Thursday, 11 January 2018

MAYNOOTH CLOSING!!!



THE TABLET. 10.1.2017
In August 2016, Maynooth was engulfed by a scandal involving seminarians and the gay dating app Grindr
The President of Ireland’s national seminary has warned that it will have to change if it is to survive, adding that he is working with the seminary’s trustees to introduce a number of far-reaching changes to its model of formation and structures.
FANNY MULLANEY

Reverend Professor Michael Mullaney - who took up his post at St Patrick’s College, Maynooth, in September – told The Tablet that he is working with the trustees, who include the four archbishops and up to 13 diocesan bishops, on developing a new model of training for seminarians.
“Maynooth has to change – the seminary has to change. You have to be flexible, otherwise, we are going to sink,” Fr Mullaney stressed. “Maynooth cannot just be self-preserving…We can’t be fixed in what was or what worked before – that is not the way forward.”
In August 2016, Maynooth was engulfed by a scandal involving seminarians and the gay dating app Grindr. The story came to light when Archbishop Diarmuid Martin admitted he had removed Dublin’s seminarians from Maynooth and sent them to study at the Irish College in Rome. He expressed concerns over “strange goings-on” and a “poisonous” atmosphere at the Co Kildare college.  
Professor Mullany is considering a plan which would see future trainee priests spend a large part of each of their six years of training based in parishes away from the college with a more community-based input from “a good pastor/parish priest formator and with a team of lay people around him” so that seminarians are formed both in the parish and in the seminary and “the two are in very close contact”.
Other changes in the pipeline could see a bespoke formation house built on campus to cater for a smaller numbers of trainee priests.
“In the future, the seminary will be more autonomous as a house of formation based in Maynooth with its own rector and seminary staff and students, whether that is five, ten or fifteen.”
Following an international conference on priestly formation in Maynooth last November, the Irish Church, in line with the Vatican, is now emphasizing quality not quantity in its candidates for the priesthood.
“It is not the numbers we should be concerned about, it is getting the admissions process right and admitting the best,” the President of Maynooth stressed.
Already some changes are in train with the introduction of a pre-seminary propaedeutic year which Fr Mullaney said: “will help candidates discern if priesthood is the right thing for them.”
Nine of those who began their studies for the priesthood in the autumn are currently undertaking this year at locations in Ireland and Spain.
Asked about the future of Maynooth in light of the smaller seminary numbers, Professor Mullaney said: “The simple answer is we are managing a transition in the seminary because we don’t know where the landing point with numbers is going to be.”
At the moment, there are 36 resident seminarians in Maynooth and 25 non-resident seminarians, this latter cohort is another new facet of the changing structures at Maynooth because in the past all seminarians were fully resident.

PAT SAYS:
Reading between the lines of Fanny's interview with The Tablet is the loud and clear message: MAYNOOTH IS CLOSING!
Of course, people like Fanny and the Irish bishops will never admit that the GRINDR scandal of 2016 was the last straw that broke the camel's back and spelled the end of GAYNOOTH.

With the exception of Diarmuid Martin, who has his own dark agenda, the bishops talked about supporting and saving Maynooth. That was only PR. They all knew that Maynooth was dead in the water.
In the past 20+ years, Maynooth seminary has become one of the better known gay cruising areas in Ireland - and any seminarian going in there was certain to be sexually propositioned within hours or days and bedded within 72 hours.
Straight seminarians and gay seminarians who did not want to be sexually active did not have a snowball's chance in Hell. If they were not intimidated out by the gay cabal they were soon despatched by staff members with various serious psychological problems.
Maynooth had become the best little gay whore house in Ireland.
Even this current announcement by Mullaney is not telling us the whole truth.
They are going to build a new purpose-built seminary. What is that?
They are going to build a small building to house the dwindling numbers of seminarians.
Seminarians will be sent out to work with pastors.
What if those pastors are also members of the gay mafia that every diocese now has?
Will the straight and celibate gay seminarian not be landed out of the frying pan into the fire?

The problem is that the Roman Catholic priesthood is now almost exclusively a gay profession.
The cure for that is to attract more non-gay men into the priesthood - preferably men who are a little older and have a proven record of not been gay men.
It's a bit like the attempt to reform the police force in Northern Ireland from consisting of mainly Protestant, Unionist, Loyalist members to being a mixture of Protestants and Catholics.
MY ADVICE TO FANNY AND THE BISHOPS:

1. Don't build your new seminary in Maynooth - a place that will forever be associated with GRINDR and the promiscuous gay culture.
2. Petition Rome to actively seek out more mature, heterosexual husbands and fathers to become priests. In other words: do POSITIVE ORIENTATION DISCRIMINATION in the interim.
3. In priestly training - place the emphasis on men's FAITH and PRAYER LIFE rather than on academics!





161 comments:

  1. One only needs to consider the quality of priests appointed as formation staff to know the quality of PP seminarians will be assigned to live with and shadow.

    The Trustees will do anything and everything except for two things; 1. Admit they were wrong, 2. Apologise.

    Clearly all the reform of Dermot Farrell was a pointless failure. So why was he rewarded despite having failed so badly that Maynooth is closing.

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  2. Sort of a non-story. Smaller numbers of candidates and a move away from traditional seminary formation fully explain this move. Meanwhile there are lots of lay men and women studying Theology in Maynooth, and they will power the Irish Church in the future.

