Friday, 1 September 2017

ONLY 6 MEN ENTER MAYNOOTH!

Record low for new seminarians in Maynooth

FROM: THE IRISH CATHOLIC

St Patrick's College, Maynooth.

There will be just six first year seminarians at the national seminary when classes resume later this month, according to figures obtained by The Irish Catholic. It is thought to be the lowest number on record in Maynooth’s 222 year history.
While returns from 25 of the country’s 26 dioceses show that 15 men have begun studying for Irish dioceses this year, many of them will participate in a so-called propaedeutic or preparatory year in anticipation of starting in the seminary in 2018.
The fall-off in Maynooth numbers is also due – in part – to the presence of a number of mature students this year who will be formed at the Pontifical Beda College in Rome which specialises in priestly training for older candidates.
In all, 15 of Ireland’s 26 dioceses have no new students either entering seminary or participating in the preparatory year. A spokesperson for the Archdiocese of Dublin told The Irish Catholic that it expected to have new seminarians but was unable to confirm how many until next week.
Killaloe diocese will send two new seminarians to Maynooth, while Tuam, Elphin, Kilmore and Cork & Ross diocese will send one student each.
Survey
A survey carried out by The Irish Catholic this week reveals an increasing trend to ask candidates for formation to undertake the propaedeutic year first. The year is usually completed in Spain, however, two students of the Derry diocese will complete their preparatory year in the diocese.
In all, five students will participate in the propaedeutic year, one will attend the Pontifical Irish College in Rome, two will attend the Beda and one Down & Connor student will begin his formation at St Malachy’s College in Belfast.

New seminarians in 2017
Achonry 0
Ardagh & Clonmacnoise 0
Armagh 0
Cashel and Emly 0
Clogher 0
Clonfert 0
Cloyne 0
Cork & Ross 1 (Maynooth)
Derry 2*
Down & Connor 2 (1* and 1 to St Malachy’s) 
Dromore 0 
Dublin Number unavailable
Elphin 1 (Maynooth)
Ferns 0
Galway 0
Kerry 1*
Kildare & Leighlin 1*
Killala 0
Killaloe 2 (Maynooth)
Kilmore 1 (Maynooth)
Limerick 0
Meath 1 (Pontifical Beda College, Rome)
Ossory 0
Raphoe 0
Tuam 3 (Maynooth, Pontifical Irish College, and Pontifical Beda College, Rome) 
Waterford & Lismore 0

PAT SAYS:
Maynooth has received the lowest ever number of entrants in its 222-year history!

Only 6 new seminarians entered Maynooth last Sunday to begin their first year's training.

15 of 26 Irish Catholic dioceses had no one at all to send this year to Maynooth.

Obviously, there are many reasons for this fall away - but one has to say that it is directly related to the MAYNOOTH GAY SCANDAL that has been world news now for quite a while.
Why would any young man want to enter a place where he could so easily be targetted by others for gay sex?
Why would Catholic parents, grandparents, and families want something like that for their beloved family member?
These young men and their families have witnessed these happenings and have witnessed the Irish Catholic Bishops doing NOTHING to really address the situation.

Furthermore, they have been exposed to the Gorgeous, King Puck, Chris Derwin, Eamon McCamley and Rory Coyle cases.

And like the rest of us, they are waiting to see Diarmuid Martin (Dublin) and Ray Browne (Kerry)  ordain Gorgeous and King Puck in November.
The inaction of the Irish Bishops has made Maynooth - and indeed the priesthood - a laughing stock and a scandal.

Any young man entering the Catholic priesthood is swimming against the prevailing cultural and social tides.
Such a young man would have to have a strong faith and a lot of integrity in any event.
But then his bishop asks him to enter a seminary with a reputation for promiscuous sex and an institution where those who want to be celibate - and those who might be heterosexual - are sexually bullied and harassed and eventually given the heave ho by people with dangerous agendas.  

Sending aspiring priests to a place like Maynooth is akin to sending aspiring police officers to an institution run by the Mafia.

SIX went in last Sunday. How many of those SIX will be there by June? How many of the SIX will be ordained in 6/7 years time?

And what indignities and ordeals will those SIX have to endure in FANNY MULLANEY LAND?

One shudders to think!

91 comments:

  1. Couldn't care less how many students enter Maynooth.

    The pathetically priest-dependent will swoon with dismay. But the wise will shrug their shoulders with knowing indifference.

