Saturday, 16 June 2018

CHURCH DECLINE IN IRELAND - DIOCESE BY DIOCESE



Pope Francis will visit Ireland later this year but will find a different country to that which welcomed his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, almost four decades ago


NEWS: Survey warns about ageing Church 

By Noel Baker, Social Affairs Correspondent THE EXAMINER

Senior figures within the Catholic Church are warning that the ageing profile of priests and the lack of new ordinations could mean a further reduction in its footprint around the country.


A handful of dioceses and archdioceses have parishes which do not have a resident priest


LIMERICK:

There are 60 parishes and 65 priests, but 27 are due to retire in the next decade.
In Kilmore’s 34 parishes, there are 72 priests, but just 45 are below the retirement age of 75 and there have been no ordinations in five years

ARMAGH:

61 parishes - 115 priests and 14 permanent deacons. 

There are also 25 retired priests, a small number of whom are able to provide assistance locally on a part-time basis.

In the last five years nine priests have retired. This has been offset by the ordination of seven priests and the introduct
ion of five priests on loan from Poland, India and Africa, in the same timespan.

Currently, there are 14 permanent deacons ministering in the diocese, of whom, five were recently ordained in September 2017. All 14 permanent deacons are assigned to parishes and a few are also involved in hospital and prison chaplaincy. Most of our permanent deacons are still in full-time employment in the secular world and exercise their ministry on a part-time basis.

Currently, every parish in the Archdiocese of Armagh has at least one priest assigned to it.

Another initiative in the diocese has been the establishment in 2012 of a seminary, based in Dundalk, Co Louth — The Redemptoris Mater Archdiocesan Missionary Seminary.

The 17 seminarians who study there come from Neocatechumenal Way communities throughout the world and will be ordained as priests of the Archdiocese of Armagh.

To date a Polish man from the Redemptoris Mater Seminary has been ordained a priest for the Archdiocese of Armagh and is serving in a parish in the archdiocese.
Caroline Hicks, diocesan office, said while there have been cutbacks, no parish is without a priest.

“Although some parishes in this diocese have had to reorganise and reduce the number of weekday and Sunday Masses, there haven’t been significant reductions. No parish within the diocese is without a resident priest.

“Priests fulfil a vital ministry within the Church. There is a need, therefore, for vocations to the priesthood to be maintained. To this end the Diocesan Vocations Commission has been active in promoting calls to the priesthood.

“One notable change we have noticed in parishes over the past five years has been 

“There has also been an increase in the age profile of priests in the last five years. The introduction of the Redemptoris Mater Seminary into the diocese, with currently 17 seminarians, will, please God, bear fruit over the next number of years. There are also three students studying for the priesthood, for this diocese, in seminaries in Maynooth and Rome,” she said.

Almost all of the 61 parishes have an active parish pastoral council, made up of both clergy and lay people; many of which are also chaired by lay people.
“Over the last ten years there has been a huge uptake by laity to support their clergy in significant roles within the archdiocese. It has become common practice for all parishes to have trained ministers of the Word and ministers of the Eucharist.”

DOWN AND CONNOR:

87 parishes
108 priests — down seven in last five years
6 ordinations in last five years
16 deceased priests in last five years
45 retired priests in the area


Fr Eddie McGee, Diocese of Down and Connor, said 83 out of 87 parishes currently have at least one priest in attendance. Three parishes are administered by religious orders. Parish priests in seven parishes also serve as parish priests in seven other adjoining parishes. Over the five-year period, one parish has had long-term assistance from a priest from Australia.

“We have had a number of priests temporarily assisting in the diocese from a number of countries across Europe and further afield. We have also had a number of religious priests who have retired into the diocese and who assist parishes at times.

“Over the past five years, we have two priests from India, two priests from Poland, one priest from Australia and one priest from Uganda assisting in full time ministry.
“While there have been some changes to times of Masses, all pastoral needs of parishioners continue to be met.


ARDAGH AND CLON MACNOISE

41 parishes
55 priests
In the last five years, 7 priests have left active service: 2 priests in active ministry died, 4 have retired and 1 priest from a missionary order has returned to work for his order.
Seven new entrants; 2 are newly ordained for the diocese, 2 are from abroad, 2 from a missionary order and 1 diocesan priest has returned from mission work.
The permanent diaconate has been launched in this diocese although there are currently no people in receipt of training.
A training programme for parish catechists commenced in September 2017 with over 30 participants.

Four parishes have reduced the number of Masses. Weddings do not take place on Sundays; this has been the case for quite a while. In this same pastoral area, a Sunday evening Mass has been introduced.

DROMORE

22 parishes
25 priests
8 priests left active service in the last five years
2 newly qualified priests in the same period
5 Permanent Deacons and three more in training.
The restructuring of Mass schedules has been under review over the past 10 years

DERRY

51 parishes
76 priests
Nine priests have left ministry in the past five years.
Eight new priests have entered ministry in the Diocese in the same period — and includes seven ordinations for the diocese.
There have been no changes with regard to parish configuration over the past decade and “nothing significant” with regard to any alterations to Mass schedules or carrying out services such as weddings and baptisms.

