Thursday, 8 September 2016

MAYNOOTH - "I FOUND LOVE"

MAYNOOTH - "I FOUND LOVE"


A YOUNG PRIEST WRITES..................

"I have been very disturbed about all the recent controversy on this blog and in the media in general about homosexuality in Maynooth.

I have not been disturbed because it has been revealed that there is and has been gay sexual activity among the seminarians. I personally know that this is very common.

Rather I am disturbed and upset because of the portrayal of all gay activity in Maynooth between seminarians as Grindr focused and lust focused with the total neglect of the fact that some seminarians who are gay find love, and the love of their life in Maynooth, as I did.



I am a relatively recent graduate and ordinand of Maynooth and I now work as a priest in a parish. I have known that I was gay since I was thirteen and have always been 100% comfortable with my sexual orientation. I did not have a sexually intimate encounter with another male before I entered Maynooth. I would have been open to it but in my case it just did not happen. Unfortunately I had to lie about my sexual orientation during the assessment process in Maynooth as I was advised by others that if I told the truth I would not have been accepted. I was also told to lie during interviews in Maynooth with staff members if they asked me about my sexuality. In any event I did not think it was any of their business. I was quizzed about aspects of my sexuality on a number of occasions. 

While I was in Maynooth I did explore the internet and internet gay sites but never actually met anyone in this way. I never used the now infamous Grindr app. 

I had a very small number of sexual encounters with other seminarians and I had one sexual encounter with a Maynooth University lay student. I regarded these as "natural" and did not regard them as a matter to mention in Confession - although I was completely open about them with my priest spiritual director.

Then I became close to a fellow seminarian. Our relationship had sexual aspects but as it deepened it became clear to both of us that were were falling in love.  

Neither of us are effeminate in any way and we always have been very discreet. Eventually we were both ordained and we both work in parish ministry. Our relationship has only deepened since ordination and I believe that we are both good priests. Our parents do not know of our relationship but some of our siblings do and they have no problem with it. We manage to visit each other very regularly and talk on the mobile telephone several times a day. We spend our days off together and go on holidays together. We also pray together. 

In Maynooth we had the same spiritual director and were quite open with him about our discreet relationship. He agreed with us that the celibacy law of the Church is both a man made law and in fact an "unjust" law and that morally speaking people are not bound by unjust laws. We both regretted  having to "lie" during our ordination ceremonies about the celibacy promise but we felt that God was calling us both to serve him and that this call was "superior" to a man made and unjust mandate. 

We both know priests who are very promiscuous and active on Grindr and on gay internet sites like Gaydar and while we do not judge them harshly we are far happier that our relationship is love centred and not lust centred. In fact the sexual part of our relationship is one of the minor parts and as time progresses we are finding that the most important parts are the friendship and companionship. 

We know that there are other priests and Catholic lay people who would condemn us for our relationship but as I say we are extremely discreet and want to be judged by God and not by others. 

Pat, it has taken me quite a number of weeks to write this to you, albeit anonymously, but I wanted to stress the fact that not all gay seminarians and priests are promiscuous or on Grindr and that some are being true to how God made them but living out their nature in love, as best they can.

PAT SAYS:

Father, Thank you for writing this to me. It certainly is thought provoking and does ask us to think more deeply about the question of gay men in the priesthood who also have a need of love and affection.

I once spoke to a priest of Westminster Diocese who went to Cardinal Basil Hume to tell him that he was gay and in a partnership. Cardinal Hume gave him tea and talked to him about all kinds of others matters. When Cardinal Hume left him to the door at the end of their meeting he squeezed his arm and said to him: "You will be discreet Father".

So your situation is not unique among priests and even among bishops.

I imagine that there are quite a number of priests and bishops in the same situation as you and your partner.

I also imagine that there are quite a number of bishops who know about such relationships in their dioceses and are content to leave well enough alone - as long as those involved are "discreet".

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FATHER BRENDAN COLLINS - DERRY:


Recently on the Blog we carried the story of Father Brendan Collins of Derry - the curate of Longtower Parish - who is just 3 years ordained taking a sabbatical - since sabbaticals are always reserved for priests who have done 20 or more years in the ministry.

One reader reprimanded us for not making it clear that it was a one year sabbatical and that the Derry Clerical Changes stated that he would be taking up an appointment again in 2017.

One Longtower parishioner has been in touch with us to say that he gave them the impression he would not be back in 2017?

Maybe Father Collins or someone else could let us know whether this is true or not. We only mention it as it is a matter of great public interest that such a young priest - after such a short time in the ministry - is taking a sabbatical.