    THE WORLD DOES NOT NEED ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS TO MEET CHRIST. They are superfluous to relationship with God, not a necessary conduit.

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  2. Thank you, Pat. The new seminarians certainly need our prayers and good wishes at the beginning of their journey to Ordination. I am sure there will be many challenges along the way but by God's grace, many wonderful things too. I wish them well. As you say, to go ahead with their admission applications amidst the difficulties of negative publicity may indicate that these are candidates of exceptional strength and determination. I hope that is the case.

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  3. 'Why would any young man want to enter...'

    Maybe for free board and lodgings plus the prospect of plenty gay sex. It does have its attractions as well.

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    1. And a free university degree.

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    2. It certainly wasn't free for me. I was a seminarian from N Ireland in Maynooth in the 1980s. I was a BA undergraduate and the NI authorities paid my tuition fees. In those days all UK undergraduates received additionally a non means tested maintenance grant, of around £3,000 in 1986. I had to go to the fees and accounts office in Maynooth each term to sign this over to the college in full so not a penny came to me. What's more, every year the bursar asked for a personal contribution on top of the grant, of over £1,200 even though I had already handed over all my student grant and my parents where unemployed. I never got a penny from the diocese. In those days in Maynooth the rooms were bare, just a bed, desk, chair, wardrobe, no carpet or curtains, not even a lampshade. All of the Pugin buildings lacked hot water in the rooms, and some of the residential buildings (Rhetoric, Humanity House) didn't even have showers. The food was awful too. We were young fit volunteers, aspiring to a simple life in imitation of one who had nowhere to lie his head so I'm not complaining, just saying it was not a free degree.

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    3. Hi Brian, your comment was interesting and what i find sickening is that furthermore back in them days of the 80's while the Church was making a mint (everybody went to Church back then..) instead of providing proper facilities for Seminarians like yourselves and giving you a means of living in reasonable comfort (instead of relying on begging on family handouts etc) the Church decided to pay out an absolute bloody sinful fortune on destroying beautiful altars, railings, statues etc etc and giving millions to so called designers and artists to replace those beautiful adornments with architecture that was cheap, tacky, ambiguous,abstract, boring and absolute bullshit..if i had any power i would round up all those priests who done this..all those bishops who allowed this..give them a fair trial and then hang them all by the neck.

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  4. You are unjust and unfair to the Irish Bishops in accusing them of inaction over Maynooth. They have never been inactive over Maynooth - they have defended it tooth and nail down the years - from the time of Fr. McGinnity - and preserved it from any taint of heterosexuality or from any potential purges of gay cabals or threats from young men deemed to be 'fundamentalist'. They have always prided themselves on attracting - from time to time - candidates from the better or more respectable echelons of society and such was their pride when the medical General Practitioner from Galway was convinced to give up his GP job to enter as a 'late vocation' for the Derry diocese - Dr. Felim Donnelly. Look at the calibre of candidate we can attract!

    How great was the shock and horror after his first few months in Maynooth when he was convinced to make an official complaint to the Authorities - to a horrified Msgr Farrell - about a 'gay ethos' being promoted by Maynooth and involving some views and behaviours on the part of a dreary pillar professor of Maynooth going back decades. The shock to Msgr Farrell, to Fr. Hillery, to Fr. Enda Cunningham and to Hugh Connolly was not in the behaviours or attitudes alleged, but that a prominent seminarian would make an official written complaint about these matters. Inaction? Never! Dr. Donnelly was to be gotten rid of pronto and he was, even though the seminary in those years was tied up fully dealing with the Armagh and Donegal seminarians who wanted to kneel at the Consecration of the Mass and who weren't allowed to do so in St. Mary's Oratory as no kneelers were provided in the oratory, only wooden chairs. The scandal of the Kneelers hit the press around Ireland and knee deep in the fight to protect Maynooth was a Junior Dean of Discipline, Fr. Enda Cunningham, shortly afterward to be Senior Dean when Hillery shuffled away. Enda was the Scourge of Maynooth. Some time after the Kneelers Protests and media coverage of same, Enda was REMOVED from Maynooth, but not before Dr. Felim Donnelly was finally kicked out and not supported by that lamb of God in Derry, Hegarty the Refugee from Raphoe's many scandals, who some years earlier had suggested to Donnelly that he should become a priest! Inaction? Never!

