Up to 25% of psychiatrists & psychologists use their patients for sex
The sickening abuse that a number of Waterford women endured at the hands of a top Consultant Psychiatrist was revealed in a harrowing documentary last week.
RTE’s “Behind The Walls” lifted the lid on allegations of abuse made against Dr. Denis Lane O’Kelly, who promoted himself as an expert on alcoholism and sexual abuse, at the Brother of Charity operated Belmont Park Hospital.
A number of women have revealed how they were told to strip naked for the doctor before being subject to internal examinations, while others were plied with high levels of medication without need. For years these brave women have fought for recognition of the traumatic ordeal they went though and they continue to do so.
The Waterford News & Star spoke to two women about the abuse they suffered, which has understandably left terrible emotional scars on them decades later.
Margaret Martin, originally from Ferrybank and now living in the city, encountered Dr. Lane O’Kelly on her admission to Belmont in 1985, at the age of 27, as she battled with alcoholism.
Over five years she says she was subjected to abuse at the hands of the man who was meant to be looking after her.
“The first day I was admitted Dr Lane O’Kelly came in and I was told I was privileged to have him look after me,” Margaret said, but she soon found out that this wasn’t to be the case.
Over the years he carried out inappropriate examinations on her and despite telling staff members at the time, Margaret said there was little done to help her or the many other patients she believes suffered similar abuse.
“The Matron and the Chief Nursing Officer came to my bed and said, ‘If you ever think of going about this remember it’s an alcoholics word against a top Psychiatrist.’ I hadn’t a hope and no one had the balls to stand up for us,” she said.
She said the softly spoken man would call her “love” or “my little doll” and was “held in high esteem, a pillar of society,” in the locality and therefore people were afraid to speak out.
Members of her family approached staff and social workers and they got a similar response, that it was an alcoholic’s word they were dealing with.
On another occasion Margaret, who has been sober for over 18 years now, says she was given sodium pentothal, better known as the truth serum, by Dr O’Kelly.
“To this day I never got any report back from that. I was completely out of it. There was only me and him in there. I don’t know what he did in that room. That question mark will go to the grave with me,” she said.
Janet Dalton, also from Ferrybank, but now living in Aisling Court, was another woman who was subject to abuse at a vulnerable time in her life.
Now a mother of five, Janet tragically suffered a miscarriage in 1980. Following this she had became depressed and attended at Belmont Park at the age of 29. She had one encounter with Dr Lane O’Kelly in which he told her to undress before performing an inappropriate examination.
Janet immediately told her husband Tom and they spoke to a social worker about what happened.
“I told her what happened and she had heard it before. She believed it. She tried to do something but it all fell on deaf ears.
Her husband also met with one of the Brothers and told him about the abuse of the doctor, but it was dismissed as lies.
“We left it go, no one would take on the medical profession, it’s a closed shop. One doctor was not going to say a bad word against another. I had another appointment with him, but I never kept it,” Janet added.
By the 90s suspicions about the doctor were rife and a number of woman reported that they were sexually assaulted by him from the 1970s to his retirement in the 1990s. Two weeks before he was due to stand trial, charged with multiple counts of indecent assault, he died of a heart attack. A civil action against the Brothers of Charity has since been dismissed due to a lapse of time. Margaret said, “I have nothing against Belmont but it’s the treatment I received there that I have a problem with.
We’ve been fighting the system for 14 years and we’ve gotten no acknowledgement of what happened to us, no apology, we are still swept under the carpet and it happened, it bloody well happened and he died on us before we could have his day in court. All we wanted was our day in court, for him to say he did it. It was a horrible time in my life.”
The woman have found great strength in their friendship and they urge other women who suffered at the hands of Dr. O’Kelly to come forward and let their voice be heard so that what he did to them doesn’t stay hidden in the shadows.
Together they stand united in their cause, to seek recognition for the torment caused by the hands of a medical professional. Janet says, “We would like an acknowledgement to say it happened. Nobody believed us, we were liars. We want an apology and recognition that he did this.”
Margaret added, “Where’s the health board? There has been no reaction from them. Where’s the Brothers of Charity, have none of them a conscience? Dr Conor O’Neill, my GP, is the only man who is willing to stand up and say what he did was wrong, that this was inappropriate behaviour. Dr. Lane O’Kelly is dead but I would like an apology.”
Source: Mary Ellen Breen, “Fighting to be heard,” Waterford News and Star,
PAT SAYS:
It is now clear to me that there has been historic collusion between the Catholic Church, the Gardai, the medical profession etc in the context of the abuse of children and adults in Ireland.
