Monday, 16 April 2018

IRISH BISHOPS AND ABORTION AMENDMENT

Repealing Eighth ‘could lead to euthanasia and eugenics’
Bishop says there are effects if society decides ‘human life is disposable’
Barry Roche The Irish Times 






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Repealing the Eighth Amendment to allow for abortion in Ireland could pave the way for the introduction of euthanasia and eugenics, two Catholic bishops have warned.
Bishop of Cork and Ross Dr John Buckley said the debate about repeal had failed to make any mention of “the rightness” or “wrongness”of human behaviour despite all authorities on moral matters agreeing the deliberate taking of innocent human life was always wrong.
“We can be sure that if a society decides that human life is disposable at its beginning, it will not be too long before it decides the same for human life at its end...human life is sacred and precious...this is true in every moment of life from its first beginning to its natural end.”
In a pastoral letter on the right to life read out at all Masses in all 68 parishes in the diocese on Sunday, Dr Buckley said there was a danger people may confuse abortion with necessary medical intervention, which, he said, has never been denied to any Irish woman as a result of the Eighth Amendment.
“In 1983 the Irish people voted into the Constitution an amendment that would give the unborn child the same legal right as the mother. Under its provisions no life-saving treatment is ever, or legally can ever, be denied to an expectant mother.
·         Abortion: The Facts
 “The Catholic Church has never taught that the life of the child in the womb should be preferred to that of the mother. A doctor may give any treatment that is necessary to either mother or child without deliberately intending harm to the other.”
Abortion, on the other hand, was a “deliberate medical intervention to end the life of an unborn child”, said Dr Buckley. He pointed out that the Supreme Court had ruled that the unborn baby enjoys only one constitutional right, namely the right to life, thanks to the Eighth Amendment.

Eugenics
Meanwhile, the Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin Dr Denis Nulty warned that repealing the Eighth Amendment would create an “abortion culture” in Ireland which could lead to the advent of eugenics, with serious implications for those with disabilities.
In a pastoral message read out in all 56 parishes in the diocese which covers all of Carlow and parts of Laois, Offaly, Kilkenny, Kildare and Wicklow, Dr Nulty said he could not agree with those who hold the view that a pregnant woman has “an absolute right to choose the fate of her pregnancy”.
He said he believed that life begins at conception, and it did not serve the truth to minimise the reality of abortion and how prevalent it can become. The “hard truth” was evident in statistics on abortion from the UK and elsewhere, he said.
“Once we deny the right to life of the unborn we can no longer defend ourselves from what flows from an abortion culture. For instance, we are in deep denial if we cannot recognise that an abortion culture fundamentally alters our attitude towards disability.
“I believe that a culture that permits abortion cannot be separated from a culture that seeks full control over the gift of life. In recent years I have the sense that we are walking with our eyes closed into an era of eugenics, unwilling to look where we are going but still continuing on.”

Expectant mother
Meanwhile, the Bishop of Raphoe, Dr Alan McGuckian, has said in a message to Mass-goers in 33 parishes in his diocese that abortion was never justified, and an expectant mother, particularly if her pregnancy posed a serious crisis for her and her family, deserved the support of everyone around her.

“A mother may be informed her baby faces serious challenges or is perhaps terminally ill. She might be pregnant as a result of rape. In such cases recommending abortion might seem like a gesture of compassion. Even in those tragic cases the unborn child needs to be loved and cherished.”




PAT:

I believe that because of the widespread abuse of children by Roman Catholic bishops and priests - and the widespread cover-up of that abuse by Roman Catholic bishops and priests - that these people have absolutely no moral credibility when they pontificate about sexual and reproductive matters!

If they had an ounce of decency in them they would remain silent about a matter where they have found to be the most guilty of all.

I am opposed to loose abortion laws but I am also aware that many people find themselves in very tight corners - people like victims of rape and people like mothers pregnant with a non-viable baby.

The Irish people are ethical and moral enough to make their own decision on this matter without the help of the organization that has been a historic abuser of women and children.
The picture below says more about their hypocrisy than I can say in words:



97 comments:

  1. ME:

    I believe that because of the widespread abuse of children by SOME Roman Catholic bishops and priests - and the widespread cover-up of that abuse by SOME Roman Catholic bishops and priests - that SOME OF these people who are personally responsible for crimes have absolutely no moral credibility when they pontificate about sexual and reproductive matters!

    If those personally responsible had an ounce of decency in them they themselves SHOULD remain silent about a matter where they have found to be the most guilty of all.