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    1. You miss the point. The essence of the story is the question of context.

      The context if the recent history. Maynooth could have worked but for the recent Strange Goings On being mismanaged. It was mismanaged because there is a rot caused by the Trustees' defensiveness and lack of humility in accepting that something went wrong.

      The strange goings on were at one level acceptable. In a strange context people will do strange things. Had the situation been appropriately responded to with time out for the people involved rather than time out for the people who reported it then nothing would really have been strange. Instead the people who acted strangely were given license to repeat their actions and a culture grew up. Suddenly young men experimenting became a brothel-like way of life. It was the failure to appropriately respond that resulted in the destruction of Maynooth.

      So to come back to you point, it is not that Maynooth is moving away from Traditional seminary; rather the Trustees finally recognized that Maynooth moved away from Traditional seminary some time ago.

      Moreover the continuing problem of Trustee defensiveness remains, as evidence by the subterfuge hiding the current actions, or attempting thereto.

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  3. Fr Mullaney said: “... will help candidates discern if priesthood is the right thing for them.”!!!!

    I always understood that it was God who did the calling and the 'candidate' decided whether or not to respond to that call. So this is no longer a vocation but a career choice? This is the end, folks, it's all over. If religious 'experts' have forgotten who calls a man to the priesthood then it's now at about social worker status. 'I wanna be helpful and,like, I'm probably gay', 'Please come in and meet the fellas'

    I recall entering the office of a social worker and seeing a sign on her wall saying 'Whatever situation you find yourself in, it's not your fault'. This should be placed upon every confessional box with the added words 'so go away'. We are all victims and no-one does anything wrong, we all go to heaven so this earthly test is pointless.

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    1. OTT reaction!

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    2. Please come in and meet the girls you mean.

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    3. That about sums it up unfortunately.

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    4. NO! - - NOT "the girls"
      ,please!
      For once and for all, will you please stop this childish schoolboy thing of describing a weak man as "a girl"!!
      Have you still not realised how insulting that is to the female gender? (-- particularly to the strong and able women who read this blog) It certainly wouldn't be allowed in any well-run lay workplace these days and rightly so..

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  4. Hi Pat. Maybe the Roman church should take a look at how the Church of England run their seminaries. Their seminaries are very good. Open, welcoming, where men and women can train for the priesthood without worrying about any gay cabals etc which has seemed to have taken over Maynooth.

    Can you help me with this question? Why does the Roman Catholic Church attract gay men to their priesthood? In the Church of England this is not really an issue, as we have married clergy, single clergy, celibate clergy, and yes gay clergy, many who live celibate lives and contribute so much to the Church of England. Why is the Roman church a magnet for gay men, when it is a church which called homosexuality "disordered"? I never understood this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The RCC, attracts all types of men into formation.
      So if I may be bold enough to rephrase your question, why do the seminaries only allow gay men to stay?

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    2. 01.14 Donald Cozzens has written many books on the subject.

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    3. Why is it called the Church of England when so few people in England attend its churches? Or is that a vulgar question?

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    4. The CofE has plenty of gin and lace clergy, not forgetting the naughty vicars who used to enliven the News of the World.

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    5. And term 'pulpit pooves' was orginally coined by the Sun for Church of England vicars. I imagine it still applies.

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    6. Don't forget the lezzers, now that the Anglicans have lady vicars.

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    7. John King, no harm to you, bud, but you sound like a right feckin eejit.

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    8. Why am I an "eejit"? Trying to understand how the Roman church seems to be filled mainly with gay clergy, in a church which calls them "disordered".

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    9. Speaking from a stance of a church which finds them ordered. Enjoy your double figure congregation. LOL

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    10. 21:51, at least they attend because they want...unlike Catholics, who are too shit scared not to attend.

      (Wonder which Jesus prefers.)

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    11. I attend daily Mass because I really want to.. I am not scared of anything..

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  5. "They are going to build a new purpose-built seminary. What is that?"

    A cathouse.

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    Replies
    1. Wasting more money! They have a perfectly good building there already. The actual building isn't the problem. The stupidity takes my breath away!

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    2. The National Cathouse for Ireland.

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    3. will the cathouse have pontifical status. will grindr LTD sponsor it?

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  6. I cannot believe that yet more of the laity's money will be spent on another building in Maynooth at the same time as huge buildings are rented out to the secular Maynooth university. Mullaney's poverty of ambition is appalling - the new building will house 5, 10 or 15. Is priesthood finished in post-Vatican II Ireland. As for the lay theology undergrads (aka trainee RE teachers), shall we tell people on their deathbeds that they are coming out to them to perform the Last Rites?

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  7. Maynooth as a great big building may have to close. A more parish centred approach is excellent. Thing is human nature is still the same. If some priests in parishes are doing gay people a disservice who's to say some new seminarians may not follow.

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  8. The bishops and archbishops will be thanking +Pat for helping them with any decision to close this antiquated seminary.

    However, I am not sure the Catholic priesthood will appeal to many “mature, heterosexual husbands and fathers”. It’s hard to understand why it still appeals to so many queens, who are obviously not suited to a life of celibacy.

