Saturday, 24 March 2018

O'BRIEN - FLAWED OR PREDATOR?



IN RECENT DAYS ON THIS BLOG QUITE A NUMBER OF "CHURCH DEFENDERS" HAVE TRIED TO MAKE THE CASE THAT KEITH O'BRIEN OF EDINBURGH WAS NOT A "BAD MAN" BUT SIMPLY A "FLAWED MAN".

Let us define these words:


 According to the dictionary, a flawed man is a man "having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection".

Whereas, a predator is spoken of as "a person who ruthlessly exploits others".

Was Keith O'Brien simply flawed - or was he a ruthless predator?


If Keith O'Brien had been a flawed man he might:


1. Have had the habit of being lazy.

2. Had the habit of always been late for Mass and meetings?

3. Been careless about his personal hygiene.

4. Not keeping good records.

5. Not replying to letters and telephone calls.

6. Neglecting his general or dental health.

etc, etc..................


But that is not the level of misbehaviour that Keith O'Brien was involved in. 

Instead, he had the habit of constantly trying to sexually seduce young seminarians and priests.

It is claimed that he even used the Confessional or confessional situations to seduce these young men.

He tried to sexually seduce young men over whom he exercised enormous if not total authority and power.

And, worst of all, in my mind, on the day he was made a cardinal by the pope in Rome, he tried to sexually grope a young priest attending the cardinalate celebration!




In other words, fresh from St. Peter's, when he had been created a cardinal, a  prince of the church, responsible for providing the church with its future popes, all he had on his mind was to get his hands on the genitals of a good-looking young priest at the party!




This is NOT a flawed behaviour. This is absolutely arrogant and irresponsible predatorial behaviour of the kind that Keith O'Brien's mate Jimmy Saville practised.

All of us are sexual beings. All of us have experienced being attracted to handsome and good-looking young strangers. 

But some sense of wrongness and inappropriateness inside us STOPS us behaving like an out of control hound in the presence of a bitch on heat!

But Keith O'Brien had no such sense of appropriate behaviour. He had fondled and groped his way to the top and now at the top, he had no sense of shame or proper behaviour.

There is a history in the Roman Catholic Church of recognition of serious sexual crimes called CRIMEN SOLLICITATIONIS  - CRIMES OF SOLICITATION.




At various times these CRIMEN SOLLICITATIONIS have attracted various severe punishments from The Vatican like deprivation of office and reduction to the lay state.

Keith O'Brien was guilty of Crimen Sollicitationis over a long period and all that happened to him was that he got promoted from priest to archbishop and to cardinal - showing that the higher office you hold in the Church the less likelihood is of you being properly punished.

Of course, God can and does forgive Crimen Sollicitiatonis and hopefully for Keith he has already experienced that forgiveness and is in Heaven.

However, let us not rush to canonise him on earth.

Rather, let us ask ourselves honestly what made him and other priests and bishops like him into predators. 


AND

Let us not hear from those RC's - clerical and otherwise - who wish to minimise the harm Keith O'Brien did to his victims over many decades. 

Eating your dinner with your hands may be a FLAW in some cultures  - but a cardinal grabbing a young priest by the genitals under the dome of St. Peter's is NOT A SIMPLE FLAW.

It is a predatorial behaviour of the worst kind. 

And it makes me wonder what kind of faith and spirituality Keith O'Brien had.

Someone who believes that the bones of St Peter are in St Peter's does not grab other people's genitals a few hundred yards from those bones!