    I am opposed to loose abortion laws but I am also aware that many people find themselves in very tight corners - people like victims of rape and people like mothers pregnant with a non-viable baby.

    The Irish people are ethical and moral enough to make their own decision on this matter without the help of ANY organization that may or may-not have been a historic abuser of women and children.

    Sincerely, Pro=Choice Advocate

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    1. I am neither a pro-choice advocate, nor pro-abortion (some might say that a cigarette foil couldn't be slipped between the two positions, since they are much of a muchness), but I am decidedly anti-abortion, however personally tragic the circumstances of a pregnancy. My faith, practically speaking, is very simple: God will provide. And he always, and unfailingly (sometimes surprisingly), comes through on his promise to take care of EVERY one, especially those who express trust (however weakly) in his parental care.

      But my anger in this debate is not reserved for pro-abortionists (at least I know where I stand with them), but with the foul hypocrisy of Roman Catholic clergy, especially the episcopacy. On the one hand, they protest abortion on the ground (and I accept this) that human life is 'sacred and precious', to quote the Bishop of Cork and Ross, Dr John Buckley. But on the other hand, these same men ignore the highly inconvenient truth that the Roman Catholic Church has, nearly always, NOT shown, by its treatment of human beings, that it regards personal life in this way, except as an academic abstraction.

      The predecessors of these men made women pregnant outside marriage feel utterly ashamed and alienated, both from society and from the love of God. (It must have been hard to feel otherwise shut away inside a Magdalene laundry.) These men showed utter contempt for women they considered no better than human trash.

      I hope the Irish people will learn to respect every human life, especially unborn and vulnerable life. Its right to exist should not be a matter of academic or moral persuasion by an institutional Church that has disgraced itself in the dock of human endeavour and compassion, but a matter of existence itself: if it exists, then that existence was intended, and morally predicates itself.

      I disagree with you, 00:04, that only 'SOME' among the clergy were responsible for human rights abuses: they ALL were, perhaps not directly, but through their subservient complicity in a culture of clericalism, where excessive hierarchical deference was shown, through Canon Law, especially to the pope and the Magisterium.

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  2. No, no, Pat! It's absolutely crucial that the bishops speak out courageously and give leadership at this critical time . I was very glad to hear them do so . Making the mistakes of the past an excuse for not doing the correct thing now would be extremely misguided indeed. Some bishops did not speak out to condemn and prevent abuses in a timely manner on previous occasions when we would have expected them to do so but the little precarious lives of more unborn children should not be be held to ransom because of that. What a shortsighted misjudgement that would be Their future wellbeing is FAR more important than our efforts to "make a point" by saying the bishops should not speak now because they hesitated to do the right thing on a previous occasions.
    If ever there was a case of two wrongs wouldn't make a right, this is surely it!
    Pat, please try to think through the implications of issues before you take a narrow view that would do nothing to help the lives of even more young victims - - the unborn.

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    1. I agree with your post.
      Everyone is called to speak for the support of the unborn.
      Using the unborn as a way to attack the church or bishops is a dreadful practice.

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  3. I wonder if "Pro =Choice" includes the choice of the little unborn infant to "choose" to live . I hope his choice is heard and is as valid and valued as ours was when we got the gift of life . God gives the gift of life. We should never interfere and decide we know better. How dare we kill one of his little ones before it even sees the light of day! One day we will face Judgement for our actions (and for our words,Pat) This is a far more important matter than us being opinionated about the bishops.

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  4. I have been very hurt in my life by the utter betrayal of Diarmuid Martin in the office of bishop of Dublin in recent years, but I absolutely salute those bishops you quoted on the blog piece for doing God's work. They must not remain silent. It's a pity you use 3 ridiculing illustrations, almost to mock them. But I believe, Pat, that they have spoken the truth. Yes, their authority is weakened by their poor responses in other areas. So, please Pat, try and look above your hurt on this one issue at least.

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  5. Pat, I can not begin to point out the numerous contradictions you have made in this blog in relation to your own long held views. 'Selective memory' really does appear to be your middle name. sad.

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  6. The thing here is that law will never control the people. People will do the wright thing because it is right not just because the law says so. Jesus did not change the law. He changed the system.

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  7. The baby has no choice.

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  8. Pro-choice = pro-death17 April 2018 at 08:00

    Why is it ok to kill a baby a day before it's born, but murder to kill it a day after it's born?

    I was appalled to read that UK citizens resident in Ireland are angry that they are not allowed to vote in the referendum. Those who commented were pro-death. Have the British not done enough harm to Ireland these past 800 years?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. And Ireland has done them 'enough harm', too, 08:00.

