Monday, 16 October 2017

BISHOPS SALARIES AND EXPENSES




A RECENT "DEFENDED OF THE FAITH" ON THIS BLOG  - DEFENDING CHURCH FINANCES - CLAIMED THAT ALL PARISHES AND DIOCESES NOW PUBLISH A FULL SET OF ACCOUNTS.

If that is the case why is the salaries and expenses of priests and bishops in every diocese easily available in the public forum?

In 1983 when Cahal Daly got himself two auxiliary bishops - Paddy Walsh and Tony Farquhar - Cahal told us then priests that he would require £120,000 per annum for the running of the three bishops offices.

This morning I checked with the Bank of England and discovered that £120,000 in 1983 is now worth about £370,000.

Does that mean that if three bishops cost £370,000 a year - one bishop costs £123,000 a year?




If so that would place the salary and expenses of a bishop at circa  £ 2,365 or £ 9,461 a month?

Not bad for a man who does not have to support a wife or a family?

In a fairly recent survey, THE IRISH CATHOLIC said that the priests of Clogher diocese received an average wage of Euros 33,960 ( £ 30,127) and priests in Derry received Euros 11,664 (£ 10,347).

It also said that only two dioceses refused to provide them with figures - the Archdiocese of Cashel and Emly and the Diocese of Meath - two of the wealthiest dioceses in the country.

Recent contributors to this Blog have put priests' salaries at between £19,000 and £ 25,000 with additional expenses.

So, how much does an Irish bishop earn?

Some priests tell me that the bishop has a basic wage of between £40,000 and £50,000.

And top of this the bishop generally has a nice "palace" free of charge.

Does the bishop have to pay for his food and his housekeeper in the palace?

Presumably, the diocese pays for the rates, the insurance, the telephone, the stationery, the electricity and the heating oil.

Who pays for the bishop's car and his chauffeur, if he has one?

Who pays for the bishop's travels?

For instance who pays for Diarmuid Martin's regular trips to Rome and his lecture trips around the world?




And who pays for Noel Treanor's regular trips to all parts of the European continent?





And who paid the bill when Phonsie, Nulty, Leahy and Treanor went on that recent trip with Trocaire to Africa? Did it come out of the Trocaire boxes?



What good did the trip of these 4 bishops do for the people of Zimbabwe? How are they better off for the visit?

Could the money for that trip have been used for more projects in Zimbabwe?

And what of Treanor's Palace in Belfast - "Chateau Noel"? He did tell us that the renovation was paid for by three "donors" - the NI Department of the Environment - £303,000 and the rest by two unnamed donors.  Who were they - the SDLP? The Sisters of Nazareth? The Ancient Order of Hibernians? Liam Neeson from Ballymena? 


NOEL TREANOR'S HOUSE AFTER RENOVATION


And was it necessary to have internal door handles at £250 a whack and wallpaper at £100 a roll?


NOEL TREANOR'S RENOVATED SECURITY GATES


In this day and age should it not be possible for us to go on to Google and look at the annual accounts of any diocese or parish - or at least go to offices of Companies House or the Charity Commissioner and look it all up?

Nobody reasonable expects any priest or bishop to live in hardship. Far from it. as the Bible says: "The labourer is worthy of his hire".

But with such large sums of monies involved should there not be total transparency in 2017 - especially when the monies come from public donations etc?

113 comments:

  1. Big tree there looks ominous.iif trees didn’t grow near roads we wouldn’t have 3 casualties today
    R I P

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  2. The salaries and expenses, especially of Irish bishops, is another scandal waiting in the wings.

    No wonder these men prefer the darkness of non-disclosure to the light of full and accessible transparency. They are afraid of getting a 'bad Press', something they should be well accustomed to by now.

    I shouldn't donate, on moral principle, one penny to the institutional Roman Catholic Church. The same goes for the Irish bishop's baby, Trocaire, which is not wholly upfront about its expenditure.

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  3. MourneManMichael17 October 2017 at 01:27

    +Pat, I have not read today's blog, but if you permit, I would like to comment here back to Magna's comment yesterday.

    Magna, I make no mischief by seeking specific information on facts; evidence of facts; the knowledge and extent of knowledge of those facts, and the timeline, sources and information flow concerning those facts.
    In seeking such clarity it may seem to you that I am being obtuse. However I believe it preferable to attempt to form an assessment and subsequent opinion based on hard evidence, and leave aside in so far as I can, the biases I, like everybody, inevitably carry as a fact of life experience.

