Tuesday 16 October 2018

IMPORTANT ARTICLE - HOW THE ABUSE SCANDAL AND ITS MISHANDLING IS DESTROYING TRUST IN THE CHURCH

Analysis: Justice by papal fiat points to serious lack of trust within the Church

Pope Francis cannot earn back trust simply with displays of raw power given piecemeal against old men who used to be someone, or secluded perverts that nobody likes and few even realized were still breathing.

The Catholic World Report  Christopher R. Altieri

Francis and bishops last Sunday


Vatican announced on Saturday that Pope Francis has reduced two Chilean bishops to the lay state. One of the defrocked is an 85-year-old man reported now to be suffering senile dementia, Francisco José Cox Huneeus, who was bishop of La Serena from 1990 to 1997. The other is 53-year-old Marco Antonio Órdenes Fernández, who served as bishop of Iquique from 2006 to 2012.

COX


Allegations against Mr. Cox go back at least to 1974, the documentation of which contains gruesome details. Mr. Órdenes had what can only be described as a meteoric rise, becoming in 2006 the youngest bishop in Chile’s history, at age 42. He would retire a half-dozen years later, citing ill health.

ORDENES


Órdenes has apparently lived a quiet and secluded life since handing in his letter, while Cox bounced around for a while — with the help of another high-ranking Chilean prelate (and Cox’s confrère in the Schönstatt fraternity, Cardinal Francisco Javier Errázuriz — before settling at the Schönstatt General House in Germany sometime in 2002.

(The best nutshell version of Cox’s and Órdenes’s stories is to be found in the e-pages of Crux, where readers will also find a succinct rehearsal of the Vatican’s involvement in the rise of both men, along with details regarding the management of each man’s fall.)

There can be no real doubt that the men merit the most severe punishment.

While no one can reasonably deny that the men thus reduced deserved at least what they got from Pope Francis, the manner in which the Holy Father has done the thing brings questions of his ability to govern the Church into tight focus. The statement announcing the moves came on Saturday. CWR’s translation from the Spanish follows:

The Holy Father has dismissed from the clerical state Francisco José Cox Huneeus, Archbishop emeritus of La Serena (Chile), member of the Institute of the Schönstatt Fathers, and Marco Antonio Órdenes Fernández, Bishop emeritus of Iquique (Chile).

In both cases, Article 21 § 2.2 of the motu proprio Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela has been applied, as a consequence of manifest acts of abuse of minors.

The decision adopted by the Pope last Thursday, October 11, 2018, admits no recourse.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has already notified the interested parties, through their respective superiors, in their respective residences. Francisco José Cox Huneeus will continue to be part of the Institute of Schönstatt Fathers.

Sacramentorum sanctitatis tutela is the piece of special legislation governing the gravest delicts — the most serious crimes — in canon law. Article 21 § 2.2 states that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which has ordinary jurisdiction over such crimes, may present the gravest of the most grave cases to the Pope for his decision with regard to dismissal from the clerical state or deposition, together with dispensation from the law of celibacy, when it is manifestly evident that the delict was committed and after having given the guilty party the possibility of defending himself.

The Vatican, in other words, was at pains to make it clear that this was Pope Francis’s decision.
It was also a decision taken outside the Church’s normal system of judicial procedure: in short, Cox and Órdenes were laicized with no judicial process — no trial — to speak of. Even in normal circumstances, canonical trials are paperwork affairs — conducted in secret, to boot — and that is a problem. Said simply: (at risk of sounding like a broken record) justice must be seen to be done. There must be independent investigations conducted in the light of day, and reasonably transparent processes for the adjudication of criminal charges against clerics high and low.

Vatican City has the rudiments of such investigative and judicial mechanisms, and has used them recently in connection with crimes both financial and moral. For reasons both juridical-political and practical, the Vatican City system could not possibly be used to process canonical cases. Nevertherless, the existence of the system shows that the Church at the highest levels of governance is not unfamiliar with either the process or the reasons for it.

In any case, Cox and Fernandez received summary justice by papal fiat — and that is a bigger problem.

If the Church’s continued use of secret trials is a hindrance to the recovery of trust, insofar as it renders reasonable persons incapable of confidence in her capacity to administer justice, so much more will naked exercises of raw power serve to undermine and indeed destroy the very ground on which any such confidence must be based: the reasonable belief in the Church’s own bona fide commitment to doing justice at all.

With specific regard to the Chilean theater of the global crisis, there can be no doubt, but that Pope Francis faces a terrible dilemma.

When the bishops of Chile resigned en masse in May of this year, they created a serious conundrum for Pope Francis. Basically, they left him with a set of three alternatives: accept all the resignations and start from scratch; accept some of the resignations and sit on others; accept none of the resignations and proceed piecemeal.

