Wednesday, 16 May 2018

THE IRISH COLLEGE SAGA




TWO IRISH SEMINARIANS "LEFT" THE IRISH COLLEGE IN ROME IN RECENT WEEKS AND THIS LEAVING HAS LED TO VARIOUS AND DIFFERING REPORTS WITHIN THE CHURCH AND IN THE MEDIA.

One of the seminarians - Conor Gannon - has sent solicitor's letters to at least prominent national Irish newspapers.


He is making the very strong points that:

A. He left the college on his own accord and was not asked to leave.

B. The report that two seminarians were found in bed is absolutely unfounded.

MGSR O'CARROLL - RECTOR - IRISH COLLEGE


Conor and the other seminarian from Kildare have asked the rector of The Irish College - Monsignor O'Carroll and the Archbishop of Dublin - Diarmuid Martin to make a statement about the "leaving".



Both churchmen have declined to do so to the present time.

In a meeting with journalists the other day - at a school opening Mass in Dublin - Archbishop Martin insisted that he not willing to discuss individual cases.

That is obviously his very strong position.

The seminarians who left also say that the incident in question was the result of excess alcohol.

There are a number of important questions that arise that the men themselves - and indeed the interested public - would like clarified.

1. Is having too much alcohol on one occasion a sufficient reason for leaving the seminary?

2. Had the seminarians started drinking earlier that evening while attending a function in The Vatican concerned with the anniversary of the papal encyclical Humane Vitae?

3. Did the seminarians then go on to another Roman establishment of a very different type than The Vatican and continue drinking there?

4. Were the seminarians caught later that night / early morning on Irish College CCTV cameras?




5. If so, what was the content of that CCTV and did it contain anything that might leave to college departures?

6. Has that CCTV content been secured to be produced IF a legal case ensues?

7. If there is such a case brought before the courts will Archbishop Martin. Monsignor O'Carroll and other prominent churchmen be summoned to give evidence?




8. Has the seminarian concerned considered the principle "He who comes to equity must come with clean hands"  before starting legal proceedings?

9. Has the Kildare seminarian proved himself a wiser man by not issuing solicitor's letters, keeping a low profile and waiting for the matter to blow over?


OSCAR WILDE CASE


The classic case of poor Oscar Wilde is worth the consideration of any young gentleman thinking of going to court.

It was the case that Wilde himself brought for defamation that sealed his sad fate.

--------------------------------------------------------

JAMES O' CONNELL ISSUED WITH SOLICITOR'S LETTER BY ARCHBISHOP EAMON MARTIN


The Middletown, Armagh man who has been visiting various clerical personages in the Archdiocese of Armagh to talk about a relative of his been sexually hurt by a priest has now received a solicitor's letter from Archbishop Eamon Martin.



The letter warns Mr. McConnell is that he is not to approach officers and employees of the Archdiocese of Armagh - or to record them.

The letter states that the archbishop is reluctant to take legal proceedings against Mr. McConnell - but certainly indicates that such action might be taken if he does not desist.





Mr. McConnell was traurmtised at a young age by the events he had to witness.

He has now being to the PSNI.

The PSNI have said that Mr. McConnell's relative does not want to take action against a priest.

118 comments:

  1. I suppose there are two sides to every story. Interesting how the church now seems to be engaging with civil law. It's a step in the right direction. Let's see if civil law will bring the truth to light. Let's pray the truth will set all free

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Civil law in this case is being used to bury the situation. EM is using it to force James to either,
      A) pull the trigger on his accuasations and go to the psni, or
      B) face being the defendant

      The trouble is that James was not the victim in his allegations so the Psni cannot act on his word. So the real choice is;
      A) shut up
      B) be the defendant if he keeps speaking up.

      The trouble with that is that as he was not the victim he may not be able to produce the justification for his allegations, and even if he could he may still be guilty of trespass and harrassment no matter how justified his actions were.

