Saturday, 31 March 2018

YOU HAVE TO CALL ME "FATHER"

JOHN "CALL ME FATHER" MC KEEVER

OUR ARMAGH YOUNG MAN, JAMES MC CONNELL - WHO WANTS TO DEFECT FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH - VISITED THE ARMAGH VICE CHANCELLOR JOHN MC KEEVER THIS WEEK TO SEEK ADVICE.

He was spoken to on the doorstep by the reverend gentleman who was wearing a formal three-piece suit on the way to "say a Mass in the prison".

James got a lecture from the young priest and was told to call him "Father" and not John.

According to McKeever the only ones who can call him "John" are his family and friends.




"When did the use of “Father” become a practice in the Catholic Church for ordained priests?
The answer is: much later than we might think!
The early church seems to have avoided any titles for Christians, except for the egalitarian “brother” and “sister.” Matthew’s gospel, which is very concerned about the rules of conduct within a Christian community, records this teaching of Jesus: “Call no one on earth your father, you have but one Father in heaven” (Matthew 23:9). Jesus seems to be suggesting that titles are a way of claiming rank over and above others and therefore were not proper for a disciple who sought to be a servant to all.

With the passage of time, however, the title “Father” crept into Christian etiquette as a way of describing the relationship of a priest or monk with those to whom he ministered. The custom arose among the followers of the monastic orders of St. Benedict to address the leader of a monastery as “abbot” and the leader of a convent as “abbess.” This word was a variation of the Aramaic word for father, “Abba.”

Bishops also began claiming the title “Father” to describe the nature of their teaching authority over a local church. In the Middle Ages, as the practice of making a private confession to a priest grew, priests who served as confessors were called “Father.” So were mendicant friars like the Franciscans and Dominicans.

Despite these precedents, the use of “Father” as the normal title for ALL priests, whether attached to a diocese or members of a religious order, is a very recent practice. It originated in Ireland and spread to the United States with the Irish immigration of the 1840’s. When Cardinal Manning was archbishop of Westminster (1865-1892) he worked hard to establish this custom as the universal practice in England as well. It is still largely restricted to English speaking countries (although in France, Catholics use “Pere” in addressing a priest".

PAT SAYS:

I am a bit shocked that a young priest in this day and age is saying: "YOU HAVE TO CALL ME FATHER. I AM A PROFESSIONAL LIKE A DOCTOR".

Did not Jesus, at the Washing of the Feet on Holy Thursday night tell priests that they were SERVANTS?

When I meet everybody I introduce myself as Pat Buckley.

If they ask me what they should call me I tell them that I am happy for them to call me what my mother called me - Pat.

I do not see myself as a "professional".

I see myself as a priest servant to anybody who needs me.

Many people will go on to call me Father Pat or Bishop Pat and that is fine.

Intelligent people do not introduce themselves with a prefix attached.

Nor would I dream of going into a prison to say Mass in a formal three-piece suit.

What kind of message does that give to prisoners?


Indeed one of the problems that the priesthood has is that it has become, like the Pharisees of old, A "professional" class or clique.

That is the clericalism that Pope Francis condemns.




162 comments:

  1. Sounds like Fr McKeever could take lessons in humility. He comes across as quite arrogant.

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    Replies
    1. 00.42: Sounds like you need to have lessons in hiw to Mind Your Own Business and lessons in discerning TRUTH from FALSEHOODS as maliciously presented by Pat. This James guy is a problem and he should not be abused or used by you or Pat to pursue anti clerical sentiment or to infer all kinds of negative judgments on this priest, who probably has had this guy harrass him many times. That's not commendable behaviour.

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    2. Christians project their own arrogance and fake humility and judgementalism on Jesus. I mean they say they agree with his boastful claims and his threats to judge the world and tell people to go to eternal fire. They judge and boast by proxy. Jesus is the proxy.

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  2. MournemanMichael31 March 2018 at 00:45

    "Intelligent people do not introduce themselves with a prefix attached "
    I much Agree!
    Far too many pretentious small minded individuals, invariably with delusions of grandeur, insist on proclaiming their superiority by the number of "letters " after their name.
    I often wonder if it's related to that aspect of the stratified English class system where judgement of worth relate to perception of wealth/education etc.
    MMM

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    Replies
    1. So says Mournful Mike who has MMM as a title lol.

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    2. MMM is Latin for 3,000, the usual number given for LEGION.