    Maynooth watchers thought that a new cleansing of Maynooth had begun with the departure of Msgr Farrell, with the departure of Fr. Hillery (oh! such a boon to Maynooth! a nephew of a former President of Ireland!) and especially with the departure of Enda the Scourge Cunningham.

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    1. Not to mention the back-door exit of Donal O'Neill 4 years before his contract of employment was up.

      Enda was tough, but personally I found him good.

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  5. Wise up! Cleansing? With Hugh Connolly at the reins? With dreary old professors still holding forth? But what's this? Enter Diarmuid Martin - Thinker and Ruminator and Commentator on Irish religious matters, marooned in a backwater filled with Catholics lacking theology and the varnish of Mediterranean sauces and the intellectual perfume of French new lay movements - Diarmuid feels the breezes of distaste for strange goings on in Maynooth which he has known about for years but which are now getting into the press and media generally - inaction? Never! He removed all of 2 seminarians from the fleshpots of Maynooth and sends them off to the richer fleshpots of Roma in protest, but - what's this????

    To provide a clean sweep of Maynooth and to cleanse it of quarrelsome personalities and bullying entities he appoints as Vocations Director of the Dublin Archdiocese that veteran Gladiator of Maynooth - that very originator of quarrels and rows and shouting matches - the very same Fr. Enda Cunningham as the new Vocations' Director for Dublin! Was there ever a more retrograde, retrospective defence of Maynooth throughout the period of Kneeler Bans and dismissals of heterosexual candidates and promotion of openly and active gay candidates than the resurrection of the fortunes of Fr. Enda Cunningham! Was there ever a bigger middle finger raised by Diarmuid Martin toward those who objected to strange goings on in Maynooth than the resurrection of the fortunes of EC the Scourge! No, Pat of Larne, there was not inaction by Diarmuid and/or by Eamon - there is forever action to protect and preserve the status quo and to forever damage those who break ranks and speak out about 'strange goings on'.

    Goodbye Dr. Donnelly and so many good men!

    But what a Providential response to the many years of backstabbings and knifings by Maynooth of very good candidates than the diminution of its very life blood - almost ZERO seminarians and a reputation in tatters around the Catholic world!

    You have to learn one absolutely vital aspect of Diarmuid Martin's character - shared absolutely by many Irish Bishops including recently ordained ones - Never Ever Push them - never seek to pressurise them on any matter good or bad - your letters will go unanswered, your face to face meetings will bear no fruit, the clerical victims of your unfounded complaints will be supported to the last ditch - no, Don't Dare Push! There will be no inaction - there will be absolute defence and absolute determination to go ahead with whatever was planned regardless of any complaints or letters or meetings. Above all, anathema are those who put anything in writing!

    As the new bishop of Raphoe would hold, never ever give into pressure such as the demands of press, media or errant catholics for the resignation of Cardinal Sean Brady - no, the Church must Stand Its Ground! Alan ran a To the Last Ditch campaign to Defend and Promote Sean Brady and got himself episcofied!

    Don't you get it, Pat? The Irish Bishops will just not be pushed either by media, by renegade catholics or by puny blogs. It will go down the tubes of uncharity and rank injustice at least fighting its strange goings on corners - and feels absolutely that this is its proper vocation.

    Screw any piddling seminarians who think an historical ethos of an edifice such as Maynooth and its heritage might be changed!

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  6. It's sad only 6 went in. That does not mean 6 will go the distance though I wish them well. It would seem that it's time for the old dinosaur to quietly to sleep. As an add on I believe it an asset that students train in the environment they will be called to serve in. At least in the pre ordination phase at least. Would the reality of this put them off. I have no idea.

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    1. Prob 1 will get ordained. Two might be possible at a stretch.

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  7. It's ludicrous that huge barracks of a place is kept open despite such low numbers. How much must it cost and what is the staff to student ratio. The bishops won't close it because millions has been spent on the buildings, the episcopal conference offices are there, there is money from rent paid by Maynooth University, it's an agreeable b&b for the bishops and none want to close it on their watch.

    Even more ludicrously, the Irish college Rome and St Malachy's Belfast just got one new student each. Why keep three tiny seminaries open, with all the priests staffing them who could be used in parishes instead.

