Saturday, 20 January 2018

DIMINISHING THE ABORTION DEBATE


FEMINISTS PROTESTING AT MAYNOOTH STATUE

IN MY OPINION, THE ABORTION ISSUE IS NOT A FEMINIST ISSUE.


IT IS A PERSONAL, MORAL, SOCIAL AND POLITICAL ISSUE - THAT AFFECTS ME AS MUCH AS A MAN AS MUCH IT AFFECTS ANY WOMAN.

As A Christian I believe that abortion can never be described as "A GOOD".

At it's moral best, and in rare situations, it can only be described as "A LESSER OF TWO EVILS".

I am speaking of situations where it a case of saving the life of the mother OR the child - and in cases of rape - and other rare cases. 

I do not go along with the PC slogan - "THE WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE".

Of course, the pregnant woman has primary rights.

But the baby (I deliberately do not use the word foetus) also has primary rights.

The father of the baby has primary rights.

And the wider family and society also has rights - although they may not be described as "primary".

I have never voted for Fianna Fail in my life as I regard them as the party of the rural conservatives -and indeed the party most identified over the years in Ireland with the Roman Catholic Church and its abuse of power. 

But I do admire the stand the FF leader, Michael Martin, took in recent days when he came out in favour of changing the 8th amendment to the Irish Constitution so that limited abortion may become legal in Ireland. 




This will be a painful time in Irish society and politics and we cannot continue to have a constitution and laws that allow for a woman to die in pregnancy and which deny terminations in the most serious of medically and psychologically focused circumstances. 

It would be wonderful if we all lived in a world where everything went right all the time.

But life, including in its reproductive activities, will often throw a spanner in the works and people have hard decisions to make. 

It is not always helpful to respond to these unexpected events with moral absolutism. There is so little black and white in life and in all our lives we are walking on tightropes above a grey terrain. 

At these painful moments, when our moral ideals and absolutes are challenged, we need to be able to respond to the unexpected with a mixture of moral integrity and human practicality. 

This is especially true for those of us TRYING to be Christians - knowing that Jesus, God made man, is the bridge between the ideal and the real. 

That is why we need a spirituality, a body of knowledge and be aware of the limitations of our human efforts. 

When we come to the beginning of our own rope - we have to let go and fall into the Hands of the Living God. 

For those reading who do not believe in God - we need to let go and trust in fate and the ultimate tenderness of a universe that so often appears cruel and impersonal - a beautiful dawn or sunset or a beautiful flower growing through a crack in a concrete path.




92 comments:

  1. The arguments for abortion are all the more evil and damaging because they are dressed up to appear "rational". The thin edge of the wedge is at its most invidious in those circumstances. Black can appear grey when looked at in certain lights. It is still black.

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    1. But it is rational. There is no way something you hardly see can have the same right as the woman who concieved it. Nobody is truly pro-life who hints that the woman is a murderer if she has an abortion. To say that is to say that if magically there was some way to kill the mother to stop the abortion it would be okay.

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    2. 00:26 Well said!

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  2. What hypocritical nonsense. You are a man of God supposedly. You start of defending life and then wearily descend into fence sitting modernism. Don't upset anyone, anything is ok as long as you feel you are doing the right thing. Either man of God or man of the world seeking consolation and a clap on the back. Have a backbone and defend those who cannot defend themselves. Be a man!!!

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    1. Hear! hear! 00.38.

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    2. The above three comments support moral absolutism.

      Moral absolutism is tyranny.

      Real life is much more nuanced.

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    3. The State does moral absolutism all the time. If I killed my neighbour and was found guilty of murder in court I'd get a life sentence.

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    4. Yes, there are some serious things that are simply wrong - - no matter what euphemism you use.

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    5. It's moral absolutism or anarchy. That is the essential message of the basis of our religion in both the O.T. and N.T. 'Grey areas' eventually become 'white areas' without limits and they never, ever, become black again. Difficult cases make for bad law is a true maxim. Black is black and white is white and that is it. Personal conscience, grey areas, difficult cases - it's all the thin end of an endless wedge. The first deformed little boy, who Hitler decreed should be killed at his father's request, became tens of thousands of little Down Syndrome and epileptic children and eventually just those who were troublesome to their carers and diagnosed as incurably ill. Absolutism is not a disease it is the cure for many ills.

