Friday, 3 March 2017

TUAM BABIES UPDATE

Tuam babies: 'Significant quantities' of human remains discovered

FROM BBC N. IRELAND





TuamImage copyrightRTÉ
Image captionThe burial site at Tuam mother-and-baby home in County Galway

"Significant quantities" of human remains have been discovered at the site of a former mother and baby home in County Galway.
In October 2016 the Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation began test excavations at the site in Tuam.
The commission was established following allegations about the deaths of 800 babies in Tuam and the manner in which they were buried.
It said it was "shocked" by the discovery.
The Tuam home was one of 10 institutions in which about 35,000 unmarried pregnant women are thought to have been sent.
In a statement on Friday, the Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation said the remains were found in "at least 17 of the 20 underground chambers which were examined earlier this year".
It added: "These remains involved a number of individuals with age-at-death ranges from approximately 35 foetal weeks to two-three years."
The home operated from 1925 to 1961 and a number of the samples are likely to date from the 1950s, the commission said.
The commission said it is continuing its investigation into who was responsible for the disposal of human remains in this way and has asked that the relevant state authorities take responsibility for the appropriate treatment of the remains.
The coroner has been informed

The nuns who ran the home said last night:

The Bon Secours sisters are fully committed to the work of the Commission regarding the mother and baby home in Tuam. On the closing of the Home in 1961 all the records for the Home were returned to Galway County Council who are the owners and occupiers of the lands of the Home. We can therefore make no comment on today’s announcement, other than to confirm our continued cooperation with and support for the work of the Commission in seeking the truth about the home.
PAT SAYS:

There have been many horrors in the distant and recent history of the Catholic Church all around the world and here in Ireland.

But surely the BURIAL OF 700 - 800 BABIES in a SEPTIC TANK by NUNS is a new low?




Jesus said that anyone who hurt "ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES" should have a stone tied around their neck and be thrown into the sea.

What would Jesus say should be done with nuns - virgins consecrated to Jesus Christ  - disposing of the bodies of little babies in a tank meant for sewerage !

And these nuns and their Church tell us that our bodies are "TEMPLES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT".

So it is okay for Temples of the Holy Spirit to be cast into human faeces




And even today there will be Catholic leaders trying to waffle their way out of what happened by talking about things like judging what happened according to the cultures of the time.

SORRY ! DON'T GIVE US THAT TRIPE !

When, in the history of the world - not to mention the Church - was it acceptable to bury little babies in a sewerage tank?

And if this was done by ISIS or some other barbaric organisation we would be rightly horrified.

But this was done by so called Christians !

This was done by so called followers of Jesus Christ who held children up as primary examples of those belonging to the Kingdom of God !

This was done by Roman Catholic women who devoted themselves to the service of Christ through the service of others - especially the most vulnerable. And who could be more vulnerable than a new born baby?




You see the Tuam Baby Scandal is just ONE of the myriad of scandals engulfing the Roman Catholic Empire.

But ANY ORGANISATION that has so little respect for the bodies of its little babies cannot be described as a "good" or "healthy" organisation in any sense.

What happened to the TUAM BABIES and in other Catholic convents was in line with the kind of thing that happened in the NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS during the Second World War.

We all regard the Nazi Regime as evil.

What stops us thinking that the Roman Catholic Regime is not also evil ???

78 comments:

  1. It's beyond disgusting. The covering up continues and presents itself in other ways today. It's the bishops' mentality. Pat, this story is an abomination. Please offer up mass for this babies. The insult to injury was that no bishop was on the news apologizing. Catholic nuns. Catholic priests put many's a mother into that home. The Catholic bishop gave it his imprimatur. As said in comments in previous post, the Pope should be made to visit the Tuam Septic Tank on his visit to Ireland. XXXK Knock

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    Replies
    1. Maybe we should take bus loads of people to Tuam
      When Frankie here and Pat could say a mass to ask God to forgive us for our trespasses
      all those years ago and still today hiding our sinfulness
      in allowing grinder fellas to be ordained.
      We need to pray together to stop the rot and acknowledge that some people are born gay and be respected....but promiscuity
      is not welcome
      in ireland
      FRANKIE NEEDS TO BETOLD HOW OURCOUNTRY HAS SUNK ALMOST BEYOND REPAIR

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  2. In putting these babies in septic tanks what these nuns did was place baby Jesus there, along with Jesus's preaching. Not one word of his ministry was heard by these nuns. There is no longer any excuses.