KILMORE

34 Parishes
72 priests — 45 are below retirement age (75), 12 are aged above 75 years and remain working in parish ministry. 15 priests have retired fully from parish ministry.
8 priests retired in the past five years

Zero ordinations


CLOGHER

37 parishes
63 priests and 1 deacon presently serving in the diocese.

14 priests have died since 2013; one has retired from ministry, one has been granted leave to minister in the USA and one has been granted leave of absence.
Since 2013, four new priests have been ordained and another is due for ordination next July. Another priest has come to work in the diocese on a temporary basis during that period. A permanent deacon will be ordained in June 2018.


RAPHOE

No details supplied

MEATH

69 parishes
125 priests (15 retired).
In the past five years, 18 priests died; of this number, seven were in active ministry. Seven priests were ordained in the same period, with eight foreign priests joining the diocese from abroad. These priests come from Romania, India, Pakistan, Nigeria and Uganda. Three are engaged in full-time post graduate studies in Maynooth (which is near to this diocese) while five are full-time ministering in parishes.

Fr Paul Crosbie said there has been no considerable changes in general to provision of Masses, sacraments or pastoral services over the past five years.

“There has been a long-standing prohibition on Sunday weddings that dates back many years.

“Specifically, there are four circumstances where two neighbouring parishes are now served by one parish priest; these are situations where there were two small rural parishes now being served by one PP rather than two separate PPs.


TUAM

55 parishes
65 priests currently serving.

In the past five years six priests retired. One new priest ordained, four others have come from elsewhere to serve in the archdiocese.

Some parishes have had changes in the number of priests ministering there, or in some cases where there was one priest previously, now the neighbouring Parish Priest has taken charge of the second parish too.


ELPHIN

37 parishes
62 priests
In the past thre
e years, three priests in active ministry have died and six have retired (Nine in total).

In the same period, seven priests have begun ministry in the diocese, mostly on temporary loan from overseas. None of the new arrivals are newly ordained. There are eight deacons in active service.

There has been a reduction in the number of Masses in some areas, corresponding not only to the availability of priests, but also to the decline in population in the West.

ACHONRY

No details supplied

CLONFERT

24 parishes
33 priests in active ministry. Seven retired priests — of these, four are available to supply in parishes when needed.

In the past five years four priests have retired at 75. There have been no departures from ministry and three priests began ministry in Clonfert in that period — none of these was newly ordained.

There is at present no parish without a resident priest.

There have been no changes in services available in the last five years. Sunday weddings are not allowed for the past 15 years or thereabouts, but this decision was not related to decline in numbers. Pastoral councils are active in many parishes and performing some administrative duties in some parishes. Three town parishes have secretaries.
It is about 10 years since the last set of changes in the number of Masses. There was some rationalisation in 2009/2010 but not since then.

“Currently there are two priests from Jalingo Diocese, Nigeria ministering in Clonfert. We hope to have a third Jalingo priest in September.”

GALWAY

39 parishes
40 priests plus 8 non-diocesan (order) priests in fulltime ministry

10 priest departures in last five years (7 retired, one moved, one on leave)

7 new priests (4 ordinations, 3 returnees)


KILLALA

22 parishes
30 priests

Six priests have retired since 2013. One priest came on loan to the diocese. One priest was ordained.

No parish is without a full-time priest. To date, no changes have been made regarding scheduling of certain services such as baptisms or weddings and minor changes have been made to the Mass schedule in the parishes, with reduced weekend Masses in one parish. Due to the provision of some new nursing homes, cover has increased slightly for those facilities.


CASHEL AND EMLY

46 parishes
79 priests
9 priest departures in past five years (6 deaths, one retirement, 2 left ministry)
2 new priests (ordinations) in same period
No changes noted to the hosting of to weddings, baptisms etc.
Very Rev Nicholas J Irwin, diocesan secretary, said: “In some parishes there has been a decrease in weekend Masses. Some parishes had to adapt to fewer priests serving in the parish. Currently, we are assessing parish needs and formulating a pastoral plan for the diocese; this will take some months to complete as we consult the parishioners in each parish by way of a Listening Process.”
“With fewer priests, more focus will inevitably fall on the role of the lay people in any parish — especially as they involve themselves more in administrative activity.”

Cork and Ross

67 parishes
91 priests in full-time parish ministry (not all are diocesan priests)
21 priests in chaplaincy, administration and education
21 retired priests (all diocesan)

In the last three years, four new priests ordained along with two deacons. Three priests have retired and one priest in ministry died.


ClOYNE

46 parishes
120 priests — 90 full time, 20 retired but in part-time ministry and 10 fully retired from active ministry.

In the last five years six priests have retired. Two have been ordained. Six permanent deacons were ordained last September and have been appointed to parishes to assist. Many lay people involved in various apostolates.