THE TIMES   20.3.18


 “What is the Pope thinking? O’Brien is appalling!” whispered a Scottish priest down the telephone to a Catholic journalist. It was October 2003 and Pope John Paul II had just made the loud-mouthed Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh a cardinal. He was the third Scot to bear that rank since the Reformation.
The Most Reverend Keith O’Brien had a reputation for indiscretion. He once called a distinguished Italian prelate “that wee fat guy”. While drunk at priestly gatherings, he often removed his shirt.
He was also outspoken. Often called “the Cardinal of Controversy”, he rarely bridled his tongue. He said a proposed sex education programme for Scottish schools was “child abuse”. A law introduced by Gordon Brown to allow experiments with embryos was “Nazi-style” and compared to “Frankenstein”. But O’Brien kept his strongest criticism for the legalisation of gay marriage, declaring this “a grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right”. In 2012 the gay rights charity Stonewall named O’Brien “bigot of the year”.
The news that O’Brien allegedly had a long-term male lover, also a priest, caused rather a lot of eyebrows to be raised and jaws to be dropped, not least those of the 750,000 Scot Catholics he represented.
In late 2012, for reasons still unclear, his lover revealed the relationship to the Vatican. Summoned to Rome, O’Brien was informed that he would resign the next March, on turning 75, the traditional age for archbishops to step down.
O’Brien’s sex life might, however, have remained a closed book, but for a chance meeting between two Scots. One was a priest, the second had left the priesthood. They knew each other, but were not close. As they chatted, they discovered a shared experience of sexual advances from the cardinal. The first priest revealed that O’Brien, while offering him counselling, had instigated a sexual relationship. The second man alleged that, when he was a 20-year-old trainee priest at St Andrew’s College, Drygrange, he received an “inappropriate” approach from O’Brien just after bedtime prayers. He discovered that two other priests had also received unwanted sexual advances. A picture was emerging.
Each man assumed his experience of O’Brien, dating back to the 1980s, was unique. Each had kept silent. “You have to understand the relationship between a bishop and a priest,” explained one. “At your ordination, you take a vow to be obedient to him. He’s more than your boss. He has immense power over you. He can move you, freeze you out, bring you into the fold . . . He controls every aspect of your life.”
Tales emerged of O’Brien even grooming vulnerable young men for sexual contact while listening to their confessions. Drawing strength from each other, the men decided to make official complaints to Rome. “We couldn’t have acted alone because Keith was too powerful,” one said. “It’s not a gay thing,” said another of the four. “He’s a predator.”
Three days after they sent formal written statements to the papal nuncio, Pope Benedict XVI resigned, triggering a conclave to elect the next Pope. As a cardinal, O’Brien was allowed to vote. A response from the papal nuncio praised the men’s “courage”, but indicated that it might be easier for the Vatican to deal with O’Brien while he was in Rome.
The disappointed men contacted The Observer, who emailed the allegations to the cardinal’s press office. Asked if O’Brien had broken his vow of priestly celibacy, a spokesman replied that the cardinal contested the claims, but said that he was consulting his lawyers.
Given the strength of the men’s accounts of O’Brien’s behaviour, which included “kissing, groping” and “fondling”, with one statement being five pages long, the newspaper decided to publish. It was February 23, 2013; 36 hours later O’Brien had resigned. He issued a statement acknowledging that his sexual conduct “had fallen below the standard expected of me as a priest, archbishop and cardinal”. He asked the Catholic Church and the people of Scotland for forgiveness.
Pope Francis dispatched the Vatican’s leading sex abuse investigator, Bishop Charles Scicluna, to meet the victims and start an official inquiry. O’Brien, meanwhile, was ordered by the Vatican to leave Scotland “for the purpose of spiritual renewal, prayer and penance”. Some felt the punishment insufficient.
He moved to the Northumbrian pit village of Ellington, where he was seen walking his dog or sometimes meeting Scottish visitors. In Scotland aggrieved Catholics observed that the supposedly cash-strapped archdiocese of Edinburgh and St Andrews had found the money to buy O’Brien a bungalow.
Keith Patrick O’Brien was born in Ballycastle, Co Antrim, in 1938. When he was a child, his father, who was in the Royal Navy, moved the family to Scotland, where O’Brien attended school in Dumbarton. In 1959 he graduated from Edinburgh University with a bachelor’s degree in maths and chemistry. Rejected twice for the priesthood because of a heart murmur, in 1965, at the age of 26, he was ordained a priest for the archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh.
In 1978, after a spell in parishes in Fife, Stirlingshire and West Lothian, O’Brien was appointed spiritual director at St Andrew’s College, Drygrange. From 1980-85 he was also rector of St Mary’s College, the junior seminary in Blairs, near Aberdeen. He was later faced with allegations of at least 40 occasions of sexual misconduct. “The emotional and psychological power Keith O’Brien had over me was incredible,” one of his victims later said. “He was utterly manipulative.”
Little appeared to stem O’Brien’s dizzy ecclesiastical ascent. In 1985 he was appointed Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh. Seventeen years later he had become president of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Scotland. In 2005 O’Brien went to Rome to attend the papal conclave that elected Pope Benedict XVI.
He was known for his fiery attacks on proposed government legislation. O’Brien criticised the introduction of civil partnerships in the UK and the liberalisation of divorce laws in Scotland.
A Scottish philosopher praised O’Brien for speaking out “regardless of what people will think” and said this reflected “the Scottish temperament . . . We just like an argument.” It was observed that his counterpart in England, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, was chilly towards the Scot, and more diplomatic with the government.
O’Brien favoured Scottish independence and was a drinking friend of Alex Salmond. The Spectator accused him of turning the Scottish Catholic Church into “the episcopal wing of the SNP”. Judiciously, O’Brien indicated his dislike of sectarianism by placing a photograph of the Rangers FC striker Ally McCoist between a photograph of the Pope and another of Mother Teresa.
A day before the Observer’s revelations, O’Brien told the BBC that the church should re-examine its teaching on celibacy for the clergy.
His resignation prompted talk that a “gay cabal” within the clergy, infuriated by O’Brien’s public damning of homosexuality, had sought his downfall. The victims, one of whom has a wife, rejected this. Another said that he was motivated by “the bigger picture: the cleansing of the church”. None was consoled by an early response from the papal nuncio saying that, while O’Brien had “made mistakes”, he had also done “a lot of good”.
They were also angry that the findings of the Vatican inquiry, said to be “hot enough to burn the varnish off the Pope’s desk”, had not been divulged. All the victims accused church officials of having “passed the buck, misrepresented the truth, engaged in cover-up and shamelessly procrastinated”.
Reports that O’Brien had bought costly jet-skis as a birthday gift for a “pal” led to a request that the archdiocese should investigate O’Brien’s financial affairs.
The anger was exacerbated when O’Brien sent friends cards with photographs showing him still dressed as a cardinal. “Keith was power-hungry,” declared one of his victims. “Now he is a wounded lion, but I’d like to see them remove his teeth and claws.”