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  9. It would be better if the 8th was replaced with provision for abortion in cases of fatal fetal abnormality.

    In all other caes there are choices such as;
    To have sex, or not
    To use contraception, or not
    To use the morning after pill, or not.

    I know not all choices above apply to all situations, but there is always a choice other than abortion, with the exception fatal fetal abnormalities.

    Some people may say that i haveva lack of compassion for women. To them I say you have a lack of compassion for babies. They did not choose to be created, they were created and in making choices to creat them someone was accepting responsibility for their choices. Let them not reject the responsibility for their choices.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Babies 'did not choose to be created'. Take it up with God.

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  10. For god sake pat shut up regurgitating material over and over again. No one would ever guess you hate the CC

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    1. I do not "hate" the CC.

      I hate the corruption in the RCC.

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    2. Please be honest Pat, you hate everything about the Catholic Church and all your blog does is to spread vile hatred against it.

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    3. Every true child of God hates the corruption in His Church but they also know that the Lord has appointed a Day for His Justice to be made manifest before all the ages, when He will remove, from the midst of His people, every cause of offence and vestige of Evil.

      You, Pat Buckley, though - your agenda is totally different. You are a man entirely driven by every whim of your own towering ego.

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    4. Pat I am sorry, you do appear to hate the Roman Catholic Church even more than the Rev. Ian Paisley did in his day. If you dont why do you attack it at every oportunity. If you are a true priest/bishop you come across as very bitter, something that Jesus never came across in his time on earth and is someone priests should model themselves on.

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  11. Should have kept his mouth shut.
    He knows nothing about women’s bodies.

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  12. We should not at all be surprised that Pat would use the horrendous abuse scandals to promote an anti Catholic, anti Bishop agenda and furthermore to present his vision as the one that's most compassionate. Irrespective of the sinful failures of some church personnel and the devastation caused to many by abuse, the Church has a mandate from Christ to preach the truths and teachings of its moral beliefs and principles. It is outrageous of you Pat to take so impoverished a position on the sanctity and sacredness of the unborn child. The precious gift of the Life of the unborn child is not a "clump if cells" or an "unwanted commodity" to be disposed of, killed, destroyed. Caricaturing the seriousness of what abortiin is by placing a cleric on a "pile" with a placard reading "murderer" with a repeal figure close by is a despicably low tactic. But then, we ought not to be surprised as you will use any failings of the Church - horrendous as they are - to undermine the teaching authority of the Bishops and the serious moral and ethical issue of abortion. I am delighted to have such strongly worded, clear, umambigiius statements issued by Bishops for Catholics and the compassionate tone of their content. As someone once said "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall fir anything". In your case Pat, what an apt truism. You do indeed fall for anything - so long as it is self promoting. Our Bishops have a moral mandate from Christ - they must not equivicate in this responsibility, despite Pat's nasty, biased prejudice and hatred of the Catholic Church.

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    1. Maybe Christ regards your bishops as the New Pharisees?

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    2. No Pat. You are not the absolutist moral teacher. Never will be as you fall for anything. I look to my Bishops, and I pray for them. There is more a phariseeism in you than any Bishop I know. Hypocrite. Your depictions and caricaturing are ignorant and morally offensive.

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    3. Isn't there something in the good book about removing the plank from your own eye first? You Pat are the archetypal modern day pharisee; but it's true that there are none so blind as those who will not see.

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  13. Society is well able to make its own decisions without the interference from the boys in black. This is all about control-or the loss of it over the people of Ireland. It’s the churches’ last hurrah. They’ve lost it in many other spheres of life so in this year of the family gathering there will be a big push. Abortion is available in England yet I see no evidence of widespread euthanasia. Scare tactics again. Young Ireland can see through the black and purple chaps and won’t wear it.

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    1. I think you're in for an eye opener my friend. The Irish people will not sanction the slaughter of the innocents.

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    2. @10.24 It’s people like you who said the same regarding the same sex Referendum. Look what happened.

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    3. There is widespread murder of the unborn, sometimes on cosmetic or trivial mis-timing issues such as when it might interfere with a promotion opportunity . One of those occurred in my firm recently...

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    4. I do hope she got the job

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  14. Pro Choice Dublin17 April 2018 at 10:23

    The Catholic Church should stay out of this because they haven’t the control over people they used to have. We now live in a more modern, vibrant and outward looking Ireland, the Church (thank goodness) is losing its stranglehold. I shall be voting in this Referendum as a protest against the Church’s archaic stance on Abortion, it should be available under ALL circumstances. Many of the younger generation are Pro Choice and it’s now an opportunity for us to send out a message to Bishops in their out of touch Ivory Towers that we will not be told what to do anymore. You’ve had your day, many do not listen to you anymore and Ireland is moving forward not backwards.

