Tuesday, 16 January 2018

DIOCESES NOT PUBLISHING ANNUAL ACCOUNTS

MOST IRISH DIOCESES DO NOT PUBLISH ACCOUNTS ON THEIR WEBSITES


More than 60 % of the Catholic dioceses on the island of Ireland presented no financial information on their websites at all.
Patsy McGarry. Irish Times. Sun, Jan 14, 2018.




     
Almost two-thirds of the 26 Catholic dioceses in Ireland do not publish any financial details on their websites, a new survey has found.

The reverse is true in the US, where almost two-thirds of the 177 dioceses carry such details on their websites.




The Irish survey was carried out by We Are Church Ireland, a lay Catholic lobby group, which has called for greater transparency in diocesan finances.

A summary of the financial details of each diocese and other relevant charities in each are published on the Charities Regulatory Authority website.

However, the level of detail made available to parishioners on diocesan websites varies significantly.

The survey of the 26 Catholic dioceses on the island of Ireland found that 62 percent presented no financial information on their websites at all.

Only five Irish dioceses publish audited accounts on their websites: Down & Connor in Northern Ireland, Dublin, Elphin, Limerick, and Ossory.

A further five publish some financial details on their websites: Clogher, Cork and Ross, Ferns, Kildare and Leighlin, and Killala. None of the remaining 16 dioceses publish any financial details on their websites.

Only 58 percent of dioceses identified members of their finance committee on their websites.

The survey was carried out to compare against a recent poll by the US lay liberal Catholic group Voice of the Faithful, which showed that 34 percent of the 177 dioceses there did not include any financial information on their websites.

Commenting on the findings, Colm Holmes of We Are Church Ireland said, “Congratulations to Ossory, who top the table with their audited 2016 financial statements available on their website”.

“But it is disappointing to see Armagh in midtable, though we found a note on their website saying the proper publication of financial statements ... is a priority. Also disappointing is to see a large diocese like Meath at the bottom of the table.”

Pope Francis, he said, “has put a strong emphasis on financial reporting and transparency”.

“Strangely enough, Canon Law does not require financial reporting by dioceses. But with all monies for the church raised by donations from all the people of God over many centuries, surely in the 21st century, our dioceses should be publishing annual financial reports?”

In Ireland, the drive for financial reporting and transparency is being driven by the Charities Act 2009 and the UK Charities Acts 2008 and 2013 for Northern Ireland, which also apply to the dioceses as charities. There are also financial statements in the Companies Office covering many dioceses, parishes, and trusts.

“But in this day and age the website is the shop window for all organizations and that is where this information should be available in each diocese,” Mr. Holmes said.


------------------------------------------


PAT SAYS:


I do not have much faith in the Roman Catholic Church, either nationally or internationally, when it comes to being transparent about their monies and possessions.

When we see "published accounts" we are looking at the work of highly paid accountants - and we all know that highly paid accountants have great skills when it comes to presenting accounts.

It is like the old question - What is 2 + 2?

The mathematician tells you it is 4.

The Philosopher tells you it is a deep question that has to be explored.

Your solicitor and accountant say: "What would you like it to be"?


Take, for instance, the Diocese of Down and Connor in which I am situated.

Bishop Noel Treanor still refuses to make public whether his palace renovation cost £ 1 million or £4 million.



We are also told that Noel Treanor earns about £20,000 a year.

But how can you run a multi-million-pound palace and do all the international traveling he does, almost monthly, on £20,000 per annum?

I have spoken to priests and others who have visited Treanor's new palace, which is called CHATEAU NOEL by the clergy and they tell me it is better than any 5-star hotel they have even been in.

He even built a glass walkway so that he could walk from Chateau Noel to the diocesan offices with getting wet!

THE VATICAN:

We know that when the now disgraced Cardinal Pell took over Vatican finances he discovered hundreds of secret bank accounts with billions of euros in them.

And when the recently retired Cardinal Secretary of State left his job he spent a massive fortune on his new Vatican apartment with Euros 400,000 taken from a Rome baby hospital and with a Euro 50,000 kitchen - provoking Pope Francis to ask: "Is it made of gold"?

THE USA:

In New York, Cardinal Timothy Dolan transferred diocesan funds to a cemetery fund to stop victims of child abuse taking the money in lawsuits.

Several US retired archbishops spent millions on their retirement homes. 



I think that we would all be amazed if the Catholic Church in Ireland - dioceses and religious and honestly listed:

1. The total value of all their property and other holdings.

2. The total monies contained in ALL bank and other accounts. 

I must say I take all "published accounts" with a large grain of salt!



