Monday, 10 October 2016

ISSUES ARISING

ISSUES ARISING

I have found a number of issues that arose on the Blog in the last few days very interesting and I was wondering if we could further develop them.

The ones I am talking about are:

1. The issues of Cardinal Sean Baptist "The Wounded Healer" BRADY.

2. The issue of Dr Phelim DONNELLY.

3. The issue of ex IRA man - ex Maynooth seminarian SHANE PAUL O'DOHERTY.


1. BRADY:

BRADY
We know that SEAN BRADY is pathetic and useless - like tits on a bull.

We know he melts in front of TV cameras.

We know that he interviewed young boys behind locked doors about their abuse by FATHER BRENDAN SMYTH - locking their parents outside - and binding them to secrecy.

But I think there is far more to the BRADY SAGA. I believe there is a deeper and more serious skeleton in the Brady Closet.

I am left wondering what that skeleton might be ???

Could boring Sean have had a sex life of some kind?

Do we need to know more about his work as a canon lawyer in Kilmore (Cavan ) diocese ? What was that comment on the Blog the other day about Kilmore having to pay out 300,000 for some "mistake".

Do we need to know more about his time in The Irish College in Rome and his connections with the college holiday villa?

Do we need to know more about his UNRELENTING SUPPORT for some of the staff in Maynooth?

Does somebody in Maynooth have him by "the short and curlies"?

I smell a dead crow in the chimney stack.

I smell a dead rat under the floor boards.

I smell a dead mackerel behind the radiator.

I have a very keen sense of smell. I am rarely wrong.

MAYNOOTH is a big problem. But Maynooth is a serious symptom of an even bigger problem. 

And the name Sean O'Bradaigh is in there somewhere.

Can anyone help us ?

Your reward will be great in Heaven :-)

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2. DR PHELIM DONNELLY:


When I asked a seminarian who was in Maynooth with Dr Phelim why he was dismissed from Maynooth he replied:


"Phelim said just that he was told he was too religious". 

Imagine a clever man with a decent spirituality was expelled for being TOO RELIGIOUS?

He was protesting then about the same thing we are - the Maynooth gay bullies.

Anyone know more about Phelim?

Anyone got a pic of him?


3. SHANE PAUL O'DOHERTY:




2004:
"Convicted IRA bombmaker Shane Paul O'Doherty began his formation for the Catholic priesthood at a Dublin seminary two weeks ago, reported the Belfast Telegraph.
O'Doherty had received 30 life sentences in the 1970s for his part as the chief bombmaker in Derry for an IRA letter-bombing campaign in Northern Ireland and Great Britain. He had once targeted Bishop Gerard Tickle with a letter-bomb hidden inside a Bible. However, that bomb failed to explode.
He turned his back on terrorism after being released in 1989, and he is now studying theology at St Patrick's College in Maynooth. If all goes well, he could be ordained within six years.
Fr. Enda Cunningham, a spokesman for St Patrick's, said they were aware of O'Doherty's terrorist background, but all of the proper procedures had been followed. According to Canon Law, murderers and those who attempt murder against the life of a priest or a bishop are not eligible candidates for the priesthood, unless proper dispensations are issued.
"The college's policy is to receive any student who has been recommended by his bishop," he told the Belfast Telegraph. "This has taken place in Shane's case and he arrived here two weeks ago with 20 other students to begin their training."

PAT SAYS:

I met Shane O'Doherty when he was the editor of homeless magazine THE BIG ISSUE.




He asked me to write a column for the magazine and I agreed.

But my columns were critical of the Catholic Church and the Church Hierarchy put pressure on THE BIG ISSUES and they got rid of me :-)

The most offending column was called:

THE CARDINAL WHO COULD NOT CRY
(In honour of C B Daly)

"ONCE UPON A TIME there was a cardinal who couldn’t cry. Everyone called him Cardinal Dry Eyes. Cardinal Dry Eyes ruled over a vast kingdom of four million souls. His subjects affectionately called him “Eminence” and when they approached him they genuflected and kissed his hand.
The cardinal had everything a man could want. He had a big car, a chauffeur, a golden ring, a golden shepherd’s crook and many telephones and fax machines. He was invited to all the best parties and most months he travelled abroad as a VIP. Everyone gave him great respect and he had immense power.
But the cardinal was very sad. He couldn’t cry!  He knew that a good cardinal should be able to cry. So he called together all the members of his court and promised great rewards to the man who could make him cry.
The Archdeacon approached the throne and in an attempt to bring tears to the prelate’s eyes told him of all the married couples in his kingdom who could not cope with large families and who had resorted to the crime of contraception. As a result they had been designated “mortal sinners”, were banned from receiving Holy Communion and would go to Hell when they died. “Many of these poor people”, said the Venerable Archdeacon, “are living lives scarred by guilt and rejection”. Cardinal Dry Eyes thought about these people for a short while. But still he couldn’t cry.
The Dean approached the throne. He told the cardinal of the 100,000 subjects in his kingdom who marriages had broken down and were living in unblessed “second unions”. “They live, Your Eminence, as religious lepers and are in great pain and misery”. Again the cardinal thought briefly. But again he could not cry.
The Chancellor stood up. He described the plight of the homosexual community in the kingdom who are also made to feel unwanted and who must cope with marginalisation from the church as well as with all the other difficulties of being “different”. “Many of them have been forced to emigrate Your Eminence and others have taken their own lives”. The cardinal dwelt on these people. But no tears would come.
The Vicar General approached and bowed low. “What Your Eminence of the hundreds of priests in your kingdom who find their celibacy vows unbearable, and as a result become involved in secret affairs with women and with men or who turn to alcohol or the abuse of power in order to cope. And what of all the deserted partners of priests and what of all the secret priest’s children”? The cardinal thought and thought. But still he could not weep.
There were many other attempts by the Auxiliary Bishops, the Monsignors, the Canons, the Vicars Forane, the Consultors, the Episcopal Vicars, the Judicial Vicars, the Pastors Emeritus, the Parish Priests, the Administrators, the curates, the Media Relations Officers, the Diocesan Archivists, the Diocesan Historians and the Religious Superiors to make the cardinal weep. But all to no avail. Even an attempt by the Canon Lawyers to inject artificial tears into the cardinal’s eyes came to nothing. There was despair throughout the whole kingdom. Everyone, except the cardinal, sat and wept until a river of tears flowed up the hill and in under the palace door.
And then something wonderful happened. A court messenger arrived with a copy of THE IRISH TIMES. Even though he regarded it as a Protestant type of newspaper the cardinal browsed through its pages. His eminent eyes fell upon a column  by a certain Nuala O’Faolain. The heading was “No Excuse For Church In Scandal Of Priest Child Abuse”.
There the cardinal read of how he had failed to act after the came to know of clerical child abuse. His Eminence read on with ever opening eyes and saw himself being accused of doing little to stop offending priests apart from moving them from parish to parish where they abused again. He felt a lump in his throat as he saw himself being accused of being more interested in covering up for the Church than in the welfare and protection of little innocent children.    And his whole body visibly shook as he read Ms. O Faolain suggest that the Catholic Church in Ireland might not always be of God and that some senior clerics in it might be the present day Pharisees!
The cardinal felt a huge surge of anger and resentment. His lavender coloured lips trembled. Great beads of sweat appeared on his clerical collar. His breathing became laboured. He put is snow white head into his marble hands and as the court looked on am amazing scene unfolded. The courtiers saw huge, translucent tears stream out through the cardinal’s white fingers and fall upon the highly polished marble floor. His Eminence wept for hours and hours. At last he could cry.
Ms. O’Faolain’s name was immediately inserted into the Solemn Liturgy Of Personae Non Grata
Cardinal Dry Eyes changed his name by a no-deed poll to Cardinal Crocodile. The kingdom returned to “normal” and they all lived happily ever after".


