Thursday, 17 August 2017

GAY - STRAIGHT versus PROMISCUOUS


Image result for catholic priests and sex


I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE CLARITY ON THE WHOLE QUESTION OF PRIESTS - GAY AND STRAIGHT - AND SEX.

The first thing to say is that the RC Church requires celibacy - and chastity - from all bishops and priests - straight and gay - who have not been given a dispensation like former Anglican priests have.

This means that a bishop or priest should - according to Church teaching and discipline - should not be having sex with ANYONE - either a man or a woman.

So if a "celibate" priest has one or many sexual partners - he is breaking his promises or vows.

Many priests say that celibacy is a bad man made and unjust law and that therefore - in conscience they are not bound to obey that law.

 So my first question today to Blog readers is:

1. IS CELIBACY A BAD UNJUST LAW AND THEREFORE ARE PRIESTS, IN CONSCIENCE, FREE TO DISOBEY IT AND HAVE ONE LOVING SEXUAL PARTNER?


That would be my own personal opinion and I have often talked to priests, inside and outside of Confession, who live their lives in this way.

Of course, other people would call them hypocrites in that they are pretending to be celibate and are not.

Others still would say to them - if you need a sexual partner the most honourable thing to do in to leave the priesthood and stop living a lie. some 250,000 priests have done this since the mid 1960's. 


My second question today to Blog readers is:

2. SHOULD THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ALLOW A GAY PRIEST TO HAVE ONE LOVING SEXUAL PARTNER?

My opinion is that the Church should and that the RC Church has got it all wrong on homosexuality - especially homosexuality in the context of ONE loving stable relationship.

Others agree with the Church that homosexuality is a "disorder" and that a sexually active homosexual priest is unfit for ministry.


My third question for Blog readers today is:

3. IS THERE A MORAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PRIEST - STRAIGHT OR GAY - HAVING ONE LOVING STABLE PARTNER AND A PRIEST WHO IS A "JACK THE LAD" AND WHO MAKES SURE HE GETS AS MUCH SEX ANYWHERE HE CAN?

My opinion is that there is a moral difference in the sense that there is LOVE in a committed relationship with one person and that being a "Jack The Lad" is all about lust, self-pleasure and using people.


This Blog does not highlight the cases of priests in a loving committed relationship - even though I understand that some people think this is wrong too.

This Blog has been dealing with cases like;

a. The likes of Father Kieran Dallat of Down and Connor who made a parishioner pregnant, left her to have a miscarriage alone in her bathroom and then dropped her like a hot potato.




b. The Case of Father Rory Coyle who used Grindr to show his genitals to a young man - a former pupil of his.

c. The case of Father Eamon McCamley of Keady who masturbated on line at 1 in the morning for all, including parishioners to see.

d. The case of the Raphoe priest who "encountered" a young man in a Derry toilet.

e. The case of another Raphoe priest who hangs around public toilets in Coleraine and the North Coast.

f. The case of another Northern priest who cruises the toilets in the same area dressed in leather.

g. The case of a Dublin priest who was being blackmailed by a young lover/rent boy who it is rumored was paid off by the priest's superiors.

h. The cases of Gorgeous, King Puck, Horny Andy etc of Maynooth and the promiscuous "strange goings on" in that place for decades.




i. The case of a Derry priest with a female lover who was just transferred to another parish with her good self in tact. 

j. The case of a Meath priest cruising truck stops in the midlands.

k. The various goings on at World Youth Day and in "The Meadow" on Lourdes Pilgrimages. 

l. The various cases handled by Sean "The Wounded Healer" Brady solved by a move from a Northern Parish to a County Louth Parish.




m. The case of the faulty computer of Pomeroy.

n. The case of the Maynooth seminarian who lay naked and face down on his bed to "facilitate" "visitors". 

o. The unsolved mystery of the Bray alleged rape.

etc, etc, 


Are folks getting the message?

This is not about a good and human priest falling in love with one person.



This is about the "homosexualisation" of the Catholic priesthood in Ireland and internationally involving seminarians, priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals etc.

And it is about that "gay cabal" becoming so big and so influential, and so widespread as to represent a threat to the Church and the priesthood - not to mention morality.

I happen to be a gay man.

But I do not want the Church transformed into a Gay Church, A Straight Church, A Transexual Church, A Bisexual Church. a Male Church, A Female Church, A Clerical Club Church, etc.

I want the Church to be for EVERYONE.

I want the Church to tolerate and love and accept EVERYONE.

I want the priesthood to be the same - representative of humanity and society as a whole.

