Tuesday, 20 February 2018

SHOULD RORY COYLE BE ALLOWED BACK TO MINISTRY?




YESTERDAY A COMMENT MAKER ON THE BLOG SET THE CAT AMONG THE PIDGEONS BY SUGGESTING THAT THREE 13-YEAR-OLDS TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE FATHER RORY COYLE OF ARMAGH DIOCESE BACK IN MINISTRY.

Those of us who claim that we are trying to be Christians MUST answer this question with the Gospel and the teachings of Jesus in the forefront of our minds.

Rory has certainly caused a major scandal in the Irish RC Church and from the point of view of objective Catholic morality he has "sinned" and failed. He has also broken his promise of celibacy, which, whether we like it or not, demands that active Catholic priests maintain a high level of chastity as well as celibacy.

But Rory is not the biggest sinner that ever lived - nor has he indeed committed an UNFORGIVABLE SIN.

In fact, in God's eyes, there is no such a thing as a sin that God is not capable of forgiving.

Rory could have done many a worse thing. He could have taken the life of another person. He could have raped someone. He could have abused a minor etc., etc.

He is obviously a gay man and he found it hard or impossible to refrain from sexual intimacy. Unfortunately for him, he used the infamous Grindr app to talk to a young man and show him his face and his "bits and bobs".

That young man had been a student of Rory's when he was a school chaplain in a previous parish and the young man in question felt angry and scandalized by Rory. He contacted The Irish News newspaper and told them the story and gave them copies of the offending pictures. 

The Irish News decided not to publish these pictures but they did carry the story.

They also carried the story of the widespread support and sympathy that Rory was receiving in Armagh from parishioners and members of the GAA in which Rory was very involved.

Amy Martin sent Rory for some kind of therapy in a centre in the USA.


AMY


He later appeared at the back of Armagh Cathedral one morning at 10 am Mass sporting a bushy ginger beard.

Some people wondered if this was him and Amy testing the water for a Rory come back?

Since then the trail has gone silent.

If Rory really and sincerely wants a second chance at priesthood it's very hard, from the Christian perspective, to see why he does not deserve that second chance. 

Of course, it would mean some embarrassment for him as people have very long memories.

It would also put dear Amy in a difficult position.

And, of course, it would mean that Rory would have to be sure that celibacy was for him - especially now that he knows the price that is paid for living a double life and being found out.

I often quote my deceased Dad's sayings on this blog. One of those sayings was:

"ITS HARD TO GO IN YOUR BARE FEET WHEN YOU ARE USED TO WEARING SHOES".

If during Rory's absence he has experienced intimacy with others I think that reengaging with celibacy would be more difficult. But of course - not impossible.

What would I advise Rory if he spoke to me about it?

I would advise him to be absolutely open with himself about who he is and what his human needs are and be guided by that.

Celibacy is an "unnatural" state and it really suits a minority of people. 

Having been freed from those "chains" - albeit in a painful and public way - would Rory be wise to offer himself back to his chains again?

Rory IS a priest. He will ALWAYS be a priest. Even if he is "laicized" as a cleric he will still be a priest and under canon law will have the obligation to administer the Last Rites to those in danger of death.

He can exercise his priesthood is so many ways out in the world. And he can do that and still have a Beloved in his life. 

By all accounts, Rory is a likable man and a man of considerable talents.

Should he squander those talents on a celibate priesthood which has as much a future as the Titanic did after it hit the iceberg?




Grindr was Rory's iceberg.

But he has survived it.

He is a young man and I hope - whatever he decides - his future will bring him happiness.

He may even look back in the future and thank God and Providence for that iceberg.

It may have stopped him continuing to float in waters that would lead to hypocrisy, frustration and a profound sense of emptiness and waste.


-------------------------------------------------------


133 comments:

  1. No. He should not be allowed back to minister. Why? Not until EVERY seminarian who was asked to leave for being gay or showing gay inclinations is asked to return to Seminary. I'm referring to seminarians down through the last few decades. Furthermore, if reports of promiscuity in Dublin, Dromore, Galway and Meath as reported here are true, then they should be asked to go spend sometime at the same centre as Rory and ponder things. Don't forget the PP in the West who stops off to break his journey at a woods in a cruising spot near the county he's originally from. Maybe he just gets out for walk there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why would a pp be out on a journey...parishes are not that complicated to get around.
      He intentionally goes to whereever it is looking for sexual activity.
      He is not a priest.