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    1. 9.16 The Irish College is a dressed up boarding house with the add on Irish Wedding Business on the side. Check out Irish College on line and Villa Irlanda Rome

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    2. Quite right Sean. The wedding business has been a lucrative sideline for years. There are very few seminarians for Irish dioceses in the Irish College; most of the students are from other countries for service overseas.

      Maynooth has a few sidelines of its own. It charges rent to Trocaire which occupies most of Long Corridor. Most of the rest of the campus is rented to Maynooth University. Most notoriously Maynooth rents out bedrooms on a b&b basis, all year round. This includes to hen parties, so it's a common sight to see drunken half naked hens on the cloisters at night. And no questions are asked if you want to stay in one of the many double rooms. You could be unmarried or a same sex couple. They don't care as long as you can pay. This includes rooms in the heart of the seminary.

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    3. It's a scandal that the bishops make their own development agency, Trocaire, pay rent to occupy former seminary bedrooms, that will never be used again for that purpose. I can understand Trocaire being charged for utilies, but rent? Do people realise that a chunk of their donations to Trocaire is used to subsidise Maynooth?

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    4. It's described as the national seminary, so maybe it is fully funded by ROI taxpayers.

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    5. Being founded by an Act of Parliment there is a very good chance of tax money going Maynooth's way due to a historical catch.

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    6. No, not a penny is paid to the National Seminary.

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    7. They don't pay a washer. They have nice suites all around the college. Google the Dublin Room Maynooth. That's where Diarmuid Martin rests his head. You can stay there too as as a paying guest. Likewise with the Tuam and Cashel suites. But the Armagh suite is the best appointed. It's out of bounds to plebs and cannot be booked. and is next door to the ample apartment of the president of Maynooth

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    8. No, the seminary is funded by student fees, rents, the farm attached, the annual collection in churches, commercial activities. There is no direct State aid.

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  8. It would be interesting go see if young men with vocations are bypassing seminary and going for orders instead.

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    1. Most of them will take same-sex marriage vows instead.

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  9. My life has never been and will never be the same again after my time spent in Maynooth. I agree with everything said by 07:38, who has chosen to convey the inane inaction of the bishops regarding Maynooth in an ironical manner.

    Irony aside,though, Maynooth has forever altered my perception of the Church and priests, and has darkened and dimmed my faith.

    My faith was exuberant and sanguine before entering Maynooth. In the years since my departure I have struggled with belief even in the existence of God; my prayer life and belief in the Blessed Sacrament was all but destroyed from the constant chipping-away by so-called experts in Liturgy, Ecclesiology and Church history who seemed to know with certainty that prayer was unimportant and that Eucharistic Adoration a waste of time.

    On top of the this, a seminarian who actually believed that the Catholic Church was the one founded by Christ, had to deal with the constant sneering, jeering of the many priests (the majority in Maynooth during my time), who were so enlightened and educated that they, and not Rome, knew otherwise.

    My experience of bishops is as stated by 07:38 - they will not be pressured or told what to do by anyone. The old saying each bishop thinks he is the pope in his own diocese is a little understated. It appears that each bishop acts as a sole dictator in his own diocese who will not listen to or read genuine complaints and who suffers from terminal ostrich mentality.

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    1. am very sorry to hear how Maynooth has affected your faith :-(

      You can imagine what I have come through. However I have kept my faith and prayer intact.

      If you ever want to communicate - 07488 374364 (or I will call you) - bishopbuckley1@outlook.com

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    2. 10.36 Sadly I can understand where you are coming from and say the issue is with the management committee and not with Jesus. Perhaps Pat can offer a few suggestions for your consideration

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    3. I too can relate to 10.36.

      But I ended up concluding that the Catholic Church and It's bishops cannot speak for the God I know because they don't know Him.

      I posted here a few days ago about how I find God in others and in my Garden. The following day I found a small statue of Our Lady hurried in the Garden.

      God listens and watches. Just be open to him and he will come to you. I have found him in +Pat too.