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    1. The taking of a life is murder irrespective of who makes that assertion. Personally I think the bishops are such a tarnished brand that they should keep silent on the issue, but the truth stands for itself. The deliberate termination of a human life at any stage is wrong and offends the most fundamental of human rights, the right on which all others are based - the right to life. To see Amnesty Ireland campaigning for the right to kill is an obscenity.

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    2. Abortionist at 10:23 - the Catholic Church will NOT “stay out of this” - you must be joking.

      And there are still plenty of Irish young people who see through the aggressive abortionist machine’s lies mouthed by its dupes (like you).

      “Modern, vibrant and outward looking”?? “Forward not backwards” is it? You would have the barbarism of the abortion abbatoirs on our streets. You are going forwards to the black pit of Hell.

      Don’t crow too loudly too soon abortionist and your screaming harpies. There are still enough Catholics left in Ireland to give you and your wicked ilk a run for your money, who know the truth about your hellish and satanic abortionist death cult.

      Young Irish woman, Dublin.

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    3. @11.16 Your response with such hateful language does your cause no good. It’s people like you and the Bishops who get people’s backs up and will use this Referendum as a protest vote. It’s just the way it is. The more and more you tell young people nowadays not to do something then they will do the opposite.

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    4. I think you should look thoughtfully at poster 00.57

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    5. @13.06 I will read whatever post I choose to not you.

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    6. @12:25 - straight talking and not mincing your words is not “hateful language”. If you are looking for hatred take a look at the demonic viciousness of the abortion lobby. If they don’t get their evil way in May they will go berserk. Btw and fyi, not all young people are pro-aborts. Many are prolife.

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    7. 10.23: The next time you hold a new born baby in your arms (if you are allowed), ask yourself one question - how could anyone ever contemplate destroying/killing such a gift, such a unique creation? And were you to attempt to harm this new born child in any way, you'd be arrested for child abuse. So, think honestly and intelligently about the true meaning of abortion, which is tge cruelkest form of child abuse.Abortion is not just a Catholic moral issue: it's an issue of human rights being denied to the most fragile, defenceless human being - an unborn child. For your information, thousands of young people marched in the recent pro life rally in Dublin in March. To that truth, you seem also blind. Pro Choice = pro killing of the unborn child. Keep moving forward and soon you'll fall into your own hell.

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  15. Is it not time now for RTÉ to drop that Angelus bell before the News. It makes our Country look ridiculous to people who visit here, times have changed. I say get rid of it.

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    1. If you ever visit an Islamic country you will become quickly accustomed to the call to prayer being broadcast loudly several times daily People who visit those countries accept and respect that custom. You think that the Angelus bell "makes us look ridiculous"? It most certainly does not. Learn to have the confidence to respect and tolerate parts of our beautiful Irish culture and traditions that visitors very often appreciate in a way that would put your scoffing to shame . Is being reminded of the God Who created you even once a day too much for you? Is that where we have finally reached? Very sad .

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    2. 10.47: Isn't it interesting what you perceive makes us look ridiculous - Angelus bell on TV! You imbecile. Does not the presence of so many homeless people on our streets shame us more? Get a life and open your eyes and your conscience. Another abortionist no doubt?

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    3. I remember reading the bio of an Irish Anglican lady who had no love for the catholic establishment but she admitted that the sound of the Angelus ( is it ever called the Regina bell?) was a reminder of home.

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    4. 14.01 The Angelus bell broadcast on RTÉ is not part of our Irish culture. It’s influenced by the Catholic Church which is not representative of many people now in Ireland - those days are gone. We need to have a national serious debate about this. Islamic countries call to prayer the vast majority of people who practice Islam in those countries. In Ireland the vast majority do not practice their religion - huge difference. Time for the Angelus on RTÉ to go.

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    5. The Angelus bell is a much-respected part of our Irish culture But like many other treasured things, places, beautiful old buildings etc etc, there will always be Philistines who cannot wait to destroy it until we are all living in such a bland undistinguished place which could be anywhere with nothing special about it. Of course, there are some people who cringe when they hear the Angelus bell as it causes an unwelcome twinge of conscience.. an unwelcome reminder of their lapsed status. That's why it hits such a nerve! Time for some honesty..


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  16. I think you may have a point about moral authority and the Church at present.

