Friday, 21 July 2017

NEW VATICAN INDULGENCES!

Vatican offers 'time off purgatory' to followers of Pope Francis tweets

Papal court handling pardons for sins says contrite Catholics may win 'indulgences' by following World Youth Day on Twitter


    Image result for pope francis twitter
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Tuesday 16 July 2013 18.50 BST

In its latest attempt to keep up with the times the Vatican has married one of its oldest traditions to the world of social media by offering "indulgences" to followers of Pope Francis' tweets.

The church's granted indulgences reduce the time Catholics believe they will have to spend in purgatory after they have confessed and been absolved of their sins.
The remissions got a bad name in the Middle Ages because unscrupulous churchmen sold them for large sums of money. But now indulgences are being applied to the 21st century.

But a senior Vatican official warned web-surfing Catholics that indulgences still required a dose of old-fashioned faith, and that paradise was not just a few mouse clicks away.

"You can't obtain indulgences like getting a coffee from a vending machine," Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli, head of the pontifical council for social communication, told the Italian daily Corriere della Sera.


CELLI


Indulgences these days are granted to those who carry out certain tasks – such as climbing the Sacred Steps, in Rome (reportedly brought from Pontius Pilate's house after Jesus scaled them before his crucifixion), a feat that earns believers seven years off purgatory.

But attendance at events such as the Catholic World Youth Day, in Rio de Janeiro, a week-long event starting on 22 July, can also win an indulgence.

Mindful of the faithful who cannot afford to fly to Brazil, the Vatican's sacred apostolic penitentiary, a court which handles the forgiveness of sins, has also extended the privilege to those following the "rites and pious exercises" of the event on television, radio and through social media.

"That includes following Twitter," said a source at the penitentiary, referring to Pope Francis' Twitter account, which has gathered seven million followers. "But you must be following the events live. It is not as if you can get an indulgence by chatting on the internet."

In its decree, the penitentiary said that getting an indulgence would hinge on the beneficiary having previously confessed and being "truly penitent and contrite".

Praying while following events in Rio online would need to be carried out with "requisite devotion", it suggested.

Apart from the papal Twitter account, the Vatican has launched an online news portal supported by an app, a Facebook page, and it plans to use the online social networking site Pinterest.

"What really counts is that the tweets the Pope sends from Brazil or the photos of the Catholic World Youth Day that go up on Pinterest produce authentic spiritual fruit in the hearts of everyone," said Celli.




WIKIPEDIA:
In the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, an indulgence is "a way to reduce the amount of punishment one has to undergo for sins".[1] It may reduce the temporal punishment after death, in the state or process of purification called Purgatory.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes an indulgence as "a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints".[2]
The recipient of an indulgence must perform an action to receive it. This is most often the saying (once, or many times) of a specified prayer, but may also include the visiting of a particular place, or the performance of specific good works.

By the late Middle Ages, the abuse of indulgences, mainly through commercialization, had become a serious problem which the Church recognized but was unable to restrain effectively. Indulgences were from the beginning of the Protestant Reformation a target of attacks by Martin Luther and all other Protestant theologians. Eventually the Catholic Counter-Reformation curbed the excesses, but indulgences continue to play a role in modern Catholic religious life. Reforms in the 20th century largely abolished the quantification of indulgences, which had been expressed in terms of days or years. These days or years were meant to represent the equivalent of time spent in penance, although it was widely taken to mean time spent in Purgatory. The reforms also greatly reduced the number of indulgences granted for visiting particular churches and other locations.Indulgences were introduced to allow for the remission of the severe penances of the early Church and granted at the intercession of Christians awaiting martyrdom or at least imprisoned for the faith.[3] They draw on the treasury of merit accumulated by Christ's superabundantly meritorious sacrifice on the cross and the virtues and penances of the saints.[4] They are granted for specific good works and prayers[4] in proportion to the devotion with which those good works are performed or prayers recited.[5]

PAT SAYS:

With its vast wealth you would think that the RC Church would employ better PR people. 

Everyday the Vatican or some bishop or priest shoots themselves in the foot by doing or saying something stupid.

Now Rome brings back one of the things that contributed to the Reformation - INDULGENCES and the selling/provision of them.

The existence of Purgatory is a doubtful doctrine in itself. But now you can BUY time off Purgatory by following Pope Francis on Twitter and saying prayers while you are doing it.

