Thursday, 27 April 2017

LIMERICK DIOCES HAS PRIEST FREE DAY!



Altered image of church as Limerick goes priestless

‘‘ It was excellent, a change from the ordinary Mass. We still prayed. You miss holy Communion all right.

  About 150 lay people replaced priests on altars yesterday morning across the Catholic Diocese of Limerick for the first time in its 900-year history.

  The entirely lay-led Liturgy of the Word morning church events took place in the diocese’s 60 parishes, as every serving priest in the diocese attended a clergy conference with Bishop of Limerick Brendan Leahy to discuss, among other things, a more inclusive church fractured by abuse scandals.

  Masses took place later in three parishes.



  The practice of lay-led liturgy ceremonies is commonplace in other European countries, but yesterday marked the first time it involved an entire diocese in Ireland.

  Each service saw lay ministers lead congregations in 20-25 minutes of prayer and hymns. The sacrament of Communion was not permitted, as no priest was present.

  The seeds of change began at 10am at the 158-year-old St John’s Cathedral in Limerick city.

  As the church bell sounded, the 200-strong congregation stood up from their seats. But, instead of a male priest presiding from the altar, as has been the norm for more than a century and a half, three local women appeared in front of the marble and alabaster table to lead the congregation.

  Proud

  It was a “proud” moment for all three.

  “I love every block, and brick, and blade of grass here,” said Caroline McDonagh, who helped to lead her congregation in their faith from the same altar where she was baptised.

  Along with her fellow lay leaders and Eucharistic ministers, Sharon Collopy and Trish Kennedy, she returned the applause the three women received from their fellow parishioners afterwards.

  “It was an honour to be asked to do it . . . and the reaction we got from the congregation, with a round of applause at the end, I think, said it all,” said McDonagh.

  They were “nervous” ahead of their task, but “pleased” their roles were “met with such approval”.

  None of them would go so far as to give their blessing for female priests.

  “I’d rather not get into that one at the moment, to be honest. I’m just very happy that, as a lay minister, I’m fulfilling what I need to do at the moment,” McDonagh said.

  Could she see a day when lay people would fill the entire role of priests, saying Mass, serving Communion and hearing Confessions? “I don’t. But, again, you never know. The day might come, but I don’t think it will in my lifetime.”

  For Collopy, it was “a privilege to be part of it”. She felt no pressure to perform the role of a priest but also said “it is important for us to be here to support the priests, and for me being a woman, being part of this morning’s liturgy, isn’t it wonderful I can be here within my own role – as a woman, as a layperson – who is here to support the priest and support the community?” Kennedy, a Eucharistic minister of 25 years, agreed. “Whatever we can do to support the priests, we are very happy to do it.”

  Communion

  However, Kennedy believed the congregation missed receiving the Eucharist.

  “They are so used to coming to their daily Mass and having Communion every day, [so] it would have been very strange for them. But, I’m sure that, going forward, there will be a case where you could have a daily liturgy where we won’t have Communion, so unfortunately it’s something that is going to happen down the line.”

  The majority of the congregation, a mix of middle-aged and older people, did indeed miss Holy Communion. One of the longest-serving parishioners, Mary Reale, who also performed a Gospel reading, felt the liturgy was “beautiful . . . but there’s nothing on earth that would replace the holy Mass”.

  She described the downturn in priest numbers as a “wake-up call” for the church. We need more vocations; we’ll have to pray hard.”

  Dominick Lipper (81) was in agreement: “It was lovely, but you miss the Mass, in particular going up to get Holy Communion.”

  John Brennan (67) didn’t miss the presence of a priest. “It was excellent, a change from the ordinary Mass . . . We still prayed. You miss Holy Communion all right; you have to have a slice of bread.”

  Ger Cowhey (85) favoured a “traditionalist” Mass format. “I liked that, but I’d rather have the priest. There was no men there preaching . . . What does that say?” 

However, he was still impressed with the format, and quipped: “I’ll come again. It might not be my thing, but I’ll go along with it.”