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    Replies
    1. Money and a comfortable lifestyle
      And good acting skills

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    2. Really poster catch yourself on about last rites on a death bed
      If you live your life as best you can, what more would you want.
      Yes nice for last rites fo4 those that have remained faithful to all the teachings, they deserve being prayed over if that is what they had expected would happen
      But for the many ,many who justlike to be good Christian in their work and daily life....dont worry about whether a priest or other prays over you as you die....and what’s wrong with a layperson doing this.

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    3. Catholic teaching is that if you die in a state of mortal sin, unshriven, you cannot enter heaven. Lay people, even Maynooth educated RE teachers, cannot absolve. If you don't believe this stuff be honest and say you are not a Catholic.

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    4. 11.22
      And Catholic teaching has never stated that Hell is populated by even a single human being.

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    5. 10.39 I can only agree. As someone who functions as a priest I can only say my head is far more settled than it was years ago. Being married has helped immensely. My wife was the one who pointed out I missed ministry. However every person and priest are different. One size does not fit all

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    6. I am Catholic, I do go to mass, but I’m not bothered if I die suddenly as I’m now much older...and every day is a bonus.
      I did say in my post that if a person
      Iives as a Christian...that being work for your crust and NoT commit sin...dying without the last rites is no big deal.
      I do not believe that getting a priest to pray over you at end of life....and you telling him you committed a big sin....is going to get you anywhere.
      And by the way why do you mention Maynooth teachers, many would not want anyone connected to Maynooth within a beagles goul of them.

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    7. Jesus warned about Hell a right few times, but of course Dominical teachings matter not a jot in the Glorious Age of Francis, peace be upon him.

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    8. "... will be thanking Pat..."!!
      They certainly won't.
      They do not acknowledge that he has done the Church any favours whatsoever.

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    9. 11:22, 'cannot enter heaven' is an unfortunate phrase, since it suggests that God willingly rejects those who wish 'to enter' Heaven in a state of 'mortal sin'.

      God rejects no one: we reject him. It is this rejection which is, truly, 'mortal sin', not necessarily a particular moral act.

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    10. 11.22. Cannot enter heaven. No human being can legislate or control that dimension of reality. Thinking on can is the sad result of generations of conditioning. Saying that religion controls God is a form of magic PS Happy New Year

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    11. As ever, I'll obey your teachings. Thank you.

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  9. It is very sad that it has taken a lost decade of genuine vocations for the bishops to finally step out of their smoke filled Amsterdam hash house and finally breathe in the fresh air of the real world and take corrective action regarding the comedy, parody, international farce that Ireland's main seminary has become.

    Fanny is playing the concerned rector a little late in the game. No doubt he has the purple hat in his sights. Don't forget that Fanny oversaw the expulsion of many a fine candidate for the priesthood while protecting the worst of the worst. Byrne, Puck, Derwin, Horny Andy, Marshall, Sheehan, Gannon, and all the others under Fanny's wings...

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    1. Fanny was part of the problem and now he's offering the solution. He was appointed on a three year term. The grotesque carnival will be over. The two or three new seminarians every year will go to Rome. Maynooth university will take over all the ex-seminary buildings, which it's long wanted to do, in returning for absorbing the faculty of theology, which will become non-denominational. This will ensure the continued supply of RE teachers. That's how it will end.

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    2. That dispiriting list demonstrates acute lack of judgement by the Maynooth authorities. Unless, worryingly, they knew exactly what they were doing in advancing these men to the priesthood.

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    3. More like decades of lost vocations. Mgr Cremin exposed the degradation of Maynooth back in the 1970s. His Irish Independent articles about it are online.

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    4. 11:33 - The faculty of Theology is already non-denominational...It's certainly not Catholic anyway!

      11.43 - Yes, I believe they knew exactly what they were doing...Just as they knew exactly what they were doing in destroying countless good and genuine vocations.

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  10. Can divorced husbands, straight or gay, or dissolved civil partnerships, still qualify for the priesthood? I wonder.

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    1. In my view, yes.

      In Rome's view? Probably not!

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    2. Technically, in Rome's view, of those mentioned at 11:31, only the divorced heterosexual husband whose Church marriage had not yet been annulled would be barred from ordination. The others would need to make a good confession and would be required to demonstrate their capacity to remain genuinely celibate and chaste for the rest of their lives.

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    3. How many bishops and priests remain genuinely celibate and chaste all their lives?

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    4. Exactly and for a poster to talk about a mortal sin needing forgiven so that one can enter heaven.
      What is mortal sin ?say a priest having gay or heterosexual sex after taking a vow of celibacy?
      Is it only lay people who commit mortal sin?

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    5. @12:11 Not many if Keith O'Brien is an example. He was still active, apparently, into his seventies. Mind you, I think he was an extreme example.

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  11. Good riddance to Maynooth, a byword for vice, cruelty, wrecked lives, drunkenness, Grindr and loss of faith. RIP.

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  12. Maynooth lay student12 January 2018 at 12:19

    Can we please lay off Prof Mullaney? Although his closest colleagues run him down behind his back, and contemporaries deride his decision to get holy cards printed for his acoylte institution maybe it's time that his ill-judged decisions about Puck were put to rest. The man has the not easy task of being the last President of Maynooth. Let him enjoy his last couple of years there in peace.