    I do not intend to continue this exchange of views any further, as certain traits in your responses cause me to consider it meaningless. We will have to politely agree to differ.

    I would earnestly ask you to reflect on the views expressed by Anon@21:52 on 16/10 in order that you avoid ending up as described in the first sentence by Anon @ 20:46 on 16/10.
    With sincerity:
    MMM

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @MMM Thank you for your compassionate words to Magna Carta urging him to reflect on what people are saying to him. I'm afraid it's unlikely he will do so but thank you for trying.

      Delete
    2. Well said, MMM. But I fear you are wasting your time.

      All you will get is another interminable epistle of caustic self-justification because this man, in his own regard, is incapable of wrongdoing.

      It’s all your fault, you see, for being obtuse (I know, rich coming from him) and mischievous!

      Everyone else is always at fault with MC. We are all intellectual pygmies before this self-styled, self-proclaimed, self-regarding polymath. Lol

      Seriously though, good try; but I fear MC is utterly lacking in any capacity of being able to sincerely reflect upon himself and how he impacts upon others.

      Delete
    3. MMM@ 1.27. You make a very kind and considered invitation to Magna to reflect on comments yesterday, not just from myself and others, but from you especially, as I believe you are one of the more reasoned and reasonable contributors. I think it's unacceptable that we have to continually beg for Magna to refrain from his turbulent, derogatory and offensive comments, some of which have bordered on racism. We should not have to apologise for our legitimate criticisms. To prevent himself from descending into despair, Magna should take time out to look within his conscience and heart to discover what causes his intolerance, condescension and abuse towards others, thus destroying whatever credibility he may have. In relation to today's blog, it is important to know that every Diocese is now regulated by the Revenue Commission under the new charities act and is subject to thorough scrutiny every year. Parishes likewise have to fulfill the same requirements and are regularly monitored by Finance Secretariats. Concerning a priest's salary: each Diocese operates a different system of payment which implements regulatory guidelines from the new Charities Act/ Revenue. Each priest must submit all statements of income and expenditure to the Revenue in relation to his tax liabilities. There is a thorough process in place. Of course some, as in any self employment situation, will find loopholes, but you do so at your peril. Already Magna has alluded to salaries of Bishops as another "scandal". Where is his "incontrovertible" evidence - blowing in the wind!! I could have written every word of his contribution at 00.44. Ophelia must have kept him up all night!! Here's hoping that Magna will follow advice given by MMM, trace back to and reflect on the blogs of last night at 20.46 & 21.52. MMM is deserving of our gratitude.

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    4. Jeez! Would you ever listen to yourselves? What a collective and bombastic burlesque of moral righteousness! The blogging equivalent of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Ha ha


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    5. Would YOU ever go and listen to YOURSELF, Magna Carta? Do us all a favour. You really and truly are a study.

      Delete
    6. Hasn't it been fascinating following the recent exchanges between MMM and Magna C?
      On the one hand, an example of measured tolerance, considerate and logical articulation devoid of sweeping generalisations to ask straightforward questions.
      On the other hand, a continual haughty avoidance of specific answers, unsupported assumptions and allegations.
      And, as can be seen below by MC aat 13.00 below, MM is now regarded as obtuse whereas a few days ago he was referred to 'with respect'. by MC.
      I wonder which of these two contributors would make the most interesting companion for afew pints over a meal?
      But seriously, will MC ever learn?

      Delete
    7. Personally I would enjoy meeting both men for a pint or a meal.

      Each would be different but interesting.

      Delete
    8. Pat I would like to read a blog post here by Magna Carta. It would be an edifying and improving read. After all he's much beyter than the other riff raff what post here and much better educated.

      Delete
  4. A very stilted and cold performance by Noel in that video. As you say, what benefit accrued to the people from that episcopal jaunt.

    Interesting to get a glimpse of Lisbreen over Noel's shoulder. Fancy fireplace, wood panelling and wallpaper at £100 a roll.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Noel had made a religion of not meeting me since he came 9 years ago.

      But I regularly hear from people and priests who meet with him in Chateau Noel.

      Invariably the words used are: cold, aloof, staring out the window.

      There seems to be no warmth or even gratitude to priests who have given years of service.

      Strange!

      Delete
    2. Noel would probably be considered (his gaffe over Ian Elliot aside) a 'good' priest. But from all those uncomplimentary remarks about him, a good person?

      Delete
    3. In the video, Noel refers to this "boring activity" and then he corrects himself.

      Pat did you ever hear it said that Protestant clergy have better halves and Catholic ones have better quarters?