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  3. Pat, the 8th amendment to Bunreacht na hEireann is unique in all the world. It enshrines in the foundational statement of our country the recognition that the child in the womb is indeed a child and should be protected as such.
    We have only to look across the water to the UK where in 2016 196,000 abortions took place. What was introduced for the so called hard cases has become as inconsequential as having a tooth removed for so many women. There are legislative ways in which the hard cases can be dealt with without declaring open season on every baby whose arrival doesn't suit at a given moment.
    As soon as we concede the principle there will be no stopping it. That has been the case in every country where abortion was legalised and the annual slaughter of the innocents runs into millions.
    At a time when childless couples are crying out to adopt children others can dispose of them like so much waste.
    Is the best we have to offer a woman in a crisis pregnancy the destruction of her baby?

    Micheal Martin has misjudged the mood of his own party membership and may live to regret it. The lefty cohort whose real aim is abortion on demand at any stage are all playing it cool now. Ivana Bacik has obviously been to charm school and uses the buzzwords of compassion and understanding....how very compassionate to rip an unborn child from the womb and discard it in the refuse bin.
    All of the extrenmist left are playing the same game - because they know that if they can strike down the 8th amendment the rest will come in time....and a very little time at that.

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    1. I do not agree with abortion on demand.

      Nor do I agree with standing by and allowing a mother to die or a rape victim to cut their wrists.

      Nature itself ends at least 50% of pregnancies.

      Intelligence and compassion sometimes forces us to make painful decisions.

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    2. Martin would give birth himself if he thought it would get him back into power.

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    3. Martin is just another utilitarian, pragmatic sneak like Kenny who will say anything expedient to his ends. That end being power at any cost. The blood of innocent children will be on their heads when their short- lived days of power are over.

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    4. This is an incredibly challenging issue for many people. Personally I do not think I would ever choose to have a termination, though I have never been tested by any of the grim situations cited by the Pro Choice lobby such as rape, incest, severe birth abnormalities and others.

      All I would wish to contribute to this debate is that whilst I find the number of terminations in the UK annually shocking, particularly when it is perfectly possible, notwithstanding the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, to prevent unwanted pregnancies through the many different means of contraception, I do think it is important to express compassion for many women who decide to have a termination because they feel they have no other choice or that it is the very best thing for them to do in what seems an appalling situation for them and then grieve for it afterwards. For many, it is a decision that will haunt them for decades afterwards.

      The language that is sometimes used in this debate which attacks some women who are in the most dreadful situations troubles me and I do wonder whether it is the sort of language that Jesus would personally have used or whether he would have withheld the love and compassion he frequently displayed to some pretty unloveable characters from this particular group of women in a way he did not with others.

      Campaign, yes; but I feel both sides should do so in a way that shows as much respect and decency as possible for their opponents.

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  4. MourneManMichael20 January 2018 at 02:00

    I followed and agreed with the thrust of it, ...up to the last two paragraphs which I can't make much sense out of.
    Otherwise I do like what you've written Pat:
    "There is so little black and white, and in all our lives,...we are all walking above a grey terrain".

    What a wonderfully apt description for all the uncertainties and insecurities of the reality of our existence!
    For that alone I thank you for presenting a reality.
    Hopefully, more widespread understanding of this reality in the future might influence the beliefs of those believing/following the typically unquestioning 'cradle catholic' indoctrinated orthodox RC belief system.
    MMM

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    1. MMM at 00.2: A most unfair comment. The Right to life of the Unborn Child is not just a Catholic issue. It's a fundamental human rights issue and it's farcical and disingenuous of you to dismiss pro life peolle as unquestioning or cradle catholics indoctrinated by orthodox RC beliefs. Thst's offensive and wrong. I will never compromise in the sanctity and dignity of life at all stages. Once we intriduce abortion under so called restrictive guidelines, it doesn't take long before those guidelines are widened. Just look at Britain and other European countries. There is what is called the abortion industry and it's a cruel, barbaric reality. God save us from this wrong and evil.