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    3. MMM at 00.45: Again, you are inferring unfair motivations to others, in this instance, Fr. McKeever. I'm quute certain that he's not a pretentious, small minded man with delusions of grandeur. You and I do nit know the full story, only what's presented here. I think the priest has every rught to defendv himself against this insistent, bullying harrassment. You wouldn't tolerate. I wouldn't tolerate it. It's an intrusion into a space of privacy and a crossing of boundaries by videoing and attempting to compromise, defame and offend this priest. I find your comments very strange and self serving indeed. Trying to slap down clerics again on the evidence of one man's videos and disgruntlement.

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    4. 3000 aren’t u the same poster who was extollng his GB higher education which thankfully enabled him to see the mediocrity of his Irish schooling? You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. (Am sure you’ll be familiar with the provenance of this image and understand the inference.)

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  3. If he told me to call him Father, I think I'd have another name for him which he wouldn't be too pleased with. #Clericalism chokes the holy spirit

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  4. It seems a bit petty for the insistence of using a title.

    As a mark of respect to the many good priests I know I still use the term “Father” until otherwise directed. I don’t think it can be demanded as a matter of course though.

    I don’t know the Young Man involved but I sense that his stand is coming from a place of anger and of hurt. Would nobody have a chat with him?

    By all means he should continue his protest at attempting to Officially leave the Church. I just worry that he is not doing it from a place of strength and clarity.

    The thing is we need to separate the Church from God. People have been hurt and disappointed by the Church and sometimes throw God away with their connection to the Church.

    I just hope that the failings of the Church don’t stint this man in his own journey.

    When the Church fail and do aweful things they get our hurt and disappointment.

    If we lump God in with the actions of the Church they get our Soul too.

    I just hope this doesn’t happen

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  5. This is very funny.
    I think it's a practice which should be extended.
    'You have to call me dinner lady, I'm a professional.'
    '...bricklayer'
    '...nuclear physicist'
    And so on.
    And in Magna Carta's case we could call him 'misanthropist'!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well it was you to whom 6:21 was referring, Ms'pist Carta!
      Rofl

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  6. Prison? I don't think that's right. I believe what he said was that he was running late to go to Armagh to attend 'the Chrism Mass'?

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  7. Hi +Pat,

    This is crazy. My GP introduces themselves as their first name.

    Father waistcoat my arse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ah. yes,... but if you were well versed in etiquette and good manners you (@ 9.05)would have been taught that even though your GP introduces himself as for example "John Clark" - - using Christian name as you say, - - YOU in return when replying, show your courtesy and good manners by saying something like "How do you do, Doctor Clark?" or "I am pleased to meet you, Doctor Clark"
      The same principle could be applied to the case on the blog...
      I say this in good faith and I'm not trying to get one over on any other poster.. Not at all..

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  8. Pat, With all due respect I think you are not doing yourself any favours posting this gentleman’s videos.
    I’ll leave it at that.

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  9. "Don't let anyone call you father. You have one father and he is in heaven"

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  10. I don’t think that Pat is interested in doing himself favours 9.22, he certainly showed up the servants of the Lord in a new light this past few days.
    I’m shocked at our priests behaviour.
    Did James get his 4 o’clock appointment??
    The lady at st malachys was more sympathetic and almost diffused the situation...apart from the scissors L O L
    Why are these men not educated in the art of listening? It could have been all sorted had they known and studied human interactions.
    From now on I will be wary of the lot of you.

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  11. John Mc Keever ....you are not a professional.
    You are supposed to be a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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    Replies
    1. Are you, with your disobliging remarks? Did Francis not say "who am I to judge" or does that only refer to gay people?

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    2. Fr Mc Keever is a servant of God's people - yes - - but he should have also have the best qualities of a professional approach to the boundaries and dignity of his work. If that breaks down, the results won't be edifying for the parishioner or himself. Surely people have learned that by now if nothing else!

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    3. Retired social worker31 March 2018 at 11:10

      Indeed, priests taking boys on holiday, watching porn with them in the presbytery, Ledwith taking Jaime for trips in his private plane.

      For myself I think it courteous to address people by their professional customary titles e.g. Dr, Proff, Constable, Guard, Major, Fr etc.

      I'm now a Presbyterian and we address our ministers as the Revd whatever. I've left the Catholic church chiefly because of Pope Francis but I wouldn't dream of door-stepping my former PP.

      Similarly I know plenty of ex-Anglicans who join the Catholic church and they don't go badgering their former vicars about how to "defect".

      This man needs help from medical and social work professionals.

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    4. 10:44 Being called father doesnt guarantee a professional approach. It could be construed as moving a professional relationship in a paternalistic direction.

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    5. Well keep away from priests if it offends your feminist sensibilities. The Anglicans might be better for you!

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    6. 11:10, yes, James does need help, but not from 'medical and social work professionals': he requested it from those priests...and they snubbed him.

