Wednesday, 20 September 2017

KNOCK BAN ON SSPX

Knock and it Shall NOT be Opened to You

 SSPX Pilgrimage Group Refused Entry to Knock Shrine

Posted by Catholicism Pure & Simple

From: God does not die! For a Truly Catholic Ireland.

Published September 17, 2017


Image result for knock basilica

The Society of Saint Pius X annual pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady at Knock in Co. Mayo was disrupted yesterday, Saturday 16th September, when Shrine officials refused entry to priests and laity.
Members of Knock Shrine Security approached the SSPX priests, informing them that they were not permitted to celebrate Mass or carry out any devotions as a group. They confirmed that these were the orders which they had been instructed to convey.
For the first time in over ten years, therefore, the Society was forced to celebrate Mass outside of the Shrine grounds (heretofore, for a number of years, SSPX priests had been granted permission to celebrate Mass in various chapels on the grounds of the Shrine). And, for the first time in the entire history of the SSPX’s presence in Ireland, the pilgrimage group was not even permitted to recite the Rosary or pray the Stations of the Cross within the Shrine precincts!
As a result, Mass was celebrated in the car-park of an obliging local café, and the Rosary was prayed on the Main Street which runs adjacent to the Shrine. Security was posted at the gates during the rosary procession, ensuring that the group did not enter the Shrine grounds at any time.
Just like there was no place in the inn for Christ in Bethlehem, so there was no place for those faithful to the Tradition of the Church at Knock this past Saturday. The Knock Shrine authorities should be ashamed of themselves! Rector, Fr. Richard Gibbons, had no problem allowing an “ecumenical service” last January in the Saint John’s Rest and Care Centre at the Shrine. Neither did he have any problem with the assistance of “Reverend Canon” Derek Swann of the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian “Reverend” Molly Deatherage and a Muslim representative, Manar Cherbatji, at a 2014 Peace Mass at Knock. He even had his photograph taken with them on the occasion:
Knock Rector, Father Richard Gibbons, centre of the photograph, sandwiched between his Bishop and the “Reverend” Molly after the “Peace” Mass, 2014.

Third from Left: Rev Molly; Father Gibbons and Archbishop Neary

Also in 2014, Father Gibbons was content to conduct a joint ecumenical service in the Knock Shrine Basilica with the Church of Ireland “Bishop” of Tuam, Killala and Achonry, “Dr.” Patrick Cooke in August of that year to celebrate the 190 years of the Royal National Lifeboat Association. On this occasion, as the Irish Catholic reported, Father Gibbons went the extra mile … “Dr.” Cooke led the celebration, while Father Gibbons was his assistant!
Conclusion? Father Gibbons cordially invites Anglicans, Presbyterians and Muslims, who do not accept the Church’s infallible teachings on the Blessed Virgin Mary, to participate in, and even lead services on the site where Our Lady appeared. But, he does not allow the Society of Saint Pius X and those faithful who assist at their Masses to even say the Rosary as a group on the same site, despite their obvious love for the Mother of God.

PAT SAYS:

I was rather shocked to learn that the authorities at KNOCK SHRINE in Co. Mayo refused to allow a very Catholic group to celebrate Mass there and conduct their devotions.

The pilgrimage from SSPX - Society of St Pius X were refused permission to have their Mass and devotions there - even though they are absolutely Catholic and 100% devout.

The PP of Knock would not have refused them entrance without running it past his archbishop Michael Neary of Tuam. Father Gibbons is too careful and too ambitious to fail to do that.

The SSPX were set up byArchbishopp Lebfevre who disagreed with the Second Vatican Council and the translation of the Mass from Latin into the vernacular.

After setting up his own community and consecrating 4 bishops they were all excommunicated.

But in recent times their excommunication was lifted by Pope Benedict.

They are on their way back into full communion.

I cannot understand their rejection by Knock.

If they wanted to use The Oratory in LARNE I would have absolutely no problem.


103 comments:

  1. Patrick Rooke is the bishop (without quotation marks).

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    1. So is Patrick Rooke the real bishop of three dioceses' with the Catholics mere imposters?

