Sunday, 8 July 2018

Jesus founded a movement led by both women and men


Sometimes it is really difficult to be both female and Catholic.
On the one hand, I couldn't be prouder of the creative leadership taken by the University of Notre Dame and Pope Francis in working with oil executives to address climate change. It is amazing that dozens of Catholic institutions, including Caritas Internationalis, have divested from fossil fuels.
On the other hand, I am dismayed by yet another statement from the Vatican — this time from Cardinal-designate Luis Ladaria — prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith — about the non-ordination of women to the priesthood.
I have been tracking Vatican statements on women priests since the 1970s. They are invariably ahistorical and biblically naive. It is embarrassing. Worse, they bear false witness to the Jesus of history and are ultimately destructive to the body of Christ, especially the distaff side.


MARY MAGDALA

As a contribution to the ongoing conversation about women's roles in our church, I present here a few examples from mainstream scholarship about Jesus and the female exercise of authority in early Christianity.
Consider this from Ladaria's statement: "Christ willed to confer this sacrament on the 12 apostles — all men — who, in turn, communicated it to other men. The church always has seen itself as bound to this decision of the Lord, which excludes that the ministerial priesthood can be conferred validly on women."
Biblical scholars have long known that Jesus did not intend to found a new church led by 12 men, but to reform his own Judaic tradition. As such, the Twelve were meant to represent the new 12 tribes of Israel. They were not called to offer animal sacrifice at the Jerusalem Temple, as priesthood was understood in Jesus' day.
That Jesus included women in his itinerant Galilean discipleship is undisputed. Luke 8:1-3 tells us that Mary of Magdala, Joanna, Susanna "and many other women" accompanied him around Galilee. With Mary and Elizabeth, women were present and active in Jesus' life and ministry from womb to empty tomb. With Mary of Magdala, they were the first to proclaim the good news of Jesus' resurrection-victory over the powers of death.
From the first century, we see a repeating pattern of women exercising ecclesial authority in the growth of early Christianity:


PHILIP'S DAUGHTERS

·         Women founded and led house church communities (LydiaPriscaNymphaMary of JerusalemTabitha);
·         Prophesied (Philip's daughtersCorinthian women);
·         Taught male evangelists (Prisca);
·         Functioned as apostles (JuniaMary of Magdala), benefactors and envoys (Phoebe);
·         Probably led communities in Philippi as episcopoi and diaconoi (Euodia and Syntyche). (It should be noted that episcopoi and diakonoi cannot simply be translated as "bishops" and "deacons" as we understand these church offices today. The titles do, however, indicate an important leadership function.)
Paul's letters are the earliest historical documents we have. From him, we learn more about the title "apostle." Writing between A.D. 40 and 60, Paul uses the word "apostle" inclusively to describe his own mission to the gentiles as well as that of other missionaries. In Romans 16:7, he calls Andronicus and Junia (a married missionary couple) "prominent among the apostles." 
Twenty years later, after the fall of Jerusalem (A.D. 80-85), Luke's Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles reflect a growing struggle over who may exercise authority in the early church. Luke names three requirements for replacing the apostle Judas:
"Therefore, it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection" (Acts 1:21-22).

Luke's new criteria stipulate that apostles must be male, part of Jesus' original discipleship, and eyewitnesses to the Resurrection. They guarantee that the individual title of apostle will die out as the original witnesses die.
Further, prominent leaders such as Paul, Mary of Magdala, James of Jerusalem, Junia and Andronicus no longer qualify as "apostles." Ironically, third- and fourth-century churchmen will claim the authority of the apostles in imposing new church orders that exclude women from leadership.
Sadly, the practice continues to the present day.
Yet archaeologists and church historians point to gender balance in the exercise of authority in the early communities. For example, "ordination" as a "presbyter" (as priests were called at the time) did not take shape until long after Jesus' death and resurrection. And there is compelling literary and inscriptional evidence that in the fourth and fifth centuries, women held presbyteral titles. These early presbyters were the precursors of today's priests, and the evidence suggests that in some early communities both women and men functioned in these roles.
Ladaria's contention that a male-only priesthood belongs to the "substance of the sacrament" and cannot be changed because Christ instituted the sacrament is another example of the ahistorical nature of current Vatican formulations.


