Wednesday 19 September 2018

DID THIS BLOG DO FATHER RONAN DRURY AN INJUSTICE?


DID THIS BLOG AND ITS COMMENT MAKERS DO FATHER RONAN DRURY RIP AN INJUSTICE THIS WEEK?

That point of view has certainly been expressed by several people.

A friend of Father Drury's wrote the following to me in an email:


"Bishop Pat, 

Fr Ronan Drury was a lifelong family friend, neighbour and a fairly constant presence in my life. My late mother would routinely dictate letters for me to write to Fr Ronan in Maynooth. 

He was the first positive religious role model in my life, and it is he whom I often thank for the gift of faith. He certainly encouraged that gift. 

 I have been completely and utterly shaken by what you have published on your blog in recent days. As far back as I can remember Ronan was a regular visitor to my family home and the home of my grandparents. He famously said Midnight mass on Christmas Eve for almost 70 years in his home parish, Mullagh County Cavan. He returned often to say funeral and wedding masses. Never in my life did I ever hear such allegations or innuendo about Fr Drury. He remains in the hearts and minds of his neighbors and friends as a kindhearted and genuine priest and man. 

I grew up believing and still believe, that Ronan Drury was a gentle, honest and dedicated servant of Christ. I have become seriously and greatly disturbed by your recent utterances. I thank God that Ronan has no immediate family left as I know it would greatly hurt them, as it has hurt me. You have warranted an attack against the most innocent and defenceless in our society, the dead. Is it more than a coincidence that you have decided to publish such allegations almost 12 months after Fr Drury was buried. 

I feel that you have gone too far and have labeled an innocent man as a dangerous predator whose sole focus was to molest and wreak havoc over his students. 

I implore you to publish facts, evidence and proof of Fr Drury’s misdemeanors rather than idle gossip and conjecture. 

You ought to be aware that to us Ronan was a friend as well as a much loved and respected priest. 

Yours in Christ."

Father Clat


Dear Pat Buckley.
 
As someone who knew the late Fr.Ronan Drury as a teacher, mentor and friend for almost forty years I want to refute utterly the cruel and untruthful depiction of his character you have chosen to print on your blog today. His kindness and generosity towards his friends and generations of students was never tainted by any ‘predatory’ motivation or behavior. The truth of that can be found in the real love and affection he inspired in so many of his former students over his long lifetime and came from his never failing good humor and his frequent words of encouragement and compassion. He was never afraid to challenge the status quo and was often a lone voice in Irish Catholicism in publishing the views of those who distorted Gospel values within the church – no matter how elevated their status. I suspect this is where the roots of complaint against him really originate among those for whom the Gospel is simply an instrument of judgement and exclusion and whose hate-filled agenda disguised as piety is ever more to the fore today. He never uttered an uncouth or nasty comment about anyone in all the time I spent in his company and is completely undeserving of the assassination of his character by those who never knew him. As someone who claims to have the same mission of truth at heart Pat I hope you will discontinue these hurtful and spurious attacks.
Paul Clayton-Lea


There are various things that emerge:

1.   Father Ronan Drury was loved and respected by many people, clerical and lay and they say he was a wonderful man and did a great deal of good.

2.   It seems pretty clear to me that Ronan was of the “antique disposition” (gay) and that is neither a sin or a crime.

3.   He obviously was a character over many decades in Maynooth and many, to this day, remember him and recall his actions and words.


4.   It seems pretty clear that he liked to touch people in an “affectionate” manner and this is not an issue when and if one has the permission of another to do so.

5.   Some people have said that this touching was of a sexual or sensual nature and they objected to it.


6.   One person talked of Ronan standing behind them during homiletics lecture, pressing himself into them and putting his arms around their chest from behind.  In todays society that would certainly, in the workplace and other places be viewed as invading boundaries and personal space and indeed as sexual harassment.

7.   While some people called him a “predator” can such a termed be used of a serial “toucher” or should that term be reserved to people who go further than touching?

8.   Nobody, to my understanding, has said that Ronan ever engaged in a sexual act with them or anybody else?

9.   Was Ronan’s alleged regular sexualised comments to seminarians appropriate?

This whole issue is probably being seen in the context of recent very promiscuous homosexual activity in Maynooth.
Is Ronan a completely different matter or do people feel that he contributed to the ever worsening situation in Maynooth?

In the end Ronan’s friends and admirers will love him in spite of all.

And anyone who feels that Ronan crossed boundaries with them personally is entitled to object.

134 comments:

  1. Pat

    It is very important to go back to the source of the allegation.

    FR. DAVID MARSDEN !!!


    In your opinion could it not be outside the realm of possibility that Fr. David Marsden had an agenda Re. Drury + Byrne?

    It would seem to me that Fr. Agenda Marsden equates homosexuality with a promiscuous lifestyle regardless of the facts. I would request that you look at Marsden’s agenda after nearly 3 years of silence.