  Salvador Slattery (78) was undecided on the “strange” service. “Yes I liked it, it was strange . . . but, I suppose it’s going to be [the] thing down the line. You miss the Communion, the body and blood of Christ, and the priest. Often the priest goes on too long too. I prefer the short sermon, about 10 minutes.”
  Small step
  A diocesan spokesperson said “there are 108 Limerick diocesan priests; 73 are in active ministry, 65 of those in parishes (eight in non-parish roles) and 35 are retired”.’
  Speaking on Limerick’s Live 95FM, Bishop Leahy acknowledged Catholics “will feel the pain of not having the Mass”, but he said he expected more lay-led services becoming the norm into the future.
  “This is a step that we know we have to start moving into. It’s a first step and a small step; it’s not going to happen every week. It’s a first step to training for the future.”

PAT SAYS:

So the cure for the future desert of priests is to withdraw all priests for a day and deprive the people of Holy Communion ???

To me this shouts: GIMMICK !!!

There are fewer and fewer priests being ordained and that shortage will soon be a pandemic.

So apart from ordaining totally unsuitable sexually promiscuous gay men as priests they think the answer is a day of priest famine?

No thought of inviting the 250,000 priests who have left to think of coming back into active ministry?

No thought of inviting suitable married men to train for priesthood?

No thought of inviting women (more than half the population of Catholicism) to offer themselves for priesthood?

Instead - gimmicks ! gimmicks ! gimmicks !

And all this while 50% of the world's Roman Catholic parishes have no resident priest and no accesibility to Holy Communion?

This literally is "fiddling while Rome burns".

The RC Church does not deserve priests.

God and Fate will deprive them of their male pretend celibate priests.

Ii will also help to kill off clericalism.




86 comments:

  1. The Roman Catholic institutional WHORE does not need Christ-betraying, financially 'sponging' clergy. For Christ's sake! Wake the fuck up! Clergy are superfluous.

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    Replies
    1. I think good clergy an asset and bad ones a burden ??,

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    2. Pat you say you are going to keep nasty comments out of the blog, but here you have the most vile creature calling me a whore. I have dedicated my life to Christ, i am not a whore. A failed seminarian attacking a priest who serves faithfully at the Altar. Is that fair? Is that just? Stop allowing this rejected fool to spew hatred like this.

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    3. I totally agree with 08.18' Magna Carta hurts me personally when he keeps repeating that vile word on this blog on a regular basis. I'm surprised Pat that you allow this profanity, it makes me lose respect for you personally and your blog. The Church may be called many things and sometimes it's justified. However, to allow someone to use that vilest and disgusting term on this blog saddens me Pat as a Priest. I did have respect for you but that is slowly ebbing away.

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    4. Magna Carta is in immediate need of psychiatric care - coarse, ugly and fundamentally vulgar. It is probable that there is no cure for his condition - thus the numerous recommendations that he cease making any contributions to this blog.
      As for sponging, many priests could have excelled financially in other occupations. Indeed, many who have left the priesthood have improved their finances exponentially.
      Perhaps this is part of Magna's problem - couldn't make it in the priesthood and couldn't make it in the big, bad cold world!!!

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    5. MourneManMichael28 April 2017 at 10:01

      Magna: please!
      I understand the use of the 'F' word for emphatic indignation in heated verbal discussions, although I don't like it, or use it myself. But I do not think it appropriate or useful in written contributions.
      MMM

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    6. I really find that man Magna Carta totally offensive and horrid. Bishop Pat can I implore you as an elderly reader of your blog not to publish the crude and nasty words this man uses to berate and bully people on here. It's reallly putting people off reading your blog.

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    7. 08:18, I call the institutional Church 'whore' (which, indeed, it is) and you protest at this name-calling (which has biblical roots, by the way), but see nothing wrong in 'name-calling' me:'the most vile creature'. You're a hypocrite, a Pharisee. And we know what Jesus thought of them as a whole. He called them worse than 'whore': he called them 'fools!'

      You have posted against me before...repeatedly. I recognise your little, whining character.

      You, sir, revolt me. You are the kind of priest (if, indeed, this is what you are) who lacerates the Body of Christ daily, since there is no real love in you...as you have repeatedly proved in your whining against me. You, personally, make me sick!