In the case of WATERFORD, I am interested because I was in seminary there and was ordained in the cathedral there.
We know that this Dr. Lane O'Kelly was a staunch and practicing Roman Catholic and was held in wide esteem by the establishment in Waterford.
He advised Archbishop Kevin Mc Namara on the priest abuser Bill Carney and sent him back to ministry.
I am quite certain that senior clerics in Waterford - bishops and others had connections with Lane O'Kelly and used his medical (dis)services including the man who ordained me - Bishop Michael Russell.
PAT SAYS:
It is now clear to me that there has been historic collusion between the Catholic Church, the Gardai, the medical profession etc in the context of the abuse of children and adults in Ireland.
In the case of WATERFORD, I am interested because I was in seminary there and was ordained in the cathedral there.
We know that this Dr. Lane O'Kelly was a staunch and practicing Roman Catholic and was held in wide esteem by the establishment in Waterford.
He advised Archbishop Kevin Mc Namara on the priest abuser Bill Carney and sent him back to ministry.
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| MC NAMARA |
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| MICHAEL RUSSELL |
1. Because John Shine was the "fixer" priest, canon and monsignor for many decades in Waterford. He looked after all the priests and nuns who "got into trouble".
2. John Sine was PP of Tramore where Lane O'Kelly lived and went to Mass.
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| JOHN SHINE |
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| MICK O'CONNOR |
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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| PHONSIE |
****** THE WHOLE WATERFORD SITUATION - CHURCH AND OTHERS - WILL BLOW UP SOON.
IT IS BEING DEALT WITH AT VARIOUS HIGH LEVELS.
As reported in 2001, a U.S. study of therapist-client sex, reported that 1 out of 20 clients who had been sexually abused by their therapist was a minor. The female victims’ ages ranged from 3 to 17, and from 7 to 16 for the males. The average age was 7 for girls and 12 for boys.
For instance, where does the Brendan Kenneally case fit into the whole web? Kenneally was Monsignor Shine's nephew.
Priest stands down from primary school role after nephew Bill Kenneally's sex abuse victims call for resignation
Monsignor John Shine, 91, said he 'would very much wish to meet with the victims to hear their views'
·
By
Saoirse McGarrigle IRISH DAILY MIRROR
· 14:35, 28 JAN 2017
A parish priest has stood down from his role at a primary school after his nephew’s sex abuse victims called for him to go.
Monsignor John Shine, 91, resigned as chairperson of the Board of Management of Holy Cross National School, Tramore, Co Waterford today.
In a statement issued by the Diocese of Waterford and Lismore on his behalf he said: “I have made my decision bearing in mind the wishes, and indeed the distress, of the victims of my nephew Bill Kenneally.”
Monsignor Shine said: “When I am in a position to do so, I would very much wish to meet with the victims to hear their views, and to share with them all that I know of events of the past.
“It is my deep hope that I may be reconciled with them in their immense suffering.”
He also says that he has been “housebound for the last three months” due to a serious illness.
Bishop of Waterford & Lismore Alphonsus Cullinan has formally accepted his resignation.
Victims are calling for an Commission of Investigation into who knew about the abuse and “turned a blind eye”.
They claim that members of An Garda Siochana, Fianna Fail, the Catholic Church and the South Eastern Health Board all knew about it.
The men, now aged in their forties, have met with the Justice Minister to discuss their concerns.
They allege the Monsignor knew from at least 2002 that his nephew had abused at least one boy, but did nothing.
Last week five victims wrote to the Pope calling for his resignation.
Victim Colin Power told the Sunday Mirror: “The role of a board of management is to safeguard children from awful things like this. You can’t have a man who knew his nephew was a paedophile and did nothing in a position like this in a primary school.”
Mr Power added: “I do welcome his resignation. In my opinion he’s done the right thing resigning. It’s just a pity he didn’t do it sooner.
“The court case was this time last year. He knew the level of abuse we’re talking about here and didn’t approach us at any point over the past twelve months,” said Mr Power.
He continued: “Why is he looking for the opportunity to meet us now? Why didn’t he look for that before all of the media coverage?
“Whatever information he has now he had last year. But that said whatever information he does have we would welcome that coming out.”
He added his frustration that victims had to wait months for action.
“We had to go to the media when the school and Department of Education wouldn’t act. We wanted him off the board.”
Principal at the school John Kindlon previously told the Mirror that he couldn’t comment on the matter, because he is employed directly by the board of management.
The Department of Education stated that his appointment was made by the Bishop and not the department.