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  2. On the face of it. that ban is hard to understand. Is there something about that particular group that we don't know? Had they said or done something controversial that made the Knock authorities feel that it was a "revenge" appearance which was being attempted? Genuine questions from me as, I say, I don't know..

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    1. You do pose an interesting question.

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    2. A fairly recent interview with the evil-queenly Bishop Bernard Fellay is available on Youtube.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0eTadAYK6o

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    3. Alpha-male Tim Sebastian demolishes the old queen.

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    4. Tim Sebastian doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. That is a disgraceful interview because he is more interested in hanging Bishop Fellay than establishing or listening to the truth.

      He makes a completely uninformed statement where he says that the reforms of Vatican II are binding on all Catholics. The Council - as Fellay rightly points out - is not infallible. He completely misunderstands what reverence for the pope means - pointing out an error is not an insult but an act of charity.

      Mr Sebastian's tone is also grossly disrespectful towards Fellay, and yet he lectures Fellay on his respect or lack of respect for the pope!

      The only disgrace in this interview is Sebastian, who has no concern for objectivity but only for pushing his own agenda.

      Finally, if Bishop Fellay was so disrespectful to Pope Francis, undermining his authority, etc. etc., why has Francis - perhaps even more enthusiastically than Benedict XVI - engaged so closely with Fellay to bring about a reconciliation between Rome and the SSPX?

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    5. A tirade such as yours is counter productive and persuades no one.

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    6. How is it a tirade, 16:42? Because it's more than one paragraph long? Because you don't agree with it?

      Thank you, 14:49 - I agree with you. I assure you I wouldn't be a great defender of the SSPX, but the interviewer was out of line and rude in not letting the bishop answer the questions.

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  3. Odd that you seem to have something against Anglicans and Presbyterians. Your tolerance certainly has its limits.

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    1. Nothing in the article or Pat's commentary indicates that he has "something against Anglicans and Presbyterians". The point is that everyone seems to be welcome to Knock - some even by special invitation of Fr. Gibbons - except a group such as the SSPX which, even if you don't agree with the society, is completely Catholic.

      The move by Fr Gibbons also goes completely against Pope Francis' position on the SSPX - contrary to what many would have expected, Pope Francis has put a lot of effort into reconciling Rome and the SSPX. He has given the Society faculties to hear confessions. The priests of the Society regularly celebrate Masses in St. Peter's Basilica and the superior, Bishop Fellay, has celebrated Mass at the basilica in Lourdes. So, Fr Gibbons' position is completely out of line with how the Society is being treated by Rome.

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    2. Anglicans and Presbyterians attend The Oratory all the time.

      If a group of Anglicans or Presbyterians needed a place to worship I would make them welcome.

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    3. 10:36 As I said above Father Gibbons would not have refused them without consulting Archbishop Neary.

      Like you point out they act differently from the pope and Vatican.

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  4. Knock is a con job anyway.

    I posted a few weeks back about finding God in everyday things such as in my Garden. That evening while tending to a ower bed I dug up a small statue of Our Lady. She now sits in another flower bed, such that I see her from my kitchen table.

    I love the comfort that her timing gives me.but I shall not be turning my Garden into a pilgrimage site - even though I do believe She interceeded to comfort me on behalf of her Son.

    The Society of st Plus X may visit me and my Garden.

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    1. You do appear to have a "moving statue.

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    2. What a stupid statement 7.07. When you get your brains back from under the soil you might be able for a more articulate comment and back up your ignorant "con job" statement!

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    3. At 10.45

      You certainly appear to make a more informed and articulate point than Anon 7.07. (Warning sarcasm comes free in my post)

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  5. Is that Fr. Robert Mc Cabe from Meath diocese on the extreme right of the photo? That fella would turn up at the opening of an envelope.......he's everywhere. I wonder does he ever stay in his parish or do any work in Navan?

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  6. The SSPX have celebrated Mass for years in Lourdes and their pilgrimage is one of the biggest at the shrine. This includes during the current pontificate. They also have celebrated Mass in St Peter's basilica.