      Delete
    2. Rte last night we had a millionaire from dragons den saying she fundraising for the popes visit.
      Well I won’t be giving, even if he is attracting tourists here.

      Delete
    3. That's a matter for you whether you are generous or tightfisted. @ 11.01
      What do you expect us to do - - give you a round of applause?

      Delete
    4. The Frankiethon will cost at least €20m, none paid by the Vat, and none of that going to the poor or homeless, and the chartered Pope Force 1 will get through a right few carbon.

      Enjoy. I think it's a bad idea. The contrast between the JPII crowds and those attracted by F will confirm that Francis is the death rattle of the Church in Ireland.

      Delete
    5. Frankie doesn't care, it keeps his personal show on the road; and as Joe Duffy of Clogher said, it will do for our day.

      Delete
    6. It'll be ok. Despite the €20m plus cost and the chartered jet, Frank, being ever so humble, will head into town in a Mini or a Ford Fiesta.

      Delete
    7. @19.27 The broken record about fewer bums on seats at papal audience keeps playing away.

      Delete
  2. Should Coyle get back? - So what do you want - - more of the same?
    WELL, NO THANKS
    We have enough filth without that trash.
    I believe we deserve better!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Well, I hope the "iceberg" cooled his lust but I very much doubt it
    We definitely were glad to see the back of him. Good riddance.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Oh, Rory "has survived". has he?
    Well oardon me if I don't go all misty-eyed!
    The very thought of thst dirty scut standing up in front of my teenagers and soaking up the adulation of the easily led makes my stomach turn!

    ReplyDelete
  5. "Considerable talents" my a***!
    We know where his "talents" lie!
    Stupid idiot . I am not so easily impressed The best favour that yahoo can do our diocese now is to stay strictly away. We were deceived and shortchanged. We are the ones who need time to recovet.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I don't give a damn whether he goes in shoes, or he goes in bare feet just so long as he GOES!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Pat are you feeling ok? Your saying lovely things.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "You're saying.."

      Delete
    2. Pat has compassion too. He suffered, he wasn't given a fair hearing.
      Maybe he knows the difficulties that other people experience. He's a realist.
      Christ came to save All people not just the few.
      I believe that we have to reach out to all people, not just the people we agree with. That the message of Christ.
      What value is there is throwing stones at anyone? We have the story of the Prodigal Son, the lost sheep.
      We are all pilgrims on the same journey. Lent is a time of turning towards to Lord. That is what Pat is inviting us to do today.

      Delete
    3. 20:45 “...ewer sewing...”

      Delete
    4. We look forward to Pat's "compassion" extended to the Church in general tomorrow then. Yes?

      Delete
  8. Of course, we're back to the 'transparency' thing again, aren't we?

    For all we know, he could be deemed rehibilitated and back in active ministry in some unsuspecting parish in the British Isles, or Europe.

    That's their usual way of doing things isn't it?

    Old habits die hard.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "... re-engaging with celibacy... offer himself back to his chains again?"

    Not on your Nelly, he'll be too thirsty for men and end up a truck-stop trixie like many of his peeps.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As they say on the Nuncio's favourite tv programme "ta-ra, chuck". He won't be back.

      Delete
  10. 1. Point of order in relation to his failings: he went with conscious intent to breach celibacy via casual sex - this is not the frequently heard story of a priest falling in love and drifting through love into sexual activity. It was wanton lust.

    2. Forgiveness and reinstatement of this order requires prior humility and sorry. One thief on the cross was sorry he got caught, but the other was sorry he did it. We all need to be aware of that.

    ReplyDelete
  11. You have a lot of compassion in today's blog, Pat. I can see how you attitude has changed, maybe since you now have care for a number of clergy. It reminded me of Sean's contribution yesterday.