ABOUT PSYCHIATRIC & MENTAL HEALTH RAPE REPORTER
A review of more than 800 convictions of psychiatrists, psychologists and psychotherapists between 1998 and 2005 revealed that more than 30% were for sex crimes.
Studies in numerous countries reveal that between 10% and 25% of psychiatrists and psychologists admit to sexually abusing their patients.
A 1997 Canadian study of psychiatrists revealed that 10% admitted to sexually abusing their patients; 80% of those were repeat offenders.
In a 1999 British study of therapist-patient sexual contact among psychologists, 25% reported having treated a patient who had been sexually involved with another therapist.
A pretty distasteful subject.
Psych Rape Reporter presents the sex crimes and sexual misconduct-derived state disciplinary actions against mental health practitioners (sorry, we’re not going to call them professionals). All of this content has been reported elsewhere, such as in the news media or in the disciplinary section of the state health care licensing board website. Psych Rape Reporter is not the original source of any of our content so please don’t waste my time or yours accusing Psych Rape Reporter of reporting lies. We just repost other peoples’ stories.
CLERICAL WHISPERS SEPT 19TH 2011
Accused psychiatrist cleared priest to return to ministry
THE consultant psychiatrist who allegedly sexually abused numerous female patients treated disgraced child abuser priest Bill Carney and gave the green light to his return to ministry.
The second section of the Murphy report on clerical sex abuse in the Dublin Archdiocese said Dr Lane O’Kelly, who died two weeks before his own trial in July 2009, was tasked with treating the abuser.
Dr O’Kelly was the subject of a series of complaints by women he treated at Belmont Park Hospital in Co Waterford, which was operated by the Brothers of Charity Services until it closed in 1992.
The two-part RTÉ documentary, Behind the Walls, broadcast interviews with these women on Monday, with a number alleging they were told to strip by Dr O’Kelly, who pleasured himself.
While complaints were made to the hospital at the time of the incidents, no action was taken.
However, in 2002, Dr O’Kelly was formally charged by gardaí in Co Waterford over allegations he sexually abused numerous female patients under his care.
The Murphy report said the consultant psychiatrist at the facility, which focused on alcohol problems, began treating Carney in September 1985 for alcohol problems.
This is despite the fact "there is no evidence it [the facility] had any expertise in child sexual abuse".
Dr O’Kelly was briefed by the archdiocese about Carney’s history in November of that year.
The report said that Dr O’Kelly was of the view Carney had the "possibility of a return to ministry in the new year" in a "controlled situation and subject to careful monitoring".
During the following year Dr O’Kelly informed the archdiocese he was "satisfied" with the progress of Carney, who had been placed in a ministry in south Dublin.
Carney — named as one of the worst serial offenders in the Murphy report — pleaded guilty to two counts of indecently assaulting altar boys in 1983.
He was defrocked by the Catholic Church in 1992 after being found guilty under canon law of child sex abuse.
The Murphy report sited complaints or suspicions against him by 32 named individuals. Last month, he wrote to a local newspaper in Cheltenham, Britain, where he now lives, claiming he should be given "a second chance".
Dr O’Kelly was the subject of a series of complaints by women he treated at Belmont Park Hospital in Co Waterford, which was operated by the Brothers of Charity Services until it closed in 1992.
The two-part RTÉ documentary, Behind the Walls, broadcast interviews with these women on Monday, with a number alleging they were told to strip by Dr O’Kelly, who pleasured himself.
While complaints were made to the hospital at the time of the incidents, no action was taken.
However, in 2002, Dr O’Kelly was formally charged by gardaí in Co Waterford over allegations he sexually abused numerous female patients under his care.
The Murphy report said the consultant psychiatrist at the facility, which focused on alcohol problems, began treating Carney in September 1985 for alcohol problems.
This is despite the fact "there is no evidence it [the facility] had any expertise in child sexual abuse".
Dr O’Kelly was briefed by the archdiocese about Carney’s history in November of that year.
The report said that Dr O’Kelly was of the view Carney had the "possibility of a return to ministry in the new year" in a "controlled situation and subject to careful monitoring".
During the following year Dr O’Kelly informed the archdiocese he was "satisfied" with the progress of Carney, who had been placed in a ministry in south Dublin.
Carney — named as one of the worst serial offenders in the Murphy report — pleaded guilty to two counts of indecently assaulting altar boys in 1983.
He was defrocked by the Catholic Church in 1992 after being found guilty under canon law of child sex abuse.
The Murphy report sited complaints or suspicions against him by 32 named individuals. Last month, he wrote to a local newspaper in Cheltenham, Britain, where he now lives, claiming he should be given "a second chance".