    God Bless

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's very possible that what you say is true.

      But of course that does not excuse what has been and is going on in Maynooth.

      Is Father Marsden homophobic or is he just following the teachings of his church?

      Delete
  2. The ACP should sue David Marsden and make sure he never publicly says Mass or works as a ‘psychologist’ again!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The ACP should be excommunicated! Pseudo Catholics and whinging double dealers the lot of them.

      Delete
    2. Ronan, heretical old queen that he was, joined the ACP and let its members vent in the little-read Furrow, which is heavily subsidised by Maynooth.

      Delete
  3. Just an observation Pat

    I notice on this blog that you tend to see good people as bad and bad people as good. Men that you should support (gay guys) tend to be demonised all in the name of challenging the double lifestyle and hypocrisy. What if the double lifestyle helps change the Church’s attitude as people recognise it needs to be addressed ie removing the need for celibacy because no one really lives it?

    Also, you let your feelings on Maynooth cloud your judgment of Fr. Marsden because he was manipulating the narrative many years later. Why the silence for so long? It was only when he lost his job that he “spoke out”. That does not show a man of integrity. He was always a master manipulator in Maynooth and Oscott. He is so DANGEROUS!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think you change church teaching by encouraging seminarians and priests to behave like over sexed rabbits.

      Certainly Father Marsden is swimming against the current.

      Is the current destructive?

      Is Father Marsden genuine in his beliefs?

      Delete
    2. Best to err on the side of caution, Bp Pat. How we know Fr Marsden doesn't like the odd tits-and-a-hand-shandy at straight saunas... like Magna Carta.

      Delete
    3. Anon @ 18.38 - if Fr. Marsden did like that sort of thing, that would certainly make him a hypocrite.

      It does not mean that his claims are untrue, however. The truth is the truth whether it comes from a saint or a hypocrite.

      Delete
    4. Ah, but it's harder to believe, and easier to ignore, if it comes from a hypocrite.

      Who now takes Fr John Corapi seriously? His thing (his only thing) was obedience to the Magisterium of the Church. But, alas, when it came to obedience in his own life, he didn't set much example, now did he?

      Delete
    5. 'Celibacy...because NO-ONE really lives it..' How on earth do you know that? You don't know it, you can't know it. You are judging others, presumably by your own standards and weakness.

      Delete
  4. "You have warranted an attack against the most innocent and defenceless in our society, the dead."

    As far as I know, the dead tend not to participate in, or form part of, society, by virtue of the fact that they are...dead. Sure, a dead person cannot defend themselves. Nor, however, do they give their approval or assent when something is said in their favour, although no one seems to protest that little injustice that nature imposes on corpses. As for them being the "most innocent", they are innocent in death, in that they cannot commit a crime or a sin - but death does not render their entire lives innocent. Granted, proof and testimony should be provided if crimes were committed. In this case, however, one of the big questions being overlooked is, if Fr. Drury was guilty of "inappropriate behaviour" and this was known by the seminary authorities, what did they do to address the situation?

    The desire of that priest to speak a good word for a dear friend is understandable - noble, indeed. However, that particular sentence is rather over the top, IMHO.

    As for Fr. Clayton-Lea's comment that those who are accusing Fr. Drury are those with a "hate-filled agenda" for whom the "Gospel is simply an instrument of judgement" - he doesn't seem to have a problem launching a sweeping judgment himself though, does he?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suppose the relevant question is: Did Father Drury contribute to the current Maynooth crisis?

      Delete
    2. "Nor, however, do they give their approval or assent when something is said in their favour, although no one seems to protest that little injustice that nature imposes on corpses."

      Lol
      Lol
      Lol

      Interesting comment, 23.58. I like it, and I happen to agree. I also happen to believe that Fr. Marsden is genuine in his concerns about Maynooth.

      Delete
  5. Lavender Mafia shoot dead Fr Joseph Moreno in 2012 because he was about to blow the whistle on the homosexual network in the Buffalo diocese in the US.

    https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/special-report-murder-in-the-diocese-of-buffalo?mc_cid=99d30c7b90&mc_eid=ca72064e1e

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are a very brave man Pat in taking on the LM. Mafia is certainly the correct nickname for this gang.

      Delete
  6. Family of Fr Joseph Moreno says evidence shows that his death was not by suicide.

    https://www.wkbw.com/news/family-of-fr-joe-moreno-says-evidence-shows-that-death-wasnt-a-suicide

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No wonder Vigano headed for the hills after spilling the beans on the homosexual octopus strangling the church to death.

      Delete
  7. Pat, Why are these people corresponding with you? Surely you were only reporting something mentioned -by a former member of the seminary staff- on another website. On the one hand a former member of staff in Maynooth is saying one thing, and on the other hand, the son of someone's mammy is saying something entirely different.

    ReplyDelete
  8. As I said on that blog, Prof. Drury did not molest me in any way while I was at Maynooth.