Some parishes have reduced Masses and changed Mass times. Parish pastoral councils have been set up in many parishes to assist the priest.

Fr Jim Moore said: “We have a good number of priests in the 55-75 age bracket. Some reduction or consolidation will be needed over the next ten years but no dramatic reduction in service is anticipated.”

KILLALOE

58 parishes
99 priests — 

four serve outside the diocese in various ministries, 66 are in active ministry in parishes and the remainder are retired. There are 137 churches in these 58 parishes and in the past each of these church areas was a Christian community in its own right.
Since 2013, there has been one ordination and two priests have come from India. Two priests have left ministry in that time and 7 have died.

KERRY

53 parishes
54 priests in parish ministry, this includes four non-diocesan clergy and two Assistant Priests

There are six diocesan priests under 50

In the last three years, seven priests have left active ministry — four have retired, two have died and one has left. There have been no new priests. Six parishes are without a resident priest.


LIMERICK

60 parishes
65 priests in active ministry, but with 27 priests due to retire within the next 10 years.
17 priests have left ministry in the diocese in the last five years.

There are currently two students in Rome who are in their second year of formation. 

Priestly formation can take anything from six years upwards.

The last priest to be ordained was four years ago.


WATERFORD 

45 parishes
66 priests

Nine priests have left active service in the past five years and seven have entered the priesthood in the area over the same period, including one newly ordained priest.

No changes in relation to baptisms or marriages.

DUBLIN

247 diocesan priests
166 religious priests
22 Permanent Deacons.

97 priests have retired
There are also 25 Parish Pastoral workers with appointments – these are full-time positions held by 17 women and eight men, who work in parishes and in Youth Evangelisation.

A spokesperson for the archdiocese said many parishes have reduced the number of masses.
The archdiocese referred to recent speeches made by Archbishop Martin, including last November when he remarked on how 15 priests had died in the past year in the area, while two new priests were ordained for the diocese of Dublin. In that speech, looking ahead to 2030, he said: “If religious orders were to relinquish the parishes they currently serve, due to the age profile of their own priests, the drop by 2030 would be 70 percent leaving just 111 priests carrying out parish ministry across Dublin’s 199 parishes. Fifty-seven percent of the current priests serving in Dublin are over 60 years of age and this is projected to increase to 75% by 2030 and the findings predict that just one new priest under the age of 40 will join the priesthood in Dublin every year up to 2030.”

FERNS

No detail supplied

OSSORY

42 parishes
53 priests

In the past years, three priests have retired from ministry in Ossory and one priest has been ordained for service in the diocese.
There is one parish without a resident priest — cared for by a neighbouring priest who has been appointed to this role alongside his duties, and another which is cared for by a priest from a neighbouring parish in a similar fashion — although this parish has also a resident retired priest.
The diocese has no plans overseas priests working in parishes and, as of now, no plans to begin this practise.
The diocese has parishes that have introduced changes with regard to its services such as adjusting Mass times. No changes to the days on which weddings and funerals are celebrated.
Some parishes there have been changes in mass times. The diocese has also employed a coordinator for our diocesan pastoral plan which has been worked on in recent years as a means of prioritising the areas on which we will focus in the years ahead to better serve people in the diocese.

KILDARE AND LEIGHLIN

56 parishes
90 priests in parish ministry

In the last three years two priests have retired, one priest has been ordained and two priests come to minister in the Diocese from the Diocese of Iasi in Romania.





PAT SAYS:

I think all this information speaks for itself.

We can blame secularization etc for the decline.

But I think that the RC hierarchy and clergy has brought about most of this decline.

Wherever people are oppressed  they will eventually rise up!


83 comments:

  1. How many parishes does the archdiocese of Dublin have????

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  2. I think all this information is just boring statistical clap trap. Wake me up when this blog is actually worth reading. A long list of shite followed by a few words of even more shite in what Pat Says. Losing the will to live after reading that lot.

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  3. What wonderful statistics!

    Until every one of these sponging, parasitical priest pimps is gone from Ireland, I shall not be satisfied.

    These human ticks have done enough damage to the Body of Christ.

    Away with these Luciferean bastardos, and their pretend church!

    Just sayin', like.😆

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 00.03: Magna, more drink fuelled ignorant, offensive, racist and hate filled words. What a sordid, putrid mind you have when drunk. You are "intrinsically disordered" - emotionally, morally and spiritually. Seek help.

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    2. Not ever - no nay never - will you ever be “satisfied” - “bastardo” Carta. All and every being “satisfied” is going to eternally elude you, you sad old fool. You’re a contrary, braying old ass. Knackers yard for you soon enough with your liver. LOL.