In 2015 his wish was granted. O’Brien, allegedly after a push from Pope Francis, finally resigned his “rights and duties” as a cardinal, the first cardinal to do so since 1927. He retained his rank only by name.


108 comments:

  1. The Cardinal was harshly judged in life and now in death. He made mistakes and he repented.

    We need to recognise he was a sinner, like all of us. He sinned and he was sorry for those sins.

    He is with our Lord now - he who shall be the only one to cast judgement.

    May he rest in eternal peace.

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    1. It is not a mistake oBrian made, nor was he flawed.
      He was a grave sinner, he was so much more than a grave sinner.
      He was a total hypocrite, never should have been ordained.
      He encouraged gay activity where celibacy was supposed to be.
      He not be referred to as a cardinal either here.nor should a cardinal be officiating at his funeral, whoever the local priest is there at the burial parish should have the difficult job...done in a quiet manner.

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  2. There is no Salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church

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    1. ...but within it, there is damnation.😆 (Thought that was a good 'un'.)

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  3. I don't think he was a predator as it suggests he was drawn to violence. I don't think he was flawed either. He was just in the wrong job... big time!

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  4. He probably had more willing than unwilling partners, but he just didn't know when to stop and ended up... well, you know.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1VgcxE9Lpw

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  5. O Brien has died. He was what he was. Rambling about him at this stage is futile. It causes anger and may may result in a lot of posts. Many of them may be having a go at each other instead of concentrating on the real issue the church itself. As I may not be posting over the next week may I wish everyone a blessed Easter Time

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    1. Thanks, Sean. Same to you, and your family.

      Would you think of making a post or two on Anglican liturgical services in Holy Week? Would love to hear about them.

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    2. Magna at 11.35: Why not take yourself to the nearest Anglican Church! Are you afraid to come outdoors? Make the journey. I promise not to laugh at you!! But, leave the bottle behind!

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    3. 11.35 Will do. We are in Leeds First few days is college Easter Triduum is retreat

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    4. Can't, old boy.😢 Very busy week ahead: things to do, places to go, people to see. It's why I'd like Sean's input.

      Wouldn't you?😆

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    5. Yes I’d like to hear Sean’s input also.

      PS I’ve been to many Anglican services in St Paul’s in London. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to hear more on here. OK?

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  6. Pat, the big story now in Scotland which is slowly bubbling to the surface is the Fr Paul Moore child abuse scandal. The whole story surrounding that involves deceit, cover up, the actions of 3 bishops, the Fr Pat Lawson business etc.
    When the whole sordid business comes out it will make KOB look like an angel!!!
    The stink here will be overpowering.

    Ayr Andy

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    1. Andy Ayr have you been sleeping the Paul Moore story was weeks ago at the High Court in Glasgow and the media covered it and Bishop Bill Nolan issued a "Sorry " so next stage of the Paul Moore Saga is the Sentencing on 11th April for the 3 charges against the boys and sexual assault against Pat Lawson.

      Todays BIG story is in the Sunday Mail where Philip Tartaglia is paying for Counselling for a 11 year old who was allegedly raped 35 years ago by Gerry Nugent 35 years ago and is now seeking compensation however remember the young Lady they found under the Church floor and Mario Conti gave him a Bishop's burial I wonder if Conti is feeling like McAreavey but NO Conti will have a big funeral and buried in Saint Andrew's Cathedral when really he should be treated like KOB.

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    2. I know the case was last week but there is about to be a big fallout over this. Watch this space, as they say.

      Ayr Andy

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  7. Pat, haven't you said enough already about Cardinal O' Brien?. Your obsession for days about the life and times of this man. Yes, he was flawed, yes he did break his sacred vows, yes he did admit his serious ertors of jdgment and errant behaviour. His sexual crimes were wrong. For all of this he publicly owned up and was deeply humiliated. I hope those he abused are coping well and are on their journey of healing and forgiveness. Enough judgment, analysis and condemnation has been expressed. Keith O' Brien was indeed a flawed man but was also capable of much good which I'm sure he carried out. You, Pat, are in no position to continue parsing to pieces this man, you have no great moral authority to sit as judge, jury and executioner. I find your obsession with the Cardinal to be behaviour that is nasty, vengeful and uncharitable. Your self righteousness is nauseatingly self serving. On this Palm Sunday, perhaps you might carefully read St. Mark's passion nartative. I'd have great difficulty in imagining you carrying the cross like Simon of Cyrene. Somehow, I have visions of you among the baying crowd, jeering, ridiculing and cheerleading the lynch mob!!