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    Replies
    1. Irish times 4/3/17 page 5
      "One structure appears to be a large sewage containment system or septic tank which had been decommissioned and filled with rubble and debris and then covered with topsoil... "The commission hadn't determined the structure was used as a sewage tank. Presumably the poor unfortunates were buried in the soil and not in excrement as you claim without any evidence. Poor people were treated as third class here in Ireland by a largely middle class clergy and professional class of laity. We all believe in equality but some (those with money) are still more equal than others.

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    2. @12.30
      Let us give them the benefit of the doubt that these babies were buried in soil, as you suggest. Would you like your loved ones buried in what appears to be a filled in septic tack?

      Whatever about treating the poor as third class - did they need to be removed from their homes, vilified, banished from society and turned into quasi-slaves to fill the coffers of the church? No they did not. They could have been treated as third class and left at home with their loved ones. - My point being that this is far worse than treating someone as third class, as you suggest, this is about robbing women of their humanity, dignity, independence, freedom, hope, future, child, love, compassion, self-determination... need I go on?

      You play-down what happened without evidence. I on the other hand have sat with these women. I have listened to their stories. I have shared their tears. I have witnessed that 50 years after such events these ladies lives quite often remain destroyed today. They were not a third class, they were untouchables, banished out of sight.

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  3. If you need something buried you get a nun to bury it. Isn't that right Sr. Colette Stevenson? Isn't that right Sr. Breege O'Neill?

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    Replies
    1. Looks like Maynooth's 'independent' contact people are nearing the blog spotlight at last.

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    2. God help any seminarian who contacts these people. The only thing that is 'independent' about them is their email address.

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    3. Agreed. Only God knows how many of Maynooth's secrets these two company girls have buried. They should be ashamed of themselves.

      CR.

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  4. Two or three years ago, I read about another home run by the Bethany Christian Church in which an unusually high number of children died over the years up until the 1960s.

    One member of staff still alive remembered, ‘being confronted by a tsunami of poverty’ at the time.

    I am not trying to justify Tuam, or anything, but I thought the former staff member's comment was a good example of how life was in Ireland at the time.

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    1. No amount of poverty can justify placing babies in septic tanks. With the exception of famine times a respectful burial and a kind word to a grieving mother has always been within the financial capacity of the Irish Church and Irish society.

      For this there is no excuse.

      Let us just hope and pray that the babies were dead before being placed in the septic tanks.

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    2. We know from other places (Tralee) that Catholic doctors created false death certs to cover up abuse and violence!

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    3. Some of these laundries still operate. Not all women were released. Its sad.

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    4. Bishop Pat at 12:15, I didn't know this. Good God!

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    5. A Christian Brother in Tralee killed a 15 year old boy one night through violence and the local Catholic doctor put "dementia" on the death cert !!!

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    6. Don't they say Ireland made the Christian Brothers and the Christian Brothers made Ireland. The priest and the doctor were probably old school chums.

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    7. @14.02
      Spotted around the country you will find convents with old ladies. In some instances they occupants will look like nuns who no longer wear the habit.

      In reality they are not nuns, they are the ladies who lost their babies to the convents. They are childless single mothers.

      Those who call the shots in their homes are the nuns, who incidentally may also not be wearing habits. But at this old age, after 50, 60 years where else can these ladies go? They remain not because they want to be there but because they have no where to go.

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    8. 17:38, it breaks my heart...but not before filling it with anger!

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    9. 17:38, thank you. It is truly heart-breaking. (Oh, Jesus, make us like TRULY unto you!)

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  5. It's amazing that a church that is so obsessed about the wonderful penis and the loss of seed don't/didn't give a shit*e about the fruit of the loins. Time to put things in perspective

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  6. Be careful not to say that nuns who dump unbaptised children in septic tanks are so called-Christians. If Christianity is man-made the label is man-made and they claim it so they can have it. They can be called Christian. There is no way to judge a religion good except by the behaviour of its members. This shit where we are told that a bad Hindu is not a Hindu or an ISIS terrorist is not a Muslim and a cruel Christian is not a Christian is nonsense and an insult both to the bad people and their victims and to those who want to accurately diagnose the problem. And Catholicism tries to make Christians not out of good works but out of magical rites such as baptism. An absolute disgrace.