    The excommunication of the bishops has been lifted. The priests and laity were never excommunicated and Rome always accepted that the bishops and priests were ordained validly and that the Masses were valid.

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  7. From the tone of their remarks, the SSPX sound like a bunch of fascists and wikipedia for the layman would confirm this.

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  8. No problem? But I thought the SSPX was an extreme anti-gay, anti-Semitic, ultra-conservative Catholic group of pulpit pooves.

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  9. After Gaynooth and Alice Hall are closed down, perhaps Pat should turn the blog's gaydar on the International Seminary of Saint Pius X in Écône, Switzerland, to check out the rösti queens and any strange goings-on over there.

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    1. I'm told by some who have been there that there are no strange goings on?

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    2. Isn't this exactly what we would expect them to say? After all, one of the reasons the Roman Catholic Church concealed sexual abuse by priests was that it didn't want the world to know what was really going on.

      In my experience, the more ideologically rigid and the more authoritarian an organisation, the more likely it is to cover up abuse and to deceive to protect those very things. No one could reasobably argue that the SSPX isn't such an organisation...par excellence.

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    3. "Ideologically rigid", "authoritarian" .... sounds a bit like yourself, Magna Carta. Should we be worried?

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    4. @10:31... famous last words.

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    5. @10:47... and exactly why traditionalists get the bum's rush at Maynooth.

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    6. 10:31 People said the same thing about Maynooth and Allen Hall.

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    7. Maynooth was hardly a rigid, authoritarian institution, and look what happened there - Ledwith and friends, protected by the bishops right up to the present day.

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    8. 12:04, perhaps. But those bishops WERE part of such an institution: the Roman Catholic Church.

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    9. But the bishops themselves are hardly bastions of Catholic orthodoxy - not what you would call rigid or authoritarian with regard to upholding or defending Catholicism.

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    10. The INSTITUTIONAL Catholic Church, 13:34.

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    11. Well, yes, MC - after all, the "rigid" or theologically orthodox SSPX, the theologically un-orthodox bishops of this country, and the "governors" of Maynooth, to whom I referred in previous posts, are all part of what you call the "Institutional Catholic Church".

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    12. @ 13:34
      It sounds as if rigidity and authoritarianism are what you desire. You are welcome to them.

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    13. The SSPX is the rump of the instituional Church (and not a fully integrated one at that).

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    14. Wonderful, 16:47, how you can infer my desires regarding rigidity and authoritarianism based on a brief comment which makes a valid point about the un-orthodoxy of most of the Irish bishops. My personal views either way do not alter the fact.

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    15. Useless to try to explain the subtle differences here
      MC doesn't want to understand, merely to offend.

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  10. I am not a follower of Latin Rite Mass but do believe in freedom of valid expression. I believe Knock needs to look at it's policies and the church needs to be more realistic

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    1. Yes, but I do hope you use The English Missal and English Office Book every now and then. Latin liturgy somewhat turned into beautiful English, in my old fuddy dud opinion.

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    2. 14.16 If it's posh English your after the Book of Common Prayer has it. Yes language like this has it's role in liturgy and worship. One could think of Shakespeare from the world of literature.

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    3. Exactly! Live and let live. This fuddy dud is even excited about the new Presbyterian liturgy.

      The EM includes most of the BCP although The Anglican Missal is even better for the quality of its English with some input by Ronnie Knox, but the EM is that favored by old fashioned Anglo- Catholics because it's much more Roman especially in its very last revision. An interesting point is that the EM in its altar style was mainly translated by a distinguished lady scholar. An EM is currently for sale on eBay - not by me or anyone known to me.

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    4. ".. you're after.."

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    5. "..ewer after.."

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    6. "ewer" potty... Keep up...! 3

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    7. 17:50 I'm not being rude or snarky but I've never experienced Presbyterian liturgy as such (ie following a book).

      I've been to lots of Presbyterian services and whilst there's a format (welcome, hymns, prayers, sermon, blessing) I've never seen a formal liturgy as such. I'd love a link as I'm interested too.

      What has been striking is that Presbyterian Communion services are conducted much more reverentially than modern Catholic Masses. Explain that.

