Saturday, 17 February 2018



CARDINAL ATTEMPTS TO SILENCE PRIESTS BEFORE LAST SYNOD IN ROME.

Priests should not conduct a debate about the October Family Synod through the press, Cardinal Nichols has said, following the publication of a letter signed by hundreds of priests, urging the synod to issue a “clear and firm proclamation” upholding Church teaching on marriage.
THE TEXT OF THE PRIEST'S LETTER:
SIR – Following the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops in Rome in October 2014 much confusion has arisen concerning Catholic moral teaching. In this situation we wish, as Catholic priests, to re-state our unwavering fidelity to the traditional doctrines regarding marriage and the true meaning of human sexuality, founded on the Word of God and taught by the Church’s Magisterium for two millennia.
We commit ourselves anew to the task of presenting this teaching in all its fullness, while reaching out with the Lord’s compassion to those struggling to respond to the demands and challenges of the Gospel in an increasingly secular society. Furthermore we affirm the importance of upholding the Church’s traditional discipline regarding the reception of the sacraments, and that doctrine and practice remain firmly and inseparably in harmony.
We urge all those who will participate in the second Synod in October 2015 to make a clear and firm proclamation of the Church’s unchanging moral teaching, so that confusion may be removed, and faith confirmed.

Yours faithfully,

During his general audience today, Pope Francis called for prayer not “chatter” ahead of the Synod. He said: “So here is what I, with my collaborators, have thought to propose today: to renew the prayer for the Synod of the Bishops on the family. We are taking up this commitment again next October, when the ordinary Assembly of the Synod, dedicated to the family, will take place. I would like for this prayer, and the whole Synod journey, to be animated by the compassion of the Good Shepherd for His flock, especially for persons and families that, for different reasons, are ‘troubled and abandoned, like sheep without a shepherd’ (Mt 9:36).
“So, sustained and animated by the grace of God, the Church can be ever more committed, and ever more united, in the witness of the truth of the love of God and of His mercy for the families of the world, excluding none, whether within or outside the flock. I ask you, please, to not neglect your prayer. All of us – the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, priests, religious, lay faithful – we are all called to pray for the Synod. There is need of this, not of chatter! I also invite those who feel far away, or who are not accustomed to do so, to pray. This prayer for the Synod on the Family is for the good of everyone. I know that this morning you were given a little prayer card, which you have in your hands. It might be a little wet. I invite you to hold on to it and keep it with you, so that in the coming months you can recite it often, with holy insistence, as Jesus has asked us.”
The prayer which the Pope distributed reads:
“Jesus, Mary and Joseph,
In you we contemplate
The splendour of true love,
We turn to you with confidence.
Holy Family of Nazareth,
Make our families, also,
Places of communion and cenacles of prayer,
Authentic schools of the Gospel,
And little domestic Churches.
Holy Family of Nazareth
May our families never more experience
Violence, isolation, and division:
May anyone who was wounded or scandalized
Rapidly experience consolation and healing.
Holy Family of Nazareth,
May the upcoming Synod of Bishops
Re-awaken in all an awareness
Of the sacred character and inviolability of the family,
Its beauty in the project of God.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph,
Hear and answer our prayer. Amen
PAT SAYS:

I think that it is regrettable that Cardinal Nichols of England wants to stop priests - or anybody else expressing their views about any matter.

As Christians and Catholics, we believe that the Holy Spirit speaks through all people and all things - especially through the community of the baptized.

When the bishops meet in Rome to discuss any matter they should be highly conscious of the sensus fidei - the sense of the faith among the whole people of God.

On one occasion Moses said: "WOULD THAT THE WHOLE PEOPLE OF GOD WERE PROPHETS".

God can speak to us through a little child in its innocence. God can speak to us through a prisoner in his cell - even a guilty one. 

God can speak to us through the two parties of a broken marriage. God can speak to us through a transgendered person who feels isolated and misunderstood.

For far too long, because of strange ideas in the early and later Church the pope and the bishops came to believe that God can only speak through them.

They have a teaching role. But a good teacher LISTENS as well as TEACHES.

We do not live in Putin's Russia. Priests and lay people should be free to say publicly what they believe without fear of condemnation or punishment. 