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    4. 'Twas maybe a Freudian slip?😆

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    5. Aul noel minds me of a cross between jackie Fullerton and anne hales. His aul plummie voice is as fake as his hair . I reckon our noleen gets a wee whitener put in every now n again . Maybe he was over seein mrs magabbiewabbie wen he was in Zimbabwe and she gave him a shampoo n set

      Delete
    6. Arlene's on fire17 October 2017 at 22:17

      Funny and probably true comment by MC. And 21:29 is spot on. That's not a Monaghan accent and Noel says Zimbabwe in a curious, clipped way. Must be what many years in Brussels does to the accent.

      Delete
  5. I imagine financial reporting used by Irish bishops and prelates is likely to be similar to the accounting methods used by the likes Christina Gallagher, for example, of the House of Prayer.

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    Replies
    1. That's a strictly cash in hand operation. Move along, Revenue Commissioners, there's nothing to see.

      Delete
  6. I remember reading five years about the well known pulpit poove to the stars, Father Michael Seed, giving a £34,000 cheque drawn from his order’s charity bank account to a friend, Chinese businesswoman Xuelin Black, who later paid the money into his personal account.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370323/Tony-Blairs-priest-fixed-papal-knighthoods-cash.html#ixzz4vkPBlNCT

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    Replies
    1. Amazingly, the same disgraced pulpit poove to the stars was, allegedy, in secret talks with the Duke of York of all people at Buckingham Palace a year ago. What next!

      www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3728670/SEBASTIAN-SHAKESPEARE-Andrew-s-secret-Palace-talks-controversial-priest-converted-Tony-Blair-Duchess-Kent-Catholicism.html

      Delete
    2. 8:32 & 8:59
      Your intemperate language stinks.

      Delete
    3. Then stop allowing bloggers use that horrendous word. Pat, it is insulting to you and to all of us. I would have zero tolerance for such words on this blog.

      Delete
    4. I never thought this blog was for the faint hearted. It seems a high percentage of subject matter relates to poovery and/or disgraced pulpit pooves. It's tame considering the nastiness the Church dishes out to folk.

      Delete
    5. A friend affectionately refers to vicars and priests as 'chocolate chimney sweeps'.

      Delete
    6. 15:47
      Your contributions are like a broken record.

      Delete
  7. Looking like the higher one goes up the ecclesiastical chain of employment the more employees seem to live in a world of their own. It may also seem this world may not mirror the principles of the Gospel

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  8. Most dioceses are now limited companies, such as 'Cork & Ross Ltd'. You might think that this results in such accounts being published - however we also need to remember that all priests are ultimately self-employed due to abuse of the tax laws within this island.

    I remember having dinner with a Cloyne priest in 2009. His next door parish was in Cork & Ross, and naturally he occasionally got that phone call to supply cover. After a few drinks he started giving out - why should he cover for his neighbour when he received a salary of €18k and his neighbour receives a salary of €31.5k.

    He also said that there was a payrise for PPs and that the bishop took two PP salaries by appointing Administrators in two parishes and holding the PP role to himself. ----- Perhaps this is why D.Martin has so many Adms in Dublin???

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. One of the traditional incomes for a bishop came from a number of parishes, including the cathedral, being a "mensal" parishes with adms.

      The PP was not the bishop in person but the BISHOP'S TABLE - from Latin for table - mensa.

      The bishops table being a "juridical person".

      Delete
    2. 8.44. Your piece is totally speculative, misinformed and wildly untrue. Guve us verifiable fifures, sources etc...Any of us can say we had dinner with a Priest who may have said something by way of a grievance. Then it's embellished by you and others, all to ignite controversy. If you feel unhappy about slaries for priests or bishops, don't contribute - which is your right but spare us your mock indignation and falsehoods. Pat, you too should stop fuelling untruths.

      Delete
    3. You often hear the truth over dinner and a glass of wine?

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    4. At 11.36 - you say 8.44 is wrong. If you know that to be the case than tell us the correct answer? Without that then it is you who are guilty of speculation and baseless points - not to mention throwing the toys out of the pram.

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    5. At 11.36, before you collar goes to your head remember, you are a priest not a Priest.

      Delete
  9. Pat what about all the money you received for them sham-weddings that nearly got you jailed?

    Pot and Kettle comes to mind......

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent question by 10.45 which has been asked often by bloggers but Pat plays loose with figures and the truth. Also, when in the true presbyterate, Pat held out his hand for all financial perks and benefits. He did not go hungry or want for any daily necessity..neither does he live in penury at the moment..pot, kettle, black...Pat!!