SUSANNA

The Christian understanding of sacrament did not become part of church teaching until the Middle Ages. It is the product of later reflection by exclusively male members of the body of Christ. This is not to say that sacraments are not a central part of Catholic teaching, as well as a beautiful way of describing the action of God in our lives. It is to say that this theological construct did not have the benefit of the Spirit-guided insights of the female members of Christ's body.
It is perhaps for this reason that Cardinal Christoph SchΓΆnborn, in an Easter interview with the Austrian publication Die Presse, called for a new council to discuss the matter :
One of the key questions is the role of women in the church. In this, religious organizations as a whole are in need of development. ... The question of ordination is a question that surely can only be settled by a council. A pope cannot decide this by himself. This is too large a question for it to be settled from the desk of a pope.
If Pope Francis can convene an international meeting of leaders to counter global warming, surely he can convene an international gender-balanced council to address the sexism and misogyny that have plagued our church for millennia.


SISTER CHRISTINE SCHENK


[St. Joseph Sr. Christine Schenk served urban families for 18 years as a nurse midwife before co-founding Future Church, where she served for 23 years. She holds master's degrees in nursing and theology.]

PAT SAYS:

Women should be ordained as priests.

I ordained a woman in 1998.

The current system of hierarchy and priesthood is a man-made system.

Jesus never intended a hierarchical and clerical caste.

I agree that women were equal "ministers" in the original church.

The ordination of women will happen in the RC church in the future.

It will be preceded by celibacy becoming optional.


Ordaining women would be a very effective way of sorting out the current "Gay Club" priesthood problem.

77 comments:

  1. Would God smite the soul of a man who believes just because he heard the gospel message from a woman?

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  2. Yes, that's just what we need in the RC Church, rough butch Lesbians strutting their stuff on the altar. What an appalling vista!

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    1. 06:57 Chauvinism and sexism all in one.

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    2. Well, Jeremy, it would balance the preponderance of, er, not-as-rough male celebrants mincing around our altars these days.πŸ˜†

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  3. You say that ordaining woman would sort out the current Gay Club priesthood problem. Are you having a laugh? It would only turn it into "Dyke Central"! get a grip.

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    1. Most of the Anglican women priests I've come across were wives and husbands.

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    2. 10 15. Pat, I have no difficulty with concept of women priests or deacons. It's a reality that will happen one day. When, I'm not sure but the Catholic Church will require very radical shifts in thinking on the Sharing in the Priesthood of Christ into which we are drawn through baptism. Yes, we are each gifted differently but I believe that Jesus would have no problem in allowing any woman to be a priest as presently envisioned. In fact women's energy, understanding, compassion, imagination and creativity would profoundly enrich our communities. The insults being traded today do an injustice to women and do not further positive debate. Pat, why have you not attracted women to ministry?

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    3. I do not seek to attract anyone to ministry.

      I do not look for "vocations".

      I respond to requests for ordination or membership of The Oratory Society.

      Anyone I have ordained approached me.

      I seek to provide alternatives for those who ask.

      I have no desire to build a Buckleyite empire.

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    4. Morning, Big B. .πŸ˜†

      'Dyke Central'? Was Mary a 'dyke'? Because it was she who graciously permitted the first incarnate Christ (the body of Jesus) to enter our world. No so-called 'priest' today has that authority.

      In this sense, Mary WAS priest. And in a model sense that none of the clerical parasites and spongers today could even hope to emulate, especially those mired in sexual scandal.

      Why do you hate women so much, Big B.? That you think of female candidates for ordination as 'dykes'? Why must they be 'dykes' in your eyes?πŸ˜†

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    5. Afternoon Magna Dear!

      Just like you to use a pejorative word when referring to The Immaculate Mother of God, to whom I have great devotion.
      Also you assertion that I hate woman is incorrect. My reason for using that title was observation when you see the lefty feminist types prattling on about women's ordination they are invariably dressed like "Dykes" short back and sides etc. you'll know what I mean like! And by the way it is not licit for any woman to be a candidate for ordination don't you know.

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    6. Patsy at 10:15

      Yes Patsy and most probably "Lavender" marriages, know what I mean? The heretics have their problam's too!

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    7. Big B., I am delighted to disillusion you about your self-proclaimed 'great devotion' to Mary. No one (including you) who uses such a pejorative and homophobic word as 'dyke' has even the slightest devotion to Mary.