Shane rang me to tell me the good news that I had been shafted :-)

He later went into Maynooth to study for the priest.

Anyone know why he left ?

A seminarian who was with him in Maynooth told me last night:

"Shane said he was simple told he was not being sent back for third year. Apparently it was his first meeting with AB Martin, lasted less than a minute". 


The Dean of Formation who got rid of Dr Phelim and Shane O'Doherty was FATHER DONAL O'NEILL who left Kerry Diocese for a woman last year.

Of him the seminarian said:


"Donal had a reputation for no-win questions in formation meetings. He was key to messing up a lot of people. He also used to tell heterosexuals that they were angry, he would repeat it over and over until individuals were angry with him. He would then tell Dermot Farrell that the seminarian was sexually frustrated and not suited to the lifestyle. Turns out he was the one who was frustrated both in his pants and his vocation".

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MAYNOOTH CORNER

Sponsored by the Maynooth Grindrs Association
Room 69
Ledwith House.
Maynooth.




At last night's meeting of the MGA there was a vote as to which of the recent Oscott seminarians was the sexiest.

The picture below is of the winner:


The winner was awarded a Tricolour / Union Jack speedo called "The Peace Speedo" - from the King Puck collection designed at the Men's Underwear Boutique in Maynooth by the well known couturier Paula Dyer. 




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173 comments:

  1. Part 1

    Let us be clear - the Maynooth issue was not raised to public prominence by you or by any bigoted or homophobic seminarian. The first real publicity and the first sign in recent years that an Irish bishop was beginning to object to "strange goings on" in Maynooth was when Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin announced on August 1st via his friend in The Irish Times, Paddy Agnew, the following: “I wasn’t happy with Maynooth... There seems to an atmosphere of strange goings-on there, it seems like a quarrelsome place with anonymous letters being sent around. I don’t think this is a good place for students,” he said. “However, when I informed the president of Maynooth of my decision, I did add ‘at least for the moment’.”

    The question immediately arises whether it was the behaviour of the students and faculty (active homosexuality and use of Grindr to find sexual partners, quite uninhibited by the Seminary Council who in theory should promote celibacy) which troubled Martin, or whether it was merely the resultant quarrelsomness, anonymous letters and bad atmosphere which annoyed him 'at least for the moment'.

    The essential question, therefore, must be this - does Archbishop Diarmuid Martin object to active homosexual practices in his seminarians, deacons and priests and in Maynooth seminary generally or does he just find an atmosphere of quarrels, anonymous letters and people being too blatant in their behaviour somewhat troubling - 'at least for the moment'.

    During his previous 12 years of moments in governance of the Archdiocese of Dublin he had not expressed any objections to Maynooth, nor had he inquired into the regular dismissals of seminarians from Maynooth even when those dismissals resulted from complaints similar to his own about "strange goings on". So while various seminarians had the foolhardy courage to make internal complaints in Maynooth about the very same "strange goings on" and were subsequently dismissed from their vocations for doing so - Archbishop Martin in whose diocese sits the very same seminary - never thought it worthwhile to seek to meet and question those whistleblowers during 12 years with a view to possibly safeguarding his own seminarians.

    One of your commentators mentioned a family G.P. seminarian who had had the temerity - and stupidity - to formally complain back in 2005 about a homosexual ethos in Maynooth and in relation to a highly placed cleric professor and who subsequently paid the price for this when he was dismissed from Maynooth. A young priest recently outed snorting cocaine in Dromore was in the seminary as a seminarian when the same G.P. was there - according to the kalendarium of the period. He got passed as fit for ordination, while the GP didn't. Did this dismissive behaviour on the part of Maynooth not cause the troubled Archbishop to inquire within? Has he, since August 1st, looked back over the long list of dismissals and even now - better late than never - sought to meet or question any of those who made exactly the same complaint as he made? And perhaps, if he is genuine, make common cause with them - the true victims - in joined-up complaints? Would this not benefit his fellow bishops who have completely rubbished his temporary objection to Maynooth?