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    1. I'm sorry, but O'Brien was much more than flawed, since he exhibited enough characteristics of sociopathy. In a word, he was 'dangerous'.

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    2. Much good? For example.

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    3. Magna, 11.37: You say, in a word, he (kO'B) was 'dangerous'. Yes, and in a word, you too are 'dangerous' - with vengance, bigotry, nastiness and hatred - by which you 'abuse' others. Yes, ABUSE.

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    4. Magna you are in no fit state to judge anyone. If anything is dangerous it's your vile gob. What is it today I wonder? Vodka, Brandy or both.

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  8. The man is dead. He is not capable of harming any one else. He was part of a culture which thinks it is superior to its fellow man. A culture which thinks it has the right to God like power over people. That culture is collapsing. It is going through the dark night of the soul. It is being forced to face it's shadow.

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    1. You are wrong: that 'culture' attracted sociopathic personalities, like O'Brien. And those personaliteis will have promoted like-minded people in the Church. Therefore that 'culture' will continue indefinitely, but perhaps less explicitly. An instructive metaphor for this is the fact that prelates in Rome, given widespread criticism of the lavish lifestyle of certain clerics, are driving around Rome in less expensive cars. But their limousines are not gone, just garaged for another day.

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    2. @ 9.53
      "..its shadow..."

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  9. It is beyond my comprehension that Pat is analysing Keith O Brien so much yet again, having done so in recent days. Somehow Pat likes juicing up stories. The juicier the better! While I deplore any abuse, sexual or otherwise of the late Cardinal and have every sympathy for victims/survivors, I find the 24 hour on-going crucifixion and explicit details disturbing. I was once abused by a family friend and that haunted me for a long time but through therapy I overcame the trauma. However, every time papers or blogs like this continue to repeat ad infinitum explicit details of any abuse story, the memories surface and that brings much pain. While I understand the appetite for the juicy details, we should also remember the survivors, first and foremost. I have found my peace but that's a grace each survivor finds in time. Beating Keith O Brien into the ground will not ever bring healing to survivors. I dislike the pseudo psychology which Pat plays with. There is something very unsavoury about this obsession with the sexual misdeeds of others and Cardinal O Brien was found to have feet of clay and human flaws. It's as if some inner, weird sexual desires are being acted out by some, including Pat. On this most sacred day, Palm Sunday, I leave Keith to God's redeeming mercy. And I hope Christ will accompany all survivors. Much of what is written here is motivated by a vengeful mind set. Rarely, if ever, do survivors find help through this approach.

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    1. The Blog was a reply to comment makers saying that he was "flawed".

      I think abuse is more serious than that.

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    2. @10:14 as I read your words, I can’t help thinking/feeling that you are lying - that you are pretending to be a survivor - and pretending to care about survivors.

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    3. If you are one of their own they look after you in life and in death.

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    4. 10 58: Re: my 10.14 piece. I can assure you my experience of abuse is REAL. You are truvialising and minimising my experience simply because I have a different way of navigating my way through the effects of what happened to me. My trauma is nothing compared to others but the memory is still there. I find reading analysis of abuse traumas difficult. While necessary, the telling of such can reignite painful memories. I know, I can assure you but beating the Cardinal diesn't satisfy my healing.

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    5. @10:14 and 11:25, do you have a tv in your house? Or a radio? You will get far more to trigger on those, than you will on this blog.

      There are no explicit details on this blog in any case and the simple and SENSIBLE thing for you to do, if you are as adversely affected as you are claiming to be, would be to STAY WELL CLEAR of this blog, wouldn’t it???

      But you won’t stay away because you are too nosey. You’re afraid of missing something that titilates you maybe?

      You are also very annoyed that Keith O’Brien is being analysed. Why is that I wonder? He got off lightly. He had a life time of privilege and selfish gratification. He had his cake and he ate it as well.

      He was only called to book towards the end and hopefully it has helped towards the salvation of his soul.

      You wouldn’t happen to be a priest living a double life yourself now, would you? Is that the problem?

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    6. 14.56: You are simply an ignoramus. Irrespective of my professional background my comments earlier are legitimate and clear. I do not condone anyone's abuse of power, sexually or otherwise and find any abuse reprehensible. Until you have experienced abuse of any kind yourself, particularly of a sexual nature, your silly, uneducated, glib, smart comments add nothing to genuine debate. Your attitude of desiring more and more villification or lynching of the deceased Cardinal does nothing for the survivors of abuse. It merely satisfies your appetite for gossip. Your mindset foments hatred not healing and is a gross disservive to justice and truth.

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    7. 16:57 - Nah - something doesn’t add up about you.

      Stay away from Pat Buckley’s blog if you don’t like what you read on it.

      People are adults here and they don’t want rants from sanctimonious prats like you with your false outrage and faux indignation.