      Delete
    2. have celebrated 4000 weddings and blessings in my 33 year private ministry.

      The weddings that were the subject if that court case were 14 in number - .03% of all my ceremonies. That means that there lies no legal question over 99.07% of my ceremonies.

      These couples were sent to me by a bent solicitor. When she sent them I did not know she was bent.

      Allowing for my current (and then) fees I got £ 4200 plus travelling expenses over a 3 year period all amounting to £ 4000 plus for 2007, 2008 and 2009 - £ 1000 plus per year.

      The judge made me pay £ 6000 compensation to the state and gave my 6 nonths to do so. I borrowed the money from a friend and paid it all back.

      I was indeed a fool to trust this solicitor and was also blinded by the fact that I (wrongly) thought I was helping helpless immigrants.

      It is the only time in 65 years that I had been in trouble with the law.

      But if any person works at the coal face of human nature there is always a danger of being mistaken, misguided, unwise, etc.

      By the way, just because I have decided to answer this question DOES NOT mean that I will allow the pirhana critics of this Blog a feeding frenzy to bloody the waters with my blood.

      I am currently writing a book that deals with these matters and there are serious questions to be asked about my court case involving at least one meeting of a senior Catholic church figure with a very senior policeman!

      Delete
  10. It’s time for all diocesan priests in Ireland to have a single salary scale. This should take account of years of service and current role - PP or CC or PC.
    The current system is untenable, anomalous, unjust and no longer fit for purpose.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree. The Presbyterian Church publish every minister's salary on the whole Ireland in their year book.

      Delete
  11. Some of us don't be don't need to "go on to Google and look at the annual accounts". We do it the simple way.
    We pick up our own copy of the accounts which is ready for us as we all leave on certain Sundays after Mass. After all we are the people who supplied the money. We didn't refuse to contribute.
    So it's our business.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So tell us about your Pop's salary your bishop's salary and expenses.

      It's all there on that piece of paper you pick up as you leave church. No?

      Delete
  12. What’s all this about bishops salary
    There should be no salaries
    They there as servants of god
    They should only have their food and basic needs, just like the rest of us.
    No salaries
    No big house, they should live within a parish with the other priests,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And what do you make of the Bible saying: "The labourer is worthy of his hire".

      Priests too have to eat, pay electricity and heating, run a car, pay tax and insurance, buy clothes and shoes etc.

      Are they not entitled to a holiday of some kind?

      Delete
    2. @"12.2!
      Aren't you describing the monk's life or the top echelon of Opus Dei? Sounds like it.

      Delete
  13. The answer to your angst, 12:21, lies hidden in your comment: these men are NOT 'servants of god', which is why they behave as they do.

    How did I hear professional clergy described recently? Oh, yes! As 'the headlice of humanity'.

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    Replies
    1. MC, is that not unfair to at least some good priests who do good in the community.

      I'm thinking of Father McDyer of Glencolmcille who economically uplifted that very poor Donegal hamlet?

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    2. Bishop Pat, with respect you can sometimes be as obtuse as MMM. I was speaking of clergy IN GENERAL, not of individual priests. I made this point before on the blog.

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    3. I understand. But maybe those priests who do try hard might feel the tail wind of your storm :-)

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    4. At 13:00
      You need to return to First Arts logic - if you were ever there. It’s never too late (or too early).

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    5. One wonders where lies hidden the answer to your own angst, MC.

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    6. Oh dear! Poor Pat.. that's you told off for being.. what was it... "obtuse."LOL

      Delete
    7. Lol this was only a matter of time. Magna Carta turns on Bishop Buckley who has allowed him a free rein on here.
      Magna Carta - why don't you start your own blog. Just put the address on here and I for one will follow avidly.

      Delete
    8. @15:21 That one's easy - he wanted to be a priest himself. He's always refused to disclose how he left. So his angst is simply because he never got there himself.
      Now wait for the rant.

      Delete
    9. Y'know, 20:49, that's not a bad idea. And 't would be a better one, had I even half Bishop P's journalistic ability and experience.

      But, alas and alack, I don't.

      Thank ee kindly, anyway, for the suggestion.

      Delete
  14. Glencolmcille is heaven on Earth
    Anyone could uplift such a heavenly spot
    I did say basic needs Pat, think that include food and shoes etc
    That’s what the rest of us do every day, but we work, bishops don’t do a fecking thing, there is no need for them, sbsolutely no need.
    Just as I consider you a good priest, why u call yourself bishop is where I would object .