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    2. Roman Catholicism is also an industry - papal visits, mugs, medals, tea towels, annulments etc.

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    3. MourneManMichael20 January 2018 at 12:13

      I respect your opinion. But I too have an opinion which differs, and I choose not to debate the issue here.
      MMM

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    4. MMM at 12.13, by all means express your opinions but don't insult my intelligence or tht of pro life people as being indoctrinated by orthodox Catholic teaching. Many atheists and humanists are pro life. You should know that much. Many non Catholics are pro life. Your judgment surprises me as you are generally reasonable, rational and tolerant. But please - don't insult with the old red herring - of Catholic indoctrination. Yes, I am proud of Catholic moral teachings and guidance on this most fundamental human rights issue - the protection of the dignity, preciousness and sanctity of the unborn child.

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    5. MourneManMichael20 January 2018 at 18:44

      Please do calm yourself Anon@ 14:34.
      By thanking +Pat for highlighting "the grey terrain of the uncertainties and insecurities of our existence" I was expressing a wish that understanding of this reality might influence the unquestioning beliefs of those with a cradle catholic mentality.
      That was a generalised comment with no referance either made or intended in respect of the abortion debate.
      It was you and Anon@10:27 who interpreted my comment as referring to tne abortion issue, and perhaps in retrospect that is understandable in context of this current blog topic.
      But I have to say that for you to then go on to infer I have insulted you or others, appears to derive from the absolutist combative mentality referred to in first two paragraphs of comment by Anon @12:28.
      My experience of absolutist stances and rigidity underpins my reluctance to discuss abortion issues.
      MMM

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    6. MMM at 18.44. Those of us who hold sacred the gift of life, born and unborn do so, not out of our cradle catholic mentality or unquestioned indoctrination, but because we believe that protecting the unborn is the most important human rights issue of our day. If we are Catholic, then we are grateful for the moral teachings on the sanctity of life at all stages. I, for one, will not deviate or equivocate on this belief. And, it's never helpful or respectful to use phrases like "cradle catholic mentality". It's offensive. I could accuse you of a "cradle atheist mentality". . .Bit I wouldn't be so offensive!!

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    7. MourneManMichael21 January 2018 at 00:50

      Thank you Anon @ 00:17, who I am obliged to consider as the same person who previously commented @ 14:34.
      (Oh I do wish people would have the courtesy to use a nom de plume or handle to allow us to follow who has said what!)
      As it seems you are unable or unwilling to appreciate and reply to the point I made, i will not continue this engagement. By all means comment further: you are welcome to having the last word.
      MMM

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  5. Whatever the rights or wrongs, the entire matter should be dealt with in the ROI. Women will still have to travel to the UK or EU for terminations. Same with NI, although Scotland has offered to pay for NI women to have them carried out in Scotland.

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    1. Women don't "have to" travel to the UK etc - - they CHOOSE to.

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    2. A mother dying in a Dublin hospital does not, cannot choose to travel to the UK etc.

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    3. 12:14 Presumably, that is why they are having the referendum.

      It is a great pity the Indian woman's husband did not put her in his car and get her over the border. Doctors there would have helped her I am sure or it.

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    4. 12:14 yes india is a model of how women should be treated????? I suggest you educate yourself!

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    5. @13:28 The Indian woman died was in an ROI hospital hence the referendum.

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    6. She would have been safer in India.

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    7. I doubt that

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  6. No one has the right to kill a baby.

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    1. It's as simple as that.

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    2. No one has the right to force someone to endure a pregnancy.

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    3. Even Roman Catholicism teaches that a moth can receive cancer treatment that kills a baby when the intent is to cure the cancer and not kill the baby.

      Simplistic slogans do not do this debate justice.

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    4. It does not justify the slaughter of the innocent that occurs when abortion is allowed.

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    5. Ah that's grand so we'll just kill the baby? I have two children, both unplanned, I was sick every day of both my pregnancies, (pregnancy is 10 months lads not the advertised 9). I have two beautiful young women as a result.

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    6. You are rich indeed, poster 13.17
      with your two daughters. May they cherish you every day of their lives!