62 comments:

  1. To my mind, there is only one reason for such lack of transparency: embarrassment at likely public reaction (anger) to the way in which 'the pennies of the poor' are being spent by Roman Catholic clerics.

    Doesn't bother me, however: I wouldn't donate even one of those pennies to the institutional Catholic Church.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Magna, 00.21. What would you know about transparency, you who teade insults, racist remarks, hate language, prejudice and untruths in practically all your comments. Who cares what you think? Stay aloof and alone in your petty, small minded world.

      Delete
    2. Well, you care, otherwise you wouldn't have commented on my post. And it isn't the first you've commented on, is it?

      You just can't keep away, can you?😆

      Delete
    3. 12.41: Like you Magna, I'll comment when I feel like doing so but unlike you, I don't depend on this blog for feelings of affirmation or attention. I live in a real world of social interaction. That's what differentiates me from you.

      Delete
    4. Heaven above! I hope it's much more than this that differentiates us.😆

      Delete
    5. 18.45: Stay off the booze. You become demented, intolerant and stupid when you imbibe too much. There are good professional therapists who would be helpful to you Magna, if you had a little more self awareness.

      Delete
    6. A little more self-awareness, 22:05?. Why I'm aware of myself ALL of the time! Wouldn't you be of yourself had you my polymathic genius? But alas, you don't, do you?😆

      Delete
    7. 23.12. Mags, you're just amazing. Wonderful. The world acclaims you. Pity your humanity is lost and twisted. But God loves a trier.

      Delete
  2. Pat, the only person you believe in is yourself. All other relevant people or bodies are of no interest to you. Do you publish in full your huge income, source of that income, your expenses, your tax liability, your Oratory's status and income? Where is your transparency and honesty? Tell us what you receive from weddings, baptisms, funerals, mass offerings etc. For once be uofront and honest. Then you can criticise OTHERS. Otherwise you are a transparent hypocrite.Tony

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am not registered as a charity etc.

      The Oratory is a simple name for a small chapel and is NOT registered as a charity.

      I cannot afford an accountant.

      I an a private self employed person.

      Every year I tell the tax man what I earn in total.

      I do not promise people places in Heaven for money.

      Delete
    2. All priests are similarly defined as private self employed individuals and therefore should and are mandated to employ an accountant. Just has to be done Pat. And I don't believe you can't afford an accountant. Also in relation to your " marriage" status, where do you as a couple stand vis a vis the Revenue? Intersting to know the truth here!!!Or have you found loopholes????

      Delete
    3. Self employed people are NOT mandated to have an accountant.

      They ARE mandated to complete a self employed tax return completed by themselves or an accountant.

      This is what I do.

      My partner is self employed and pays his tax directly through PAYE.

      Sorry, no scandal there for you :-)

      Delete
  3. The disgraced Cardinal Pell!
    Are you acting as judge, jury and executioner?
    Is an allegation a conviction?
    Is he not entitled to the presumption of innocence prior to a verdict?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He is presumed innocent in law.

      But he has been disgraced.

      Or do you really think he will be back in the Vatican again?

      Delete
    2. If an allegation means automatic disgrace what is the need for a judicial process?

      Delete
  4. Why is Pat so interested in our Church? He has often stated that he is glad that he is no longer a member but that he is "independent". I have got a copy of the financial statements and report of my own parish

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And you really believe you know everything about your parishes money side?

      "Pull the other one. There's bells on it".

      Delete
    2. Well, this is the Auditor's Report and believe me, this particular auditor would not conceal anything untoward to do with RC matters in particular.

      Delete
  5. Your favourite place Pat, though the so-called full report isn't very full. https://charitiesregister.ie/org/325ecaa3-cc15-4b4b-968e-3de4efb0a2f3/saint-patricks-college

    ReplyDelete
  6. What are bellyaching on about. All the dioceses income and expenditure are on the Charities Regulatory Authority website.

    I put We are Church Ireland into Google images, and I suspected, a bunch of pensioners, mostly women.