You can also get an indulgence if you go to World Youth Day or follow it on TV and pray.

We have already seen recently that for many priests and young people WYD is nothing better than a f### fest - with city rubbish authorities having to clean up thousands of used condoms from fields and beaches.


Image result for world youth day condoms

We have also seen how young gay priests and seminarians are using WYD to seduce and have sex with young Catholic men.

Image result for gay priests

Remember the Armagh Farmer on this Blog who wrote to Amy Martin about a priest who came on to his on World Youth Day.


Remember he is STILL WAITING for a response from Amy to his letter.


The world is going one way and the Vatican and the RC Church are out of touch and going in the other direction - that is - back to the middle ages.

ITS SIMPLE

If you believe in God and think you have sinned you tell God you are sorry and receive God's forgiveness and go away to try and not do the same bad thing again.

Why believe that God is an ETERNAL JAILER going to let you out of jail early if you follow a pope on Twitter or jet off to big holy party on the other side of the world where the behaviour of many, including priests, can be "strange".

Things like indulgences get Christianity a bad name.

59 comments:

  1. That article is four years old so you must have very little to report on and/or occupy yourself with this summer, Pat. Furthermore, your "take" on indulgences is a caricature and a travesty of the actual teaching. You should know better. But then again maybe not. As regards purgatory, we will all be glad of it. You will be fortunate to get there. I imagine your cell mate with be one Cahal B Daly! Lol

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  2. Will someone explain what an indulgence is to Pat, please?

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    1. Why don't you explain it to me?

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    2. People used to WRONGLY imagine that when they heard that this or that "Indulgence" was for say, 30 days, that meant that thirty days was taken off their Purgatory! That was the mistaken belief and priests did not seem to correct the misconception.
      That was not at all what even the Church in Luther's time was teaching (but he was correct to say that there were abuses happening. There were, at the time.)
      So what was the correct way of it then? Well, it was not at all sinister and actually quite reasonable, if misguided people had not deliberately or innocently distorted the truth. In roughly before and around Medieval times many people were trying to make atonement for wrongdoing of one kind or another -misdemeanours and more serious sins by publically putting themselves to pain by flagellation or beating and others were appearing in public wearing "sinne's garb" to invite ridicule and put themselves to shame as a way to make up for their wrongdoing. The sinner's garb was sometimes a rough sackcloth and ashes to the face to remind them of their own mortality. This seems so strange but was the norm at the time. The Church was anxious to point out to these determined,but sincerely repentant folk that there could be plenty of other ways to make up for sin without resorting to these means! Suggestions were made that for example, one could make several visits to the church and pray for the Holy Souls or make a pilgrimage in a mindset of repentance and hope for better life choices in future. They were advised to pray for the needs of the Church worldwide "the Pope's intentions". In order to get the point across to the sceptical sackcloth wearers etc, the Church (wisely or unwisely) tried to add weight to their argument by naming a particular activity or number of prayers etc and stating that "This will do as much good in reparation as 30 days of your kind of penance. Do it instead" (The length of time would be longer if the activity took longer or was physically challenging like fasting from overeating) Sometimes people who were in sackcloth because of thieving were advised to instead gain the reparation (or "Indulgence") by giving alms to the poor. So you see, how it all started.. But unfortunately, as always, mischief makers and the greedy spotted an opportunity to deceive worried uneducated sinners! They tried to convince them to pay for a particular pardon and it would be "guaranteed" in Heaven! The potential for abuse was there and there will always be unscrupulous people ready to cash in and yes, some were clergy. This was the situation which fuelled the Luther case and he was able to point the finger easily enough by then when things had got out of hand. I have done my best here to give the poster who enquired a fair and balanced and truthful answer. Cecily.

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    3. But why not promote prayer and works for charity as a sign of repentance rather than continue to promote a discredited notion like indulgences?

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    4. But why not promote prayer and works for charity as a sign of repentance rather than continue to promote a discredited notion like indulgences?

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    5. We have the 'Father' of biblical scholarship, St Jerome, to blame for the Church's unhealthy preoccupation with penitential atonement for sin (self-flagellation, and the rest).

      Jerome's translation into Latin of the Greek scriptures rendered the word 'metanoia' as (in English from the Latin) 'do penance'. But this is not the meaning of 'metanoia', a Greek word; it means 'repent', and nothing more. 'Repent' means 'to turn away from' (in this case, '...from sin').

