tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post3218667821862778391..comments2024-03-12T19:57:41.861+00:00Comments on THINKING CATHOLICISM: UGANDAN CATHOLIC BISHOP PREACHES GENOCIDEThinking Catholicismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-43543728391927780412014-08-19T18:21:53.179+01:002014-08-19T18:21:53.179+01:00Well, there are loads of witnesses - a cathedral f...Well, there are loads of witnesses - a cathedral full - who saw Bishop Mawinka somewhere else. He was at St Joseph's Cathedral. <br /><br />He was certainly not at St Charles Lwanga Church. He could not be, for two reasons:<br /><br />one, he was at St Joseph's Cathedral.<br />two, St Charles Lwanga Church does not exist.<br /><br />That's the proven truth and the only person who would persist in denying it is a fool, a besotted acolyte or someone so lost in mendacity that they see the truth as merely an instrument to be deployed if useful and ignored if not.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-9458656953402069612014-08-19T18:17:22.950+01:002014-08-19T18:17:22.950+01:00And you are unencumbered by anything resembling a ...And you are unencumbered by anything resembling a sense of humour.<br /><br />Poor, pathetic boy.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-48636329272674901502014-08-19T17:55:41.301+01:002014-08-19T17:55:41.301+01:00Ruari, you are the only one spreading lies and sla...Ruari, you are the only one spreading lies and slander. Why are you so petty to pick someone up on their spelling. English may be their second language. Your pettiness and immaturity speak volumes about your motives and character. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713062769486878962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-41662258729628046032014-08-19T17:51:52.660+01:002014-08-19T17:51:52.660+01:00Just because someone denies doing something, it do...Just because someone denies doing something, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why are you so willing to believe someone who has a vested interest in denying that he made those comments over all the witnesses who heard what he said.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713062769486878962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-16123705670735811262014-08-19T17:34:18.420+01:002014-08-19T17:34:18.420+01:00Daniel, you know perfectly well that I use my own ...Daniel, you know perfectly well that I use my own name, and only my own name. If I did not, you would have been unable to block me from your Twitter board.<br /><br />You also know that I am not an anti-gay activist. I hold dirt-spreaders, gossip-mongers, bullies and liars to account, including the disingenuous - some would go so far as mendacious - Peter Tatchell. I also seek to hold to account those who encourage, promote or champion abuse of children.<br /><br />I despise lies. Melanie Nathan is a liar. You know what the UK's libel laws are like. Tell her to sue me - if she dares. <br /><br />She is a proven liar, about this and about her mother's alleged role in S Africa. The details of Ms Nathan senior's role in Bophuthatswana are steadily accumulating. I can assure you that there are some pretty strong feelings around - even now, after all these years.<br /><br />As for Bp Mawinka's statement, I refer you to Pat's post on 24 April. He reproduced it in full, to his credit. The link is entitled BISHOP MAWINKA DENIES MELANIE NATHAN'S ALLEGATIONS and can be found towards the top right of this page. It has been up for a while.<br /><br />You continue to obstinately confuse a social club with a church, despite your error being pointed out to you, clearly and unequivocally. <br /><br />Tenaciously clinging to proven untruths and errors and throwing out foolish and easily-disprovable allegations like the above make you look like nothing more than a very silly, petulant, spiteful little boy.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-16547227372282834202014-08-19T14:20:13.745+01:002014-08-19T14:20:13.745+01:00Ruari, you are clearly a liar. You are an anti-gay...Ruari, you are clearly a liar. You are an anti-gay activist trying to throw mud at good decent people as some sort of bizarre vendetta. You won't even use your real name, just multiple fake accounts. There is a church in Kampala by that name. Do some real research. If you have a statement from him then post it. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08713062769486878962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-30866688976804598582014-08-19T13:32:41.780+01:002014-08-19T13:32:41.780+01:00Small apology - you have of course published Bisho...Small apology - you have of course published Bishop Wamika's reply, in another thread/blog/whatever you want to call it.<br /><br />If I may respectfully make a suggestion: it would help people who stumble across this particular thread if you referred them to your full post with Bp Wamika's response from late April. <br /><br />People like jafrako (below) would not then find themselves so misled and so angry at something that did not happen.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-89687318833943806092014-08-19T13:08:31.468+01:002014-08-19T13:08:31.468+01:00People who spread poisonous lies and slander shoul...People who spread poisonous lies and slander should be isolated from civilisation.