    I personally am Prolife and personally opposed to abortion. Having said that I don’t believe that the battle front of this issue is about if abortions are available in the country or not. The battlefront, I believe, is in quietly and powerfully giving love and support to those facing crisis pregnancy’s. Without judgement. Without trying to steer these vulnerable people. Just providing Love and support.

    I don’t lecture anyone about the topic. I don’t try and pontificate.

    For example a friend discovered she was pregnant and it was definitely a crisis pregnancy. With little or no family support and an overwhelming social circle that said “get rid of “it” (a horrible term to me)”

    I invited the friend to stay with my Girlfriend and I for a few days. Just to show a little bit of support at the scary time.

    I never once mentioned anything to do with Abortion: for or against. We just cared for an listened to our friend.

    I could sense a conflict within the friend. On one hand social conditioning, friends and society in general said that no good thing could come of it. On the other there was something instinctive and maternal at work.

    Our friend was afraid and felt alone. We did our best to just be there for her.

    Now occasionally when she comes to our house for Lunch she brings her wonderful Son.

    If she had made another decision we would have been there and cared for her just the same.

    I’m left with the lasting impression that this approach does more than shouting at poor women attending family planning clinics.

    People say that Men never have to face the question of Pro Life. I couldn’t disagree less. Men do the majority of the Killing in this word: usually on a street or battlefield.

    It’s another side to the same coin in my opinion. In combat situations men make hard choices about respect for Human Life.

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    1. Well done, good and faithful servants, for you showed love instead of moral judgement and legalism; you showed this poor young woman my compassionate face and heart.

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  17. I have been commenting on this blog for years. This is my final comment. I object to the disgraceful images you have employed and have no intention of inflicting such bigotry on myself.

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    1. My Good Friend, An image speaks a thousand words.

      You cannot deny, can you, that the RC hierarchy has had all Irish people, men and women, "by the short and curlies" over sexuality for decades and centuries.

      Think of the pain that caused so many.

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    2. 12.14: Buckley, you thick planker. Abortion has nothing to do with the hierarchy wanting moral control: it's about the deliberate taking/killing of the unborn child. Stop muddying the waters on so serious a moral and ethical matter in the defense of the sanctity of the unborn child. You always belittle other people's arguments on serious issues by being smarmy and reckless with the truth. As said once of a politician - you play loose with truth.

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  18. How morally bankrupt you are Pat. Now you are using the failings of Church leadership over abuse to proclaim your utter detestation of them once again, all in an attempt to undermine their mandate from Christ to preach the TRUTH and their moral teachings. Let's state abortion for its' true meaning and stop equivocating: the deliberate taking/killing of the unborn child. Pat, you blow with the wind, all for your self aggrandizement. We see you for what you are: a bigoted, nasty, prejudiced hater of all things Catholic. The unborn child should not be seen as a clump of cells, to be disposed of when inconvenient. You, Pat, have no hierarchy of values if you compromise on this most fundamental of human rights - the right to life of the unborn child. I won't sacrifice my principle for the expediency of popularity. Your caricaturing of the Tuam Babies is despicably ignorant and very offensive to all survivors. You should straighten your moral compass: it's very crooked.

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  19. The Roman Catholic Church should just provide silence in regards to this upcoming referendum in Ireland. When it comes to human life and sexuality issues, the Roman Catholic Church has no authority at all. They have lost that from decades of clerical sexual abuse and mistreatment of minors.

    The sad thing is, they do not seem to understand this, and think they have the moral high ground again.

    They think they can say and bully as they always have done, but this time they are up against severe opposition and from people who will not be bullied by this church.

    Dignified silence is what is required, and let the Irish people make up their own mines on this issue from facts, and not from a church which has a litany (if I can use that religious word) of horror stories when it comes to the rights of woman to determine what happens in their own bodies.

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    1. It's not just "about women's own bodies" though.. Far from it! It's about a separate little life which has the same rights as you or I have. It is NOT the same as if for example, a woman refused to have an amputation or say, chemotherapy because it was "her own body". That would be fine. It is a completely different situation. You must think about this and distinguish carefully between the two.

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  20. First, its only making a circus of the issue by caring what Jesus or his Church would make of abortion. Jesus had no problem with a corrupt people being told by his God to stone adulteresses who had to have been pregnant to death. If you consider abortion immoral this man or his religion is no safeguard against them. They have no moral compass but a superficial one.

    Second, if our own cells could just grow into people inside it is obvious that it is our body and we can kill them or go to a doctor.