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  7. A thorough and careful reading of the Report will show that there is no evidence that the corpses of adults and children were put into sewage, let alone septic tanks. This is alarmist nonsense and is unfactual. Rather the corpses were placed in an underground facility - rather like a crypt - and then covered with earth. It was a practical response to the problem of how to despose of the dead. Now to my mind this was shameful and degrading, but I was not there and not living 50 - 100 years ago when such practices among the poor where prevalent (I am referring to the Paupers graves that contain thousands of unidentified corpses of men, women and children in every cemetery in the land. Please a little more fact and less fiction. The sensationalist approach does nothing to help heal the wounds, let alone help discover the truth.

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    1. THE IRISH TIMES - TODAY - FRONT PAGE

      "The commission, chaired by Judge Yvonne Murphy, said it was shocked at the discovery.
      The remains were contained in at least 17 of 20 underground chambers in what appeared to be a SEWAGE RELATED STRUCTURE"

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    2. TODAYS IRISH TIMES

      “And it’s where they were found, in structures built for sewerage,” one resident who did not want to be named said. “If you were burying your dog, you’d find a nice tree in your garden.”

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    3. The sensationalist, hysterical, histrionic rant is Pat Buckley's forté when it comes to the Church.
      That's why its so easy for them to write him off as a fruitcake when he calls for reform and identifies scandals like Grindr and Gaynooth.

      Very sad, Pat because, if you didn't allow your own agenda (in some ways questionable and in other ways understandable), you might have been effective.

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    4. I have only ONE AGENDA.

      To expose the rottenness, corruption and evil that exists and permeates the Roman Catholic Institution at every level.

      I do not need to make anything up or do much research.

      The Institution is giving us proof day after day - abuse of children, rape of nuns, Maynooth Grindr, babies in septic tanks etc....................

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    5. @ anonymous 12:41 - Some sense at last. This stinks of hypocrisy by people who will see the unborn condemned for having the cheek to exist.

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  8. Woman recalls falling into grave

    The Irish Times 4 Mar 2017 ELAINE EDWARDS

    A woman who visited the site of the Tuam mother and baby home four decades ago has recalled seeing what appeared like mineral bottles rolled up in cloth on top of each other when the ground collapsed under her.
    “I was a few feet away from something I couldn’t explain. Now I would describe it as a Cidona bottle or a Coke bottle rolled up in a cloth and they were all piled on top of each other like sausages,” said Mary Moriarty.
    Speaking on RTÉ’s Liveline programme, she said she was later told by a woman who had worked on the grounds that they were the “little baby graves”.
    She had gone to the site in the summer of 1975 after a child on the street “had a skull on a stick, shaking it”. She said there was “rubble and stuff” where the home was being demolished and the existing graveyard was covered in bushes. The ground collapsed beneath her and she “landed down in something”.

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  9. To the poster who said
    That was Ireland back ten
    I was a child of the 40s, no way we're my parents any different to now
    BUT I did get slapped with the wooden pointer and my hair pulled by nuns at school almost every day
    Frustrated bitches

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    Replies
    1. Ah the nuns were cruel in fairness. Terrified going into school everyday. God forgive me but I remember we'd often be praying for a nun who might be sick and I'd be praying for her to die so we'd get the day off school but the bitch would die of a Thursday and get buried on a Saturday.

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    2. And she'd not be buried in a septic tank!

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    3. The full works no doubt. The best coffin. Layed out in the convent chapel. 101 concelebrants and a bishop and a big meal after the buriel

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  10. TODAY'S IRISH INDEPENDENT

    Test trenches were dug revealing two large structures in November 2016. One appears to be a large sewage containment system or septic tank filled with rubble and debris. The second is a long structure divided into 20 chambers.
    The commission has not yet determined what the purpose of this structure was but it appears related to the treatment/containment of sewage and/or waste water.

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  11. Pat is not raving. I heard the news on RTE 1 on LW in the car yesterday

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  12. Catherin Zappone and many on here are outraged at the disposal of the bodies of dead babies while happily supporting the killing of inconvenient babies prior to birth and the flushing away of their little bodies. Do get your priorities right, for God's sake.