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    1. Lol Enjoy...don’t know the man,didn’t know people were at him
      I don’t bother reading all that tittle tattle.
      But for you to say....let him enjoy.
      Surely if one is in a responsible job,they take their responsibilities seriously..don’t waste others money and be kind to those you care for.and most of all be a competent caretaker and educator.
      If he isn’t then he needs to get out now...not in 3 years

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    2. There is absolutely no reason why a person cannot enjoy his job even though it is difficult and exacting. In fact, it is a well-known fact that supervisors who really enjoy their job are far easier to work for. They see their leadership role as a need to be inspiring and support to everyone around them and they arrive in the morning with a smile on their faces instead of the opposite gloom and doom.

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    3. Mullanney has no idea of the real world. He'd not last in it yet he preps men to go there.

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    4. Never been a PP yet prepares future PPs lol. Same with Prior.

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    5. Mullaney, Connolly, Prior, Ahern, Clancy hadn't been as much as as curate, yet they determined who would be the next curates. What a cheek!

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    6. But Donal O'Neill had been a curate and he was worse than all of the above.

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    7. Fair point 09:16. The patients at the Bons hospital in Galway are under his TLC. Lucky them!

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    8. Ahern was the worst.

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  13. +Pat, Maynooth is advertising for a Professor of Moral Theology. When I saw that I thought satire had died. Why don't you throw your pointy hat into the ring? The job was supposed to go to Hughie Connolly but that was before his forced retirement to Paris.

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    Replies
    1. But Pat has claimed again and again that he is no longer a member of the RC Church. So how could he possibly be eligible for any such position in it?

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    2. Rumour has it that Connolly is applying for that position and will get It!

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    3. Doubtful rumour. Cut in salary would be too much to take.

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    4. A soft sinecure in Paris Vs Prof Moral Theology in soon closing Maynooth. No choice.

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  14. So they are going to close the big poison house and build a smaller poison house? Get rid of the sources of poison, starting with Fanny...

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  15. You couldn't make this stuff up. The former VP now Rector is involved in the overhaul (shutting down?) of Gaynooth?

    Mullaney should have been immediately stood down on grounds of dereliction of duty in 2016 along with Connolly, Prior and Collins, and they - not the formation system - should have been subjected to rigorous interrogation and examination as to their gross incompetence and irresponsibility.

    The constantly named and pictured seminarians here are really just victims of a sinister agenda to destroy the church in Ireland.

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  16. For all the wishful thinking dimwits contributing today on this blog - Maynooth is not closing! Read the article more clearly and stop this stupidity that it's closing. Just shows the imbeciles who contribute to this crap blog.

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    1. Ha ha mafioso member...your little poison parties are coming to an end. Go out and work for a living. Or maybe 14:07 could be Queen Fanny herself!!! Gday my lady your royal lowness of the low...

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    2. 15.10. Your shallow, ignorant rant and attemp at humour is a reflection of your "lowness" of intelligence and awareness. Laughable.

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    3. Maynooth is finished. Yes, it will be a needlessly slow and protracted death; however, the end is now nigh for St. Patrick's Seminary which now represents nothing but diametrical opposition to what Ireland's patron saint believed, taught and lived.

      May God precipitate the day when those creaky doors on St Mary's are chained and locked for good. And may not one more young man be destroyed in that den of iniquitous debauchery.

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  17. Best news I have heard in years Pat. Good luck and good riddance to that dirty kip of a seminary.

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  18. Pat, take another look at Brendan Marshall.

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    Replies
    1. I agree.

      Justice for Conan

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    2. One look at Brendan Marshall is enough. I'm a recruitment manager at a leading headhunter, and I never recruit chubsters, especially if they are young. It indicates a lack of drive, low self-esteem, laziness when it comes to exercise, poor self-control over food, a disrespect to customers who want an attractive server, deviousness (secret eating)

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  19. Somebody on the blog asked the question--Why did Maynooth in more recent years begin to favour and try to retain at all costs, their gay students? I will answer that if I may.
    Here is why it happened.
    It was a naive backlash on the part of the Maynooth Staff to counteract the situation in the Church at the time when many heterosexual priests eg Fr Dallat were having affairs with women in their parishes and many with their resident housekeepers (Every parochial house had a resident female housekeeper in those times) So the idea grew prevalent that if a priest was quietly and secretly gay he would be immune to these females and the affairs problem would be solved!! Hence gay applicants were especially welcome.
    But it was an immature and naive "solution" which caused more problems than it solved. It was also grossly unfair to many heterosexual candidates as readers here know.
    I have no agenda one way or another.
    I merely answer the question.

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    1. My goodness weren’t t those men in charge silly and completely ignorant....and they lost so many good and holy men

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    2. Yes, you're correct!( @ poster 15.30 and also @ 16.25)

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  20. 15.30: Such utter rubbish. An awful, unintelligible analysis with no clinical research, surveys, psychological insights to validate your judgment. What makey up, silly sociology. A crap contribution. "Back then" analysis but utterly meaningless. Go and read proper psychology, sociology and psychiatry. Inform yourself clearly.