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  4. It's hard to say... It certainly would be true that "oppressed" people would eventually rise up but I sometimes wonder if it is not more the very opposite situation! - - - that is a slackening off of good strong leadership and guidance, an acceptance of rule-breaking and a growing ethos of anything goes. From Vatican 11 onwards there was definitely a subtle but growing release from the strict disciplines that the older parishioners had grown up to expect and accept. This watering down continued during the next few decades and pervaded every aspect of Catholic life from the family routines,where the practice of daily Rosary was dropped to make time for Eastenders or the BBC News, to the classroom where new less stringent religious education syllabus and methods became the norm and those of us who tried to continue to teach the more thorough one were were roundly denounced by the Diocesan Advisors(religious examiners)! Over a long period of time the attitudes that a person continually read in the papers and see in the media and on debates etc become part of the fabric of what he believes almost without him realising that he is absorbing them. Such is the power of the media to "educate" as it entertains! If the person is not having that counterbalanced by good sermons at Church and good literature from a Christian point of view, then it is no wonder that his moral compass shifts. Even for those of us who attend Mass every Sunday without fail, there are rarely any inspiring and good homilies unequivocal and rich in content. There is frequently a lack of structure and no careful preparation. I sometimes think what we really need is less airy-fairy waffle and right back to old fashioned no - nonsense basics.
    I don't see much sign of too many people being "oppressed" ... As I see it, it's the very opposite with each new generation having less knowledge of their Faith than the previous one and no idea where the boundaries lie . That is my honest opinion .

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    1. Hi @ 00.54.
      I would have to say that I think you have got it spot on .
      Other Churches have recruitment and attendance problems too with the odd evangelical surge in fashion from time to time when they rev people up with a few well-aimed "Hell's fire for all eternity" scare tactic crusades! This is then followed by a slump when they go back to their version of normal. It's what's happening all over, guys.

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    2. 11:48, you think that 00:54 has 'got it spot on'?!😅

      He couldn't be wider off the mark. He, and his lagubrious kind (with their moral legalism and their religion drummed into unconsenting children) drove those children as adults into open rebellion.

      You idiots still can't and won't admit where you all went wrong.

      'A slackening off of good strong leadership and guidance'? From whom? Roman Catholic clerics? They couldn't reliably guide anyone from a cul-de-sac, moral or otherwise. As for bishops, 😅.

      'An acceptance of rule-breaking'? Yes, YOUR rules, imposed on unconsenting others. This is the kind of moral 'colonisation' (to use one of Pope Francis' favoured words...when he's completely clueless and not averse to making a global spectacle of himself) that drives people away, because, in general, people like to be consulted and not ordered by control-freaks like you.

      'A subtle release from the strict disciplines that older people had grown up with' pre-Vatican II? (I wondered when you'd raise that hoary old chestnut, Vatican II.)

      Strict disciplines? Would that include beating seven shades out of young children for not complying with YOUR strict disciplines and YOUR rules?

      Would it include forcing heavily pregnant young women into Magdalen prisons and treating them like the seven shades you'd just knocked out of the kids? Would it include forcibly separating them from their children...for ever? Would it include shaving their heads and beating them black and blue for not conforming to YOUR moral code?

      You, and your kind, really make me want to throw up.

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    3. More long winded projectile verbal diarrhoea from this moronic TROLL.

      Delete
    4. Ha ha! Good one @ 14.25 another beautifully "spot on" succinct poster par excellence!! Well said sir/madam!

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    5. 14:25 clichéd response.

      Try forming a counter-argument in future,😆

      Delete
  5. Cork & Ross; 21 priests in chaplaincy, admin and education... what is being hidden in such a grouping??

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  6. Kerry...1 priest left active ministry. So Donal couldnt hack a parish, but he also ejected a good number of much needed seminarians, who were quite good I might add.

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  7. These figures are available to make all of us realise the reality of our Dioceses. The decline has been happening for decades. Each Diocese is trying to readjust, with great difficulty and challenge. I accept the huge change and see it as a great challenge to redefine ministry, Christian community, priesthood, service by all, forming smaller, more genuine, gospel based parishes. The reality of numbers given above is indicative of poor, unimaginate leadership, though there are good individual bishops, but we must also bear in mind the impact of more recent decades of huge social, cultural, educational and political changes in our country which challenged the dominance of the Church in society. Also, the horrendous shadow of the abuse scandals remain in the consciousness of all of us and this continues to be a factor in people's loss of faith and trust. Personally, I believe the sooner we are out of schools and hospitals, the better it will be to allow us focus more urgently on being the Community of God's people gathered around the Eucharistic Christ, albeit smaller but more true to what are called to be. Like the small mustard seed Jesus speaks about in today's gospel - it may be the smallest seed but it grows into a bush where the birds of the heaven can come and find shelter in the shade. A very apt image for all concerned about reimagining the Church. It is possible because of God's gracious love. I won't give up in the vineyard given to me to care for. Small effort which may appear insignificant can achieve good fruits, in God's time.