    I was very good-looking, boyish, slim, fair-haired, fair-skinned, blue-eyed. And nothing of a sexual nature by Prof. Drury ever happened to me because of this. Not a sausage.

    Others 'tried it on' with me (one persistently); Prof. Drury never did.

    Nor did I ever, during my years at Maynooth, hear even the vaguest rumour that Prof. Drury was 'into' 'touching up' seminarians.

    Whether or not he was gay is immaterial and unimportant. What matters is his conduct. And I, personally, never found even the palest reason to question the moral propiety of it.

    May he rest in peace.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well MC, when I was in Maynooth for 7 years every other seminarian I knew had heard rumours about Ronan Drury. There is never any smoke without fire as far as I am concerned. Drury did not grope me but he did give me the creeps big time.

      Delete
    2. 07:46: 'There is no smoke without fire' is an old English proverb, not a piece of evidence against Prof. Drury; your using it to give credibility to mere rumour against the man is morally disgraceful.

      That Drury gave you 'the creeps big time' does not constitute evidence against him either, but seems to speak more of your lack of maturity (even to this day) than of anything else.

      Do you ordinarily decide a person's guilt or innocence on unsubstantiated rumour ('gossip') and personal feeling?

      If ever I have to face criminal trial, I pray God you won't be a juror for it.

      Delete
    3. I sincerely doubt that you were a seminarian in Maynooth MC. I am more inclined to think that you are somebody's alter ego.

      Delete
    4. Magna darling, are you really who you say you are? I don't recognize that description as my son at all!

      Delete
    5. Oh, and don't worry about your trial - mommy dearest has fingers in many pies!

      Delete
    6. Mommie Dearest, I'm not at all surprised you don't recognise me, since you don't recognise much else on coming round from one of your daily... (We shan't say what it is here, dearest. No point in publicly airing our mucky linen.)

      And dearest, don't eat those pies. They'll help feed me come that woeful day.

      Affectionately,

      Magsie-Wagsie 💋

      Delete
    7. As for you 13:59, enjoy your doubt.

      It's yours alone. 😆

      Delete
    8. If you were a seminarian MC, well, you were wrapped up in a little cocoon completely sequestered off from seminary life and conversation. Which would not surprise me as you seem to still inhabit your own little make believe world.

      Delete
    9. I know a defeated but stubborn ego when I see one, 18:24 ( aka 13:59 & 07:46).

      Take constructive criticism on the chin and learn from it, man.

      You were patently wrong to judge Prof. Drury on the basis of ubsubstantiated rumour and personal feeling ('gave me the creeps big time).

      Make an act of contrition and ask Fr Drury to forgive you, not only for unjust judgement, but for publicly making it.

      And if you are a priest, give yourself a double penance, and doubly resolve, through prayer and grace, to try to do better in future.

      Delete
    10. Magna was hot? STFU!

      Delete
  9. I'm happy to say that I never witnessed anything inappropriate in Fr Drury's actions. He was a rock in Maynooth - uncorrupted by those around him and balanced in his comments and sincere support of seminarians. RIP

    ReplyDelete
  10. Oh Pat remember " The measure you give is the measure you shall receive" (Luke 6:38)

    ReplyDelete
  11. Old kitty will be purring with delight at all this gushing praise. Here kitty kitty kitty.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What I said of Prof. Drury at 00:59 was not in praise of the man, much less gushingly so. It was simply a statement of truth about his conduct in relation to me.

      The fact that you would prefer not to hear any of this is telling.

      Delete
  12. Fr Marsden will have to name the priest who confided in him that he was molested by Drury. No doubt the Kittys will be out with sharpened claws today plunged into Fr Marsden. In my experience, Fr Marsden did his best to be faithful to the church and his conscience.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That is my view too.

      And Father Marsden and I are at opposite ends of the liberal / conservative scale.

      Are we sure Father Marsden is homophobic?

      Delete
    2. Fr Marsden is not homophobic Pat. He is faithful to the church unlike the hordes of subverters and liars who will bury him mercilessly today with their delusory comments.

      Delete
    3. As you can see, I believe in Father Marsden's integrity.

      Basically I think he was not welcome in homosexualised and predatory Maynooth.

      Even if he was not 100% right he was a voice calling for reform.

      His enemies will ignore the message and shoot the messenger.

      Delete
    4. Exactly Pat.

      Delete
    5. Patsy at 07:58

      Patsy Re: The Fr. Dury,Fr. Marsden debacle.

      We are being told that Fr. Dury was a predator and a serial toucher. We are then told by a very good-looking boyish,slim,fair haired ,blue
      eyed adonis (Debatable)as Fr. Dury was able to resist him the allegations can't be true. Then we are told that Fr. Marsden is homophobic and has his own agenda, others are saying he is faithful to the Church's teaching and his own conscience. I have never heard of these priests so cannot comment on them. Who are we to believe? Can the allegations about them be substantiated?
      Eviva Maria!