Each of the three options poses its own set of peculiar dangers, and none of them is without a downside. Francis seems to have opted for an out-of-the-box hybrid solution in Chile, somewhere between door number two and door number three. Seems, one says, because Pope Francis has not shared his plan with the faithful — not even in broad strokes — even as he has constantly insisted we are all in this together.

While the breakdown in trust among bishops and bodies of the faithful in virtually every ecclesiastical jurisdiction is heartbreaking and truly scandalous, there appears to be an even more grievous breakdown in trust within the bishops’ own ranks. The dilemma facing Pope Francis with regard to the world’s bishops is even more terrible than the one facing him in Chile: he can’t trust any of them.

Pope Francis also appears also to be wary of the faithful. In his recent letter to Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl accepting his resignation and congratulating him on a job well done after the Cardinal’s defensiveness and lack of candor lost him the confidence of the clergy and the faithful in his archdiocese, Pope Francis wrote:

I recognize in your request the heart of the shepherd who, by widening his vision to recognize a greater good that can benefit the whole body (cf. Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii gaudium, 235), prioritizes actions that support, stimulate and make the unity and mission of the Church grow above every kind of sterile division sown by the father of lies who, trying to hurt the shepherd, wants nothing more than that the sheep be dispersed (cf. Matthew 26:31).

Whatever else these lines do, they certainly tend to confirm the worst suspicions of those, who read his series of September fervorini as showing that he believes the faithful to be a ginned-up mob, and at best the tools and playthings of the Devil.

From his dismissal of the faithful in the small Chilean diocese on which he foisted the hapless and unready Bishop Juan Barros — “Osorno is suffering because it is dumb,” — to his juxtaposition — if not comparison — of the faithful desirous of transparency and accountability from the Church’s leaders to the bloodthirsty crowds calling for Christ’s crucifixion, Francis has shown astounding insensitivity to the concerns of the faithful. If his eyes were ever opened to the callousness of his disregard for the real hurt of the people he professes to love, it appears he has repented of his discovery.

Perhaps it is the case that Pope Francis himself believes — as the Catholic News Agency’s level-headed and judicious JD Flynn in an excellent piece of news analysis recently speculated Vatican officials may believe — that the crisis in the Church is somehow playing out as a referendum on his leadership?

It is certain that elements in the Church are using the crisis to make political hay. This weekend, during a press conference to mark the anniversary of the final apparition of Our Lady of Fatima, the bishop of Leiria-Fátima, Cardinal Antonio Marto called l’Affaire Viganò an “ignoble attack” on Pope Francis. “[The whole business] is nothing more than a political montage, with no real foundation,” he said. At best, he’s half right.

Even without Viganò’s extraordinary “testimonies” — the original 11-page letter and the follow-up, to both of which Cardinal Marc Ouellet responded last weekend — we have more than enough to know there is rot in the Church that reaches the Curia. We need to discover the extent of its spread and the vectors of its spreading. The Archbishop of Munich and Friesing and C9 member, Cardinal Reinhard Marx, admitted as much at a press event October 5th to launch a training initiative on safeguarding efforts at Rome’s Pontifical Gregorian University. “[The crisis with its fallout] has not been caused by the press doing their job properly,” he said. “It’s caused by the Church leadership.”

Said simply, the faithful have a right to know.

In order to begin to address the crisis at its root, Pope Francis needs to earn back some small measure of trust. He simply cannot do that by displays of raw power given piecemeal against old men who used to be someone, or secluded perverts that nobody likes and few even realized were still breathing.

Instead, he needs to come up with a plan for reform apt to produce the necessary transparency in governance — especially insofar as the administration of justice is concerned — and he needs to be transparent about that. If he has such a plan, he needs to submit it to the faithful, who have rights in the Church both moral and legal.

Even the Archbishop-emeritus of Washington, DC, Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl — a close adviser and papal favorite — admitted as much when pressed. “[Y]es,” he told CWR this past August, “the laity do have a place: they have a moral place — a right in that sense — to participate in whatever is going on in the life of the Church.” So, do victims of wicked clerics. So, do the men accused of wicked deeds, though it does not gratify our thirst for vengeance to say so.

Even if they did not, the laity is a resource Pope Francis simply cannot afford not to tap.

“Give him time,” said Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta, at a recent press briefing on the doings of the Synod Assembly underway in Rome, in response to a question regarding what the attitude of the faithful should be with respect to Pope Francis’s leadership. With due respect to Archbishop Scicluna — who may be the closest thing to a good guy one is like to find in this whole sordid business — Pope Francis has had plenty of that.





PAT SAYS:

Anyone with any intelligence can see that the global RC Church is imploding - and imploding fast.

What would I do if I were in Pope Francis' position?

I would:

1. Immediately suspend any and every bishop who has abused or who have covered up abuse.

2. Immediately sack any and every bishop who has been proven to have abused or who have covered up abuse.

3. Set up a new Congregation in Rome headed by a qualified layperson for the handling of abuse or the cover-up of abuse by bishops and priests and give them the authority to suspend and remove bishops and priests.