The percentage of psychologists/psycho-therapists who abused those in their care, is higher than the number of Catholic priests who did the same. Yet, who regards healthcare workers as typical paedophiles?
ReplyDeleteDr. Denis lane O’Kelly was a very dangerous individual who had all the characteristics of a psychopath. He didn’t give a fiddlers what suffering he inflicted on vulnerable adults but what’s worse is that the medical community far and wide knew O Kelly was up to no good for years, but they kept their mouths shut, didnt get involved and let him at it until O Kelly ran out of road in 2002, nine years after charges were first brought against him! More white collared crime!
ReplyDeleteYou are not a true friend of Mgr Shine, the family don't want you associated with him Pat Buckley. He would turn in his grave if he could see you now. It's clear you want to punish Bishop Cullinan and you don't care who you use to achieve this. You just use people for your own agenda you wicked man. Stop claiming you were a friend of Mgr Shine because you were not.
ReplyDeleteWe all have friends.
DeleteWe don't expect our friends to be perfect.
John Shine was a man and cleric of his time.
He was also a canon lawyer.
I believe he covered up for the church.
But he also did a lot of good.
@10:01 He should write to Bp Pat and apologise for his conduct at the funeral.
DeleteHis family will just have to accept that their Fr shine had many flaws just like most of us.
DeletePat....I do not like anyone using the term...he was a man of his time...that what the Brady lovers say...they think it absolves Brady...it does not
I understand what you say.
DeleteI will try to not use the term again.
Thank you Pat...also I should say
DeleteThank you for not being an ase licker..in that you did like Fr shine.
Too bad about Shine’ s family
DeleteIf he covered up abuses....we need to know that..absolutely disgraceful and disgusting
He was a very well educated man...ordinary laity paidfor this.
His family should hang their heads in shame
@12.13 Oh perfect one who is without sin. The next time you fail in life let's hang your family out to dry for it instead. You obnoxious and odious creature.
DeleteSo you approve of Fr shine covering up abuse
DeleteAbsolutely wrong in every walk of Life
Nobody is hanging his family out.
I’m replying to 10.01
“The whole Waterford situation – Church and others – will blow up soon.”
ReplyDeleteI hope so, Bp Pat, it will give us something read about instead of truckstop Trixie, Mo McGrady. Will Phonsie have to resign and go into exile? I wonder.
I think this all happened PP - pre Phonsie.
DeleteAlthough Phonsie's files might be interesting.
Anonymous at 11:09
DeleteYes! we can almost see you slavering at the mouth with excitement at the thought of more scandal. You oul GOSSIP!
In the past some Bishops acted on the advice of professional psychiatrists in responding to clerical abusers. Often on recommendation after treatment or therapy some clerics were deemed as suitable to go back into ministry. Now we know the disastrous consequences of such decisions. However, any of us with a modicum of awareness and moral probity would recognise sexual abuse for what it is:a morally reprehensible crime. My parents back in the 50's used to warn us of the dangers of "strangers" and always cautioned us to stay away from certain individuals. Years later I clearly understood their wise advice and awareness of moral right/wrong. That parental instinct kept us safe, thank God. Sexual abusers are cunning, manipulative, often very kind (a trick!) and know how to ingratiate themselves to very vulnerable children and young adults. The story about Kenneally is typical of many a community where men in authority and power in various groups and activities weaved their way into the lives of vulnerable children. I had such an experience of being groomed (14/15 yrs of age)but thank God I realised as a young teenager that the actions of my neighbour were very wrong. I got through it on my own, terrified and ashamed to tell anyone. That experience then gave me an instinct for such manipulative behaviour in "strange", ever-present men hanging around a Church I worked in. I brought my concerns to the relevant authorities and the issue was resolved, not to my satisfaction but at least I managed to remove these men from the Church property forever. So, we each have to be on the watch for any abuser in our midst - whoever it may be and irrespective of profession - and do the right thing. ABUSE IS ABUSE IS ABUSE...and is therefore a crime. I cannot make conclusive judgments about the issues raised by today's blog, but I can safely say that many in his community were aware but didn't quite know what to do and that powerful people (from all professions) may have prevented the possibility of reporting. Collusion undoubtedly with horrendous results. I hope survivors will be helped, cared for and given opportunities for telling their truth.
ReplyDeleteMournemanMichael:
DeleteUnderstanding of the recidivist nature of child sexual abuse,(ie. the cunningly deceptive manipulative behaviour of habitual abusers) only began to emerge in professional care circles in the 1970's. For example my own post grad Uni. Diploma in Child Care 1970/71 never even touched on the subject!