    Often these things are far from black and white, and at the heart of our Christian message it compassion. There is more rejoicing in Heaven over the return of one penitent sinner.

    Personally, I wish Rory all the best for his future, whatever shape it may take.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, I hope "his future" "is far from here . My children have seen enough... When I remember the duplicity of that scumbag and those pornographic pictures!

      Delete
    2. Wouldn't it be great if we could all show more compassion to others.
      I believe it is a key component at what it means to follow Christ.
      Compassion requires a level of maturity and some people are more gifted at sharing it than others.

      Delete
    3. ".. new compassion ." you think??Will we still see this new "compassion" tomorrow and the next day when Pat and others are back to discussing other bishops and the Church in general? That's what I'd like to know!
      If that happens, then I might be tempted to think you were sincere but otherwise no - - I am not convinced about the depth and extent of this new "Lenten compassion"
      I await with baited breath.

      Delete
  12. Rory is a much younger man than I and time is on his hands. The return to ministry choice rests with his bishop or those in charge wherever he presents himself. There are options outside RC church but the challenge is to be appropriate going forward. It's easy to be erratic when ones head is in a strange place and hindsight is a great healer. Let's not forget the grace of God without which nothing is possible.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Hindsight is a great healer. Let's not forget the grace of God..."
      We are all called to bring the healing presence of Christ to others and these words spoke to me. Sean, you have a great gift and I hope you never lose it.
      You speak from your heart, and I am truly grateful that your comments are always thoughtful and considerate. You never attempt to put down another person but always willing to see that there is good and bad qualities in every person.

      Delete
    2. 11.38 Thank you. Appreciate your positive feedback

      Delete
    3. Rory's knocking on a bit for a young fella. Gone are the days when ex-priests could walk into jobs as RE teachers, social workers or school/hospital chaplains.

      Nowadays you have to be separately fully qualified in your field, fully checked by the safeguarding authorities and definitely not have a bad footprint on Google.

      Delete
  13. We can be quite certain that this blog would be tbe last place for Rory to turn to for advice, guidance or support. I'm sure he has reflected profoundly on his life and sought much necessary professional counselling so that he can live with the truth of his life. I believe it will be a huge challenge for him after all the publicity. But all we can do is wish him well and pray that the good Lord will strengthem him. To continue to write about him and subject him to nasty, uncharitable comment is unfair and unkind - and unnecessary. Who of us, in our efforts to rehabilitate, for whatever reason, would want further comment? Leave him alone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We are more than happy to "leave him alone "--Just so long as he returns the compliment and leaves our diocese "alone". We tolerated that scumbag far longer than he deserved..

      Delete
    2. Wise and thoughtful comment. It's like the advice a person with much reflection would offer to someone in need.
      I don't know how I would cope in the situation? Hopefully with the support of family, friends and a good therapist.
      Trying to encourage someone to live the truth of their lives seems like a very wise suggestion.

      Delete
  14. Why on Earth should - and how on Earth can - Rory Coyle return to priestly ministry?

    Rory Coyle does not have the “right” to be a priest. He never had the right. God called him perhaps.

    But look what he did - look how he acted - with what God (maybe) gave to him. I say ‘maybe’ because some of these men it could be argued called themselves to the priesthood. God did not call them. They came to the priesthood as a way of gaining respectability and hiding from their true selves.

    Rory Coyle squandered the gift of the priesthood. He treated it as a joke when he used Grindr to cruise for promiscuous sex. It’s got nothing to do with his sexual orientation for it would be exactly the same if he cruised for women.

    A man who sends pictures of his private parts to strangers is fundamentally lacking in what it takes to be a priest.

    And blaming celibacy is a load of nonsense. Celibate rule or no celibate rule, these types would still be putting their “bits and bobs” about.

    Let him get another job, another station in life and spend the rest of his days doing what good he can. What’s so special about him that he has to be dolled up on the Altar? Can’t he kneel in the congregation like all the rest of us sinners?

    Rory Coyle has destroyed his vocation. He was playing fast and loose with that which is most sacred. His behaviour that got him into trouble wasn’t a moment of madness, or weakness, or a once of, it was a pattern of behaviour that he fully knew was incompatible with his calling.