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    8. Bishop Pat, I think good PEOPLE are an asset. Period.

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    9. MMM, I respect you, unlike most of the 'sponging' priests who post on this blog. Therefore I shan't use the F-word again.

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    10. 10:06, hasn't put you off, has it?

      Come off it, old timer! My comments probably make your day. 'Summons the blood and stiffens the sinews', eh?

      You're like Mary Whitehouse, who grumbled mind-numbingly about the 'moral filth' on television, but just couldn't tear herself away from watching it.

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    11. Magna Carta should take a long and preferably permanent vacation without access to computers, iPads and any other electronic device which might enable him to inflict his crudités on normal citizens!

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    12. 09:50, 'coarse, ugly and fundamentally vulgar'? I don't deny being coarse and vulgar on occasion, as, I'm sure, are you. But ugly? Afraid not. My looks are the reason certain seminarians tried to 'get me into bed'(one of them persistently ).

      There is a 'cure for his condition': sweep away the clerical caste, off the face of the planet if possible.

      As for priests excelling financially in other occupations (or with the supposed ability to do so), what has this to do with my point on'sponging'? You didn't do well at comprehension in English class, did you?

      As for my excelling personally, if only you knew! :-)

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    13. MourneManMichael28 April 2017 at 21:02

      Thank you Magna for your reply @ 13:48.
      MMM

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  2. More poisonous invective from the spoiled priest Magna Carta.
    They did right to f*&k you out.

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    Replies
    1. 01.13 Pat I thought comments like this were being blocked

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    2. If you want to insult me 01:13, try to do so with the requisite literary aplomb: your 'insult' died an illiterate death in the second sentence of your comment. ('F*&k'?)

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  3. It's been all about the priest, and now in the absence of the priest it's all about the person asked to do it.
    Why did these people need a round of applause?

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    Replies
    1. So true. Mass is a social experience. Not a spiritual one at all. The congregation is now the audience. The altar is the stage. Any wonder why the youth, looking for real meaning, are looking to Buddhism, Hinduism et al for real introspective practice. Not this silly playacting.

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  4. Pat, I don't always agree with all you say, however, I have to admit that today you are speaking much sense. I don't understand also why all those priests who left the priesthood and are now married are not asked to come back into ministry. I think that they would inject a sense of normalcy and balance into what is blatantly now a distorted image of the priesthood in Ireland. I am not too sure about women priests ,but if the Church did decide on them in future, I would have no problem with that.

    I know of prayerful reflective men who would like to discern a call to the priesthood but have major concerns about Maynooth and are afraid of being labelled weird or gay or child abusers. There is nothing wrong with being gay, it is just that they don't want to be labelled incorrectly. This is an unfortunate situation which the bishops have allowed to spiral out of control. It is sad that the priesthood in Ireland now has such an impression in many minds.

    I think also at this stage that Maynooth is well past its sell by date. That institution has suffered many scandals over they years and I remember well the stories circulating about the place back in Ledwith's time.

    The question is: do the bishops have the creativity and the courage to think outside the box?

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    Replies
    1. What does the word 'prayerful' mean? Looking like you're praying but not really? How is it possible to pray in public - I mean commune with the deity - except as a playact?

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  5. 7.33 ,, if the church decides,,
    What do u mean there......we are the church, so we can decide that women can become priests....we could have a vote on it
    Why do many still think that the church is the pope and those pink men with paper hats....get real...it's time us people made decisions about OUR church

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    Replies
    1. Arlene's on fire28 April 2017 at 10:33

      That's Congregationalism rather than Catholicism.

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    2. The Holy Spirit's a congregationalist, then.

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  6. I also think it is a gimmick. There is no way I want to be pressurised into doing this in my dotage.

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  7. Arlene's on fire28 April 2017 at 10:41

    Magna Carta sounds like Ian Paisley in the 1970s. Plenty of people have been kicked out of seminaries, sometimes unfairly, but it's not worth spending these precious years we have on this earth seething about it and lashing out. As for the clergy being superfluous, we need and value them, as men of prayer, leaders, preachers, celebrants of the sacraments, friends. At important as well as ordinary times they've helped me and my family, sometimes heroically.

