tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post9109785834745072880..comments2024-03-12T19:57:41.861+00:00Comments on THINKING CATHOLICISM: THE DESTRUCTION OF A DIOCESE FROM WITHINThinking Catholicismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-85962408155455799942015-01-23T21:51:58.365+00:002015-01-23T21:51:58.365+00:00When I was in Corpus Christi parish Stechford Birm...When I was in Corpus Christi parish Stechford Birmingham my P P Frank Dudley told me he could not understand the logic of many concelebrants at a funeral. When I came to Sligo it was all hands on deck for each and every one. Peoples importance was often measured by "the number of priests on the altar" Seanroscommonmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08748800697962234196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-74620433132971794042015-01-21T21:28:52.629+00:002015-01-21T21:28:52.629+00:00To3tally agree. An experience with a RC priest wa...To3tally agree. An experience with a RC priest was also the catalyst for me. Caused me to question everything about my faith and to come to the realisation that I did not want to worship a 'Catholic' God!! There is no recognition of the harm these so-called shepherds do and a big part of the RC problem is that they just ignore the wounded sheep which further alienates them. There should be a much more effective vetting process for men joining the priesthood - better to have no priest than one that causes such harm. <br />Saddened previous R&C ParishionerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-83784751307127370152015-01-21T17:46:23.419+00:002015-01-21T17:46:23.419+00:00The blogger has wondered you mean.The blogger has wondered you mean.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-70348315674690182212015-01-21T15:12:51.170+00:002015-01-21T15:12:51.170+00:00While I can see that many of the blogs have wander...While I can see that many of the blogs have wandered away from the main thread-the slow but steady demise of D&C diocese- I acknowledge that many of the contributors have indicated what urged them on to be part of the circa 80% who have said enough is enough. I can see what the bishop is trying to do. He and his inner circle are trying to apply a simple business model of rationalisation of resources in order to achieve economies of scale. That works when you have management who have the respect of employees and have authority to order them to follow the new path being laid down. However when the bosses don't enjoy the respect of the workers( priests) and have no authority over the punters(parishioners) then the whole exercise is doomed to failure. Somewhere down the road a scapegoat will be sacrificed for the failure. Good job whizz is away to Derry. LolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-62044864370441558192015-01-21T14:12:27.437+00:002015-01-21T14:12:27.437+00:00I think that the People of Good should choose thei...I think that the People of Good should choose their pastor. But also the people need prayerful leadership to come to an understanding that a good pastor does not need to have male genitals!Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-29983142451184052812015-01-21T14:09:40.438+00:002015-01-21T14:09:40.438+00:00Thank you for acknowledging that. I do care about ...Thank you for acknowledging that. I do care about Christ's Church - even and especially the part of it that is "RC".<br /><br />At the same time I reserve the right to be highly critical of those in it who are faithless, cynical and downright nasty. <br /><br />I cannot understand Noel Treanor. But it seems to me that he is not a PASTOR. If a bishop is not at heart a pastor then things become very sad and scary.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-85821115936207844142015-01-21T13:45:17.765+00:002015-01-21T13:45:17.765+00:00I know that C of E in Manchester Is looking at how...I know that C of E in Manchester Is looking at how parishes work and at a way of best using resources to hand. R C in Ireland can call the structures what they like but is the relationship with the people and credibility with the people that needs working on. In our (RC) parish there is a married Anglican Priest who is now R C. I have never met the man. Seems to me the local padre is keeping him quiet. The Main man is in the local paper at every opportunity. No sign of No 2 son. I also know that C o E recognises my ordination as valid but if an Anglican priest becomes R C he has to be re ordained. That being said I am aware there is an Anglican parish in Manchester that has passed a resolution not to have women vicars. Seanroscommonmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08748800697962234196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-69248074552084966542015-01-21T13:45:14.444+00:002015-01-21T13:45:14.444+00:00Dear Pat,
I want to acknowledge the fact that you...Dear Pat,<br /><br />I want to acknowledge the fact that you do care about the church, and the Priests who serve in it. Sadly I do not sense that genuine concern or compassion in Bishop Treanor, whose life more & more resembles that of a wealthy CEO, cut off physically & emotionally from his "workforce & customers". Such a situation never ends well !<br /><br />Priest of Down & Connor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-43044851784877849592015-01-20T23:03:20.400+00:002015-01-20T23:03:20.400+00:00When I read here of peoples' turning away from...When I read here of peoples' turning away from catholicism it often seems to reflect negative experience from an RC cleric. Isn't it somewhere in the new testament, "By their deeds or fruits you shall know them"?<br />One such negative experience was certainly a catalyst for me.