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ENGLISH ORDINATIONS IN LATIN:





Ordinations in the Extraordinary Form will take place in England and Wales possibly for the first time in decades next year.
At the request of the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter (FSSP) and with the permission of Archbishop Malcolm McMahon of Liverpool, two deacons will be ordained to the priesthood on June 17.
The ordinations will take place at St Mary’s Shrine Church in Warrington, North West England.
Writing in the Catholic Herald this week, Fr Armand de Malleray, superior of FSSP in England and Wales, said: “This could be the first time for decades that priests will be ordained in the Extraordinary Form in England. While more bishops worldwide do so – even in their own cathedrals, as in Sydney, Lincoln and Omaha, Toulon and Linz – it does not seem to have occurred over here since the liturgical changes.


“St Mary’s Shrine Church is a fitting place for the ceremony, due to its beautiful Pugin design and because Archbishop McMahon has established it as ‘a centre for the celebration of the Extraordinary Form of Mass and the sacraments’.”
The candidates due to be ordained are Alex Stewart, from Wallasey, and Krzysztof Sanetra, who was born in Poland in 1983 but has been resident in England for some time.
Joseph Shaw, chairman of the Latin Mass Society, said: “This is an important step forward for the integration of the Extraordinary Form into the life of the Church in England and Wales. Many young men from this country have heard the call to serve the Church as priests in the context of the Extraordinary Form, and they are making a valued contribution to the Catholic community in specially dedicated churches or chaplaincies in five different dioceses.
“It is natural and right that our bishops should play a part in ordaining them. Both of these deacons have been supported in their studies by the Latin Mass Society,” he said.
In his article, Fr de Malleray reflected on the recent history of the church where the two men are to be ordained. He said: “The beautiful church of St Mary’s was to be shut down due to shortage of priests. The congregation were not familiar with the Extraordinary Form Mass. But if our priests could keep their church alive, they were ready to give it a try, generously. We have been here 10 months. Most parishioners stayed on, and new faces appeared. With more than 300 visitors per week and three full-time clergy between 29 and 45 years of age, St Mary’s Shrine seems to have a future. Thank God and Our Lady.”
The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter currently has 160 seminarians in Europe and America. The order is made up of 421 priests and future priests in 120 dioceses around the world
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THOUGHT FOR TODAY:



TODAY'S POEM:


OUTLOOK ON LIFE:

As you go through life my brother,
Whatever be your goal;
Keep your eye upon the doughnut,
And not upon the hole!

TODAY'S PIC:

102 comments:

  1. A wise Dominican once told this writer, that once the vice of sodomy has contaminated a seminary, Church authorities have only two options - close the place down and send everyone home or do nothing and simply wait for the moral rot to spread until the foundation collapses on its own. Why is this particular vice so deadly to the religious life?

    According to St. Peter Damian, the vice of sodomy "surpasses the enormity of all others," because:

    "Without fail, it brings death to the body and destruction to the soul. It pollutes the flesh, extinguishes the light of the mind, expels the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human heart, and gives entrance to the devil, the stimulator of lust. It leads to error, totally removes truth from the deluded mind ... It opens up hell and closes the gates of paradise ... It is this vice that violates temperance, slays modesty, strangles chastity, and slaughters virginity ... It defiles all things, sullies all things, pollutes all things ...

    "This vice excludes a man from the assembled choir of the Church ... it separates the soul from God to associate it with demons. This utterly diseased queen of Sodom renders him who obeys the laws of her tyranny infamous to men and odious to GodÖ She strips her knights of the armor of virtue, exposing them to be pierced by the spears of every vice ... She humiliates her slave in the church and condemns him in court; she defiles him in secret and dishonors him in public; she gnaws at his conscience like a worm and consumes his flesh like fire. ... this unfortunate man (he) is deprived of all moral sense, his memory fails, and the mind's vision is darkened. Unmindful of God, he also forgets his own identity. This disease erodes the foundation of faith, saps the vitality of hope, dissolves the bond of love. It makes way with justice, demolishes fortitude, removes temperance, and blunts the edge of prudence. (emphasis added)

    "Shall I say more?" [43]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Many gay men do not practice "sodomy".

      Many straight couples do !

      Delete
    2. How did Peter Damian know all this? For such an apparently well-informed, homophobic rant, Damian provides no sources. Perhaps the source for these obsessive musings was the self-loathing mind of a closeted, and severely repressed, gay man: Peter Damian himself, in other words .

      Just a thought.

      Delete
    3. By the way Anonymous at 11:32, your entire post has been plagiarized from Randy Engel's article published in the June 2002 issue of Catholic Family News.


      Next time try composing your own comment ... unless, of course, you are Randy Engel .