      It is they who need help...in the fundamentals of good manners. (Oh! And in why priests shouldn't lie, especially when they're being filmed.)

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    7. 12.23: Magna, stop attributing sinister, malicious motivations to the priests who are being harrassed and annoyed by James. He does need professional help. There are serious issues of boundaries here and engaging with awkward individuals has to be done cautiously. Most priests exercise good manners and kindness but in some experiences have to be very careful. Any sensible person would behave likewise. But for you to deliberately distort facts to repeat your anti priest hateful rant is malicious and offensive. You, Magna, are the liar and an ugly one.

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    8. 'Harassed'? 'Annoyed'? 'Engaging with awkward individuals'? Your post sounds a check-list of objections for everyone ever caught inflagrante delicto but in deep denial of it, a several clichΓ©-in-making.

      As for 'serious issues of boundaries', investigative journalists behave in this way all the time. I'm thinking of Darragh MacIntyre's cornering the 'Wounded Healer' in church grounds a few years ago. Did MacIntyre need 'professional help' for this? From the Wounded Healer's point of view, there was harassment and annoyance, and MacIntyre, as an individual, was certainly being 'awkard'.

      Whenever anyone in authority oversteps a professional or moral mark, and is vain enough and stupid enough to make a defence for himself, he almost invariably cries 'foul play', and trys to label his nemesis bad or mad. (Or usually both.)

      I note you said nothing about the priest who drove off in that 'flash' blue car (an Audi, I think), after having rationed truth about himself. Why? Why don't these things bother professional priest-grovellers like you? Should a Roman Catholic priest be driving such an expensive and prestigious car? What useful example does it set? What does it say about his relationship to the poor Nazarene? Is he following him closely, living in imitation of his lifestyle? Or is he more like the rich young man who liked the emotional appeal of Jesus' words, but not their practice? What do you think?

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    9. Magna at 14.27, since you don't interact with people of all kinds, including some very vulnerable people who call at presbyteries, you haven't a clue about the necessity of boundaries which are necessary. It's all too easy for responses of priests to be twisted and to have negatives motivations attributed to their actions. People with any disability have to be treated with respect and care, not used or abused to further any anti catholic/cleric agenda. The intrusion into anyone's life by unstable people is totally unacceptable. And, really, Magna, as you have such an obsessive, pathological capacity for hatred of priests, your opinions are irrelevant. The moment your were ditched from seminary has left a deep wound in you. Get over your hurt and act maturely. As for cars, couldn't care what car a priest drives. I prefer the bicycle and at times, on special moments, the ass and cart. Feel free to join me....

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    10. 18:23, I agree with you (this will pump up your ego) that people with disabilities 'have to be treated with respect'. And yet, not one of those arrogant, Romanist Christ betrayers (priests) treated James with even a modicum of respect. Where is your complaint about this? Oh! You're one of this self-excusing, merry band of Judases, aren't you! The penny drops.

      And you couldn't care what car a priest drives? Why aren't I surprised? But the stupid, stipend-paying, Roman Catholic laity should be angry that these Christ betrayers are laughing behind your backs, as they spend YOUR hard-earned cash. For these guys give new meaning to 'financial parasite' and 'sponger'.

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    11. Magna, 21.22: By now, how many glasses of booze have you consumed? The more you comnent, the more obnoxious you are. A truly pitiable and crazy, bizarre specimen. You are simply - mad.

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    12. He's mad for the drink.

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    13. Magna, 21.22: All you saw was an edited version of James's videos, perfectly suited to elicit hatred, untrue assertions, nasty judgments, bigotry - you being the supreme personification of all that is offensive to other people's dignity. I'm quite certain if someone annoyed you with secret videoing, you wouldn't tolerate it. Why are you so jealous of priests? Why are you consumed with so much vitriol? There must be a torrent of unresolved rage in you, some unresolved childhood trauma to cause you to behave so unkindly and inhumanely. The badness in you seems boundless. The parishioners I care for are very grateful for my commitment and dedication. They are very generous, do not begrudge me any comfort, are loyal to their community, very supportive of all activities. Why would this truth upset you? I am no Christ betrayer, no parasite, no Judas but I have little difficulty in recognising freaks and bad people like you who are an endangerment by word and deed! I have pity for you because jealousy, anger, hatred - all eat away at your potential goodness. I'll pray for you and my invite to you to join me in the ass and cart still stands. Just give me your number.

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  12. Indeed I did mistakingly hear "prison" instead of "chrism".

    But why is a young priest going around rural Armagh dressed in a three piece suit with cloth covered buttons?