Thus as knowledge of abusive incidents emerged, they were seldom viewed as evidence of a pattern, or condition on the part of the abuser. Viewed in isolation, certainly by many in episcopal authority, they were seen as unfortunate lapses, not evidence of an underlying condition or predisposition. Episcopal authorities failed badly, and the extent that was from a 'rule of optimism' (naive belief in the best), moral cowardice, sheer ignorance of the underlying recidivist reality, a wish to "protect" the church, plus an absolute failure to understand the damaging consequences of abuse to victims: that's all open to ongoing debate.
Certainly the pattern of moving abusive priests from parish to parish evidences complete failure by the RC hierarchy in most respects.
Psychiatrists too had little understanding of the matter. In those days, much of the ongoing psychiatry debate on the nature of mental illness still focussed on whether it was organically or functionally derived. But the commendable medical instinct to "effect a cure" was totally misguided in attempting to "treat" sexual abusers. It is regrettable though that some medics overinflated view of their professional competence led them to exaggerate their misguided contribution, and the acquiescent 'subservient' professions allowed them to. It was actually the Probation service which largely led the way to understanding the nature of sexual abuse.
Some commentators remark on the need for a similarity of any approach to treatment for both alcoholics and sexual abusers. While making it clear there is no causal link between the two conditions, they point to there being little scope for successful recovery from chronic alcoholism until and unless the individual openly and fully acknowledges the condition and engages positively freely and cooperatively with avoidance strategies. So too with the sexual abuser. Any prospect of further abuse prevention can only be likely after full and frank admission of full culpability of all previous abuse, acknowledgement of personal propensity to further abuse, and acceptance to the deployment of clear strategies to avoid scenarios of potential abuse.
Our understanding is in a better place now. But it certainly seems that the clerical institutions lag far behind in acknowledging their failures. To what extent that is naive ignorance or seeking to 'protect' the establishment is a moot point for debate.
MMM
MMM at 14.40: Are you saying that the "professional" Bishops are the only culpable ones in their irresponsibilities in understanding the true nature of an abuser, clerical or otherwise? You do accept the lack of clinical research and psychiatric insight or understanding of the nature of recidivist behaviour by abusers, yet you keep your judgment for the Bishops only. Whatever way we view the history of abusers from any walk of life, I accept that the Church leadership did not act morally or rightly in their assessments or knowledge, however impoverished their insights. That cannot be an eexcuse. Nor can it be an excuse for any profession at any time. Our understanding is better now but in any era, ABUSE IS ABUSE and is a REPREHENSIBLE CRIME. But let's be critical of all disciplines of learning- psychology, psychiatry, medicine, theology, Canon law - and critical of all professions who protected themselves.
Delete@:14:40:
DeleteAs early as the mid-1950s,the founder of a religious order that dealt regularly with priest sex abusers was so convinced of their inability to change that he searched for an island to purchase with the intent of using it as a place to isolate such offenders. This is well documented.
Fr. Gerald Fitzgerald, founder of the Servants of the Paracletes, an order established in 1947 to deal with problem priests, wrote regularly to bishops and to Vatican officials, including the pope, of his opinion that many sexual abusers in the priesthood should be laicized immediately. Fitzgerald wrote regularly of his frustration with and disdain for priests "who have seduced or attempted to seduce little boys or girls.
Fitzgerald's convictions appear to significantly contradict the claims of contemporary bishops that the hierarchy was unaware until recent years of the danger in shuffling priests from one parish to another and in concealing the priests' problems from those they served.It is clear, too, in letters between Fitzgerald and a range of bishops, among bishops themselves, and between Fitzgerald and the Vatican, that the hierarchy was well aware of the problem and its implications well before the problem surfaced as a national story in America in the mid-1980s.For nearly two decades Fitzgerald spoke a rather consistent conviction about the dim prospects for returning sex abusers to ministry. Fitzgerald seemed to know almost from the start the danger such priests posed. He was adamant in his conviction that priests who sexually abused children should not be returned to ministry.