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    7. 13.17
      You one amongst many...sick every day...so what????
      Unplanned??? Aren’t many even most pregnancies unplanned.
      What do you want????
      A medal????

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    8. Such an aggressive response is unwarranted @ poster 18.50
      The lady merely stated her relevant experience.
      I don't recall her expecting medals or anything else from us--apart from a little civility perhaps, but clear that was asking too much where you were concerned.

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    9. As a family mum, I didn’t see the relevance of her post.
      Did she want us to thank her for keeping her pregnancies.
      There are many complicated pregnancies...so what’s your problem ?
      I just gave my opinion on her post.

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    10. Just let the people of Ireland vote.
      Unfortunately people living in the north of the country have no say.
      The women of Ireland will decide, and you can bet they will bring their men out to vote too.
      Of course if the right decision isn’t achieved, they can always keep voting until it is.
      That’s how people in Ireland get what they want...they are a determined lot......lol

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  7. Yes, no one has the right to take the life of another human being. That right is inviolable and the only protection given to an unborn child is provided in the 8th amendment. We diminish ourselves as human beings when we begin to categorise types of individuals whom we deem incompatible with life or as an inconvenience. However the pro choice lobbyists try to camouflage the reality of abortion with their newly acquired soft, compassionate language, the truth still remains - abortion is the destruction of the unborn child. We need, as a caring society to offer proper, amenable, affordable and kind counselling and every support to any woman in a difficult pregnancy both bofore and after the birth of her child. That of course would cost too much....Let's create a true CULTURE OF LIFE WHERE WE CHERISH ALL LIFE, BORN AND UNBORN.

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    1. The RC solution in the past involved forcibly removing girls from their homes and incarcerating them in gulags overseen by Christ's virgin, where they slaved to make these virgins rich and where their babies were taken from them at birth and the girls went on to be Magdalen slaves.

      Not much cherishing of life there - and all in the name of God.

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    2. Pat at 12.24. I could have written your response. It is so predictable and I knew by day's end you'd write precisely what you wrote. It's a distraction and a very distorted argument. Of course women were treated horrendously by Irish society - church, state, individuals, communities - but abortion is a completely different issue. Here we cannot equivocate on the reality of what abortion is and how it is practised. Stay with the subject matter Pat - abortion, which is the destruction of the unborn child. Our repealing the 8th gives freedom to destroy a life up to 12 weeks. That's not humane or right. Ever. Once we allow the law to accept abortion, it eventually becomes acceptable norm and abortion on demand. Look at Britain. So let's not blur the reality by going off topuc as you are prone to doing. Be morally courageous in defending the right to life of the unborn child.

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    3. I will defend the right of the unborn child AND the right of the pregnant mother faced with death or the raped woman faced with an unbearable nightmare.

      If I was that raped woman I would keep the baby and let it be adopted or whatever.

      But I do not have the right to force my way of that raped woman!

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    4. You have certainly the right and indeed duty to condemn murder, so don't worry.

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  8. I fear that anything anyone will say on this blog which is not at either extreme end of the spectrum of the debate will come in for vicious attack by the other side.

    + Pat is right to say that this is a very complicated and nuanced issue, and one extreme or the other does not do full justice to the lived situation in which these decisions have to be made.

    I agree with the Roman Catholic Church's approach to the entire spectrum of life issues - from conception to death - and the requirement to respect the processes of life. That, however, is a starting point. Everything outside of that will necessarily become a compromise. But, life by and large is an exercise in trying to do the best thing in any particular circumstance, including the matter of the unborn and abortion / termination. To have a fixed point from which one will not budge no matter what the circumstances, and a refusal to do what is the right thing to do in a particular circumstance (which often means doing the least harm) is not tenable. In some circumstances preserving the life of the unborn child in all and every circumstance could be the least best thing to do in that circumstance. You may be striving to achieve another good, and in the circumstances have to terminate the life of the unborn. From my limited understanding of moral theology, I believe there is the principle of double effect, and trying to achieve one good might mean doing something that is not so good.

