tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post6091925571578029790..comments2024-03-12T19:57:41.861+00:00Comments on THINKING CATHOLICISM: FERNS DIOCESEThinking Catholicismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-14601243552943423442016-10-22T10:40:54.912+01:002016-10-22T10:40:54.912+01:00The Church needs to be taken to task for it's ...The Church needs to be taken to task for it's violation of human rights.janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480966555246917336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-67219262800091608912016-10-22T06:33:29.420+01:002016-10-22T06:33:29.420+01:00Not at all, I am making the point that to equate t...Not at all, I am making the point that to equate the Holocaust of the Jews, whereby millions of innocent people were murdered in the greatest act of human depravity the world has ever witnessed, is as absurd as it is monstrous. I see that Pat had still not addressed why he did this, still less apologise for this obscene comparison.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-14021035481863696132016-10-22T00:14:48.457+01:002016-10-22T00:14:48.457+01:00Agreed. I would be of the opinion that seminarians...Agreed. I would be of the opinion that seminarians are essentially vulnerable in the sense that they are dependant totally on the good will of the bishops and formators. Seminarians are powerless; trustees and formators hold an absolute hegemony; injustice is all too often the product. I use the word 'vulnerable' in its literal sense, without intent to imply the legal terminology 'vulnerable person'.<br /><br />I remember on Christmas a class gave a formators a book as a present. He opened it before everybody in Pugin Hall. The book was called 'Psychology for Dummies'. <br /><br />CR Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-8127837367538206342016-10-21T23:53:19.499+01:002016-10-21T23:53:19.499+01:00Bill.... Google is full of references
relating to ...Bill.... Google is full of references<br />relating to the Stockholm<br />syndromeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-51280278527650414222016-10-21T23:50:40.107+01:002016-10-21T23:50:40.107+01:0018.43
Maybe Tobin got inspiration For some of his ...18.43<br />Maybe Tobin got inspiration For some of his books from what he gleaned<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-69628189564813564572016-10-21T23:44:23.942+01:002016-10-21T23:44:23.942+01:0021.11 so you are trying to make light of all the v...21.11 so you are trying to make light of all the vile deeds<br />'' sexual shenanigans'<br />Tut tut<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-569529502095321062016-10-21T21:11:50.977+01:002016-10-21T21:11:50.977+01:00I had posted a much more explicit condemnation of ...I had posted a much more explicit condemnation of the equation of the Holocaust of the Jews with the antics at St Peters, but for reasons known only to himself Pat refused to post it. A really shameful thing to do Pat. To equate the mass murder of millions of men, women and children by the Nazis with the sexual shenanigans in a seminary in Ireland.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-37496864368038391872016-10-21T20:29:49.470+01:002016-10-21T20:29:49.470+01:00Thank you for that clarification.
But the same &q...Thank you for that clarification.<br /><br />But the same "regime" is in control - the Catholic diocese of Ferns.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-68939683417774055502016-10-21T20:26:27.356+01:002016-10-21T20:26:27.356+01:00Re/St Peter's College,Wexford--yes, it is sti...Re/St Peter's College,Wexford--yes, it is still a Catholic/Diocesan institution but I think the poster at 19.28 was inferring that many of the previous problematic Staff were no longer there. This is to a large extent correct. The present lay Principal is Mr O'Callaghan and there is also a lay Vice Principal. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-83599408999750251602016-10-21T19:50:49.944+01:002016-10-21T19:50:49.944+01:00Is the school notstill a catholic / diocesan insti...Is the school notstill a catholic / diocesan institution?Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-60741083065684557122016-10-21T19:45:59.387+01:002016-10-21T19:45:59.387+01:00Quite true Bill but seminary/religious relationshi...Quite true Bill but seminary/religious relationships can sometimes compromise people. C R mentioned the Stockholm Syndrome above iFly on Th Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520198020314816276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-44482281859864985902016-10-21T19:42:42.092+01:002016-10-21T19:42:42.092+01:0018 12 It's all to do with context and accounta...18 12 It's all to do with context and accountability. Seminarians sign up to be Celibate. I don't agree with mandatory celibacy but all are called to be appropriate and accountable. Student life is not just booze sex and rock n roll. Particularly if clergy are meant to live what they professFly on Th Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520198020314816276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-89869096202456559502016-10-21T19:40:29.597+01:002016-10-21T19:40:29.597+01:00I