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  13. Anonymous

    It's not just the burying of them in this disgusting way that we should concentrate on, however appalling it was. It is how these poor little babies were treated when they were alive. These poor defenceless babies were devoid of love, care, attention, proper food, and medical care. These deaths were due to neglect and cruelty, carried out as hatred towards these poor little souls because they were born outside a catholic marriage, and in the eyes of their so called carers, did not deserve any better. A crime, a crime of mass murder.
    It wasn't just the nuns who carried this out, the catholic priests, the Bishops, all would have known what was going on and were implicit. Let the bishops sit in their robes and palaces. The huge numbers of excess baggage in the name of Catholic clergy, sitting in Rome surrounded in luxury, warmth, and good food, including those who scuppered Marie Collins in her endeavours for child protection. This shows how utterly rotten the Catholic Church has become.

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  14. 15 .17
    Shout away we know you can do it
    Why don't you stand in front of some poor soul going into a clinic and mind her business for her

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  15. @15:17 - agreed.
    Catherine Zappone cannot genuinely support justice for these babies and also support abortion. Such is a fundamental moral contradiction.

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    Replies
    1. Are you Bernie Smyth? If not you certainly sound like her.

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    2. I don't think the poster is Ms Smyth--it's just that he/she has the same clear thinking principles of fairness and humanity towards the most vulnerable children.

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    3. You don't think means you don't know so stop posting silly remarks.

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    4. If you had a 13 year old daughter, who was molested, would you let her have the morning after pill? I would. Some would say that is abortion. The world is not black and white.

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    5. @17:26, No I am not Bernie Smyth.
      @19:25, are you the blog police?

      @ Jane, that pill would be pointless after molestation. But I see the possible grey area you wish to raise. The trouble is that the abortion debate in Ireland focuses on making abortion legal (ie, changing of the current laws). You refer to a contraceptive that is already legal in Ireland. So to be fair your point is somewhat off topic.

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    6. The morning after pill is given after sex.

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    7. @Jane,
      Reading your two points am I right in understanding that you are putting forward the point that the morning after pill is abortion?

      The morning after pill works in one of three ways;

      1. It temporarily stops the release of an egg from the ovary
      2. It prevents fertilization of an egg
      3. It prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.

      You are correct in saying that it is given after sex but it is also given before fertilisation. This is why it is classified as a contraceptive.

      @ Magna Carta - I whole heartedly agree. Abortion is TERRIBLE.

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    8. The morning-after pill can be administered up to 72hrs after intercourse, by which time fertilization may have occurred. It is therefore an abortifacient. Abortion is a terrible sin and there is absolutely no reason for it regardless of circumstances. Just because it may be legal in certain countries doesn't mean it's right. What amazes me is the number of so-called educated people who support it. They are so wrong

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  16. I wonder was there a civil engineer involved in explaining how 19th century sewage systems worked. It seems that the learnerd judge is a bit out of her depth and a bit confused as to where the bodies were buried the long structure divided into 20 chambers has absolutely nothing to do with any know example of 19th century treatment/containment of sewage, and or waste water. sewage after being collected in a cesspit (not a septic tank) then goes through a seepage pit. It is more likely that the 20 chambers mentioned by the judge are in fact the remains of an early 19th century root cellar.
    Root cellars are a very old-fashioned way of preserving food, and it can be one of the simplest if you have the right location for it. All a root cellar is is a cold, dark location that also has the right level of humidity to allow some types of fruit and vegetables to last months without any processing at all.

    There are also limits one what kind of food will store this way. Most root vegetables (potatoes, turnips, beets) and apples are well-known for great root cellar storage. Which would have been the main source of food available in a workhouse situation. Remembering that the original structure is a 19th century workhouse.

    References to the bodies being buried in a septic tank are inaccurate as the tank( which is actually a cesspit ) ceased to be used in the 1920-'s when the workhouse fluid waste was joined to the mains sewer. The cesspit would have been finally emptied due the value of the fecal sludge. indeed the cesspit would have been emptied many times during the century it was used. the pit would in the 1920's have been backfilled. I would suspect that due to the cramped space surrounding the workhouse, the existing burial places being full they reused the old root cellars and the disused cesspit for modern burials. Interesting to note the report does not mention fecal sludge at all. Therefore the bodies were not buried in fecal sludge. Fecal sludge lasts for millennia and is a great primary source for archaeologists.
    The bodies in the catacombs were buried in disused sewers. Charles Stewart Parnell is still buried in a plague pit. I don't see any screaming for their reburial. In Glasnevin Cemetery today children are still buried in communal pits containing up to maybe 30 babies bodies placed there by their parents and this in 2017. Buried in communal pits in 2017 to save on the money of opening a new grave. Probably the same reason the nuns in Tuam buried the dead children in the land available to them. Where were the poor of Tuam buried in the 18th 19th and early 20 century. Now let the haters have a good rant. History and Archaeology are a wonderful mirror for today.

