tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post8333430616037391433..comments2024-03-12T19:57:41.861+00:00Comments on THINKING CATHOLICISM: AN INDEPENDENT CATHOLIC CHURCH 11Thinking Catholicismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-79759418181878425682017-05-29T23:25:49.091+01:002017-05-29T23:25:49.091+01:00Not at all! 'Don't be distressed. Jesus on...Not at all! 'Don't be distressed. Jesus only founded one Church I think you'll find. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-29819108577548641292017-05-14T00:38:35.376+01:002017-05-14T00:38:35.376+01:00Why delete? I thought the idea of the ICC was to ...Why delete? I thought the idea of the ICC was to permit free debate? <br /><br />It is difficult to take a campaign seriously if the only fault it finds with men is that they have not followed official Catholic doctrine. That places them in common cause with most Catholics worldwide, and indeed Bishop Pat for most of his ministry.<br /><br />If the Maynooth campaign is to have intellectual credibility, rather than juicy gossip, these issues need urgent clarification.<br /><br />Perhaps it would be a first start in developing a moral theology for the ICC...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-51654283883258644852017-05-14T00:18:40.007+01:002017-05-14T00:18:40.007+01:00Pat you lifted this article on 'presbyter'...Pat you lifted this article on 'presbyter' out of Wikipedia without making any reference to your source.<br /><br />Where you cut and past material from other authors will you please reference these. It will help readers to make a judgement on the credibility or standing of the material you lift.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-12281182600717369402017-05-14T00:15:32.241+01:002017-05-14T00:15:32.241+01:00The ICC will not have the same teachings, doctrine...The ICC will not have the same teachings, doctrines and demands of the RCC.<br /><br />DeleteThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-26017382212047459562017-05-14T00:04:18.399+01:002017-05-14T00:04:18.399+01:00Isn't it hypocritical to hold the seminarians ...Isn't it hypocritical to hold the seminarians to standards you don't believe in? Essentially what you're saying is that there is nothing the seminarians have done which is objectively wrong. But their crime has been to remain in the religion they were brought up in. And to behave in a way we are told is perfectly acceptable in the Independent Catholic Church.<br /><br />Given all that, what exactly is the purpose of the campaign being pursued by this blog?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-10573041883754724692017-05-13T23:22:45.501+01:002017-05-13T23:22:45.501+01:00The Maynooth seminarians are in the RC Church and ...The Maynooth seminarians are in the RC Church and not the ICC.<br /> The ICC proposes optional celibacy, the RC Church mandates (or rather, forbids man dates ;-) ) celibacy.<br /><br /> Whether it be intrinsic or due to psychiatric pathology, some people, including to date, myself, have profound difficulty holding down a one to one relationship yet still experience sexual feelings that they may wish to express in a mutual encounter. <br /> This is why I hope the ICC will generally be happy to adopt "The only sexual act that is sinful is one that uses or abuses." The arbiter of this is essentially the parties involved and within that, levels of use and / or abuse. The most severe may have crossed into illegality and be subject to criminal prosecution, the lighter may leave one or other parties feeling unwholesome, which the church may be able to assist healing by it's counsel and / or referral to medical or other services. One size doesn't fit all. What may be sinful for one, may not be for another. We are not being fed milk anymore.Tom Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10935856847562775913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-26958728451565499152017-05-13T22:48:26.680+01:002017-05-13T22:48:26.680+01:00Ah. Jasis, not another feckin religion.
n.Ah. Jasis, not another feckin religion.<br />n.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-54378521917807288772017-05-13T21:52:57.895+01:002017-05-13T21:52:57.895+01:00Apologies for the "self correction" devi...Apologies for the "self correction" device on my phn causing a couple of typos in my post. I intended to write "too vague" and the word "abolished" Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-42503946969646517772017-05-13T21:47:15.154+01:002017-05-13T21:47:15.154+01:00The above definition would be far to vague and ope...The above definition would be far to vague and open to ambiguity and misinterpretation. This is because with the old guidances and certainties abolushed, one person's idea or judgement of what constituted "an abuse" or a "misuse" could be vastly different from another's etc. Once you remove the moral compass, people can debate and argue their way out of anything, claiming that they have no problem with it and didn't realise anyone else would find the issue or action in question to be objectionable. That is why statements like that make such bad law. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-25143042639252560492017-05-13T21:27:19.280+01:002017-05-13T21:27:19.280+01:00I'm not arguing in favour of the teaching. I ...I'm not arguing in favour of the teaching. I don't agree with it. <br /><br />But the theology you are proposing argues for one rule for seminarians and a different rule for other laity. It isn't intellectually sustainable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-58871054532764886262017-05-13T21:24:08.717+01:002017-05-13T21:24:08.717+01:00That is certainly the teaching of the RC church.
