tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post2003487720817902049..comments2024-03-12T19:57:41.861+00:00Comments on THINKING CATHOLICISM: SEX AND BELFAST SEMINARY - "THE WING"Thinking Catholicismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-67643969829318276552015-05-11T06:33:42.868+01:002015-05-11T06:33:42.868+01:00Let's not forget the HIGH SOCIETY Bishop in Da...Let's not forget the HIGH SOCIETY Bishop in Dallas, Texas. Bishop Farrell arrived in Dallas from New Jersey several years ago and the very thing he did was purchase a pricey home in the rich section of Dallas. He said he needed it to entertain his rich guests in Dallas in order to solicit donations for the church.<br />Well, the diocese has a huge social hall connected to the Cathedral in downtown Dallas that would have suit this purpose splendidly bur the Bishop didn't want that.<br />He probably would have garnered even larger donations BECAUSE people would have been impressed with his humble attitude, But this Bishop is very much into himself and he doesn't think like this.<br />He's also the Bishop who has refused for years and years to feed homeless people on Christmas Eve by helping to fund the Catholic charity of 17 years that feeds them a huge buffet meal every Christmas Eve,<br />Doesn't it say in the Bible that you're supposed to feed the hungry and shelter the needy? I guess this Bishop of Dallas took the day off from the seminary when they covered this dictate of Christian charity, I don't buy his selfish attitude.<br />Don't EVER try to get an appointment with this Bishop as he remains totally inaccessible to the common folk. And, after sending him at least 40 emails over the years I have NEVER gotten one email in response. That alone tells me volumes about the character of this Bishop. Smokescreen 101homeycozyangelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15943546058452192724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-20170598506799781252015-03-08T21:33:54.697+00:002015-03-08T21:33:54.697+00:00as a young guy at at jesuit school in 1970's ...as a young guy at at jesuit school in 1970's i believe what went on above.......... i was thereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-89874304350732739092015-03-08T21:32:34.993+00:002015-03-08T21:32:34.993+00:00as a guy at a jesuit school for 8 yrs in the 1970&...as a guy at a jesuit school for 8 yrs in the 1970's<br />unfortunately i know what happenedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-78844397992937428882015-03-06T11:27:48.270+00:002015-03-06T11:27:48.270+00:00The fact still remains that there is a serious pro...The fact still remains that there is a serious problem running through D&C <br />There are a group of priests who seem to think it is ok to bad mouth other priests, hurt and upset the good Parishoners, and destroy a whole parish - and yet, nothing is done, in fact quite the opposite, it seems to be that once they have successful wrecked the place and hurt everyone in the process, they get a big promotion! <br /><br />Where is McManus now? <br /><br />What do other priests, who contribute to this blog feel about his behaviour within Sacred Heart & Whitehouse Parishes ? I would be interested to hear their opinions! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-57072059850443829252015-03-05T21:24:33.614+00:002015-03-05T21:24:33.614+00:00I'll drink to that!I'll drink to that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-45116060958661493982015-03-05T20:47:52.219+00:002015-03-05T20:47:52.219+00:00Hopefully at St Brigid's Lake of Beer :-)Hopefully at St Brigid's Lake of Beer :-)Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-40407262554284999842015-03-05T19:41:19.386+00:002015-03-05T19:41:19.386+00:00Where will I spend Eternity? With you and Jesus, I...Where will I spend Eternity? With you and Jesus, I expect. We can have a good laugh together - for Eternity!��Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-80228730509109248702015-03-05T18:39:45.551+00:002015-03-05T18:39:45.551+00:00My Friend,
Thank you. I will do my best to follow...My Friend,<br /><br />Thank you. I will do my best to follow your advice.<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-64677845651814555392015-03-05T18:15:21.858+00:002015-03-05T18:15:21.858+00:00Pat, I was moved by your honest and humble respons...<br /><br />Pat, I was moved by your honest and humble response to my post.<br /><br />Don't misunderstand: I wasn't judging and condemning you or anyone else; whatever <br />you all have done, I have done the same or the like.<br /><br />It's just that I don' want you to change for the worse. As a young priest, you inspired me. You were the kind of priest I wanted to be: compassionate, merciful, just, courageous, intelligent, innovative and, above all, steadfast in your service of Christ and his people. No matter what your enemies hurled at you, your resolve remained. You were an incredible example of a priest whose priesthood pointed squarely to the <br />continuing priesthood of Christ in the Church. Such a contrast to the priesthood of so many others, which pointed to themselves rather than Christ. Those men should not <br />have been ordained.<br /><br />I know you have suffered such abuse at the hands of fellow priests, and it makes me <br />angry when I think of it.