    Unfortunately, he has not done so. He was not minded to object during the previous 12 years of governance and seems to have only become sufficiently troubled when a former Dublin seminarian was about to make an actual Garda complaint which might have the prospect - even yet - of subjecting Dublin clerics to subpoenas in any forthcoming court cases. There is also the prospect that the former Dublin seminarian complainant's legal advisers could seek an order for search of any and all Dublin diocesan computer systems for any emails or documents relating to him or to complaints such as his own. In light of these dreadful possibilities, Archbishop Martin' late conversion to being troubled about Maynooth begins to make sense.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Part 2

    Since many of those heterosexual complainants who were dismissed from Maynooth came from other Irish dioceses whose Bishops, as members of the Irish Catholic Bishops' Conference, have some nominal oversight of Maynooth, the computer systems of these bishops and their servants and any documents or emails in these might also be subject to a legal order for search for information relating to the said seminarian or to complaints similar to his. This might finally uncover whether the other Irish bishops were fully aware of "strange goings on" in Maynooth going back many years and did nothing or whether they were unaware of why their heterosexual complainants were being fired from the seminary without any reasons being given. Again, why did they not inquire of their erstwhile vocations about these matters with a view to safeguarding their future seminarians? How have there not been any joined-up bishops' inquiries into such grave matters? Did anyone in Dromore inquire of Stephen about the "strange goings on" in Maynooth during his years there when he knew the G.P. was complaining and was later dismissed? Do trainee priests just turn blind eyes to occasions of unjust dismissal and bullying and hetero-bashing? Do they continue to choose to be silent and complicit after ordination?

    Moving on the the Archdiocese of Dublin, it remains to be determined if Archbishop Martin - who may be assumed in the normal course of events to have received complaints about homosexual activities in his seminarians, deacons or priests or about bullying of persons resulting from these activities - written, typed or face-to-face complaints - has in fact acted on any of these during the past 12 years of his governance. Apart from Maynooth where his troubled conscience has only resulted in a belated and temporary change of locus for his seminarians - out of the frying pan of Maynooth and into the fire of Rome - has he acted decisively in the Archdiocese - 'at least for the moment' - to clean up blatant behaviours which have resulted in complaints being laid before him?

    Unlike the Maynooth scenario where Martin claimed that the anonymity of complaints made it difficult to subject them to 'due process', there have been many complainants in the archdiocese who have assuredly not been anonymous. What then has happened to their written, typed and verbal complaints, for instance - just to take one example as a litmus test of the integrity of Martin's protests of being troubled in his conscience about "strange goings on", say, the Pro-Cathedral's alleged 'strange goings on' going back some 7 years with regard to treatment of volunteers there, treatment of staff and treatment of seminarians inhabiting the place and staying overnight - what has happened there as a touchstone of Martin's integrity and determination to be good and to be seen to be good and dealing with complaints?

    Niente. Nihil. Nada. Nichts. Rien.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Part 3

    The most honest part of Martin's Maynooth statement of August 1st was the part 'at least for the moment'.

    Everything of the clerical golden circle can be soothed and rehabilitated after a period of cooling off. Those sent away can be returned. Those removed from office can be restored. Those put into the shadows can be once more enlightened. Those dragged off Grindr kicking and screaming can be cured.

    But those who complain in writing - even priests - those who break the golden rule of the Archdiocese ["put nothing in writing"] - they are destined to receive no replies, to see no action implemented, to be cast out in perpetuity.

    This puts Martin wholly in line with the other Irish bishops who have done absolutely nothing about scandals affecting their dioceses beyond temporary removal of said offenders 'at least for the moment'. Be not surprised then when these re-appear within the 12 months back in the saddle again, restored fully and perhaps advised to keep their private lives a little more private.

    The only question remains then, Pat, is this a problem? Can we not all live with this? Isn't this realpolitik? Aren't there always bullies and victims? Doesn't even an imperfect church need to soldier on regardless of the complainants, such as yourself and the dumped GP? Aren't you whingers just the crushed eggshells of the need to make ecclesial omelettes? If our seminarians and deacons and priests need the outlet of consensual gay sex and the trappings of incomes, titles, gifts, cars, holliers and youthful relationships ["he's the son I never had"] and so on - shouldn't we pay this price to retain the semblance of a true church? What's the actual problem? If everybody's at it, including you, what's the problem?

    At least for the moment, if Archbishop Martin is to be our moral touchstone, shouldn't we all just imitate him, express some temporary annoyance and then after the storm has died down just ignore it and let everybody get on with it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is probably the best contribution ever made to this blog.

      Thank you, whoever you are, for your searing insights.

      I agree with all you said.

      But a little candle blowing in the wind tells me: "Keep it up Pat. Slowly, very slowly, the bits of the jigsaw puzzle are coming together.

      When will we feel the full wrath of those who don't want this to happen?

      Delete
  4. Long winded or what? It's off putting to read such long and tedious comments.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Totally disagree. This person is an Enlightener.

      Delete
  5. He has certainly highlighted part of the problem at Maynooth. However, the main victims of the Maynooth gulag are orthodox seminarians - whether heterosexual or homosexual in orientation - no one knows and no one cares because for orthodox seminarians their sexuality is not the lens through which they see they world and it is thus fairly irrelevant for the most part. Repeatedly and without fail they get asked to leave. Sometimes this may be because they have made reports as described above. Sometimes Maynooth strikes lucky and they can get rid of good seminarians who are orthodox because they uncovered something - there was no doubt delight this summer that such a golden opportunity arose to get rid of another orthodox seminarian.

    But much more often, it is simply a case of not subscribing to the particularly modernist version of Catholicism taught at Maynooth. For example, if ones dares to believe in the Real Presence and challenges the belief that God is equally present in Starbucks - OUT. I'm surprised the 9pm Rosary has been made compulsory - that is a laugh. For years seminarians who prayed the Rosary were denigrated. And that is the fundamental problem in Maynooth and the Irish church in general - a failure to cling to the perennial doctrine of the Church. Fix that and the rest will fall into place.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Shane Doherty is a good man- I didn't know he was editor of 'The Big Issue'

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did he, for a while, become a church yes man ???

      Delete
  7. Sean Brady was vice Rector when I was in Rome. He was sharp missed nothing kept his head down and got on with the job. To my knowledge there was no holiday villa. There was a posh retreat run by an order of Sisters but this was not owned or controlled by the Irish College. I believe it was in or called Fiesole

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good Sean. But I'm sure your namesake did not confide in you?