    ReplyDelete
  15. I go to glencolmcille often
    The bars and the music and the scenery to die for.
    Don’t think they need a priest

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @13.25
      Yes, Glencolmcille is beautiful
      The atmosphere in the pubs is congenial, I agree.
      But "Don't think they need s priest"!! Sadly, many of them probably agree with you.
      I don't.

      Delete
    2. 14.49
      What I ment was that they have no need for a priest to interfere in their economic well-being
      As to their spiritual lives, I’ve no knowledge or am not in the slightest interested.

      Delete
    3. Interfere or improve their economic well-being? Why read or comment on a Catholic blog if you've no knowledge or the slightest interest in spiritual lives?

      Delete
    4. The good people of that area don’t need me commenting on their spiritual lives.
      Neither should you as you did in post 14.59.

      Delete
  16. Some of us don't be don't need to "go on to Google and look at the annual accounts". We do it the simple way.
    We pick up our own copy of the accounts which is ready for us as we all leave on certain Sundays after Mass. After all we are the people who supplied the money. We didn't refuse to contribute.
    So it's our business.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Never saw any bishops money or expenses on the leaflet I pick up
    And as many are typed by the Pp, it could all be inaccurate and false.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have a Finance Committee and the accounts are checked carefully.

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    2. The "leaflet"??What church was that I wonder?

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    3. 14.28
      Let me tell u something
      Where the finance committee is not changed in years, money can be abused and used as desired
      Don’t be fooled, don’t trust anyone with peoples money

      Delete
    4. People serve on committee for a year or two and then are happy to let someone else do it.

      Delete
  18. Just a little intelligence from the English side of the water: Card Cormac M-O'C lived out his retirement days in a nice several million pound plus house owned by the Archdiocese of Westminster in Chiswick. Very nice. He was accompanied by Mgr Roger Reader, who also had a job as the head honcho of the RC chaplains in prisons. Mgr Roger sort of looked after Cormac, who no doubt needed a bit of looking after, especially in the evenings, given as he was to imbibing fine wines ! Anyhow, Mgr Reader has recently been appointed as Vice-Rector of the English College in Valladolid. I imagine he will be thrilled at this appointment, and the opportunity of a sunshine tour in Spain. Although, in these days of shortage of priests, why would you send a capable man like Reader to Valladolid to look after a handful of young men who are doing a kind of secular priests' noviciate ? Or maybe it's a preparation for him to get a mitre - lots of seminary rectors do move up in that way ? But, the thought did cross my mind (am I being wicked here ?!) that given the impending retirement of Vinnie - probably in the next 2 or 3 years -, is he clearing the decks so that he can move in to the Chiswick house for his genteel retirement ? It will be interesting to see who moves in there in the meantime, but I bet they will be on a rolling short term lease so that Vinnie can have it when he wants it. Vinnie plans ahead, and his options will be either to become the Grande Dame of English Catholicism in retirement, housed in Chiswick; or to move to something in Rome, but keep Chiswick as a London pad for his visits. Or, again, am I being a bitch thinking these things ?! I don't think Vinnie will be moving in to Nazareth House or the Little Sisters of the Poor. Mind, you, I don't blame him !

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    Replies
    1. How is Pat meant to have such a detailed knowledge of Archdiocese of Westminster? Pat lives in Larne.
      Larne has a smaller population than an extensive area of London.

      Delete
    2. Er, Bishop Pat IS interested in what goes on there. He made this clear elsewhere on the blog.

      Delete
    3. Being “wicked”? Being a “bitch”?

      I say, steady on old chap.

      That kind of thing would never be tolerated on here.

      Delete
    4. Nazereth House have no space at the moment. Not sure about Little Sisters of the Poor. You could enquire though.

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    5. We didn't say Pat wasn't "interested". Did we?

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    6. This blog is very interested in everything that happens in the Irish, English and international Church.

      We have featured much about Westminster.

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    7. Why Chiswick? Is it easy to get to, is it on the District Line or the Hammersmith and City? I must confess I found Chiswick a bit dull though maybe that's why it's an elephants' graveyard for superannuated red hats.

      Mind you, Cormac had a busy retirement, plotting with other such illustrious churchmen as Danneels of Brussels to put Francis Most Humble on the Chair of St Peter.

      Delete
    8. Arlene's on fire17 October 2017 at 21:57

      Is it true that there are four overseas seminaries serving England and Wales: the Beda, English College Rome, English College Valladolid. Is there a fourth?

      Plus on home soil there's Allen Hall, Wonersh and Oscott, Ushaw having been chopped thanks to a rearguard action by the powerful south of England bishops, led by Cormac.