      Enjoy your self-deception...but you will be awakened from it one day.

      If you refuse to be awakened...😈

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    8. Magna Dear! I'm delighted to return the compliment the last person that could disillusion me, is you. If you think that the ranting of an apostate whose self-deception as a know it all would matter to me, let me disillusion you. It is your own self-deception that you need to be awakened from. It will happen when you stand at The Judgement Seat and hear the words"Depart ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" Love the selfie I' sure it's a great likeness EVIVA MARIA!

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    9. God writes straight with crooked lines.

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    10. 13:30 You a disservice to Roberto Bellarmino by attempting to usurp his mantle.

      If, as you say, you have a great devotion to Mary, you wouldn’t be emitting bile and prejudice.

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    11. 15.43: Magna, your crooked lines are heading in one direction - not heavenwards! Baaaaaaa, baaaaaa.

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    12. Amonymous at 16:08

      I see you've gone anonymous again Magna but you give yourself away by your choice of words. Its the prejudice you have against The Holy Church and the bile you spew in you're comments just watch you don' choke on it.
      You can't even bring yourself to give St Robert his Title as a Saint and the Same with Our Blessed Lady you can only say "Mary" I only wish we had someone like St Robert to sort out the shambles we have now in the Church and restore it to Glory! EVIVA MARIA

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    13. 17:38
      You're delusional, I'm afraid. If you could write English correctly your contribution might be slightly more persuasive.

      You're also presumptuous. I've nothing to do with MC and always scroll past her/his comments.


      The great Bellarmino would not recognise your self-declared devotion to Mary (the highest way of referring to Jesus' mother, as the NT refers to her) because it's accompanied by peevish expressions of intolerance.

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    14. Anonymous at 20:42

      You are being very presumptuous in stating that I am Delusional, if you have nothing to do with MC you certainly use the same words.
      And don't you mean The Great Santo Roberto Bellarmino? I also think youv'e forgotten that the NT say's in the Magnificat "All generations shall call me Blessed" I detect that you are very peevish and intolerant of others. EVIVA MARIA!

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  4. 06.57 I think there will soon be women deacons. Most of the work in parishes is done by women. There is no reason that women should not do weddings, funerals or baptisms. They already do funerals in the diocese of Liverpool.

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  5. VI. WHO CAN RECEIVE THIS SACRAMENT?

    1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination."66 The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.67 The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.68

    1578 No one has a right to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders. Indeed no one claims this office for himself; he is called to it by God.69 Anyone who thinks he recognizes the signs of God's call to the ordained ministry must humbly submit his desire to the authority of the Church, who has the responsibility and right to call someone to receive orders. Like every grace this sacrament can be received only as an unmerited gift.

    - CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

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    1. Catechism of the Catholic Church, 09:04? And written by whom? C'mon! Make an educated guess.

      Why, traditionally written by mysogynistic men, of course!

      As for the so-called 'Sacrament of Holy Orders', God calls candidates to it?😲 Are you serious?! Men like 'King Puck'?

      Historically, the younger sons of the aristocracy would become priests as a career move, since they couldn't hope to inherit property and wealth. This gibberish, that God calls men to the priesthood, is clericalist nonsense designed to enhance the status of these spongers in their communities.πŸ˜†

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    2. Because canon 1577 is so poorly argued (confusing ‘the twelve’ with ‘the apostles’) it will be easy to change it. The former category was a symbolic one to express continuity of the Jesus movement with Israel. The latter referred to any disciple who was sent on mission and included every woman thus missioned.

      As some cardinal quipped to another who was objecting to lifting the ban on artificial birth control on the grounds that so many had already gone to hell on that score ‘Surely you dont believe, Eminence, that the good Lord obeyed all of your decrees.’
      ��

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    3. Magna @11.06. Don’t often agree you but you are bang on the money with this post!

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  6. Absolutely will never happen in the current Leadership of the True Church and will continue under the next Pope.
    It has and will continue into the future that Women will Never be Priest's in the Roman Catholic Church.
    And there will Never be same sex marriages in the Roman Catholic Church.
    Even the Presbyterian Church in Ireland and Wales has fallen out with the Church of Scotland over same sex marriage.
    Pat Buckley's Wedding's and Ordinations are only for his organisation they are Not recognised by any other Church.

