posts but not have a go at them as a person. Why do such a large proportion prefer Anonymous

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  12. Ha ha! The craic's mighty today!( Must try and not fall asleep on the sofa this time.)

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  13. Bishop Pat, 7 comments out of 36 from Magna Carta [sic], nearly a quarter. Why, oh why do you let this non entity dominate your blog so? It was bad enough when Sean Page (whoever the hell he is) was filling the Comments with his drivel, now we have a barely educated loud mouth shouting his mouth off on whatever takes his fancy. I ask you.

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    1. 14:13, why do you take 'this non entity (sic)' and 'barely educated loud mouth (sic)' so seriously? It's a puzzle to me. Do I owe you money from a previous life? The fact that you do take me seriously (almost obsessively, I'd say) suggests that you consider me much more than a 'non entity (sic)' and 'a barely educated loud mouth (sic). You do realise this, don't you? No, you don't, do you? (Sigh)

      By the by, aren't you the cry-baby who supposedly said 'goodbye' to this blog yesterday? Cheerio, then.

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    2. 14.13 I like to hear what Magna Carts has to say.

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  14. 14.26 looks like the comment from whoever the hell he is is spot on. Whoever the hell he is has a ring to it Ta for the ✋ le.

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    1. Ah here sean, look its like this, you renaged on the promises you made at Ordination etc, and now you are living it large with another crew. You have made your bed, or rather several of them, so ly in it and leave the affairs of the Church to active members.

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  15. I don't know why Pat, a Protestant Bishop, is so obsessed by the Roman Catholic Church? Time to move on surely? Except insofar as it affects wider society, the goings-on and beliefs of Papists are not really his business.

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    1. Pat is a catholic bishop but not an RC bishop.

      The Christian Church needs the best if the Catholic and Protestant traditions.

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    2. Well you are catholic in the sense that the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans etc, but you are not Catholic as that word is commonly understood in everyday usage. I think most objective commentators would consider your views to be liberal mainline Protestant. Which is fine. So the point remains, why an obsessive interest in a confession/Church/whatever you want to call it, when you are not a member of it, do not share their beliefs, or want anything to do with it? I fail to see that the internal workings of the RC Church is really any of your business?

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  16. 16 22 Not sure about the living large bit. Many beds is an unjust comment. Is this also true of Pat? Free speech is a human right when used with respect

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  17. Pat the proddies. Hi sure that's got a great ring to it too so it has.Hi but many proddies are Catholic if the Creed is still true if it is

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    1. Again sean with the little side digs and nasty turns of phrase. No wonder you attract so much negative attention. You messed with peoples lives, you failed to live according to the promises that you made at ordination, that is fine, kind of, but stop having a go at the Catholics who remain faithful to their baptismal promises.

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    2. Again 17.54 Please show me the before? How many times have you repeated the word you indicating me. There is a subliminal message here somewhere. Like many ballance contributors I am getting wearisome of this kind of post. Then again maybe that's the object of the exercise

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    3. Your an apostate.

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    4. 2121 Doc told me take Paracetamol

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    5. Should that not be "You're an apostate"?

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    6. Maybe the doctor thought you said prostate?

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  18. Why is it that only the anonymous comments are abusive?

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    1. Jane why do you feign righteous indignation? Magna attacks commentators on a regular basis. Do you challenge him? No you do not. You enable this vitriol and absolute vile.

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    2. Because abusive bullies like to hide behind anonymity.
      I have a question for Magna Carta. Are the people who are so rude about you, people you know, either in real life or elsewhere online? Do they have some (to them) valid reason for hating you so much?

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    3. Says annon at 17:52. Twat

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    4. 17:52, I honestly don't know these people.

      As for their hatred and abusiveness of me, it's a variation of what I call the 'Cain-Abel Syndrome': attacking a person for having been shown up. In Cain's case, it was his obvious vice in light of Abel's evident goodness that drove him to kill his brother; in their case, it's lack of intelligence and insight that I, unintentionally, show up. And so they fear me. Whatever makes people fear must be got rid of.

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    5. @18.19
      Of course I'm anonymous! I won't risk having trolls gang up on me on here. And I certainly wouldn't risk using my blogger ID and risk having bullies troll me on my own blog. I'm anonymous to protect myself from people who feel free to go around calling people twats on the internet. Lovely manners you've got.
      17.52

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    6. Thank you for replying Magna Carta.

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  19. Pat, looking at the picture of the above blog, why do dress in the garb of a Roman Cleric? You have a roman collar and a lovely big bit off bling bling there to boot that would give the irish bishops a run for their money.

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    1. The cross in the picture cost £40 on ebay.

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  20. Jane you got it in one. Spineless so and sos However I do accept that some folk have genuine reason to stay anonymous.

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  21. MourneManMichael21 March 2017 at 18:06

    Pat, a recently devoloped trend is for too many comments on your blog to consist of negative, hostile, and verging on an abusive focus on contributors. There are some who seem to take satisfaction in running down others rather than making a comment on the blog subject matter. I have to say I don't like it. I'm content to see opinions and views criticised, including my own. It's difficult to get the proper balance in allowing free speech, but wonder what can be done to limit this unwelcome barrage of hostility.
    MMM

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    1. Well MMM, what have you done to limit magnas attacks on people?

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    2. MourneManMichael22 March 2017 at 08:37

      I hold my peace when encouraged into negativity.
      The reason a dog makes friends easily is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
      MMM

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  22. MMM Same as Jane at 17.56 you are on the ball

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  23. This blog has become unbearable and is a laughing stock. It's just people having a swipe at one another. What's your take on the death of Martin McGuinness Bishop Pat? I know you condemned him in the past!

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    1. I was just going to ask that! Pat, what are your thoughts and feelings regarding McGuinness' passing?

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  24. When I read Magna's comments, I think to myself, "that poor girl has been very hurt. That's why she lashes out at people like a scalded shrew". For all we know, Magna too was left holding a baby by a bishop. So maybe just say a wee prayer for her and light a candle for her intentions.

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    1. Aw shucks! Isn't that powerful nice - -

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  25. I believe in the simplicity of Jesus and the church he wanted. He didn't say you need to be a cannon lawyer, he didn't say that you need to have any special qualifications or qualities. All my life I believe I have TRIED to follow in his ways and yet found myself in conflict with the various churches I've come into contact with.
    So how do I survive well it simple really follow my heart and what I believe Jesus wanted.

    But for some I am talking airy fairy shite, but you know I am happy unlike most. The temple needs swept out and sanitised big time and I believe it's happening with the lack of vocations

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    1. Indeed if one were a cannon lawyer one could possibly be fired!

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