I want there to be DIVERSITY within UNITY. 

That cannot happen if any particular TAIL is allowed to wag the WHOLE DOG.

Is that not what we have had with the HIERARCHY TAIL wagging THE WHOLE DOG?

And one very large tail - the gay cabal tail - from New York to Rome to Maynooth is a very problematic tail - and has been so for the last 3 or 4 decades. 

It's got to the point now that celibate gay seminarians and heterosexual seminarians are being driven away!



Image result for tail wagging dog




67 comments:

  1. Who is the elusive Fr. X?
    How does he escape attention given the alleged relationship he has with a young D.U.P. member?
    Does he really exist, I wonder?

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    1. Fr X if I remember correctly gave Pat an exclusive interview on this blog some time ago. Pat knows his identity so therefore I assume he exists.

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    2. Pat you are protecting Fr X. Just because you won't publish the comments asking why you are doing this doesn't stop us noting that you are doing so. It's amusing in a way. Were you and he partners in fun once maybe? Maybe you shared the wee Orange man together? These are some of the speculations arising lol

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    3. I also am bemused by the fact that Bishop Buckley tosses accusations against priests with little evidence, mentions names without scruple, yet lets Fr. X brag of his alleged and quite speculation exploits, claiming that he is an active P.P. In Armagh Diocese.
      I also wonder does he exist or has he conned Pat - and not for the first time?
      Even some minimal clarification of this man's condition and present status would be appreciated.
      None of my acquaintances in Louth have the vaguest idea who he might possibly be.

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    4. Father X came to Confession to me and I listened to him and counselled him in that context.

      He did offer to write an anonymous contribution for this Blog which I published.

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    5. Some believe Fr X (if he exists) - gleaned from his own article published in December last year by his friend Pat - may be a priest originally from South Armagh and currently "ministering" somewhere in the greater Louth county area .

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    6. Who said Fr X was from Louth? I can remember when his article appeared on this blog it was a fellow Armagh Priest who accused him from not being far from Dundalk in Louth. For Priests allegedly now in Louth to have no knowledge of him is a bit rich.

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    7. 16:04
      Speculation should of course be spectecular - don't know how this happens

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    8. 18:42 & 16:04
      Spectacular - still don't know how this happens

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  2. Yes, celibacy is 'a bad unjust law', but priests who either promise or avow it do so freely; they cannot, therefore, conscientiously ignore it, unless they are dispensed from the promise or vow.

    No, a gay priest should not be allowed 'one loving sexual partner', since he is bound by his promise or vow of celibacy.

    Yes, of course there is a moral difference between these types of priest: the latter's behaviour is morally more serious. But the behaviour of both is morally wrong, partly since each is bound by his freely chosen promise or vow of celibacy.

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  3. Of course there are degrees of sin but sin is still sin. To take vows and disown them/rationalise the breaking of them is a great sin of itself. Priests who cannot 'walk the walk' and instead decide to live duplicitous and hypocritical lives can do themselves and those they lead great damage. How could it be otherwise, let's be honest.

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    1. I fully agree with you 00.40
      Why try to eat your cake and have it too?

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  4. What a nauseating list.. Ugh!

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    1. 00.43 I agree, what a disgusting filthy litany.

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  5. Who holds the evidence on Eamon McCamley?
    Has it been forwarded to his Bishop?

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    1. His Bishop, Amy Martin, has files bursting with evidence that he is sitting on and doing nothing with re a dozen Armagh priests.

      Brady sat on them before him.

      Armagh is a time bomb.

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    2. Did you present this evidence Pat? We're being told very little in Keady other than parishioners saying that he is innocent and that yoy are just out to destroy goid Priest's like Fr McCamley

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    3. I am led to believe that the evidence is being held by a well known Sunday newspaper. A high court injunction obtained by the Archdiocese of Armagh prevents that newspaper from publishing any of the material. Ex Hack

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  6. What raphoe priest hangs around toliets in Coleraine Pat?

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  7. "N The case of the Maynooth seminarian who lay naked and face down on his bed to "facilitate" "visitors". 

    Is this the Maynooth version of the "Hole in the wall" :-)

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    1. Actually, I don't believe it. Someone's imagination - out to embarrass and wound.

      If the reporter has evidence let him present it (in public or in private to someone).

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  8. +Pat, I do not have a problem with any consenting adult behaviour as long as it is legal. What a person does between the sheets and the altar is none of our business. It may be a matter for their bishop but over the last few weeks you repeat the same names and the same stories. cc

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    1. So a priest .masturbating on line is only his own business and might be a matter for his Bishop?