      Inflicting physical, emotional, or psychical punishment is not necessarily a sign of repentance, is no substitute for it, and is not necessary anyhow (though I admit some people find it helps to reinforce repentance which has already taken place).

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    6. That is correct, Magna... and ironically that is exactly what the Church in later Middle Ages was trying to get across to people! - that instead of flagellation and sackcloth for 30 days, why not have prayer in a mindset of repentance for 30 days instead? But once the abusers got wind of the almsgiviving aspects of the advice, they rolled up their sleeves and cashed in. The original idea, which was fine in itself, lost its shape.

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  3. MourneManMichael21 July 2017 at 08:19

    Interesting blog Pat. Thanks.
    For me, it just goes to show even more clearly the absolute ridiculousness of the RC church. It's a self serving perpetuating hierarchical institution holding the 'faithful' in thrall with threats and fear of hell fire damnation.
    These RC pronunciations are so outlandishly weird that it's little wonder other branches of Christianity deride many RC practices.
    MMM

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  4. What a load of rubbish. Purgatory is an outdated concept. The life one leads on earth prepares a person in principle for whatever happens next. I believe one carries ones personality with them. Freedom of choice always remains with the individual in response to the reality that is presented to them. In the world of instant coffee I can see how some might be sucked into looking for get out of purgatory tokens

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  5. I asked once, a few months back, about your experiences as a priest with what people believe to be ghosts. From your experience as a priest and hearsay within the job, have you heard of people who believe they have encountered ghosts which have asked for masses or prayers to get them through Purgatory? I know it's more a medieval trope but I'm just curious if it persists today among believers in Ireland. If I could ask a second question and hopefully get a reply for it, from your experience again, when people tell you they have seen a ghost, have they perceived it as an evil, neutral or good presence and do they see it as someone they know or a stranger? Would be very happy with any answers.

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  6. As a committed Catholic I have always regarded Indulgences as very dubious theology and even one Bishop to whom I mentioned my unhappiness with this matter did not seem to disagree. I repeat the word ... 'seem.'

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    1. The word "Indulgence" was such an unfortunate choice of the Medieval Church. It was bound to lead to misunderstanding! This is now clear to us in retrospect.
      If they had described their notion as say, "Reparation ideas", or even given it a strict-sounding title like "Repentance Penalties" at least people would have been less likely to have been misled and at worst, deceived. But we need to remember I suppose that words in the English language can change in their nuances of meaning as the centuries pass.

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  7. There is something to be said for indulgences. It's not the concept per se that is problematic. Like many other ideas it's the abuse of the idea, wittingly or otherwise, which is the problem.

    That's what Luther inveighed against.

    A calm assessment of the topic is preferable to knee-jerk reactions.

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  8. Is the theology on indulgences a matter of FAITH?

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    1. When you ask about indulgence being a matter of faith, if you mean by that whether it is necessary for salvation to hold the official view on the subject, the answer is clearly no.

      There is a hierarchy of truths and this topic is fairly close to the bottom.

      It's primarily of interest in case where people haven't the health, time or financial resources to be directly involved in improving life for others who are in need, and in that way, building up the Kingdom of God. They can instead help this effort by prayer and moral and material support of one kind or another, including financial support.

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    2. Yes, there is 'a hierarchy' of truths. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church, like many other churches, has tended to overlook (and even supplant) the greatest truth of all (and the only saving one): that we must love God above all else and our neighbours as if they were our very selves.

      The Catholic Church, historically, has tended to promote loyalty to Rome (especially through unquestioned acceptance of Papal Infallibility) over and above loyalty to Christ.

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    3. Magna Carta, that is simply not true. There is absolutely nothing in the Catholic Church that can distract us (unless we want to be distracted and that can include you too) from our supreme duty of loving God and our neighbors. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the doctrine of papal infallibility gives anyone the slightest excuse whatsoever for neglecting the Great Commands to love God and neighbor.

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    4. I'm afraid it is true. Rome has always linked obedience to God's will with unquestioned acceptance of magisterial teaching. In fact, Rome has defined the exercise of conscience as the application, in any circumstance, of relevant magisterial doctrine.

      Why do you think that priests, for example, are required to make vows of obedience to the pope through the local ordinary?

      Rome considers its word sacrosanct, the manifestation of the divine will. Indeed, it is why Rome sought to root out dissent in former centuries through violent suppression of individual expressions of conscience.