      Delete
  2. If they think they can get away with it, there are a number of cautionary tales - of bishops and cardinals - who also thought they wouldn't be caught...... But they did get caught.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Most of them have slept their way to the top.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A priest friend of mine who spent a long time in Rome once told me: "The quickest way to promotion in Rome is to do your religious superiors sexual favours".

      Delete
  4. In the past many people - straight and gay - have asked me: "Is it a sin to sleep with someone"?

    I answer: "No. Sin is more likely to happen if you do not sleep and stay awake" :-)

    ReplyDelete
  5. I am a parish priest in a northern diocese and I know of several priests who are in a relationship with other priests. They are all recently ordained and were educated both in Maynooth and in The Irish College in Rome.

    My problem is that as a straight man I am expected not to be in a relationship with a woman but these men have the luxury of being in a relationship with each other. Surely what is good for the gander should be good for the goose? Second Class Straight PP.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are there no nuns near you?

      Delete
    2. There are but the youngest is 70+ PP

      Delete
    3. I fell in love with a woman as a transitional deacon and was forced out. I was cast into the wilderness and treated like a total outcast.

      Delete
    4. No. It was when I was in a diocese placement .

      Delete
  6. As a current gay seminarian in Maynooth I find today's blog very moving. I hope I can be a good priest and also have LOVE in my life.

    ReplyDelete
  7. This is absolutely hilarious - the National Seminary is now a rendezvous point for gay men looking for love! The future is "Pink" for the Irish Church! LOL :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is that not a bit cynical?

      Delete
    2. I don't think my comment is cynical anon 12:50 based on the pictures I have seen and the video of a C4 reporter receiving a chat request on Grindr from a seminarian when in Maynooth.

      I am gay myself and find it hilarious that in this day and age actively gay guys are running into a seminary to hide away from their gayness only to end up on Grindr and in relationships with other gays! LOL! :) And then they have the audacity to speak out against gay marriage and say that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered when all the while they are at it like rabbits!! LOL

      Their mummmys and daddys must be very scary people that they can't open up to about their sexuality!!

      Delete
    3. @14:47 and what pictures would these be?

      Delete
    4. Ah c'mon 19:23, as a gay guy I know all about the sailor boy getup of the Dublin deacon! LOL!!:) He is very sexy! And your man King Puck (aka Sean Jones) down in Kerry! The hairline, body and comments gave the game away! LOL ;) Kisses to all you sexy gay guys in Gaynooth XXxX

      I may head in there to "test" out my vocation...LOL!

      Delete
    5. Yeah, Sailor Boy Michael Byrne is very sexy.......he oozes sex appeal. I also think King Puck is very sexy too - in a very different way from Deacon Michael - but still sexy all the same. They'll both always be very busy boys!!!!

      Delete
    6. The funny thing is no seminarians were in resident when the reporter was there and if there was there the college would know exactly who it is. process of elimination. also, anyone make have a blank profile and say they are anyone. sometimes I like to pretend i'm toto from the wizard of Oz.

      Delete
    7. Yeah, yeah, yeah... It was probably you anon 00:31! Ha, ha!

      Delete
    8. Anon 00:31 if you are - as can be quite easily inferred from your comment - a current "Gaynooth" denizen, you must think that we are absolutely bereft of a scintilla of intelligence and observatory capabilities! I don't know how you or you like in Maynooth can sleep at night with the lies that you regurgitate with such facility and frequency.

      Please for the love of God - leave the Seminary and join the real world; be a real person, and not just some banal simulacrum of a human being.

      Delete
    9. Anon 00:31 do you also like to pretend that you are a faithful seminarian or indeed priest? I bet you do! Moron - don't take us for fools.

      Delete
  8. Dear Bishop Buckley,
    Do you know the identity of the young priest author of 'Young Priest Writes'? While you allow anonymous comments, you usually give the name of writers of 'leader essays'. I ask simply because it has been a long time since I read anything that rings of the falsity and baseness of 'Young Priest Writes'.
    Donegal Square

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He emails me fairly regularly and intends to come and meet me soon. But as of yet I do not know his full name. Other pieces he has sent me have turned out to be very accurate.

      Delete
    2. As a senior priest of Down and Connor I have personally known of these priest to priest relationships in this diocese and in the Archdiocese of Dublin.

      Delete
    3. And such relationships have happened regularly over my lifetime as a priest of a large English diocese. I have known at least one bishop was so involved when he was a priest.

      Delete
    4. When I was a young curate in the Archdiocese of Cardiff in the middle 1970's two parish priests tried to seduce me in their presbyteries when I called on them on church business. At the time I was very innocent and very shocked and afterwards gave them a wide berth. They were very lonely and frustrated men - one in his 70's and one in his 50's.