      Peace be with you my fellow ex-seminarian

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    4. To poster @10.36.
      Many things in your post saddened me. I am - or hope I am - - a conscientious lay Catholic and wish you well in whatever you now do. Never, ever give up on prayer!
      It has been such a valuable and consoling part of my life and still is. I have had some wonderful answers to prayer in many trials at home and in my job and where there was sickness. Sometimes the answer took great faith and great persistence and came in a unexpected way that surprised me but I always received great peace of mind. Other times, I came to realise the truth of the old saying that the Lord "draws straight and crooked lines!" and I can look back and see His guiding hand in my life even when I was tugging at the rope and determined to go in an ill-advised direction.
      Your relationship with God is uniquely yours and not even a bad Maynooth experience should ever take that away from you. Don't let it! (Talk to Him today--He already knows all about your struggles but wants to listen to you anyway.)

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  10. Here we go again Pat at 10.45. Why does everything revolve around you? You brought much pain and discomfort to yourself because of your confrontational nature, immaturity and your arrogant self righteousness, stretching back to your Clonliffe days.
    So, please, you are not a martyr.That aside, those of us who have gone through a seminary formation have indeed been damaged in many ways because of ineffectual, spiritual role models and inadequate human formation. Despite lack of both many priests are genuinely sound and good. Updating on themes of prayer, spirituality, psychology, goid spuritual direction, retreats, seminars - are all ways that I and many colleagues endeavour to work within our broken, sinful, vulnerable humanity. The snide, condescending, hateful and unacceptable contemptible remarks of the imbalanced Magna deserve the bin. He brings nothing nourishing to the table.

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    1. Er, 'imbalanced Magna'? That should be 'unbalanced Magna'.

      If you're going to insult me, old boy, do try to be literate about it.

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  11. Perhaps you could give him a few Tips Sean about staying within the Priesthood and celibacy.

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    1. I think that's a bit unfair. Sean made the decision that the RC priesthood and celibacy was not for him.

      He could have stayed in and become a Jack the Lad like others do.

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    2. Life's unfair Pat, just like you keep going on about how the Church has been unfair to you.

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    3. I agree that life can be unfair.

      The Clerical Club was unfair to me.

      I do not spend my time on that. I have a very active pastoral ministry - which is my primary concern.

      However I do want to see the Church reformed.

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    4. 12.38 Pat. You belonged to the clerical club and enjoyed all the perks - meals, freebies and hand outs...financial benefits, free house, etc - please be honest at least.....don't be playing mr. perfect all the time. There are jack the lads in every profession but most priests, despite their difficulties with the church, maintain their integrity and provide a great pastoral service, without feeling the need to publicise their christian witness. Those whom they serve see it.

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    5. I never really "belonged" to the clerical club - except in the loose sense.

      As a curate in Wales I had my keep and £5 pocket money in 1976.

      In St Peter's in Belfast I had my keep and £70 a month - 1976 - 1983

      For the past 31 years I have been self employed and have received no money from the Church.

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    6. Pat at 14.43. I belong "loosely" to the clerical state also! But, while I am dissatisfied with much of the crisis within the Church in Ireland, I am grateful too for the opportunities given to me to make a meaningful contribution to my parish community. I am grateful for the many blessings from the parishioners. I try as best I can to make a difference by the service I give, imperfect as it is at times. Despite the challenges, perpetually moaning, condemning and criticising can be energy wasting in a negative and destructive way. I try to effect life giving change and renewal by working collaboratively with parishioners in the vineyard entrusted to me. Offering only negative stereotyping about priests and priesthood as is done on this blog, led by Pat and his faithful sheep, is very disheartening for those of us who are genuinely trying to be what we are called to be as Christ's disciples.

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    7. I acknowledge that there are good men like you trying to make a difference - and I'm sorry if you don't get sufficient credit for what you do.

      I am happy to include comments like yours to remind people that you are there.

      I would also be happy to publish good news stories submitted by you and yours.

      But a lot of the good is being overshadowed by bad leadership :-(

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    8. Most priests I know get on with their work despite many changes and enormous challenges. Most priests try as best they can to focus on their present appointment and endeavour to make the best of opportunities given to them. While some priests have greatly discredited the vocation of priesthood, the majority struggle to do their utmost best. There are people on this blog who care little about priests, Church and, dare I say, their own community, but who bleat on ad nauseam with a hate driven agenda against the Church and priesthood, led by the grand master Magna. Thankfully, there are people who are kind and decent who support, pray for and appreciate their local Church and Priests. Thank God there are vibrant, welcoming and life giving parishes all around the country.

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    9. Your flights of fancy here, 19:21, deserve to become legendary.

      If (IF) there are such parishes as you wildly imagine, it is despite priests, not because of them.