In a 1957 letter to Archbishop Edwin V. Byrne of Santa Fe, N.M., who was considered a cofounder of the Paraclete facility at Jemez Springs New Mexico and a good friend"It is for this class of rattlesnake I have always wished the island retreat -- but even an island is too good for these vipers of whom the Gentle Master said it were better they had not been born -- this is an indirect way of saying damned, is it not?"In a September 1952 letter to the then- bishop of Reno, Nev., offering advice about a problem priest, Fitzgerald wrote: "I myself would be inclined to favour laicization for any priest, upon objective evidence, for tampering with the virtue of the young, my argument being, from this point onward the charity to the Mystical Body should take precedence over charity to the individual and when a man has so far fallen away from the purpose of the priesthood the very best that should be offered him is his Mass in the seclusion of a monastery. Moreover, in practice, real conversions will be found to be extremely rare. ... Hence, leaving them on duty or wandering from diocese to diocese is contributing to scandal or at least to the approximate danger of scandal." The advice was ignored and the priest was allowed to continue in ministry, and was ultimately accused of abusing numerous children, for which the church paid out huge sums in court awards.In April 1962, Fitzgerald wrote a five-page response to a query from the Vatican's Congregation of the Holy Office about "the tremendous problem presented by the priest who through lack of priestly self-discipline has become a problem to Mother Church." In August of the following year, he met with newly elected Pope Paul VI to inform him about his work and problems he perceived in the priesthood. In 1965 Fitzgerald had put a $5,000 deposit on an island in Barbados, near Carriacou, in the Caribbean that had a total purchase price of $50,000. But the new bishop apparently wanted nothing to do with owning an island, and Fitzgerald, who died in 1969, was forced to sell his long-sought means for isolating priest sex offenders.
And before Bellarmine starts barking on about causing scandal,this information is in the public domain and the Church was well aware of their problem priests for generations.
MournemanMichael
DeleteOf course I'm not just blaming bishops, though admittedly they've much to answer for.
You've made good relevant points. Thanks.
MMM
Mad Magna Caca at 16:19
DeletePolly you give yourself away every time thats not a comment its one of your usual rants. You can't help yourself always having a nasty comment about me. I don't have to say anything about you causing scandal everything you post is scandalous.! Love and prayers B. Evviva Maria!
MournemanMichael.
DeleteMany thanks for that valuable information I was not aware of. I suppose it raises questions as to the extent Fitzgerald's insight was commonly known to the church hierarchy and/or the extent they dismissed or ignored it.
It seems a common trait for many in any hierarchical structure to assume that they know better than those beneath them in the pecking order.
MMM
@19:33;
DeleteYeah....sheer breathtaking arrogance!
Seems to go with the terrority!
@19:33: The hierarchy knew but had a policy of moving problem priests about or abroad. This was policy from the Vatican that Bishops world wide followed for years. There was no learning curve other than how to deal with the public knowing what was going on in the contemporary world with the www...etc.
DeleteIt’s well documented.
@19:10&16:19;
DeleteYou’re barking up the wrong tree again Bellarmine!
You seem to be obsessed with Polly!
Anonymous at 20:23
DeleteI don't think so unless you're an other one of Polly's alter ego's using all her phrases and those tedious rants that go on and on and on!
You seem to be obsessed by insulting me. Evviva Maria!
MournenanMichael to Bellarmine.
DeleteCan I ask you a straight question?
You end many of your insulting comments about Magna with what seems like a salutary "Love and prayers". Does that mean you really do pray for Magna with honesty and integrity? And that the "Love" being sent is a warm and genuine feeling of positivity and affection?
It's the contradiction between your constant final felicitations and your earlier comments I fail to understand. Perhaps you could kindly explain?
Thank you in anticipation.
MMM
MournemanMichael
DeleteThank you Anon @ 19:57.
If, as you say, it's well documented, and the evidence is available, that would seem to point towards church hierarchical collusion in covering up: all at the expense of victims past and potential, to 'protect' the RC church's vested interests.
Does that surprise, .......anybody?
MMM
@21:02; You’re obsessed with defending the indefensible and don’t seem to have ‘eyes to see or ears to hear’!!Try to make differentiations when it comes to HOLY MOTHER CHURCH.
DeleteWillothewisp at 22:45
DeleteYou ask about my insulting comments to Magna, I notice you don't say anything about his insults to me! If you read his comments full of hatred and disgusting language about The Holy Church I am always going to correct him as I fear for his immortal soul, I always pray for Magna poor lost soul during Holy Mass and in my prayers. I know I should not bring myself down to his level by making nasty comments about him, but I get so annoyed at his disgusting comments, it makes me retaliate, I hope you understand. I assure you I say The Memorare for him every day in the hope he will repent, I am sure he was a good person at one time, but is now so full of bitterness and his problem with the gargle is another reason he needs prayers. Evviva Maria!
@08:16;
DeleteYou're the one professing to be the Christian.
If prayers are simply said with the lips, but without genuine heartfelt charity, then they are merely empty words!