...That is certainly the teaching of the RC church.<br /><br />Of course we distinguish between objective and subjective morality.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-20318980085623613812017-05-13T21:20:44.792+01:002017-05-13T21:20:44.792+01:00But every single Mass going Catholic is supposed t...But every single Mass going Catholic is supposed to be committed to chastity appropriate to their state in life. Is that bearing false witness too? So is any Catholic who receives Communion but hasn't declared publicly that they have had gay sex or straight sex outside marriage in the same category as those seminarians? Because that is the logic of your argument. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-59891757104409722152017-05-13T21:13:45.280+01:002017-05-13T21:13:45.280+01:00Time soon for a well placed advert in the Irish Ca...Time soon for a well placed advert in the Irish Catholic maybe there could be a possibility of a story for them to shaee across the land. It certainly would be better than the teash they normally write.<br />Still getting distracted by Maynooth. Big Hankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937603095036374725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-53415083692406386272017-05-13T21:01:29.197+01:002017-05-13T21:01:29.197+01:00No.
But EVERY seninarian there were supposed to c...No.<br /><br />But EVERY seninarian there were supposed to cimmitted to and living celibacy. In not doing so they were living a lie.<br /><br />Is that not "bearing false witness"?<br /><br />That gulf between the ideal and the real is ultimately bridged by Christ.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-17340763249113254692017-05-13T20:55:01.236+01:002017-05-13T20:55:01.236+01:00So each and every seminarian who had sex with anot...So each and every seminarian who had sex with another man was abusive to straight and celibate seminarians? In what way? Genuinely mystified.<br /><br />I agree on your view of the Christian ideal. But I note your use of the word ideal...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-39355070021991472262017-05-13T20:49:45.361+01:002017-05-13T20:49:45.361+01:00Were the Maynooth Gay Community not abusive to str...Were the Maynooth Gay Community not abusive to straight seminarians and celibate seminarians?<br /><br />I do think the Christian ideal is one to one love and not promiscuity.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-43941914094399833742017-05-13T20:42:22.165+01:002017-05-13T20:42:22.165+01:00Sexual Theology of the ICC:
"The only sexual...Sexual Theology of the ICC:<br /><br />"The only sexual act that is sinful is the one that uses or abuses."<br /><br />So that the is Maynooth seminarians off the hook then (leaving the fairly doubtful incident in Bray aside)...<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-22710325138546374282017-05-13T20:34:52.082+01:002017-05-13T20:34:52.082+01:00In the brave new world of "Animal Farm" ...In the brave new world of "Animal Farm" all were to be equal, wasn't that it? (But of course some were more equal than others!!) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-71124528862935365192017-05-13T20:10:09.733+01:002017-05-13T20:10:09.733+01:00I first ordained a woman 19 years ago!I first ordained a woman 19 years ago!Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-3768571112390386492017-05-13T20:09:52.121+01:002017-05-13T20:09:52.121+01:00Well a good number of them in the RC church have b...Well a good number of them in the RC church have been child abuse enablers.<br />What's the Latin for that?<br />ZeroTimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15617639371450251620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-40534011968385612632017-05-13T20:09:36.357+01:002017-05-13T20:09:36.357+01:00Yes.Yes.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-6256699546144444232017-05-13T20:01:26.725+01:002017-05-13T20:01:26.725+01:00So just to be clear the girls should they wish pla...So just to be clear the girls should they wish play a roll in whatever level of the IICC ??Big Hankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937603095036374725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-12624861262210018822017-05-13T18:49:27.179+01:002017-05-13T18:49:27.179+01:00I think that given the extensive history of bishop...I think that given the extensive history of bishops, it is synonymous with pomp and authority. We can't eradicate that history and so any continued use of the term inevitably conjures up those images.<br /><br />A Presbyterian moderator is not presiding, he simply chairs proceedings as it were. Though I quite like their system, as it preserves Church coherence, whereas the congregational model is a mishmash.<br /><br />The whole concept of distinguishing the office of priest and bishop, with its false theology, has to be done away with. Moreover, the idea that one individual is presiding has to disappear. A Priest Overseer looks after a congregation or a number of congregations, but must never be in a position where he has any elevated position over another Priest, whether in title or in fact. Any all Priest Overseers are subject to the authority of the congregation acting in general meeting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-10562940846934628102017-05-13T18:39:09.055+01:002017-05-13T18:39:09.055+01:00Maybe we need a new definition if bishop?Maybe we need a new definition if bishop?Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-23658955567884924912017-05-13T18:37:18.537+01:002017-05-13T18:37:18.537+01:00You make a lot of good points.
And maybe it does ...You make a lot of good points.<br /><br />And maybe it does not matter if it is one community / congregation.<br /><br />But if you have a group of communities as part of an entity then the bishop is perhaps the presiding / overseeing presbyter of the group.<br /><br />I suppise the Presbyterians have solved this by bring the different presbyters together in the presbytery and calling their presiding elder the "moderator"?<br /><br />I agree that bishops have given the episcopate a very bad name historically.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.com