    Stay away, Rory. Get on with your life quietly.

    And, by the way, Pat this “priest forever” business you keep harping on about. That’s another form of clericalism. A priest forever? So what!

    The fact that a bishop put his hands on your head one day at a certain time, in a certain place, is only a historical fact. In the case of certain men, they should never have been ordained. To ordain them was a big mistake and the best thing that can be done is dismiss them from the priesthood.

    There are quite a few of them and if they were working in secular employment they would be given their cards!

    Catholic granny

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quite right - “a priest forever” doesn’t mean they have the right to minister if they are discovered to be unsuitable.

      Doctors and lawyers, for example, get struck off registers if they betray their professions. Should that not apply even more to priests who betray God and the People of God?

      Stay away, Rory. Find another walk of life.

      Delete
    2. Agreed with you completely. @ Catholic granny

      Delete
    3. That's the best response to this article. Excellently put

      Delete
    4. Is Fr Bredan Smyth of the Norbertines a priest for ever? Isn't there a D&C priest also called Brendan Smyth. Wouldn't you think he'd change it by deed poll.

      Though there is an American priest well-liked by trads called Fr John Hardon. I'm not making that up.

      Delete
    5. I hope you get granny-apple-two-steps (explosive diarrhea!).

      Delete
    6. No, 16:17, you aren't making it up. Fr Hardon, a Jesuit, is author of Catholic Encycopedia of Theology. As I recall, a morally rigorist read. No wonder the 'traddies' are thrilled with him.

      Delete
  15. My goodness, everything from chains to icebergs thrown into mix today!

    I imagine Rory Coyle has been quietly let go with a generous pay-off after signing the all-important non-disclosure document.

    However, in the case of McCamley, due to his age, they will set him up in a house in somewhere and hope he behaves himself.

    Just two more terrible examples of gay men getting involved with the Catholic church.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Sean @8.55 you are the voice of reason and compassion. I imagine you speak from your own experience which is heart-felt and meaningful.

    Today's Gospel speaks of forgiveness. I struggle to forgive others when they have wronged me but I find it hardest to forgive myself.

    Sean, are you in active ministry in the Church of England? Do you find much of a difference ministering there then in the Catholic Church?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Can we give this Sean and Church of England nonsense a rest please. It has nothing to do with what's being discussed

      Delete
    2. I enjoy Sean's contributions and I would like to hear more about it.
      I think he has an interesting story to tell. A story that is humane, sensitive and compassionate.
      I'm taking it that you don't know much bout him?

      Delete
    3. 10.36 I am currently an Ordained Local Minister in CoE linked to my parish and deanery. I still work in my day job Supporting a lad on autistic spectrum. I am doing a one year theology refresher at Martin Luther King House in Manchester. I hope to be licensed during the Diaconate Ceremony on 1 July. I have permission to officiate in my parish at present. Main difference is that one church can be more Roman than Rome and another Evangelical with a more relaxed liturgy and variations between both extremes. A vicar needs to be comfortable in the church he or she find themselves in. Simplistic but I hope this helps

      Delete
    4. 15.39 Are you a complete idiot that doesn’t listen or want to listen. Firstly, I know all about Sean and the Sligo debacle and told him this on yesterday’s blog, Secondly, where you not listening yet again when Sean asked you specifically to email him directly so he could answer your questions. So ask Pat for Sean’s email, go to computer, type email to Sean, wait for reply and read - ok! Can you understand all of that.

      Delete
    5. Goodness, 16:15 is more tetchy than the fake Magna Carta on a bad day!
      You ignore 16:15, love, ask away. It's just people with a chip who want to shut up Sean.

      Delete
    6. I'm not the idiot fool on here 17.52 who is pretending to be someone else by using the same pathetic name. Nobody takes you seriously so slide on and get a personality transplant. Idiot.