4. Set up a second new Roman Congregation headed by a layperson to coordinate global ministry to all abused.

5. Change canon law to allow for all these changes and give the people in control real teeth.

6. Appoint a lay abuse investigator to every nunciature in the world to deal with complaints and accusations.

7 Make each national churches publish a full public report on the handling of abuse every year which names all those credibly accused of abuse and coverup.

Actions like this would show the world that the RC church is serious about tackling abuse and coverup.

No person or body is a good judge in their own case.

No longer can the Vatican and bishops be trusted to investigate each other.

Maybe readers have other suggestions?


76 comments:

  1. The institutional Roman Catholic Church (the Roman Whore) is a product of this world, not the next.

    These clerical scum, Bishop Pat, will not change...unless forced to do so.


    So please, every genuine follower of the Nazarene, help Mary crush the head of the Serpent by stamping, repeatedly, on the collective head of Roman Catholic priesthood, the vile organ by which Satan has entered the Church. 😆

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mad Magna Caca at 00:35!!!

      Polly you're getting worse, your hatred of The Sacred Priesthood is quite concerning. We can only hope that Our Blessed Lady under her glorious title 'Terror of Heretics' crushes your head, for your disgraceful rant about the Clergy. I don't think The Nazarene will be too pleased with you either, for your disgraceful comments about His faithful servants. Evviva Maria!

      Delete
    2. Isn't it strange, you barking fool, that the Church you apparently serve has, for literally hundreds of years, taught the vilest, biblical heresy of all: that capital punishment was morally justified.

      I wonder what 'terror' your strange lady will inflict on this ecclesial whore. 😆

      Delete
    3. Mad Magna Caca at 19:38

      Woof! Woof! Polly thanks for your lovely comment you're so predictable, but a bit boring. Capital punishment is morally justified especially for the likes of you, it would be burning at stake, along with all the other Heretics, you did ask. Evviva Maria

      Delete
    4. It isn't that I'm predictable and boring, but that, intellectually, you are such an easy target, you barking, semi-literate halfwit. 😅

      I almost feel guilty.

      Almost. 😆

      Delete
    5. Capital punishment obsessed small footed alky alert.

      Delete
    6. Mad Magna Caca at 23:48

      Polly thank you so much for your lovely Christian comment, it is so much appreciated. However with such hate-filled expressions you'll never see Nazerath never mind your Nazerene, now where are those fire lighters...? Evviva Maria!

      Delete
    7. AULD GOSSIP ALCHY ALERT AT 07:36

      Delete
  2. Nobody seems to care for due process, neither Bergoglio nor Buckley. We are in a world of uncontrolled allegations.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I don't normally tend to post but only read instead. Pat, is it right, do you think, to post the views of a Man @ 00.35 who may have alcohol addiction issues. The same can be compared when you were accused of exploiting Bill Mulvihill in a whole manner of ways. Does that explain, I wonder, why Bill has been saying nasty things against you recently and openly? Are people like the alcoholic gentleman who posts very distasteful comments on a regular basis turning others off this blog? As someone said yesterday, are people getting weary of how ugly the blog has become? I think there is much here for reflection on your part but I can't imagine you will accept that Pat because you do tend to be dismissive of those who give gentle advice.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do we really know if Magna is "an alcoholic gentleman"?

      Maybe he would tell us?

      I am not aware that Bill has been saying nasty things about me?

      I have nothing nasty to say about Bill.

      Delete
    2. Well said, 09:25. Pat might not like to hear it but, in many peoples eyes, his blog has become a “freak show”.

      The small group of bullies, the vicious former and current clerics, who post as “Magna Carta”, are the principal repellents.

      Also, Bill’s turning against Pat was predicted. That’s what Bill does. Wherever Bill goes now people have their phones very handy to dial 999.

      The man is completely crazy and all his threats and prophecies of doom??? The Irish media wouldn’t touch his stories which, if true, would have caused a meltdown.

      But they weren’t true and it was and is obvious to everyone (except Pat Buckley) that Bill was entirely unhinged.

      Pat Buckley will promote and court anyone and anything that he imagines will further his own agenda. The ridiculous “bromance” with Billy boy didn’t last too long though as many predicted.

      The Magna cabal too. They suit PB, even though, behind all their flattery to keep getting their trollings published, they regard him as a figure of fun and contempt.

      No one of any note takes PB and his blog seriously. Journalists chuckle/roll their eyes at the mention of his name.

      That’s the reality. People read Buckley for entertainment and out of curiosity - to see what the latest episode is in the crazy soap opera. In some ways it’s fascinating Lol.

      Delete
    3. Magna Caca is more than one “gentleman”. Not all of Magna Caca live in Ireland and yes they drink like fish.

      You should not be in the least surprised that you too are now on Barking Bill’s shitlist.

