tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post8350652865596129432..comments2024-03-12T19:57:41.861+00:00Comments on THINKING CATHOLICISM: IS THE CATHOLIC PRIESTHOOD A PREDOMINANTLY GAY PROFESSION IN 2013?Thinking Catholicismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-67099179586078446432014-12-27T10:44:25.135+00:002014-12-27T10:44:25.135+00:00Bishop Buckley you seem like a great and brave bis...Bishop Buckley you seem like a great and brave bishop. I hope you continue to pursue a path of openness in the catholic church to show the world that it is full of kind and honorable men like yourself. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-10901973171793216982013-11-25T15:54:27.154+00:002013-11-25T15:54:27.154+00:00it is big issue about gay priest, from church trad...it is big issue about gay priest, from church tradition, it is hard to accept itAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07982084063161052696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-25521239744732658642013-08-03T09:41:31.248+01:002013-08-03T09:41:31.248+01:00Thank you for your comment.
You are never too old...Thank you for your comment.<br /><br />You are never too old to find happiness.<br /><br />Would you to willing to embrace it?<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-77215968818449239312013-08-03T00:19:31.881+01:002013-08-03T00:19:31.881+01:00I am not a prisoner of my sexuality like men young...I am not a prisoner of my sexuality like men younger than myself although I write about being a prisoner in the celibate sense, I did not know what a lifetime of celibacy would mean at the age of 23! It is criminal to ask someone so young to deny who they are, just wrong and dangerous!<br /><br />But who is listening!<br /><br />An older and unhappy celibate.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-62726627952689090152013-08-02T20:47:52.390+01:002013-08-02T20:47:52.390+01:00I believe sexual orientation will become less impo...I believe sexual orientation will become less important beyond the grave for there their is neither male nor female. Spiritual growth I believe is eternal for we can never understand or comprehend the fullness of God. Heaven is definately not sitting on a cloud eating Philidelphia spread. James WELL DONE for putting your name in print. God bless you on your search for peace and meaning. Please remember that the ideal Church is not a hierarchy but a round table-a bit like King Arthur and his Knights(&Ladies) Priesthood is primarily an exercise of service. This service is built on the Royal Priesthood of all the faithful which we share through Baptismroscommonmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08748800697962234196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-44978347785631880702013-08-02T19:43:28.186+01:002013-08-02T19:43:28.186+01:00I have no reason to make any excuses for Noel - bu...I have no reason to make any excuses for Noel - but he did not ask to come to D&C. Neither did poor old Philbin.<br /><br />The problem is really with the people making the appointments.<br /><br />I do think that Noel would be better suited to am admin/desk position. But I don't know if the Vatican care about D&C. <br /><br />Is Timmy the warm and cuddly type?<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-51168407797942782012013-08-02T19:15:03.505+01:002013-08-02T19:15:03.505+01:00Pat, I noted your earlier question about our bish...Pat, I noted your earlier question about our bishop Noel lacking warmth. He does. Stories are now coming in thick and fast from all points of Antrim and Down which would suggest that this man is a cold fish and seems to feel a little above the rest of us. I have no doubt that as a political operator he is probably very skilled. I know he is a talented linguist but as a pastoral bishop in Belfast? Ummmm....!! It seems the Vatican has a much shorter memory than it is given credit for. We have had a similar situation before when Willie Philbin, a professor from Maynooth and a native of Clonfert diocese was parachuted into D&C when there were a number of very suitable candidates to fill Danny Mageean's purple carpet slippers. The more it becomes obvious to the Vatican that Noel is a square peg in a round hole and has little if any time for the common joes and janes of his diocese the more their problem is compounded because he has now missed the plum job. Armagh. Perhaps he could be swept away to Rome to work in some department which requires mandarins of ability but little personality or social skill. If that happens then the way would be clear. Arise, The Most Reverend Timothy Bartlett DDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-73324606507262032792013-08-02T19:02:34.186+01:002013-08-02T19:02:34.186+01:00Thats a profound, sad and true commentThats a profound, sad and true commentThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-18564336224143738122013-08-02T18:53:36.967+01:002013-08-02T18:53:36.967+01:00The Roman Catholic priesthood is a predominantly c...The Roman Catholic priesthood is a predominantly closeted and sexually active gay profession. Their physical intercourse breaks their public agreement of total sexual continence with the faithful, who support them financially. This constitutes professional fraud. Their illicit sexual activity also opens them to blackmail and manipulation from sexual predators, so fellow priests and church hierarchy end up passively and often actively enabling these predators and turning their backs on survivors and their families.John Shusterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05372762314771073362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-66966590547430721712013-08-02T17:45:44.324+01:002013-08-02T17:45:44.324+01:00You hit the nail on the head.