      Roman Catholic priests are damaging the Church; their training guarantees this, because it demands loyalty to the institutional Church, not to Christ.

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  12. 12.10
    Why don't you shut the f up .
    Most posting here appreciate Sean posting, in fact we are honoured to get posts from someone who is still in faith with God.
    One does not need to be an Rc to love and know god
    From someone who still practices my Rc faith, mostly because I was born into it.

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  13. Those videos on youtube re Maynooth are bang on right now.

    The bishops mirror Hitler in his bunker during the final days of WW2, moving illusory divisions and tank regiments around his battle table as the russians, yanks and brits closed in around him, he could not face the prospect of inevitable humiliating defeat.

    An ironic definition of madness: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the warcry of the Irish bishops in their impotent crusade to stem the current vocations crisis.

    If there is any or a even 1 genuine seminarian among the new 6, they are brave men indeed. I wish them well and lots of luck for they will need it. They are now entering a place where a good man's reputation is destroyed by a few vicious wags of the tongue without a minutes thought and then the culprit could be seen moments later receiving or even distributing communion with ostensibly seraphic fervour.

    A den of iniquity indeed st pats has become.

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  14. Pat I thought you were censoring posts here
    Sean does not need comments like the above posted.

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    1. I think people are entitled to challenge Sean and his decisions - in a decent way.

      But you will see that I defended him for his decisions.

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    2. 13.07 Censorship? Are you a resident of North Korea - sounds like it.

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  15. I had a wedding last weekend and at the reception I met a Maynooth seminarian who had left in recent times.

    I want to repeat what he said to me - and I apologise for the crudeness.

    He said:

    "I went into Maynooth to save my soul. I left Maynooth to save my hole".

    How sad!

    Dublin PP.

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    1. That seminarian must have been an utter wimp.

      The Church needs men, not wimps.

      Glad he had the sense to leave the seminary.

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  16. Pat - I know for fact that men who feel they have a vocation to the priesthood have approached some of the dioceses you have listed which have no seminarians this year (some which have no seminarians at all). A number of these men were told outright that they did not fit into the model of priesthood of those on the "committee" - in other words they are faithful Catholics who love God, who pray, and who feel called to serve God's people as priests. The very men who should at least be given a chance are not even being allowed to set foot in a seminary.

    I think we have to realise that this is not just a Maynooth problem. Without a doubt, Maynooth IS a problem, but there are men who are willing to put themselves forward in spite of Maynooth. I am convinced that many of our bishops do not want priests, and that many priests on these "vocations committees" have no qualms whatsoever about turning men with genuine vocations away.

    It is sad to think of all of those men and women across the country praying day in day out for vocations - the Lord sends them, but the bishops turn them away! I would not like to be one of these bishops on judgement day, being asked by the Lord: "Your people prayed for priests. I sent men to you to be priests - what did you do with those I sent to you?" Truly some of these bishops have no fear of God.

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    1. There is nothing to stop any of these men becoming priests outside the Roman system?

      They can prepare independently for priesthood and be ordained by a non Roman bishop.

      They can also be married and hold down a job.

      They can minister in some area they feel called to - addiction, homelessness, justice, the LGBT community etc.

      Like those in the early Church they can have the Eucharist in their homes or in community centres.

      If you like they can be non clerical priests?

      It may be the future?

      Like the South American Basic Christian Communities model?

      What do you think?

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    2. Of course they could go elsewhere, Pat. But I don't agree with you about going outside the "Roman system", because I don't think it acknowledges the root of the problem. I know that you have your difficulties with the Roman Catholic Church, but the behaviour of these bishops is not the "Roman system" - it is pure dysfunction among the Irish bishops that is destroying vocations in Ireland. There are plenty of examples of dioceses in the US and even in the UK where there are plenty of vocations because the bishop actually believes in the priesthood! It's not the "Roman system" that's causing our Irish bishops to turn good men away - I'd say it's the opposite actually, it's that they're not acting as bishops!

      Is it any wonder that so many men are going to dioceses and religious orders abroad because they are encountering such a lack of faith among their own bishops here?

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    3. What would they live on - thin air! If you are a Catholic why would you want to be ordained outside the 'Roman system'? Cop on.

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    4. You did not read my comment.

      They would have a job in Civvy Street!