    It makes him look like a banker!

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    Replies
    1. Because he's a professional not a mere amateur like you lol.
      Now if you were to go around in a watered silk soutane and soup plate hat, obviously everyone would respect and never contradict you!

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    2. Because that is his personal choice . You are allowed your personal choice too.

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    3. A person who is careless about his dress is often careless about other matters also. It shouldn't necessarily be that way, but in my experience of many employees, it often IS.
      I think it is because it is a symptom of a "couldn't care less" attitude of mind.

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    4. No, 10:40, you are not allowed a persobal choice. That is the whole point of following the Nazarene: you give up the freedom to choose and instead do his choosing.

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  13. Pat I read in your beautifully written memoirs about your admiration for your PP when you were growing up who was noted for his clerical tailoring?

    What's changed? Personally I cannot stand waistcoats but I'm enough of a liberal to allow people to dress as they please.

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  14. Makes you wonder about his choice of underwear.

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    Replies
    1. NOYB @ 10.20

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    2. 10.37 or indeed his choice of mass wear, especially if it includes lots of lace, frillly fripperies and silk.

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    3. He probably buys his underwear and socks in the same place his expensive suit comes from - Rome!

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  15. Cuff links too. He’s a believer in the old lies: Clothes maketh the man. and Fine feathers fine birds.

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    Replies
    1. You shouldn't judge people solely on their appearance.

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    2. 13:36, we shouldn't do many things, perhaps, but we do them anyway. One of them is that we do tend to judge, even subconsciously, by appearance.

      Priests need to be mindful of how they are perceived. First impressions are made, and they DO count. Priests who ignore this are fools.

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    3. Do you ever listen to your own advice?

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    4. So you think it worth listening to?πŸ˜†

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    5. You obviously don't

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  16. The procedure for acquiring a document certifying that you have formally defected from the Catholic Church has been given in a previous blog. It couldn't be more straightforward. A sensible person would make an appointment and provide the necessary documentation.

    In the end, of course, if your relatives insist, a full Catholic funeral will be provided.

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  17. McKeever looked like an idiot and sounded pathetic in his arguments. Someone should take him aside and have a word with him that this is not 1960’s Ireland. Too many young Priests in Armagh running around in cloth and lace and God knows what else that is frilly.

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    Replies
    1. You should come to the Diocese of Lancaster. Frills, lace and frocks all the way. A newly ordained Priest in Blackpool and in our Cathedral both wear a cassock, cufflinks and biretta as part of every day wear and insist of being called Father followed by surname. The Latin Mass is their preferred option and they have the personality of a wet lettuce. The Bishop’s Secretary is also well known for dressing up. Not sure where this is all going.

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    2. Oh yes. That’s Father BD (Hons.) STL who is heading off to Rome for higher studies. At least it will be easier for the new bishop to replace him.

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    3. Apparently he is moving to Blackpool until the summer then heading to Canada to study Canon law. All funded by you and me of course. So do we need more Canon Lawyers? No! He needs to be put in a Parish (minus the lace) and be a proper Priest for a while.

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    4. Ottawa seems to be the place they all go to study Canon Law, even though the Church in Canada has collapsed and it's seminary is a busted flush. I suppose it keeps Sem course Fr Billings away from a parish for a few more years.

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    5. Indeed. I’ve always wondered why each diocese needs to have its own battery of canon lawyers. Why can’t they pool resources and have say 3 based at Armagh then all Irish diocese can draw on their expertise. Perhaps that’s too simple and too inexpensive. Silly me.

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  18. Father and suits and boots. No point hiding in the leaves when the roots are defective

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    1. John McKeevers suit looked a classic product of Gammarelli in Rome with the cloth buttons - very expensive. I’m sure that went on the parish expense account, the people of Keady obviously like to see their money being totally wasted. Why not buy a cheaper black suit from a local menswear shop thus supporting local business. These younger Clerics now seem to have big ideas about themselves.

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  19. Have the Free P's got a meeting house in Armagh? You'd be happier there, I think.

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  20. It's shameful to be drawing such misguided judgments about the priests posted on these videos - not with their permission. The footage is being used very nastily to portray these priests in a bad way, deliberately. During this Holy Week I've had a couple if callers to my home looking for money etc...one or two became very aggressive and I had reason to ask them to leave. Because of biundaries issues, priests have to be very careful. That's something we must honour but also be kind to genuine callers. Also this past week I've had couples looking for wedding papers, a month out from their weddings. In the busyness of Holy Week Ceremonies with all the required preparations, priests can feel under great pressure. To have a caller, sermingly distressed, harrass you while also videoing, must be very disconcerting. I think it's very unfair, on the evidence shown - one sided - to draw negative judgments about these priests. Someone should advise James caringly. But to make wild, unfair and unjust criticisms of priests in these situations is an injustice and motivated by malice.