In fact priests on the ground, at the coal face of life often have a better idea of the needs of the People of God than those who live in palaces. 

One of the problems I had over 30 years ago is that I had things to say and there was no opportunity to say them WITHIN the Church and I had to go outside to say things.

At the time I said:

"IF THE CHURCH WILL NOT PROVIDE US WITH A LAUNDRY ROOM WE WILL BE FORCED TO WASH OUR DIRTY LINEN IN PUBLIC DOWN BY THE RIVER"




LET PRIESTS AND PEOPLE SPEAK FREELY. THEY TOO ARE THE CHURCH!



68 comments:

  1. Sensus fidelium

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  2. I'm sorry, Bishop Pat, but I cannot disagree with your comment. It coincides exactly with my own thoughts.

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    1. 00.47: How magnanimous of Mags. His thoughts coincide with Pat!! My God, imagine. Priests are morally right not to entrust news to this tabloid, gossipy blog, whose mission is not TRUTH - but to give a forum for the venom, hatred and nastiness of Pat, Magna and their cohorts. Saying that, some comments on this blog have challenged me....but only those that, while questioning much that is unacceptable in the Church, do so in a fair, balanced and just way.The gutter, juvenile, unintelligent and ignorant comments - of which there are many - do not allow for real debate.

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    2. Magna at 14.28, when you learn to RESPECT others (and yourself) and when you cease being an obnoxious specimen, endeavouring to slice people apart, being rude and a drunkardly idiot, then you might deserve learned, rational debate. Otherwise - contempt is the appropriate response to you.

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    3. 17:05, ch-ch-CHICKEN!πŸ˜†

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    4. Magna at 14.28: What you should have said was "let's debase" not "debate" because your mission on this blog is to debase everyone with your long winded commentary and smarmy approach. RESPECT doesn't belong in your lexicon of words.

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  3. Perhaps the cardinal is more concerned about moles talking to the media about some of the priests who signed the letter also being signed up with Grindr or BlacksForDaddies, for example, at the same time.

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    1. Hmm.. Abbot Cuthbert Brogan is on the list of signatories!

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    2. Well he would be, wouldn't he. It's all part of the facade of orthodox Catholicism!

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  4. Your gonna need to clarify your statement "even the guilty ones"

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  5. The old mentality of control needs to go. Action should be by consensus and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

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    1. It will never go, Sean, while the traditional ecclesial notion of hierarchy remains. This notion has always been central to governance (and, therefore, control) in the Church and, in fact, was one plank of an argument against separation of church and state used in a papal encyclical issued in 1905 or 1906 by Pope Pius X, 'Vehementer Nos'. The encyclical was addressed to the French Government and people in particular and reminded them of the servile notion of laity in the Church, that it was 'the duty of the faithful to allow themselves to be led' (by the Roman Magisterium).

      The Roman Catholic Church has never considered itself an assembly of equals, because the idea of instruction (or teaching) has always been reserved to the clergy.

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    2. Nonsense. Jesus was a superb teacher. He wasn’t a cleric.

      Nuns and brothers neither group is clerical, made teaching a speciality.

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    3. Are you addressing my post, 15:53?

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    4. Jesus is a cleric. The book of Hebrews says he is the High Priest.

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    5. 15:53, no, Jesus wasn't a 'cleric', but, by traditional theological understanding of his redemptive role in Judaistic terms, he was the High Priest, effecting what Jewish high priests like Caiaphas could never accomplish: atonement for sin and the reconciliation of humanity with the Father. Moreover, he was both High Priest AND sacrificial offering. Without acceptance of Jesus as priest, the entire theological justification for Roman Catholic priesthood collapses. You aren't going to deny then, are you, Jesus' high priestly role?πŸ˜†

      As for nuns and brothers (religious), they have generally acted as an arm of the institutional (clerical) Church. Clerics, then, in all but name.πŸ˜†

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    6. 19:28 Clearly you didn’t make it to II Divine and Tom Marsh’a Christology. Jesus’ plack of Aaronic and Levitical descent would have occasioned Marsh to wipe the floor with your offerings.

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    7. M C Spot on Interesting to compare the notion of cleric in the Bible (if there is such a thing) with the modern understanding of a person in a collar.