      Delete
    7. @19:08
      Thank you so much for taking the time to consider my response and reply so kindly. I am looking forward to reading Sean's account here, as I am sure you are too :o)

      Delete
  17. I don’t believe in a priest forever either.
    Actually once a man breaks his vows, he is no longer a priest.
    Forget about forgiving sins , half the priests should never have been ordained.
    Pat you should never have given this silly man a blog, he was an actor.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree with you @ 10.51
      You are not so easily taken in!
      I wonder how much of today's oft-quoted "compassion" will be evident in the blog and from certain posters tomorrow when Pat moves on to discuss other clerics and topics!
      I wouldn't bet on it.. I am thinking it will soon evaporate!

      Delete
    2. You're an optimist, then, 13:34?😆

      Delete
    3. Rory is a Priest forever.

      Delete
  18. That lad will go far. The farther the better as far as we are concerned in the cathedral! Good riddance...

    ReplyDelete
  19. Thank you CG for a heartfelt sincere comment. It's good to have an "ordinary catholic's" view of the institution and its clerics as opposed to so many insider's vested and perhaps self defensive interests: or even 'outsiders' like myself.
    And I do think your comment to Pat about the "priest forever" particularism is indeed a valid comment. Thanks again

    ReplyDelete
  20. The whole area of sexuality and sexual ethics needs to be reflected on in the Catholic Church, would you agree Pat?
    100 years we put people in Magdalen Laundries, cut off from society and shunned by family, friends an church. Nowadays that would be unthinkable.
    Society has moved so quickly. I can remember the dark days of the 1960's where salvation was all about morality. Nowadays, it's so different.
    Contraception, marriage, divorce all need to be looked at within our church.
    From a grandfather in the Church

    ReplyDelete
  21. Maybe Magna, you could tell us about the schism of Donatism, that was present in the early Church?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Donatism was a schism in the Church of Carthage from the fourth to the sixth centuries AD. Donatists argued that Christian clergy must be faultless for their ministry to be effective and their prayers and sacraments to be valid. Donatism had its roots in the long-established Christian community of the Roman Africa province in the persecutions of Christians under Diocletian. Named after the Berber Christian bishop Donatus Magnus, Donatism flourished during the fourth and fifth centuries.
      I am not Magna.... either 1, 2 or 3 !

      Delete
    2. I meant to quote my source as wiki, sorry.
      There is a fuller explanation on the web-site.

      Delete
    3. Ha ha @ poster 12.22
      You made it to Wiki before Team Magna! Good man! (or woman)

      Delete
    4. Why do you want to know about Donatism, 12:00? How is it relevant to this blog?

      Delete
    5. Thanks, Magna seems to be quiet today. Indeed both Magnas are quiet.

      Delete
    6. I'm quite noisy, actually, and would be *very* interested to hear what the fake me has to say about Donatism!

      Delete
    7. Actually I have managed to locate a picture of Donatists in Istanbul:
      http://baws.ae/141-shawarma-joints-shut-dubai/
      As you can see their rites were markedly different to everone else's and more tasty.

      Delete
  22. Pat, have you ever met priests who left ministry and then returned after a number of years?
    I think I heard of a case once where a man left to get married, he had a family and when his wife died he joined back up again?
    Imagine the life experience he would have lived through!
    And isn't Pope Francis thinking of letting priests in Brazil get married.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think it is already married men in Brazil to be allowed to become priests rather than priests being allowed to get married

      Delete
  23. 11.01
    Keep your money to yourself and your comments !
    If people want to give, let them give.
    If people don't want to give, let them keep it.

    What's the big issue?

    I think that Pope Francis is a wonderful man.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did he set a wonderful example to the world when, without evidence, he accused of slander sexual-abuse survivors in Chile?

      Did he set a wonderful example of humility and penitence when he never apologised for his wrongdoing?

      Delete
    2. Yes Francis was simply wonderful in lifting the penalties Benedict had imposed on Fr Mauro Inzoli, who repaid the compliment by abusing more children in his new assignment.

      According to the Catholic Herald, Francis has been overruling the CDF when it recommends laicisation for the likes of Coyle and McCamley.

      Francis' record in Argentina is nothing to write home about either.