      An alternative route:
      I dont know about up North but in the Rep we have avenues to report suspected child abuse to Tusla, even where we are uninvolved 3rd parties. Can James access that? Or was the priest involved ever stationed south of the border, which makes this avenue a reasonable route? EM may be forced to deal with Tusla.

      Either way EM has acted like he has something to hide or something that he does not want to get out into public forums.

      Delete
    2. I think that EM does not want another priest scandal on his hands for a while.

      Delete
    3. True. Plus at the moment the bishops get really annoyed if the current nuncio is also informed of a complaint. I am not sure why, but I believe he is bringing reports back to Rome in a supervisory manner.

      Currently the best route is to write once to the bishop. Wait 1 month. If your complaint is not acknowleged write a letter of complaint to the Pope, forward it to the nuncio and ask him to pass it to the relevant congregation in Rome. In my recent experience this results in a letter back from a prefect and an Irish Bishop getting really thick about it and opening dialogue.

      Delete
    4. ‘Write to the Nuncio’ fella is back again.

      Delete
    5. @20.23
      FYI, that is my first time mentioning writing to the nuncio on any blog. Plus, the church is universal, the Irish bishops do not stand alone. The Patriarch of Rome is head of the bishops and we are all subject to supervision in work.

      Delete
    6. I wouldn't fancy being the Nuncio's correspondence secretary at this rate.

      Delete
  2. if they are home its because its the holidays. Why do you always make a mountain out of a mohill Pat? these two are private citizens and you're a married man, a pensioner with his own ministry to look after.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Summer holidays in The Irish College do not begin at the end of April.

      For God's sake that's just after Easter.

      Even the sems themselves are saying that "something" happened!

      Delete
    2. The Irish Catholic is reporting today that all the media outlets apart from one (the Irish Times) have taken down the Irish College story. The letters seem to have worked.

      Delete
    3. I would take great notice about what the Irish Times do.

      Their sources are impeccable.

      As for the Irish Catholic?

      I would not rate it as a real newspaper.

      It is a church magazine.

      Delete
    4. The Irish Catholic, what a laugh!! Who ever takes that excuse of a paper seriously? It’s too busy running after the Bishops and trying to placate them.

      Delete
    5. I'm raging that I turned down a job offer in 1990 from the IC. It was in their advertising dept. I had a slightly better paid offer in London. I could have brought a property in Dublin on the cheap and then rode the Celtic Tiger property wave. Unbelievably my interview was done over the phone.

      Delete
    6. Isn't the Irish Times considered to be the national "newspaper of record"?

      Delete
  3. I am not qualified to practice law but I do have a degree in it so if I may be permitted to indulge on my crude understanding of the law.

    1. Conon's solicitor's letter may have merit: normally seminarians are asked to leave before they are thrown. This means their departure is never final and they may return later in life.

    2. Sean's response is more unprofessional/panicked and unrealistic. The College, if they were to make a public statement on an individual case might later be accused of breaching data protection and would need to be indemnified first by Sean. Even at that such would be unprecedented and as such be outside normal professional behaviours.

    3. Moreover, and aside from point 2, the catechism teaches against detraction - i.e. the spreading of accurate but bad-news stories about people's characters. It is against the church's own teachings to make a public statement about why a person decided to exit seminary where such a desmcision resulted from an incident.

    4. Clean hands certainly is a principle of law, but it is a principle for going to court. Anybody can get a threatening solicitor's letter and most issues are thus resolved or burried before arriving at court.

    5. Clearly some incident happened by virtue of the admittance that "the incident that happened was the result of excess alcohol". If anything went to court Sean and Conor may not want to admit what that incident was.

    6. Does defamation arise from leaving seminary? If people report that they did something that resulted in them having to leave the college than that seems to be a true reflection of their character. The newspapers have deemed such to be newsworthy.