      Clear off. (You won’t though, will you? And we all know why) ;-)

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    8. 23:34 Your replies to the person who says they were abused are shocking in the extreme. You sound like a right-wing vigilante who puts your ideology above trstimony of a person eho has said three times here that they are a victim of abuse. The fact that you choose not yo believe them is cynicism personified. Utterly disgusting.

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  10. Edinburgh Priest25 March 2018 at 10:48

    There are many more victims of Keith O'Brien to come forward.

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    1. some people are afraid of their own shite. If your an adult and someone tries to molest or sexually intimidate you, then you have a duty if not an obligation to go to the Police and tell them. forget all this shite about being afraid of church authority. get in your car or walk to the police station, and remember we have a media in the western world who can report things if needs be. sick to death of all these adult victims coming forward with stories. If you were so concerned about Keith you should have aired your concerns much sooner. If he came near me he would have got a belt in the face. man the f*ck up!

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    2. It's not about "beating" Keith O Brien.

      It's about acknowledging the whole truth of what happened.

      This false "respect" for the dead is really about continuing the denial and cover up.

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    3. I know it is being cynical but, unless there is some compensation involved, I don’t think they will.

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    4. More to come forward? For what purpose and why not sooner? If you really are an Edinburgh Priest you will know all 4 of his accusers as I do and you will also know what kind of people they all are (particularly ‘S’). Enough said.

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    5. Edinburgh Priest. I am in the Archdiocese of Saint Andrew's and Edinburgh so let them ALL come forward and lets see them be counted as where are they oh I forgot they are still saying Holy Mass and yet some think it is kool and to come to the LGBTI pub s and clubs and have partners good for them.
      If you live in the Archdiocese you must have been sleeping as this all started over a power struggle after the Papal visit for the Auxiliary Bishop and sadly None of them got it or plum parishes yes it was totally wrong for KOB to say he would see the in crowd OK but sadly it did not happen.
      That's how Auxiliary Bishop Robson was moved to Dunkeld so big it is all Church politic.
      Sadly two involved in the full saga have now went to meet their God and I hope they have a merciful judgement.

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    6. @ 11.24
      "...if you're and adult.."

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    7. I apologise for that error . It should be '.. if you're an adult.. "

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    8. 10.48: Edinburgh Priest. Why didn't you and your colleagues express your concerns before now, that's if such "concerns" exist and that you are a priest! Many of the said 'victims' are supposedly living their own gay lifestyles. What hypocrisy and moral cowardice. The story stinks and the priests who make allegations but live contrary to their vows are doing a grave injustice to genuine victims of abuse. I find the comments of some re: the late Cardinal both incredulous and hypocritical.

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  11. Edinburgh Priest, if there are many more, then WTF have they not spoken up long ago ! I really do not buy in to this business of delaying telling / reporting something that has harmed you, usually it is said because the person is so traumatised ! I can perhaps understand that about little kids, but O'Brien's interests were in grown men, who surely could have said something if they did not like what was happening ? But, now, we have all sorts of people 'remembering' that O'Brien was horrible and abusive to them. Oh, get a life ! If it was so bad, and you were so badly hurt, you should have screamed the bloody house down when it happened. Leaving it until now seems highly suspect, and a bit like jumping on the wagon.

    I'm not sure if most people know what abuse is. An affectionate grope, an over tight hug, a kiss - is that abuse ? Is that something that traumatises people ? No ! Only if they decide that want to be traumatised. Some people are just not sufficiently manly and robust about life, and see insult and injury and abuse all over the place. Again, get a life !

    The other night I watched a programme about some 'slebs' doing the Compostela walk. Including one mouthy female vicar, northern accent, "I'm so chippy and funny type". A good advert for NOT ordaining females, even though in principle I am in favour of female priests, as well as married priests. One of the others was a black female, the sort you see at 20 paces and think, "she's trouble", you know full of attitude and ready to take umbrage and offence at the slightest thing. Looking for it infact. And, yes, it happened. Some poor Spanish volunteer upset her, it seems because of a language misunderstanding, but God, was she going to make the most of it. You know, "I'm black and I'm victim" sort of thing. She definitely is trouble and I would keep far away from her because anything you do or say will be interpreted through the "I'm black and I'm victim" filter. And there are so many other people who just look to be a victim, including the many that the Edinburgh Priest is saying will come forward now. Most will not have been properly abused, but most will assume that they have, because that is the way they see themselves. And O'Brien will get blamed for every little show of affection or kindness or insignificant action he did.

    And we have to sit there and nod very compassionately and tell them we believe them and that they are so brave, and whatever they say is taken at face value and believed. We live in the age of the victim, and if you decide you are a victim then you get a lot of attention, and what you say is believed. And other people get damaged because of what you say. It's a dangerous culture and time.