      Delete
  9. I wonder if Fr Rory Coyle ever had a priest lover? I heard he had? Armagh Archie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He's a sex addict, apparently. He had many "lovers". Dear God, the Church is in one hell of a mess.

      Delete
  10. Most of the people I know in the parish have nothing against same sex marriage, nothing against gay priests and nothing against married priests.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Lol. .......just when Rory ( and the Armagh senior clergy) thought the whole thing had died down up pops Armagh Archie .........lol

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rory is the only gay priest in the Archdiocese of Armagh. The rest of us are heterosexual like our Archbishop. PP Armagh.

      Delete
    2. Anon PP Armagh @ 14.25:

      I assume you are joking with your comment. If not, Your are TOTALLY BLIND. I could name a few just by looking at them.

      Kind Regards

      Delete
  12. 14:25 Doth protest too much....methinks. perhaps Archie has a point?

    Anon Ard Macha

    ReplyDelete
  13. Friendly bloggers ahoy!

    Seriously, is sexual immorality a sin or?

    Irrespective or sexual orientation, we are called to true love, which is love of God, neighbour and self. That dosent mean sexual gratification at whim or a laize faire faith that accepts sin.

    Why can't priests just love God and stop f..king about with the Eucharist?

    A straight priest who tried to walk with Him.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ok. Point of view. Are you saying that sexually active priests shoupd not celebrate the Eucharist under any circumstance?

      Delete
    2. There is nothing preventing sexually active priests from celebrating the Eucharist. However, should a sexually active priest in the Roman Rite celebrate the Eucharist? Thats what they (me at one stage) signed up for.

      By the way, i have no time for the latin boys running around like fairies and similarly i have no time for the lads who run around with theology that is fair weather at best.

      Delete
    3. A sexually active priest celebrstes the Eucharist unworthily and sinfully.

      Delete
    4. An awful lot of Masses are celebrated unworthily and sinfully then?

      Delete
  14. To 13.15 Donegall Square ( please note the 2 "l"s in Donegall if you are really from or work there!!!)
    My brother, a priest in a Northern Diocese and now deceased, had a relationship with another priest for over 40 years. They met in Maynooth. So I have no difficulty believing the contributor claiming to have found love in the seminary.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I understand the feelings of that young priest in the opening letter "Maynooth - I found love". I am happy for him that he has found love but in my opinion they both should express that love outside the RC Church while still honouring his belief that "God was calling us both to serve him".

    I too was attracted to the priesthood as the best way that I could live my life. My family and the priests of my childhood parish were my role models who helped me to be the character that I am and I am most appreciative of their sacrifices to help me to be the best that I could.

    I spoke to my parents about joining a seminary and they said that they I should wait a year to test if I had a vocation. I did not join a seminary but Jesus is my role model and I try to live my life in a positive Christian way. I am gay and have been in a number of long term and sexual relationships.

    What troubles me most is that there are good and loving gay priests of character, Christ like men, remaining in the Church that upholds a teaching that which tells other gay people such as myself that I am dis-ordered and with a strong tendency towards evil.

    To me this is akin to a Jew joining the SS and wearing a Nazi uniform and inflicting cruelty on their own people. I pray a lot and my prayer for these two good priests, made in the image and likeness of God, is that they have the strength to serve God outside of a Church that oppresses people like me and continues to influence people such as my parents and my grandparents (not deceased)to think negatively of me.

    I genuinely wish all gay priests well, it could have been me, and I have the utmost respect for the calling that brought them into the priesthood to serve God and their neighbours in such an unselfish way

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment at 16:00 is typical of a pathos-addicted, homosexual drama-junkie, who loves to wallow in a nice warm bath of self-pity. It was homosexuals like this blogger who "inspired" the Daffyd Thomas (I'm the only gay in the village) Little Britain character.

      The Catholic Church is not sending homosexuals to the gas chambers. It is not "oppressing" "people like (poor old) you". Obviously you have left the Church, so, unlike the Nazi death camps and torture chambers, no one could force you to stay against your will.

      The Catholic Church teaches that ALL OF HUMAN NATURE - including the "gays" and the "straights" - is disordered - has a strong tendency towards evil and is, therefore, in need of ongoing redemption and grace, through Christ, to be healed and saved.

      There is no reason for the priests who are friends/"lovers" to leave the Church as you advise on account of your own prejudices. Why should they?

      The problem in Gaynooth is being caused by homosexuals THEMSELVES - who THEMSELVES - are oppressing other students in the "gulag" and who are being feted, petted and protected, by other, powerful, "higher up" homosexuals.

      Delete
    2. And what about the co-operation given to the Nazis by those in The Vatican and among the German Catholic Hierarchy?