      Delete
  24. Perhaps Rory has applied to join Buckley’s Oratory!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Rory being forgiven and treated with compassion does not mean that he can resume his priestly ministry. He can’t return as a priest. That doesn’t mean he can’t live a good and fulfilling life.

    I don’t think Rory could ever minister again as a credible priest. The damage is too extensive.

    Would people not be looking at him and thinking “Grindr”? Would young handsome men not wonder if he is eyeing them up? Would Rory himself even be capable of keeping the beast in its cage?

    Let’s face it, what he did was pretty extreme - pursuing that young man and sending him naked pictures. That’s a wee bit beyond the pale is it not for most gay men - never mind a priest?

    I mean it’s not even that he met the young fella in a bar or somewhere and they “clicked” and had a wee bit of “fun”. RC pursued the lad persistently and sent him nude pictures for crying out loud? Is he/was he mentally ill?

    That is not the behaviour of a priest who can be rehabilitated. More than behaviour modification is called for there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree. The man lacks committment, and self-discipline. For a priest, signs of immaturity and, therefore, of unsuitability for ministerial priesthood.

      Delete
    2. Being gay in the Catholic priesthood is widespread according to +Pat. It seems celibacy has been overturned by the most priests, not just Rory Coyle: “They're here! They're Queer! Get used to it!”

      Delete
    3. Behaviour modification? But I would miss all the scandal. +Pat has made a new career out of it.

      Delete
    4. Magna @ 14.17 “The man lacks commitment and self-discipline. For a Priest, signs of immaturity and, therefore, of unsuitability for ministerial priesthood”. I’m sure you can identify with this statement very much Magna as it reflects your own unsuitability.

      Delete
    5. "There's one fair county in Ireland, it's the county of Armagh!"20 February 2018 at 17:31

      Did Amy put out a statement about Rory and McCamley or did they both just exit stage left?

      Is it probable that they saw each other on the same sites? I'm not suggesting they met but one could have seen the other's profile and "bits & bobs". That would be so embarrassing.

      Delete
  26. Yesterday, some people shared how they were victims of homophobic attacks- I came across this piece in today's Irish Independent.

    Just wondering Pat, if you were ever the victim of Homophobic attacks?

    First Dater Jamie reveals he told attackers to 'hit me harder' when he was being 'queer-bashed' after coming out-


    First Dates Ireland participant Jamie opens up in tonight's episode about being 'queer-bashed' after coming out at 16 years old.



    Restaurant manager Jamie (35) tell his date Anthony (30) that he would ask his attackers to hit him harder to make them look stupid and because he refused to let them hurt him in the long run.

    Welshman Jamie has been living in Ireland for five years and on his date with Canadian Anthony he says, "It wasn't all roses" about coming out in his hometown.

    "I came out at a time when it wasn’t the done thing to do. I got queer-bashed quite a few times as well. Just smile and laugh, always smile and laugh. Go ‘yeah, punch me again, hit me harder. What are you proving by doing it? It has taken seven of you to punch me in the face to prove you are a bigger man than me'.”


    It was never one person, Jamie says, but rather groups trying to prove that they were “bigger or harder” than him or that they were “somehow more of a man” than him because they were straight.

    “I used to stand there and laugh and ask them to hit me harder,” he says, “Because in my head, if I am standing there laughing at you and asking you for more, you are not hurting me, I am just making you look stupid.


    "It hurt the next morning but on a principle level and a mindset level, they achieved nothing by doing that and actually I could stand there and say: 'you didn’t really hurt me in the grand scheme of things. If anything it made me a lot stronger about who I am as a person'.”

    ReplyDelete
  27. We have a right to our opinion but not to our facts. Facts are facts and history shows that the priesthood is based on false claims. Coyle is no more a priest than Nelson Mandela. https://www.amazon.com/Why-Priests-Tradition-Garry-Wills/dp/0143124390 Garry Wills poses the challenging question: Why did the priesthood develop in a religion that began without it and, indeed, was opposed to it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Could you expand on your post...not by referring me to a website, please.

      I'm genuinely interested.

      Delete
    2. It didn't "begin without it" though, poster @ 13.31
      Spurious ill-informed nonsense from you.