<br /><br />Also those who cant spell homophobia. they should be cast into the outer darkness.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-17048775270509046802014-08-19T11:18:49.394+01:002014-08-19T11:18:49.394+01:00I have received comment from Bishop Warmika (no in...I have received comment from Bishop Warmika (no inverted commas necessary as he is duly ordained - unlike some I can think of) and I was under the impression you had, as well, Pat. So why not publish them, as you promised? At the time of writing, it has been four months.<br /><br />Just to clarify - Bishop Wamika did not preach a sermon anywhere on easter Sunday. If he had done, it would not have been at St Charles Lwanga Catholic Church, because no such church exists in Uganda - anywhere.<br /><br />So - no sermon, no church. where do you think those who reported the supposed sermon heard these voices in their heads?<br /><br />BTW - Melanie NAthan not only lies about this, she even - shall we say - embellishes her own family history. Her mother worked for a Bantustan government that turned part of South Africa into a bordello for fat perverts from Pretoria and Johannesburg. About as far from human rights advocacy as you can get.<br />Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-66192260444128487392014-08-19T07:33:23.925+01:002014-08-19T07:33:23.925+01:00Uganda should be isolated from civilization as lon...Uganda should be isolated from civilization as long as this awful law is active. Wamika, Bahati, Shinners and all these other homofobic preachers from America who spread like a pesticide over Africa to teach the people there hatred and murder should be trialed before some international tribunal for attempted murder. Wamika should be excommunicated by the Pope. It's a bloody shame we don't hear from the Vatican.jafrakonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-66500529137827411892014-04-22T22:40:11.198+01:002014-04-22T22:40:11.198+01:00It was extremely irresponsible of you to post this...It was extremely irresponsible of you to post this "article" written by someone who likely has an agenda against the Church and which is not corroborated. She wasn't at the mass so this is hearsay at best. Also, the person who reported the alleged comments way very well not have a perfect grasp of the language.<br /><br />The "article" contains almost none of the actual words spoken by the bishop and the supposed "call to genocide" comes from these words:<br /><br />"...lay down greed, corruption and put them to death and let generosity rise up within us and flow out in abundance."<br /><br />This was evidence of a call to genocide?! The bishop is calling the congregation to put to death their feelings of greed and corruption. As you are no doubt aware, this is typical Christian language (dying to self, etc).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-3772978877614883632014-04-22T22:19:21.430+01:002014-04-22T22:19:21.430+01:00I agree with your analysis that Ms Nathan is littl...I agree with your analysis that Ms Nathan is little more than an attention-seeker, Respect. <br /><br />The problem is, this poisonous post has spread and is still spreading across the Web. It could end up causing huge damage.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-17012705362733254212014-04-22T21:28:20.336+01:002014-04-22T21:28:20.336+01:00ALL people here, first clean the mess in USA befor...ALL people here, first clean the mess in USA before jumping thousands of miles away. Please start here in USA with advocating for all people's rights, and not just a few selfish ones like melanie. Melanie is just looking for attention by spreading propaganda that is not helpful to any body.Respectnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-43930667912441077652014-04-22T17:14:42.745+01:002014-04-22T17:14:42.745+01:00I also spoke to His Grace, a few minutes ago, on h...I also spoke to His Grace, a few minutes ago, on his mobile phone. He sounded surprised but the connection wasn't that great - he might just have been surprised to hear from me!<br /><br />I have emailed him with an extract of the core of Ms Nathan's accusations and hope to hear back from him.<br /><br />Mean while, Ms Nathan's most recent responses to me on her blogsite don't even reach the heights of structure displayed in the extracts I reproduced above. the kindest description is incoherent rambling, I fear.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-83690618832985781522014-04-22T17:00:20.770+01:002014-04-22T17:00:20.770+01:00Ruari,
Since we wrote I have spoken by telephone ...Ruari,<br /><br />Since we wrote I have spoken by telephone to Bishop Wakami. See my new BLOG of today.<br /><br />I did try and contact Bishop Wakami - no luck.<br /><br />The 3 telephone numbers on the diocesan website have ne responseThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-5138691781451309892014-04-22T16:28:31.567+01:002014-04-22T16:28:31.567+01:00I look forward to reading it and thank you for pur...I look forward to reading it and thank you for pursuing the matter.<br /><br />As gently as I can...<br /><br />Would it not have been better to have done that in the first place, before disseminating this hugely serious but so-far unsupported accusation? Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-71528160159286098212014-04-22T16:25:31.550+01:002014-04-22T16:25:31.550+01:00We remain in disagreement - quite fundamental.
