Sunday, 4 June 2017

WHY DO SEMINARIES HAVE A GAY SUBCULTURE?

Image result for seminary gay sub culture


WHY DO MODERN CATHOLIC GAY SEMINARIES HAVE A GAY SUBCULTURE?

That is a very valid question we must ask even given the ongoing controversies at our own Maynooth seminary.

During the night the following email arrived to me from a Maynooth source:



"First picture

Conor 'Jasmine' Gannon with Shane 'Aladdin' Costello and Joseph 'Monkey' Gormley on Jasmine's floor in Maynooth. (Picture from Snapchat)

Second picture 

The girls in cafe bonbon in Maynooth posing. 

Third picture 

Jasmine meeting Francis"

The Maynooth source included the following pictures in the email. These picture had already been published on the internet by one of the seminarians in his Snapchat account. 




------------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------------------





As you can see from the email the three seminarians nicknames are "Jasmine", "Aladdin" and "Monkey".

A former seminarian who was in St Andrew's Seminary in Scotland when the gay and disgraced Cardinal Keith O'Brien was the spiritual director there, said the following

"Homosexual behaviour was relatively commonplace at the institution, a former country home with more than 50 rooms, which had opened to trainee priests in the Fifties and closed in 1986.

‘At a conservative guess, at least a third of my peers had gay feelings for other seminarians during their time at St Andrew’s,’ says one alumnus, ordained in 1982. ‘For many gay men at the time, particularly from rural communities, the priesthood was one of the few career paths you could pursue without having to spend your life answering awkward questions about why you weren’t yet married.’ 

Another former seminarian, who dropped out after less than a year and is now openly gay, says the homosexual identity of many of his peers was an ‘open secret’ among staff and students. 

In the tight-knit, secluded environment, daily rituals such as lighting candles or preparing the altar for Mass became loaded with homo-eroticism, he said. 

‘We all knew it went on. When alcohol came out, you’d see people becoming more tactile,’ he says.

‘The irony was that the gay seminarians would generally be the ones to take the most conservative positions when we’d discuss sexual issues. It was the hypocrisy that I couldn’t stand.’"

This seminarian goes so far as to say that even lighting the altar candles for Mass was "loaded with homoeroticism".

Another source:

Many priests and theologians have commented about the gay sub-cultures in Catholic seminaries:

bullet
An anonymous priest from the Boston area commented in an interview with Joe Fitzgerald of the Boston Herald: "there's a subculture of gay priests and everyone knows it. I went through seminary with a lot of them and got hit on. And when I reported it, I was harassed to a point where, emotionally, it was very difficult to get ordained. I'm not the only one who had to fight to get through it; I know guys who left because of it. It was clear there was a cabal tacitly saying, 'Don't bother reporting this stuff.' You wouldn't believe the self-justifications, like, 'Well, celibacy only applies to not getting married, so since we're not getting married we can do whatever we want.' It was horrible, with a lot of intimidation, but I stayed because I felt this was what God was calling me to do; besides, if I'd walked, they'd have won.8
bullet
Father McBrien, a theologian at the University of Notre Dame, commented that some seminary students "...who feel they have a genuine vocation for priesthood go into a seminary and feel very alienated by the gay culture. I don't say this in any homophobic sense. It's just the reality.2
bullet
Pope John Paul II held a meeting with the American cardinals which dealt with the clerical sex scandals. Afterward, Bishop Wilton Gregory, head of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said: "One of the difficulties we do face in seminary life or recruitment is made possible when there does exist a homosexual atmosphere or dynamic that makes heterosexual men think twice [about entering.] It is an ongoing struggle to make sure the Catholic priesthood is not dominated by homosexual men.9
bullet
R. Scott Appleby, a history professor at Notre Dame, said: "People I know quite well have left the seminary either in disgust because people are not keeping vows, or in alienation because they’re not gay. In some cases it’s a serious problem.3
bullet
The Most Rev. Wilton Gregory said: "[T]here does exist a homosexual atmosphere or dynamic that makes heterosexual men think twice."3
bullet
The Rev. Charles Bouchard, president of the Aquinas Institute of Theology in St. Louis said: "I think straight priests and seminarians shouldn’t be whining. I just don’t think it’s a big deal.3
bullet
Father Donald Cozzens wrote: "What impact does the gay subcultrue have on the straight priest and seminarian?....straight men in a predominantly or significantly gay environment commonly experience chronic destabilization, a common symptom of which is self doubt...Their psychic confusion, understandably, has significant implications for both their spiritual vitality and emotional balance.10
bullet
Timothy Radcliffe, Master of the Order of Preachers, commented on the emergence of a homosexual sub-culture within a seminary or religious order: "It can threaten the unity of the community; it can make it harder for the brethren to practice the chastity which we have vowed. It can put pressure on brethren to think of themselves in a way that is not central to their vocation as preachers of the Kingdom...11

PAT SAYS:

It is quite clear that seminaries like Maynooth have a gay subculture.