      And what the millions of Catholic gay people who were introduced to self hate by centuries of Catholic theology?

      Delete
    3. Pat, anon 18:13 is telling the truth by saying that a vicious gang of lying homosexual Maynooth seminarians is being aided and abetted by another gang of lying homosexuals higher up the food chain.

      You are an openly gay man who makes no bones about your sexuality. I don't agree with all your theological views on this blog, but do admire your honesty and transparency.

      The homosexual clique in Maynooth is destroying anyone who stands in the way of its lies and hypocrisy - and this is wrong!

      There have always and will always be dodgy, cowardly bishops. Wasn't Judas (one of the first bishops) picked by Christ? Wasn't St John Fisher the only English bishop with the balls to stand up to Henry VIII? The fact is that good and brave bishops are quite rare. So is it any wonder that many German bishops sided with Hitler? I once heard it said that Christ chose Judas in order to prepare us for the ensuing disasters in the Episcopacy. Sure look at the current walking disasters in purple we are lumbered with in Ireland!

      Delete
    4. And what about the priests and religious persecuted and murdered by the Nazis? Imprisoned in the preister blok at Dachau? What about the many Jews who were saved by the Church?

      Catholic theology, properly taught and understood, does not inculcate self hate in anyone.

      Delete
    5. 'Catholic Theology ... does not inculcate self-hate ...'? Really?


      The CCC teaches not one positive word about homosexuality ( and, therefore, about homosexual relationships ); not one. The clear subliminal message is that this orientation is morally and irredeemably bad.


      This kind of false theology can engender nothing but self-hatred in homosexuals.

      Delete
    6. 18:13, the Catholic Church does not teach that heterosexual inclinclination is 'objectively disordered', but it does so of homosexuality. It is this kind of partial teaching which rankles the commentor at 16:00. And justifiably so.

      Delete
    7. 18:49, '...lying homosexual Maynooth seminarians...? If these people were straight, would you single out their sexuality for such vicious and judgemental comment?

      Delete
    8. Magna Carta - the Catholic Church does not subscribe - and never will - to the false ideology of homosexualism and the dictatorship imposed by what has been termed "gay", in the modern era.

      The Church looks at every human being, including those who are attracted to their own sex, as children of God, worthy of dignity and called to Eternal Life.

      The Church will never pander to the idolatrous and dictatorial falsehoods of the "gay" police who nowadays patrol every avenue of human life and thought.

      Homosexual genital acts are intrinsically disordered and sinful. EQUALLY SO, are heterosexual acts of fornication and adultery.

      There can be no compromise with what St Paul calls "the spirit of the age".

      Every Catholic is called to holiness of life and heroic virtue. God's grace is freely available to everyone without exception. And when people sin through human weakness, His loving Mercy is unconditionally present to lift us up out of the mire.

      From reading your regular posts, you come across as a man carrying a lot of anger and hurt. You should seek help with those issues.

      As Catholics, we are not going to bow down at the idolatrous altar erected by so-called "gay" ideologues. It is to be opposed because it is false and a deception.

      The self-hatred and loathing is inherent in the "gay" ideology itself. Christian doctrine did not cause it. God's Grace can free people to truly love themselves and see their true identity as children of God, destined for Heaven. Sexual attraction is part of the fleeting nature of this life. In the light of Eternity, it fades fleetingly, in the blink of an eye.

      Delete
    9. 02:57, there is no such thing as the ideology of 'homosexualism', just as there is no such thing as that word. Nor is there a gay 'dictatorship' These are figments of imaginations that cope with challenges to the status quo by retreating into the twilight world of conspiracy theory. (And you believe that I have 'issues,?)

      But there is, worldwide, a large community of LGBT people who have been taught to loathe themselves by teaching from Scripture that is filtered through the churches, including the Catholic Church. And this teaching has provided the moral framework for those who would do violence to such people.

      I have never said that homosexual sex is morally right; in fact I believe such acts to be morally wrong . However, there is more, much more, to good homosexual relationships, just as there is to their heterosexual counterparts; sexual acts do not define either.

      None of this is recognised in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a deep injustice and a travesty of the truth. If you and your fellow conspiracy theorists were in pursuit of truth, you would contest rather than defend such deviant teaching

      Delete
    10. Then obviously, in spite of yourself, you agree with the Church.

      Homosexuality is not a sin. Homosexual acts are sinful. We agree on that.

      And yes indeed there is much more to good homosexual relationships than genital activity. There is above all the fact that homosexuals are children of God.

      We refuse to define human beings according to the "gay" ideology. A man, a woman, who have same-sex attraction, is essentially, like everyone else, a son and daughter of God, infinitely loved, upon whom the Lord looks with infinite mercy and compassion.