<br />He was the typical inner city PP in 1978.Still following my cradle catholic upbringing, having been away all day on a trip I went to his Sunday night mass where his sermon was the greatest load of sh$$e I'd ever heard.<br />I went round to vestry afterwards and asked, very politely I assure you, if he could clarify or explain. (Can't for the life of me remember either his sermon or my queries!)<br />But I can certainly remember his tirade of personal abuse that I should dare to question him!<br />It came as a shock, for at that time I was used to going to the university chaplaincy where the Jesuit chaplain encouraged we students in regular debates.<br />So began my drift away.<br />So you "oul PPs and CCs" out there still living in the delusion that you will automatically be given deference, while that may have been true 50 years ago, it certainly isn't with today's more educated questioning younger people who simply vote with their feet.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-37373763351313970162015-01-20T21:09:13.074+00:002015-01-20T21:09:13.074+00:00I am truly sorry for everything you suffered and t...I am truly sorry for everything you suffered and totally understand you being delighted that those who hurt you are experiencing "karma" of some kind.<br /><br />I hope your wounds are healing?Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-1711716915547660032015-01-20T19:24:46.398+00:002015-01-20T19:24:46.398+00:00That parish priest seems to come from the same sch...That parish priest seems to come from the same school of thinking as a parish priest who refused the burial of a local parishioner in our parish in the 50's because the poor soul took his own life due to depression. He left a wife and six young children. The shame felt by the widow and her young family, some of whom were taunted in the school playground about their fathers funeral,left a terrible mental and emotional scar on the young mother. She became a recluse and turning to alcohol lasted a mere 5 years after her husband before dying. When I see many of the clergy in this diocese being exposed for the hypocrisy they are guilty of and see that over 80% of people have cottoned on to all their crap and nonsense I am filled with delight. I was the second youngest of that poor family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-34581972650154699112015-01-20T18:24:59.940+00:002015-01-20T18:24:59.940+00:00I care because its hurting many good people and ma...I care because its hurting many good people and making some very good priests I know more unhappy than before.<br /><br />Is it wrong to care?Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-87610510890471484922015-01-20T18:21:55.824+00:002015-01-20T18:21:55.824+00:00What a woman of principle - especially in those da...What a woman of principle - especially in those days. Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-58192271452894338452015-01-20T17:30:29.703+00:002015-01-20T17:30:29.703+00:00As an independent why do you care??As an independent why do you care??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-57410019105067474212015-01-20T16:57:23.961+00:002015-01-20T16:57:23.961+00:00My mother often commented on this foul and unfair ...My mother often commented on this foul and unfair system of funeral offerings. She was a native of rural Donegal where the PP would pronounce the funeral offerings at mass beginning with the local doctor,business types, Garda sergeant followed by all the other minions. She often said she was sickened by one particular funeral where the deceased was the father of a large but impoverished family the youngest of whom was but a baby in arms. There was a " big offering" which was promptly trousered by the PP. After a few days my mother and her sister went to see the PP to see if it would be possible to get some financial help for the poor widow and her children. Help was declined. My mother was so incensed by the lack of charity of the priest that she gave him his character and from that day never entered a Catholic church againAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-37710369908859918482015-01-20T15:53:27.817+00:002015-01-20T15:53:27.817+00:00M,
My parents told me of these pulpit announcemen...M,<br /><br />My parents told me of these pulpit announcements as they grew up in Meath diocese.<br /><br />It would have been forgivable if these funeral "offerings" were passed on to poor grieving families to cover funeral expenses. But instead old PPs ran with canvas bags full of money to the parochial house. <br /><br />Funerals were graded by the size of the "offerings".<br /><br />Hopefully the 84% departures are the administration of natural justice?<br /><br />But still 16% of turkeys are voting for Christmas :-(<br /><br />As a musician friend of mine says: "The bishop's bum boys" :-)Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-77988170344029973342015-01-20T15:32:29.502+00:002015-01-20T15:32:29.502+00:00And no doubt all these warring factions determined...And no doubt all these warring factions determined to maintain their tiny grip on "power" believe that they are good holy christians! The dichotomy of it all!<br />I saw so much of this when growing up a cradle catholic in a small town business community, where some of the most unkind and uncharitable public worthies were "pillars" of the RC church establishment. On every parish committee going and stuffed full of their own importance. And of course, "Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" between them and the oul PP. We had a couple of decent kind curates over the years but they never seemed to stay very long and had no say in parish affairs.