<br /><br />Please continue to serve Christ with the same loyalty to his Spirit that you once so <br />clearly showed, that empowered you, and yes, that brought you such terrible crosses for loyal service. This is the biblical meaning of 'cross', but then, you know this much <br />better than I.<br /><br />Your blog has enormous potential to shine light into some very dark places both in <br />the Church and the wider world. Don't diminish that potential by eclipsing your light with personal abuse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-10842729854437863632015-03-05T16:12:02.679+00:002015-03-05T16:12:02.679+00:00I think, Fr, you need to lighten up a wee bit mayb...I think, Fr, you need to lighten up a wee bit maybe. "Phylis" was how J McM was referred to by the clerical students in The Wing. Our Lord, after all, called Herod "that fox" because he had fox-like qualities. McManus was called Phylis, if I remember correctly, after the fashion of a Hairdressers (Phyliss's) on the Crumlin Road. Because John McManus' hair always had a blue-rinse, bouffant, just out of the Hairdressers style to it! And, by the way, Where will you spend Eternity, Fr?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-38439791804621335642015-03-05T15:19:34.565+00:002015-03-05T15:19:34.565+00:00Have to say I agree wholeheartedly with this senti...Have to say I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment that it does little credit to any contributors here, including you Pat, if we sink to the level of personalised abuse, no matter how humourously or superficially indirectly it's put.<br />I did raise it as an issue some time back. While I simply ignore the childish ignorant and idiotic comments of what in my own mind I think of as alcoholic invective from those few midnight contributors who criticise you personally Pat, I wouldn't want the value of many thoughtful and thought provoking comments minimised by less considered and considerate ones<br />MMMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-63389627300815198512015-03-05T15:10:48.853+00:002015-03-05T15:10:48.853+00:00Dear Friend,
Thank you for your comment and your ...Dear Friend,<br /><br />Thank you for your comment and your constructive criticism.<br /><br />Maybe some aspects of my style of writing has been influenced by the 15 years I spent writing columns for the "Red Top" newspapers?<br /><br />But I also have a sense of humour - which can be dark and mischievous - that is not appreciated by everyone.<br /><br />But then again I have seen of so much in institutionalised Roman Catholicism that would make you weep if you did not laugh. <br /><br />I can assure you that I have suffered - and continue to suffer - so much abuse at the hands of some clergy that any "abuse" I offer in return. Maybe I am not the Christian I should be? But if I was "meek and mild" they would have buried me years ago.<br /><br />When you are going to build a new house the first stage is always DEMOLITION. Demolition is often a crude and dusty business. I am probably part of the demolition team? <br /><br />I do know that my heart is in the right place and everyday I try to serve God and others (especially the alienated) as best I can.<br /><br />Maybe what I like in "style" I make up for in substance? Either way Jesus is the bridge between the ideal and what we are as sinners. I know that this bridge is MY only hope.<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-19927326569766761342015-03-05T14:36:23.116+00:002015-03-05T14:36:23.116+00:00I came to Thinking Catholicism only last week. I&#...I came to Thinking Catholicism only last week. I've found this blog exciting (it has a gutter-press appeal), informative (when it isn't being hysterical), and occasionally humourous (when it isn't being malicious or vindictive). But I've found, too, disappointment at the personal abuse from some of its contributors, including you Pat.<br /><br />Take the post above from a priest on 5 March at 10.45. After suggesting (no doubt fraternally) that some of his colleagues might, in light of their conduct, ponder just where they are going to spend Eternity, slips into some questionable conduct of his own by referring to a fellow priest as 'Phylis' and thereafter as 'she' and 'her'. Hardly respectful. And hardly the impulse of the Spirit. But the irony seems lost on that priest.<br /><br />As for you Pat, was it really necessary, in a previous post, to refer to a fellow- priest's 'big willy' just because you disagreed with his stance on abortion (which, incidentally, he's entitled to)? You and I know that's what's called an 'ad hominem' argument (one that attacks a person rather than their point of view); it isn't really an argument at all, but a form of gratuitous personal abuse and a clear sign that the author has lost the debate. Yes, it was amusing, in a sniggering sort of way. But respectful? An impulse of the Spirit?<br /><br />If our profession of faith in Christ makes no difference to our conduct towards one another (especially to those with whom we strongly disagree), then what's the point of it? Sure don't the pagans do as much?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-35314246020072900222015-03-05T11:41:34.345+00:002015-03-05T11:41:34.345+00:00Dear Father,