    7. Does defamation arise from alleging they had sex? In this day and age an allegation that they had sex is unlikely to damage their character as most people would understand such an urge, regardless of orientation, and people are accepting of all orientations anyway. No defamation arises from the incident.

    EM's letter.
    1. It seems he should be offering the man aid to access counselling - EM is a pastor yes?

    2. Is Eamon referring to priests as employees? If so does revenue know?

    3. It would be interesting to see his earlier replies and if he has genuinely tried to resolve the matters.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you.

      Good, clear thinking and commentary.

      Delete
    2. The whole Gannon thing could prove to be a house of cards. He’s popular with an English Semenarian in Rome and his priest friends in England....

      Delete
    3. I think Conor met his English friend while in Valladolid. Gorgeous also made some nice international friends there too.

      Delete
    4. Most lawyers will advise people not to pursue defamation cases in court unless their cupboards are relatively free of skeletons.

      I once brought a successful case to the Dublin High Court and was grilled for 4 days in the box.

      I was awarded £120,000.

      My lawyers took £115,000 of that :-)

      Delete
    5. Bishop Pat @ 16:53, why did you have to pay your legal bill? Weren't these costs awarded against your opponent?

      Delete
    6. You don't understand "no win no fee" you eegit. The opposite is "you win, my fee". That's the business model. The lawyers who advertise these deals are not charities. They'd go bust if it was simply "no win, no fee" as most actions are lost.

      Delete
    7. No, I'm not an 'eegit', you illiterate prick.

      But you're a fool.😆

      Delete
    8. Costs are not usually awarded in civil cases unless the action by the complainant was vexatious. Keep out of something not in your domain, MC

      Delete
    9. @23.29
      *unless the action by the defendant was vexatious... ya eegit

      Delete
  4. EM has done the correct thing he only thing wrong he was slow to act and should have got Lawyers quicker as it was total harassment to his Clergy and staff.
    As for calling everyone Staff this is a lawyer writing that then clears it up at the end revenue will NOT be interested they tried it in the High Courts in Scotland and the Priest lost everyone knows they are self employed but are self employed staff of each diocese.
    I just hope James gets the help he needs.
    As for the Seminarians I hope have gone and any others in the same position soon will be gone over the next few years NO more clinics it is goodbye.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Irish Scot illiterate alert. No mention of a papal nuncio?

      Delete
    2. Well spotted though I'm astonished at the lack of the word "Nuncio", tbh.

      Delete
    3. 19:50, your posts are unchristian. True. But unchristian.

      Delete
    4. As if you have the right to decide on what's unChristian after all your madness and bile.

      Delete
  5. MAGHERAFELT

    We had a great groundsman a few years ago but gates bullied him that much he had no other option but to get out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Were there no men in Magherafelt capable of facing down this bully?

      If I came from Maghera-felt-incapable, I'd cringe with embarrassment.

      It's now beyond hilarity for anyone to speak of 'the men of Magherafelt'. 😅

      Delete
    2. Magherafelt people in general feel very intimidated by Father Gates.

      He has exercised crude power.

      Delete
    3. I know a parish where the curate tried to bully people. In the end the local Garda has to go to Bishop's house and tell the bishop to move the curate because the locals were talking in such a manner that the gardai were concerned for the priest's safety.

      The bishop moved him but nothing changed except the names of the people complaining... that curate has had more moves than a chess-master but never learns.

      Delete
    4. Jeez H Christ! Billy Bunteresque, the pint-sized menace, defeats the 'men' of Magherafelt.

      You couldn't make up this ludicrous nonsense.

      Jeez!!!! I'm dying of shame...and I (thank the Lord) do not come from that pit of masculine shame, the home of 'oul Jinnies', MAGHERAFELT.

      Delete
    5. MAGHERAFELT: THE HOME OF EFFETE MASCULINITY. 😅

      Delete
    6. Very droll.

      Delete
  6. At least James just got a Solicitors letter whereas Eamon Martin got you lifted by the police Pat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. True :-)

      Mind you the police decided there was no case to answer.