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    8. M C Spot on Interesting to compare the notion of cleric in the Bible (if there is such a thing) with the modern understanding of a person in a collar.

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    9. Have just read your silly post, 21:30.

      No, Jesus wasn't a descendent of the priestly tribe of Israel, the Levites. (Nor, for that matter, are Roman Cathoilc priests.) So what is your point? More to the pointπŸ˜†, do you have one? The Levites is one of the ten 'disappeared' tribes of Israel, missing since the eigth century
      BC and the Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom, Israel. But the role of Jewish priesthood did not die out with the Levites. (You probably thought it did.πŸ˜†)

      The poster at 17:05 informed you of what is written of Jesus in Hebrews. Weren't you paying attention? Or would you rather allow poor Tom Marsh to trump Scripture? According to Hebrews 5: 1-10, Jesus is High Priest, appointed by God himself, like every preceding high priest.

      Tom Marsh would never have argued as you suggest; you would, of course. But then, you're neither particularly bright nor well grounded in Scripture, are you?πŸ˜†

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    10. Jesus was not a Christian cleric. It would be an anachronism to use either term in his case.

      Jesus of Nazareth was not a Jewish priest at any stage during his life.

      Major flaws in your presentation:
      No aware of historical sources.
      Anachronistic historiography.
      Undifferentiated notions of history and historicity.

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  6. Who is that himbo priest on the Big questions right now lying that faith schools in Northern Ireland ended the conflict when they actually contributed to starting it? The holy family is not a family if it is true that Mary and Joseph were in separate beds meaning the marriage was insincere and therefore not real!

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    1. Faith schools most emphatically did NOT contribute to starting the troubles. How dare you say that when in many troubled areas of West Belfast, Lenadoon, Turf Lodge etc and Republican strongholds such as South Armagh and the Bogside schools was virtually the one place where children would hear in their Assemblies and RE lessons that murder and injuring another was seriously wrong and so on.. So much so, that around that time Catholic schools led the way in reaching out to neighbouring non Catholic schools in friendship and shared outings etc. All schools had a new subject on the curriculum called "EMU" (-Education for Mutual Understanding) and this ensured that peacebuilding was always a high priority in Catholic schools which drove the venture.
      Long before the Good Friday Agreement, schools were quietly leading our imoressionable and sometimes volatile youth away from violence often in the most dangerous circumstances. I could not believe I was reading that unwarranted brickbat!

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    2. But just think, 12:20: there would have been absolutely no need for EMU had these children been taught together rather than under a system of educational apartheid favoured by the Roman Catholic Church and its incessant, pathological obsession with controlling the minds of the young. In this sense 'faith schools' WERE very much responsible for facilitating the 'conflict', particularly those of the Roman Catholic faith.

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    3. 12:20 Well said.

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    4. David Rocks. (Could be a good Grindr username.)

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    5. Thank you poster 13.54
      ...(From poster 12.20)

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    6. @13:55 That name doesn’t appear among the signatories. Why mention him in this context?

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    7. @16:06 Answer to 10:46.

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    8. Magna at 13.39: No surprise that you should hold this opinion, such is your hatred for all things Catholic. However, your opinion is rubbish and does not stand up to scrutiny. You too possess a "patholigical obsession" - sadly with hatred towards others, particularly priests and thus renders your comments dangerous and contemptible. Wake up, you miserable hypocrite!

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    9. David Rocks is a Dominican chaplain to the universities in Leicester. He is a good man, but possesses some very conservative views. A Mass he said for students some years ago caused the society to lose about 40-50 members over the course of one week, due to the puritanical views expressed.

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    10. @13:55 It's ironic that you mention such an app in the context of this situation. Bishop Pat knows what I mean.

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    11. Wide is the gate, narrow the way.

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  7. Vin proving once again that he MUST be boss

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    1. Yeah this is Vinnie all over.

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  8. When Joseph woke up he did what the angel had told him. He married Mary, but had no intercourse with her until she had given birth to a son. Then he gave him the name Jesus. (Matthew 1:25)

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  9. Priest in Westminster18 February 2018 at 12:37

    Vincent Nichols is the blandest, most boring ++Westminster we've ever had yet he campaigned for decades to get the job. Why?