    Why don't they join the Anglicans, where their manifesto has been implemented in full, not that it seems to be doing them any good.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Sexual misconduct and financial misdeeds are usually closely related, but I imagine most readers would prefer +Pat to focus on the former rather than the latter as its been a while since we had a good scandal. Looking forward to another bombshell soon.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a pathetic attitude @ 4.53

      Delete
  8. Such hypocrisy from "Pat says". You're simply looking for something yet again to undermine the Catholic Church. Under the Charities Act all Dioceses have to comply with very stringent conditions wbich they do. There is mo option but to comply as Revenue carry out audits regularly. So please inform yourself properly Pat before sowing misinformation, lies and spurious, self serving untruths. If you phone any Diocesan Finance Secretariat or any Parish Priest, all relevant informatiin will be given. The fact that some Dioceses may not have information on their website is not a crime, nor does it suggests anything untoward. So, don't always believe the journalist McGarry. He too has agendas...some of which are sinister.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then phone Lisbreen and ask them how much Noel Treanor's renovation cost.

      Then let us know what they told you :-)

      Delete
    2. Your concern for the dioceses not being more transparent is touching. Read http://www.churchsecurity.info/index_files/Page365.html and understand that the Church cannot be trusted with money. This study by Voice of the Faithful found that 80% of dioceses in the US don't give a toss about the widows dime

      Delete
    3. 11.14. Get over your jealousies Pat. Go and do something useful. This repetitive topic, covered so often, shows how pathetic a life you luve. Ask the Tax Regulatory Authority if yiu have concerns about any Diocese's finances. You won't find any faults. Find the truth before you rush to malicious innuendo.

      Delete
  9. Am I commenting for the sake of commenting today. I suppose I am. Today's blog states the obvious

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Sean.. Yes, today's topic is yet more water under the bridge. It is like being asked to savour yet again yesterday's old dried-up fried egg.

      Delete
  10. As a matter of interest Pat how does one make a complaint about a Bishop and his cohort to the big boys or boy above them.

    Its time for Noel to get a boot up the bavk side should the powers that be warrant it.
    Does the compliant go to Okolo or to some insane office that covered in cobb webbing in the holy vatican.

    I've waited long enough to not let Noels dealings with me seem like sour grapes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm sorry to have to tell you that the only REAL way to hold someone like Treanaor accountable is to:

      1. Make what he did to you public.

      2. Take legal action against him in the courts - which will also be public.

      The so called big boys will always back him - unless he did something really bad and it is MADE PUBLIC.

      Delete
    2. 11.29 Get sound advice. Protect your own sanity. I hope society has evolved enough to treat you seriously and with respect whatever the outcome

      Delete
    3. The complaint goes to whoever you send it to. So you need to research the exact postal address and post a formal letter.
      Never rely on the insecurity and informality of email. (It is not usually taken that seriously when from an unknown and rightly so! If something is important to you, then take the time and trouble to word an excellent and unabusive well-worded good letter. Then you WILL be taken seriously. This is where most complainants make their first error..)
      Always keep a dated photocopy of formal correspondence.
      This is a sincere effort to help you.

      Delete
    4. Pope Francis sacked a German Bishop because of his Palace. the one to write to is Cardinal Marc Outlett at the Vatican congregation for Bishops and copy the Papal nuncio in it. This has all to Stop under Pope Francis worth a try.

      Delete
  11. My aunt died. For the year before her passing the local PP was fastidious in his attendance to her spiritual needs. She seldom seen him before he found out she was terminally ill.
    After she died we were told that her whole estate,including her house which sold for £170k was left to the parish.
    At the end of that year the parish published its ‘accounts”
    Under the section legacies and bequests a few hundred pounds was mentioned. Nothing of my aunts estate!
    My sister challenged the PP who told her that it all went to a central fund in the diocese. Let me say I have no doubt that there
    was criminal action on the PP part. It was the snide and underhand way the diocese ‘hid’ the fact that it had
    Received such a substantial legacy.
    Taught me a lot about the financial workings of the Catholic Church.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I once read of a similar thing in Scotland, but the daughter made a big fuss about it. I can’t remember if the courts were involved, but the Church eventually handed it over to her.

      Delete
    2. Even if it went to the diocese rather than the parish that would be illicit. Write to the probate office and report the matter together with a copy of your aunts will and the parish accounts. Also report the matter to the charities regulator seeking an explanation as to where the funds went.

      Delete
    3. To poster @ 15.01
      Condolences on the death of your aunt (RIP)
      You can request a copy of the diocese fund report where substantial legacies appear.(It would have been a courtesy to offer it to you by default but that would depend very much on whether there was provision in your aunt's bequest for who, if anyone, was to be informed. As it happened, you already knew about the bequest but remember many benefactors request that their decision and gift be kept extremely confidential. In cases of doubt, confidentiality is the norm.)
      You can certainly make your concerns known and chase this up. You need to be prepared, however, to discover that you were not in complete possession of the facts regarding who/what was included in your aunt's final decision. It may not be as simple as you think.
      This is our best advice in this anonymous situation.