      Delete
    2. I was under the impression Pat that the Police questioned you as opposed to ‘lifting you’ which is a different matter. Words and phrases are important and can be interpreted in different ways by those with a hidden agenda.

      Delete
    3. You are quite correct.

      I attended a voluntary interview with the PSNI.

      I was never "lifted".

      And the PSNI decided there was no case to answer.

      Delete
  7. Pat the situation currently in maynooth is rather odd. Mullaney and Collins have created a fomation structure based on the Berlin Syndrome. The structure is rather cunning and devious, meaning they attempt to befriend a seminarian in order to coercive them to share information on both the hetero sexual seminarians and gay seminarians.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @11.51 zzzzzzzzzzzzz Have you no studies to attend to instead of bitching?

      Delete
    2. 11:51, it's 'Berlin Syndrome', not 'the Berlin Syndrome'. What you are referring to is a work of fiction, not a set of psychological symptoms.

      And if the 'situation' at Maynooth is as you described, then it has nothing whatever to do with the plot of that novel/movie. Your sense of literary juxtaposition is awry.

      Incidentally, the plot of Berlin Syndrome seems just a little short of plagiarizing that of Misery, the brilliant movie fiction with Cathy Bates and James Caan.

      Delete
    3. The Maynooth system is toxic in the extreme.

      Delete
  8. Both seminarians were allegedly expelled, so there must be some reason for their expulsion.

    Of course, they each had an opportunity to phone-in and give the true version of events after +Pat raised the matter on Red FM last Friday.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I hope that letter puts manners on James McConnell.

    ReplyDelete
  10. King Puck must feel proud as his young student Moriarty becomes another mini celebrity. There needs to be a Tv show Maynooth cribs.

    ReplyDelete
  11. You have it well censored today Buckley you moron!
    Protect wee Jamie mmmm McConnell you clown.
    The world is laughing at you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I will not publish extreme and threatening comments.

      Delete
    2. You post threatening and insulting comments against others when it suits you!

      Delete
    3. Why is James McConnell able to run about frightening people? He should be in a locked ward in Purdysburn.

      Delete
  12. not many comments today as the blog does not involve maynooth concers

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, it is the readers, not me, who decide how many comments go on a Blog - apart, of course, from the small number of daily comments are unsuitable for publication.

      Delete
  13. Apologies Pat, should not use language that work be kin to James McConnell, but you religiously fail to understand the anger and resentment towards him here in the Middletown area, embarrassing for us!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you.

      I do understand that James McConnell gets under many people's skins and that there are a number of people in the area who are very irate with him.

      Delete
    2. Thank you and again my apologies for the foul comments, not really me.

      Delete
  14. The Maynooth concerns blog failed in one unique area of describing what the named seminarians did. I am truly disappointed in you Pat. By failing to clarify what these seminarians did you are in fact colluding with Mullaney and Collins.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have detailed the concerns in letters to bishops.

      I always do this to give them the chance to act before I am more explicit.

      But I will give more details.

      Delete
    2. Dermo is visiting Maynooth village this Saturday to celebrate the Vigil Mass in the parish church and to open the new parish pastoral centre. I wonder if he'll pop into the college to check if any strange goings-on are going on?

      Delete
  15. Thank you Pat for clarifying your position.

    ReplyDelete
  16. More abuse reports from Chile. I wonder if any Irish missionaries were involved?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/more-chilean-sex-abuse-victims-speak-up-during-pope-summit/2018/05/16/3026daac-5911-11e8-9889-07bcc1327f4b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.96a48c36e18d

    ReplyDelete
  17. MAGHERAFELT

    Pat you can’t speak for our Parish. You don’t live here or know the people. Hearing one sided stories from a small number of bratty people does not give you the right to run us down or our Parish Priest.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Magherafelt parishioner,

      You are quite welcome to contact me and give your side to the story and I will reflect it on the Blog.