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  8. Still slightly more priests to parish ratio, unlike the Church in Scotland. Three years ago, Leo “Leonora” Cushley of St Andrews and Edinburgh said, by 2020 the diocese would only have 33 priests with an average age of 80 ministering to 103 parishes. Presumably, the average age has since risen to 83! Vocations all but stalled apart from a few kicking their legs their height at Royal Salamanca.

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  9. Magna Carta's Mum17 June 2018 at 10:09

    Magna darling, I'm a bit worried your bed hasn't been slept in. Did something happen at the vet's? I've never liked him although his father was so kind when you were a baby and used to give me ketamine to put in your milk.

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    Replies
    1. Sorry, Ma. Bishop Pat was too timid to publish my first reply.

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  10. Interesting read Pat. Businesses rise and fall down to incumbent management, the Church will be no different and rebuild from the ashes.
    Faith in whatever form will always live.

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  11. 10.09: You are becoming tedious and tiresome in your rather silly humour. Your views are irrelevant and have nothing to do with the topic of conversation. Pat, the decline will continue for multifaceted reasons. It will force the Church leadership to act in a more honest, realistic way, slowly but hopefully in a creative way. Schools and hospitals should be transferred to the proper agencies of the state. This would bring the true Church which Jesus meant it to be centre stage where the marginalised, the broken, the homeless, immigrants, the suffering and sick are embraced and outreach programmes of justice and compassion for the weak, the fragile and marginalised groups are paramount. We may only have a remnant but with wisdom, trust in God, a lived faith, prayer and the Eucharist, our parish communities should/could be "a light" of God's love for all to witness. That's the vision I presently have in my approach but not always with the success I desire.

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  12. https://rustymadra.wordpress.com

    A blog article there about Clonard Novena. Incidently it’s packed out the doors every session, going against the trend of decline.

    I wonder if it’s because the Novena organisers are in touch with the People?

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    1. Or could it be because of rank superstition and desperate people trying to demand what they want from the almighty?

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    2. Many of us attend Clonard to give thanks (which of course poster @ 14.52 didn't mention, possibly because the thought never occurred to him /her)

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  13. 10.09: What exactly are you trying to prove? That you have a sense of humour or that you are as thick as a plank? The latter would seem to be the answer. Get off the stage.

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    Replies
    1. 10:38 and 10:39
      Isn't the answer to your ridiculous question obvious? Idiots.

      Delete
  14. Interesting blog Pat but sadly it's all based on official statistics from diocesan offices. The reality on the ground is quite different however. For example, one diocese mentioned that it has just over 60 priests in active ministry. However, about 20 of those are over 75 with some in their late eighties. They won't retire and as a result, younger men are not allowed to run parishes. Several 75 year olds have actually said that there is no way that they will step down regardless of what the leadership says. The Irish Church is full of selfish priests who want to exercise power and control (and money) at all costs.

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  15. Fear not, there is another way. The churches will be recycled as Mosques in time. It is a gradual transition.

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    Replies
    1. Allahu Akbar

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    2. Voilà, snack bar... yes a purple one to dunk in my tea please.

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  16. So we are "full of selfish priests" - who don't want to leave their posts, is that it?
    But two minutes ago we were bemoaning the fact that every diocese was suffering "an acute shortage"!
    So make up your mind... It sounds to me very much like a damned if they do--damned if they don't situation..

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  17. 11.29. My priest brother told me a few years ago that there was an unofficial policy in Scotland that if a Catholic Church was closed or fell into disuse that they would be knocked down first rather than be sold to Muslims for a mosque. Do any Scottish readers know if this is so?

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    Replies
    1. That’s the correct approach. I wouldn’t like them sold off. Demolish them. Flatten the land and then sell it to someone other than a Moslem.

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    2. Ridiculous notion @ 11.59!

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    3. Inďeed, it's not like we are all brother worshipers of the Hebrew God.

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    4. @22:30 'brother worshippers'? No we are definitely not. One of the 99 titles of Allah is 'the deceiver' who, according to the Koran, gives permission to Muslims to lie for their cause and to rape, enslave and kill non-Muslims and so we see the rape gangs of Muslims abusing young girls in the UK. They worship Satan.

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  18. Pray for Archbishop Leo

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  19. The "Permanent Deacon" seems to be the Roman Catholic church's answer to the decline in the numbers of priests.

    The permanent deacon can deliver a lot of pastoral help that a priest would have normally done in the past.

    Perform baptisms, visit the sick, give communion to the sick, lead Eucharistic adoration and give benediction, can celebrate the wedding service and funeral service (without the Eucharist being held) etc.

    In a parish I know well in Windsor, Berkshire, there is one parish priest and one permanent deacon, both do a fantastic job, with the permanent deacon celebrating "Service of the Word with distribution of Communion" on the days Mass can not be celebrated. He has been a great help to the parish priest, and it seems the Irish Catholic Church has just thought of the idea.

    There will be the obvious reduction in masses, confessions etc. But as long as parishes have at least one resident priest, many will be happy.

    However, we can not see a change in the decline. It seems to be terminal and it will mean the permanent deacon will have to do more, and they will bring in priests from around the world.