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    1. My weddings and ordination s are recognised by the state and by other churches.

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    2. 09:10 To discover the 'true church' you need a time machine to transport you right back to the first century.πŸ˜…

      What we know today is true only to the spirit of this world.πŸ˜†

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    3. Pat, which states and 'Other' Churches actually recognise your weddings and ordinations?

      How does one become a member of the Oratory Society and what of the Little Brothers vocational interests?

      Please advise on all of the above.

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  7. "Biblical scholars have long known that Jesus did not intend to found a new church led by 12 men, but to reform his own Judaic tradition."

    If this is the case, why on earth would Schenk and friends want anything at all to do with the Roman Church, let alone want to be ordained within it? Why the obsession with a Church that you claim Jesus never wanted in the first place?

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    1. Maybe the hope of returning to the "church" Jesus intended?

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    2. Well if she thinks Jesus intended to reform his own Judaic tradition, why is she not a Jew trying to reform the Judaic tradition? If Jesus did not intend to found a new Church - i.e. that the Catholic Church was never his intention - then no matter how much it is reformed it will never be as Jesus intended because it would have been wrong from the beginning.

      No, Pat, I think there is a more insidious agenda at play here for Schenk and Friends.

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    3. 10:54 The fact you 'think' there is an 'insidious agenda at play here for Schenk and Friends (sic)' is, without substantiation, proof of nothing except wild assertion.

      What evidence have you for your claim?πŸ˜†

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    4. The proof is what I have just cited, Magna. If Christ did not intend to found a Church - which Schenk herself claims - then why demand reform of something which was wrong from the beginning? Why is she even involved in an organisation she claims Jesus never intended?

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    5. 12:18 Christ did not intend to found the institutional Roman Catholic Church, which (because of its corrupt nature) has spawned every other Christian denomination.

      Jesus gathered disciples as the visible symbol of the fulfilment of the Old Testament covenant between God and his people. This quintessential feature remains at the heart of Roman Catholicism and can never be removed from it, since its essence is the spirit of God himself. Therefore 'Schenk and Friends' are in precisely the right place, hoping, working and praying to re-discover the central element of their faith.

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  8. MourneManMichael9 July 2018 at 10:46

    I like your pithy response Anon @ 09:32, and concur with your assessment. The description used by 06:57 certainly indicates an attitude, but not one I would wish to be associated with. But seeing it was a very early morning comment, maybe "wrong side of the bed" could explain. MMM

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  9. If we insist on a priestly caste (though I don'tπŸ˜†), then Mary was the very first priest in both Judaistic and Christian senses.

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    1. She was certainly the first to give the Body of Christ to others.

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  10. 10.46: Not the real MMM. Pat, since you have only one woman ordained -(illicitly) - that surely poses the question - why haven't women flocked to your Church? Why isn't your community growing? Handful of ex priests and religious, one "ordained" woman? Where is she ministering? There are hundreds of young men and women joining religious orders in the USA - highly skilled, professional and qualified people who find the discipline of daily prayer, academic studies, good liturgy, community living, a definite mission and vision all very attractive and meaningful. The men and women in these orders show imaginative leadership and witness to genuine renewal.

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    1. He is the real MMM and using the code I have him.

      I am not very in touch with what's happening in the US but I seriously doubt your assertions.

      Here, most of the people joining dioceses or orders are sexually promiscuous gay men.

      20 in Maynooth that used to have 600.

      58 French dioceses have no ordination this year.

      I think you are fooling yourself.

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    2. Hundreds of young men and women joining religious orders in the USA?

      Evidence?

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    3. MourneManMichael9 July 2018 at 11:44

      Anon@11:09: And your evidence is.....? Do help us to agree by indicating your evidence. You only say "joining religious orders". What kind, denomination or sect? From what I've seen on TV, there's some very odd "religious orders" over the Pond. The real MMM

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    4. MMM - at 11.44: What's your problem? Go and explore religious Orders USA - you might educate yourself first instead of your typical condescending "evidence please" attitude. Why are you seemingly upset? You are an atheist, so I'm sure it doen't really concern you as to why some orders are attracting very professional people. Do a little research....