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  9. You are a disgusting mind Buckley. You have to be one of the most imbalanced minds currently, up there with Willie Frazer - 'Head Bin'some might say!

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    1. 10.46 I think you lower yourself and defeat your argument completely comparing Bishop Pat with a horrible man called Willie Frazier. If you disagree with someone or their point of view by descending into nastiness and vulgarity defeats your view and does you no justice at all.

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    2. @10.46 What really gets me on this blog is individuals like yourself who are so opposed to the views on here. If you are so opposed or offended - WHY READ IT? If you don't like it don't bloody read it. Don't waste our time either by having us read such nonsense and drivel.

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  10. 10.08 I'd imagine it's more a question of common sense than faith. Church or anybody else can not control what another believes. As for ghosts I have an open mind. If saints can appear and do alleged miracles why not others to some degree..

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  11. F F sake Vatican get a life ?..never have I heard such tripe.

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  12. Pat, since you no longer share truths and creeds of the Catholic Church why do they cause you such angst? There are so many enriching, though provoling and intellectualky challenging articles you could print on your blog, which would be a source of enrichment, learning and renewal. Today's piece is of little interest to most Catholics. We try as best we can to live the gospel command of love of God and of neighbour, not to be constantly negative, sniping and allowing scurrilous judgments be made against innocent people. The blog could be useful but not in its present mode. Too many untruthf, mischief making people trlolling it.

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    1. I do hold Catholic truths and creeds but not all the manmade things the RC institution holds.

      I thought the discussions in intersex and the nature of Christ discussed this week - and indulgences today - are important and deep topics?

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    2. Sorry pat but you are not even Christian. Some type of pseudo Christian with a dose of whatever your having yourself thrown in for good measure

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    3. ".. whatever you're having yourself.."

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  13. 14.38
    If the people posting are not to your liking...don't read
    Simple

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  14. 15:49: What is a Christian?

    "A person who has received Christian baptism and who follows the teachings of Christ".

    I am baptised.

    I try and follow the teachings of Christ.

    Of course I am a sinner and fail every day.

    But I do try.

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  15. 15:49: What is a Christian?

    "A person who has received Christian baptism and who follows the teachings of Christ".

    I am baptised.

    I try and follow the teachings of Christ.

    Of course I am a sinner and fail every day.

    But I do try.

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    1. If you are trying to be Christian, why don't your words on your blog reflect it? Mostly, you show intolerance, disrespect and lack of charity for others whom you intensely dislike. There is a perversion in your attitude and a perplexing contradiction in your professed faith in Christ and what you write. Pity!

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    2. Look at the top of this blog.

      THE MEMORY OF JESUS IS BOTH SACRED AND SUBVERSIVE.

      I'm on Jesus' subversive team?

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    3. Pat pretends to be understanding and compassionate, but behind it all is a bitter man with questionable sexual tendencies who was kicked out of the Church. That is saying something when the Church gets rid of you.

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    4. Pat, you misunderstand the meaning of subversive! Jesus' memory is SACRED and those who honour his name are called to reflect his values of respect, tolerance, compassion, fairness, justice and truth. Yes, we must name and fight against all abuse and arrogance by Church leadership but not in the crude, disingenuous, judgmental and unfair manner done thru this blog. I would like to think that, in accepting my failings and sins, I wouldn't be so self righteous in swiftly forming negative opinions of others and feeling an absolute right to say what I like! That's called arrogance and self delusion. You do not like being challenged. Subversive to me evokes names like Fr. McVerry, Sr. Stan Kennedy, Sr. Consilio, Cuan Mhuire, St. V. De Paul, Br. Kevin....They don't waste time on negativity; they challenge but more importantly - they live the Gospel in a way that instigates real change, making a difference to people in vulnerable situations. They are "Christ" for others. These individuals and many others hold "sacred" the memory of Christ. What's your legacy????

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    5. If you're on the "subversive" team, what happened to "sacred". A Freudian slip in forgetting this word!!Easy to be subversive sitting at a computer all day long!

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  16. 16 .03
    Mines a g and t
    It is holiday time and also near the weekend.

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    1. It's coming up, 16.49!

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    2. I'd prefer the Italian Red from the Italian restaurant in Navan where Pat enjoyed a feast during the week sorting out the Meath Diocese.....