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    1. On the contrary, poster @ 16.39

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    2. So you poster @ 16.39 go into berserk overdrive because you don't like what you hear?
      Of course, the calm analysis of poster @15.30 is correct.
      He/she doesn't need to quote Wikipedia at us or any homespun psychology books.
      We know the truth when we hear it.
      He/she was obviously completely aware of what was unfolding and in a good position to simply answer the question succinctly without patronising us with a psychology lecture. This was done. So luckily other informed readers here will appreciate that and we won't need to descend to your dreadful rudeness.

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    3. Wise up @ 16.39

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    4. 17.14 and 16.39. Both of you should also do some professional research before spouting such utter crap. TRUTH Is important, not the shallow, unconvincing and flawed thinking you present. I have every competence as a research psychology/sociology student. I arrive at conclusions and insights on clinical data and on contemporary,professional and verifiable studies, not the easy soundbytes of morons. Sorry if I disturb your ignorance! If you read 15.30 with a broader lens you may arrive at my judgment. It is so facile, baseless and infantile a comment!

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    5. Useless nonsense from 19.40..
      Sorry... but it is..
      Are we all meant to be impressed by you?. Afraid not. Do you honestly think there are no people - - daily readers here.. who haven't credentials a lot more impressive than a mere student who has suddenly discovered - - wait for it,guys! - - research!

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    6. Wise up, poster 19.40.
      Show offs are so tedious.

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  21. If Mullaney thinks that there will be 5, 10 or 15 seminarians in the future all the bishops need do is buy a few houses in one of the Maynooth housing estates and sell the big barracks to Maynooth University. I hope they get a good price for it, considering the millions spent on the place, including the college chapel which is locked apart from a few days a year.

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  22. Yeah.. that was exactly it, as poster 15.30 says... If the candidate was gay he was judged to be less likely to be start a relationship with the housekeeper or some woman in his first parish. But the Maynooth authorities hadn't banked on the effect of a whole corridor of gays closed up together for a number of years! As you say @ 15.30 it was naive beyond words.. What the hell did they think would happen!

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  23. Shocking news from Germany, whose bishops are cheerleaders of Francis and firm believers in the Spirit of Vatican II. Similar large scale closures will surely follow in Ireland and the UK. http://m.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/german-catholic-and-protestant-churches-sell-off-church-buildings-a-883054-2.html

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  24. Strange in the extreme Pat that you'd wish to advise a body that does nothing but hurt those in its charge.

    Your point (1) on location doesn't stand up excuse the pun because grindgr and sexual diversity is everywhere and it was not grindrs fault for tge evil strange goings on in Maynooth. As a straight married man you probably disrespect those of the gay set who use such dating sites. However the exposure of so called celibate men of God who use it Grindr for sinful purposes is undoubtly correct.

    Your point (2) Advise the Pope in Rome you might aswell be talking to the captain of the Titanic. Lets face it he's coming to Ireland not to strengthen the family but further break it up with restrictions. Never mind the fact that taking advice from you would only seem to him and them as taking advice from Satan himself. After all the Swiss guard have your picture in place to stop on sight should you show up for tea and scones. As for tge advice on hetrosexual mature married men from experience they would rather have them as compliant servants to meet the clerical need. Hetrosexual men married or not live in the real world with all its complications. If anything was right about your proposal it should have been geared to both sexes all, orientations and the pulling down if the celibate walls of division. On the understanding of course if a person wanted to be celibate then fine let them fill their boots.

    Your point (3) the most sensible thing Ive heard said today, but in the worlds of men and God it is always going to be a situation of qualification to be and needing Theology this, Moral that and Canon law the other.
    I could be seen as being everything that you point out about prafer life, faith and much much more but likely even in the Independent Catholic Church I'd probably only get as far as ligting the candles.
    As I said to a group of Protestant ministers and Catholic clergy nothing will change until honesty and true love become part of the solution.

    As for anyone to say that they will discern if a vocation is there or not, what a hateful thing to do and say and from personal experience to suffer from. God tells me I've a vocation and I have to say that its currently not with the Roman church even though I am very Catholic by nature.

    Down scaling from Maynooth is a good thing. Maybe Noel will put the troops up in his palace or fully occupy the Seminarians palace on the Cliftonville road.

    Maybe When the Pope visits MAYNOOTH as a past one did to talk about the family he might lead the way and say that Gays, Lesbians, Transgenders, Transexuals are all welcome in the family of Christ with honest conviction.

    I'vesaid before that the faithful truly do not give a toss about the strange goings on or otherwise as they don't want to taint themselves with hatred thoughts. I believe that the true faithful accept everybody for wjo or what they are.

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    1. Big Hank at 19.05, more garbage, unintelligible, very poorly articulated and utter waffle. You make no sense whatsoever and if you think you have a "vocation" you should consider the Mormons!! Or some deserted ranch monastery growing vegetables! You'd be a disaster in a public space if your gramnar, sentiments, muddy thinking and flawed analysis are anything to go by. Why don't you join the Little Bros of the Oratory, of whom we hear little, or be Pat's housekeeper in Larne....but please, spare us your senseless ramblings.

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    2. I don’t think the Mormons would take Hank the Plank.

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  25. Strange in the extreme Pat that you'd wish to advise a body that does nothing but hurt those in its charge.

    Your point (1) on location doesn't stand up excuse the pun because grindgr and sexual diversity is everywhere and it was not grindrs fault for tge evil strange goings on in Maynooth. As a straight married man you probably disrespect those of the gay set who use such dating sites. However the exposure of so called celibate men of God who use it Grindr for sinful purposes is undoubtly correct.