    Does anyone have any recommendations on what they should be doing? It is very easy to sneer and cheer the decline, but for anyone who does care about their church, is there any real recommendations on how to try and stop the decline? I have my views, I wonder what people on here think?

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    1. Ask many PP’s in England and they will tell you Permanent Deacons are a total pain in the arse. They are clerical, insist on wearing the Collar at everything and some Bishops have stopped them doing this. They love being addressed as Father because people get confused easily, they try to dictate to the Priest on everything particularly liturgy. One Permanent Deacons wife ran off with a Priest and a few parishes ended up getting rid of their Permanent Deacons because they were a hindrance rather than a help. Some English Dioceses have had a conveyor belt approach to Permanent Deacons that there are more of them running around than Priests themselves. They hog the altar and sanctuary at big Diocesan events that they have to be prised from their position and they elbow concelebrating priests out of the way. Permanent Deacons can be a disaster and it is not the answer or way forward. What might work in such a liberal place like Portsmouth Diocese @13.27 is not the solution elsewhere - certainly not in Ireland. We don’t need anymore clericalist exclusive groups like Permanent Deacons.

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    2. I agree with 14:22. At a recent deanery Mass I attended in the Diocese of Nottingham, the two Permanent Deacons present went out of their way to make everyone else's experience an unpleasant competition. They persistently shoved the older priests to one side when on the sanctuary, tried to block the altar servers from performing their tasks such as collecting the gifts during the offertory, and both insisted on being positioned at the very centre of the group during the consecration. Our own parish priest, who is nearing retirement, refuses to have them in our parish for this very reason. Their presence only complicates matters further, and places everyone else at unease.

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    3. I heard a permanent Deacon bullied his new PP so much that the PP had a nervous breakdown. Control and power go to their heads and they end up thinking they are the PP.

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    4. I thought the points raised earlier today by poster @ 00.54 were very pertinent and deserved consideration.

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    5. 14.22 has hit the nail on the head. A newly appointed Permanent Deacon in our parish has taken over the RCIA course, he has elbowed out the lay team who have led this for a few years. He is abrupt and lords it over people since his Ordination. He is a totally unsuitable character for this ministry and has upset many long established groups. He arrogantly tells people he acts with the authority of the Bishop and I think our PP is just too afraid to challenge him. If you are thinking about Permanent Deacons in Ireland don't touch them with a barge pole.

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    6. 18.50 It’s not just the Permanent Deacons you have to be worried about but the wives. They take on the persona of a Vicars wife and try to be better than all the other women in a parish. They demand special seats in Church at Mass or Diocesan liturgies and expect sections of the Church to be reserved only for them. I remember one wife who was a real tartar who took over the readers rota and made sure her name was on the list for all special occasions. Some Bishops wine and dine the Permanent Deacons a few times a year and yes, the wives insist on going along too. They see it as an exclusive Club almost and it’s wrong. Some parishes it’s the Deacons wives who rule the roost not the husbands.

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    7. Bishop McDaid ordained a Permanent Deacon in Enniskillen today I believe.

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    8. It must be tough for some priests who have permanent deacons in their parish. The deacons can marry, have families etc, and most Roman Catholic priests can not marry and have to be celibate (that is the rule, not necessary followed by most in that church).

      It must also be hard for Roman Catholic clergy who have ordinariate clergy there too for the same reasons.

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    9. 21.57 There is no issue with celibate Priests finding it difficult that Permanent Deacons are married because the clue is in the title ‘Permanent’. They can’t become Priests and if their wives die they can’t remarry. As for Ordinariate clergy not all of them are married.

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  20. Wallow in sin and proclaim the work of Satan. That is the message I get on today’s blog. Focus on the good news of Jesus and drop this aggression against the Universal Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

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    1. And let the Master of Mayhem rule unhindered? Because this is what the institutional 'Universal Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church' should very much love: to return to committing its evil (against children, against pray-pay-and-obey adults, and so much more) without the level of public scrutiny and accountability that has brought it to its demonic knees.

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    2. 13.28 There is truth in some of what you say except Roman does not on its own = Universal

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  21. The whole education for Priests must change. I know lots of single men who would make excellent Priests and could minister at weekends and in the evenings. Distance learning, small salary and no need for a church house or housekeeper as they are already self sufficient and professionals. I would suggest married Priests but that won’t happen lol

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    1. No gay sex at Seminary either and no scandals! Oh how boring ha ha. Pat’s blog would need to shut down

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    2. I believe the anglican church call such men 'non-stipendary vicars'. Other Orthodox catholic churchs also have this model for their married clergy, the family being maintained by the regular non-church income. In fact St Paul did this by tent making.