      You were told that would happen. The guy is batshit crazy.

      Delete
    4. 10:31, as the creator of the blog composite character, Magna Carta, I'm intrigued by a number of your statements.

      How do you know that Magna comprises more than one individual? And are you thinking of the character I created, or of me? Maybe you're just confused. That you allowed blog creativity to blur your edges of reality. I don't know. Perhaps you might tell us.

      I don't know who you are, so I cannot say whether I ever met you. But your post suggests that you have one or other of us (me or Magna) at a disadvantage. Have you met me? Do you know things about me (and, therefore, about Magna's literary reality(?

      And when you say that the 'Magna cabal...regard him (Pat Buckley) as a figure of fun and contempt', what evidence have you for this?

      Personally, I have enormous respect for Pat, on account of his fidelity, his courage, his compassion, and, particularly, his dogged determination to persist in exposing the dark underbelly of a church whose clerics have caused so much pain to others (not least to the lord they claim to serve), and who have brought so much worldwide moral disgrace upon themselves, and, indirectly, on the 'People of God'. Were it not for this Magna would have no stones to throw.

      Think about it.

      Delete
    5. Dear “creator” of the “Magna Caca blog composite” (lol):

      During the “troubles” in the wee north, as you well know, certain men used to go about their districts, throwing their weight about, wearing masks and hoods to disguise their identities.

      Nevertheless, the people knew who they were. They hid their faces but the locals knew the gait of, say, “Big Davey” - the way his arse stuck out a bit further than his beer belly - par exemple.

      And sometimes, just to mark the cards of “Big Davey” or skinny Gerry, or baldy Eugene, if they were getting a bit too big for their balaclavas, the locals would shout: “Hiiii yew! Oi! That’s right! Yeeeew! WE KNOW YEEEE!”

      The Irish clerical community is small, O “creator” of the masterpiece that is “Magna Caca”. Some of us had the MC enigma figured out a while back.

      Not that it matters a f**k to be quite honest. For quite frankly, madam, no one gives a damn. It’s just all so very very funny.

      So just to sum it all up: Magna Caca .... WE KNOW YEEEE!!! LOL

      Delete
    6. Well clearly, 23:42, it does matter 'a f**k' to you, cos you took the trouble to compose and post such a desparate comment.

      And stranger still, you claim to 'KNOW YEEEE!!! LOL', yet, and oddly, stop short of naming me.

      To the devil 😈 with false modesty! Show the internet world that you are cleverer than Sherlock (cleverer than even his older, much cleverer brother, Mycroft). And name me.

      Go on. I dare you. Have you the testes? 😅

      😆

      Delete
    7. Ah now now Maggie Caca, don’t take on so. Lol Name you? Sure that would spoil all the craic and fun! :-D

      All the same .... WE KNOW YEEEEEEE!!!! Lol

      Delete
  4. 10.10: Pat, Magna's abusive behaviour, his racist outbursts are indicative of a mentally unstable person, a condition aggravated by alcohol. There is a viciousness and mad rage in Magna's rantings that is abnormal and subhuman. He does not do his cause any justice by being so ugly and irrational. He makes good arguments at times but more often he abuses everyone all too frequently in a most horrible and unacceptable way. Yes, I would believe he has a behavioural problem exacerbated by drink. Sadly.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Once Pat gets his gritty teeth into an issues that places him morally higher than the rest of us he will exploit it for its worth. He is clever at manipulating all things and individuals for his own purposes, as with Mulvihill. Pat lacks moral judgment and is often spiritually impoverished in his application of the words of Jesus. He crosses boundaries in his analysis - forever forgetting that all the words of Jesus are spoken to him too.

    ReplyDelete
  6. As you know Pat, I'm sure from experience, some alcoholics will not admit they have a problem. Pointless asking MC and your suggestion to do so is just plain silly. I credited you with a bit more cop on than that.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Okay, sometimes this blog does go a bit off focus, and + Pat will have his hobby horses and targets. But, for the most part, it gives a forum for us to discuss very important issues about the current state of our Church. I don't always agree with + Pat, but he has had the courage to ask some very awkward questions (that the pezzi grossi would prefer not asked) and gives us the opportunity to debate about what has happened to our Church and how we can help to turn things around. Yes, there are some odd characters popping up on this blog, and some pretty vile and nasty ones too, and some very 'interesting' characters. Yes, there is a bit of bitchy gossip and innuendo (mostly engendered by the lacy frilly knickers clerical gang, I suspect, who get very bitchy if you get on the wrong side of them and very defensive). But, for the most part, the issue is clear for debate - what has happened in our Church and what must be done ?

    I for one know what has happened. The question I want answered is what is the Church, the bishops, priests, and the Pope going to do about it, other than more of the same ? And, how's about asking the laity about what the laity want and listening seriously to them ? Remember, the laity run the rest of the world, which is much bigger and more complicated than the Church and the Vatican !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yawning after another long boring essay from servingblogger. Pat's merry band have emerged to defend the indefensible.