      Delete
    2. Just a wry old smile Pat like our cat eying up one of our baby rabbits

      Delete
  8. At least, thanks be to God and His Blessed Mother, the Holy Spirit has complete control of the diocese of Clogher.

    The appointment, by the Divinely-led and inspired College of Consultors, of Monsignor Joe McGuinness, as Apostolic Administrator, after the resignation of Bishop Liam McDaid, is as clear a sign as could possibly be given, that God and all the angels and saints are looking after Clogher.

    A true paragon of pastoral genius, sober judgement, priestly zeal, fervent devotedness and profound spiritual wisdom, is now "minding" the seat of St MaCartan.

    It is to be fervently wished that our hopes be realised beyond all imagining and that God, in His infinite goodness and kindness, would vouchsafe unto the priests and faithful of Clogher, the making permanent of what is now only temporary.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not if Charlie Brown has anything to do with it :-)

      Delete
    2. Joe will keep the seat nice and warm for Duffy's lick-arse - Timo

      Delete
    3. Anonymous at 10:38 - well done! Even Pat seems to think you are being serious. I think you will win today's prize for irony and tongue-in-cheek hilarity! LOL

      Delete
  9. 10.16 I tend to agree somewhat with you. While the content is admirable such a long tome tends to discourage me from reading it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I must say I read every word three times with growing interest.

      Delete
    2. A superb contribution. I read it avidly. This writer has great insight and let us hear more. Whoever it is has the finger on the pulse.

      Delete
  10. Just wish posters would indicate to whom they are replying to, including you Pat, thanks

    ReplyDelete
  11. Agree, Pat, a great and deft piece. He knows this much and knows more. The pretence of objection on Martin's part to anything in Maynooth is laughable.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Why is it considered appropriate to speculate in public about the private affairs of Dr Donnelly and Shane Doherty - have they volunteered this information and do they want the exposure? If not, why is it even being discussed? Can't think it will be long before someone brings an ECHR challenge to the contents of this blog and comments based on their right to a private life. Hopefully the collections in Larne are large enough to cover the liability.

    ReplyDelete
  13. 10 .38
    What exactly will joe mc Guinness do, will he actually have a conversation with a real person whilst sat on this seat.
    No I suspect he will count the money all the rich farmers left for him and whinge over the ones that got away.
    It's all about money

    ReplyDelete
  14. We ARE NOT interested in the private lives of Dr Phelim Donnelly or Shane O'Doherty.

    We are only interested in their time in Maynooth, their impressions of the place and why - as TWO APPARENTLY VERY GOOD MEN - they were ditched.

    Maybe YOU do not want to know the truth ?

    ReplyDelete
  15. Pat, you want to know the private affairs of every bishop, priest, deacon or seminarian.
    It is laughable to say otherwise. If you get a sniff of anything at all they are down in your little black book and you will hound them beyond belief.

    I am looking to see a shred of human compassion on your blog.

    Where do I see it??

    I see it not

    Pathetic.

    Seminarian

    ReplyDelete
  16. Bishop Pat, I am more than happy to know the truth about our national scandal of a seminary but what happened in Maynooth to Dr Donnelly and Shane Doherty is their private business until they, not you, decide otherwise. If they want to give their impressions of the place, then that is fine. But not everyone enjoys exposure, even if it is not negative. Some of your blog exposes the truth and that is right and proper; large parts of it and the comments made, however, are an invasion of the legal and moral right to privacy of individuals and amount to unChristian tawdry gossip. There is a fine line but it is crossed regularly. Some circumspection might lend more credibility to the sensible points being made.

    ReplyDelete
  17. The fact that Dr Donnelly and Shane O'Doherty were admitted to Maynooth is a matter that is already in the public forum.

    Those who knew them in Maynooth speak of both of them as good men and excellent candidates for priesthood.

    Both were asked to leave Maynooth.

    Dr Donnelly, a late vocation, a mature man and a qualified medic, had complained about the homosexual subculture in Maynooth.

    Shane O'Doherty was dismissed during a brief interview with Diarmuid Martin.

    I think that they both have important insights into Maynooth.

    Of course they can choose to speak or not to speak.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Yes, Pat, I agree, sometimes you allow your blog to go into over drive. Sometimes I feel your desire for recognition and approval is too much.
    I wouldn't like any of my children to be mentioned on your blog. Today is mental health day and sometimes I think your blog has caused some people to suffer greatly.
    We have all made mistakes. I have made mistakes, You move on and learn from it but sometimes Pat I feel you don't want to move on.
    I feel compassion towards some of the people mentioned on your blog.
    Catholic Mother.

    ReplyDelete
  19. If they want to speak, contact them directly and ask them. You are not discussing on your blog the fact that they were admitted to Maynooth, you are attempting to ascertain why they left Maynooth. This is not your business unless they choose to discuss it. I am sure they are fine men, but you are overstepping the mark.

    Furthermore, your publication of the photograph of the seminarian from Oscott is nothing short of disgraceful - it is potentially defamatory and even if not it is a gross invasion of his legal right to privacy. There is simply no justification for this type of gutter journalism, and jumping up and down Trump-style about being on a search for justice and truth, will not obscure the grave injustices you are carrying out.

    You speak of the deficiencies of the Irish Bishops and you are very often correct. But if your criticism is to have any impact then you need to show Christian leadership as an alternative model, and so far that leadership is sorely lacking.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I disagree.

    I think that what is going on in Maynooth is the business of all of us.

    I think that if Dr Donnelly or Shane O'Doherty were done injustices by Maynooth it is a concern for all of us.

    Why do I think you are one of those who wants Irish Church cover up to continue ?

    Why do I think you are trying to put us off tackling the lack of leadership in the Irish Church?

    What is your agenda?

    ReplyDelete
  21. I believe your blog has taken a nose dive Pat. Repeatedly people have mentioned today they way that you have intruded into the private lives of people has had a negative effect on their lives.
    I would also add the reluctance you have shown to speak about your own private life is quite revealing.