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  22. PADRE PIO PLEASE PRAY FOR US. I AM A WIDOWER AND DO FOLLOW YOUR PAGE OFTEN AS I SUFFER THE LOSS OF MY HUSBAND GREATLY, PLEASE PRAY FOR ME FR BUCKLEY.
    I ATTENDED MY DEAR HUSBANDS BLESSING OF THE GRAVES RECENTLY AND ONLY FOUND OUT WHAT ALL THIS JAMES MC CONNELL SAGA WAS ALL ABOUT AND MY GOODNESS IT DISTURBED ME GREATLY WHEN I WENT HOME AND READ HIS FACEBOOK PAGE. THE INSULTING POSTS ABOUT HIS FAMILY AND PRIEST WHOM I WOULD KNOW HURT ME AND MADE ME TURN TO MY NOVENAS WHICH I PRAY DAILY. HE NEEDS HELP AND PRAYERS. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND PRIEST'S HAVE BEEN VERY CARING TO ME THESE LAST FEW YEARS ESPECIALLY AT THE TIME OF MY HUSBANDS DEATH. I DONT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THEY DO BUT MY GOD THEY DID HELP ME IN MY TIME OF NEED.
    PLEASE DON'T INSULT ME AFTER THIS POST AND PLEASE PRAY FOR ME AND THE FAMILIES THAT OUR HURTING WITH THIS AWFUL ISSUE. I HAVE PRAYED HARD FOR THIS YOUNG MAN AND HOPE THAT HE REALISES THAT LIFE IS WAY TOO SHORT TO HAVE ENEMIES, ESPECIALLY WITHIN FAMILY, PEACE PERFECT PEACE. I DON'T HAVE ONE ENEMY IN LIFE AND HOPE IT STAYS LIKE THAT FOR MY LAST FEW YEARS.
    IM PRAYING NOW FOR YOU FR BUCKLEY AND ALL PRIEST'S IN THIS DIVIDED WORLD.
    MY FIRST TIME TO POST AND I FEEL NERVOUS ABOUT DOING IT.

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    Replies
    1. God bless you 1440 and keep the prayers going. Remember that Priests are just men and you are praying and are answerable to Almighty God.

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    2. Very simple way for you to deal with this @14.40. Just don't read the Facebook Page you refer to - Easy!

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    3. Just so you know, electronic communication in all capitals is considered shouting.

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  23. Why did you write your complete post on capital letters? That is the blog equivalent of SHOUTING at everyone!
    Secondly, you say you're "nervous" but if you choose this particular blog to unburden yourself, why would you expect some special immunity from adverse responses? A bit naive, don't you think?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yip - - afraid so! After all everybody else has to stand the heat of the kitchen or get out ..

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  24. It was a great success, that Vatican II. Wasn't it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, it sure was a success, so they said... Vatican Councils take years in the planning... Jason C.

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    2. Look at oir current retiring bishops such as Smith who Vatican 2 promoted early in life. One generation later and the church is on it's knees due to the lack of vision.

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  25. Tolls ringing loud in Clonard. Might be a bumper year for sales bucking the national spending trends

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  26. 15.50 and 15.11 - What mean spirited responses to 14.40! If you read her comments properly you'd appreciate her dilemma. It's not your condescending lecturing she needs but support, kindness and understanding - all of which seem beyond your petty minds. I'd advise 14.40 to stay away from this blog as she will be subjected to abuse as in the two comments referred to. Whoever you are at 14.40, seek comfort elsewhere, not here and keep praying. God bless you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No condescending lecturing at all, what the original poster does need is to be in front of online etiquette which she does not understand. She has broken the social norms of the internet by posting in all capital letters. That said this blog is a strange place to post if you are overly delicate!

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    2. 20.04: Hard to believe that you could be so condescending. The lady in question may not be computer literate but her comments are valid and deserve a kinder response that what she's receiving.

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    3. Smart Asses the lot. 14.40 God help her, seems to be so sincere and genuine to all side's. Not one bad word.
      To many bad friggers on here and that includes that smartie boy McConnell. Your right 14.40 his fb page is rotten.
      He's putting things up as if he's a republican but if thats the way genuine republicans behave by bulling and harassing people by means of social media then my late husband's ideals are lost to the wind. He'd be turning in his grave for the years he give to Sinn Fèin as an election worker through the many dark years off the troubles.
      Good Republicans don't do bullying of this kind.

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    4. Well you better believe it because she's going around shouting at people.

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    5. What do you mean "her" and "kinder response than she's receiving"??
      Was that original new poster not a man?
      He did say he was a "widower".

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  27. Ha ha! Very good .. Gotcha!

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  28. Has Maynooth gone quiet today? Nothing going down in Scottish or English Dioceses? Quiet news day!
    I see the Cathedral Dean from Glasgow has quit. Lovely man I am told but has a teenage child that the Church knew about apparently. I am sure I read on this blog that several have been refused absolution at that Cathedral. Double standards again.

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    Replies
    1. He has been away for months well out of date and the Archbishop has brought the Vice Rector of Scots College Rome in as Dean and made him a cannon even although he is not even 40 yet.