    Third, God is the biggest abortionist of all for most babies are aborted naturally in the womb. We think of natural as that which has no intervention. But intervention is natural so abortion in a clinic by modern medicine is made possible by nature and is natural. Abortion is a gift of God.


    Many in the Churches forbid abortion under all circumstances and even when it could save the mother's life. Some Catholics who believe in the ban think that abortion is never necessary to save a woman's life. But even if that is true, it has nothing to do with the ban on abortion. The Church would still ban abortion if say the vast majority of women needed abortion to live. There is a real hatred of women in the Church's attitude.
     
    Christians who oppose abortion appeal to the Bible, for them it is the only book in the world that God authored, to find proof that abortion is against the will of God.
     
    The Bible God emphasises that the life of the flesh is in the blood. To remind the people of that, they were not allowed to eat an animal unless the blood was all out. On that basis, some Christians allow abortion on demand before the circularity system appears. It is certain that the Bible does not say life begins at conception for it does not even understand what conception is. If you think an egg and sperm coming together starts off a potential life then you might see this not as conception but a progress to conception. Conception could be redefined as when the entity becomes a person. The Bible writers might have seen it that way but there are no grounds for holding that they would have considered a fertilised egg to be a person.

    Strange that with Islam and Judaism and Christianity's obsession with opposing abortion the Bible is silent on the subject. No wonder for it never had any real respect for life anyway.

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    1. I think if you read your Bible a little more thoroughly, you will find that Jesus did "have a problem" with the practice of stoning women caught in adultery. There are several other errors in your homespun interpretations also. You are attempting to abuse Scripture to score your own points and justify your Church criticisms. It has been done before ....

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  21. The cartoons used today are insensitive, offensive and morally unacceptable. They do not add anything except hurt to the many survivors of The Tuam Babies Home. No priest ever in today's pastoral sittings in hospitals hovers over a sick or pregnant woman without their permission. There are strict protocols to be observed. The priest with a chain - disgusting. Sorry Pat, if these ignorant, offensive cartoons are all you have to offer, your moral integrity is in shreds. Incidentally, what is the TRUTH of your issue re: prison visit. We were promised the truth but it seems you are unable to obtain such truth. Lies are dangerous. With your latest promulgations, you belong to the pro choice, abortion lobby. Thank God for the clear and umambiguous teachings of our Catholic Bishops. They are simply carrying out their responsibilities: teaching truths, morally and ethically. How you can align yourself with Amnesty and other groups to advocate abortion (killing of the unborn) is a reprehensible and repulsive move, in the hope undoubtedly to gain favour.

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    1. I disagree.

      I think the cartoons go to the heart of the debate.

      By the way, today's blog is NOT about abortion per see.

      It is about the credibility of the Irish bishops pontificating on abortion.

      AS for my prison - my MP has appealed the decision and we are awaiting a response.

      When I get it I will share it with you.

      I DO NOT belong to the Pro Choice lobby.

      I am opposed to abortion - but open to looking at extreme cases.

      I regard abortion as a evil - but occasionally the lesser of two evils.

      In other words I am not a ranting fundamentalist.

      I have an open mind on rare cases.

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    2. The cartoons are offensive and tasteless in the extreme.. I agree about that.

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    3. Explain why they are offensive.

      There is no nudity, foul language, etc in them.

      Are you mistaking glaring truth for offence and restlessness?

      You do understand, do you not, the power of satire?

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  22. 'Biggest obstacle to the Catholic Church is itself', claims Scottish bishop...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43794727

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  23. Pat, the cartoons are offensive and ignorant - very ignorant. You are using traumatic stories - Tuam Babies - to justify your hatred for the Bishops. You're the one who's pontificating. The Bishops are right to PREACH the truths and teachings of our Church. You can pontificate all you like, the Bishops have a moral mandate and an authority which you don't have. But, the cartoons are offensive.

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    1. I doubt if the Irish Catholic bishops have a mandate of any kind from the majority of the Irish population!

      They did not have it on same sex marriage.

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    2. 14.33: Same sex marriage and abortion are not at all on the same page, you fool. There's a huge moral difference: abortion being the deliberate destruction, killing of an unborn child. Trust you to make that comment Pat!

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    3. The people of Ireland are the only ones who have the right to decide Ireland's on all matters.

      Not representatives of a disgraced religious body.

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    4. The Catholic Bishops in Ireland have nullified any mandate they thought they had by the scandals of the last number of years. They are morally bankrupt by pontificating on how people should live their lives. When we have seen how some Bishops and their many Priests have lived their lives in Ireland recently they have no mandate whatsoever. The younger generation laugh in the face of such hypocrites who are so out of touch. The Catholic Church in Ireland has begun a massive slide and there can be no recovery from that anytime soon.