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    Replies
    1. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

      They did not bury their own nuns in your "root cellar"!

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    2. If they were caught for space than deceased nuns would have been buried in the root cellar too. However they were not buried in a root cellar and so the convent was not stuck for space.

      Incidentally, you also need to face the reality that it is inconceivable that the Catholic Church in Ireland may be or may have been short on acreage.

      Aside from that, thank you for your insightful post on root cellars and cesspits. I like the sharing of knowledge.

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  17. No need to since none died. There is no communal grave for the nuns in the local cemetery either. if there was the would have been given photographs of it with the elaborate headstones. Cop on Pat. You sound demented now, and can't even wait before casting judgement some fucking Christian leader you are. I don't subscribe to your false man made God, but I can spot gobshite when I see it, and you have it by the spadeful

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    1. @ 17.22
      between 1920 and 1960 no nun died at this convent????????? Get a grip on reality please.

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    2. you are a pure gobshite

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    3. @19:45
      Indeed if you cannot make an intelligent reply throw a personal insult instead.

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  18. So the Catholic Church is equivalent to the NAZI'S? Get a grip, I know that you want to prove that everyone in the hierarchy has been evil but it just isn't true and it is an affront to those many German and Polish priests and nuns who perished in German camps. The unborn don't get funerals, they get flushed - does that worry you? Not at all.

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    1. 17:28, you are presumptuous. Why not ASK first?

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    2. I have done commital ceremonies for the unborn, the still born and the newly born.

      We Christians believe they have immortal souls.

      I wonder if the Tuam nuns had either souls or consciences.

      The children of the poor were not worth what the children of the rich were.

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    3. I wonder if the nuns had souls?????? They did, I can assure you. You my friend are 'losing it' in your hatred for the Church.

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  19. The post at 16:24 is one of the best I have seen on this subject and explains the facts of the situation very well indeed. The fact that the nuns were not buried in that place is neither here nor there; that is a totally non sequitur. The nuns used whatever land was available for this sad task. Another point I would make would be that just because the Irish Times, Independent and RTE say something doesn't mean it is incontrovertibly true. They place their own bias and slant on how the "facts" are reported. There is so much FAKE NEWS around at the moment, and the Church is an easy target. The bishops need to get pro active and nail these lies once and for all.

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    1. You are an excuser and therefore an enabler!

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    2. Well said anon at 16:24, the Church is a target and people are prepared to believe anything about them and put the worst construction on anything.

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  20. Pat, i honestly thought you were going to shed light on the homosexual sub culture that is destroying the Church with your blog. However, the more i read, the more ot becomes apparent to me that you are no different to the populist priests who plague the Church, the same crew who would be there to welcome JPII when he arrived, the same crew who will be there to welcome Pope Francis. Ranting, raving, portraying the Catholic Church as an instrument of satan, posting sick and disgusting satanic imagery on your blog merely demonstrates a truly worrying indication about you. You truly hate the Lord.i feel sorry for you that you have descended to such malignancy and malice. Reconcile yourself with the Lord soon, He is on the way back.

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    Replies
    1. I am reconciled with the Lord.

      I'm sure the Lord is more angry with the Roman Charade than I am.

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  21. Black and Tans
    Magdalene Laundries
    Mother and Baby Homes
    Direct provision
    Aras Attracta
    Grace
    Carrickmines

    What do all these things have in common? The answer is IRISHNESS. Ye are a despicable people through and through. Spineless and evil. Many, many people knew about ALL that was going on in all these situations, but did nothing. Give up now, and ask the UK or Poland (or whoever will take you on) to run the country.

    Blaming Catholicism is just a diversion to stop you having to face up to what inadequate excuses for human-beings you are.

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    Replies
    1. When De Valera asked the pope to make his school classmate and life long friend John Charles McQuaid the Archbishop of Dublin he was planning on making Ireland Catholic. The proof is in the list you wrote, that is what catholic Ireland created.