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  10. Are you a Free P?

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    1. Yes I’m free

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    2. 15.24 - if you're free, where can we hook up??? A Freudian slip in the expression....

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    3. He's not exactly free... but maybe he don't come cheap!

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    4. Have a heart, Westminster Priest. He spends 90% of his time composing messages to Francis assuring him of the love and support of English and Welsh Catholics. As one prominent priest asked, 'Can I be specifically excluded from these messages, please' (me too please and about a million others). It might be more pertinent and certainly more truthful to just send the message on every major feast, the Pope's birthday etc. 'Vatican, we have a problem, a big one'.
      I once met Vin at a parish occasion, when he was in Birmingham. He was chatting to some people and I was just sipping a coffee when an old lady in a wheelchair sitting on her own in a corner said, 'Would you ask the Archbishop if he would speak to me for a moment.' I wandered over and waited a minute or two and, in a gap in the conversation, passed on the request. By his outraged reaction at being disturbed you would have thought that I had asked him to lick my boots and then black up and sing Swannee for the assembled company.

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    5. That sounds like Vin; he's totally up his own hole.

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  11. No. A RC. And you?

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    1. No such thing as an RC. There are 23 rites in the Catholic church, of which the Roman Rite is only one of the 23.

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    2. These two sentences are mutually exclusive. Together they defy logic.

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    3. There may be a lot of "rites" but there's also definitely one wrong aΓ±d that's ... Magna Blue,the Wikiate!

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  12. Typically MC Blue starts mouthing off... Ignore...

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    1. Oh! How?

      Try, just for once, addressing my arguments, 14:45. Show me that you're intelligent enough for debate.

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    2. Oh! How?

      Try, just for once, addressing my arguments, 14:45. Show me that you're intelligent enough for debate.

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  13. 12:37 I totally agree with you about Nichols. Sooner watch paint dry than listen to him!
    UK Priest.

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  14. Credit must go to the part played by our hardworking teachers who quietly helped prepare each new generation to value a peaceful society and it was galling in the extreme today to read the accusations that Catholic teachers carried responsibility for the political unrest! They should never have had this spurious claim made against them . I reiterate, to the good poster who explained this to us that he/she should take the good advice to "Ignore"---The teacher will, no doubt, recognise what is at work here with the perennial malcontent poster who responded - - an example of the binary laws of provocation ie to unsettle, goad,then let the discontent ferment.
    It is a well-rehearsed tactic with which the teacher no doubt will be familiar.

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    1. Galling that teachers carried responsibility for the political unrest. Why? Have you no stomach for the truth.

      I remember one teacher in particular who encouraged allegiance to militant republicanism. I recall another who allowed a kid in her class to be bullied by most of the others simply because he was English.

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    2. I6. 21.

      You are proven correct.! (Thank you.)

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    3. Magna Carta Blue at 16:53 - Who? Where? What school? When? Come on, name and shame! Those are serious allegations. Spit it out.

      I never, during my Catholic education, was taught anything other than respect for others. Violence was abhorred.

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    4. 20.22: Bullshit to you Magna! When the TRUTH is spoken about the positive role of Catholic Schools, your response is predictable. You speak alot of bullshit. You fool.

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    5. 20.02 asks legitimate questions of that demonic fool, Magna. Why don't you answer those questions, Magna?

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    6. Magna Carta Blue @20:22, “Bullshit” yourself, you twisted, lying idiot.

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    7. I would like to apologise for any upset or offence I have caused today by my cruel words. As usual it is because I have been up celebrating - this time the Chinese year of the dog, with the hair of the dog. I'm afraid as usual it made me rather snappy.

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    8. It must have been a bulldog... Otherwise how we would get all that "bullshit" we kept hearing about!

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  15. Very true 16:21. The faith schools and their state sector counterparts played an important role in the much more settled society we now have in NI. I never heard a bad word said about Protestants in the three Catholic schools I attended.

    Also, church schools exist all round the world without the societies in which they operate experiencing NI-type problems.

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  16. Wonder will people be silenced on how many billions the Church is worth? http://www.smh.com.au/national/catholic-church-s-massive-wealth-revealed-20180209-p4yzus.html

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  17. Is bullshit worse than cat or dogshit, for example?

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