Take Holy Orders fo...You hit the nail on the head.<br /><br />Take Holy Orders for instance.<br /><br />Canon Law says that you have to be a male to receive Holy Orders.<br /><br />But Sacraments primarily impart Grace to the soul.<br /><br />Currently our souls are encased temporarily in our human body.<br /><br />Souls do not have a penis or a vagina.<br /><br />How can a decent theology argue that the soul's presence in a female body prevents the grace of Holy Orders making its way to the soul?<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-33090567527222872412013-08-02T17:41:25.528+01:002013-08-02T17:41:25.528+01:00I think that Francis is right. Given that sexual o...I think that Francis is right. Given that sexual orientation is innate and that we are all, in theological terms, children of God, to deny access to some sacraments based on sexuality is as wrong as denying access to some sacraments based on race or gender.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-79638319225661170862013-08-02T17:32:49.660+01:002013-08-02T17:32:49.660+01:00I'm glad you are sensual, physical, erotic.
...I'm glad you are sensual, physical, erotic. <br /><br />If you were not you would be either a dead corpse or a living corpse.<br /><br />I'm sure you know celibate living corpses.<br /><br />Find someone who can help you to move beyond fantasy - it can be done.<br /><br />Social relationships are not enough. Every human being needs intimacy. <br /><br />Pray for change and pray yourself into changing yourself.<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-3372381460716483052013-08-02T17:29:15.010+01:002013-08-02T17:29:15.010+01:00Dear Gay Priest - D & C
Thank you for your co...Dear Gay Priest - D & C<br /><br />Thank you for your comment. It can only be helpful.<br /><br />Perhaps there is a considerable cost for freeing yourself.<br /><br />But you don't have to walk away from everything. Be yourself - even privately and by your compassion for others people will see that your compassion comes from being in touch with your own humanity. Be gentle. Be kind. Be "powerless". <br /><br />Allow similiar brother priests and even the people you serve minister to you too.<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-85075623679226818422013-08-02T16:32:16.047+01:002013-08-02T16:32:16.047+01:00A very touching story indeed. Your relative must h...A very touching story indeed. Your relative must have been a great man indeed. Like your relaitve I serve, I am gay and have never told a soul, even though I know my parents suspected ever since I was a boy. Parents are great, they know more than we understand at times.<br /><br />There are things coming from me that I felt I wanted to talk about. My search for my own blend of spirituality, my acknowledgement of my sexuality, my being a man first and then a priest.<br /><br />Perhaps Francis is making it easier for us to be free from this assault on human sexuality and God given freedom!<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-66704953453047428032013-08-02T16:23:17.510+01:002013-08-02T16:23:17.510+01:00As a celibate I am sensual and very physical. I...As a celibate I am sensual and very physical. I'm very erotic. But it is very sad because it is not real, I bring it to the spiritual level, but the spiritual makes me even more sensual.<br /> <br />My sexuality exists on a sort of a fantasy level, I know this as fact and I am very, very sad about it. I refuse to drink or compensate at any other level, I simply live sexuality through social relationship, always in secret because I am not supposed to be sexual!<br /><br />I pray for change!<br /><br />Celibate<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-30806629231900456002013-08-02T16:16:04.790+01:002013-08-02T16:16:04.790+01:00If repression has indeed been the fundamental link...If repression has indeed been the fundamental link between power, knowledge, and sexuality since the classical age, it stands to reason that we will not be able to free ourselves from it except at a considerable cost.<br /><br />Gay Priest - D & C <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-58672140250710369662013-08-02T15:54:09.319+01:002013-08-02T15:54:09.319+01:00The story of your priest relative is most touching...The story of your priest relative is most touching.<br /><br />It proves that there always have been, still are and always will be good, holy, kind, loving gay priests.<br /><br />The funeral Mass in Scotland sounds truly wonderful.<br /><br />I have been at Down & Connor priest funerals and I was touched by the priests singing the Office for the Dead for the deceased priest. <br /><br />But I get your point about the whole presbyterate gathering and con-celebrating and the profound significance of that.<br /><br />I cannot see Noel talking to the English bishops about that topic.<br /><br />Do you not think that poor Noel has a problem with warmth generally. God or nature has not gifted him with a warm personality. If he cannot be warm about the living its hard to see him getting all warm about the dead.<br /><br />But maybe if he reads your comment it might make him think.<br /><br />Thank you.