Thank you for that honest and plain ...Dear Father,<br /><br />Thank you for that honest and plain speaking comment.<br /><br />I do agree with you that Phylis was "on the way up" - and what's more she knew it - which gave her a feeling of invincibility. Had PW continued to reign she may well have had a mitre by now.<br /><br />PW seemed either powerless against James Donaghy. Donaghy has always claimed that he had "something" on PW. PW denied this to me at a face to face meeting in Lisbreen. But when he denied it he was looking at the floor.<br /><br />I do agree that Noel Treanor inherited a poisoned chalice. <br /><br />Maybe his "perceived" remoteness and coldness is a defence mechanism? But this approach will not work. It is causing more problems.<br /><br />Only a courageous and grace-filled intimate involvement with both priests and people is the answer to all these ills. <br /><br />Maybe he is overwhelmed by the size of the problem?<br /><br />But very soon something is going to give - and what an explosion / implosion that will be.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-4148348987477174302015-03-05T10:45:34.495+00:002015-03-05T10:45:34.495+00:00A couple of points: I think Pat may sadly be right...A couple of points: I think Pat may sadly be right and that a number of our colleagues have no Faith or belief in God at all and are mere functionaries cynically filling a "role". That makes me shudder. <br /><br />You see nailed up on trees and telegraph poles in this part of the world a question they might ponder - "Where will you spend Eternity?"<br /><br />No doubt - if "Phylis" had not been stopped in her trot, she was heading for a severe case of "inflammation of the button holes" - maybe even auxiliary bishop. That too makes me shudder.<br /><br />I think whoever "got" this diocese was receiving a "poisoned chalice" - poisoned by the likes of "Phylis" and other cronies, the "in crowd" as they were, under PW.<br /><br />Donaghy, we all remember was "Jubilee Jim" and does anyone else recall that nauseating production in the Waterfront Hall back then which was, essentially, a hymn of praise in honour of "This Great Diocese Of Down And Connor"?? I sat through it. I hope it has shortened my purgatory.<br /><br />Bishop Treanor has been handed this "poisoned chalice". I personally find him to be a gentleman - a good man and I will happily work with him in serving God's People here who deserve best service.<br /><br />Finally, I believe we must all have a bit more confidence in God. This is not a "game". This is the life upon which the Lord will judge us, when we stand in front of Him, after drawing our last breaths.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-74450779473342458912015-03-04T22:01:27.949+00:002015-03-04T22:01:27.949+00:00What a sad state of affairs. There is politics pla...What a sad state of affairs. There is politics plans, counter plans and strategies. Is there any care of souls does the name of Jesus or christian faith get a look in edgeways? What of the other denominations? How are they measuring up in terms of care of souls vs the woes of the organisation?Fly on Th Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520198020314816276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-87836760853820952822015-03-04T20:25:10.617+00:002015-03-04T20:25:10.617+00:00Another question/thought. Has any civil action for...Another question/thought. Has any civil action for damages been taken against Donaghy, and/or D&C diocese?<br />Bearing in mind the diocese's duty of care; that abuse by at least one priest (officer, or at least a representative of the diocesan organisation) is now proven in law; that concerns at his behaviour had been raised with his diocesan manager the bishop much earlier; the many precedents now established by substantial awards for damages, it would seem that civil action for damages could well be productive in addition to providing the oxygen of publicity to further highlight evils done.<br />MMM<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-22496443478252967302015-03-04T16:04:24.760+00:002015-03-04T16:04:24.760+00:00I would like to thank my fellow D&C Priest who...I would like to thank my fellow D&C Priest who contributed to the blog at 10.44 on March 2nd. I agree with everything he said. <br />In my own experience as a Priest in this diocese I have come to the conclusion that any cleric who raises an uncomfortable truth or issue for the Bishop, will through time discover that they are viewed as "the problem". I have witnessed numerous examples of this over decades.<br />I and many other clergy in this diocese hoped and prayed that Bishop Walsh's successor would have brought a different outlook, and practice to the role of Diocesan Bishop. Very sadly Bishop Treanor has been a huge disappointment in this regard. He has many of the worst traits of Bishop Walsh, and a few of his own as well,<br />including year by year leading less & less Confirmation ceremonies; the 84 yr old Bishop Walsh often filling in for him. <br />We now face the prospect of 12/13 more yrs of Noel's detached ministry. I doubt there will be much to salvage in our Diocese when he finally hangs up his crozier !<br /><br />Priest of Down & Connor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-76220158773792253582015-03-04T11:59:13.724+00:002015-03-04T11:59:13.724+00:00Thanks MMM.