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  11. FRANCE Wikipedia

    Estimates of the proportion of Catholics range between 41% and 88% of France's population, with the higher figure including lapsed Catholics and "Catholic atheists".[2][3] The Catholic Church in France is organised into 98 dioceses, which in 2012 were served by 7,000 sub-75 priests.[4] 80 to 90 priests are ordained every year, when the church would need eight times as many to compensate the number of priest deaths. Approximately 45,000 Catholic church buildings and chapels are spread out among 36,500 cities, towns, and villages in France, but a majority are no longer regularly used for mass.

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  12. Why doesn't the trouser-suited old trout join the Episcopalians where there are plenty of priestesses?

    Cos she'd lose the agreeable lifestyle funded by the sheep of the Church she clearly detests.

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  13. Instead of worrying about women priests, Schenk should be asking why no young women have joined orders such as hers for decades, yet orthodox houses thrive, eg the St Celelia OPs in Nashville, who have come to Ireland.

    https://www.nashvilledominican.org/

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    1. 13:53 Why are you preoccupied with headcounts?πŸ˜• Do they really mean anything at all except as an indication of personal preference for service and worship? That's all they really mean.

      Quantity doesn't necessarily indicate quality. Let's face it: the kind of 'orthodoxy' you hanker after was the norm before Vat II. And yet, we had priests and religious sexually abusing children; we had cover-up and general corruption in the Church, all swept under a massive carpet of evil, clerical indifference and self-preservation. At least today we have greater awareness, and greater safeguards to protect the most vulnerable. And again yet, you wish to turn back the clock to those, very dark ages.

      What a very odd poster you are!πŸ˜†

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    2. Did you not request evidence in your post at 11:16, Magna?

      "Hundreds of young men and women joining religious orders in the USA?

      Evidence?"

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    3. Evidence of what, 14:59? Of pervert priests in the Roman Catholic Church in your prized, wistful, golden age of orthodoxy?

      Ever heard of Father Gerald Fitzgerald and the order he founded in 1947, Servants of the Paraclete? It was established to treat priests with issues, including the sexual abuse of children.

      Eventually, even the idealistic Fitzgerald had to admit defeat with these 'holy' priests in your golden age of institutional Roman Catholicism. He recommended that an island be purchased by the Church and these disgusting perverts live on it...well out of harm's way. He even pleaded to Paul VI that these men were not ill, just evil. But it all fell on deaf ears.

      There are documents (or, at least, copies of them) from as early as the 4th century, instructing what should be done with clerics who sexually offend with young people.

      Open your eyes, for if you don't, they will one day be prised open.

      Human nature, and its moral vices, do not change.πŸ˜†

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    4. So why did you bother asking for evidence? When the evidence comes you dismiss these people (the religious vocations) as perverts.

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    5. The abuse peaked in the 80s and 90s and the Murphy Report concluded that the collapse of the application of Canon Law contributed sharply to the abuse crisis in Dublin.

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    6. 14.23: Indeed Magna, headcounts are not that important but they give an indication of interest and commitment. Some religious Orders in the States are attracting huge numbers of vocations: Nashville Dominican Sisters; Mary, Mother of the Eucharist: The Dominicans; Franciscan Sisters of various Apostolates; Sisters for Life; Franciscans of the Renewal, Men and Women Communities. Certainly these Orders and others have very fruitful vocations drawing people from very skilled, professional and academically qualified backgrounds.

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  14. As a non religious person who follows the golden rule im splitting my sides reading all the stuff on here with the “biblical’ experts splitting hairs on the whys and wherefores of an old manuscrip. Also all the nonsense around man made ‘church protecting’ canon law. What a heehaw! And to think people are actually get their knickers in a twist over all this empty froth.
    Had they spent more time on proper study into things like medicine or social or real community matters or better still live by the Golden Rule ( do unto others as you would wish done unto you) then the world would be a much better place!

    Dalriada Dick

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    1. MourneManMichael9 July 2018 at 15:06

      Amen to that DD. Like you I hold little respect for the meaningful relevance of biblical studies. It's fine for those so inclined to study and debate the meaning and authenticity or otherwise of that mish mash of ancient texts either in whatever survives of the original texts, language or the dubious translated versions of them, ........but only, in my view, as an academic exercise. But perhaps like you, I regard it as ridiculous when biblical texts are quoted as if the God Being had dictated His wishes to a trusted respected scribe capable of accurately transcribing His words and intentions as a guide for humanity.And ultimately I'm obliged as a rational being to question that, if there is a supreme God, why does He/She/It choose such a convuluted communication mode of guidance that even biblical scholars disagree on its interpretation and relevance. Surely if God gave us intelligence we should use it: not just submit to blind faith? MMM

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    2. If you think the Bible is a single manuscript, you have proof positive of the pathetic standard of biblical studies among the public at large.