      I have heard 12+ horror stories about Magherafelt in the past 10 days.

      I have formed the strong impression that your absent PP is a bully.

      Hurt people are meeting in the next few days.

      THEY are all associated with Magherafelt.

      Delete
    2. 17.23: You, Buckley, are a disgrace to your own self respect and dignity, not that you have much of either. As for integrity - zero.

      Delete
    3. :-)

      Your comment upsets me so much I won't sleep tonight!

      I have more integrity in my little finger than you have in your whole carcass.

      Delete
    4. Not so sure if you could ever sleep with your bitterness and hatred towards other!

      Integrity??? Show the world your examples!

      Delete
    5. @17:37

      Surely, the "hedge clippings" isn't among them? That's hardly a horror story, +Pat.

      Delete
  18. ROME

    Rome is awash with rumours that Francis will name new cardinals on Saturday.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A wee birdie informed me that Jamie mmmmm McConnell has been mentioned for one, that would be some craic with the camel boots and blue never ending jeans, ohh and forgot to say the video phone would have to be disarmed!

      Delete
    2. @18.45 Splitting my sides here with your humour (not)!!

      Delete
    3. @19:00 Poor Jamie on the bounce back hehe.
      My heart is shattered with that rude comment:)

      Delete
    4. 18:10, you sound like the rumour monger on here some time ago announcing the death of someone still alive.

      Delete
    5. Let's wait and see. I'll accept your apologies on Saturday.

      Delete
    6. I wasn't the premature death announcer.

      Delete
    7. 18:10 and 23:06 Yes.

      Delete
  19. @17.34 You can’t speak anonymously for our parish either. You are very much in the minority of enabling a bully Priest and condoning his bullying behaviour.

    ReplyDelete
  20. 18.10 Rumours? Is that all we have got to go on?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Pat, I think it would be madness for a defamation case like this to proceed to Court. How many witnesses would you call Pat? Just think of the dirty laundry that would be washed in public not to mention the very intimate questioning by you, presuming you would represent yourself. The media in Ireland would have a field day!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have represented myself in courts up to and including the High Court.

      I would indeed represent myself.

      My summoned witness list would read like a Who's Who of the Irish Catholic Church.

      My material would be exhaustive.

      My questioning would be forensic.

      Delete
    2. Ulster is British. A Free State court has no jurisdiction over a resident of loyal Larne, surely?

      Delete
    3. Bishop Pat @ 18:27, didn't know you had represented yourself in court, including the High Court.

      I'm impressed. The talent obviously runs in the family, your beloved dad having been a barrister. Was you dad an S.C.?

      Delete
    4. Unlikely as he was called to the Bar at 57. You were called to the bar at 10:57 this morning.

      Delete
    5. Well when you are a "personal ligigant" you have more passion for the case.

      Plus, of course, I could not afford thousands a day for lawyers.

      My Dad was forced to leave school at 12 due to family poverty.

      He was a very intelligent man and tried to make up his education.

      In his mid 40s he did a BA in philosophy, archeology and economics.

      He then attended the Kings Inns in Dublin and was called to the bar aged 57.

      Sadly he died 3 years later aged 60.

      He was totally addicted to cigarettes and they did for him in the end :-(

      Delete
    6. Any news from Dromore?

      Delete
    7. Dromore; where Hugh Connolly and his croissant is the everready skeletion in the cupboard.

      Delete
    8. 19:49, Not guilty, m' lud! 😆 (Hic!🍻)

      Delete
    9. Sorry, Bishop Pat, for your beloved dad's untimely death.

      You must have been very proud of this clever bastardo's academic achievements.