      Delete
    6. 07:53

      Hi Marsden! You broke confidentiality in your role as psychologist in Maynooth. You took advantage of students’ trust in you and your role yet you accuse others of inappropriate behaviour?

      Delete
    7. Bishop Pat, you disappoint me with your apparent acceptance of the pejorative slang, 'kittys'.

      I am not a 'kitty'; I spoke the truth about Prof. Drury from my experience of him; that should have been respected.

      This blog is published today on the ground that Ronan Drury may have been done an injustice.

      Don't compound it by doing him another.

      Posts with the word 'kitty' should be edited. You did, after all, edit a number of my posts, and refused to publish others.

      Delete
    8. You are right Magna that people should not be termed "kittys(sic)"
      Neither should they be described as silly "sheep" who don't "know their own mind". Jesus used the term "sheep" to indicate that people should be cared for, nurtured and guided but that was very different.

      Delete
    9. Jesus was speaking of sheep in his care as the Good Shepherd, 15:28. These sheep are perfectly safe, provided they remain in his care.

      The sheep I referred to are in the 'care' of 'hirelings', who think nothing of the sheep. These sheep know that the hirelings do not care for them, readily abuse them, beat them, mock them, starve them, commit bestiality with their lambs, driving these little ones to mental, moral, and (occasionally) to physical death.

      And yet, these sheep, knowing fully what the hirelings have done (and will continue to do), still readily follow them.

      The epithet 'stupid' isn't strong enough to descibe these sheep. But it is justified, all the same.

      By their moral (and, especially, financial) support of the institutional Roman Catholic Church, people are complicit in the evil committed by these priests.

      Delete
  13. Pat, an addendum to yesterday's post. Deacon Byrne a.k.a. Gorgeous has vacated the apartment in the parish house in Donaghmede. Two people were seen removing boxes late last night.
    He'll probably be given a Howth penthouse next!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is this for real?

      If yes, someone has intervened.

      If not, we are being misled.

      This story has so many twists and turns.

      Delete
    2. Or this blog has been making a mountain of a molehill? Remember how you assured us there was a deep, deep story here?

      Delete
  14. Pat, you need to investigate Ronan Drury's involvement in Dr Phelim Donnelly's expulsion from Maynooth. Dr Donnelly was another excellent candidate for the priesthood who fell afoul with authorities for speaking out against the aggressive homosexual culture in the seminary.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ronan Drury is unlikely to have had any say in such matters ever, least of all in his latter years.

      Delete
    2. Drury was the reason that Phelim Donnelly spoke out. You know nothing about the situation 11:25.

      Delete
    3. "Unlikely"

      Oh, but he did have a say in such matters...Bigger than most would imagine.

      Delete
  15. Drury would feel guys up in homiletics under the pretence of teaching. He was a dirty old queen. By the way Pat, did you know he left behind 900k in his will, great witness to simple living and gospel values.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Euro 900,000

      Did he win the lottery?

      Delete
    2. The fact that he left it rather than spending it all does indeed say something about living simply.

      Delete
    3. I don't know if he touched or felt anyone with or without their consent or knowledge, including Magna Carta, but it sounds like he had enough money to pay for "extras" at saunas without allegedely resorting to feeling around seminarians privates, etc.

      Delete
    4. Yes, but surely the point is that Fr. Drury "left" the accumulated savings for others'use! This was only possible because he had not been in the lifelong happy of squandering his parish wages.... Think before you accuse...

      Delete
    5. Parish wages? Drury was a lifelong parish dodger. His apartment in Long Corridor was bigger than the President's. He took over the rooms next door and added them to his and got a kitchen added for when he entertained in his bachelor pad.

      Delete
  16. A descent into gutter, tabloid, filthy blogging. All speculation, no verification of any allegation, hearsay and innuendo. Pat, a disreputable piece in Fr. Drury. R.I.P. Roll on God's judgment on you! The sooner the better....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Psshhhyy Kitty...

      Delete
    2. 09:10, was that adolescent response really your best shot?

      Delete
  17. homosexual panic is rife here

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More like Lavander Mafia panicing :-)

      Delete
    2. No, it's the absurd situation of when, say, a computer instructor guides a student's hand or touches his shoulder, and he rushes to complain he felt "uncomfortable". NOW no prof dares touch a student in any way, but there was a more normal and natural world a few years ago.

      Delete
    3. 09:27, the only thing I find rife here is over-stretched imagination and burning desire to 'convict' Prof. Ronan Drury, regardless of his actual guilt or innocence.

      The central issue isn't, after all, Prof. Drury's conduct, but what is motivating the obvious hatred against Drury in certain posters to the blog. This would make a much more interesting blog topic than Ronan Drury.

      This is the literary equivalent of mob justice, and it is a sickening expression of personal and collective evil.