      "For He knows that of which we are made. He remembers that we are dust" Ps 103:14.

      Delete
    11. Magna Carta, what the Church teaches in the Catechism about the dignity and worth of the human person, she teaches about ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

      Homosexual persons are included, it goes without saying, in that teaching. The problem arises with homosexual acts which you also believe to be immoral.

      The Church asks homosexual children of God to do their best to be chaste - what she asks of all God's children.

      And when we fail through human weakness, Christ gives us His grace and forgiveness, always available, in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

      It has to be said that there exists today, among persons of both hetero and homo sexual orientations, a culture of promiscuity and degradation of the human being, into an object of lustful desire.

      This mentality and way of behaving is always incompatible with the Faith and its presence among priests and/or seminarians is a grave and devastating scandal.

      Delete
    12. I should have thought it obvious, from my previous post, that I do not agree with the Church, at least not in full.

      It is implicit from the Catechism entry on homosexuality that the Church defines homosexual relationships in exclusively sexual terms, as 'homosexual (sexual)acts'. As I said in my previous post, this is 'a deep injustice and a travesty of the truth '. So no, I scarcely agree with the Church in this fundamental respect.

      You yourself have fallen into the same ontological trap as the Church, since you use the euphemism 'homosexual acts' to refer only to sexual acts. In a same-sex relationship, is it not also a homosexual act for each partner to be faithful to the other? Is it not also a homosexual act for each partner to care for the other when one is ill? I could add to this, but hopefully by now you've taken my point.

      No one is defining gay people by their sexual orientation. But it is a part of them nonetheless. Unfortunately for many, it is a part they have felt shamed into rejecting (or worse, even denying) by the kind of teaching in the Catechism, which as I said earlier
      hasn't 'one positive word about homosexuality'. And how does this square with your claim in a previous post that 'the Church looks at every human being, including those who are attracted to their own sex, as children of God,worthy of dignity and called to Eternal Life '? It is not treating people with dignity when misrepresenting as
      sexual, lustful and 'disordered' the love they show one another.

      Delete
    13. I think you just like to be quarrelsome, Magna Carta and that it is a waste of time engaging with you. But here goes for the last time:

      You agree with the Church that homosexual genital acts are immoral. Ok. Agreed.

      You then invent a dispute over homosexual persons who live together in a chaste and loving relationship - something the Catholic Church would encourage - with which there would be no moral problem whatsoever.

      At issue here, in this controversy, is the existence of exploitative and promiscuous same-sex genital activities among some priests, some seminarians and even, possibly, some bishops.

      That appalling vista is a HUGE SCANDAL AND PROBLEM for the Church.

      Delete
    14. We have been engaged in debate, not in a quarrel. So I really don't understand your complaint. If you don't enjoy debate, then for heaven's sake don't debate. But if you decide to debate, then don't be so churlish as to accuse your opponent of being 'quarrelsome'.

      Like you, I'm going to give this discussion one last attempt. If (as you said) the Catholic Church would encourage 'chaste and loving' homosexual relationships, then why the hell doesn't it state this in the Catechism?! Instead, it presents these relationships in a totally negative way, as 'homosexual acts'. Is any of this getting through to you? Christ, some of you people are so obtuse!

      Delete
    15. You are quite something else, MC, someone as irascible and high-horse arrogant as you, accusing others of being "churlish" and "obtuse"! Ha!

      The Church, in referring to homosexual acts, is specifically referring to sexual activity between persons of the same sex.

      Chaste and loving relationships between anyone - homosexual or heterosexual - are NORMAL. There is no need for the CCC to specify the plain, bleeding obvious, or to differentiate.

      A homosexual person, if he/she lives in a chaste and committed relationship, commits NO SIN! They are living a regular Christian life. The kind of life every Christian is expected to lead. What part of that do you not understand?

      Adieu.

      Delete
    16. Modesty and civility preclude my telling you where to go.

      Delete
    17. You are a mulish boor who wouldn't know modesty and civility if they both bit you on each of your arse cheeks. Right back atcha! LOL

      Delete
  16. Pats blog being discussed at the counter in Pugin Hall today with a group of lads

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    Replies
    1. Interesting. A US priest rang me the other night to tell me he had dinner with a US Catholic bishop and the bishop raised my blog.

      Delete
    2. Favourably or unfavourably?

      Delete
    3. As one of those in the discussion - it was being discussed with interest and anxiety.

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  17. "Discretion is the better part of valour" (Shakespeare, Henry IV).

    The problem is that "discretion" is greatly lacking in most of these very immature young men presenting themselves at the gates of Gaynooth, making themselves very cosy there and getting themselves ordained.