Anonymous at 00:02
DeleteIt's you who are obsessed with denigrating Our Holy Mother the Church. Your eyes and ears only see and hear what you want. I will always defend the The Holy Church against you and your likes. It is not the Church that is at fault but individuals, who do not follow Her teachings, I do not defend them.Evviva Maria!
MournemanMichael:
DeleteThank you Bellarmine.
I do wonder to what extent the prayers are said, as put by A @ 09:59, "with the lips".
You "hope I understand".
I fail to.
Your invariable final words appear more to me like a self excusatory mantra to make up for your earlier vitriol. That, in fact, is the only understanding I can make of it. And the "Evviva Maria" too seems part of that repetitious axiomatic conundrum.
MMM
@10:16; Well you're doing a good job of defending.... and not just Holy Mother Church teachings...the hierarchy... and not just evil infiltrators or individuals... have created a tsunami of scandal!
Delete@10:46; Well said...spot on!
Deletewillothewip at 10:36
DeleteSurprise! Surprise! you never answered my question about dear Magna's insults to me I take yo don't min them. I also knew that no matter what I said you would disagree and rubbish them. My prayers are from the heart not the lips you won't or don't want to understand. It's just what I expected from you. Lastly the salutation I use is one I've always used it expresses my devotion to The Immaculate Mother of God you wont understand that either. I don't care about what you think your post's show that you are just another anti Cathoic. Evviva Maria!
Anonymous at 09:59
DeleteI can tell you're not a christian, your prayers may be said with your lips, my prayers are from the heart. Evviva Maria!
Bellarmine at 08:16
DeleteGod bless you Dear Bellarmine, but I'm afraid it won't matter what you say these anti-catholic bigots won't accept. Just look who asked you the question, another of the dreadful Magnas cohorts you know The Mutual Admiration Society. Keep on defending the Church despite that shower of low-lifes.
@14:09; How can you tell I'm not a Christian?
DeleteWhy are you so defensive? You're the one banging on about Holy Mother Church and calling yourself a Trent catholic yet your comments at times are anything be Christian or Christlike!
Anonymous at 14:21
DeleteThank you, I certainly will always defend the Holy Church against those bigots. I agree with you about The Mutual Admiration Society all supporting each other but who cares they are all on the way to perdition, and the sooner the better, God bless you. Evviva Maria !
@16:45; Are you talking to yourself at this stage?
DeleteYou're very choosey about what posts you answer.
MournemanMichael:
DeleteBellarmine, you say: "they are all on the way to perdition, and the sooner the better."
Yet earlier in response you claimed to be "so concerned for Magna's immortal soul that you say the Memorare for him". Contradictions?
If you've ever studied psychiatry you would have been made aware that attempting rational debate with a paranoid personality is invariably ineffectual. No matter what reasonable and rational point is put across it is invariably interpreted so as to incorporate it into the web of paranoid fantasy inhabited by the delusional individual. I encountered it many times in my former professional capacity. Maybe I ought to have recognised the signs here, but just wanted to check to be sure before 'giving up all hope' for any good sense.
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DeleteI am still waiting on your response to my question. you go on about my insults to the dreadful Magna but what is you opinion on her insults to my person? Evviva Maria!
Hi Stephen and Brendan how are ye girls?
ReplyDeleteGrand, just sprawled out on an altar down in Cork here, how are things yourself?
Delete11.51: Why do you always trivialize serious issues with this prepubescent behaviour? Grow up - develop a proper pair of b***s! Act like 'men'..
DeleteIt's the Maynooth Sissy again I'm afraid. Pat is just as childish for publishing it.
DeleteI don't think any Gaynooth cabal members can call anyone a sissy.
DeleteI have nothing to do with Maynooth or any cabal Pal. Sorry to disappoint you. What category do you fall into - the gobshites perhaps.
DeleteListen Cabal Pal, the truth is revolting but the truth will set you free.
Delete@16.01 I was wondering how long it would take you along with your usual "Hi Brendan, hi Stephen" infantile spake to finish with your usual tedious and childish, "truth will set you free" mantra. You've proved my point, thank you. Tells us more about Pat Buckleys mentality for him to insist on publishing this crap. Not surprised so many have abandoned posting on this blog recently.
Delete@11:47; Well said....so true.
ReplyDeletePat. A question. Although a priest of a far south diocese did The infamous Fr James Grennan ever serve in Larne
ReplyDeleteThe abuses in the psychiatric system in this country is another scandalous dark chapter in Irish life that hasn't seen the light of day simply because this appallingly abusive system is still operating in plain sight with powerful vested interests propping it up.