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    1. (Sigh) I was never kicked out of a seminary...ANY seminary; in fact I excelled. But if you choose to believe the opposite, what can I do?

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    2. Oh you continue to excel in vulgarity and bad manners.

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    3. Look beyond the 'vulgarity and bad manners' to the serious points I make.

      There are gems in the mud.

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    4. Arlene, for seminarians and religious who were treated unfairly it is precisely this reason that prevents many from completely moving on. Life can change abruptly for anyone it's true and that can be really difficult to accept and assimilate, but for those who envisioned themselves priests / religious the feeling that they are now on a path not intended for them can be deeply unsettling and upsetting be that as a constant backdrop or returning at various points in life.

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    5. Tom, you are a good and wise man. But I suspect your wisdom is 'pearls before swine'.

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    6. Tom, I empathise with you and understand were you are coming from. I wish I could help in some way and I won't rubbish your post just like Magna Carta has done.

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    7. No, I most certainly did not 'rubbish' Tom's post, but pointed out that his important point would be wasted on certain people...like you.

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    8. Arlene, I have seen a little bit of the church behind the scenes. What I saw was backbiting, gossip,character assassination and bullying. It was more like a scene from Wolf Hall. Then they go onto say mass looking all holy. I felt really sorry for
      some of the priests. Really quite toxic. Very nasty things can happen to good people.

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    9. Thanks to all those who have and continue to support me. @10:54 You have helped, simply by expressing the desire. :-)

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    10. Tom, 10:45 was making mischief, because he despises me.

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    11. MC, I didn't think you were rubbishing my post / comment and my thanks included you. :-)

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  8. Pat can u please not allow posts that contain gross descriptive words
    I don't think that posters should call another a fool either
    Please stop all these personal attacks, ridiculous also as most are anonymous.

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  9. Clergy are superfluous if they are seen to be allowed to remain on the altar, supposedly celibate and then we read that some are having illicit sex.
    Yes they should be allowed to marry or have a partner, so that needs to change too.we don't need hypocrites leading us
    Pat did you read the article in the times about how journalists acted in the 1940s or rather how the clerics were treated then..what a history us Irish Catholics have...disgraceful !!!!

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  10. Jane, don't know what you mean by dotage. Lol
    I'm 78, female and having a ball...life can be so wonderful if only we are open to new beginnings.

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    Replies
    1. Rock on, girl!!

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    2. It was a personal opinion. I would rather do other things in my spare time.

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  11. Gimmick or not this is definitely a step in the right direction. I remember when I worked with National School everything in church was a"mass" in the eyes of the children. All christians are are baptised into the Priesthood Prophet and Kingship of Christ. The people need to rediscover their true identity and clergy need to let go of control. There will always be a need and role for an ordained clergy but not as lord and master of all they survey

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    Replies
    1. Is that why you joined a Church Page that persecuted Catholics and murdered them.

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    2. 21.49 Mr/Rev. Anonymous. (I address you civilly by the way. Please take note) Get over the fact I've left the jurisdiction canonically speaking. I know priests who have changed denominations both RC and CoE and there is no animosity....Only in Ireland?..Sad. As you rightly infer all denominations have sins in the closet requiring attonement.

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    3. You wrongly assume I'm in Ireland which gives no credence to your argument Mr Page. Just remember, the Church of England was built on rot, that's its foundations sadly. Like you, Henry VIII fell out with Rome because it came down to the shagging of a woman or women in his case, you both left and became part of a pretend Church, what a laugh.

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    4. 23.06 I stand corrected on your location. It appears your issue is with the church establishments and not with me. Please channel your comments in the appropriate direction. Using me as a continued scapegoat in this regard amounts to bullying and religious discrimination.

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    5. 23:06, the pope probably would have granted Henry the divorce he sought had he not been so frightened of the military and political consequences of crossing Queen Catherine's nephew, the Emperor Charles. So don't try to pretend that the whore, institutional Roman Catholicism, approached the matter of Henry's request for divorce with anything morally more noble than partisan self-interest.