You see this in the flamboyant behaviour of some seminarians - their love of dressing up in lace - and the fact that they refer to each other by female names and referring to each other as "girls".

It also shows itself in two seminarians having "exclusive friendships" or in seminarians belonging to a feminine "gay gang".

Some seminarians have talked of seminarians changing diocese so that after ordination they can be in the same diocese as their "Friend".

There is talk about "goings on" at World Youth Day and in "The Meadow" in Lourdes after dark.

I ask myself where this gay subculture comes from.

Is it emanating from:

1. The twisted Catholic teaching on homosexuality and sexuality in general?

2. The fact that the seminary / priesthood allows you to live a double life - a "respectable life" as a seminarian / priest and a secret life as a gay man?

3. Having a seminarian / priest partner / lover is safer from exposure than having a lay partner / lover?

4. The fact that many bishops and seminary staff have a gay orientation themselves and are "preferential" to gay candidates for priesthood?

I would very much appreciate the views of Blog readers on this complex issue.



------------------------------------------
PHOTOS FROM OUR SOURCE IN THE IRISH COLLEGE, ROME.

DERMO AND GORGEOUS CELEBRATE TOGETHER IN ROME RECENTLY:



----------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------


82 comments:

  1. The gayest thing in this post is actually the decoration of the church. Not what you'd call simple or manly, it looks like a flower festival.
    Seminarians have had girls' nicknames forever - to me it doesn't necessarily mean anything about Jasmine but publishing these names is very silly.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A lot of current seminarians are wonderful flower arrangers.

      Delete
    2. I can just imagine all the screaming going on up ladders arranging the flowers above the altar. LOL.

      Delete
  2. In religious orders one of the ways in which a special friendship between student master and student can be noticed is where the student master gives preferential treatment to a student by shortening the time they have to spend before profession or ordination or both while his teammates have to take the longer route.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aw...... were you discriminated against?

      Delete
    2. It comes from the fact that heterosexual men have next to zero interest in the priesthood so people ought to be grateful that gay men have taken up the mantle. And no, the heterosexuals have zero interest independent of any knowledge of strange goings on in the seminaries - they just have no interest. So you put a lot of gay men together you will find some type of sub-culture developing among a certain group.

      The most odious character in all of this is the source (was that you in Harrington Street the other day or maybe I'm blaming you unfairly when in fact the source is still in Santi Quattro for a week or two yet.

      Delete
    3. It wouldn't bother me at all if we had two married gay priest in the presbytery. I have worked with gay men and they are very caring.

      Delete
    4. No stereotyping here at all. I suppose you think red heads have fiery tempers and the French smell of garlic.

      Delete
  3. Sorry to sound cynical, but have no time at all for Roman Catholic clergy. (Useless, self-serving, Christ-betraying whores.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. MC, do you not accept that there are a small number of good guys too?

      Delete
    2. I feel so sorry for the good guys. Our priest is excellent and I suspect he suffers horribly. On the plus side the parish love him to bits and are very supportive.

      Delete
    3. Have never met a Roman Catholic priest who truly regarded himself as a servant. Christ commanded this, but these whores have NEVER obeyed him.

      Delete
  4. People have been play acting in different shapes and forms for centuries. There are the college houses in America the different lodges and groups like the Masons. Problem with the church is that when it becomes a subculture it is the public who suffer because many of the alleged caregivers are cought up in their own fantasy world.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Sorry about the last comment. Too much drink taken at an all night party!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No worries. It could happen to a bishop :-)

      Delete
    2. The party looks like it was really fun:
      https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=traffic+wardens+party&safe=off&client=ms-android-sonymobile&prmd=sniv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzz52O8aPUAhXKKlAKHcSTDAEQ_AUICygD&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=4WT4NU_MiX_e4M:

      Delete
    3. Bishop P., that comment wasn't from me.

      Delete
    4. 10.37 Whats the above address which is a load of pictures have to do with anything. Can the genuine church in Ireland please stand up and be counted.I'm sure you are out there.My cousin lives in a rural parish, ordinary folk doing the best they can. I sometimes wonder if they are aware of the kind of stuff we see on here.....?

      Delete
    5. It was a picture of Magna Carta and his fellow traffic wardens partying away, celebrating their record number of penalty notices this week. How's the hangover?