    Also rare is the type of loving and committed friendship described by the young priest between him and his friend in the article - 'I found love'.

    Most of these Grindr using lads are 'indiscreet' to put it mildly and they are walking disasters waiting to erupt on the pages of the tabloids and broadsheets.

    This is a ghastly scandal. Maynooth has become Gaynooth. The formation team, seminary council and trustees are themselves INTEGRAL to the scandal!

    That the bishops are doing a whole great big bunch of NOTHING is an ongoing source of bewilderment and further scandal.

    We are beginning to wonder which Irish bishops are themselves practicing homosexuals and have they been having gay sex with seminarians in Gaynooth? With staff members there? With gay priests and lay men in their own dioceses?

    Have some Irish bishops been seeking out rentboys and male prostitutes? Are some of them Grindr users too? Is there blackmail going on? Does that explain the lack of DECISIVE intervention in a scandal that has reduced the former National Seminary to a risible disgrace and an obscene caricature of priestly formation?

    We are waiting for the inevitable explosion of scandal - as happened in the dioceses of Santa Rosa CA, Palm Springs FL, Minneapolis MN and Springfield MA - to name just a few dioceses in the USA - where active gay bishops reigned until they were toppled.

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  18. I rather think gay culture has become the institutionalised norm at Maynooth and straight men may form some sort of a sub-culture there from time to time depending on numbers. It is a gay seminary for gay men... and probably always has been.

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    1. I agree with you fully that homosexuality has become the norm at Maynooth and all modern day seminaries.

      But I think 50 years ago Maynooth was a seminary full of 500 men who were mainly celibate - the majority with a straight orientation and a minority with a gay orientation.

      That all changed from the 1970s onwards.

      The CATHOLIC PRIESTHOOD is now a GAY PROFESSION with a few exceptions.

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    2. Your on the money Anon 17:34. Heterosexuality is now the subculture in Gaynooth. It's gay all the way baby!!:) LOL!!

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    3. I agree 100% with your statement Pat that the priestly demographic has swung to be preponderantly homosexual. It is well on the way to becoming a gay profession. I know this for a fact as ALL my priest friends are gay - and many are in gay sexual relationships.

      I am not one bit surprised at the recent Maynooth revelations. It was bound to spill out to the media sooner or later.

      Celibacy and heterosexuality are now very rare things in the priesthood.

      Dublin PP.

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    4. Thank you for your honesty and for rescuing me from those who accuse me of lying about this issue :-)

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    5. Maynooth is a microcosm of the Irish Presbyterate. The now majority gay clergy is a nuclear bomb that has been waiting to detonate for a while now.

      Maynooth is only the tip of the iceberg. You ain't seen nothing yet.

      Cork Priest.

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  19. No more Sunday envelope from me.

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    Replies
    1. Good. You should have done that years ago.

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    2. I'm not bothered about a priests orientation
      But it seems some or most are using the priesthood as an easy cash paying lifestyle....get a job and pay your tax like the rest of us

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    3. Do you not think that a good hardworking priest serving his community in various ways is worthy of financial support.

      I agree with you about the clerical parasites - of which there are many.

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    4. PS: When I was in Divis Flats - 1978 - 1983 I did a 16 hour day for my keep and £70 a month cash.

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  20. Those were the days
    Much has changed in the 21st century

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  21. Why do the Irish prolateriat hold priests in such high esteem? This blog needs to educate the general public. About 3 years ago I witnessed a corpus christi procession in Armagh and it was like a gay pride parade...fer fucks sake wake up!

    Mr Angry Armagh

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    Replies
    1. Mr Armagh there's a lot in what you say. The Church serves Jesus not feckin Adonas

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  22. I admire Fr "Normal" for his submission and remember myself on a somewhat similar path in hetro land years ago. It's back to the old principle that sensus fidei has decreed celibacy is primarily against human nature and obsolete. How many times must it be said

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  23. I have just read the Derry changes and it does indeed say that Fr Collins will be out for 1 year and will be given a new appointment in 2017 but if what the Longtower parishoner has told you Pat is true then it seems that after only three years Fr. Collins is destined to become another one of the 'Disappeared'/MIA in Derry.
    At this rate there will be none left

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  24. From Longtower Parish bulletin
    DIOCESAN CHANGES

    Most Rev Donal McKeown, has appointed Fr Aidan Mullan as Administrator to St Columba’s Church, Long Tower.

    Fr Eamon Graham has been appointed as Parish Priest of Lavey and Greenlough. Fr Brendan Collins will take a 12 month period of sabbatical leave from ministry before his next appointment in 2017.

    We thank Fr Eamon for his careful and considered guidance and leadership over the past year as Administrator. We wish him every blessing in his future ministry.