      Delete
    2. 12.03: Servingblogger - shorter comments at last but please try to write a different, more inspiring narrative. This blog is a freak show at times. Pat does not have the intellectual depth to go beyond soundbyte conversation. While you ask relevant questions, you give little by way of imagination, vision or creativity. What is your redeeming plan outside of diagnosing the problem? There are many other courageous voices speaking, reflecting and asking relevant questions and many of those same "prophets" responding caringly and significantly in their communities. Can you open your eyes and ears?

      Delete
    3. Yes 12.03, same old same old from you. You must be deluded if you think you can change the Church simply by posting the same old gripes on here. If you think the Church listens to anything posted on this blog you are more crazy than I first realised. Carping on from behind your computer screen has NO affect and changes NOT one thing. The same old tired suggestions have been debated time and time again, laity involvement at senior level, return to the NT, more accountability, do away with the Clergy etc etc. Even Pat tried to run his own Church and get laity involved and that fell flat. He founded a religious community and that went tits up by all accounts. Get laity involved ok but through experience this usually ends in squabbling, infighting, jealousy becomes rife, tensions mount, stronger characters want to be top dog, decisions can't be made because so many views ate expressed, the list is endless. It's not what it's all cracked up to be.

      Delete
    4. 1400 and 1405 - sorry that you can't keep with the narrative, and don't have the patience to follow the argument. 1405 - it is not my job to come up with solutions, it is the job of the Church as a whole under the influence of the Holy Spirit. I make no apologies for diagnosing the problem. Do tell me who are the other voices responding daringly and significantly in their communities ? I don't hear or see them. I hear people on here telling me they are doing so, but my response is that that is not good enough. Staying within the system is akin to being complicit with it. The good Nazi scenario. I was only doing my duty stuff. Well, it doesn't wash any more, and mostly comes from the mouths of priests who are complacent, comfortable and too weak to challenge and stand up against the indefensible and for a new Church. Longwinded enough for you ?!

      Delete
    5. Yes longwinded @15.32 from a windbag. You just need to really deal with being rejected from Seminary. How can we help you to recover because it's eating away you on a daily basis and manifests itself on this blog on a daily basis. What must we do?

      Delete
    6. 15.32: You are now so repetitive that you are tiresome and tedious. Many of us working in parishes are living the gospel challenge in our ministry and attempting to effect radical and necessary renewal, sometimes with success, othertimes with difficulty - but WE ARE RESPONDING IN OUR EFFECTIVE WAYS - surely that's commendable. If I was to follow your lead, I'd be a continual moaner and analyst but offering nothing inspirational. Thankfully, while I and many, many other priests are profoundly aware of the Church crises, we do not loose our hope. We do, with fidelity, what we are called to do with as much creative and imaginative energy as possible, alongside our loyal parishioners. It becomes very tiresome to read your repetitive comments. As asked of you before - what is your blueprint apart from diagnosing? If you care for the Church, as you say you do, come forward and make a valuable contribution with ideas, visions, plans. I am RESPONDING - and trusting in God's presence. What are you offering? It seems to me nothing given by any priest is good enough for you!! So, envision and enlighten us all with your dream plan, O Hidden Prophet...

      Delete
    7. 15.27: Brilliant comment and I hope moany Servingblogger will take note. His essays are futile, so boring, so predictable. We've heard him so often beat the same drum. What we now want from this seemingly tired old fart is A WORKABLE PLAN for renewal. He hasn't offered anything inspiring, ever. Come on Servingblogger- be realistic.

      Delete
    8. Spare me the seminary reject stuff. Spare me the windbag stuff. Spare me your weak excuses for sitting comfortably in your presbyteries (by the way, paid for by the likes of me) thinking that you are quietly working to save the Church. What, I believe, you are mostly interested in is not rocking the boat and ensuring that your little bit of life is comfortable and safe. I've heard and seen it all before. One of the reasons I admire + Pat is that he has put his money where his mouth is, and allowed himself to be detached from the comfortable womb of Holy Mother the Church, and make it on his own. And have his own voice. How many of you have that courage ? How many of you really want to see the Church change, so that you become answerable and accountable to the majority of the Church, the laity ? And where the behaviour of the clerical classes is laid bare for all to see. I think not many of you. So, spare me your wingeing when someone like me points out the faults of the institution which supports you and which you continue to hold up. Oh, and by the way, I am not a tired old fart. On the contrary I am engaged, energetic, thinking, inspired, active and not a spoiled seminarian with a grudge.

      Delete
    9. Servingblogger @18.10 Is your little rant over with yet? Oh dear, you are hurting, aren't you? Best laugh I've had all day, thanks for that. All you claim that you are not is actually the reverse in reality. Thanks too for confirming that for me. Best laugh of all is your paranoia thinking everyone that disagrees with you is a Priest - priceless lol.