    Whatever the outcome of the referendum in the ROI will be, I hope that any legislation that follows will be very limited, but not so limited or black or white to make it impossible to act, albeit imperfectly, in certain situations that require a person to make the kind of decision I have talked about above. I most certainly would not want to see any vote or legislation be taken as permission to push for abortion on demand, which is effectively what happens in the UK. Just short of 200,000 terminations / abortions a year is more than the entire births per year in the ROI or the whole of the island of Ireland. How horrendous. And I do believe in centuries to come people will look back aghast at the slaughter and holocaust of the innocent that took place in our time. But - that should not stop us making the right decision and enact legislation that is right for our time and circumstances and which respects life but also recognises the complications and nuances of particular situations.

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    1. Excellent, balanced, contribution.

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    2. Excellent contribution!

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  9. The pope ironically can be used to get rid of the eighth. This pope by his actions definitely regards abortion as a person's own business. He has granted major abortion rights person, Lilianne Ploumen, former minister for Foreign Trade and Development Cooperation in the Netherlands. She was honored by Pope Francis with the title of Commander in the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great. From lifesite, "Despite vocal opposition, a notorious Italian abortionist was allowed to speak at a Catholic parish on Wednesday, while pro-life critics were locked out, silenced or kicked out. Despite her abortion advocacy, Emma Bonino was praised by Pope Francis in 2016 as a “forgotten great”. Between her abortion activism and being an abortionist herself, Bonino is directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of roughly six million Italian babies between 1968 and today." The Catholic teaching that baptism really is that important has been scrapped as babies are considered to be in Heaven even if not baptised. That does away with the old fashioned worry that abortion not only killed a child but kept her away from God for all eternity in limbo. It is remarkable that the "virgin Mary" at Medjugorje never mentions abortion and certainly never called it murder.

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    1. If the visionaries read your comment - Mary will speak about the topic at Medjugorje.

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    2. She did mention it..

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    3. To poster @14.24
      A courageous and principled response. May God reward you as He surely will.

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    4. The vergin Mary at Medjugorie...you having us on.???????

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    5. Lol that fraud again. Pat - I love your answer to this.

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  10. Religion and abortion are completely seperate. People need to be clear that a stance supporting abortion needs to be a competely seperate choice to a decision to stand against the Institutional Church. They are two different things and unfortunately some people are literally throwing the baby out with the bath-water.

    Life isnt black and white, except in it's existance. A thing is either alive or not.

    Those girls taking photos in the cloister in Maynooth are not showing a proabortion stance. They are showing a lack of respect for other people's beliefs. They'd not dare do that in a mosque.

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  11. Bishop Pat, your statement that procured abortion is the lesser of two evils is an honest one, but it does hold you morally culpable for your approval of this practice, albeit in certain limited circumstances. You recognise procured abortion as evil (this is honest), and yet, you are willing to be complicit in its execution. (This is not wisdom, for evil cannot produce good.)

    I am sorry to say this, but you, and goodness-knows-how many others, stand with Caiaphas in your belief that it is better one person should die than that another should perish.

    If only Christians invested as much energy in prayer, and belief in providential care, as they do in seeking human solutions to dilemmas which are not, in God's eyes, dilemmas at all, but opportunities for him to act...if only we allowed him to do so through belief in his goodness.

    People can claim they believe in God; that's relatively easy. But they do not truly believe in him unless they are willing to become his spiritual children, by handing over (surrendering) to him every difficulty, even (and especially) that of an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. This is much harder to do, since it involves letting go of oneself, of having the humility to accept that one is no longer in control (an illusion, anyway): that 'I must decrease, and he must increase'.

    This is humility in a nutshell: being willing to let go the frayed cord of self-reliance, and instead, allow oneself to become bound by total dependence on God, the state in which all the power of heaven and earth converge in the person.

    It is never wise to violate the divine law of universal, unqualified, and indiscriminate love. When we do so, we stand alone, for where there is no love for another (and procured abortion is not an act of love for the aborted), there is no divine presence, no divine power, no protection from the consequences of the evil we commit. Not because God is indulging in some otherworldly sulk, but because heart's door remains firmly shut in the divine face.

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    1. MC, as always I respect your views - and we occasionally differ.