      Why so many seminaries nowadays? They cost a fortune and tie up many priests in an era of priest shortage. The answer is that the bishops don't want to admit, by closing seminaries, that the renewal and growth promised by the Spirit of Vatican II hasn't happened. Rather than being a new Pentecost or Springtime it's turned out to be a Lent and bleak mid-Winter.

      The same carry-on happens in Ireland where there are three seminaries for a handful of seminarians.

      In both Ireland and the UK a severe ecclesiastical retrenchment is taking place. All the hard won and paid by pennies of the poor institutions are closing or being secularised (convents, abbeys, seminaries), parishes merge and the aged congregations have aged priests. Good old Vatican II.

      Delete
  19. 14:06, you mean you wouldn't take a professional clergyman's word? A 'man of God'?!

    Why ever not?😆

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have trust issues and it affects different family issues too. Not a help normally.

      Delete
    2. Oh, I think it the perfect default position where professional clergy are concerned.

      Your caution serves you well.

      Delete
    3. Pat, I'm shocked that you are allowing Magna appear. It's like watching The Jeremy Kyle Show or Jerty Springer - car crash blogging, a person falling apart. The guy has lost all self respect and credibility. To attack all around him in so ignorant a manner is unacceptable. He'll destroy this blog. To attack MMM who is one of the more accurate and balanced contributors is outrageous. When Magna is defeated by challenge and logic he resorts to bursts of abuse and vitriol. I believe that his continuing abusive behaviour and deep personal difficulties should not be allowed. In a way we are ENABLING the worst within him grow deeply. Perhaps Magna might find a trusted friend to talk with, if not this blog should allow him the privacy of his lonely world and not give him a forum for his dangerous intemperance on many levels.

      Delete
    4. There now, 16:13. All better now?!

      Yes, a rant is as good as a rum for relieving stress.

      Delete
    5. We have asked MC not to have outbursts and he may more or less obliged. He is entitled to disagree with any of us in a dignified manner. He called me obtuse - which is not nasty in my mind.

      I think MMM is well able to take care of himself.

      I don't think the rest of us are entitled to decide if MC is lonely or whatever.

      I'm trying to be fair to all.

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    6. The point I make about MMM is that he is well respected on this blog but you, Pat give Magna far too much freedom to insult in a most horrible, abusive way. Can't you see how unacceptable this abuse is?

      Delete
    7. (Another commenter) I have repeatedly forecast the destruction of this blog as the published face of Pat's work, by Magna Carta's behaviour but Pat isn't interested. I have speculated that this is Magna's intention - there's no other reason yoi'd behave like that on someone else's blog.
      It's an interesting parallel to other bishops who don't listen, ignore valid cpncerns and only take action when forced.
      Why don't you try moving him to another parish, Pat?

      Delete
    8. 21:09, are you a natural harbinger of doom? Or a crafted one? Either way, you're not very good at it, are you? Cos the blog's thrivin'!😆

      Delete
    9. Yes everything's fine isn't it. When will you turn up in 'the missions'?

      Delete
  20. Yes Pat, you can do the marriage ceremony.
    No ones business
    They do repeat this question you every year, don’t let them get to you.
    Many people are called into the law courts that should not have been.
    Do tell us about that senior clergy man

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm afraid I have no definite proof but am working on it.

      Delete
  21. Pat doesn’t run a parish
    He is a private priest, meaning non establishment .
    So he has no need to tell us or you what his money concerns are.
    But by all means do donate.

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for what you say.

      In one sense I may be a "private" priest - in the sense that I am outside the system.

      But every good priest needs to realise that he has two owners - two masters - God and those he serves.

      I make my self employed tax returns every year.

      The UK Government "living wage" is £8.45 an hour for a 40 hour week - £338 a week.

      I do not limit myself to 40 hours. I am available 24/7.

      I can pay my bills - housekeeping, car, tax, insurance, etc. I can take a holiday.

      I am not a "poor" man at all.

      I have no pension except the state pension.

      I have no private health cover. I depend on the NHS.

      I have no savings.

      I have debts.

      I do not own even one property.

      But I can tell you this - I am a happy, blest man and I love being a priest more today than I dis when I was ordained 41 years ago.

      If you are suited to it - it is one of the most rewarding vocations on earth.

      If you are not suited to it - it will destroy you and those you touch!

      Delete
    2. Your last line reminds me of St. Thomas Aquinas quote 'you are a priest forever to your credit or your shame'.