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    Replies
    1. Would Jesus have minded a couple calling to Him for marriage papers in Holy Week?

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    2. 12.10: Pat, I'm sure Jesus would have delegated such a task to his disciples. You deliberately miss my point and since you do not work in a real parish of 3000 homes, which is very challenging being the only priest, you have no concept Pat of such demands. My point is that sometimes priests can be asked to do things at moments of greatest pressure, unknown to many callers and parishioners, and can find such moments very disconcerting and because of other arranged commitments can't always respond on the spot. Busy priests are aware of what I'm saying and I think you understand too but, as usual, you are flippant, judgmental and cynical, always suggesting that you're the onky one who equals Jesus. Your blig all this week had nothing to do with KEEPING SACRED THE MEMORY OF JESUS - more a scourging by you of all things Catholic and your offensive usage of video footage to display your arrogant disdain for priests. And you want us to believe you are the true Alter Christus. Hmm.....

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    3. would Jesus have created a blog and outed young gay men?

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    4. Hypocritical young gay men...

      Posing as chastitutes?

      YES!

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    5. so Jesus would have ignored his own teachings?

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  21. It is inappropriate and undesirable to address a priest as Father let alone that he should insist on this. We do so out of old habit but it is troubling that a good number of young clergy demand it and dress the part. What can they be thinking and who sanctioned them in this fetish? Their bishop? The history of the nomenclature is revealing. Not only was it never used in England until the restoration of the hierarchy, it was disdained long after by „English“ Catholics as being foreign or „rather Irish“. So Dom was preferred at Downside, „profs““ were addressed as Mr at Ushaw, priests at Cotton were addressed as „sir not Father“, and so on. Also from the mid 19th C Anglo-Catholics demonstrated their club by using „Father“ and adopting absurd forms of dress such as birettas ( which even Abp Lefebvre discouraged on the grounds of their being vainglorious. ) Why is it now that female Anglican clergy are so keen on collars and cassocks, and even adopt the bonkers title „Mother“? None of this would matter were it not for the perception that these gewgaws are what constitutes the clerical life rather than service.

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    Replies
    1. @ 11.43
      Your post reminds me of an important thing I learned at university :-
      Always be aware when someone says or writes something in which he elevates a mere personal opinion to the status of a FACT .
      Need I say more !

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    2. Personally in my Anglo-Catholic days I addressed all clergy as Father lol.
      The Benedictine Dom thing has a function within the community of everyone having the same title and eliminating the difference between the priests and non-priests (yes, I realise they could use brother if they tried).
      I don't think you'll hear Dom used at Glenstal though - their congregation was formerly the Belgian congregation and in Flemish Dom means stupid!

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  22. Perhaps people in Keady and elsewhere should start calling McKeever Mother instead of Father.

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  23. I think The Reverend Father John McKeever May well be an alumnus of academy of clergy sartorial elegance. I understand that Bishop Tony Farquhar is the patron.

    Montague Burton

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    Replies
    1. Hasn’t A. Farquhar the reputation of being a decent down to earth! No lace or frillies for him.

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  24. Watched the Fr video. Being called Fr is something I never had a hang up about one way or the other. There is a sense in which the relationship between priest and people is professional but this is acted out differently depending on context. The person priest doctor or whoever is still the same person. Perhaps Mr MC Connell should insist on being called Mr to fix the Ballance and make a point.

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    1. 12.14 Thanks. Point taken

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    2. sean did you just thank your own comment?

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    3. There’s an L of a difference between them.

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    4. Meant to say thanks to 13.16

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  25. Catholics usually address priests as ‘Father,’ but it’s only a courtesy title. He is just plain Mister to everybody else.

    This pompous twit sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

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    Replies
    1. I disagree that a priest is "plain Mister to everyone else"
      Non-Catholic people in particular in this area always use either the title "Father" or often "Reverend" as their way of showing respect . I notice they always address their own minister as "Reverend" as well.

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    2. 13.28 I come from a Presbyterian and Unitarian background and would never dream of addressing a minister as "Reverend". The usual etiquette is to address a minister who you do not know well as "Mr" and those that you do by their Christian name. The title Reverend would be restricted to formal announcements.

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  26. I wonder what he does about his passport. If issues in Γ‰ire then he’s John not Rev. or Fr.

    Pretentious man of straw.

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    Replies
    1. His Christian names go on his passport and his "Title" is "Reverend"
      No problem at all. You see we're reasonable people..