<br />Do any of you remember the monthly reading out from the pulpit at mass the parishoners' contributions "to the church"? As a child I could never understand why they paid the monthly Jews, and why the read out always started with the GP and hotel owners' £1, then went down through the ten shilling contributions etc. Reading out contributions at funerals was another status marker.<br />Does any of that public oneupmanship still continue?<br /><br />MMMichael Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-66147385878853945352015-01-20T14:43:04.761+00:002015-01-20T14:43:04.761+00:00Now Father! Language please. Now Father! Language please. Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-90795685126296936452015-01-20T13:50:51.440+00:002015-01-20T13:50:51.440+00:00I know of many examples like the one described con...I know of many examples like the one described concerning the integration of attendees at different masses. I would say Bishop Treanor will have his work cut out especially if he tries to get co- operation between the various parish "professionals. As a former PP in a parish full of those in "the professions" my heart was near broken and nerves on end as I was being told how to run the parish. Often matters became heated and I was never as glad to get a change. I know my successor felt the same way after a few months. God alone knows what problems lie ahead for those involved in trying to form these new pastoral areas. Good luck. Retired PP ArmaghAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-86979691462203185082015-01-20T13:38:38.875+00:002015-01-20T13:38:38.875+00:00What the £$%£ are you talking about? You can't...What the £$%£ are you talking about? You can't even spell Rasharkin!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-6276996631206261662015-01-20T13:02:38.294+00:002015-01-20T13:02:38.294+00:00I'm glad I read your blog today. I need cheeri...I'm glad I read your blog today. I need cheering up. I had the biggest laugh of the year so far when I read the anonymous contribution extolling the virtues of parish co operation. Let me give him or her a dose of reality. Out priest decided to reduce the number of Sunday mass from 3 to 2. This meant that those used to attending the " middle" mass had to choose one of the other services to attend. The fun began when they tried sitting in their " usual " seats at the other masses to the consternation and anger of those who normally occupied them. There was pushing,shoving,dirty looks and bad bad feeling between worshippers. But all of this was nothing compared with the war which erupted between the offertory collectors from the different masses who felt that their divine right to take up the collection was being undermined by these interlopers from the cancelled mass. Baskets and collection plates were being hidden and on one occasion a virtual tug of war erupted between two collectors. The spirit of St Vincent de Paul non existent! So if that's the cooperation between mass goers in the same church then I can't wait to see the performances being acted out between parishes. World War 3 May be nearer than we think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-82569760525169482222015-01-20T11:29:14.643+00:002015-01-20T11:29:14.643+00:00It is universally established that the more intima...It is universally established that the more intimate pastoral structures are the more people feel they belong. A prime example of this is the widespread use of Basic Christian Communities in vast South American parishes and dioceses. <br /><br />Remote leaders and structures lead to a sense on Non Belonging and isolation - which became evident in the "aircraft hanger" churches built by Archbishop Mc Quaid in Dublin in the 1960s. <br /><br />D&C already have a remote bishop. Now theee are to have remote moderators and moderatees. <br /><br />Its the "Europisation" of Irish Catholicism.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-12639809336918760342015-01-20T10:58:57.273+00:002015-01-20T10:58:57.273+00:00The problem is that at the implementation stage th...The problem is that at the implementation stage the dye may be cast as the German population discovered.Thinking Catholicismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16589713565062075036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-75376209115659047342015-01-20T10:56:14.681+00:002015-01-20T10:56:14.681+00:00A complete mis-representation of what is happening...A complete mis-representation of what is happening. Do you enjoy installing fear into the minds of ordinary people? Our diocese is by far not the first to do this. Also, the creation of pastoral communities will simply see a greater working relationship between parishes. This is no bad thing. Not every change is to be feared. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3543129696041324861.post-72327898781553157962015-01-20T10:34:02.741+00:002015-01-20T10:34:02.741+00:00As I don't subscribe to or follow any RC affai...As I don't subscribe to or follow any RC affairs, other than this site, I have little knowledge of changes proposed. But from Pat's description of Trainor's proposals, they seem to me to be a typical bureaucratic administrative response centralising power to the chosen few.<br />I have however always thought the geographical make-up of the D&C and Dromore diocese peculiar, for example with somewhere like Kilkeel in the Mournes/south Down part of D&C diocese, based on Belfast but stretching up into north Antrim, with places like Ballynahinch (Magherdroll parish) stuck in the middle, and Derrytrasna way out on Lough Neagh/Armagh, but part of Dromore diocese. Historical no doubt.<br />MourneManMichaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com