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    5. CoE has a system of Ordained Local Ministers. Priests who have a civvy street job and serve in local parish/denary

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    6. Don't they also have Non-Stipendary Ministers (maybe that's the old name for what you've mentioned, Sean?) Are they unpaid clergy who serve alongside their other job? There was the brief worker priest experiment in France particularly early in the 20th century. Maybe it needs resurgence?

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  17. Can I ask
    Are these 6 just left school or do they have degrees from a university?

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    1. Highly unlikely, most Irish parents wouldn't allow it nowadays.

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  18. I echo the sentiments of 13:16: many bishops do not care about vocations, or are surrounded by gangsters who are filling their ears with lies. They will of course wax lyrical about vocations and faith publicly, but their actions regarding Maynooth and other similar stories I have heard as @ 13:16 diametrically oppose such sophistry.

    The major problem with Maynooth for years now has been the ordination of many unfit men and the expulsion of true vocations. This has all been overseen and approved by the bishops.

    If the bishops had a real desire to encourage real vocations, Maynooth would have been reformed many years ago.

    If they had taken such action, they would have also saved a fortune on posters and inappropriate marketing campaigns.

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  19. The bishops are so much in denial (and maybe in thrall too much to the money that the Maynooth cash cow generates) that even if there were zero seminarians this year, they still would persevere with dogged determination to defend that pathetic parody of a seminary.

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    1. If you study all charities in our country, you'll quickly discover that Trocaire is not the only charity paying rents and that a large percentage of donations given to charities is spent on administration, salaries, advertising etc...necessary but disheartening to donors. Maynooth like all institutions and businesses is within its rights to charge rent. So,let's not single out Maynooth because of its ecclesiastical connections!

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    2. Given Trocaire's mission is it not strange that Maynooths treat them like a rent for profit landlord?

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    3. Yes, exactly Pat. It's their own agency, the rooms in Long Corridor were empty, apparently permanently and the bishops told Trocaire to move from their old base in Co Dublin to Maynooth.

      Who knows who got the proceeds from that sale? Anyway the bishops could have said 'let's use the proceeds from your move to Maynooth to pay for relocation, staff moves, new furniture etc. You'll have to pay your own gas bills etc, but as you are moving into surplus space, at our request, you can be rent free'.

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    4. Pat, if that's all you are concerned about re: Trocaire/ Maynooth, you have little to worry about. Anyway, do you know the legal contract between the two entities? Truth is important. This evening I'm deeply saddened and ashamed that 3 people - all homeless - died tragically this week. This issue should touch the conscience of the nation and would give your blog something relevant to talk about instead of the tiresome, repetitive issues of gossip and innuendo about priests and church. Let's pray for our brothers and sisters who died needlessly and as a result of an uncaring society. . Leave Trocaire alone .....

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    5. Also Trocaire is specifically described as the development agency of the Irish Episcopal Conference. Which in turn charges them rent when they take up surplus space in Maynooth. I'm surprised that there isn't more of a fuss. Trocaire isn't a random tenant, it's part and parcel of the Irish Catholic Church. I'd love to know if the bishops also charge rent to the various episcopal conference offices in Maynooth.

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    6. And Trocaire can claim tax relief on the rent it pays to the bishops.

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    7. All deaths are tragic, but more deaths in areas assisted by Trocaire may be avoided by the bishops not extracting rent from Trocaire for unused seminary bedrooms. It should be a national scandal if that's what's happening.

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  20. So Oconnor Murphy moved a Fr Hill and didn't worry that Hill had abused boys

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  21. Why should Pat leave Trocaire alone ????
    If it is too expensive to run, we the people should be told.
    Do u want to bury your head in the sand about Trocaire too ?????
    Same as the Rc church would want us to do re paedophille goings on for years and years

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    1. Do the 26 bishops pay for their bed and board when they stay there?

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    2. @20.27
      Trocaire is a bona fide charity and has a long tradition of organising milk and other food stuffs to starving children and their parents in developing countries where the crops have failed because of long - term drought or floods.

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  22. Can you do a blog,Pat on Trocaire.
    I never knew that the Rc church benefited from Trocaire buildings
    Does the Rc church own Trocaire
    Is it a legit charity
    Please let us have an details.
    Wasn't there a scandal a couple of years ago re a charity ????