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    1. Well Said and the thing is some of these alleged "Victims" are still saying Mass and as other people on here have said have boyfriends or encounters that is these same guys in their 20's to 50's who were at the parties and so on BUT these same guys will this week will be renewing their Vows at the Mass of Chrism.
      No wonder Cushley wants back to Rome.
      these were consenting guys KOB seemed to have made his victims but one should really look at themselves.
      I have NO time for abuse of any kind but let God be the True judge he knows the facts.
      I will be at the Memorial Mass on the 19th April alongside many other's at His Cathedral.

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    2. I remember what can only be described as being sexually assaulted in the late sixties when I would have been about nineteen or twenty.

      A waiter about the same age came into the hotel office where I was working querying a bill, or something, and proceed to feel my crotch at the same time.

      Even though I am gay, I went into shock, didn’t know what to do, where to look, and just carried on as if nothing happened. It was a horrible experience. I never told anybody.

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    3. Well all this is eye-opening in different ways. Reading the words "affectionate grope" I thought of Alan Bennett's brilliant play, "The History Boys", about a flawed but brilliant teacher who loves his charges not wisely but too well. At one time a female colleagues says to him: "A grope is a grope, not an annunciation!" A grope means to grab another's genitals without their consent -- some men use it as a crude technique of seduction (one of them is currently the most famous person in the world) -- others do it for a lark -- and of course there are milieux and locales where what would be an outrageous gesture could be quite within the boundaries of expected behaviour -- for example the bunny party at the Dorchester that threw the British public into one of their fits of moral frenzy.

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  12. It is unfortunate that the blog owner has no understanding of crimen sollicitationis which refers only to a confessional context.

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    1. O Brien used the confessional to seduce.

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    2. “Night prayers” were also often used a precursor for “misconduct." I read that at the time of his downfall and disgrace.

      I only heard about the confessional-peep-show-booth the other day on here.

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  13. 'An affectionate grope'? 'An over tight hug'? 'A kiss'? And you ask: is that abuse?

    You make me suspicious, whoever you are.

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    1. I always preferred it in the reverse; kiss, hug, and grope...

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  14. I was out and about on the gay scene in Edinburgh between 1978 to 1988 when Keith O’Brien would have been in her prime (40-50 years old). But I never come across him or even heard him being discussed, e.g., top/bottom, big/small/party-size, cut/uncut; you know, the sort of thing gays talk about all the time.

    He must have kept his activities in-house, but I suppose that wouldn’t have been too difficult if priesthood is an estimated 80 percent gay. He must have been living high on the hog.

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  15. The 2 main Dioceses in Scotland are rife with actively homosexual Priests, the others less so. Fact. There is a homosexual cleek operating across Scotland. Fact. We all know who they are and it’s only a matter of time before more names are leaked out. Fact. I wonder if this will all ever go away. Look at the my own Archdiocese of Glasgow for example. There is a significant number of brother Priests, some who are in fairly senior positions, who have been absolutely rampant over the years and I know of one who has been in a sexual relationship with another for over 25 years, I know others who enjoy the sauna scene. Does this make them bad Priests? I have found all my gay brothers to be good, kind and caring Pastors. God has a plan to sort everything out I am sure.

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    1. 12.08 one of them has passed away but the two of them are still in parishes in the Archdiocese and it seems still very active they should really look at themselves but we will wait and see if Cushley gives the younger one a plum parish as the other is well in his 60's so likely get a smaller parish.
      12.22 the events were all in Parishes Houses in the East and in the West.
      12.24 you are 100% correct but they are walking on eggshells waiting for the bubble to burst this is partly the reason for rationing the Parishes.
      It must be horrible to be a Bishop in Scotland as out of 8 Diocese only ONE has had no scandal that being Paisley.

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    2. He-virgins by day, he-whores by night. It's the vilest hypocrisy.

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    3. Toal in Scotland is a major Madam.

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    4. Wasn't he Matthew Despard's pimp?

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    5. 13:20 the person who can’t write standard English. All of your posts stand out a mile for their right-wing clap trap and writing to the nuncio. Get your letters proofread first. Then mind your own business about the sexual lives of everyone else.

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    6. I do not need my facts proof read I am sure the Nuncio and Rome understands them very well and you must as well since you are so annoyed,
      maybe your one of the clergy I am taking about in Edinburgh or outside the Capital.
      The nets are coming in +Leo is well aware of it all and it will all be addressed his priority just now is to make the Archdiocese financially stable and parish situation then he in style will address the issue.
      Also the New Nuncio is certainly nothing like the last he stands NO double standard clergy.

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  16. Still don't get how having sex prevents ministry?
    If celibacy didn't exist would we be so harsh on this fella? Leave him alone. RIP

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    Replies
    1. "If celibacy didn't exist" the married priest would be expected to be faithful to his one wife. One of the most characteristic teachings of the Catholic Church (and Christian denominations generally) is that any sexual act outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is morally repugnant and merits eternal damnation.

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    2. 16:17 Mist characteristic? Really? Do the eternally damned include all of the popes of the last millennium who had mistresses or male lovers - by definition outside of marriage. You don’t expect the good Lord to obey all your rules do you?