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    2. Magna at 16.07. I hope Pat really understands your clarification. Pat blurs the reality of abortion. He is full of moral confusion on the horror of abortion. As always, he presents himself as standing for nothing! Bishop, my a**e.

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    3. Pat is not in favour of "abortion on demand" at any stage or abortion as a form of contraception.

      He is in favour of restricted abortion in cases medical necessity.

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    4. Pat at 17.44: You stand for abortion then Pat. You are morally confused. You compromise your Christian beliefs, principles and convictions all too easily on serious moral issues. Promote the sanctity and preciousness of the unborn child instead of the pitiful red herring arguments you place on this blog.

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    5. I am quite clear where I stand.

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    6. Magna! Today I am SO PROUD of you. What s wonderful comment. God bless and reward you whatever your problems... I am certain others will feel the same. A great contribution and right to the heart of the issue.. Prayer..trust.. humility.

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    7. Yes, I agree with 19.02. A wonderfully clear elucidation of thoughts from Magna.. Pat should read them over and over again. They will educate him both morally and spiritually. Despite my disapproval of Magna's comments at times, his comments at 16.07 are appropriate and enlightening.

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    8. It's a long time since I recited the Catholic catechism off by heart.

      I think for myself and make up my own mind.

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    9. Pat at 20 41: that's your problem. You think you are the source of all morality. You're not. You resolutely refuse to acknowledge the very wise, sensible and intelligent opinions of others. You rudely dismiss, caricature, mock and judge.

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  12. I feel the author of this blog has cynically introduced this topic for discussion today knowing it would create much heated debate = the comments prove that. He just wants publicity for his blog and increase the number of people who contribute to it because it has been rather lacklustre of late. The topic of abortion has been discussed umpteen times on this blog before, why so again? It's like flogging a dead horse, I know there is the Referendum coming up here but that's been in the pipeline for sometime now, so we all knew about it anyway. In the last few days this blog has gone from slandering a deceased Priest, the alleged sexual practices of D & C clergy and now on to abortion. You have certainly got people riled today on this topic but then again that was your cynical intention in the first place.

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    1. This blog has ALWAYS dealt with hot potrato issues and always will.

      No slander was committed as truth was told.

      I do not need publicity for myself or this blog.

      It is a well read blog and contains conflicting views by those who comment.

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    2. PS: This blog has had 3,835,660 visitors to date.

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    3. Slandering a deceased priest ? It's the least that could have happened to him ! There are instances in his past where he could have been prosecuted and put in jail and thrown out of the priesthood. Just because he is dead does not mean that the truth should not be told. He was a very lucky man not to have had his comfortable nesting priestly lifestyle interrupted by the judicial process ! I have no doubt that there was a good and generous side to him, but some of his behaviour was illegal and abusive. It is not slandering him to make reference to that side of his life, if we want to get a balanced picture of the man and his life and ministry. Remember, by his abuse he damaged others. My experience of dealing with people who have been damaged by the abusive actions of others is that they are severely and deeply damaged and it affects them adversely for life. What may have been a bit of fun to him will have been a life changing moment for the person he chose to abuse. So, please spare + Pat and the rest of us your moralising and sanctimonious objections.

      And then as to the matter of the referendum, it is perfectly sensible for the issue to be aired on this blog, controversial as it might be. To be honest, most people just seem to go off on one, without thinking the thing through properly and sensibly, rationally, and with faith. Have a go at doing that and you might be able to write something a bit more constructive.

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    4. 18:18 According to these self appointed "defenders of the faith" we are not allowed to criticise anything Catholic.

      They would still have us all slaves to Rome :-)

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    5. Surely that's unfair and OTT.

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    6. Pat 18.34. Cannyou ever accept the legitimate opinions, deeply held beliefs and moral integrity without always caricaturing them as Catholic taliban or defenders of the faith. That's insulting, offensive and ignorant. But we have come to expect nothing more from you. You have proven your flawed humanity in very nasty, hateful and objectionable ways. Mostly your views are anathema to the Christ you claim to own!

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  13. Predictable polarised comments today.
    If only the Catholic church could bring itself to protect the quality of life of the children its priests and institutions abuse.
    Pro-life my arse.