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  22. Pat why are publishing comments re Magna
    Let them go and and dip their comments elsewhere.
    Please ignore personal comments
    Will u never learn.

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  23. I am a middle aged Irish diocesan priest and when I had a huge problem a number of years ago someone prevailed upon me to go and discuss my predicament with Pat Buckley. Because he is a public figure and a Church critic I approached him with a certain amount of trepidation. I was greeted with warmth and compassion. He listened as I told my sad tale. He responded to my embarrassment with compassion and reassurance. He referred me to a number of professional people who helped me in a way I never imagine being helped. Pat has a well deserved reputation for being a "warrior". But many others, me included, know he is also a "father" and a "healer". I am well back on the road at this stage and run a busy parish on my own. Pat and I keep in touch and occasionally meet. To this very day I admire him (knowing of course he is not perfect). He is more a bishop to me than my own "local ordinary". I sometimes wish others saw this part of Pat's ministry. But by its very nature it has to be concealed and hidden. I know other seminarians and priests who have benefited from his ministry. Those in the Church who actively dislike him are those who have either never met him or are afraid of him and his knowledge of so much that remains hidden.

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    1. I'm a layman who's never met Pat or been to the Oratory. I emailed once to say I wanted to discuss a problem. We spoke subsequently on the phone and he was wise, helpful, and gave warm and good advice and was an excellent, encouraging listener who was interested in what I had to say. It was a wholly positive experience.

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  24. I've just watched the video featuring Dr Noel Treanor, Lord Bishop of Down and Under. AND...I...WAS...ENTHRALLED! Especially when His Lordship graciously expressed genuine concern for Zimbabweans affected by the rising incidence of HIV in their country.

    I was moved, almost to adulation, when he railed against magisterial prohibition of birth control. It was an eiphany moment for me! To be in moral solidarity with His Lordship, when he recognised and criticised this prohibition as inhuman, and probably the greatest facilitator for spreading the HIV in Zimbabwe. (Latest news: Pope Francis has said he will urgently ponder Dr Treanor's fulsome concern and respond speedily, perhaps in a millenium or two.)

    It was immeasurably gratifying, and morally compelling, when Dr Treanor, moved by the squalid habitation of these poor Zimbabweans, impulsively invited as many as he could, along with their extended familes and their animals, to join him next summer, for an indefinite stay, in Lisbreen, his Somerton Road home.

    After this, the bishop slowly and purposefully faced west (seemingly towards Ireland), whereupon he let out a primal, jubilant roar: 'Now do you understand, Pat Buckley, why I spent such a colossal sum renovating and refurbishing my home?! This was the Lord's doing, not mine. AND...IT...IS...A...MARVEL...IN...OUR...EYES!

    The bishop, Phondsifiedly flushed and placeted, then turned to his now gathered and grateful little flock, and tearfully told them: 'It is not much. My house may be compact and bijou, and space within it at a high premium, but with God's grace, and a little ingenuity, we can find room for you all'. To which went heavenward the cries of grateful Zimbabweans: 'God bless, His Lordship! God bless us, one and all!'


    FOR THOSE OTHERS WHO CONTRIBUTE TO THE BLOG BUT LACK A SENSE OF IRONY (and I know you are not few) THIS COMMENT IS CALLED 'SATIRE'.

    SATIRE IS A FORM OF WRITING NOT MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD LITERALLY. I WANT TO STRESS THIS DETAIL, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT MANY OF YOU CANNOT DISTINQUISH BETWEEN THE LITERAL AND THE NON-LITERAL, WHICH IS WHY YOU HABITUALLY EXPRESS SUCH A POOR UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE.😆

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    1. If that was meant to be humorous MC don’t give up your day job ( if you have one).

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    2. Oh, I work as hard as any priest.😉

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    3. Why the need the need to publish 20.27 post

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    4. You really are a tit.

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    5. MC works far harder than any priest. For when most priests are in their scratchers, Magna is up praying and keeping vigil - at 2,3, 4 and 5am.

      He’s like the prophet Daniel gazing into the visions of the night. It’s the prayers and vigils of victim souls, like Magna Carta, that stay the hand of God from smiting the world in wrath.

      He’s like the big scary nun in that old film The Song of Bernadette, whose eyes burned “like the very fires of hell” because they needed sleep, sleep she would not give them.

      Be grateful for the constant prayers and sacrifices of MC.

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    6. MC is not a man to use one word where ten will do!

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  25. Glad you have a day job Magna. We were beginning our Novenas for your healing and sanity. God give you healing.

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    1. Seriously?

      (Sigh) If only you meant that.