      Delete
  28. The priest in our parish was ordained in the 1960's. He left the ministry, married and has 2 grown up sons. After his wife died, he applied to join the diocese and was accepted.
    I love to see him saying Mass. His sermons are so down to earth. He speaks from his own experience.
    The queues outside his box for confession are always full.
    He is an inspiration to many.
    I wish Pope Francis would let all priests marry.

    ReplyDelete
  29. @13.25 I suppose it is for Pat to decide if he wants to maintain his compassion.
    I just noted what I saw. we are all human after all. Who hasn't made mistakes?
    I think that Pat is can show compassion and that's what I saw today.
    Thankfully the days of name-calling are over.
    I hope we have all moved on.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is a substantial difference between making an 'honest' mistake and deliberate and calculated serial moral misconduct.

      I should be worried if ever you were on a parole panel, evaluating whether to release a serial child molester.

      Delete
    2. Tomorrow and the next day and the next.... will tell the tale.

      Delete
    3. Magna @ 14.26: And we'd have real concern if you ever appeared on any interview panel - with your nastiness, prejudices, hatred, intolerance and loathing of all who disagree with you. Get real.

      Delete
  30. I think If there was a genuine conversion experience, anybody should be given another chance. But, somehow I doubt that's what we are dealing with here.

    ReplyDelete
  31. @ Sean, have you met many former RC priests who are now Anglicans. I've heard of one or two in Ireland but I imagine it happens more frequently over in England.
    What's the process like? I'm not a priest btw I'm just curious.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sean has asked you to email him through Pat so he can discuss these questions you have with you in more detail. Since yesterday you have been asking the same repetitive questions about Anglicans - for heavens sake do as he says and email him and spare us from this boring topic.

      Delete
    2. The ex-Anglican clergy now real priests far outnumber the renegades who flick Gin and Lace, usually cos theirs a woman in the background. Makes a pleasant change from FabGrind or Gingemix. I can never keep up with them all and their fancy names.

      Delete
    3. 14.18. As far as I know they present to the relevant Bishop who takes it from there

      Delete
  32. Interesting point @13.50 I think if Pope Francis let all the priests who left ministry to return with their wives and families it would end the vocations shortage over night.
    And I would also include those who are in same-sex relationships.
    I really think we need to think out-side the box on this issue.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All the priests who abandoned their vows/promises/pledges to obedience,poverty, implied chastity yet didn't are now as old as tea. What young man would follow them that? It would be crazy.

      Delete
  33. I see Catherine Nevin has died, RIP

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What da fook has this got to do with anything here?

      Delete
  34. Came across a wonderful piece on the bbc web-site about a lesbian couple who fooled Spain's Catholic church:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43057841

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great piece. I see it's also covered by the Daily Mail. And they hate gay people and the Catholic church.

      Delete
    2. I enjoyed this tale very much.

      Delete
    3. They only two people the followed with themselves. That was not Holy Matrimony. Those two women were never married to one another. A Catholic marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

      Delete
    4. This story gave me a god laugh :)
      Could brighten you up on an otherwise dreary day.

      Delete
  35. Personally...my opinion, what this man was up was not a mistake...if he had a partner be he could appear again..BUT NOT AS A PRIEST. He deceived his community..end of.
    I’m sure there is a job that he could earn his crust,but not near my sons.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I would have been more receptive to his return to ministry had he not reportedly been spouting the church's so called teaching on homosexuality at the same time as being an active Mo himself. Have they learned nothing from O'Brien's downfall. Seems not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 15:24 Is that actually true? What evidence is there?

      Delete
  37. Compassion is not just saying nice things.

    True compassion is saying difficult things when they need to be said and nice things when they need to be said.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sounds like most readers seem to be experiencing compassion fatigue with Rory. But I've really enjoyed this ongoing scandal. I wonder what he'll do next?

      Delete
    2. Anyone who thinks Grindr equals compassion needs to go into the Central Mental for three years. It's a vicious, cruel world among us gays, lacking female compassion, no matter how friendly and jovial we appear at Prides. The cutting remarks afterwards would skin you.