      Would it be a matter for his parishioners?

      Would it be a matter for a young man watching him or the young man's parents.

      According to you. No.

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  9. Priests are not just consenting adults like all adults, they are distinctly set apart by the rule of celibacy which changes everything. Despite the arguments for or against celibacy no priest should have a partner or partners of either sex. I think it is difficult to justify otherwise given what celibacy means.

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    1. Celibacy is a discipline - and not even an absolute one, at that.

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    2. No priest should have a partner? Not even the married ones?

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  10. Two completely different things.

    A priest struggling with a sex addiction can be quite a humble parson.

    A priest consumed by his infatuation with his beloved can be pretty useless.

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  11. 11:30, you've made an important personal and moral distinction, and an irrefutable point.

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  12. Pat, can I just say that when you address issues such as they double lives led by Catholic clergy I think it is a good thing. Stay on these issues and don't get caught up in other matters that distract from the truth.

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  13. Is Celibacy not a man made rule to stop someone from marriage as opposed to stopping them from having sex? What's the distinction, if any?

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  14. 14:09, the two go hand in hand.

    According to magisterial teaching, the only valid moral forum for sexual intercourse is marriage itself. So if a priest has promised or vowed to remain celibate, it goes without saying that he must, too, abstain from sexual intercourse.

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  15. Two completely different things.

    The future priest confirms that he has received the charism of celibacy and promises to remain unmarried (i.e., not to marry a woman, as we must nowadays clarify). This is simply a rule of the Church which might be changed in the future and to which exceptions are already permitted in certain circumstances.

    As an unmarried Christian, the priest does not "have sex" with anyone. This is not a Church rule. It is an element of God's moral law for humanity. Christians regard any form of sexual activity, other than the chaste embrace of husband and wife, with the most absolute abhorrence.

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    1. Nonsense.
      You may regard it whatever way you like.
      Many, I would think most today, regard it as normal and acceptable.

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  16. Celibacy in principle goes against human nature. What is not acceptable is Bishops creating painful moral and theological piles by sitting on piles of paperwork and doing nothing. As always it is the ordinary people who bear the pain.

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  17. I find this post interesting in that I was on a celibacy retreat in NZ in the Seminary there and one of the presenters said this very point: "The Church currently requires priestly celibacy. Personally I don't agree with it. However it is the law of The Church, much like there are rules in any sport you play. If you don't like the rules of the game, and don't intend to keep them then leave. I may not personally agree with them, but I made a commitment, and I have thanks be to God kept them for almost fifty years." Literally a few months after that I left because to make vows, or promises to live celibacy without the intention of following through is disingenuous and lacks any integrity.

    In response to your questions Pat
    1. I believe that The Church should like the Eastern Church allow for both married clergy, who upon the death of their wife cannot marry again; as well as celibate clergy. There is room for both.

    2. I think when it comes to having a gay partner I would agree with The Church. However I would disagree that homosexual orientation is disordered or any such language. It is an issue of using Thomistic language etc which no longer is universally understood.
    Personally I would say that of all the gay and lesbian people I know not one of them have 'chosen' to be gay. I believe that as psychology has developed, and we discover more and more about the brain greater answers will come in time. I do believe that people often end up attracted to the same sex whether it be through social conditioning, or events which have happened to them (very high rates of sexual abuse as children, and in women high rates of abusive relationships earlier with men) or possibly some genetic predisposition.
    I would highly recommend a book called Gay and Catholic by Eve Tushnet, well worth a read. She is a lesbian who converted to Catholicism, has struggled with her sexuality and now lives celibately and does at times struggle with this.

    3. There is a major difference between someone who is a committed relationship whether it be perfect or not, and someone who is just sleeping around. I'd much prefer, and think it is far more moral for a person who is gay to be living in a loving and committed relationship than to with a different person every night of the week. But the same must also be said of us heterosexuals. The same standard must also be applied there.

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    1. Your mentor omitted another option:
      If you don't like the rules of the game you do all you can do have them changed.
      The All-Ireland finals are going to be moved from September to August. If that can happen, the sky's the limit for church discipline.

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    2. Believe it or not and contrary to public opinion!! - the GAA do not run and rule the Catholic Church.

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  18. Priests take a vow of celibacy
    ASK ONE OF THEM what it means

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  19. I'm surprised, Pat, that your list doesn't include any one from Galway. Like Frankie Lee, who was removed by Rome for his sexual activity on the gay scene. Just look at the comments in response to your blog on him last October Does anyone know what has become of him? is he still living in the parish house in Moyhcullen?
    And what about the other Jack the Lads in Galway who have figured on your blog in the past?