      Delete
  18. What a despicable poster you are at 9.00.
    Wishing Pat dead.
    You are the one in the gutter today.





    What are you going to spend this windfall on ? ? ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've had letters written to "Dear Satan"

      And one good Catholic daily communicant saying she offered up her communion that morning that I'd get cancer.

      The fruits of.....................

      Delete
    2. 09.37: Have you no sense of wicked humour!! Idiot. Pat definitely needs God's judgment. I'm presently on my knees praying FERVENTLY for him. I am a good Christian. Certainly.

      Delete
    3. She should have stayed at home,Pat.
      I can never understand how those professing to be practicing Catholics can type such vitriolic posts.
      There is something seriously amiss in their souls.

      Delete
    4. Humble aren't you 09:55? The real Christians don't realise they are good Christians. God is presently exposing the filth in His church all around the world. A filth which has remained hidden for far too long.

      Delete
    5. 10.07: "... And I can never understand how Pat and his cohort of anti Catholic bigots can type such vitriolic posts either so frequently...!" - The nerve of Christians to complain! Such unacceptable audacity!! Grow up...

      Delete
  19. Dear Satan, Indeed! How offensive to Satan.
    We should all be praying that Pat gets what's coming to him, no more no less!

    ReplyDelete
  20. 9.55
    Making excuses now.
    No I’m not an Id***another despicable word.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 10 22....Getting all weepy and touchy, are we?..Poor thing. I'm sure you've been called worse than an idiot! Buffoon....

      Delete
    2. I’m a retired professional woman...and did not profess to belong to any type of religion.
      Not in the habit of calling anyone....just don’t understand how anyone anonymous or not can degrade themselves on a blog

      Delete
  21. Pat, I can testify for Fr David Marsden, I knew him for many years when he resided in Ireland and he was a fine priest and a good ordinary bloke. The dogs on the street could tell us over the years that Maynooth was not fit for purpose. The problem we have in Ireland is that we are too passive and do not speak up for truth, albeit the Bishops have buried their heads in the sand for many years which has made the problem worse. We no longer have a proper Catholic Identity in his country, it is masked with cowardice and not rocking the boat. The heading in Fr Marsden's article, Dictatorship of Blandness sums it up

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. David Marsden is no longer listed on the updated Oscott College Website.

      Delete
    2. Well, yes, 13:50...That would make sense since he was fired from Oscott.

      God bless him for speaking the truth about these filthy rotten seminaries.

      Delete
  22. Drury was harmless. He could be a little bit too “touchy feely” for some people but to try and cast him as the “Irish McCarrick” is risible.

    Also risible is the persistence of Magna Caca’s fantasy of himself as slim, fair-haired, blue-eyed, “good-looking”, etc. Both risible and pathetic.

    Oh to see ourselves as others see us, M Caca. Or in your case as you actually appeared - not in the virtual reality of your own wistful thinking - but in actual reality: an ugly, vitriolic, thoroughly unpleasant, pallid and clammy, acid-tongued little queen.

    The reason Drury paid you no attention was this thorough nastiness - physically and in every other way.

    Clearly, “blond, blue-eyed”, etc., is your type and what you actually fancy a bit of yourself! You couldn’t make it up! Lol

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, indeed, MC’s fantasy is a scream!

      And he imagines himself too as a “double hard macho bastard”, who would have kicked any “queer” in the balls, who would have dared to look crooked at him.

      All the gays were terrified of this ferocious Macauley Culkin lookalike, stomping manfully around Maynooth, in the 80s!

      It’s hilarious really! ROFL

      Delete
    2. Not only you couldn't make it up about Magna but he can't get it up either.

      Delete
  23. Isn’t it a bit late to be wondering about possible injustice to the late professor after the blog has been published? That question should have been asked before publishing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Better late than never 12.04
      Being too touchy feely was wrong then, same as it is now.
      To the poster who said it was ok back then...stop making excuses for him.
      Gaynooth sounds like a cesspit and needs obliterated.
      I certainly wouldn’t want any of my grandsons going there and I do advise them to keep away from the clergy.

      Delete
  24. The Gospel preaches the fullness of life, whereas the priesthood and seminary life is anything but that: at best guilty and repressed; at worst blatantly hypocritical. Ronan Drury, it seems, was a generally harmless old queen who spent his entire life only able to express his identity in a quick squeeze or embarrassing reference to knobs. That is no way for anyone to live. David Marsden on the hand has lived, or so it seems ( one never really knows ), entirely true to the Church’s teachings on sexuality and is determined to impose them. These teachings are nonsense: wrong, dangerous and sociopathic if not pyschopathic. Yes, I know, some people will now be praying I die screaming of cancer, which rather proves my point. The seminary council at Maynooth know these teachings are nonsense, so do not impose them. They are right, but the result is a culture of dissembling and cover up, which is entirely responsible for the collapse in trust and integrity in the Church today. The clerical caste is completely ill at ease with women, homosexuals who are living perfectly good and normal lives ( as opposed to the clerical closet ) and a good many other categories. If we are not prepared to have frank and open discussions, then we can forget reform. It’s not going to happen, so do what young people everywhere are doing: walk and follow the sun. It’s all over, Fathers: you’ve been screwing yourselves, each other and everybody for long enough.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Homoheresy and Modernism will be defeated by the Church as was Arianism, Pelagianism, Jansenism and all the other "isms".