      Delete
    10. 18.10: Servingblogger, I think you have an overexaggerated sense of your own importance. Spare us your long winded, faux outrage. You still haven't answered legitimate questions put to you. What is your dream plan for the renewal you desire? Tell us. Since priests (in humility) continually invite parishioners (truly concerned ones) for ideas, suggestions and visions, why don't you help us or are you another one who moans, groans, analyses ad infinitum but has nothing pragmatic or realistic to offer. And if you are so displeased by what you see, stop contributing financially. It's a free world. Have you ever approached your local priest? Or are you another malcontent priest or former seminarian? A little truth might elucidate more accurately your angst. If you are "engaged, energetic, thinking, inspired, active" as you proclaim, forward your saving plan or forever hold your silence, keyboard warrior! Moaning minnies become boring and tiresome.

      Delete
    11. 18.10: Servingblogger, how often do you have to be told that you are boringly repetitive? Give us IDEAS, SUGGESTIONS, PLANS - We await your enlightened response. You are far too defensive and reactionary to criticism. Loosen up, O Mighty One! The new Reformer - sadly full of analysis but no solutions.

      Delete
    12. Thank God servingblogger never made it beyond the door of the Seminary.

      Delete
    13. Okay, go ad hominem if you want. You just don't want to hear what is really happening, and how you priests are part of it. Too cushy, too comfortable for you to do anything about, I think. Have it your way. But times is changing. And you better hope that you are dead and buried before it hits, because you will get found out. I promise you. x SB

      Delete
  8. I posted yesterday to say, sadly, that some friends no longer read the blog precisely because of the good points raised by 09.25. I was sorry that Pat dismissed it by simply saying I was entitled to my view.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Auld Gossip at 12:11

      Sadly you're entitled to your view, but so is everyone else, I know that will be sad for you, but too bad. You thought you could influence Patsy, but good for Patsy you were sent packing.

      Delete
  9. To get back to the point of the article, Pope Francis is doing exactly what you want +Pat in points one and two of your reply. The charges that have been thrown at the Church for years has been the lengthy time period that the Canonical process takes to "reduce" someone to the lay state from the clerical state. Now it seems that when the canonical process is put aside for the most severe cases he comes under attack again. The Pope can not win! Personally speaking I think this is long overdue, and the Francis has my full backing for taking swift action. I just hope that this process applies to all that abuse and that it is not simply a one off to show an example.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Attack Magna all you like but you cannot deny that he speaks the truth. None of your attacks on him can take away from that. His postings are factual. The RC church is in meltdown due to its abusive and controlling behaviour all in the name of Christianity. What they have sowed they are now reaping. The fact that the RC church has gotten to this stage does not bring me any joy. They should never have strayed from the teachings of Christ. Keep posting Magna

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you still wavering @12.54? You cannot possibly defend someone's aggressive and abusive behaviour simply because they are factual. Do you realise what an idiot you sound? It didn't take you very long to jump on the bandwagon did it but it never does - you and servingblogger or are you one and the same person wavering/serving? The same predictable two or one person saying exactly the same thing over and over, day in and day out.

      Delete
    2. @12.54 Don't worry, Magna is due to emerge from his drunken pit soon. He usually does around this time of day and attacks and abuses all and sundry. He waits until around Midnight for a new blog to appear and usually is the first to reply to it with maximum abusive venom and then the whole cycle begins all over again. Predictable.

      Delete
  11. As ever the the blogg is turned into a slagging match - to take our mind off the issues. It is perfectly understandable why Bishop Pat does not want to censor anyone - also to moderate many of the posts would take up far too much of his time.
    So many times the 'faithful' attack the messenger or commentator when they have no answers to the questions posed.

    The Church is morally bankrupt. If it were a lay institution governments all over the world would have shut it down years ago and seized all its assets.
    I read about the ordination of the Down and Connor Deacons and wonder why such talented, astute and worldly wise men want to join, assist and prop up such an organisation. There are so many other ways they could help the poor the lonely and the disenfranchised - but they have joined the club as associate members.
    Here's a question for the lawyers - During the troubles anyone who assisted a gunman or bomber was equally as guilty of the action as the one who pulled the trigger or 'lit the match'.
    Surely ANYONE who has knowledge of an abuser and does nothing to stop it is as guilty as the abuser?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Pat Mullaney has us all terrified in gaynooth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There’s that Pat Mullaney at it again frightening the life out of those poor students!

      Delete
    2. There's a shocking shortage of commas as well.
      ,,,,,,,
      Oh, there they are.