    You rarely mention that you are bishop of a separate church that is no way affiliated with the Catholic Church.

    You never mention your own personal life and the relationship(s) you have. This is totally within your right to do so. It would be the decent thing to offer this same option to other citizens.

    Your rarely mention anything positive about the people mentioned on your blog. This is a lack of maturity. Good and evil runs through the heart of every person as was said by St Augustine. By focusing on a particular aspect of a person's fault you are being unjust in your criticism and quite frankly being naïve.

    In response to me and to other people you may wish to get defensive and say you are trying to highlight corruption and tell the truth. I would offer to you to hear what is being said and take it on board.

    I am not a part of any gay cabal or seminary system of any sort. I am offering this feedback as someone who has the right to leave a comment, or not, to be listened to or not, to be heard or not.

    The choice is up to you, Pat.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Whoa Pat! On a day with a most incisive article, the nearer you get to the truth of it, the more the Censors come out in droves! It's this bullshit censorship that shielded the child abusers for decades! Down with those who would cover up the truth! Keep at it, man! As they say, cui bono? The only people benefiting from secrecy here are those with a lot to hide.

    ReplyDelete
  23. What is going on at Maynooth is indeed the business of all. However, the SPECIFIC details of each individual's dismissal or leaving of Maynooth is most definitely not the business of each of us. It may indeed be a concern but that does not mean we have the right to pry into the lives of individuals.

    I do not know why you think that. But I suspect your methodology is that by claiming that anyone who criticises the excesses and objectionable aspects of your blog is engaging in a cover up or trying to prevent you tacking the lack of leadership in the Church, you thereby deflect attention away from the serious moral, legal and ethical issues that the nature of this blog raises.

    There are very serious concerns about the lack of leadership in the Irish church. I believe that Maynooth should be closed. It is a disgrace; its leadership a joke. But you have chosen to undertake the office of Bishop and as such, you too much be held accountable for your actions. It simply will not wash that your blog is above criticism merely on account of the fact that other bishops are wanting in leadership.

    As a Christian, we must indeed shine lights into dark places. That shining of the light does not involve the destruction of reputations or invasions of privacy, unless a clear public interest test is proven. Sometimes it is, but time after time, the comments and posts on this blog do not meet the public interest test.

    ReplyDelete
  24. I am a former seminarian and the last thing I would want is anyone delving into my private life.
    There are many valid points being made today Pat that you are putting up pictures of people without their permission.

    ReplyDelete
  25. This blog is a place where all - including you - can explore, examine, criticise etc the Catholic Church in Ireland particularly.

    Where else are people provided with a open forum in the Irish CC?

    This blog is primarily a blog that is CRITICAL of the Catholic institution.

    People do not have to read it.

    People can set up a WE LOVE THE IRISH CATHOLIC CHURCH blog if they wish.

    The blog is guided by the happenings in the church and my response to those happenings.

    Is it a perfect blog? Absolutely not.

    Is it an honest blog? Absolutely yes.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Seminarian at 11.24
    One one believe that a seminarian at this time on a Monday...should be engaged in something other than a blog.
    None of my 30/40 year old family would have the time for this
    I certainly would not when I was employed...and I was employed until 65
    Can u see what I'm trying to tell you here....

    ReplyDelete
  27. If you are talking about the picture of the Oscott seminarian - he himself placed that picture on the WORLD WIDE WEB !

    ReplyDelete
  28. I have to agree with 12.15. Where else in Irish society apart from your blog can truths be outed that would normally be subject to total censorship? Have a troublesome seminarian? Dismiss him without reason. Have a troublesome member of archdiocesan staff? Dismiss him and then make him a settlement with a non-disclosure order. Have a troublesome priest? Put him in a dump of a parish and let him feel the cold censure for a few years. Have troublesome church volunteers? Get them out the door and get their keys off them on the way out. The moral leader of this bunch asked the famous question, What is truth?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Very interesting Pat the way a lot of people are screaming at you today. Seems to me they just want all left alone and keep the cover up going on. You people should be at your Irish so called Bishops and the people in Gaynooth. Get a life and get off Pat's back. If you wanna piss and moan find somewhere else to do it. Keep up the good fight Pat.

    ReplyDelete
  30. What's going on today? Eh? If ye don't like the Blog, read The Irish Catholic of The Irish Times. Nobody's forcing anybody to read anything here. Such a lot of complainers all of a sudden! Wassup?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Pat, your blog describes itself as 'wise Catholic' and 'thinking Catholicism'

    Do you think it might be better to clarify that it is 'Critical Catholic'?

    I find it interesting that you claim your blog is not perfect when you expect it from members of the Catholic clergy.

    I am also surprised that you claim to be critical of Catholicism yet you dress like a Catholic cleric.

    I think that it's a shame that you don't offer any forgiveness to clergy who have made mistakes.

    And I don't have any agenda. I have nothing to hide. I am simply offering my observations if you are willing to listen to them.

    ReplyDelete
  32. The question I'm trying to answer in my head is whether Dr. Martin is sincere or just an amazing bullshitter and I'm in diffs about it today after reading the long article. What do priests of the Dublin diocese who know him think?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Just as well the Good Lord and DNA gave Pat a good strong back - well used to the hard road :-)

    ReplyDelete
  34. Could AB mean Amazing Bullshitter :-)

    ReplyDelete
  35. I think this discussion has been very fruitful and in fairness Pat has been open to listening to the feedback that is being offered today.
    Pat is clear today that his blog is anti-Catholic.
    We are offering Pat some honest reflection that what he says can have a negative effect on people's lives.
    I am honest when I say that I find it hard to reconcile how badly Pat was treated by the Church and the way that he is treating fellow Christians.
    People have a right to privacy. They have a right to have a good name.
    I am a concerned mother and I would not want my children treated in the way that Pat treats people.
    If you want to rush to Pat's defence I offer to you to clam down. Pat is well able to look after himself.
    Catholic Mother

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This blog is not anti Catholic but rather anti Catholic Abuse in all its forms.