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    8. It may be more of an American phenomenon. I read about it on the Pray, Tell site. An article by a distinguished lady minister. She writes that her committee has been influenced by the novus ordo.

      You are probably aware that the Presbyterians publish an interesting journal on liturgical matters.

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    9. I wasn't aware, but I'll search for it. Thank you.

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  11. An open invitation to the SSPX? How extraordinary.

    It would only increase disapproval of the blog and, possibly, even a boycott of Larne, for example, weddings etc. if the Oratory was ever to become associated with the SSPX, especially after the widespread outrage at revelations that one of its bishops, Richard Williamson, had denied the gassing of Jews in Nazi concentration camps.

    The authorities in Knock were right to keep them at arms length.

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    1. I do not agree with much of the SSPX teachings and policies and I totally disagree with Bishop Williamson on the Holocaust.

      My point is that I would not wish to deprive any group of believers of a place to worship God - with the obvious exception of people who hurt and kill in the name of their God.

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    2. Bishop Williamson was expelled from the SSPX in 2012...

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    3. The risk to the Oratory's reputation would be too great.

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    4. Pat, why don't you phone the Adm of Knock shrine and seek clarification instead of second guessing and attributing motives that don't exist? Again, you are attempting to find something to denigrate the Sacred Shrine of Knock and inviting offensive comments. Having "done" Medujorge, Fatima and Lourdes, Knock is now your target. Shame. Knock is loved and respected by thousands who make their pilgrimage each year, offering much spiritual comfort and deepening the faith, prayer and Christian witness of thousands. The Oratory has a long journey of the heart to make.....I suppose Lough Derg is next on the target list!

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    5. Pat, you'd use any excuse to belittle the efforts and genuine goodness of others to make yourself liok a brighter light! It's not working. Just look at the thousands who travel to Knock and who find great inner peace and healing in this Sacred Place. What is Larne offering to the crowds??

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    6. Many are called it few are chosen.

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    7. Nonsense reply to my comment at 11.43. Clutching at straws.....Pat.

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    8. Obviously, Se Do Leim, Pat will be able to reply to your post if he wishes. However, Pat has made his own feelings on Knock clear in the past. You may speculate on his motives for posting this story today, but the fact remains that a group of Catholics - a group of the thousands, as you rightly point out, who visit Knock each year - were denied entry to the shrine, while only a few weeks ago a non-Catholic bishop was invited to preach and share the sanctuary in the basilica with the Archbishop of Tuam during the novena.

      This is the issue - Catholics being denied access to our national Marian shrine. This is unacceptable. I do not agree with Pat on everything - not by a long shot - but I think what happened at the weekend deserves to be highlighted. I'm sure Pat - like you, Se Do Leim - would be able to acknowledge the fact that thousands travel to Knock and find "great inner peace and healing in this Sacred Place". Why, then, were the SSPX pilgrims denied this same opportunity?

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    9. I fully acknowledge that many thousands are helped by Knock.

      And I do have my own devotion to Mary.

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    10. Phone the Adm and adk why this particular group were denied! Just take up the phone. Easy to solve but stop inferring all kinds of wrong motives in the absence of fact and truth.

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  12. Went to an open Sunday at L derg( did the pilgrimage often years ago)
    Objected to the 40 £ , far too much for an oap
    Also the sermon was soooo uninspiring, such a waste.
    Can they not find someone to give an uplifting talk.
    Yes the cup of tea was good, and my friends and I enjoyed a meal in a pub after, watching a football match.
    Very disappointed with l derg.

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    1. What did you expect at Lough Derg 12.12? A four star hitel! You'd have been well informed about conditions, payments etc beforehand. Another silly story.

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    2. Of course I didn't expect a four star hotel, but I expected something decent for my 40£. Like I said, the cup of tea was good, but I expected a sermon that would inspire me personally.

      I just want to know why oap's like myself are being ripped off. I went to see Wind River in the cinema a few days ago- 10£! What a waste. Can they not make decent films anymore? The popcorn was fine alright, but the film was uninspiring and as dull as l derg.

      So 13:16 I take exception to you calling mine another silly story.