    Your point (2) Advise the Pope in Rome you might aswell be talking to the captain of the Titanic. Lets face it he's coming to Ireland not to strengthen the family but further break it up with restrictions. Never mind the fact that taking advice from you would only seem to him and them as taking advice from Satan himself. After all the Swiss guard have your picture in place to stop on sight should you show up for tea and scones. As for tge advice on hetrosexual mature married men from experience they would rather have them as compliant servants to meet the clerical need. Hetrosexual men married or not live in the real world with all its complications. If anything was right about your proposal it should have been geared to both sexes all, orientations and the pulling down if the celibate walls of division. On the understanding of course if a person wanted to be celibate then fine let them fill their boots.

    Your point (3) the most sensible thing Ive heard said today, but in the worlds of men and God it is always going to be a situation of qualification to be and needing Theology this, Moral that and Canon law the other.
    I could be seen as being everything that you point out about prafer life, faith and much much more but likely even in the Independent Catholic Church I'd probably only get as far as ligting the candles.
    As I said to a group of Protestant ministers and Catholic clergy nothing will change until honesty and true love become part of the solution.

    As for anyone to say that they will discern if a vocation is there or not, what a hateful thing to do and say and from personal experience to suffer from. God tells me I've a vocation and I have to say that its currently not with the Roman church even though I am very Catholic by nature.

    Down scaling from Maynooth is a good thing. Maybe Noel will put the troops up in his palace or fully occupy the Seminarians palace on the Cliftonville road.

    Maybe When the Pope visits MAYNOOTH as a past one did to talk about the family he might lead the way and say that Gays, Lesbians, Transgenders, Transexuals are all welcome in the family of Christ with honest conviction.

    I'vesaid before that the faithful truly do not give a toss about the strange goings on or otherwise as they don't want to taint themselves with hatred thoughts. I believe that the true faithful accept everybody for wjo or what they are.

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    1. Francis, ever media aware, will not set foot in Gaynooth. You allude to the seminary in Belfast. It's a disgrace in an era of priestless parishes that the Irish church maintains three seminaries, with many priests looking after a total seminary community of less than 60. Only one seminary is needed now. The Irish bishops in a single generation have managed to do what the British penal laws failed to do: collapse Irish Catholicism.

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  26. MourneManMichael12 January 2018 at 19:21

    16:39's negative response is certainly OTT to what may well be a useful and relevant perspective.
    As A@15:30 reads though, it expresses merely a view or opinion, and would be the more convincing with some accompanying evidence presented.
    Nevertheless it's a useful contribution so thank you A. @ 15:30
    MMM

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    1. Thanks MMM (from poster 15.30)

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  27. You just have to LOVE those who hide in the dark anonymous corners of this blog. I care not for any of your constructive sentiments either Anonymous if anything you protest too much, am I hitting a nerve of truth with you.
    Little brothers God Bless them and what they want to do, Pat wouldn't want me as a housekeeper. You sound off like a hollow hwartless gong.

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    1. Big Hank at 20.12, you just prove my point about your hollow understanding of serious issues. "Big Hank" is the same as signing off as Anon: Who is Big Hank? : Answer:Another Anonymous.....

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    2. You’re not the sharpest implement in the tool box, sure you’re not, “Big Hank”?

      Sure you are as fuckin anonymous as everybody else!

      Don’t tell me you've been looking up Magna Carta’s phone number in the phone book under C!

      LOL

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    3. Please refrain from bad language @22.19

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    4. 22:53 lighten up. We’re all grown ups here and we can handle a few switchers. Take a wee chill pill.

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  28. You know Pat I always have a good chuckle at the inane and vacuous excuses proffered here for the scandals in Maynooth. But 15:30 has presented the most utterly outlandish and far fetched one yet. The mafia malcontents will say anything to defend their buddies...

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    1. I'm afraid many people would not agree with you on that point poster 20.29!
      I don't see anything to suggest that the poster at 15.30 is "defending buddies" or any reason to describe him as "the mafia".

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    2. You don't know the mafia @ 21:40. I bet you that 15:30 is a member or former member of the Maynooth formation team.

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    3. No, genuinely not. (@23.06)..
      I am poster 15.30. I told you that I had no agenda one way or the other. That was the truth.

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    4. You don't fool me 00:00 & 15:30. I was inside the Irish church for too long...

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    5. That does not give you any right to insult people.. Very weird...

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  29. Anyone know where they have hidden wee Pauly the Pryer? He’s disappeared without trace. That’s what they usually do with them isn’t it? Spirit them off.

    Is he in Canada? Holed up in some expensive clinic/luxury hotel, being quizzed about his own masturbatory habits etc?

    What about the other goon? The extractor? Fr Mick “Vee haf vays of making you tell us you are gay” Collins, the Pryer’s sidekick? Is he still there up to his messing?

    Fanny should have been sent packing along with Pauly the Pryer.

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  30. Don't forget, amid all the churlish counterpoint that Maynooth produced generations of priests who left their "country, kindred and Father's house" to be martyred on the missions. Fed perhaps by the scraps from their Master's table, they prepared a banquet from the goodness of their own lives for people to whom they said "your people will be MY people and your God will be MY God too."