<br /><br />PatThinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-31873565605224677452013-08-02T14:49:37.777+01:002013-08-02T14:49:37.777+01:00A couple of years ago an in law of our family, a p...A couple of years ago an in law of our family, a priest in Glasgow, died. I have no doubt that he was gay. He more or less told me so but he was a lovely, caring man and a very devoted and hardworking priest who was held in high esteem. That was evident at his funeral. The church was filled to overflowing, the liturgy was beautiful and the choir was magnificent. What made a lasting impression on me was that at his funeral mass over a hundred priests all vested identically in matching chasubles were on the sanctuary concelebrating the mass with the bishop as the presider. It must have given his family a great sense of pride to have witnessed such a great spectacle. At the end of mass all the priests gathered at the bottom of the altar steps in a semi circle around the coffin as the bishop said the prayers of commendation. It was a great act of unity, bishop and members of the presbytery saying farewell collectively to a brother priest. Some months later I attended the funeral of one of our own priests in Down and Connor. In the sanctuary were 3 bishops and half a dozen priests. All the other clergy were sitting in choir dress like overgrown altar boys watching on. It was as if the local hierarchy were saying" We are in charge here and we will run the show the way we want to and you boys will just sit down there and spectate" Surely gathering around the Lord's table at the breaking of bread and celebrating the eucharist is the greatest prayer we can offer especially for the repose of someone soul. Could I suggest that Noel has a wee chat with mainland bishops and get some advice as to how things should be done..... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-47223132285794855282013-08-02T14:31:24.565+01:002013-08-02T14:31:24.565+01:00Dear James,
Thank you for your comment and thank ...Dear James,<br /><br />Thank you for your comment and thank you especially for having the openness and integrity in putting your name to it.<br /><br />You are so right to say that grappling with one's spirituality and sexuality ends at death.<br /><br />In fact the "grappling" you refer to is a very noble endeavour - the endeavour to integrate one's sexuality and spirituality.<br /><br />Those who achieve this integration go on to have a very mature and wise sexuality and spirituality.<br /><br />Those who fail this integration very often live a life that is overshadowed by the failure to integrate them both and very often they end up with a spiritual/sexual schitzophrenia - a schitzophrenia that can even contribute to things like sexual abuse; alcoholicism; drug addiction; gambling or the abuse of power.<br /><br />God wants integrated people for the priesthood.<br /><br />For a broader discussion on this you could see my book A SEXUAL LIFE - A SPIRITUAL LIFE published in 2005 by Liffer Press, Dublin.<br /><br />O - and God may still be calling you to the priesthood.<br /><br />Bishop Pat Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-24680863701452282912013-08-02T14:28:03.759+01:002013-08-02T14:28:03.759+01:00During a media interview while returning from Rio ...During a media interview while returning from Rio to Rome, the pope was asked about the gay lobby in the Vatican. He responded, “There’s a lot of talk about the gay lobby, but I’ve never seen it on the Vatican ID card!”<br /><br />He continued, “When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalised. The tendency [to homosexuality] is not the problem. ... They’re our brothers.”<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-71316292537160771102013-08-02T14:18:34.294+01:002013-08-02T14:18:34.294+01:00One cannot escape the harsh fact that as a ministe...One cannot escape the harsh fact that as a ministerial profession, the priesthood has very serious problems. They are not new. They did not develop yesterday or last year.<br /><br />Andrew Greeley <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-75592762072218810792013-08-02T14:18:04.166+01:002013-08-02T14:18:04.166+01:00At different points in my life, I had grappled wit...At different points in my life, I had grappled with the idea of going into the priesthood - in high school or law school. Where it ends, I'm not quite sure. Perhaps it ends with death, grappling with one's spirituality and sexuality.<br /><br />James McGreevey <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-22349461856724433262013-08-02T13:53:48.688+01:002013-08-02T13:53:48.688+01:00As a gay Catholic I only go to mass in certain cha...As a gay Catholic I only go to mass in certain chapels, if you know what I mean. I do not 'out' men at all, but they are lovely and caring. It is well known who they are and they would have our support in the gay community if they needed it.<br /><br />Love <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-57411830489321521882013-08-02T13:45:48.785+01:002013-08-02T13:45:48.785+01:00Is Priesthood a Vocation, Profession or a bit of b...Is Priesthood a Vocation, Profession or a bit of both. I certainly agree that priesthood has been a route to up the social ladder particularily in the past in Ireland. Rich families sons staid in Ireland and poor families sons went on the missions. A 2 teir class distinction because poorer families could not afford the tuition fees. Now Christian (including RC) churches are thriving in third world. This 2 brings social status. Like in the Bible good Prophets are needed to keep the modern "wandering Arameans" on the strait & narrow. To identify sexual orientation with a particular profession I believe is stereotyping and over emphasising this misses the point...Now what was the point in the first place? Seanroscommonmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08748800697962234196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-19169057802022923482013-08-02T13:41:04.276+01:002013-08-02T13:41:04.276+01:00Sinful, but all to typical! FOr a bunch of well ed...Sinful, but all to typical! FOr a bunch of well educated men they sure are a bunch of cowards. I do not want to insult, bu they all know the truth of it. Stand up and the people will support you.<br /><br />Being a straight or homosexual priest is actually ok, it is the dishonesty that is corrupt and corrupting! Be brave and fight the clerical club.<br /><br />My opinion again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com