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    3. 14.05: You are just another silly story...I think you are just joking. Anyway, you seem the type who complains about everything, Knock to expensive, sermon boring, film awful....Turn on your TV...Go to bingo...Head for the local....

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    4. There you go again, 15:44...ganging up on an oap.

      I don't own a telly, by the way, and the only pub in the village shut down last year. But I have tried bingo, and I found it boring, especially after nearly two hours when not one of my favourite numbers came up. Biggest waste of a fiver. And don't even get me started on the last parish outing - talk about a damp squib.

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    5. 16.26. And if bingo goes so wrong, the pub closed, parish outings a stinker, there's always the warm comfort of staying under the duvet all day - which probably might keep you out of harm's way. And failing that, you could always make a pilgrimage to Pat's Oratory in Larne!

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    6. Sorry, I might be bored - - but not THAT bored..

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    7. I think you may be trying to get your kicks in the wrong places if bingo and parish outings aren't doing it for you. Have you tried Soho or Paris? Admittedly it would be more expensive but if you find them boring the duvet option is the only one left.

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    8. This is all a bit harsh, just because I pointed out at 12:12 that I got very little spiritual nourishment but good tea at Lough Derg despite shelling out 40 £.

      The Pruor Lough Derg must be able to afford plenty of Parisian weekend breaks if he's charging OAPs that much basically for a cup of tea and a tedious sermon.

      For your information I visited Paris in 1973. Overrated.

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    9. Gasping for a cuppa.24 September 2017 at 12:39

      Quick question for 08:41. During your deflating visit to Lough Derg did your happen to notice if the traditionally built Presbyterian lady from Pettigo is still working in the Lough Derg office?

      She used to terrorise the seminarians who worked there in the summer and they called her "thunder thighs" behind her back.

      There was consternation one year when she popped up at the Maynooth carol service, in prime position in a sturdy chair in the sanctuary of the college chapel.

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  13. Also very disappointed when I called into knock for a few hours.
    A nice restaurant or two would help.
    And some innovative craft shops for the tourist.
    We aren't all holy joes that visit these traditional sites

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    1. What about a bowling alley and a couple of slot machines? An ice rink and a roller disco would bring in the young ones.

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    2. Are you referring to Knock in Belfast? Ok, it's a busy junction and a nightmare during termtime with the school runs, but there's the excellent SD Bells coffee shop, the RUC museum across the road, and Stormont and the many bars and restaurants of Ballyhackamore are within walking distance.

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  14. If thousands travel to knock then it is time to make them want to go back.
    Someone needs to make theses landmarks more interesting
    A very boring day was had by all.

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    1. Knock is a place that will only be enjoyed when the inner heart has tge right disposition. Sorry, but it is just a small country village!

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    2. And if Knock was made "less boring", there'd surely be a string of complaints saying that it is too commercialised!

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    3. Let's be creative, peeps. I suggest that an international architectural competition by held. The design brief is the following:

      Old Knock, with the Shrine, old biddies, religious goods shop, magic lanterns, the ambulatory, a Michael Neary wig museum, and model aircraft.

      New Knock: Craft shops, teashops (but not at Lough Derg prices, thank you), an international airport (destinations Fatima, Lourdes, Salamanca, Nevers, Lough Derg, Our Lady's Well, Walsingham). Bowling alley and roller disco for the young ones.

      Magna Carta Knock: 24hr off-licence.

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    4. Back to the drawing board, 10:15. Your otherwise excellent design brief has some serious omissions.

      * No hut for the security guards.

      * You forgot the 'SSPX keep out' signs, to be rendered in Latin and English.

      * Scandalously you also overlooked the needs of Anglican and Presbyterian pilgrims. At at main entrances to the Shrine there must be mounted 'welcome' signs in Book of Common Prayer English and in Ulster-Scots, with a photo of a smiling Fr Gibbons.

      7 out of 10 I'm afraid.

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    5. 24hr off-licence, 10:15?

      On my way! (Where's me coat?)

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    6. Join the queue. Got there before ye.