      Delete
  13. To anonymous at 14:26. As I stated yesterday NO I am not still wavering. I have left but couldn't be bothered changing my nom de plume. And I will continue as much as I want to reiterate how rotten to the core the RC hierarchy are. I do not know Magna. I do not know if he has a drink problem or not. It is none of my business but I cannot and will not deny that he speaks the truth. As for bandwagons it would seem that the RC bandwagon is running out of control. I only hope that you have the sense to jump off it before it crashes to smithereens. It would appear my friend that you are the idiot here but someday you will waken up and see what is staring you in the face. A cover up church full of self seeking power hungry people who will go to all ends to try and justify their behaviour. There I said it again !

    ReplyDelete
  14. I, as the creator of Magna Carta, should like to answer some criticisms of the character made earlier today. I did make these points on this blog very recently, but either readers missed them, or have such short memories that they've already forgotten them.

    First, Magna Carta is a blog composite characterisation, which means that he is NOT a real person. He is not, therefore, an alcoholic; nor, indeed, can he be, since he does not exist except in my head, and on the pages of this blog. It really is amusing that some commentors here, like Bellarmine, take Magna so seriously that they troll the character, and then engage in slanging matches with him. In all honesty, I should take this as a compliment to my skill in 'bringing alive' such a non-person; and, indeed, I do. But I admit that I am more amused by these responses to Magna's posts than anything else.

    Magna hates Roman Catholic priesthood; this is undeniable. Some commentors here do not like this, while others violently and viciously oppose it; all of which is fine with me. However, Magna has reason, from the highest echelons of the Church, for his feelings. Pope Emeritus Benedict has said of priests: 'It is not people ouside the Church who bring filth into it; it is we who make it dirty.'

    There is another reason for Magna's hatred (which will surprise some of you): he actually loves the Church, but hates what she has become through the inevitable, destructive influence of a this-worldly theology of priesthood.

    Railing against Magna is as silly as it is pointless. You may as well take personal issue with a character in a children's comic.

    To those of you who complain loudest about Magna: Chill! Life is too short, too wonderful for such childish self-indulgence.

    I'll let Magna have the final word, so to speak.

    😆

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Magna Caca “creator” @ 16:49, we know. You’re also a priest ;-)

      Delete
    2. At the next clerical gathering in say Down and Connor or Meath, can we expect
      various clerics to stand up and declare: “I am Magna Carta!” “No! I am Magna Carta!” LOL

      Delete
    3. No!😠 I, and I alone, am the one known as 'Magna Carta'.

      I have the smile. 😆

      Delete
    4. Mad Magna Caca at 16:49

      YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY BARKING MAD!

      Eviva Maria!

      Delete
  15. 16.49: Not at all sufficient Magna. Not at all persuasive. This is all a ploy to convince us that you are just acting weird, sometimes cleverly, bizarrely and foolish in a characterisation of MC. Nonsense. One doesn't need to be a professional psychtherapist/psychologist to see the craziness behind the pseudonym. That reality is an abusive, strange, delusional, wounded and an unemotional, unmpathetic personality, with little capacity for self criticism. If you believe that railing against Magna is as silly as it is pointless, then why do you behave likewise to all the other "realities" behind pseudonyms, since they too, like you are not really "real" but just characterisation. Your deductions are very questionable. The truth is - the reality behind MC is an abusive, infantile, offensive, drunk, permanently enthralled with his childish self indulgence (your words)...Can you reveal a more human reality (without the help of drink)?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 'Not at all sufficient, Magna. Not at all persuasive.'

      Hmm, 17:42 😞 I should imagine that Jesus heard similar words back in the day. They didn't alter the truth he spoke, though, anymore than your denial nullifies my truth.

      You have made the classic error, of confusing Frankenstein with his creation.

      Believe about me what you wish (or what you clearly need to believe).

      In those immortal words, 'frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.' 😆

      Delete
    2. 18.58: Maggie Dear- you are a barrel of contradictions. Jesus certainly wouldn't approve of your abusive, obnoxious behaviour. Whatever your hiding behind MC is a pathetic, revolting reality. "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". What an appropriate epitaph for your rock!

      Delete
    3. Magna Carta's Mum17 October 2018 at 21:24

      Honestly, Magna darling, half the people aren't going to believe you're real and the others won't believe you're unreal. I read in that book by a chap called Jung, which you left by the lavatory, that trying to believe several impossible things at once (like the church being holy and sinful) is cognitive dissonance. They'll probably think you're the devil next!
      Now pass me the Crème Dr Violettes, darling.

      Delete
    4. No, 20:03, no contradictions; just contrasts.

      You don't understand the nuance here, do you? 😆

      Delete
    5. Of couse, Mommie Dearest.

      I like to give them enough light not to stumble, but insufficient light to dispel shawdows of doubt or uncertainty.

      I know: it's wicked of me. But then, I am a chip off the old, er, 'blockette', aren't I? 😆

      Delete
  16. 16.49: Hopefully the final word from Magna is - R.I.P.....