I ...We remain in disagreement - quite fundamental.<br /><br />I have put to her directly that, as a lawyer, she should be aware of the importance of corroboration.<br /><br />I have read reports of quite a few sermons given on Sunday in Uganda; I have found no corroboration whatsoever. Her background and qualifications are reasonably impressive - but I recall seeing an elderly gentleman on Telly a few years ago talking of his background and the famous people he knew. That was irrelevant to his argument as well - he had to corroborate his accusations or back off. (It was Oswald Mosely, as it happens, but the same applied to jolly old Boothby with his denials of proven connections with the Krays. And even worse)<br /><br />Her reply to me was couched in the following terms - I do not quote it verbatim because it would take up too much space and it's somewhat repetitive anyway.<br /><br />"Well Duh Ruarijm"<br /><br />[Nice start, don't you think?]<br /><br />"…. but look at context context context And as to you other question – my late mother had a saying – “If my aunty had balls she would be my uncle”"<br /><br />[I have no idea what the relevance is of this to anything at all. It seems to be a knee jerk response to being challenged. All I did was ask for a link or corroboration]<br /><br />"I have 3 sources who heard the sermon and one transcribed it. The second confirmed the wording of the transcripts and the third confirmed it via a third party. So I believe my sources as reliable and credible."<br /><br />[This, people, is begging the question - "My sources are reliable and credible because I believe them" It's circular and really doesn't substantiate anything]<br /><br />"...but dont have a voice or film recording. It would be great if someone did have such and it could be provided unedited."<br /><br />[indeed it would. what a shame that none exists.]<br /><br />"My point is if you doubt my article then YOU prove it wrong."<br /><br />[No, it is incumbent upon the accuser to substantiate their accusations. Any half-decent lawyer knows this]<br /><br />"As the BLOGGER delivering the message , I am satisfied my sources are correct."<br /><br />[Not sure why 'BLOGGER' has to be in capitals. But this is merely begging the question again. It is essentially "you can trust me, because I'm honest". To which my response is: prove it]Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-90659629824390131202014-04-22T16:17:01.631+01:002014-04-22T16:17:01.631+01:00I have asked Bishop Wamaki for his comments and wi...I have asked Bishop Wamaki for his comments and will let you have them totally UNCENSOREDThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-86941468828044952732014-04-22T16:15:54.463+01:002014-04-22T16:15:54.463+01:00Mark,
Thank you for your comment. I agree with al...Mark,<br /><br />Thank you for your comment. I agree with all you say.<br /><br />You are not a Prod. The Church of England is catholic (with a small c)<br /><br />Nice to hear from you.<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-37486076450983719532014-04-22T16:14:39.791+01:002014-04-22T16:14:39.791+01:00I have emailed Bishop Wamaki to ask his response o...I have emailed Bishop Wamaki to ask his response on his reported statements. I will print his reply - IN FULL - if I get oneThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-45774900510681486282014-04-22T16:11:38.352+01:002014-04-22T16:11:38.352+01:00I have asked Melanie Nathan to back up her source ...I have asked Melanie Nathan to back up her source on this Blog.<br /><br />Maybe there is not a writen or taped transcript. Not every priest and bishop preaches from notes?Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-63462585166967542112014-04-22T16:11:09.879+01:002014-04-22T16:11:09.879+01:00I attended Mass on Sunday in which Ms Nathan was s...I attended Mass on Sunday in which Ms Nathan was specifically denounced as a lying rabble-rouser. By name. I wrote it down but I appear to have lost the piece of paper.<br /><br />Honest.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-31442351707335447092014-04-22T16:09:53.497+01:002014-04-22T16:09:53.497+01:00Ruarie,
I disagree. If a person has a background ...Ruarie,<br /><br />I disagree. If a person has a background of professionalism and is a highly respected advocate of human rights then they comments and writings have greater weight.<br /><br />I agree that she sexual orientation is irrelevant - except to those who want to write her off because of that orientation.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-28396955612217964842014-04-22T16:07:48.325+01:002014-04-22T16:07:48.325+01:00I have been in touch with Melanie Nathan and asked...I have been in touch with Melanie Nathan and asked her to publish her source on this Blog.<br /><br />She told me that her source was a young man who attended the MassThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-39429328335188900862014-04-22T15:57:28.139+01:002014-04-22T15:57:28.139+01:00Melanie Nathan's background, history and sexua...Melanie Nathan's background, history and sexual orientation are neither here nor there, Fr Buckley.<br /><br />This is an extremely serious accusation and I have not been able to find any corroboration, link to any recording or link to any text to support her allegation. Every single reference I have followed comes back to her blog.<br /><br />Please see my comment below for how serious this is and the care with which it should be handled. The old saying 'careless talk costs lives' remains valid today.Ruarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863187619652339133noreply@blogger.com