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    2. Primary schools - religious
      mother and baby homes - religious
      Tuam babies scandal - religious
      The other things you talk about are Irish. Religious institutions are hypocritical. More is expected of Religious Institutions who pretend to be christlike... christ like my arse. It's people like you who would suggest that kids who were abused liked the sweets they were given and should have said no to the sweets if they didn't want to touch 'father' in that way.

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    3. De Valera and McQuaid school classmates? Really? One born in 1882 and the other in 1895. Either one was a prodigy or the other a dunce.

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    4. @20:56,
      Slight error there but sentiment is accepted. They met not as classmates but when McQuaid became President of DeV's Alma Mater. The influence [in both direvtions] is not to be underestimated.

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  22. The Irish resisted their British colonisers.

    But they opened their legs wide for their Roman religious colonisers.

    800 ++×++ dead babies in septic tanks are the fruits of Irish Roman Catholicism.

    Ian Paisley was right about them!

    But he did not know it all.


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    1. Ian Paisely was ABSOLUTELY correct: Roman Catholomicism, at an institution level, is a WHORE (Christ-betrayer)

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  23. Roman Catholicism has destroyed the country. It would have answered the Papal Nuncio better to be down at the Septic Tank in Tuam begging forgiveness from the Irish people on Six One News. Instead he attended Peter Matthews funeral and officiated. The hypocrites are alive and well in dioceses throughout the country. The religious hypocrites from years ago brought pregnant women to these homes (indeed a high percentage of them were fathers of the children, at that point most of the clergy were straight), the nuns buried these kids who died of mal-nourishment in most cases. Nowadays gay priests - old and young - are in the main promiscuous. Thy appear on Grindr and Gaydar.

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  24. @21:12 The gay promiscuous priests and religious of nowaday are no different to the Bon Secours hypocritical nuns of the 50s, 60s and 70s. They is NO difference. They are both hypocrites

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  25. The gall of the church to give out about abortion. In Tuam it appears it was either have an abortion or carry your child, mal nourish it and pop it in a sewer in a religious house. Or if it happened to survive sell it to America.

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  26. @Pat You know that priest who is Deacon Puck's parish priest? What has he to say about Tuam? He had a lot to say about Tommy Tiernan on the Late Late Show a few weeks back. Would it be considered blasphemous or just outrageous to (a) dump baptised babies in a sewage system, or, (b) ordain someone who was on an app for promiscuous sex?

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  27. An Exclusive on the front page of tomorrows Sunday Mail by Catherine Corless:
    “Now that we know the truth of what happened in the Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in Tuam, we must not allow the Order to avoid taking responsibility, even at this late stage, for what was done in their name and by their members.
    As news of the Mother and Baby Home Commission of Investigation findings spread on Friday, the Order put out a very insensitive statement. That statement was exactly the same as one they gave to me in 2013 when I was trying to find out more information about the site.”

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  28. When I heard of this startling revelation a few days ago, I became immediately saddened for all of those involved… Clearly, it is written that children are a gift from our Heavenly Father. It is inhumane to discern that a child of God is not worthy of life but, desensitization is taught by the corruptible flesh through man-made doctrines.
    Man’s idiotology still inevitably perceives that flesh made items, doctrines and institutions are incorruptible but, it is written, anything made by the flesh is corruptible. It is ever so prevalent within our daily lives and yet, we hastily succumb and adhere to these fleshly ideologies.
    If man is made from the dust of the ground and Satan is the prince of the earth, you were corruptibly owned by Satan until our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) died on the cross as payment for your body and soul.
    It’s a deplorable state of affairs when we associate our own ideology with Satan and his counterparts’ traits… It is detrimental to distinguish the differences. Narcissism, pride, jealousy, hatred, greed and most importantly, condemnation are to name a major few… It is written the accuser of the brethren is the devil and the devil has power over death, he is the death angel.
    When we utilize condemnation, hatred and death, which master do we serve? Can we ever be forgiven for all sin? Inevitably, yes… There is only one unforgivable sin and that hasn’t happened yet. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ sacrificed his life for a reason and it was out of the love of his children (the angels, in the flesh). It is all biblically written but, not acknowledged by man-made doctrines… It is still more profitable to be the mediator between man and God as the old temples of God made by hands were.
    I cannot judge those involved but, I can judge their ideologies as Jesus Christ did.

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