      I practice the catholic faith. I pray. I celebrate Mass and all the sacraments.

      I believe in God and indeed the Real Presence in the EUCHARIST.

      But I abhor the use of the catholic faith for man made schemes etc

      Delete
  36. If someone is so desperate for recognition that they will keep repeating the same story again and again without any regard for the people involved I believe that an injustice is being done.
    Pat sets himself up as an moral authority as a bishop in the Christian faith. This requires a sensitivity to people's lives. It's not about a broad back. It's about looking out for the lost sheep who went astray and rejoicing when they repent.
    I am left wondering what position Pat would take in the parable of the Prodigal Son?
    GP

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Was Jesus "sensitive" when he went into the temple with the whip, when he called Herod a fox and the Pharisees a brood of vipers?

      I though our faith was founded on love - soft love and tough love - not on mans idea of sensitivity?

      Pat lover the Parable of the Prodigal Son.

      But it was all facilitated by the son's admission of wrong - not by the emotion of sensitivity.

      How easy it is to fail to tackle wrong by telling ourselves we must make "sensitivity" our God.

      Delete
  37. I offer to you the feedback that your blog is very anti-Catholic.

    Have you left the Roman Catholic Church?
    Yes.

    On your blog, do you only attack members of the Catholic Church?
    Yes.

    On your blog, do you only attack clergy of the Catholic Church?
    Yes.

    On your blog, do you avoid taking about your own personal life?
    Yes.

    On your blog, do you avoid taking about the Church you founded?
    Yes.

    On your blog, do you avoid taking about the good that clergy have done?
    Yes

    Do you wish me to go on?
    No!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I did not found a church.

      I am a member of the Church Jesus the Jew founded - which is not the same thing as the RC EMPIRE.

      Delete
    2. Pat everyone deserves a private life including priests seminarians and yourself. The problem comes when buggers overstep the mark and use and abuse others and the church they claim to represent. As I said before the Irish RC Church has lost its soul and empty vessels make the most sound.The Irish RC Church is form without matter and act without potency

      Delete
  38. Pat, I think your sense of an impending turning point is accurate. The bishops have sat on their hands and done nothing. You are getting criticisms for your lack of charity.
    This is clearly the point when in the face of denial most whistleblowers give up.
    But I have every confidence you won't.

    ReplyDelete
  39. 12.35
    Obviously you have no understanding of the word Catholic
    And as for Pat criticising everything Catholic, that's not true
    He is delving into serious problems within the Roman Catholic Church 'goings-on'

    ReplyDelete
  40. Pat, you come across to me as the Prodigal Brother.

    Disappointed and let down by the Church you loved and now it's time to get your own back by hurting priests and seminarians.

    Are you surprised by what you are hearing today? Are you able to hear it without getting defensive?

    There is a truth to be told. Does this need to be done with gossip and hurting people. I think not.

    It might come as a surprise to you Pat, but would people associate you being with being a caring, sensitive person? Only you can answer that.

    People might think of you as a person who has a blog that is full of sex and smut and rarely mentions any form of spiritualty.

    Again only you can answer this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "No man is a judge in his own cause".

      Your questions must be answered by the people I have ministered to for 40 years - and ultimately by God.

      Delete
  41. I have just read the blog so far today. Never so much sharp insight versus so much desire to shut it down. Sad really. I was in Maynooth when the Doctor was there. He was a holy guy, very quiet and a man of prayer. From the day he made his official complaint he was a changed man, stressed and under pressure. Word of his complaint went around the entire seminary - some of the senior seminarians were close friends of the directors of formation then, Des Hillery and Enda Cunningham, and they had full knowledge of the complaint surprisingly quickly. He was on his way out from that very day. Got no support at all from his Bishop in Derry, Hegarty.

    Shane O'Doherty got a poisoned chalice. He had the misfortune to be elected spokesperson by all of the first years and when the big battle commenced between a group of seminarians and the seminary council over kneeling at Mass in St. Mary's, he was caught in the middle. He had to represent student views to the council and when he did so he was shouted at and maligned as if he was involved in the protest, which he was not.

    Later one of the Belfast lensful pink panthers made an anonymous complaint about Shane that he was recording conversations (which was laughable) and he was summoned to Enda Cunningham's room to be confronted by the anonymous complaint which he felt was bullying and intimidation by the seminary and by the student concerned. Everybody knew within hours who had inserted the bitchy and entirely false complaint about Shane. Shane made the fatal mistake of writing letters of protest to Msgr Farrell and to Diarmuid Martin and to Enda Cunningham about being bullied and intimidated by Maynooth. That was the end of him. He was dismissed by Martin the moment he finished his final examination that summer. He was in the meeting with Martin for, he said, 30 seconds and got no reason for his dismissal.

    That era saw Felim Donnelly dismissed, Shane O'Doherty dismissed, PJ MacManus dismissed, Michael Quilty dismissed, and a number of Armagh and Raphoe seminarians leaving because of the No Kneeling at Consecration controversy. More left than entered. It was a mess. Felim, Shane, PJ, Michael and others were better out of it and most have gone on to find better lives of some worth outside the clerical crew.

    It's all blood under the bridge. None of the bishops cared a hoot about any of the intimidation and bullying by Maynooth - why should they? It's in their interests ultimately. It shreds the wheat from the chaff for them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Now thank YOU for telling us the TRUTH.

      Delete
    2. And I see Fr Des Hillery was made a Vicar General recently.

      Delete
  42. This is what has become of the Irish College villa at Formia.
    http://www.villairlanda.it/en/

    The College Trustees sold it in 1973. It was no longer needed as travel became easier and the seminarians were allowed go home during the summer.

    A summer's day at a previous Irish College villa in 1925.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSrywsRC1vs

    Irish seminarians and bishops on the ground in Rome in 1925.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSq-aDfJiiQ

    The Irish College in Rome today.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cJZijNGJ54

    ReplyDelete
  43. I agree with what 13.05 said at the end of their comment- we rarely hear of any spiritualty being mentioned on this blog.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ???? Is TRUTH not a spiritual entity?

      Is JUSTICE?

      Is HONESTY?