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    2. Passport Contol won’t call him Father.

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    3. They call all gentlemen "sir" at passport checks

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  27. If you'll be my bodyguard
    I can be your long lost pal, du du du du du du du du,
    I can call you Betty
    And Betty when you call me
    You can call me Al

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    Replies
    1. Morphine Bill and Cocaine Sue,
      Walking down Royal Avenue,
      Says Morphine Bill to Cocaine Sue,
      Honey, have a sniff on me.

      Honey have a sniff
      Honey have a sniff
      Honey have a sniff on me

      :-)

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    2. I wonder what Pat is "on" today writing stuff like that?

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    3. 400 mg of a sense of humour :-)

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  28. I wrote to Brady in 1999 seeking an appointment as advised by Canon Lawyer, received reply from his Secretary that an appointment would be arranged after Brady returned from Vatican and received Red Cardinal hat. 19 years later I'm still waiting for this appointment. 

    Four years ago I wrote to Amy offering pastoral work services in Armagh Diocese. Never received any reply.

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    1. Had you offered them a large donation you would have been invited to dinner with Brady or Amy.

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    2. A very wise decision by Sean Brady. Is everybody in Armagh diocese one sandwich short of a picnic?

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    3. Well, having worked in pastoral work for 12 years and self funded pastoral theology degree, CPE, Spiritual Director etc. The only donation I have to offer is my pastoral care services.

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    4. In 1999 you say? But His Grace only became His Eminence in November 2007.

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    5. Thanks for clarification. Maybe it was Ad Limina trip.

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  29. This year we may see a New His Eminence (Cardinal) after all Archbishop Eamon Martin may get the Call a step up from His Lordship.

    Sadly this guy needs Physiological help and really the Clergy are not that advanced on Mental Health.

    Nolan gets the name of picking on the Vulnerable but I am shocked at pat going down this road as it is event the guy needs help.

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    1. Nolan gets the name of someone who fights the case for the vulnerable. He deserves the appreciation that he now gets.

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  30. Eamon will not become Cardinal while Brady is still a Cardinal and continuing to look over Eamon’s shoulder. Keep the videos coming Pat, it’s time we saw these Priests for what they are.

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  31. I am a hospital chaplain and I always introduce myself to patients and family by my first name. It puts them at ease. I wear the collar so they know what I am, but never anything sartorial. I just have an ordinary jumper or fleece over the collar.

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    Replies
    1. Dress smartly and have a little more respect for the patients who are worth a little bit more effort

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  32. paddy paddy paddy paddy!
    wo oh oh oh oh oh
    do ya? do ya? do ya? do ya?
    wo oh oh oh oh oh, oh, oh,!

    I cant...

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  33. John Mc Keever is typical of those ordained in the last 15 years. They belong to a bygone era.......an era, ironically that none of them can remember! Young priests in Irish dioceses think those of us ordained in the 70's, 80's and 90's are too left wing and don't know our arse from our elbow. They look down on anyone who doesn't subscribe to their theology and they treat other priests, as well as parishioners, with contempt. In fact they can barely conceal their intolerance towards anyone who doesn't wear a cassock, cuff links and a biretta. I'd be fairly sure that many of them wear lace knickers as well as lace surplices.

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    1. Totally agree that with 16.24. I was at a Chrism Mass in a Northern Diocese and walked in with an ordinary old jacket on and grey coloured clerical shirt. I could sense some of the younger Priests wearing their tailored suits, fine fitted Albs and huge collars looking down their nose at me. They are unfriendly and dour and have attitude. I really don’t know what’s got into our younger Clergy. They expect a fellow Priest to refer to them as ‘Father’. I don’t think that is a healthy mindset.

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    2. Your era's over. The young priests are clearing up the mess they inherited. You and your kind drove the Church into the ground, emptied churches and seminaries and many of you abused children.

      Try not to dress like Fr Jack from the Fr Ted show.

      Delete
    3. In most cases they need to be sent to America to be defagged before they cause scandal.

      Delete
    4. At least the senior clergy were not caught on gay apps like Grindr and frolicking around with young lads at WYD. You are clearing up no mess just creating more mess in your frilly frocks and demanding people call you Father. How pathetic is that. I’ll try not to dress as Dame Edna like you do.

      Delete
    5. What's got into them, 17:34? Well, it isn't Christ.πŸ˜†

      Delete
    6. 19:54 Is that the best you can do to construct an argument? Finishing off with a reference to the abuse of children would have been more effective if you hadn’t omitted mass murder.

      Delete
  34. Pat did you correspond with James before he went to the priests and Bishop?