    ReplyDelete
  17. Yes 16:49. That's a really Christian attitude. NOT. A previous anonymous poster stated that Thise who posted in support of Magna are trying to defend the indefensible. The saying pot kettle black comes to mind. If ever there was anyone trying to defend the indefensible it is barking bellamarine and those who post in support of the rc church. Face it. It is rotten. It is corrupted. It is unchristian. It is an embarrassment to God fearing people. It is sinking. Charlatans have taken over the church and are abusing the faithful by squandering their money, covering up abuse and by downright lying

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wavering Apostate at 19:20

      I will always defend the Holy Church against people like you. All over the world there are thousands of good holy priests and religious who silently and for the love of God serve the Faithful and bring us the Sacraments. People like you only focus on anything negative, it does not matter, we have the promise of Our Blessed Lord, that the gates of hell will not prevail. I'm glad your on your way to perdition with Mad Magna and her cohorts you'll be good company for each other. Evviva Maria!

      Delete
    2. Here Here Bellarmine

      Delete
    3. You couldn't defend anyone from anything, least of all yourself, you barking ignoramus, at 22:12.

      If all institutional Roman Catholicism has to defend itself are blockheads like you, then its end is indeed nigh. 😅

      Delete
    4. Magna on late again tonight - what a surprise!! Next we will hear from the old soak will be tomorrow afternoon. Funny that.

      Delete
    5. 00:10, Magna does have people to see. So he is busy at irregular hours.

      He responds when he can.

      But he WILL respond. 😆

      Delete
    6. Mad Magna Caca at 23:45

      Polly thank you for your lovely but predictable comment, so Christian of you. Your end is indeed nigh, you're well on your way to PERDITION Bye! Bye! Evviva Maria!

      Delete
  18. 19.20: WaveringCatholic - more lunaticcatholic. How dare you insult all priests and religious like that. It would serve you better to acknowledge the many good people within the Church and who are very faithful to their ministry. If you are so disillusioned, go to Larne Oratory. Then after pure "bliss and heaven" you might share your new found joy in the perfect Church! But don't be such a pain in the head with your empty rhetoric. (A difficult word for you perhaps - and what, if any witness do you give in your community to make it a better place apart from gossiping?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Strange goings on Maynooth lol

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, that's nothing new, is it? What have they been up to now.

      Delete
  20. I wonder what the title of tomorrow's blog will be. All together now, 1234... Church abuse!! I wonder what Mulvihill has been saying about Pat - most of us predicted that one. Hardly surprising.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bill has been saying anything about me.

      I am certain of that.

      Delete
  21. 19:20. I can assure you that (a) I am no lunatic and (b) that I cast no aspersions on the many holy priests and religious within the RC church. In fact I admire them but would admire them even more if they spoke out about the way their church is being run. I have never and would never condemned anyone who is holy and in communion with God. Your vitriol shows how little you know. There is no such thing as a perfect church. Man by his imperfection makes it imperfect. So rather than suffer from a pain in the head perhaps you should take two paracetamol. It is always right to speak out against corrupt regimes. That is not gossiping . Take your head out of the sand and see how your church is behaving. See the abuse, the cover ups and the skullduggery that is going on. If you cannot see it, cannot speak out and condemn it then YOU are party to it. Your silence on this makes you complicit. I try to live my life as best as I can but as someone who was battered by clerics and Christian brothers I will continue to speak out. If it annoys you so much then why are you even on this blog.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's best to ignore 21.07. More repetition from him, and he hangs out near Downpatrick. An auld blather that keeps frothing at the mouth, he sends most people to sleep so don't worry too much about it - he has that effect on most people.

      Delete
    2. 21.07: I am on this blog for the same reason you're on it! If you are so disgusted, as I am too, then go to Larne. Let us know when you find the perfect Church. I'll come and join you. Presently I give my energies to doing what I am called to do for my parish and parishioners. I engage creatively with them to renew our community and seek always to make it a more Christian place. Surely a commendable ideal! And - not to disappoint you, I've spoken out very loudly against the Church and done so publicly. I abhor all abuse, all poor leadership and corruption. I will continue to do so while being faithful to my work. I trust in God for all help. I am sorry you had such awful experiences and I wish you well. Your speaking out doesn't annoy me but accusing me of complicity and being silent is unjust. It's easy and de rigeur nowadays to impugn all priests. That's patently wrong.

      Delete
    3. If (and I say 'IF') you have 'spoken out very loudly against the Church and done so publicly' 23:59, then why do you post under 'Anonymous'? You lying priest whoremonger!

      Delete
    4. Mad Magna Caca at 02:10!!!!

      How dare you speak to a priest like that, you are a truly evil person. Hell won't be hot enough for you! I am truly sorry Rev.Father that you were subjected to that abuse from that degenerate Apostate, God Bless you. Mary,Queen of The Clergy pray for us. Evviva Maria!

      Delete
  22. Pat @ 21.00 I hope you are certain of that. He's not denying it.

    ReplyDelete