      Some people wouldn't know spirituality if it slapped them in the gob!

      Delete
  44. Pat, horrific and sad and dreadful reading today. What a cess pit Maynooth is. And what to make of Dr. Martin's objection to Maynooth? Was he serious or was it all a bluff? Are there no Dublin priests willing to enlighten us? Is everybody compromised in this church?

    ReplyDelete
  45. The idea that students were removed for kneeling at the consecration is laughable.
    I was a seminarian in Maynooth at the time and I know the guys who are mentioned in today's blog.

    Pat you have been taken in, trust me. There are many reasons why these guys were asked to leave. Trust me, none of them were bullied in any shape or way.

    Sure part of it could have been for the reasons that have been mentioned but people have their own reasons for leaving.

    I really don't see the point of why you are bringing all this up, Pat. People have the right to their privacy. The guys are my friends. They have moved on with their lives and are currently very happy.

    I think it's shameful the way that you try and serve your own interest Pat for your daily download of gossip.

    From a former seminarian.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "When drilling into a dark mountain in search of the gold of truth there will be much smoke, much dust, much mud and much sweat".

      Delete
  46. Would Vincent Cushnahan have anything to say about bullying in Maynooth by any chance?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As a canon law student - I doubt it. But I may be wrong.

      Delete
  47. Pat you raise a valid question.

    If some people 'wouldn't know spirituality if it slapped them in the gob', why don't YOU speak more about it?

    You claim to be a bishop. Is it reasonable to ask a bishop to speak about spirituality. I think that is quite fair.

    There is no need to bite my head off.

    I am only asking what I think to be a valid question.

    Maybe you enjoy talking about sex more than spirituality?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is the search to find and eradicate the cancerous growth at the centre of Maynnoth not a Spiritual Exercise?

      I am neither fascinated or repulsed by sex.

      When Woody Allen was asked if masturbation was a sin he replied: "Only if its not done properly" :-)

      Delete
  48. 13 10. Very interesting
    So to be ordained you need to shut up and allow yourself to be bullied
    I'm now wondering how Michael coped with this horrible way of life in his seminary before his life ended


    Talking of kneeling at mass, I've holidayed in Spain often and no one kneeled at the Sunday masses, only saw one man at the mass once and could have counted the men at other Sunday masses I was at.
    Just remembering now there wasn't any kneeling boards either.
    People here can kneel or not ,no one cares,, so thank god for some small mercies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In Maynooth you are not supposer to kneel - not at Mass anyway :-)

      Delete
    2. To kneel or not to kneel that is the question. For fex sake let people choose themselves. Kneelers should be available for those who want them. There also should be a choice of language thy vs you etc

      Delete
  49. Bishop Pat, what is going on with today's blog?
    It's like the Presidential debate that was held last night!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hope I am a Hiliary and not a Donald :-)

      Delete
  50. Something in the coffee of upset today, Pat boyo!! Cess pit says it all. Sad. Bad. Mad.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I agree with previous comments, Pat, if you want to maintain your credibility you need to make a great distinction between your Church and the Roman Catholic Church.
    Otherwise you will be compromised.

    Also, more compassion on this blog and on these comments would be nice from everyone involved!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Somehow today I think we have hit a very sensitive nerce !!! Sean Brady and sex?

      Delete
  52. Spiritual exercises would involve for me something like a reflection on the Word of GOD.
    How GOD is at work in our lives.
    How we can pray and support each other.
    These are the spiritual reflections that we miss.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How God is at work in our lives?

      John 1:5 “The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.”

      ???????

      Delete
  53. I think the nerve you hit was your lack of regard for people, Pat.
    Believe whatever you want to believe.
    Delude yourself if you want.
    Live if your own world if you want to!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It seems that my world has a lot of visitors - including your good self?

      Delete
  54. The Irish Church doesn't want heterosexual men. Plain and simple. If you are a heterosexual man in Maynooth you have to stay stchum about the "goings on". If you open your mouth, you are gone! End of story.

    The "internal anger" of heterosexuality is the new intrinsic disorder for the Maynooth theologians.

    ReplyDelete
  55. I'm exhausted reading all this bad news, Pat! You did seem to believe or praise Diarmuid Martin some time ago when his objection to Maynooth was first made public down south. What changes have you noticed since then in any of these areas which he seemed to object to? Any personnel changes? Any policy changes? Anything? Do you believe he was sincere? Or are we back to where we were before which is where all this crap was going on that's described very well here today? Archbishop Eamon Martin seems entirely unconcerned about anything being wrong in Maynooth. How can two Archbishops be so much in disagreement or wrong about a matter they both have oversight of? Who's burying his head in the sandpit/cesspit?

    ReplyDelete
  56. You are hitting the truth about Maynooth and the Irish Presbyterate Pat. And boy the boyos don't like it!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, indeed they do bot.

      And each day we are getting closer to the monster's beating heart!

      Delete
  57. 13 28
    Why don't you give us your definition of spirituality then....that should be interesting.
    I'm sure Pat would love to hear some poster come on and give us a little bit of spirit.... U....ality



    Go for it....I'm all ears

    ReplyDelete
  58. Each day closer, that's what we need.
    Don't let them get you down Pat!

    ReplyDelete
  59. The whole world is in a state of despair and nowhere more than in the Irish Church. I don't know will any good come of it but we need a root and branch reform before any healing can take place.
    The Irish people deserve to know what is happening with the Church that has sustained them for so long and how we feel it has been given up on us.
    I am fed up with the stories that are coming out on a daily basis.
    Enough is enough!

    ReplyDelete
  60. I've never heard as much about homophobia as on this blog.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Homophobia? Maynooth and the Irish Church suffer from heterophobia. Read the blog objectively instead of through your own lens.

      Delete
  61. A complete reform of the Irish Church is needed, Pat. The bishops have given up and we need to start with more involvement of the laity at every stage of the formation process in the seminaries.
    What is taking place is just shocking and we need to do more to allow the honest men become fine priests. For too long we have been silenced and we need to speak up more for who we are.
    Silence no longer!