    ReplyDelete
  35. I did not "correspond".

    I advised him be telephone that he needed to pursue his desire for formal defection with his PP, his bishop and diocesan authorities.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +Pat you advised James to be a telephone? lol

      Delete
    2. Maybe he'll soon find himself engaged !

      Delete
    3. If James phones me I'll definitely say "sorry, wrong number"!

      Delete
  36. A couple of days ago a poster made a comment regarding communion wafers. others contributed saying they liked the taste of these wafers also. others however made several complaints maintaining it was it was disrespectful. I came across this video earlier about the popes farm in Rome.

    "There are chickens too who feed on the remnants of communion wafers made by cloistered nuns who live on the property" 1:34

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEi4IlbN4MI

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Argument settled, I think.πŸ˜†

      Delete
    2. I have been vindicated. Now to open a bottle of cono sur

      Delete
    3. Emm, not robust enough for me, I fear.

      How about a double measure of good Irish elixir?πŸ˜†

      Delete
  37. well I'll be damned, the chickens like the taste of communion wafers as well :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We should ignore you... @ poster 18.30

      Delete
  38. how strange. it is common practice to sprinkle holy water into the mixture when making communion bread. the chickens are eating blessed bread. they too are creatures of God.

    ReplyDelete
  39. this is a blog in its own right

    ReplyDelete
  40. I suppose it makes sense to discard of the leftovers from making the bread but this bread is blessed from the get go with the intention to be turned into the body of Christ.

    ReplyDelete
  41. I gave up the fags for lent. 40 days

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well done @ poster 18.47!!
      Maybe you could stay off the fags altogether for your health.

      Delete
    2. Bet it's felt like 40 years.

      Delete
    3. Plenty of fags in Maynooth.

      Delete
  42. Pat, I'm in an awful state. I was making battered fish, chips and beans and didn't Timmy open the can of spaghetti instead of the beans

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cheer up, dearie @ 18.50 . Beans on toast then tomorrow night and a quiter night tonight....

      Delete
    2. But there's never a quiet night after beans...!

      Delete
  43. The YouTube video I am really looking forward to posting is the one I - and some other of the troll Magna Carta’s old mates from Maynooth - will make, when we finally get around to ‘bearding him in his own den’ some fine day, after all these years.

    Yes, that will be so funny. The look on his face, when he opens the door of his little troll house under the bridge, will be priceless!

    But I’m sure his eyes will light up when he sees the litre bottle of Finlandia vodka we will bring him - as well as ourselves. Oh and some of that chocolate made by the monks to which he is so partial.

    We’ll have such a jolly time reminiscing about the japes and scrapes of the good old days in New House and up the Graf and the swimming pool and all.

    Sure it’ll be some craic. I have no doubt it will go viral on YouTube and we’ll get a few bob out of it. As they say, we’ll keep y’all posted!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Listen! If yer gonna call, for heaven's sake don't bring me vodka! I hate the stuff!! And don't bring me Scotch, however glorifiedly single a malt it might be.

      Bring me a good Irish. (I'm partial to Jameson, or Tullamore Dew.)

      Alternatively, a good brandy. (A very good one, mind.😬 None of that Asda or Tesco muck.πŸ˜†)

      Delete
  44. I think James is doing a wonderful job in highlighting the mediocrity of the clergy who work in Armagh. I look forward to James continuing with his crusade against the corruption he sees around him. I do think though that he needs to tell us what happened on prior occasions when he wanted to speak with clergy. There are unanswered questions surrounding his previous dealings with these priests who evidently knew him and were unwilling to enter into dialogue with him. But all in all James.....great job!! I am glad Bishop Pat is able to offer support and a wonderful presence on the world wide web for you. Keep it up.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Pat was saying that he wouldn't visit a prison in a suit as "What sort of a message would that give?"
    Of course I understand the point he is making .
    But it very much depends on how you look at it... For example if I, myself was a prisoner (or a warder) who saw you arrive in your suit, I would immediately have a heightened sense of respect for you as I would think... Bishop Pat has gone to the same trouble for us today as if he was going to meet someone very special or an important social occasion. He has as much respect for me in this cell as he has for them... He took the trouble because he thinks we are worth it.. I admire that.. He doesn't think we're second-class citizens.


    Presenting yourself well shows respect for the occasion and the people you will be dealing with.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Happy Easter girls! How are ye all this evening?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Happy Easter Maureen! Ah just the usual. Going to savage a few Cadbury’s Creme Eggs after mass. Yourself x

      Delete
  47. Hi +Pat,

    Why don’t you install a web cam in the Oratory and broadcast on Sunday?