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    5. Pat re the same sex marriage - dont forget that it says in the bible what god has joined let no one tear apart. It does not say what man or woman that god joins............. Abortion is murder.

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  24. The whole point about good satire is that you do NOT then need to resort to tasteless and offensive cartoons.

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    1. There is such a thing as a satirical cartoon.

      See Charlie Hebdo

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    2. Which one of Charlie Hebdo’s cartoons? The one that showed Our Lord having sex with God the Father? That’s blasphemy not satire.

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    3. I have not seen that cartoon.

      It does not upset me.

      My faith is stronger than that.

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    4. You’re such a legend aren’t you, Pat? My what strong faith you have.

      Still showing Our Lord having sex with His Father (erect penis and all) goes way beyond satire! It’s pure evil - whatever about your Titanium “faith”.

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  25. 14:02, can you, and the other critics, tell me exactly HOW the cartoons are offensive! I know you don't like them, but this doesn't tell me why.

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    1. Imagine if there was a blog and every time someone mentioned Pat there was a ridiculing cartoon of him. It would be so wrong. Imagine if all during the 'peace process' in the north of the country at its most sensitive stages, the media continually produced ridiculing cartoons of the main participants. Perhaps there may be no 'peace process' to speak of. It's a little similar to posters ridiculing you Magna with references to drinking so many times when you post. It's wrong - just plain and simple.

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    2. Stop feeding the troll and providing him with the oxygen of publicity.

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  26. During the marriage equality referendum, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin said: "the time when bishops tell people how to vote is long since gone."

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  27. Satire my a**e. Always have an excuse to justify your ignorance. Belittling the trauma of those genuinely abused. Disgusting.

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  28. This just seems like Pat trying to silence people he perceives as having wronged him. Pat perceives himself as a victim of the Catholic Church and the Catholic hierarchy in particular. The position he adopts seems more about exacting vengeance than changing society.

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    1. Pat is not a victim. He is a survivor.

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    2. As a “survivor”, you appear to be firmly rooted in the past and unable to move beyond the perceived slights against you - just take a look through you blog and see how often you repeat the same stories about Cahal Daly and all the others you see as people who hurt you. To me, that would equate more to a victim mentality than a survivor one.

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    3. Survivors get over the past.

      They don't forget it!

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  29. I so agree with many of the comments so far about the lack of moral standing that the Catholic Church in Ireland has on this matter.

    The Bishops, and their priests, have no mandate to tell us, or more like lecture us, about how to value life. They have shown themselves over the decades to be unworthy of being moral leaders in our country. The damage to their reputation and standing because of the abuse scandal itself, and the lack of moral fibre and leadership from the Bishops over so many decades, has undermined their credibility and the value of their views on these matters. They need to stay quiet and let other voices be heard in this very important matter about the value of life, both of the unborn child and of the mother.

    I myself, on balance, will in all likelihood vote for the change in the constitution so that Ireland can then craft legislation that is fit for the modern world and for the people of Ireland. I will not listen to lectures on these matters from the Catholic Church, and will tell my own priest that he has no mandate to speak on these matters; he can exercise his vote like the rest of us, but from the pulpit he should remain neutral and not pedal any line from the Bishop.

    I count myself as a Catholic, but I have a very realistic understanding of the Church and its role, including its failures. The Catholic Church in Ireland has lost the right to speak about these matters to us. it will take a long time, and much work on their part by their actions rather than their words, to rebuild any trust that I may in the future have in the Church. Only then will I listen to what they say about our lives in Ireland.

    At long last, I think we have cast off the yoke of the Catholic Church and will not think and speak for ourselves. Guided, I trust, by the Holy Spirit of God, who can speak to us without the words being filtered through a thoroughly discredited and morally bankrupt institution like the Catholic Church in Ireland.

    And I say all that as a faithful Catholic ! I hope the Bishops read this and realise what they have done to make me say something like this. And realise how discredited and reviled they are by so many of us who are Catholics.

    When Pope Francis comes to Ireland he should read them the riot act, and drive them out of the Temple, and create a new Catholic Church in Ireland, led by men - and, yes, women - of integrity, honesty, and faith.

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    1. Cast off that yoke, the institutional Roman Catholic Church, by all means, 19:33; but do not cast off your capacity for unlimited and unqualified love by denying life to the unborn. If you do, you deny God full entry to your heart, since he is all of those things. And so very much more.