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    6. Ordained clergy "Not Lord & Master of all they survey" but perhaps as overseers? (Bishops?)

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  12. A pity it was just a day without priests, maybe they should trial it for a month without or every other month without a priest.

    I am convinced that there would be very little protests and demands for the daily need to be reinstated as daily attendances in most parishes is never high typically a 100 or less. So out of a population of what ever millions that would be a very low percentage.

    The faithful have wised up to the controlling nature of the church and voted rightly with its feet to stay away or suit themselves as a when they want.

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  13. My personal opinion is that Magna's comment is over the top. Magna you do actually sound like Ian Paisley.
    I also think the reaction to him is over the top and is overly personal and based on attacking an event in his life which was probably very painful.

    Pat, I'm only suggesting this as one possible course of action, but if this was my own blog I would contact Magna Carta offline and ask him to tone the insults down. I would then contact named commenters offline who I think are insulting, or just not publish insulting anonymous comments.
    On the other hand Magna Carta's comment was guaranteed to cause a ruckus so you could also have not let it through moderation and contacted him to tone it down.

    Given the frequency with which the comments are derailed from the subject of the blog onto Magna Carta, have you also satisfied yourself that he is what he says he is and not one of your haters in the role of agent saboteur?

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    Replies
    1. Oh, I am no hater of Bishop Pat Buckley. He is one of the most courageous and compassionate men I know.

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  14. Pat I appeal to you. Please do something to rein MC in. You must challenge him about his language, and if he persists, block his comments in the way that you have stopped those who criticise and attack him. Please.

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    1. Those who attack me have been blocked? Really? Have you read today's blog fully?

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  15. With respect I have to give MC credit. He makes a comment, normally the Church is a whore, he gets a reaction which he wants and he is laughing at the people who find his comments insulting. Fair play to MC, you do give me a laugh.

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  16. BLOCK MC IM SO SICK OF HIM AND HIS BIG WORDS HE MUST GO WE HAVE ALL HAD ENOUGH OF YOURE NONSENCE MC YOU MUST GO!!!!!!!!

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    1. Where are those blasted 'You're' Police when needed?

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    2. To Magna Carta re/"you're " police.
      A very temporary absence I assure you. We haven't gone away you know!

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  17. This blog has degenerated into a playground for fools. Goodbye.

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  18. Ah mc, why did you 'leave' seminary? Oh please do regale us with your wonderful tales.

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    Replies
    1. But I didn't 'leave' seminary.

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    2. So you were ordained? Deacon or priest?

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  19. Is it just Magna Cagna who is behaving like Ian Paisley or also Brendan Leahy? The Bishops seem to be embracing a future of lay-led prayer services with positive enthusiasm. I have often wondered why they don't give up the pretence and become Protestants (oh hang on they'd have to give up their hats, titles and palaces). This crisis (it is a crisis to me though not to the hierarchy) is a natural consequence of policies that they have pursued over the last half century.

    Meanwhile the Pope is quoted today on catholicherald.co.uk as saying that clergy should not be encouraging vocations or bothering with evangelisation.

    Incidentally, the rotate caeli blog reports that members of a traditionalist order were not summoned to the 'away day'. So there was a mass celebrated somewhere in Limerick, but it was of the Tridentine variety.

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  20. 'What y'sayin', then, "Dave"? (Trigger to Rodney: Only Fools and Horses)

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  21. Nothing wrong with big words 18.22 it's the nasty words, disgusting words
    Magna, please use your intelligence to a higher model
    When someone goes low you can respond by going higher.
    I don't want you to stop posting...just use different words and address the post not the poster.
    Most of us are long time posters and to criticise the poster is so last year.

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  22. 18:49, you have been polite and respectful. I shall try harder.