    I see lots of churches have installed cameras and broadcast the mass live.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was thinking that as well. It would have been nice to see the Easter vigil from the oratory. a very intimate setting.

      Delete
  48. Hey! Thanks for asking . Chillin' out at home. Watching The Voice.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Hahahah you approve the comments first. All has to dance to your tune!!!! Pretty sure this is what your slagging the Catholic Church about. Yet your doing it in your own twisted way. Produce what you want people to know. Hide the fact he verbally attacked a lay person in Armagh chapel. Clearly the young man has mental health issues. Disabled maybe. But if he can’t remember what he says surely he shouldn’t be allowed to drive. How does he remember the rules of the road?? Bunch of losers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Yet you're doing it..." (@ 22.02

      Delete
    2. Tell us who you are first

      Delete
  50. +Pat, how long do you plan to prolong this so-called "defection" rigmarole? You've milked it for all its worth... I am bored stiff with it.

    I hope you have a sparkling new scandal for us soon.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Shame on you @ 22.38

    ReplyDelete
  52. Would those in the know please share with us what years Magna Carta was in Maynooth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not sure of the exact years but it was the 80s before my time.

      Delete
    2. I'm pretty sure it was the mid-nineties, but a cud be wrong.πŸ˜†

      Delete
    3. No one really knows who Carta really is - not even his old Maw.

      They’re a very secretive bunch the Cartas. Old Maw Carta always impressed upon her brood - “whatever you say, say nathin!”

      The old Carta place - Carta House up on Loon Hill - spooky old joint. “Strange goings on” (to coin a phrase of Diarmuid Martin) wouldn’t be in it!

      Strange lights visible, moving around the darkened rooms at all hours, and unearthly shrieking.

      One brave soul ventured up there one night. He had enough of the bawling and roaring.

      Banged on the Big Door he did. It eventually creaked open and this old geezer in a monkey suit peered out:

      “Ere mate, keep the racket down would ya?” said the fed up guy.

      “Awfully sorry sir”, said the ancient butler, “but we’re holding the Carta ball”.

      Says our guy, “well would you please let it go. My childer are trying to sleep!”

      (FYI - Mags has only got one ball, just like his uncle Adolf).

      Old Maw Carta - now she’s some bird. Sort of a cross between Dot Cotton and Mamamama Ma Baker (you know her? “She taught her own sons how to handle a gun”? Boney M? Yep. Her)

      Maw Carta is sort of a Queen Bee figure in the old Carta place - at the centre of the hive so to speak.

      The only one who can control Maggie Carta is his old Maw. Her word is law. If he crosses her, he’s locked under the stairs at her pleasure with no vodka and no chocolate! No internet and no porn.

      So if yizzer havin bother tell him yiz’ll tell his Maw! Buona Pasqua!

      Delete
    4. Clogher curate1 April 2018 at 17:59

      Magna Carta was in Maynooth from 1993 to 1998, when he was given the Order of the Boot. He's still furious about it twenty years later.

      I won't identify him or his diocese.

      The first year class in 1993 was unprecedentently small (either 43 or 53 - I can't remember) and caused great shock and alarm in the college though in later years that number would seem riches indeed. Even in MC's day there were over 250 resident seminarians.

      Delete
    5. 15:54 make me have an accident with the gin I was drinking lol.
      We all knew MC was a fake but now we know he's the young pretender.

      Delete
  53. A person going to school would not call their teacher John or Mary, instead it's Sir, Mister, Mam, Miss or Mrs it is where I live Anyway and should be the same with priests it should be Father or Bishop unless you are personal friends or family of the said priest/brother or in the case of a female nun when it is ok to call them by the name their parents gave them or if they are o.k. with it call the father John or Pat etc.

    ReplyDelete
  54. 00:11 You are not comparing like with like - adults and children on the one hand (though in some schools, teachers are addressed by first name) and adults and adults on the other.

    ReplyDelete
  55. JMcK is behaving every bit as obtusely as the bishop who flew into a rage for not being referred to as archbishop.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Was mc a unionist?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More SDLP in those days.


      But always a controversialist and a contrarian. Whatever you said he'd take the opposite view. It became very tiresome.

      On the old seminary campus he'd be a total Tablet liberal but when he crossed the bridge to the lay campus for lectures there he sounded to the right of the SSPX. Anything to get a reaction, I suppose.

      Delete
    2. 19.39 Your last comment is perceptive and incisive.

      The extreme to which his postings go to elicit a reaction shows how uninteresting and dull as ditchwater the rest of his views are.

      When the arresting element is removed he has nothing to say - but an obligation to say it.

      Delete