ReplyDeleteThanks be to God for Pat
ReplyDeleteHi Pat. Following the visit of the Scottish Laity Network to the Nuncio in London 3 weeks ago, the minutes of which you exclusively shared on here, I am told that the Nuncio has also now met with a group of disillusioned Clergy. I suspect there will be no minutes of that meeting and the names of those who attended will be reported back to +Leo no doubt. Why won’t the Vatican listen to lay People and Clergy about the state of the RC Church in Scotland, particularly St Andrews and Edinburgh. It is in a total mess, probably even worse than in Ireland (yes really that bad). Is the only way forward to encourage people to stop going to Mass and withhold financial support, or would you recommend another course of action. PS The Nuncio seems to be nice enough, but apart from submitting 3 names to the Vatican when there is a vacancy for a Bishop, pitching up at Bishop’s installations and attending posh dinners, what on earth do they do all day? They have no say, no power and seem to be a waste of space.
ReplyDeleteMournemanMichael
DeleteWhile your query is addressed to +Pat, on reading back blog comments here you will find much support for the withdrawal of financial support to the clergy. I would add: all of them at every level. Only then will they take notice
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The Scottish Laity Network - the very name is just laughable lol. You beefed up your big meeting with the Nuncio by leaking the minutes to this blog - Where did you think that was going? Then you ask Buckley on advice about what to do next - obviously your meeting with said Nuncio proved successful- not- lol. Do you not realise how embarrassing and cringeworthy you sound? I put it to you Sir that you are indeed the waste of space and your sad network bunch. I think the Nuncio, if he had any sense, would have dumped your findings in the bottom of the bin so it can find itself outwith the walls and city.
Delete1815. You raise some good points. I am a Priest in said Archdiocese and I decided only this month that enough is enough and I am retiring a few years early as others have done. I promised to obey my Bishop, but I just cannot continue to do so. He has a difficult task ahead, but unfortunately he or most of the other hierarchy in Scotland do not have the Pastoral experience required to do the job effectively and I told him that. +Keith Patrick committed (and repented for his) many sins, but at least he knew how to treat the Clergy and lay faithful. The things I know about how this Diocese is being governed would make your skin crawl, so time for me to get out. I dare not say anything else or they will stop my financial support. God bless you +Pat for the work you are trying to do here. Holy Mass will be offered for you on a Sunday morning.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 19:15
DeleteK.O.B. certainly knew how to treat the clergy, are you mad, we all know now how he treated his clergy disgraceful, what a hypocrite he was. And as for you saying God bless p buckley for the work he does. Thank God you're going Edinburgh will be lucky to get rid of you.
19:15
DeleteFriend, Thank you.
Feel free to get in touch if you feel like it.
Pat
@19:15; I wish you well in your retirement and may the good Lord be your consolation. Bishop Pat, in my view, is providing the Church and the People of God with a very valuable prophetic service/ministry.
Delete"... at least he knew how to treat the clergy and lay faithful."
DeleteHe would have made an excellent peep show janitor; a low-paying, unsavory profession entailing the cleaning of the booths where patrons enter to watch a peep show.
@19:15
DeleteYou'll be able to spend more time at The Mound and in the gay bars.
19:15, your post underlines my conviction, already stated a number of times on this blog, that there can be no such thing as a good priest's similtaneously being a good person.
DeleteA good priest is one who is loyal to the institutional Church through his vow of obedience to a mere man (his bishop) rather than to Christ.
A good priest is one who effectively cashes in his conscience on the day of his ordination by vowing to obey a bishop.
You clearly know much more that is morally rotten in your diocese's governance than you are prepared to admit here, or anywhere else; and you will not make this confession in order to protect your 'financial support'.
Every priest (including you) has allowed his conscience to be compromised by allowing his hands to be tied (at one time, symbolically so as part of the ordination rite) through filial and financial dependency on one of the most evil and criminal institutions in human history, the Roman Catholic Church.
I wonder how much more evil will be perpetrated through your silence; how many will be hurt through your concern to protect your 'financial support'?
At heart, Roman Catholic priests are moral cowards. But remember, dear Fathers, it was each of you who willingly, and from self-interest, offered your hands for anointing with 'holy' oil on that deeply unholy day.
Bp Pat, I read in the Sun, "hookers beg school run dads for £30 alleyway romps and say: ‘Rush hour’s our best time’."
ReplyDeleteI think this will now catch on with the priests, especially as they will do it for free.
15.03. There was a Fr Grennan who was on short term placement in larne in 1959/60. I don’t know if it was the same guy. He baptised ne
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