      We cannot know God if we are not open to life in all of its forms, since he has formed all of life.

      There will be Hell to pay if we ignore this.

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    2. 19.33: Truth is truth. TRUTH IS TRUTH.

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    3. @19.33 Hear Hear, bravo. Best post of the day. Thank you. As a young Catholic I agree with and fully support what you say. I feel 100% the same.

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    4. Yes,yes 19.33. I fully agree with you and I’m a practicing Catholic. Couldn’t concur more.

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    5. @19:33, the bishops and priests have every right to speak and they absolutely must and WILL speak!

      The vast majority of bishops and priests abused no one and, whether you and other half-baked, so-called “Catholics” like it or not, they are mandated to speak by God Himself whose Word and Truth they must, on peril of their immortal souls, teach, uphold and defend.

      Who on earth do you think you are? Furthermore, if you vote for abortion in this referendum you are no Catholic at all.

      No reasonable and sensible person writes off the entirety of the Church and it’s mission because of the evil that some have done. Thinking people do not write off the medical profession because of medical personnel who have abused - likewise sport, the media, the judiciary, the teaching profession.

      If you vote for evil, you are no “faithful Catholic” 19:33, by any definition. In fact, I would say you are more likely a pro-abort making mischief on Buckley’s blog.

      However, if you do go to your priest and tell him he has “no mandate to speak”, I sincerely hope he will tell you to go to Hell and show you the door!

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    6. 19.33: Much of your analysis is true and as a priest I share some, not all, of your insights. However, irrespective of horrendous past failures, of which I am deeply ashamed, the truth of the gospel message and the Church's moral teachings must be preached. I do not lecture when I preach: I share my insights and understanding of Jesus and his gospel messsge. On the issue of the fundamental right to life of the unborn child, in the teaching about the sanctity of the unborn child and the inalienable right to life of the unborn child - these beliefs I will never compromise on. I will preach - not lecture (a very loaded word and as used, has very negative connotations) - on the core truths of the Church. Guided by the Holy Spirit, I pray that the people of God who proclaim their Catholic Faith will embrace the teaching of the Church on the sanctity and preciousness of the life of the unborn child. I believe there is a profound social and moral dimension to our faith which we must courageously practice. Just ask Jesus!

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    7. So you wd think a priest would tell his parishioner to go to hell.
      22.03.
      Somechristian you are.

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    8. 19.33: You cannot be a faithful Catholic and support abortion. The vast vast majority of priests and religious have not abused anyone, thus rendering your argument is fundamentally flawed. The Church must and will preach its core beliefs and teachings. Abortion is the deliberate killing of an unborn child. How can any other human being condone such abuse? That you thunk this is consnant with your catholuc beliefs is delusional on your part. Have a conscience. And if you approach your priest to "lecture" him, you are engaging in censorship. Not very democratic or christian - or intelligent.

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    9. @23:17 in those circumstances YES! Because 19:33 is attempting to muzzle God’s Truth.

      If he/she is not careful Hell is exactly where he/she will end up!

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    10. To poster@ 22.03
      Thank you for your intelligent perception and your courageous
      rebuttal of the so-called "best post" which was anything but best!

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  30. People should vote according to their conscience.
    (The Real Sr. Mary)

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    1. go wan outer that! your no more a nun that I'm the crown prince of Vanuatu.

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    2. It should be an informed conscience.

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    3. 22.10: Sr. Mary of the Tabernacle Door Half Open, you can't be for real, can you? If so, Sr. Gondotti would be a more apt name! Get it....

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    4. A real nun wouldn't come out with such claptrap, which is a travesty of Catholic teaching on conscience, which is elucidated very clearly in the Cathechism.

      http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm

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  31. Pat do you believe with your heart of hearts that all claims of abuse against clergy are true. I dont, and I would say a sizeable amount of claims are false ones, maybe something to do with money or the hope to get money. Why is it that many of the claims are made against clergy that are dead. I am sure you will agree that a dead person cant speak up for themselves. The bishops are right to give their view on the up coming referendum. Whether people agree with them or not is another thing. Like you and me (I will be voting to retain the 8th) the Catholic Bishops are entitled to give their view of being sharing my view, as is the Church of Ireland Bishop of Cashel, Ossory, Ferns, Waterford and Lismore - Michael Borrows who has said recently that he will be voting to repeal the 8th.

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  32. I'm working on a book about Maynooth. I'll keep you all updated.

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  33. Sr. Mary @ 2210, I wish you would just shut up. No wonder why they gave you the shoe out of that Convent.

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