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    2. Saying that someone can't posdibly be serious is just another of Magna's little ways of disrespecting others.

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  26. Merciful Hour! Magna Carta, is there no end to your brilliance!

    Not content with making us beneficiaries of your impeccable scholarship and erudition, day and daily, you now treat us to this Scintillatingly original piece of satirical writing. Sheer genius!

    The poor missus thought one was having some sort of a seizure as one read it earlier, so great were one’s paroxysms of merriment.

    Indeed, so violent was one of one’s guffaws, that one’s false teeth flew across the living room and bit ‘er indoors’ on the bottom, as she was bent over, tending the hearth.

    The sheer genius and originality of your piece are quite breathtaking. I mean, satirists like Oscar Wilde, GB Shaw, et alia - eat your hearts out! Magna Carta at 18:16 is literature at its sparkling best.

    Bishop Pat, during these dark days of hurricanes and fake news, global warming and economic downturns, wouldn’t it be an idea to entirely give over your blog, one day a week, to Magna Carta, for him to write a weekly satirical column? Something like Joe Duffy does sometimes on Fridays?

    We could call it “Wet Yourself Wednesday” or “Can’t Move For Laughing Monday” or something catchy like that. It would be just the tonic we all need in these bothersome times and we would all look forward to it each week - much as one looks forward to Strictly Come Dancing of a Saturday. Do please consider it.

    Once again, Magna old boy, thanks ever so. I read out your send up to wifey earlier after I had recovered my breath and she couldn’t stop wetting herself. One was, as the grandkids do say, LMFAO!

    Please excuse one as one must now attend to the teeth marks on her ladyship’s derriere. I’m hoping she won’t need a tetanus.

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    Replies
    1. Aww, shucks! You have me coy 'n' blushin' now, and shiftin' me feet uncomfortably.😆

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    2. Arlene's on fire17 October 2017 at 22:08

      Like you, I can't stop ROFLing at Magna's comedy. I might have to phone in sick tomorrow as I know I'll laugh myself awake constantly during the night and I won't get a wink of sleep.

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    3. You do realise MC that 21:24 is using satire about YOU - don’t you?

      What’s more, he’s good at it - you’re not. If you were on stage you’d be booed off.

      Satire and comedy - like people skills - are not among your strong points.

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  27. To Magna Carta: I love your posts here. If ever I feel a bit down, I read what you have to say and it so cheers me that there is always someone more lonely, obtuse, socially inept and incapable than myself.
    FOR MAGNA CARTA: THIS COMMENT IS CALLED 'SATIRE'.

    SATIRE IS A FORM OF WRITING NOT MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD LITERALLY. I WANT TO STRESS THIS DETAIL, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT MANY OF YOU CANNOT DISTINQUISH BETWEEN THE LITERAL AND THE NON-LITERAL, WHICH IS WHY YOU HABITUALLY EXPRESS SUCH A POOR UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE.

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  28. Brilliant! - -

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  29. As a result of recent criticisms re: MC about and the nature of his abusive, ridiculing, caustic language and his sneering contempt of others, I trust that MMM will not depart. His voice is one of measured expression, with the capacity to both challenge and criticise, but done in a most respectful way. There are a few decent contributors who make this blog interesting, not the gossipers and lovers of innuendo and those who embellish unverifiable allegations but who think rationally, intelligently and logically.There are but a few who inform with their knowledge in an inviting way, but not condescendingly. MC is not in this category. Rather, he belongs to the bullying camp which is unacceptable. And we know what should happen to bullies!!

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    1. MourneManMichael18 October 2017 at 01:23

      In the oft quoted words: "not gone away, you know!"
      But here's a thought, and can I ask contributors views?

      In view of the groundswell of opinions concerning negative or abusive posters to this blog, what are your views on the potential efficacy of simply ignoring them?
      This question could be viewed from the parallel perspective of psychological research on childrens' needs for attention, and the extent to which those feeling ignored may clamour for attention even if that attention becomes hurtful. What might be the cut off point where such clamour diminishes, or even ceases when absolutely no attention is forthcoming? It's an interesting question.
      So if all blog readers simply ignored all personalised, abusive or hostile comments, and made no comment, mention, reply or reference to such posts, is there any possibility that such much
      complained of behaviour might diminish, cease, or that such posters might leave to go elsewhere for their attention fix?
      Interesting questions.
      Over to you.
      MMM

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  30. 21.41
    Copycat, it’s being done, you can’t improve
    Why Pat are you allowing all theses personal slandering
    Understood you were withholding this rubbish

    ReplyDelete