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  17. Fair play Buckley. You give us a great buzz. Keep up the good work.

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  18. Leave religion out of it. In any situation where the person in charge is open to receiving and rewarding sexual favours the only word is CORRUPTION.

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  19. Talk about Palm Sunday well Leo Cushley has offered an Olive branch to the Clergy, Religious and lay Faithful that HE will say Month's mind Memorial mass on the 19th April at 12.45 in Saint Mary's Cathedral talk about hypocrisy it does not have a look in with him and Vincent Nicoll's.


    It is Discussing Scotland has heard nothing from the President of the President of the Bishop's Conference Archbishop Philip Tartaglia and funeral arrangement are not even on his web site.


    Now the issue starts again East (Cushley) and West (Tartaglia) for the Cardinal of Scotland as Scotland has always been a Special Daughter of the Church but last few years the Holy See must be disgusted with Scotland but in September the Holy Father has their five year Visits about their wonderful diocese and it will not be good reading with Clergy problems , lack of clergy, falling numbers of lay faithful, parish closures or linkage and lack of finances it will not be good reading for the Congregations in Rome.


    They are sending Vinnie Nicolls to Newcastle to say the Requiem an unknown and he has even to be the Homilist as some of your blogs have said two wet fish Cushley and Nicolls so it will be a damp squib.

    however I wonder if Brady will attend or is he too ill.


    Finally as a stated on the ACP web Site some are upset about the los of a Funny Good Man and that is how they remember him however the Consensual clergy are still in post and it has been stated on this blog a few times about them so Cushley and Papal Nuncio Adams may have a lot of files for Rome after all the press did say the last files were would have stripped the vanish of the desk.


    If they have taken vows and will be renewing them this week at the Masses of Chrism some Clergy Scotland and England, Wales and Ireland should look at themselves in the mirror.

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    Replies
    1. More substandard English and right-wing gibberish!

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    2. It is now gibberish or right wing it is the FACTS of the Canon Laws of the Church.
      It is a shame that you maybe living a double life or maybe one of the original two left in the Archdiocese out of the original four.

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  20. So what’s the relevance of looking in the mirror ?

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    Replies
    1. 15.08 Clergy in Confessionals and saying holy Mass then out in Sauna's Lovers, Bars and so on they should look in the mirror at their double life !!!!!

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    2. @18.56 Some Clergy, not all. Major distinction - you and your ilk generalise.

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    3. 18.56: You ugly priest hater. You should have a reality check. Your ignorant generalisation is revealing of you as a peeping pervert. Takes one to know one!! Fool.

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    4. 18:56 Ditto. Go back to school.

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    5. 18:56 Go to Lough Derg and pray for a wife or a husband, whichever it is you ars looking for.

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    6. I got a man in Lough Derg years ago. I didn't know much about him before I went out with him except that he had nice feet. Anyway we're still together... I didn't ask him whether or not he had been praying for a woman ! I hope he thinks he got one...

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  21. 14.37, whoever you are, please be more articulate. You've presented unintelligible garbage - so poorly expressed. Are you such a perfect human being yourself?

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    Replies
    1. 14.37 couldn’t spell Vincent Nichols name correctly. How can we take him/her post seriously? I ask you?

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  22. +Cushley wants out of Scotland to return to Rome. He promised them 5 years and no more. His Clergy do not like him, the teaching profession have no time for him and few trust him. He has no compassion or people skills and looks down his nose at people. To preside at the MM Mass is total hypocrisy considering that he made no attempt to contact KOB until the day he died, the only purpose was to grab some positive PR for himself. The way he has dealt with complaints about Priests is also shocking, he adopts a “must be guilty” stance every time. I know of one Priest in our Diocese who was accused of something rather nasty and even although no case was found against him, Cushley still told him to leave and immediately cut off financial support. The first duty of any Bishop is to support his Priests, this does not happen in SA&E unless there is something in it for Leo. The day he leaves us will be the day that our Archdiocese can begin the renewal process. He has lost the Clergy and the teachers and the situation is irreversible. There is no point in writing to the Holy See as they love him and will just blame KOB for the mess. May the Lord bless our Diocese. We need help now.

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    Replies
    1. Cutting off financial support is very harsh. I know of a few English Priests who are looked after extremely well by their bishops - better than Scots or Irish Priests.

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    2. Yes, we believe you (not) their is not a English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish Bishop that provides anything for their priests. You are talking through your ar*e

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  23. It seems to me a lot of issues are caused by Bishops !
    Would it not be better for your message that you renounce being
    a Bishop , and go back to being a simple Priest? - and point the
    way to a church that is local with each local community of faithful
    calling down the Holy Spirit on those who they wish to serve them
    locally as a Deacon , or Priest ?

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  24. 17.21 + Leo is a great asset to the Holy Church and he comes with No scandal attached to him and now imposing the Iron discipline of the Church which has been absent for too long and now seen the results it is high time the clergy got back to celibate and Priestly lives.
    + Leo has came to an Archdiocese in disgrace up to its eyes in debt and scandal.
    The Laity in the Archdiocese has the right to expect Holy Priest who live their life according to their vows.
    Lets us Prat that Archbishop Leo can fulfil the wishes of the Holy See.