    Fr Brendan began his ministry here in September 2013 the parish greatly appreciated all his hard work, dedication and commitment. We wish him well during the coming next year.

    We take this opportunity to sincerely thank them for all their work. Parishioners have been touched by their presence in their lives and have welcomed their prayers and support during times of difficulty and when they were in most need. We wish them every blessing and fulfilment in their lives and assure them of our continued prayers.

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    Replies
    1. But why a sabbatical after 3 years?

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    2. Without denying that 'sabbatical' is one of the church-speak phrases to cover all sorts of things, and without denying that it would be very unusual to have a sabbatical after only three years...
      Surely if a priest is on the way out of the priesthood it is only right that he be given time out and for his own privacy to be respected?

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  25. Do those who wrote this back-slappin' shite REALLY speak for ALL parisioners? Aye, right.

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  26. I can concur with Jane from North West England. It is the same in my parish in North East England.

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  27. "We both regretted having to 'lie' during our ordination ceremonies.." They didn't 'lie' they lied without any inverted commas. We are talking about the most solemn oaths here. Their ordinations were founded on lies and are therefore surely in question, if a married person goes through a marriage ceremony without any intention of fidelity, then the marriage is null and void.
    EL

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    1. Absolutely! They are hypocrites and deserve to be exposed, just as much as the other Maynooth guys! Let's expose them and TAKE THEM DOWN!

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    2. And your point is?

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    3. EL Celibacy is not essential to Priesthood. There are married RC priests. Fidelity is essential to marriage and partnerships. It mocks God and church to have an unrealistic promise in the ordination ceremony

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    4. I know that but don't really see its relevance to my point. Yes Eastern Rite priests can be married before ordination to the diaconate but not afterwards as in the Orthodox Church (in both many actively choose the celibate life when they have a choice). The Latin rite priest cannot marry. If a solemn vow is unrealistic for an individual, then it should be obvious to anyone that, if made, it is made without good faith and mocks the Sacrament of ordination. I believe that the ordination of a man who has no intention to try to live a sexually continent life (as above) are clearly invalid and that those involved are now merely pretending to be priests.
      EL

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  28. Can we get something straight here (no pun intended). Celibacy is the single state, continence is not having sex. For any Catholic celibacy requires continence and has always done so. Difficult but there we are - the narrow gate.

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  29. Pat Buckley. You're totally mad. You really are.
    A priest who admits to lying when he took the vows of celibacy. And you seem to condone it. But you're attacking Michael Byrne because he may or may not be celibate.

    Priests should not be hypocrites. Celibacy is for ALL priests. If you can't be celibate, you are not fit for the priesthood. End of. That's it. No more.

    To do anything else (including getting consecrated as an independent bishop) is a betrayal of ones vows/promises and is wrong, wrong, wrong.
    I assume you won't publish this though, because we're not allowed to attack you... ever.

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    1. Pat is a valid Bishop. What does that say. Who owns the Jesus franchise?

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    2. I think that the Church he founded 'owns the franchise' - you know the one that the gates of hell would not prevail against. There are 33,000 churches who are different enough in beliefs to separate themselves from each other. Just choose the one that agrees with you but leave the True Church alone.

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  30. Why if you are not celibate are you not fit for the priesthood? The celibacy vow is a nonsense. A man made rule to control and nothing more. It has nothing to do with having a vocation. Are married priests somehow worth less? Not in God's eyes I'm sure. There are priests who are unsuited to the priesthood because they have NO VOCATION regardless of their sexual orientation or level of promiscuity. There are priests who are unsuited to the priesthood because they have NO VOCATION and are celibate. And there are priests who are totally suited to the priesthood because they have a STRONG VOCATION who may or may not be celibate and may or may not be gay. Being fit for the priesthood has nothing to do with celibacy. Jesus was probably married anyway. As with anything the Church will have edited the Bible over the centuries to cut out anything that doesn't suit its purpose. Celibacy is as outdated as saying the Pope is infallible. Man made rules all the way and look what a mess it is has made. We were given 10 commandments and I've lost count of how many man has added for his own purposes.

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    1. What absolute drivel from Anon at 22:12.

      "Jesus was probably married anyway". Really? I think the New Testament would have mentioned it somewhere.

      But then for Joker at 22:12, 2000 years of Tradition count for nothing in his/her adolescent mind-set. The Church "edited" the Bible! What age are you? 12?

      Yes we were given 10 commandments - and one of them is Thou shalt not commit adultery - which forbids all forms of sexual immorality and promiscuity. But that's right, in the rules you have written for yourself, promiscuous priests can have a true vocation! Good grief!!! Where do we get them??

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