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    1. And of course many of the priests who left their country were able to have HOUSEKEEPER, sure no one suspected a thing.

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    2. Fr Pryer is on a pew-funded sabbatical. What layperson gets one? Lol

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    3. I'm a layman working 60+ hours a week. How do I get a sabbatical?13 January 2018 at 17:57

      He's not listed on the Kilmore website, though maybe that's because he is on his well-earned jolly, sorry, sabbatical.

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  31. The prospect of closure will disappoint many people, not least +Pat's readers, who enjoy a good priestly scandal. Hopefully, +Pat will uncover another breathtaking scandal as a grand finale before closure.

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  32. Yes, there were hundreds of successful vocations and lots of good priests were ordained from Maynooth for many years as poster 21.44 says.
    Sexual morality in society as a whole had been loosening up since the 1960s but when homosexuality was no longer actually illegal (in the Republic of Ireland from 1993) I suppose students didn't feel they needed to hide it any more. Eventually there seems to have been a swing of the pendulum (possibly for the reasons given by 15.30 and some others) that these students were likely to be happier to accept their unmarried way of life and so have fewer problems with the celibacy rule. A few high profile scandals of heterosexual priests(and a bishop) in illicit relationships hit the papers and added fuel to this thinking. But once society began to more and more accept equality for gay people, students became more brazen and less content to pretend they were weren't involved. The situation in Maynooth deteriorated and didn't enjoy the quality of management and spiritual leadership that was necessary to steer the ship through dangerous waters.
    People are wiser in retrospection.
    A sad scenario..

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  33. I have always went by this name, as to use my own would only leave my children vunerable to the likes of paedophile types or such like. But I have to say that I've never hid behind the demonic Legion name of anonymous.

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    1. Big Hank the Plank - are you for real? Yer a feckin lunatic! Do you check under the bed every night for bogey men too?

      Away over to Prince Albert Street quick. Big Lily’s lookin ye. She needs a big man for a wee job.

      If you had brains Hank the Plank you WOULD be dangerous.

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    2. And if you had manners, 23:20, you'd be nice...like me.­čść

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    3. Big Hank, 22.59. You are bizarre. An f.....g lunatic with zero intelligence. Stay anonymous you fool. Go back to school.

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    4. Big Hank.....conjures up images of a looney bin....

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    5. You're a cheap bully. @00.35 00.36

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  34. And if you, @"23.20, were a lot less aggressive, you MIGHT be a little more interesting..

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  35. Are you still up, Magna?! Time for your Cappuccino surely!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Irish coffee, surely? Make that a triple.

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  36. the whole discussion here is about nothing and the mutual recriminations are evidence of frustration at having no material to bite on

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rather it is evidence of Maynooth supporters hiding in their anon status throwing shapes around attaching people rather than comments. Play the ball not the man.

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  37. 9:22 anonymous like you

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  38. Here's some good news from the Diocese of East Anglia, which now has 12 seminarians after years of having none. It's bishop, Alan Hopes, is known for his orthodoxy. http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/01/12/priestly-vocations-in-east-anglia-are-at-their-highest-level-in-30-years/

    ReplyDelete
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    1. 11.30
      Two independent, separate coincidental facts.

      Delete
    2. How do you know that? The stats show that it's the traditional orders which are thriving, while the others shrink away.

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    3. Here are stats for 00:54 to consider. The Jesuits have halved in number since Vatican II. Lol. https://onepeterfive.com/data-death-religious-orders/

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    4. 10:16
      The Jesuits have halved in number since the first human being walked on the moon.

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    5. The SJs are renewing themselves out of existence. But don't worry, keep on believing that Vat II was a new Pentecost and Springtime for the Church.

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    6. Vatican Council II is official Catholic theology. There’s no second show in town. If you don’t accept it you are not a Roman Catholic in communion with your church.

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    7. The French bishops are closing 17 seminaries. https://gloria.tv/article/nhmjgmQ3GPZ722D3ngH9Wmj7r

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    8. That moon landing has a lot to answer for. http://webspace.webring.com/people/up/pharsea/Decline.html

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    9. Even England, which had no space programme then, has been hit hard. https://lms.org.uk/statistics

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    10. 13:06, so is Vat I, Trent and the Councils before that. Vat II was high-jacked as soon as it started, including, unsurprisingly, led by the German bishops. The Spirit of Vat II is very different from the actual documents, which very few have read in full.

      Liberals are always talking about dialogue, debate, so is it wrong to say that Vat II's aims of strengthening and renewing the church and speaking to "modern man" as it said in its badly dated vocabulary, has failed.

      Let's be honest here. I am the youngest of 9 children. All of my siblings, their spouses and children have lapsed. One sister has joined the Elim Pentecostals. The rest don't even do Easter and Christmas any more. The same with my wife's family in England, and the youngsters are unbaptised and mostly athiests.

      When Francis was elected we were lied about a Francis effect. The decline has accelerated. Just YouTube "Christmas Day Urbi et Orbi" from say 2015 to 2017 to see the decline. The Square was half-empty in 2017.

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    11. 11:30’s good news from the Diocese of East Anglia and its burgeoning number of seminarians. Its bishop, Alan Hopes spent 25+ years as an Anglican clergyman.
      Ergo: if every candidate for RC bishop did that, the number of seminarians would increase exponentially!