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  17. Pat in your contributions and articles, why do you always have to belittle, scorn and encourage ridicule of others, as in your photo of Archbishop Martin this morning? I'm baffled to comprehend such nastiness. We would address serious issues on this blog if you learned respect for others. You're not exactly a Mona Lisa yourself, even in your fancy purple frills! What price your security men????

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  18. 17.23 You are like some others on here bitching, moaning and sqwaking about the content. If you don't like what you read DON'T READ IT. It's very simple, so shut the f**k up and give the rest of us who enjoy the blog a break.

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  19. MournemanMichael21 July 2017 at 18:37

    Thanks Cecily for your historical explanation. It is helpful in explaining the origins. But, as you say, the church did little to correct the misunderstandings, perhaps seeing it as another nice 'little earner '.
    MMM

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    1. Thanks for your response MMM.

      Cecily.

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    2. Hi MMM,
      That's a shirking of your responsibility. The church, as you call it, isn't responsible for your education. You are. It's called LLL.

      Your final phrase adds nothing to your argument. It's a cheap shot which like everything that appears cheap initially, is more costly in the long run. In this case it costs you the loss of the semblance of good faith.

      Delete
  20. Sometimes itcan be fun posting here .
    Pat u shld start a friend's group here.
    Some of us might find a mate
    I'm a hetro female !!

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  21. The failure of the seminary system is so often the subject of this blog. It is so ironic, whether you agree with them or not, that you who have been through the seminary system, didn't know the actual doctrine of what an indulgence was, but parroted the misconception that it is time off purgatory. For such a contentious point to be omitted suggests that you too have been failed by the seminary system, Pat!

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  22. Did you ever again from the Armagh Farmer again Pat? The story he tells about a Priest and his Son at world youth day was most disturbing. These world youth days should be stopped. They are a glorified eye candy fest for Clergy. Some priests I'm told give out their contact details galore to young male teens, rarely to females.

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    1. That story was a load of horseshit. Nothing happened because pat has zero proof. Absolutely zilch.

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    2. It happened. It was covered up like a lot more.

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    3. Well what exactly happened?

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    4. Sleep well Pat. Give your brain a good rest. It needs it due the depth of your thinking here.....very demanding!

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  23. Pat all the indulgences in the world won't save you from the hell you have prepared for yourself.

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  24. Pope Pat I tells us that the Church has been wrong about homosexuality, abortion and fornication for 2,000 years and now explains that purgatory is probably false. Padre Pio, Saint John Vianney and numerous other very holy priests and religious have got this one wrong as well. Just keep comforting yourselves with these views, it might work this side of the grave. To neglect the Holy Souls, especially those who were close to you in life is a serious sin and what have we to lose by praying and making sacrifices for them even if you are right? NOTHING. And what do we have to gain if it is true? MUCH. Matthew 5:26 "Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing". DON'T GET THIS ONE WRONG.

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    1. MourneManMichael22 July 2017 at 01:50

      Frankly, my friend @ 01:15, such admonitions cause me to initially sigh, then, in an understanding and contemplation of the cradle catholic induced 'fear of hell fire and damnation' deeply embedded beliefs imposed on as yet naive and uninformed young minds, I am obliged to consider to what extent those open and innocent young minds subsequently free their thinking processes and life choices to understand and acknowledge the limitations of such blinkered handed down orthodoxy imprinted upon their young unquestioning minds.
      MMM

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  25. Hi, MMM,

    That's a shirking of your responsibility. The church, as you call it, isn't responsible for your education. You are. It's called LLL.

    Your final phrase adds nothing to your argument. It's a cheap shot which like everything that appears cheap initially, is more costly in the long run. In this case it costs you the loss of the semblance of good faith.

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    Replies
    1. MournemanMichael22 July 2017 at 22:19

      Can you poster @ 12:38 please explain what you are referring to by relating it to whatever you believe I've said.
      MMM

      Delete
  26. Nice parochial house in Navan... and good to see that they are continuing to spend plenty to keep the inside in tip-top condition.

    From a local builder's site: "This is a bespoke piece of joinery, custom made to the clients wishes."

    See the pictures at : https://www.facebook.com/pg/SeanRothwellConstructionLtd/photos/?tab=album&album_id=816803335092391

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  27. Ever wanted to get free Google+ Circles?
    Did you know you can get these AUTOMATICALLY AND ABSOLUTELY FOR FREE by using Like 4 Like?

    ReplyDelete