suppose from my point of view the point is relev...I suppose from my point of view the point is relevant, because are we (A) dealing with an institution which abuses vulnerable adults or (B) dealing with an institution that is devoid of natural justice? In my view it is closer to (B) and that is important because to reform or replace something, we need to identify correctly the issues. If we think we are dealing with institutions the like of which were identified in the Ferns report etc, then we will be wasting valuable time on matters which are today no longer at issue (of course those particular historical issues need to be addressed, but that is a separate topic). This is not in any way to minimise or disrespect the damage done to men in times gone by, but simply to say that to move forward today, we need to have a clear sighted understanding of the problems of today.<br /><br />I do agree, however, that from a spiritual and human point of view, the system in Maynooth is profoundly damaging. It goes back to this mistaken understanding of 'formation'. The idea that a priest goes to a seminary to 'be formed' is wrong in my opinion. I see seminary more as a place where a man goes to be equipped for mission. 'Formed' in the sense that his intellectual understanding of God is deepened, his personal relationship with the Lord deepened - yes. But 'formed' in Maynooth means a transplantation of character rather than allowing grace to build on nature. And the character that the formators wish to impose is wanting, to say the least. This, as you say, is where the pseudo-psychology is so deeply damaging both to the men who are unable to resist it, and to the priesthood generally.<br /><br />Seminarians going in today need to equip themselves with outside spiritual direction, strong networks of sound Christians to back them up and give spiritual support and friendship, and mentors formed in the doctrine of the faith to guide them through the mess that is Maynooth. With prayer, I believe that the seminary can be closed, but for now, that is what seminarians must do. And as our Lord said, to be as wise as serpents.<br /><br />TRSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-90937180649599349012016-10-21T19:37:13.064+01:002016-10-21T19:37:13.064+01:00I find content on here stimulating and I prefer to...I find content on here stimulating and I prefer to respond in short spurts. Paid work does not give me the time to research and compile my own blog. Thank you for the suggestion though. I also find the diversity of content here stimulating. Even the "idiots" and those I do not necessarily agree withFly on Th Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12520198020314816276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-44726056070538665552016-10-21T19:28:25.388+01:002016-10-21T19:28:25.388+01:00Pat, in your commentary you point out that St Pete...Pat, in your commentary you point out that St Peter's college still functions as a secondary school and that Carlow IT operates a campus on site. To be fair to both of these institutions I'm sure you would want to point out that the previous 'regime' no longer operates there. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-72058789579775139322016-10-21T19:12:41.677+01:002016-10-21T19:12:41.677+01:00Thank God 18.22 someone agrees with me about the A...Thank God 18.22 someone agrees with me about the Auschwitz statement. I already commented on it at 12.18 and 12.35 but got no satisfaction.I was amazed that no-one else had picked it up.It really shocked me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-91015009647191385212016-10-21T19:11:34.746+01:002016-10-21T19:11:34.746+01:00You appear to be unable to distinguish between und...You appear to be unable to distinguish between underlying psychological issues (which are the result of, among other things, upbringing) and the moral issues that the Maynooth situation presents. My point is that in today's world, most psychological issues that clerical students have are issues which have arisen prior to entering the seminary. If seeing two men in bed or being aware of irregular holidays causes a man to become a vulnerable adult, then yes indeed his upbringing needs to be looked into because a mature man (as every seminarian is striving to be) ought to be capable of being aware of such issues without having a psychological collapse. As the question is one of psychology, there is no clear-cut answer so people can legitimately have different views on the issue.<br /><br />I really have no idea what relevance being a parent or not has to do with that analysis.<br /><br />Self-evidently, a seminarian ought to be bothered about sexual impropriety. He ought to object to irregular holidays. In my view, these are profoundly wrong behaviours for seminarians, yet that is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether a seminary experience today causes a person to become psychologically vulnerable.