      Delete
    6. 16.40 Thank you. I think I understand-sort of. Hangover? Haven't had one in nearly 20 years. I'm not immune from the odd headache if that counts though 😀

      Delete
  6. I must say that when I was in Clonliffe - 1970 - 1973 and Waterford - 1973 - 1976 there was no gay subculture. The atmosphere was quite balanced and sane.

    Of course there were individuals having gay sex - more in Clonliffe than in Waterford - but there were also very obvious heterosexual men.

    In my ordination class of 1976 there were 6.

    Two left the priesthood later to marry women. Two of us are still in ministry. One died. The other was not ordained.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Could have done with a party last night, Magna!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  8. The comedian Al Porter wrote in the Irish Times that the best thing about the catholic World Youth Day in Sydney was the sex he had with a young priest!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sydney was 2008. Al was 15 and definitely not there.

      Delete
    2. Mea Culpa! It was the WYD in Germany.

      Delete
    3. Cologne was 2005. Could you have meant Madrid in
      2011?

      Delete
    4. It was Madrid :When did he lose his faith? “I went over to World Youth Day in Madrid. And I smoked weed for the first time and I was drinking and I was really attracted to this young priest who was there. And there were other people on the pilgrimage who were shaking and crying and saying they had experienced something divine. I felt nothing. It was really overcrowded, and Pope Benedict was quite underwhelming, and I remember thinking, ‘Everything I’ve been talking about that’s divine is really human.’
      “And then I ended up having a night of booze and weed and sleeping with that priest. We had wild, euphoric, wonderful sex, and I went, ‘You know what? [Being a priest] is not for me.’”

      Delete
    5. And then people say the devil is not real! Scripture says he goes about "like s roaring lion seeking whom he may devour" The greater the fall from grace, the bigger his conquest.

      Delete
    6. And the devil's greatest advantage and achievement has been to convince people that he doesn't exist!

      Delete
    7. 'The greater the fall from grace'...??? Are you havin' us on? NO Roman Catholic priest has very far to fall in terms of grace: they are all Christ-betrayin' whores, almost by definition.
      ( Useless parasites the lot of them.)

      Delete
    8. Are you filled with hatred? It certainly sounds like it

      Delete
    9. Don't fall for it at 19.35, MC is on one of his predictable tirades again. Just ignore him, it's been bliss without his ranting on here recently but that hasn't lasted long I notice. He thinks by calling Priests the vilest of names on here will get people to respond but most of us don't fall for it anymore. I'm replying to you 19.35 by the way and not MC.

      Delete
    10. Yes he is.

      Delete
    11. Disappointed you didn't publish my replies, Bishop P.

      Delete
    12. @Magna Carta
      Obviously he didn't publish them because they were rude. People have repeatedly spoken to you about the way you feel free to abuse people on here, insult their intelligence, shout them down, and so on. I think he has actually given you a lot of leeway on this blog and you routinely get away with behaviour which is beyond insulting.
      I note you commented at 02:58 - another all-night bender? Are all of your insulting comments written under the affluence of incohol?

      Delete
    13. 17:52, I'm at my intellectual best when passed.

      And I have never insulted the intelligence of any one on this blog, because I have never cone across anyone with the requisite intelligence.

      By the way, this 'bender' is now in its third day. A record for me.

      Delete
    14. Send out for a fish supper and have a big mug of strong tea as a change from the booze! Do you good.

      Delete
  9. The former BBC religious correspondence, Carole Wyatt says;

    ‘So, you say in your letter to the pope, that the clergy is full of homosexuals. Is that really the case?’

    Her incredulous tone was an insult to peoples’ intelligence.

    ReplyDelete
  10. It is fairly clear to anyone with a remotely normal life that a requirement of celibacy for the priesthood is simply asking for trouble, particularly nowadays with blogs like this justifiably exposing hypocrisy and scandal on an almost daily basis.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Pat, Joseph left seminary for a man two years ago. Why are they on Conor Jasmine's floor in seminary???

    Scandalous!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A ‘subculture’ is a cultural group within a larger culture. But there’s no larger culture, they’re all gay.

      Delete
    2. whats scandalous about leaving the seminary to fall in love? whats scandalous about being a gay man and having seminarians as friends and possibly visiting them? get a grip!

      Delete
    3. It gives the appearance of scandal.

      Delete
    4. 11.54 Is the larger culture not the island of Ireland and Everyone on it? Is part of the problem not that some maynoothites allegedly are ill prepared for the real world after going through what Maynooth exposes them to. Ive never been there and am only going off what I read here. My experience of clerical life in Ireland is well outdated by now I presume

      Delete
    5. Perhaps, but seminaries, well, the last two remaining in the British Isles have become more or less extensions of the gay scene, or community if you like... the unacceptable face of gay life.