      Delete
    3. 19.47 - Thank you Isle of Man. Very refreshing and honest comment revealing the underworld of viciousness on many social media apps ..... No one is safe from the cruelty and dehumanisation which occurs frequently...even on this blog, sadly.

      Delete
    4. 19:47, you get blocked after you send a picture don't you. you're a sensitive soul, bless.

      Delete
    5. 21:55 proved my point.

      Delete
  38. Seems lots of gay priests interpret celibacy as just a canon law promise not to marry, and then go on to explore their sexuality.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Doesn't bother me as long as they're careful not to make sexual morality a priority in their sermons.

      It seems Rory hasn't been and now reaping the whirlwind (which is also a gay sexual position, apparently, in which one partner is tied to a chandelier. The other partner is on a trampoline.)

      Delete
    2. what kind of parties have you been to 17:03!!

      Delete
  39. I am much more of a Buddhist when it comes to compassion.
    Paul Gilbert is a fantastic author on his subject.
    Maybe you Catholic might not like me to say that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 16.07: There are some wonderful authors who write about compassion. But don't forget the story of the Good Samaritan as told by Jesus. If this compassion - "the accompanying of people/walking with them" - was practised more, we'd have better, more caring, welcoming and kinder communities. All religions have much to say about compassion...Just imagine if Christ's vision of compassion was seen here on this blog...Just imagine!! Read Richard Rohr, Daniel O'Leary, Henri Nouwen, Mother Theresa, Dalai Lama and many others..... (All religious leaders and writers).

      Delete
  40. @16.03 Sean, thanks for your piece about being part of the Anglican faith.
    I don't know much about it at all, so it was refreshing to hear your piece.
    Thanks :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 16.34: What the hell is special about Sean defecting to the Anglican faith? We're getting a little bit bored with all this and he doesn't bring any exciting, visionary ideas about renewal. There are lots of problems in the Anglican Church, so let's not pretend it's the perfect Church. Since we have been discussing issues around SAFEGUARDING, Pat has nOt yet informed us about who his Child Safeguarding Person is or if he has one, since his Church is a place of gathering and how comprehensive is his policy? Transparency and accountability are also required of you Pat!

      Delete
    2. How could anyone get bored with Anglicanism? So much varietas!

      My grandmother used to tell me that the most respected person in her town ( of the long name) in Roscommon was the C Of I vicar.

      So keep that in mind, Fr. Page! Multos Annos!

      Delete
    3. I just about remember the last vicar in Castlerea Rev Holtby. His wife lived near us after he died.

      Delete
  41. If you think Buddhism and compassion go hand in hand, you may want to think again, given what has allegedly bee hsppening in Sri Lanka.

    Buddhism does not eschew violence, anymore than have other faiths.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Buddhists are surprisingly violent.

      Delete
  42. I also felt connected with Sean's contribution. I spent many years in ministry before considering a change. It was easier than I thought it would be, saying that, there were difficulties, upsets, lonely moments but I don't regret it for a moment.
    I wish you all the best for your ordination, Sean

    ReplyDelete
  43. Any truth in the rumour that Fr. Tom Deenihan has resigned from ministry with immediate effect?

    ReplyDelete
  44. He was required to resign with immediate effect? Who'll rule Cork and Ross now? The nominal bishop takes to his bed every afternoon.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Any scandal attached the rumours? We're all getting a bit tried of Rory.

      Delete
    2. The scandal of the mentally weak bishop and the secretary who ran his diocese into the ground, crushing morale like it was sin to enjoy your ministry. I sincerely hope Tom is gone.
      PP.

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    3. Oh, only that. :(

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  45. Goodness. +Pat will find out for us soon enough.

    ReplyDelete
  46. There's nothing as pure as a reformed whore.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ... or in this case, as pure as a reformed ontological whore.

      Delete
  47. The Catholic Herald also reports that the current Pope has been quietly lifting the laicisations of paedo priests, all in the name of "mercy". Wonder what the victims think?

    ReplyDelete
  48. A paedophile is always a paedophile.
    You would think that the pope wd know that by now
    There is no cure.

    ReplyDelete