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    1. Disgraceful that you mentioned someone by name. Shame on you.

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    2. Any listing of priests known to have lived "duplicitous and hypocritical lives" should include this man's name - already in the public domain.

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  20. Today's blog raises a number of interesting points.

    1. IS CELIBACY A BAD UNJUST LAW AND THEREFORE ARE PRIESTS, IN CONSCIENCE, FREE TO DISOBEY IT AND HAVE ONE LOVING SEXUAL PARTNER?

    It should not be mandatory. But having made a free decision to embrace chastity and celibacy, then a priest should abide by it. However, I have no problems with a priest who might choose to follow the example of the (Church of England) Bishop of Grantham does for me provide a model, whereby he is in a committed relationship with a same sex partner which according to church norms, is non-sexual.

    2. SHOULD THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ALLOW A GAY PRIEST TO HAVE ONE LOVING SEXUAL PARTNER?

    Yes, and the same goes for the laity too. The arguments made against recognising homosexual relationships have two hurdles: (1) what does scripture and tradition actually teach us about same sex relationships and (2) what exactly constitutes Magisterial teaching. As regards (1), the scriptural arguments advanced by those opposed to homosexual relationships are surprisingly weak. So, therefore, (T)tradition is often appealed to. But there is generally a confusion between Tradition and what Catholics are in the habit of saying. Too often we see people arguing the point from random words from a catechism or an instruction, but they fail to realise that to be authoritative those statements must still be true. So even those conservative theologians like Pope Benedict who argue against same sex unions, do so by appealing to the underlying theology - not random statements. To argue the issue requires engagement with the underlying arguments, not trotting out a misunderstanding of the meaning of intrinsic disorder, or deifying Aquinas.

    3. IS THERE A MORAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PRIEST - STRAIGHT OR GAY - HAVING ONE LOVING STABLE PARTNER AND A PRIEST WHO IS A "JACK THE LAD" AND WHO MAKES SURE HE GETS AS MUCH SEX ANYWHERE HE CAN?

    Absolutely there is. It is not morally equivalent but the question is: how do we know who is a Jack the Lad? While I see a lot of comments promoting the idea that promiscuity is the result of immature sexuality, the reality is that in the culture generally today, promiscuity is fairly ubiquitous. Now, it might well be that the culture is immature. But there is nothing especially unusual about it in society today. But for the Christian, this is not how we should live. But there is a false connection drawn between a Jack the Lad cleric and one who has fallen into sexual sin. Promiscuous behaviour is often a manifestation of unresolved psychological issues. It is entirely inaccurate to assume that because a cleric behaves in a certain way that he is a Jack the Lad cleric. He might well be, but the first option is to work with the cleric to identify the issues and deal with them. If the cleric does not then deal with them, having received help, then he is indeed a Jack the Lad cleric. But a mob mentality of immediately jumping to conclusions about the mentality of a cleric derived only from his seeming behaviour without understanding the issues driving that behaviour, is a dangerous mindset. As is the mindset of a Bishop who continues to let such behaviour continue unchecked.

    4. ETHICS - my final thought is on the ethics of exposing 'Jack the Lad' clerics. Gay rights activists generally consider this type of outing to be a form of violence against gay individuals, and a form of abuse against homsexuals unless it can specifically be shown that the individual acts in a manner contrary to the fundamental interests of gay people. Most priest I know do not act in such a manner. I think that is something worth reflecting on when considering our conduct.

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    1. Don't be so ridiculous. Most priests supply the irish Catholic and Alive! which argue against homosexuality as a grave sin. And they tacitly sign up to the Catechism of the Catholic Church as official. And every parish preist read out letters against same sex marriage in 2015. Thus gay priests should be exposed even if they never condemn homosexuality in the pulpit for what is said in the pulpit or not said is not the point.

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    2. The sheet you refer to is delivered free of charge.

      The religious order of the man who produces it distances itself from its contents.

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    3. Shows how long it is since you were in a Catholic church.
      We don't use pulpits. Since Vatican II (1960s) we use lecterns, ambos.)
      Every priest did not read out letters against same-sex marriage.
      Some are on record as having supported it. I'd gues those who voted yes are in the majority.

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    4. @23:48, using the same line of reasoning every gay Catholic layperson should thus be outed since by remaining within that institution, receiving its sacraments, contributing financially etc etc, they are thereby giving support to its doctrine. Thankfully only a small minority of gay rights activists have such a fundamentalist doctrine as yourself.