      Yes? ☺

      Delete
  22. MAYNOOTH FUND RAISING

    Maynooth is using expensive headhunters to recruit for a highly-paid Director of Fundraising and Alumni Relations. They must be intending to stay open. Part of the role is to extract $$$$$ from gullible Irish-Americans. Including getting them to spend millions on a college chapel that's locked up 98% of the year. In a deeply cynical move, Maynooth University is putting a lot of pressure on St Patrick's College to use seminary/church funds to renovate the Russell library, which will cost €millions. It's deeply cynical in that MU realises that the assets of SPCM will be theirs, sooner or later.

    ReplyDelete
  23. That's some legal bill. Its a shame you didnt get £120k + legal expenses. But thankfully you faired better than Albert Reynolds £0.01 award in 1996 (the judge gave him a penny after the jury gave him nil damages). 

    Thankfully the Defamation Act is now in place so it is no longer a constitutional action requiring High Ct Jurisdiction... if one is willing to accept the low rates a Circuit Ct can offer.

    People need to remember though that if a skeleton is found than the alleged 'defamatory act' might have simply highlighted a person's true character rather than defamed their good character... even if the defamatory action was still factually inaccurate. Why? Because there is no legal right to a public image greater than a true image.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In fairness my legal team represented me "No foal, no fee".

      Your information on the public image is very pertinent.

      Delete
  24. Fr Tom Surlis is suffering under Mullaney and Collins. Its a tragic situation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very sad to hear.

      All my contacts say he is a very good man.

      Delete
    2. If that is true, Tom Surlis needs to find his balls and bring the house down round them. He’s not a child is he? But I suspect an awful lot of spoof and horseshit is being written on this blog.

      Delete
  25. Wilson is linked to Hughie's educational settlement. Dark secrets.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Pat, I hope you are happy that you have ensured the lights at Ara Coeli in Armagh are burning brightly tonight and will continue long into the night. Eamon has returned from Lourdes today to a very hefty in-tray the size of a dung heap. I bet he will wish tonight he never heard of two words before - Gates & Magherafelt.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A dung heap for a dung head.

      Delete
  27. A systematic cover up. Fr Tom Surlis is unaware of this settlement.

    ReplyDelete
  28. The victim needs correct justice compared to Hughie's educational settlement. Wilson needs to come clean. It's shocking. The truth will set Stephen Wilson and the victim free even if the truth is revolting.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why was he given this settlement? What abuse did he suffer?

      Delete
  29. Tom Surlis a message from an old friend get out of Maynooth before all hell breaks out. Tom you do not want to be associated with Collins and Mullaney.

    ReplyDelete
  30. What did Wilson do this time.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Report the issue to the independent panel or investigations@rte.ie.

    ReplyDelete
  32. It's past your bedtime in Maynooth, so shut the f**k up and give our heads peace. To think any of you writing this sh*te on here are Sems is astounding.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Exactly, now remind us again is it "night prayer and lights out" or "light prayer and nights out"?

      Delete
  33. Pat we cant stop the senior students from entering our rooms in the middle of the night. Pat please help us. Stop Marshall and Wilson.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Funny that. When i was in Maynooth every bedroom door had a front door type key. The ability to lock out the whole seminary at the end of the day was the most valued thing i had in Maynooth

      Delete
  34. The victims are under an institutional fear. Bishop Buckley this is the next major Church report of a systematic abuse of seminarians. Their story of fear and suppression needs to be told.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To live in an institutionalised setting is to be abused... ever before pseudopsychology begins

      Delete
  35. Marshall, MOriarty and Wilson must face justice. Abuse is abuse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What have these 3 supposed to have done?

      Delete
    2. For me to know and you to find out.

      Delete
  36. Please refer to Garda confidential line at 1800600111. The greatest evil is to do nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  37. The grooming of the younger seminarians by senior seminarians must be reported. Bishop Buckley this is intentional grooming.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Pat can you please provide your international audience with information on what is going on in Maynooth seminary.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Bishop Buckley can you break down the situation in maynooth seminary.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Guys stop fighting. As Fr Mullaney states we must build upon fraternity and love one another.

    ReplyDelete