      Delete
  12. 12.13 it’s time you knew that there are many many more widows than widowers.
    So this widow has stopped funding this corrupt church

    ReplyDelete
  13. The writer at 15.01 tells an interesting tale. We had exactly the same experience with my late mother. Luckily she mentioned to us that her ParishPriest was trying to convince her that making a bequest in favour of the church was a good idea. My sister didn’t share his view and told him so quite forcibly. From that moment my mother never set eyes on the PP again. The curate attended her until death and officiated at her funeral. Spoke volumes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, it does speak "volumes" and readers(especially the unbiased ones) can decipher their own viewpoints on why the curate took over the pastoral duties at this household.

      Delete
  14. What I dont get is how a diocese can be both a registered charity and a registered limited company at the same time. This allows a diocese the best of both scenarios and the liability of neither.

    It is far past the time that the State recognise Churches as companies and priests/nuns/brothers as employees.

    ReplyDelete
  15. No, no! It is entirely possible and not uncommon for an organisation to be both a registered charity and a limited company. There are certain legal reasons why it is far more protective and very much the best option to do that.
    It increases the responsibility of the Trustees towards its members but gives certain types of security and reassurance if the organisation ever ran into serious financial difficulties or faced disbandment.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Responsibilities to it's members? Are you for real. In the legal world what registeted charitable diocese has declared it's laity to be members that the Trustees are responsible for?

      Are the trustees of Maynooth legally responsible for the seminarian members?? No. Is a charity? Yes

      Delete
    2. Yes, I AM "for real" as you so rudely put it @poster 19.15

      I should be! It's my profession.

      Delete
    3. @20.29
      Your profession to protect the institution. Shame on you.

      Delete
    4. Absolute nonsense @ 22.58!
      Completely unwarranted nonsense on a situation you know nothing about.

      Delete
  16. Prof. Michael Conway of Maynooth used to say, from his days as a curate in Galway, that if the clergy told all that they knew about the Gardai and if the Gardai told all they knew about the clergy, it would be mutually assured destruction.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It doesn't surprise me in the least that Conway would make such a deeply cynical comment, insulting both the Gardai and the clergy in one sentence.

      Delete
  17. There seems to be a thread between policemen and clergy when it comes to gay sex too. What about these Irish clerics in Rome playing around with the carabinieri?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Yea, and do you remember someone reported on here last year that Clifford drove into the rear end of a woman's car and fled the scene, somewhere in co Limerick. He was tracked down and when the young garda called to his house in Thurles, he saw the damaged car out front. He asked Clifford if he had been involved in an accident and he denied it and even denied that the car was damaged. The young garda was soon told by higher ups to drop it. That was the end of the matter. The poor woman was told not to pursue it either for her own sake. We hear alcohol was to blame, not his Grace the archbollox of Cashel.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 20.17. Disgusting lies. And an ignorant comment.

      Delete
    2. We do not condone that behaviour in the Gardai. @20.17 Be careful of slander.

      Delete
    3. @20.43
      I didn't post the originsl comment above but its true. Clifford was also off the road for a good while due to drink. His reputation preceeds him.

      I reckon he drinks because he cant face his conscience after what he covered up in Kerry for Casey.

      Delete
    4. Ive heard about clifford doing that before but not that the gardai so facilitated it. At the end of the day if the gardai acted that way the ombudsman would fix it. As for clifford, sounds like the type of action he would do.

      Delete
    5. The history of the Diocese of Cashel and Emly between the years 1988 and 2014, when many clergy left, has yet to be written.

      Delete
    6. This was all pre ombudsman. Clifford was in Cashel a long time, don't forget.

      Delete
    7. He did a lot of damage in Cloyne during his short stint there too. Rumor has it that it was supposed to be his brother who go the hat.

      Delete
  19. How is John Magee enjoying retirement? No premature death announcement this week, no?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A vicious and unnecessary comment.

      Delete
  20. Did John Mages have a relative called Dympna who was employed as a faith facilitator?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anyone see Nationwide yesterday evening featuring the Dominicans in Newbridge and Dublin? Interesting programme.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Can anyone shed more light on the parish in Limerick diocese where 90,000 old punts vanished? The new pp found that his predecessor was a bit of a magician, able to make parish funds vanish into his own account. It was a rural Limerick parish but I'd love to know which one and who the culprit was.

    ReplyDelete