      Delete
    2. Indeed, 12:47, by your stating categorically that the Church's teachings on sexuality are not just nonsense, but "wrong, dangerous and sociopathic if not psychopathic", you sound truly open to the "frank and open discussions" that you think are needed.

      It should be clear that it is not the Church's rules that are the problem - we are not seeing all of these scandals because priests and bishops followed the rules, but precisely because they broke the rules! The rules did not cause priests to abuse or to live double lives, no more than the state imposing speed limits on the roads causes people to drive recklessly.

      Delete
    3. What is 'Homoheresy' and 'Modernism'?

      Or haven't you the wit to define your terms?

      (By the way, you should proof-read your comments before posting them: 'Homoheresy' clearly isn't an '-ism'.)

      Delete
    4. 14.07 never claimed that "homoheresy" is an "ism".

      Delete
    5. Ah, but your post, being ambiguous, can suggest it. As it did to me.

      So, what is so-called 'Homoheresy' and 'Modernism'.

      Or didn't you know what you were talking about?

      Delete
    6. MC, "Homoheresy" is the attempt to normalise homosexual behaviour and put this perversion on the same level as natural, God designed heterosexual sex. This futile attempt is being made by what is now a majority homosexual clerical body.

      "Modernism" is basically the erroneous philosophical belief that man is the arbiter and measure of reality, not God. Truth, according to "Modernism", is predicated on an individual's subjective perceptions and beliefs and not on an objective order or natural law created by God.

      And in order to pre-empt your hysterical remonstrations that many heterosexuals now engage in anal sex, I mean penis inserted into vagina old-school-natural-baby making sex when I use the term heterosexual sex.

      Delete
    7. Magna Carta @ 18:10, it was I who posted at 17:14. However, I am not the same poster as 14:07. If I had posted the earlier comment, I would have begun by saying "I never claimed..." rather than "14:07 never claimed...".

      Delete
    8. 18:40, by 'normalise' homosexual behaviour I presume you mean 'make it morally and socially acceptable'. And by 'homosexual behaviour' I presume you mean, at least predominantly, 'anal intercourse'.

      What is the alternative to normalising such behaviour? It is, of course, homophobic suppression of it. If history has taught us anything (at least, those of us willing to learn its lessons) it is that this reaction often expresses itself in physical violence against LGBT people, including their murder. Is this what would satisfy you? A heresy greater than that of the so-called 'homoheresy'? Because it gravely violates the second great commandment left us by Jesus: to love our neighbour as if he were our very self. If none of this bothers you, then you have no business calling yourself 'christian'.

      As for anal intercourse, I, too, believe that this is morally wrong, whether practised either by gays or straights. But if my presumption is correct, you have reduced 'homosexual behaviour' to buggery alone. To a mind such as yours, this is telling and pitiful, in almost equal measure. There is so much more to homosexual relationships than this. But are you prepared to listen and learn.

      The man who sits up night after night with his sick and dying partner, sacrificing his sleep and physical rest that another might be comforted and strengthened by his presence. This, too, is 'homosexual behaviour'. Would you seek to suppress it as well?

      As for your definition of Modernism ('the erroneous... belief that man is the arbiter and measure of reality, not God), I'm afraid that even a cursory reading of Roman Catholic Church history shows that mere men, clerics, very often tried and succeeded in doing precisely what you decry: think of the bloodshed of the Crusades, the roving tribunals of the Papal Inquisition, the moral support of slavery, torture, etc. And yet your faith is in the same church to save the world from the things you oppose.

      Learn the lesson of history. Put your faith in God, not in his church, because this whore will continue to f**k with the world. As she always has done.

      Note: no hysteria here. 😆

      Delete
    9. The Truth of Jesus Christ sets his people free; not the "truth" of Magna Carta. Your mind has been darkened and blinded by Satan. Pray for the grace to know the Truth.

      Delete
    10. MC, please don't try to artificially amplify my post. I never mentioned anything regarding amiable male companionship as described in your fourth paragraph.

      Delete
    11. No, 20:47! Listen carefully: it is precisely homosexual behaviour, at least one expression of it. One among so many.

      It is disengenuous of you to characterise it as 'male companionship'. Would you speak thus of a married, heterosexual couple? Would you call it nothing more than male-female companionship?

      Delete
    12. What have I said, 20:43, that Jesus himself didn't either say or imply?