<br /><br />I note your use of the term "nancy man" and I find it deeply objectionable. The particular situation described is objectively wrong, but labelling a gay man as a "nancy man" is a form of behaviour that is unChristian. The Church teaches that Catholics (and others) who are same-sex attracted are to be treated with respect, and you have failed to accord that respect to those people, regardless of the particular situation you are discussing.<br /><br />TRSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-44596823702975654142016-10-21T18:59:58.243+01:002016-10-21T18:59:58.243+01:00I would like to read more CR, can you give us some...I would like to read more CR, can you give us some references to some of these articles please.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-20554412213029155622016-10-21T18:57:20.936+01:002016-10-21T18:57:20.936+01:00I think caution should be exercised in the use of ...I think caution should be exercised in the use of the term 'vulnerable adult'; in recent years this phrase has been given a statutory definition and relates to persons whose vulnerability arises from disability, age or illness; and is or may be unable to take care of themselves or unable to protect themselves against significant harm or exploitation.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-49816099605565791732016-10-21T18:56:52.917+01:002016-10-21T18:56:52.917+01:00Speaking from the point of view of someone who rec...Speaking from the point of view of someone who recently was in maynooth I agree that there is undue emphasis on psychology, as you pointed out. That is because all formators in Maynooth study psychology for 1 year in order to qualify as a formators. I think it to be a rubbish course based on what I saw.<br /><br />But it is precisely this emphasis on pseudo-psychology that allows formators play with peoples minds. The process is designed to break people down and form them mentally into priests. The problem is the formators all too often break seminarians down and then don't know how to put them back together. <br /><br />Whether we call that making people vulnerable, damaging people or breaking people is irrelevant. It is simply wrong because of the harm it does on the human level and the neglect to the spiritual formation. <br /><br />Maynooth of yesterday and maynooth of today both damage people in their respective ways. Neither generation has a right to disregard the harm done to the other. <br /><br />And I will agree, there is no spiritual formation in Maynooth. None.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-20721919298829566202016-10-21T18:43:47.575+01:002016-10-21T18:43:47.575+01:00Maybe Collins just didn't "fancy" To...Maybe Collins just didn't "fancy" Tobin and so he was safe from danger and attack?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-27043147557296972072016-10-21T18:28:10.349+01:002016-10-21T18:28:10.349+01:00Profoundly saddened by the vile, evil, disgraceful...Profoundly saddened by the vile, evil, disgraceful and criminal activities described in these and earlier contributions.<br />Nevertheless, my faith and trust in God and in the priest in charge of my Parish are unshakeable.<br />There is - I hope - some hope of restoring confidence to those who are - rightly - shocked at the scandals revealed here!<br />God is still in charge - trust Him - and the many good priests who serve Him faithfully.<br />Been a while since I have contributed anything.<br />Have to admit that my two budgies, Chip, my dog and indeed, myself are suffering from exponential fits of depression at all the negativity described.<br />We, all four of us, - are recovering! Christus vincit!!!<br />Pip<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-23475875841124647392016-10-21T18:22:36.988+01:002016-10-21T18:22:36.988+01:00I see that there is no free speech on this blog, i...I see that there is no free speech on this blog, in spite of what you so often repeat that this is a forum for debate and discussion. You have not posted by comment about your disgraceful equating of the Holocaust of the Jewish People in Auschwitz / Birkenhau. That says it all really.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-90849580523564867682016-10-21T18:12:31.826+01:002016-10-21T18:12:31.826+01:00If someone today claims that they are vulnerable b... If someone today claims that they are vulnerable because of their seminary experience, I would really have to wonder what sort of upbringing they have had.<br /><<<<<>>>>>><br />Can believe that a real person wrote that....wondering about how some young fella is brought up, you definitely not a parent.no parent would write that.<br />So a modern day student shouldn't be bothered about 2 men in bed, or another being brought on holiday by a nancy man.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-49297846143054100222016-10-21T16:49:54.982+01:002016-10-21T16:49:54.982+01:00And only our Pat trying to keep us reminded
Sean...And only our Pat trying to keep us reminded<br />Sean why don't you write articles for publication too<br />Tried to read you other bloggers here but not allowedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com