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    1. No scandal attached to him? Only +Pat has the authority to confirm that.

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    2. 20:37 Go back to school. Mind your own business.

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    3. More from the almost illiterate Scot who is obsessed with the sexual lives of everyone else. Are you not getting any?

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    4. I get plenty and Happy to be a Gay man and Did NOT take vows.
      Long may their live in fear as the double stand will be found out.

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    5. You can’t even write two sentences (literally) without dragging the English language down.
      As a man gay, bi or straight, you should have more to be doing than poking your nose into the bedrooms of other people.

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    6. 15:27 I’ve come to the conclusion that English is not your first language.

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  25. I hope there are mirrors in your house Pat! Oops silly me, it's not your house is it?

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    1. 21.19 That's a strange comment. Are you ok?

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    2. Funny fucker. Your probably one of the bitches causing problems in a Diocese. Coward. Pat will do more good than any of the hypocritical bishops in the Catholic Church.

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    3. Ignore this queer, +Pat.

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  26. Pat, I'm not sure if the blog today was really productive. There is so much corruption with people leading double lives and then making crucial decisions about others lives and ministries. I don't think we are meant to publicise or parse to try and see the full story of an abusive life. Surely we must keep something more edifying in front of us as much as possible. Until people face their maker they will deny as much as possible. We need something good to discuss.

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  27. Bishop Pat I am most annoyed that my wife and me are a laughing stock on this bog over the last few days. Our family said the same today at dinner. We saw a young priest in a eating house, dressed in a collar with a few women I still wonder who paid for the meal. He didn’t appear gay so I suppose that is something. Me and my wife pay our way, we are free to what we say think and do. We should be able to say what we think without being attacked.

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    1. Bit your wife went outside to see what car the priest was driving according to the blog. You'd stuck your nose where it didn't belong. So a priest in the company of women. He could have been with his family yet you want people not to attack you yet you make assumptions or have thoughts in a judgemental way because this guy was with women.

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    2. Whether he is gay or not is Nome of your business. @ 22.21.

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    3. 22:21 you and your aul doll need to seriously get a life! Two buck eejits is what ye are! Do you wear a dress as well as the wife? Two aul biddies out snooping and jookin at a young priest. Ye deserve everything ye get! ROFL

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    4. Scoff all you like! We are entitled to our opinions.

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    5. Ah come off it. That’s a parody of the original idiot. Easy to spot. You just want to provoke!!

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    6. 22.21: You idiot. You and your moth must be crackpots. Keep your face in yiur own bowl of goulash. As for you and that domineered moth, stop going to Church. Total hypocrites. If I thought you were for real, I'd throw bricks at your windows. Cry baby, cry.....

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  28. O'Brien reminds me very much of Abbot Cuthbert Brogan of Farnborough in so many, many ways.

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  29. +Pat, based on 76 comments (so far) can you deduce if he was flawed or a predator... or just a dirty old man?

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  30. 22.21 I It’s you and your wife. Horrible people, and yes, you are a laughing stock.

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    Replies
    1. With respect, to the Lord and to all, they are not horrible people. They are a little silly, jumping on a critical bandwagon a little. A few good comments about priests out and about and the freedom and respect and privacy they deserve instead of so many ridiculing comments would have sufficed. What are we like.

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  31. Pat you seem to be very obsesed with sex.

    So what if a priest or bishop was having sex with another man. Ok, some of it might not be asked for in the first place, but I am sure there is a sizable amount of those that priests and bishops are or were having sex with who did not complain. Without gay clergy there would not be many priests to celebrate mass. I am sure you could name a number of priests in all 26 diocese's who are gay (openly or secretly). I know you have named some of these men on your blog and even shared photos of some of them.

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    1. 23.30 Your comment is a little strange. It would be better if the number of clergy was reduced by 90% if that's what it takes to rid the priesthood of all those men who are unable to stop having sexual affairs, scandalising the faithful and bringing the church into further disrepute. It's a very serious offence. To my mind, Pat is not obsessed with sex, he is one of the few providing a space for a conversation about things which most others in authority seem in denial or want to keep hushed up - very serious things.

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  32. What do mean by openly or secretly.
    Some people are gay.
    Some people are heterosexual.
    A priest, no matter what his orientation, takes a vow of celibacy.
    What’s so difficult to understand here for you 23.30
    Your post seems to indicate that gay priests have sexual partners...openly or secretly...as a norm.
    A gay priest is allowed to be celibate you know, actually he takes a vow or a promise to be so...same as a heterosexual man.

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  33. The illiterate Scot who claims he is a gay man and is obsessed about the sexual lives of people and recommends denouncing peoppe to the nuncio and who has posted liberally here since KOB’s death must be a perverted psycho.

    ReplyDelete