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  23. MC seems really to have got something going here. Regardless of the wording- perhaps the swear words should go as should attacks on any posters personality by any other person- the challenge is for all to address the subject matter raised and leave the "quirky headline grabbers" to the tabloids

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  24. Pat, Brendan Leahy doesn't hide behind a bushel nor does his CV (splattered on the diocesan website). He studied law in UCD before he entered Seminary. You'd swear he was Rumpole of the Bailey. Yet he was in Seminary by the time he was 20. He appears to be a type of human unique to Ireland, a Christian Brothers' Boy made good. There's nothing wrong with alumni of Christian Brothers', but there's a particular type with chips on their shoulders, particularly in Dublin and they feel that since they didn't go to one of the better schools that they have to prove themselves. I am not giving out about them, just a particular sub set of them. Finally, it must kill the likes of Frank Duhig in Limerick who gave his life to Maynooth and knows where all the bodies are buried to have failed to get the ultimate prize, the bishopric of Limerick. As my great grandmother would have said, 'There wouldn't be a God in Heaven if that didn't happen to him'. Oh and for the record, I agree with you. That's all a gimmic. Sure didn't they send the former hairdresser priest, Finnerty, over to Rome to look after the seminarians over there. He had been Bishop's secretary. Sure if they got him back couldn't he look after a parish? Why did they (Limerick) need to send a priest over to be on staff in the Irish College? Had they a surplus of them that they could spare one?

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  25. I've had enough of this blog, numerous people have appealed to you today about MC, Bishop Pat, including me. You have let him use that awful word again about the Church and against Priests. I've done with this blog and I've done with you Pat. I'm sorry to have lost a friend in you.

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    1. God sake, grow a pair, Anon at 20:49.
      Its called free speech.
      Get over it.

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    2. Zero time your response to that person at 20.49 is totally insensitive. He/She is only reflecting what other numerous people have been saying all day on this blog with regards to MC. You are just being as crass as MC. Free speech is one thing but bullying, rude, nasty and vulgar speech is another. I'm surprised this blog has been allowed to descend beyond the gutter but it says it all. Not sure what direction Pat Buckley's taking this blog but in the last few days it's been into the sewer with the major help of MC. I suggest you grow a brain as well as a pair.

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    3. 21:37, have you criticised those comments against me that were 'bullying, rude, nasty and vulgar'? Because if you haven't (and I suspect you haven't), then it really isn't 'bullying, rude, nasty and vulgar' remarks that annoy you, but me.

      Don't remain a hypocrite: You won't 'grow a brain'.

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    4. 'That awful word again about the Church and against Priests (sic)'? Oh, dear! You're not very well educated, are you 20:49? On Scripture?

      'That awful word' (let's be less circumspect, 'WHORE'!) has a proud scriptural tradition. The prophets envisioned the covenant between Yahweh and his people as a marriage. (You don't know any of this, do you? Did you take the seminarist course? For the not-so-bright?) And breach of it by God's people was considered adultery and harlottry, 'whoredom'. So if you have a gripe about my using this word, take it up with God, not with me.

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    5. Your title spelling speaks to me! What is a dioces?

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    6. More tea, vicar?29 April 2017 at 22:53

      Have you not heard that we live in an era of austerity. Surperflous Es must go. Saves ink offline, and bandwith and electricity online.

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  26. MourneManMichael29 April 2017 at 12:05

    The absent 'e' refers, like the title, to the absence of ecclesiastics.
    Good one Pat. Very subtle.
    MMM

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  27. 10.59 It's the Irish Gaelic spelling for diocese which is the jurisdiction a Bishop is responsible for 😀

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  28. More tea, vicar?29 April 2017 at 12:41

    A few sultry PPs on the clergy page of the diocese of Cloyne website, including Gerard Condon and Francis Manning.

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  29. 12.41 Don't mind if ai doo. Milk no sugah thank yoo

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    1. More tea, vicar?29 April 2017 at 22:48

      Clerical ears must thrill to that lovely question, if it's ever asked in real life nowadays.

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  30. In response to More tea, vicar? at 12:41, Gerard Condon is definitely sultry but not so taken with Francis Manning. Have a look instead at Brian Boyle.......yes!

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    1. More tea, vicar?29 April 2017 at 22:42

      Aquin Casey is a fine silverhead.

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