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  23. 20 . 21
    Why do u want Trocaire left alone
    Have they something to hide.
    Must google them
    How come it is their fault if people die ?

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  24. Is Trocaire now in Maynooth ?
    Do they pay rent ?
    Is Trocaire run by the RC church....that is the people ofIreland.
    If Trocaire pay rent, who gets the rent.....the laity ? ... who keep Maynooth ????
    Does that mean, when I give to Trocaire, my money goes to pay the Trocaire rent of Maynooth ?
    Who owns the building. ?
    Do the people ofIreland pay twice to keep Maynooth
    Once to the bishops for the upkeep Maynooth
    A second time to pay the rent for Trocaire
    Now I'm sure there must be a third time ????
    Holy trinity and all that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  25. Trocaire is one of the most hardworking and best known charities around. It has been feeding the hungry, especially children in drought -ridden countries since it was first established in Ireland away back in 1973. It is now busy in over 20 of these countries and so yes, it most certainly is a legitimate charity. So I don't think they need any lectures from us on how to survive amidst all the odds! However, I'm sure they welcome volunteers and financial help to eradicate as much poverty as possible.

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  26. Derry changes for 2017 out - no Brendan Collins on the list - no new appointment in 2017 as stated in the 2016 changes -he is gone - one of the disappeared now

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  27. Trocaire work worldwide in over 20 countries dealing with starvation and homeless families especially those with babies and young children.

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    1. Wouldn't donate a penny to Trocaire. They are not wholly transparent about their expenditure.

      I suspect financial corruption there.

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    2. Trocaire as a registered charity is subjected to annual independent financial scrutiny. Everything is handed over for intense scrutiny and rightly so. I wouldn't worry too much, Magna - - and while I 'm here - - I hope you're in good form these days.!

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    3. Magna, could have written your script. Waste of space, waste of comment. Like you.

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    4. So Fr Brendan Collins spent seven years in training and then was a curate for one or two years? What a poor return on investment and a judgment on his seminary formators and the bishop who ordained him.

      PS have a look at the Clonfert diocese website clergy pages. None aged under 50. A diocese run into the ground by its bishop. It happened when he was in charge. The buck stops here.

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  28. If a charity is very successful and starts to spread into other continents it could no longer survive if it was badly run by people who walked away at a moment's notice or weren't accountable and excellent organisers willing to make it their life's work. There comes a time in a large-scale successful charity's development when it needs to pay a small number of people to be completely able to get their full time and daily commitment without those workers being distracted away by the demands of a daily job to earn their living somewhere else.

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  29. Still no information on why Maynooth building is involved.
    Is it the 3 rd secret ?

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  30. The building is being put into use in a very good cause. Trocaire needs to spend a minimum on rent so that its funds go to its essential urgent projects sending lorries of food to families who are in crisis in Africa.

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  31. Read Trocaire's annual report to see how much they spend on rent to occupy surplus seminary bedrooms in Maynooth. They were instructed by the bishops to relocate there from their former base in Co Dublin. Trocaire objected but the bishops wanted to use empty space in Maynooth. The key question is who benefitted?

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  32. I slaw some loads that came off lorries once in Bosnia
    Not a pretty sight, , stuff lying in a warehouse notdistributed

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    1. Your rants regarding Trocaire are becoming tiresome and a tad obsessive. Are you a disgruntled ex employee because you certainly sound like one.

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  33. No I worked in a profession totally unrelated .
    I'm not ranting, just asking questions, to date unanswered.
    I worry about the large amounts of money donated to Trocaire and not enough transparency, if any.
    Rfecently I gave to the Daughters of Charity of st Vincent de Paul.
    And yes I did see shed loads of stuff abandoned in Croatia, not a pleasant sight.

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    1. Trocaire may not be to blame as in many villages they are responsible only for the delivery of the goods on the lorries and local red tape over distribution of the stuff can be a tiresome nightmare. Trocaire have to attempt to keep in co-operation with local officials.

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  34. Thing is no bishop has a business education, haven't a clue how to run one, so should not be in charge of people's money.

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    1. Perhaps that's why they always have the services of a professional accountant nowadays. Would that be it?

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  35. Induction of new PP in Cookstown, by Bishop Amy and his sidekick was Brendan Marshall on the night. Who Amy made a big fuss of as one of the Dioceses Seminarians. Special prayer for him. You'd have thought he was getting the keys to the Church.

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