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  21. Sean Brady knew well about Fr Xxxx Oxxxxc and Fr Xxxxx Xxxxxx One was moved from his previous parish due to another misunderstanding and was moved to Xxxxx and time away. It involved a married man. Armagh has had one or two of them misunderstandings now Pat. These two are probably going to be one of the biggest scandals in the diocese and Ireland Pat.

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    1. Sounds like a ménage à trois involving a married man and a couple of priestly Mo's.

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  22. I think it was Pat who referred to Armagh as a, "ticking time bomb" and how correct he is. It's Armagh Priests who accuse Fr X of being based in Co Louth and I know this first hand. I also know about the married man situation that 17.51 refers to. Brady did indeed know about these Priests, one was made take time out but the other was simply moved to another Parish. There are those, I know, who are in possession of proof and evidence of the gay sex antics of Armagh Seminarians who are now Priests. It's just a matter of time before that is released to media outlets. I believe it will be one of the biggest scandals to hit Armagh and Ireland - Brady will be found guilty of inaction. Why do people think Rome elbowed Brady out when they did, almost against his will. That's why Brady turns up like a bad odour to everything - it's a fingers up to the Vatican and to the people in general, it's an act of defiance.
    Ex Armagh Seminarian.

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    1. Ryan and Thomas were part of the same gay circle when I was in Maynooth.

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    2. Yes, I know. Remember what I said at 18.19, gay antics of Armagh Seminarians who are now Priests will be revealed in due course. That is why you, Pat Buckley, have been seen in the last number of months in places like Cookstown and Magherafelt. When the crap hits the fan it's not Eamon Martin in the firing line it will be John B Brady or should I say Sean. He ordained these fellas, he moved priests to different parishes that should have been dealt with and those that needed shown the door were simply told to take time out.

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    3. 18.19 I think Brady is afraid of dying a lonely old man and is craving attention the only way he knows how by wearing his pointy hat and flashing his great big Cardinal ring. Sad for some priests who are victims of their own misguided allegiance

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    4. 18:19 Total nonsense your talking. Ex Armagh seminarian, aren't we lucky you choose another life!

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  23. He makes me sick.
    He should have retired into oblivion after his disgrace re child abuse.running to Lourdes every year at my expense
    Meeting nuncio
    Need I go on

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  24. Heard a lovely interview with Bishop Bridget Mary Catherine Meehan on RTE radio today. She was so refreshing and compassionate.
    If bishops were like her the Church would be a wonderful place.

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  25. The case of a Derry priest with a female lover who was just transferred to another parish with her good self in tact.

    ????

    Who is this?Anyone know / shed light on it?

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  26. Magna Carter
    You still have not answered my question Magna. What about meeting up?

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  27. My thoughts and prayers are with the people of Barcelona tonight #prayers

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    1. Yes, Barcelona attack has shocked the city. I heard that there are 13 dead(RIP) and over 100 injured. There has been a systematic pattern of attacking capital or large cities all yest.

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  28. That is shocking about Fr Dallat, and perhaps part of the shock comes from the fact that this allegation involves a member of the opposite sex. The rest reeks of lavender.

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    1. This comment reeks of internalised homophobia.

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    2. @00.03. Not true. Of the fifteen listed examples of alleged multiple scandals involving errant Catholic priests, at least twelve have more than a dash of lavender.

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    3. If a majority of any profession are gay it's likely that any other measurements - for sanctity as much as for scandals - will have a gay majority too.

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    4. "07:29, it's the persistent use of the terms "dash of lavender" and "reek or lavender" that indicates repressed homosexuality. Well adjusted individuals will simply say "at least twelve seem to be gay". Rather than a high camp "dash of lavender".

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    5. And you think the high camp lace brigade don't have a hint of mint about them? I wonder.

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    6. My parish priest,Armagh Diocese,broke up my marriage, married 32yrs,HE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH MY WIFE, .Their is not a week goes by that l think l will take my Life,lm Sorry,Its only a matter time,they would meet in my Home & in a Forest 5 miles away, lt has destroyed my LIFE. SHAME ON THEM,The priest came to my Home,He Apologised to me, & Asked for Forgiveness Well l accepted his Apology & l Forgive him, l told him,l told him hes was never to be in my company again,To accept an Apology, & To Forgive Him,This is how l seen it, GOD would have accepted his Apology & would have forgiven him,NOW had l not it would have been with me for the rest of my Life By doing the right thing, allows you to hold your head high .

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