      Delete
  25. Anonymous at 11:07

    Thank you so much for giving us a more accurate description of M.C., I did think his description of himself was a bit over the top. However to hear the truth from someone who actually knows him is a revelation. He/She really has to come off the gargle and come into the real world. The truth shall set you free. Evan you Polly. Love and prayers B. Eviva Maria!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. His description of himself (Magna Caca’s) is most interesting and telling indeed.

      It’s far from the truth because he would blow his cover and lose the anonymity he needs and obviously carefully guards.

      It’s telling though that he seeks to portray himself in the way he does. It’s indicative of his own sexual proclivities.

      Clearly, this individual, who trolls as “Magna Carta”, likes slim, blond, blue-eyed lads. lol

      Delete
  26. +Pat- quick question for you. As a gay man, would you have survived formation while under Fr Marsden? I greatly doubt you would have made it to minor orders never mind holy orders.

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  27. Magna, one of the problems of clergy is often their refusal to see more than one side of a friend or someone they admire. And when they do see it they make the terrible judgement that their good is greater than their mistakes or penchants. I am sure that some meeting Brendan Smith on a good day felt they were blest, and perhaps they were. But you have to be a victim to understand meeting him on a bad day.

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    1. With respect 17:02, the issue isn't the morally dark or lighter sides of Prof. Drury's personality and/or behaviour, and when these were or weren't witnessed/experienced, and by whom. Nor is it about misguided loyalty to the man on my part. I barely knew him, and then only professionally.

      But it IS (or ought to be) about evidence. CREDIBLE evidence. Not about hysterical or catty name-calling, or score-settling.

      So far I have heard little more than bitchy allegation against the man.

      My posts about Drury are not a mindless, or misguidedly loyal, attempt to defend him. But, collectively, they are another piece in this jigsaw, every bit as important as at least some (but not all) of the others. And all the more so in the absence of CREDIBLE evidence.

      This absence is notable, and significant.

      Delete
    2. 17.02: That rather poor argument can be said of any of us about any friends we have. We each have our own peculiarities, mannerisms and unique traits, which, over time give us different insights into one another that may cause us to question our original impressions. We change all the time. Intimating that Fr. Drury wasn't or may not have been seen fully for who he was is to impugn his good character, to which I can attest out of personal experience. A truly k8nd, good and decent human being (priest). Also to put his name in the same sentence as Brendan Symth is very unfortunate and creates an immediate question mark about him. That is most unjust. I think you should carefully read Magna's comments at 18.02. What we want is not hysterical, catty, name calling, score settling, innuendo or gossip but REAL, CREDIBLE evidence which is, so far, notably absent. This blog depends too much on gossip, insinuation and petty mindedness, all of which are never a basis for TRUTH or JUSTICE all of which would be inafmissable in a court of law.

      Delete
    3. Maynooth seminarians always looked down on seminarians who had come from The Wing. They were never regarded as full members of the college. Might this explain handsome MC's angst?

      Delete
    4. 19:39, my 'angst'?

      If only you had known what 'wingers' thought of you lot, with your plastic degrees. At least ours were awarded by a reputable university, Queen's.

      Delete
    5. Oh! That explains it, darling, I used to wonder why you came home from seminary muttering about Queen's. I did think the peroxide blonde hair was too much, though, darling. My sister used to say it made you look like a male tart. Thank goodness you've gone back to your natural shade of Tabby now.

      Delete
    6. Mommie Dearest, my 'peroxide' hair colour was actually my own. But you, like poor Joseph Poorgrass in Thomas Hardy's 'Far from the Madding Crowd' were habitually handicapped, daily, by the 'multiplying eye' (a symptom of alcohol intoxification), as was JP.

      Dearest, in this, almost staple condition, you could not (sorry for the forthcoming vulgarity) tell your arse from your elbow. And you frequently confused the two, didn't you, by trying to 'sit' in armchairs with your legs ingloriously in the air? God! That was mortifying, especially when I brought home school chums.

      Dearest, you know that I love you. (But not what you so self-humiliatingly do to yourself.😢)

      Delete
  28. Hugh Connolly has the answers - if the allegations against Drury were false then Maynooth would be quick to issue a denial instead there is silence and a few useful idiots employed to pretend Drury was a saint! At least it means they take the blog seriously.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If I'm a 'useful idiot' 17:40, then you're an equally useful fool. Such fools are useful because they make a lot of noise to cover the fact that there is a distinct (and, it has to be said, 'for you embarrassing') absence of CREDIBLE evidence here.

      I'm afraid your highly personal interpretation of others' alleged silence on the matter does not spell C-R-E-D-I-B-L-E E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E.

      Now if Ronan Drury himself were alive and remained silent on such a grave allegation (s), then this would arouse justifiable suspicion, but in itself, and alone, would not constitute this kind of evidence.

      You really are clutching at straws, aren't you? In a strong wind of desperation?