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  14. This is one of the saddest debates, and what ever the views are here pro-life or pro-choice, It doesn’t change the sad reality that women, mostly young women find themselves in. What ever anyone says society still condemns unmarried pregnant women, and it is often the Catholic Church and other women who condemn them most. And, until society changes this, we will still get the export of pregnant women, on lonely tragic journeys for abortions abroad, or what must be the saddest thing of all a home abortion with some internet bought pill. Whatever the result of eighth amendment this will not alter. These horrific scenarios do not bear thinking about and is so so sad. Also remember, for every aborted baby there is a father to that child who has walked away and washed his hands of his fatherhood, And until society starts to change it’s unspoken condemnation, and also teaches fathers of these babies to take full and long term responsibility for their babies this will carry on.

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    1. Yes there is a father "who has walked away" in sadly many instances. But there are also fathers who begged, begged begged on bended knee for their unborn child's life to be spared but the boat to England had already sailed...They were offering support and ongoing involvement but were marginalised with the words still ringing in their ears.... "It's MY body"... "I get to choose"...
      So yes, some fathers turn their backs.. Shame on them.. But there are others who are bereaved and feeling bereavement.

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    2. Casimir at 18.08. Your condemnation of fathers does not apply in all situations. There are many grieving fathers who would give anything to have their child but who are denied that oppirtunity because of the "my body, my choice" philosoohy. So, spare a thought for those men. Blaming the Catholic Church is passe. Young people don't take their morals from the Church. They make up their own morality: if it suits my needs, then it's ok!! We live in a very self obsessed world where anything that appears inconvenient can be discarded or in the case of an unwanted child, aborted. An unborn child should never be seen as disposable because of inconvenience or their dignity and humanity lessened because of physical/physioligical conditions. Look at a newly born child and reflect.... We should be guided by the uniqueness of their creation. Society surely must offer more life giving support and care to all women in difficult situations.

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    3. Anonymous 19:15 and 20:24. Yes there are the tragic cases of fathers whose support and love has been ignored and if this has happened to you, this must be unbearable, but this is not the norm by any means. My argument is not either pro-life nor pro-choice. What I am saying is that the endless arguments on both sides do you not address what is a huge problem, and will be on going whatever the outcome of the vote. It is this problem that needs to be understood and for much more more help and compassion to be given without judgement. We still as a society judge pregnant young women, who are so often, frightened, lonely and desperate.

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  15. MAGNA.. Please read poster at 19.02
    (I agree with them too)

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  16. Those slappers wouldn't be allowed to set foot in the cloisters of a proper seminary.

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    Replies
    1. They wouldn't do it in a mosque or synagogue.

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    2. Slappers ??????

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    3. I hate that word, 'slapper'. I suspect it is why, in largest part, vulnerable women, especially in censorious Ireland, sought abortions to avoid its attribution.

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    4. Seems they haven’t gone away either....the censorious ones.
      No wonder we have such horrendous comments against woman.

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    5. Yeah, those three are virgins, saving themselves for marriage.

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  17. 18.18
    Can you put this post on the previous blog, as it is lost forever here.
    Previous blog was so confusing and full of innuendo, why was that Pat?
    Were you afraid to tell us the truth, I for one hadn’t a clue was was going on as mostly I don’t understand homosexual language....like grandmother etc.
    If there was abuse, which it seems there was, let’s have the details.Please

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  18. I find that photo mocking our holy mother upsetting

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  19. I would love to have to have Fr. Brian Conlon's baby.....

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    Replies
    1. You're disgusting and without morals!

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  20. 18.18: I kind of agree with you. I remain confused as to what actually happened. Did GC offend, or is it just that people are linking the story to his death. Comments are a little confused. Pat's contributions are cryptic.
    People I know who read this blog have different interpretations.
    Pat - can we please have the full story?

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  21. In fact, it was Pat's post at 14.51 which was badly punctuated and constructed and therefore confusing: "It was in fact GC who became a curate in St. Peter's, Belfast in February 1983."
    Were you saying simply that GC became a curate, or that GC was the abuser? Simple question.

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