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  29. Plenty of Scottish news. Fr gerry Nugent ,decd, back in the papers again. All historical allegations of rape. This is the man who was having sex with the polish girl who was murdered by Peter tobin in his church and put beneath the floor. Shocking. Yet when he died he got the full boona priests funeral. 100 priests and old Duchess Conte in attendance.

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    Replies
    1. That foul old hag, McKeever, warned them as often too about St Patrick's.

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  30. Should there be a blog call News of the Chworld. Keep the gossip there. The image of the church I have is that of an empty articulated truck. All bright and shiny but no cargo. Many know about church but do they know what it is for.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's not just the Catholic Church. The Anglican Church is on its arse. I remember having to officiate at Sunday services with only 6 in the congregation. I felt I was in a huge parish that had 100 in the congregation.

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  31. Just a point of correction for poster at 20:56 above. Yes, a deacon was ordained in Enniskillen today but by Bishop Alan Mc Guckian from Raphoe. We have two retired bishops in Clogher but no active one. The ceremony went well but it' s a farce. The clergy of Clogher made it clear to Bishop Mc Daid several years ago that we were not interested in having permanent deacons. However, the PP of Enniskillen badgered and even bullied Mc Daid into taking on the guy who was ordained today. He has been ordained solely to work in Enniskillen, which immediately creates problem.....in other words, he will refuse to work wherever the bishop might ask him to go. Peter O' Reilly thinks he's the bishop......indeed he's actively courting guys in order to get the job.

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    1. The new deacon's wife was sitting as bold as brass in the front row and two Anglican bishops sat in choir in the sanctuary (why?) alongside Bishop McDaid.

      Permanent deacons are a waste of time. No young man grew up thinking "I want to be a permanent deacon". It's sheer clericalism to upgrade middle-aged male lay busybodies. Their preaching is woeful, they are never out of the collar and they displace people.

      In my parish in Brighton the new elderly PD got a new lease of life and took over everything.

      At the Chrism Mass in Northampton Cathedral there are more PDs than PPs and they fill the centre of the santuary. Peter Doyle of Northamptom has also approved PDs of the antique disposition, as if the clergy didn't have enough of them already.

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  32. Press conference in Mullingar Cathedral a.m. seems a new Bishop about to be announced. Any ideas?

    ReplyDelete
  33. There will be announcement of a new bishop in Meath on Monday.

    Thomas Denihan is tipped.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If Meath want him they can have him. Cork would certainly be better off without him. He may find the commute difficult considering his personal house is in Bantry but I suppose he might sell up and leave altogether.

      ...sounds like we need to pray for the faithful in Meath.

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  34. "I am Francis - What would say Francis say ?"

    I am Francis the conscience of the church .
    I am the constant call to return to the purity and simplicity of the Gospels .
    I am the call that will never go away however much you wish it to for the Church to be rebuilt .
    I am the one who walks with those outside the city walls .

    When you sit in wealth , and only go where the crowds are to receive their praise .
    When you neglect the poor , simple ones, refusing your blessings.
    I am Francis the conscience of the church .
    I am here to remind you what you of the words of Christ ," What you did to the least of them you did it to me ."

    When you condemn those as being unacceptable to God .
    Say they can not enter your walls .
    I am Francis the conscience of the church .
    I am here to remind you of the lesson of Christ that you can die outside the walls of Jerusalem , but never outside of Gods embrace .
    A thief who died outside the walls of the Heavenly Jerusalem was told that day He would be in paradise .

    When you see those you turn away from in disgust .
    When you want to walk by on the other side .
    I am Francis the conscience of the church .
    I walk forward and embrace them , and see their inner beauty admitting real the real leaper is not the person in front of me , but the one inside me .

    When the problems come and questions you sit silently refusing to answer .
    When the mentality comes of closing ranks , never admitting the truth , slandering your brother rather than address issues .
    I am Francis the conscience of the church .
    I remind you " Rebuild my church ."

    When you destroy the beautiful creation around you .
    When you fail to to care for the environment putting money above this beauty .
    I am Francis the conscience of the church .
    I remind you all creation is the cathedral of God.

    When the sick and dying are in your midst .
    I am Francis the conscience of the church here to remind you here is the real treasure of the church in your midst .
    They are the ones closest to Christ for as I did they carry His wounds in their body .
    I am here to tell you there is dignity in suffering , and a way to God .

    When you look at all you own and desire more wealth .
    When you write your shopping list of all the possessions you require for a perfect life refusing to share what you have with your bothers and sisters who have nothing .
    I am Francis the conscience of the church .
    I am here to remind you " Poverty my only riches ," and invite you to a greater simplicity . - Father Richard

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    1. That was extremely boring.

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    2. As a Franciscan I found this inspirational and in my opinion
      truly expressing what the message of Saint Francis
      would be at this present moment ....

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  35. Mr McConnell would need a crash course in PR. The way in which he speaks to women is shocking and nothing short of rude!
    Basic manners wins PR points.

    ReplyDelete