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    12. I agree. They actually want priests, the rest want to force Rome hands to drive though deaconesses,

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    13. Don't underestimate it.

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    14. 21:44 - ‘Drive through deaconesses’ The expression suggests you are not familiar with patristics, where you will find plenty of references to them. For example, Saint John Chrysostom (d.407), Patriarch of Constantinople before the East-West split - so as Catholic as any on here, wrote many letters to the deaconess Olympias, 17 of which are extant.

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  39. In the new pint-sized Maynooth seminary the new rector should do a Chinese Govt type thing and block websites such as Grindr, Fabguys, Silverdaddies, Scruff and Baydoo. It's the only way to stop it. I think the compact seminary might be named St George's, as a nod to Maynooth's Royal Founder, and as a link to the George pub in Dublin, where the lads like to chill out at the weekend.

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  40. There's an astonishing list of closed US seminaries on Wikipedia, with virtually all of the closures occurring after 1965. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_closed_Catholic_seminaries_in_the_United_States

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  41. Mullaney is putting out smokescreens. At the press conference following the French Epicopal Conference's meeting last November it was revealed that the Vatican has ordered that seminaries with fewer than 17-20 seminarians must close or merge. So there won't be a wee bungalow built near the German department for the 5, 10, 15 sems Mullaney thinks will be in Maynooth in a few years time.

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  42. Dublin dominican seminary with numbers in single digits and a staff student ratio of 2:1 - that is, two staff members for every student, contrary to Vatican policy.

    Colourful staff profiles too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is a Dominican Studium a seminary. The new rule about the minimum number of sems was issued by the Congregation for the Clergy, which oversees seminaries. The OPs would surely be under the dicastery responsible for Religious?

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    2. My Deninzinger has a page missing14 January 2018 at 18:55

      I can’t find the bit in Pastor Aeternus or Lumen Gentium where it says that our Lord gave to St Peter the power to make paradigm shifts in the gospel from time to time, as stated by Cardinal Parolin, who is positioning himself ahead of the next conclave.

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    3. Dear 18:55, you’ll find it in a far-greater authority than either of the two you mention

      Here it is:

      Matthaeus 16:18-19Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE)

      et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam

      et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum et quodcumque ligaveris super terram erit ligatum in caelis et quodcumque solveris super terram erit solutum in caelis (Mt16:18-19).

      You see, the pronoun quodcumque is unconditional only on the will of Peter.

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    4. The Congregation for the Clergy determines the minimum philosophical and mnimum theological for all candidates for the priesthood. The maximum is prescribed by each diocese or religious institute.

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    5. Dear 20:21, save that for your novices. Probably an SJ hitting 70. Bad news is (a) you have none; (b) they wouldn't understand Latin. Good work, keep it up. ADMG

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    6. Latin? No. No more than your good self, I’d imagine.
      Your ‘bad news’ which is actually false, by the way, is surpassed by the promise that closes Matthew’s Gospel. Take a look when you get the chance.

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    7. AMDG actually - but at least you did recognise it was Latin.

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    8. Good to see the Bible mentioned. A lot of its teachings are uncomfortable in today's Church. So, for example, do the following verses from the Master trump Francis' permission in Amoris Laetitia (The Joy of Sex) for adulters to receive Holy Communion? In Mark 10:11–12, Jesus says only, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery." Likewise, Luke 16:18 says, "Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

      Consider also St Paul's discussion of divorce and remarriage. In Romans 7:2–3, he writes that "a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives; but if her husband dies she is discharged from the law concerning the husband. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress."

      And in 1 Corinthians 7:10–11, 39, he writes, "To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife. . . . A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If the husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord."

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    9. You didn’t mention Matthew’s take on the same subject where he corrects Mark and introduces an exception.
      And, agreeing with a post above, the Master entrusts Francis to interpret his word for 2018. He knows what He is doing - and so does Francis.

      Delete
  43. Check out the Ireland section on this list. So many houses of formation are closed. Onwards and upwards. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_seminaries

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  44. The Redemptorists are now known as the OAPs. Lol

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  45. I’d imagine the doms themselves as an international group, at HQ level, have some thoughts on optimal conditions and minimal requirements re numbers of students. Maybe Ireland doesn’t figure on HQ radar.

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  46. Pat, it appears for now that you have halted the ordinations of King Puck, Georgeous and Horny Andy, defenestrated Frs Coyle and McCambley, made Diarmuid remove sems from the only seminary in his diocese, put Maynooth under the global spotlight and chased Pryer and Cowboy out of it. But it seems that the biggest scalp of all is in sight - the closure of that scandalous sin factory. Aul Cahal, who loved to walk into Maynooth village in his Greca, would be appalled if he were still alive.

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    Replies
    1. There are no Grecas in the next life :-)

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  47. Two ageing OP queens are partial to Grecas - as are one or two of their prot├ęg├ęs.

    A sight not to be underestimated for its evangelizing potential: a priest in his 20’s in a Greca.

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  48. It's the future. Thank God.

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    Replies
    1. It’s difficult to think of anything less worthy of a human being’s hope for the future of faith than a Greca.

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    2. The effects of the sexual revolution of 1968 are still being felt.

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