I totally respect your humanist persp...Thanks MMM.<br /><br />I totally respect your humanist perspective.<br /><br />From my perspective they have abandoned their "faith" in God for the worship of a Golden Calf of their own making - their "church".<br /><br />From any perspective the fruits of this behaviour have to be ridicule and total loss of credibility. <br /><br />Their idolatry will be their undoing - an undoing that, thankfully, is well under way.<br /><br />Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-23250924658888949832015-03-04T11:19:05.264+00:002015-03-04T11:19:05.264+00:00Pat: Thank you for that illuminating and succinct ...Pat: Thank you for that illuminating and succinct reply.<br />I see no reason whatsoever to disbelieve your comments, clearly arising from experience, nor do I think your perceptions are negatively biased as you are outside what you call the 'clerical club'.<br /><br />My humanism comes from beliefs outside the personal failures of clergy in the tribal church I was reared in. But were I still in that process of seeking truth justice and meaning in the RC religion, scandalous personal behaviour and cover ups by its clergy such as have now been made public, would certainly raise serious doubts in my mind as to the basis and validity of any part of their professed religious beliefs.<br />MourneManMichaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-27185564239523234612015-03-04T09:37:20.896+00:002015-03-04T09:37:20.896+00:00This is a very well thought out attempt to underst...This is a very well thought out attempt to understand the dynamics of the whole situation.<br /><br />As the representative of the family of one of the seminarians -and eventually the seminarian himself - it took me 10 years to make Bishop Walsh act and even then the action was pitiful. <br /><br />The two overiding priorities of Bishop Walsh and the clergy were the "good name" of the church and the protection, at any cost of fellow clerics.<br /><br />The only "bombs" that cracked open this clerical bunker were publicity and eventually prosecution. <br /><br />My own view is that everything and everyone could be sacrificed on the altar of protecting the clerical club. What value have 12 seminarians compared to the invaluable jewels that are "the church" and the "priestly caste". <br /><br />It was a case of: "It is necessary that 12 men should die to save the " Bride of Christ". <br /><br />To me this kind of thinking is as far away from the teachings of Christ as the earth is from the edge of the universe. Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-79626685720753414322015-03-03T21:11:11.727+00:002015-03-03T21:11:11.727+00:00Believe me, I'm no apologist for abusers or th...Believe me, I'm no apologist for abusers or their clerical managers. <br />I've just been trying to think of possible explantions for the failures by bishop Walsh and others mentioned to take proper preventive action concerning sexual improprieties at St Malachy's Wing.<br />At worst end of the scale of blame, were conscious choices made to ignore evidence, thereby further victimising complainants? And if that was the case very serious questions inevitably arise: were 'superiors' too involved in improprieties?<br /><br />Working from the other end of the scale of blame, how feasible is it that in those less enlightened days, clerical superiors had so little knowledge, experience or understanding of homosexual sexual improprieties and its damaging effects, that this (at a time long before current public awareness of the issues) combined with naivety and incredulity as to the events alleged, when combined with an instinctive reluctance to think the worst of clerical colleagues, and a gullibility in accepting their 'explanations', led to disbelief of the complaints being made. I ask this bearing in mind that as said elsewhere in Pat's blogs, some clergy are simply not very bright, and we should not equate clerical ranking/superiority with either superior intelligence, intellectual rigour, or indeed the moral courage and strength of character required to take decisive action.<br /><br />Elsewhere, posts refer to McManus having now 'gone absent amid suspicions of homosexual activity, and previously he was 'salivating at trying to get into boys trunks.' So was McManus just as manipulative an abuser as Donaghy? And if so, is it right to blame bishop Walsh, particularly as you say Pat that you've got copies of letters from McManus to Walsh denying Donaghy's impropriety. I'm wondering what reports written or verbal , were made at the relevant times, by whom, and to whom?<br /> Having asked these questions, I'm conscious another contributor says that Walsh knew Donaghy had a teenage boy living with him in Whitehouse and Bangor, so it's also reasonable to ask to what extent bishop Walsh questioned Donaghy concerning this.<br />I've more questions than answers, but those of you with personal experience of the events might help shine more factual light into the public domain. Please do.<br /><br />Finally I wonder what parallels might exist here with current criticisms of police and social services managers in Rotherham and Oxford concerning grooming and sexual abuse of young girls there. <br />What forces, personal, practical social and political, militate against those in authority taking strong preventive action?<br />MourneManMichael<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-27806643523979062032015-03-03T16:03:46.442+00:002015-03-03T16:03:46.442+00:00What a good idea. Scrapping celibacy would also he...What a good idea. Scrapping celibacy would also help as would a positive portrayal of human sexuality in all its diversity. The old unwritten law that sex = sin needs to be publically demolishedFly on Th Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520198020314816276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-77814277304695958922015-03-03T14:56:06.841+00:002015-03-03T14:56:06.841+00:00Amen. He has suffered so greatly. I hope he can ac...Amen. He has suffered so greatly. I hope he can achieve healing.<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-80599530823650543102015-03-03T14:52:34.021+00:002015-03-03T14:52:34.021+00:00I heard Fr McCafferty described as a "effing ...I heard Fr McCafferty described as a "effing nuisance", a "disaster" and "a nutcase obsessed with abuse", by senior men in Down and Connor. However, "This poor man called and the Lord heard him and rescued him". Fr Paddy lifted up his voice. Thank God that he did. Priest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com