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    3. Prolix comment alert @ 15:06

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  15. I'm having quite a lot of difficulty as past few days posting. Are there technical issues/security issues

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    1. I was having similar difficulties a while ago. When I tried to post, the comment just disappeared (into the ether, probably).πŸ˜•

      I remedied it by clicking on 'Publish' towards the bottom of my device, a Samsung tablet. It works 98% of the time.

      You could give this a try.

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    2. My comments have disappeared when trying to post too. What disturbed me was when the comment disappeared it redirected me to another page connected to this blog it says giving me the current location of where I was posting from on my Tablet. I don’t know what’s going on. It hasn’t done so today but I got redirected to this other page several times over this past week.

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    3. Over the last few days when I googled the blog to view it my computer has told me of security threat in viewing this blog. I tried it on work computer just now and got no warnings. Seems weird.

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  16. I guess we just have to wait and see. You are Peter. One day it will all be settled, Heaven or Hell.

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  17. Pat, a good news story...All tickets for all the events surrounding WMOF are sold! Despite the nasty, infantile, bullying and selfish efforts of some to prevent this happening, the organisers are overwhelmed with the response. Pope Francis has very powerful charisma and no one else could ever draw such a crowd of people. I hope we will afford him the respect and tolerance which he deserves. What a very inspiring truth that all tickets are now sold!

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  18. Hi Pat, do you like me? Are you my friend?

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    1. Of course I like you and you are my friend 😎

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  19. I wonder if good owl Dermo will make the Priest appointments known before or after the Popes visit. Guess we shall wait and see. Ferns Appointments on their website and Armaghs Amy ones a big secret.

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  20. Pat likes to pretend that all views are welcome on his blog but yesterday he would not publish my comment about flags in Anglican churches in NI. That's because it does not suit Pat's agenda that the Catholic church = bad; everyone else = good.

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  21. I see that the Jesuits are winding up the husk of Milltown Park, seat of much heterodoxy for all the good it's done them. The Jesuits are "renewing" themselves out of existence and I won't shed a tear.

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    1. 19:19
      Would you like to cite chapter and verse of just a single instance to substantiate your defamatory remark!

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  22. 20.17: I agree with you re: poster at 19 19. What an ignorant, defamatory remark. Let that poster explain his crass comment or is he just engaging in deliberate insult, hatred and bigotry? He should educate himself.

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    1. This week's Irish Catholic reports that the Jesuits are kicking out tenants in the buildings of the defunct Milltown Institute. It has gone the way of the Vincentians All Hallows and will soon be followed by Heythrop. All three were/are bywords for heterodoxy.

      Cara at Georgetown (SJ) gives chapter and verse on how the SJs are kaput. Their high water mark was 1965; all downhill since then. Even in the developing world the trends so apparent in the US and Europe are emerging strongly.

      http://nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2015/01/by-numbers-jesuit-demography.html?m=1

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  23. Pat, have you any way of finding out if Sean Page is ok?

    Whoever “reported” him (if that’s what actually happened) should be ashamed. He was one of the least offensive commentators on here and one of the rare ones who identifies himself.

    When one considers faceless and anonymous “contributors” like “Magna Carta” et al, Sean was never nasty or abusive.

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    1. '...faceless and anonymous contributors...'? What? Like you, ANONYMOUS?

      I swear some of you people are seriously intellectually challenged.

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    2. Yes, “Magna Carta”, FACELESS AND ANONYMOUS! Just like YOU! (Did I touch a nerve?)

      Not in the least “intellectually challenged” but quite deliberately and unapologetically ANONYMOUS - like almost EVERYONE who posts here.

      I wonder why that is? That no one gives their name? INCLUDING YOU!

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  24. MourneManMichael10 July 2018 at 08:44

    So this ad hominem response is your evidence? Very impressive Anon@ 22:51 Thanks. MMM

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