      Delete
    2. What evidence do you want you screaming bitch MC? Drury's semen all over a seminarian's face? Sexual predation is extremely hard to prove and clerical sexual predators are amongst the most dangerous, crafty species to walk this earth. Connolly told Marsden that there was a credible allegation made against Drury AND a priest told Marsden that he was molested as a 1st year seminarian; the foregoing, on top of the Dr Phelim Donnelly case is all evidence enough for me. And the Lavender Mafia smoke screen merchants with their heart tugging letters don't fool me.

      Delete
    3. 20.18: You should advertise yourself for a porno film! Vivid imagination - or write a sleazy novel using that wild, fantasist language.

      Delete
    4. The only one 'screaming' here is you, 20:18.

      Yes, sexual predation can be extremely hard to prove, but proved it must be. Your anger makes this all the more important.

      Allowing people to be judged by human emotion, even in part, is not justice.

      Delete
  29. How did Ronan Drury from county Cavan end up a priest of the diocese of Meath (though he never served a day in a Meath or Kilmore parish).

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    Replies
    1. Meath diocese does not have the same borders as Meath county. Meath diocese has parishes in Meath, Westmeath, Offaly, Longford, Louth and Cavan

      Delete
  30. What is Mgr Tim Bartlett's current assignment now that the disasterous WMOF is over?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Bishop Joe Duffy was a great friend of Kitty Drury.

    Being professor of homiletics in Maynooth was a very soft number. The post hasn't been filled since Kitty.

    ReplyDelete
  32. "Everyone had girls names in the seminary". Lol

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/stage/everyone-had-girls-names-in-the-seminary-1.3561377?mode=amp

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  33. Magna, thanks for your reply at 18.02. It is fair comment. For my own view, I am drawing on my experience of terrible ill treatment for years by a priest and his bishop while their reputations are intact.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If what you say is true 18:02 (and I'm not questioning your integrity; I just don't know you), then I hope you can acquire the necessary evidence against them.

      Perhaps others were treated in the way you claim to have been treated. If only they would come forward, it would make your allegation credible.

      All the best.

      Delete
  34. What doubt Magna Drury had a thing for his beloved professor.

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    1. Everyone! This silly, juvenile ad hominem at 21:13 is precisely the kind of comment that I have been criticising here today.

      Would any of you care to face judgement by such a mindset as this?

      Nor should Ronan Drury have to.

      Delete
    2. Magna Caca at 21:39 - get over yourself you twat. Do you honestly believe that anyone, apart from a few loopers like yourself, takes anything you say on this blog with anything other than a large pinch of salt?

      Delete
    3. Oh, Jeez! It's Groundhog Day again.

      23:39, why did you respond to my post if you feel the way you claim?

      You f**k*n', uneducated and stupid prick!😆

      Delete
    4. Magna Caca at 23:55 - go and f**k yourself you moronic, supercilious w**ker! :-D

      Delete
  35. Has this blog become MC's blog again judging by the vast majority of posts by him or about him.

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    1. I wonder where Bill the Mad Mulvihill has disappeared to?

      Delete
    2. MournemanMichael:
      Anon @ 22:31, perhaps you, along with Anon @ 23:39 above could reflect on what Anon @ 00:23 on 21st writes below concerning Magna. It's obvious that he is well able to 'run rings' around many of his critics, both from an intellectual and an informed perspective well versed in religious matters.
      So I am glad that +Pat resisted calls to ban him back in a phase of his intemperate comments. While his critics' focus is usually on his manner of expression, few, if any, make any sensible attempt to debate or contest his arguments.
      Michael

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    3. The name of “Magna Carta” is legion for they are many, MMM.

      The venal and visceral nature of the Alter Ego(s) operating under the banner of “Magna Carta”, or “Magna Caca” as some wag(s) have fittingly renamed it, is most off putting. Why argue with a “straw man”?

      Fighting/arguing with the Alter Ego(s) hiding under “Magna Carta” is like battling the Lernaean Hydra - you chop off one head and two grow in its place. A pointless exercise like herding cats. Let the Magna Caca at it I say.

      Delete
  36. 'It was the afternoon of my eighty-first birthday, and I was in bed with my catamite when Ali announced that the Archbishop had come to see me'.

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    Replies
    1. It's the opening line of Anthony Burgess' "Earthly Powers'.

      Delete
  37. 23.39 Apart from when he gets angry or retaliatory, Magna adds greatly to any discussion here. His serious replies always have a depth to them. There are few here able to reply as he does.

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  38. it is well known Mullaney and Prior were molested by Drury during their seminary days. Mullaney and Prior fell in love with Drury and in one way were encapsulated by his charming character.

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    Replies
    1. 02:49 you are a liar. That statement is utterly false. Have you nothing better to do than drunkenly slander the dead and the living in the middle of the night? What substance are you using? Probably a combination of booze and other drugs.

      Delete