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  15. 13.19
    Didn't a certain priest create an airport nearby, what's ' small village '
    about that.
    No need to lecture about inner heart....or disposition
    It needs dragged into the 21 st century, it could be a lovely relaxing peaceful place to spend a few hours.
    As it is now it is not.
    Try upgrading it and see ....stop all the negatives... visit other interesting spots and compare
    Even Yeats country outshines it.

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    1. @14.16

      Ah...but!
      When you "drag the place into the 21st century" as you put it, an unfortunate consequence of that will often be that sadly it is no longer "a lovely relaxing peaceful place"

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    2. 14.16: You obviously haven't noticed the remarkable changes in Knock over the past 10 years. It will eventually make other necesssry changes but only when feasible. I always find it to be a spiritually nourishing place. Yes, there always Lough Derg!!

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  16. 13 .16
    You missed the gist of my post.
    Apart from the ridiculous 40 quid....the spiritual director was totally boring.
    Nothing silly about giving an opinion.
    Do you have one ???



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    1. Yes,I have an opinion. Knock is a very lovely place. You get something out of a place when you are less cynical. I'm an eldrly person too and visit Knock once a month. I give my donations anonymously. Just love it. Thank God.

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    2. Was it Barry's Gold, Nambarrie, Punjana, PG Tips, Crazy Prices Yellow Label or the dreaded Tetley poured out at Lough Derg at 40 £ a pop? Dull sermons optional.

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    3. May I gently suggest to the oap who's been banging on for two days about Lough Derg and its woeful sermons and premium priced tea that we've kinda got the message?

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  17. Pat, why has the writer of this article put "Reverend" in this style when referring to the Anglican and Presbyterian clergy mentioned? In 2017 is it still the teaching of the Roman church that the protestant churches are not real in their minds?

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    1. As far as I know the RC Church does not regard Anglican and other Protestant as having "valid orders".

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    2. That's true. If Anglican clergy convert to Roman Catholicism and wish to minister there as priests, they have to be ordained as such after the appropriate study.

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    3. Magna @ 18.20. You're absolutely correct. And rightly so - only proper that Anglican ministers should totally and fully understand the Catholic Church's teachings truths. Makes sense to me.

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    4. Validity as a concept is a means of control - not a biblical one.

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  18. I studied with a church of Ireland clergyman( we were not studying anything religious)he told me that he was a priest

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    1. You should ask him to say Mass, seeing as how he's a priest. I can imagine the reaction.

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    2. 19.50....What's the purpose of this inane comment?. I don't understand.....

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  19. I am glad they got the bum's rush at Knock.

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  20. So a smarmy RTE presenter during the Holy Mass is invited to come up to the Ambo and present a secular homily yet a group of traditional Catholics aren't even allowed to enter shrine grounds to recite a Rosary??!! What the hell is going on with Fr Richard gulping gibbons and his good for nothing clown of a Bishop???

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  21. My question earlier wasn't answered! Can anyone tell me whether the priest on the extreme right in the photo from Knock is Fr. Robert Mc Cabe from Navan? He's everywhere......does he ever do anything in his own parish?

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    1. I don't think that's Bullfrog, unless he's put on weight, though I can see the resemblance.

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    2. It is Fr McCabe, he who had to pack his bags very quickly when he left his last job as a chaplain in the Free State army. He definitely had a meeting without coffee.

      Meath priests can go hither and thither as they get 45 cents a mile in travelling expenses.

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    3. Clicking on cars and roads to prove I'm not a robot is putting years on me24 September 2017 at 13:34

      Wasn't a male Corps pilot also cashiered the very same day, after a coffee free meeting? I'm sure it was a coincidence.

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  22. What's inane about my referring to what a church of Ireland minister told me about him being a priest.
    I understood from his comment that all church of Ireland ministers were priests.
    He did not say he was a Rc priest.

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  23. Don't know what's going on here.
    I made some comments today about l derg and knock
    Then another poster continues posting as if he/ she was me
    14. O5 saying, '' like I said I enjoyed the cup of tea''.
    And talking about going to the cinema etc.
    Think we have some make up story tellers on here having the craic

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  24. Bishop Pat, what's your email address. I'd like to suggest a blog topic to you. Thanks.

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