      Delete
    6. Dear oh dear! On the floor! Very sinful and here's me sprawling sinfully on my carpet this very minute! Getting a dirty look from the dog and no wonder...

      Delete
  12. Who is Conor Jasmine? Who is Joseph?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Thanks Pat, two very nice looking seminarians , Shane Costello is always my favourite , he is like a Conor Cunningham of Galway in his day.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You seem to think it's a beauty contest.

      Delete
  14. Pat things are not good in Tuam, Sr.Breege is not happy !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She probably didnt like the sandwiches.

      Delete
  15. These are old pics , Joe has left ages ago. Go back to the source and get up to date ones. These pics are inside someones rooms, so therefore the person taking the pics was also there??? has he not revealed his identity NOW?

    ReplyDelete
  16. Maynooth needs Tim Ratcliff to come and sort it out.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Sometimes when a Director of Priestly Formation (whatever that is!) tries to block someone from ordination/profession (successfully or otherwise) it can be the result of sexual frustration or unrequited sexual desire on his part.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In total agreement with the above. A good mate of mine was having issues in a seminary , he told his vocations director and bishop. Response was : put your head down and get on with it , if you want to get ordained. Now please tell me thats not ok?

      Delete
  18. Who is the Bishop in the first photograph - is it for real or a most unbecoming windup?
    Enlighten us, please, Bishop Buckley!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Any update on TUAM PAt

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No. But I am sure there are many sad hearts there.

      Delete
    2. Pourquoi? Où est l'hippopotame pygmée.

      Delete
    3. @21.51
      Essayez de regarder dans votre miroir!

      Delete
  20. Alladin ,Jasmine (God's gift in Persian) and Monkey are all oriential names. Maybe the boys on a carpet were attempting to be funny? God forbid Priests should relax or have a sense of humour?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. God forbid priests. Full stop. (Useless parasites.)

      Delete
    2. Is being gay all about sex? Is that it?

      Delete
    3. Pretty much.. yeah

      Delete
    4. Well I've met several homosexuals and without exception they were all well turned out, kept house beautifully and were kind to their mothers.

      Delete
    5. I made a serious effort, beginning eight years ago, to turn away from homophobia in order to understand gays better, to be more sympathetic, and supportive of greater legal rights for them. Your comment almost makes me wish I hadn't bothered.

      Doesn't it bother you that someone wants you only for sex and not for yourself. I used girls that way and I'm ashamed of myself for it. I wish I could turn back the clock to make things right.

      Don't leave yourself like me. Value people for themselves. Fall in love with them. Are gays capable of love? Real love! Your comment nakes me ask this.

      Delete
    6. What the heck has your comment to do with my question?

      Is being gay just about sexually scoring? Because if it is, I'm reverting to homophobic type.

      Delete
    7. Don't worry, Magna, your advice not to be like you is the one piece of your advice I will follow without hesitation.

      Delete
    8. Maggie, I never knew you were a Lesbian.

      Delete
    9. Didn't you? What an idiot you are!

      Delete
    10. @23.20
      Lol

      Delete
  21. One of the surest tell-tale signs that a student master or 'director of priestly formation' is experiencing unreturned sexual desire is when he tries to block the recruit who is the object of his sexual interest from profession/ordination on the grounds that the student is suffering from deep-seated anger, which no one else, apart from the director, recognises.

    ReplyDelete
  22. When is the Tuam story going to break Pat?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quand ils trouvent le petit hippopotame.

      Delete
  23. Pat , what else did you source say in the email. if sending pics of these 3 characters , are we to believe there is something going on ? are these part of the 2016 class in maynooth?

    ReplyDelete
  24. Pat from reading your blog about that poor tuam deacon , it makes me think about the two other famous deacons that have featured here. If the bishop of tuam could have a meeting with a young man on the sunday before he was to be ordained and get him to cancel his ordaination , there might be hope for the other two that they may not be ordained. This tuam boy went through 7 years of seminary , why does the bishop call a halt to it at the last min? , also when all the shit was happening last summer in maynooth , why didnt Bishop neary not check then?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It has only been deferred... pending further enquiries.

      Delete
    2. 'deferred' in Gaynooth means there is trouble. where have you been the past year?

      Delete
    3. Because at that time they didnt tell him what was going on the sandwiches.

      Delete
    4. What?. The Ordination or the Sandwiches.

      Delete
  25. It must be hard if you're a Maynooth seminarian.6 June 2017 at 19:19

    Was it on this thread or another one that Dame Maggie claimed to have enchanted not just one, but several women? That's as convincing as the similar claims by Amy (Junior Infirmary) Martin, and Brian ('where's the microphone') Darcy. LOL

    ReplyDelete