    ReplyDelete
  62. 14 33
    Please show the homophobic posts
    I have never seen any and I've been reading for over a month now
    To me it's hypocrisy and bullying... that is the problems being discussed here.
    And misappropriation of laity donations.

    ReplyDelete
  63. OMG I have been away all day and only getting the chance to catch up with this blog now. Its boiling over here today Pat - this must mean your getting very close to something major.

    They have sent out the packs of dogs to bark and frighten you off Pat - I know you are a warrior for the truth and nothing will frighten you off.

    Keep it going - we are only nearing the ice berg yet.

    Not that Pat needs anyone to fight his corner - but he truly has this issue at heart and wants to stick up and offer a place for the small man who needs a voice in this troubled world. I have always found this blog a place where i can offer my voice on an issue that I want to and fair play to Pat for offering this place.

    if your not happy - skip along back to the pro cathedral or maynooth or where ever else you may want to crawl back and hide under. The time for hiding in the catholic church is over - this ended when the child abuse scandal broke and fair play then for some very honest journalists who offered a place to speak amongst all odds and treats of the catholic church

    ReplyDelete
  64. You must be blind @15.25

    ReplyDelete

  65. 14.44 you really right - bring it on.

    ReplyDelete
  66. A lot of touchy people about this blog today Pat, you must be rattling a few cages!

    @ 13.23: Said "There are many reasons why these guys were asked to leave." Oh yea!
    You try to discredit these good men by coming out with that and then you say they are you good friends, I don't think!
    Why don't you tell the full story and stop the tittle tattle. Did they contact Cardinal Brady about the matter?
    You're their good friend, perhaps you could tell us all about that!

    ReplyDelete
  67. 15 .31
    No, get my eyes tested yearly courtesy of the nhs
    Have lovely red rims on them too

    Still waiting on you to show the homophobic posts .

    ReplyDelete
  68. A lot of people shitting it big time on the blog today. Afraid the truth is going to come out and their going to be found out. well, believe it because you are going to be found out. Ab Martin is full of shit. Yes Diarmuid we know u put fr David Brough in Arklow. We know Stenson is gone from Killester, the one who covered up sex anuse cases issued in the Ryan report. We know you have brought Liam o Cuiv into Killester to be a Vicar Forane to help with Confirmations as well as be pp of Killester. You have shit on the Dublin people by not making public the Priests appointments this year. Your covering up for Brough. Derwin. Stenson. Lawless. Canon Damien. Your full of bullshit AB Martin. A coward like the rest of your brother bitches. Oops bishops. Someone has something on you . It will come out. Eventually.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Why can't a couple of bishops do all the confirmations in ireland
    Was at one in the Derry diocese a few months back...it was the most boring day for all concerned, you could see it in their faces.
    The talk given was so inane. !!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  70. DONAL MC KEOWN is inane, boring - an out and out blatherer.

    You do not have to be a bishop to confirm. That is only a tradition.

    The bishop confirming is really an opportunity for a bishop to visit a parish and also get an envelope from the PP.

    Confirmation can be made a lot more simple, interesting and local.

    In the Eastern Catholic Church a baby gets Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Communion at the one ceremony.

    The bishop is not a PRINCE anymore.

    In Christian tradition he is merely the SUPERVISING or SENIOR priest or presbyter.

    Lets get back to that.

    ReplyDelete
  71. What do we think of our bishops - West

    Neary

    Kirby

    Doran

    Fleming

    Kelly

    Galway VACANT

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Neary -A Non entity.

      Kirby - A Disappointment.

      Doran - A child in a man's body.

      Flemming - A cute hoor.

      Kelly - who?

      Delete

  72. Do they get an envelope from the pp? What for?

    ReplyDelete

  73. I have never heard this before - I'm intrigued - so they get something for doing the confirmation , thats fricken crazy

    ReplyDelete
  74. Yes that is the name
    I won't say where as my lovely grandkids live there.thank god we avoided Hegarty though.
    During my schooldays there was an awful upstart of a Bishop ther 1950 something

    ReplyDelete
  75. Was any priests moved during Bishop mc namee's time in Longford for child abusing ?

    ReplyDelete
  76. Neary is a senior bishop - an Arch villian

    ReplyDelete
  77. I would imagine that a bishop gets Euro / GBP 500 - 1000 per confirmation.

    When I was in St Peter's Cathedral in the early 1980's the administrator told me he gave Bishop Philbin £500 for confirmations.

    ReplyDelete

  78. Aw come on stop pat - seriously is this true? if so , this is completely crazy

    ReplyDelete
  79. It is true.

    I hope some PP will confirm it on here - even anonymously.

    ReplyDelete

  80. I want to be bishop if this is the money they get

    ReplyDelete
  81. So they get wined and dined and paid
    I was at a confirmation in the d and c...in a church mentioned here a few blogs back
    They were all dining in same hotel as we were....suppose they did need fed
    But getting parish funds on top of all the other funding is obscene

    ReplyDelete
  82. You will find the application form for bishop on the following site: www.vatican/bishops.con.dom

    :-)

    ReplyDelete

  83. Im amazed with this - that thy get a stipend for sacramental work. shocking behaviour

    ReplyDelete
  84. In America we have bishops 200 to 300 dollars for a confirmation cermony and his master of cermonies half of 300 dollars every year.

    ReplyDelete
  85. But all priests get stipends for dispensing the sacraments?

    When my brother got married some years ago in Elphin Diocese the PP told him the stipend for a wedding was a cow (the priest had a farm) or the financial equivalent.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Aw stop now , this couldn't be true , please tell me its a joke

    ReplyDelete
  87. American bishops are cheap according to Irish rates!

    ReplyDelete
  88. Its true.

    In my time in Down and Connor we also had to pay the bishop a fee of £10 for each Protestant we married or for each non Christian we married.

    They were called:

    Dispensations for Mixed Marriages.

    Dispensation for Disparity of Cult.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jaz ye!I wonder how much Popey got for my laicization

      Delete
  89. So yesterday we had an hysterical story based on the wrong document and a completely inaccurate interpretation of the effect of the document. If the writer cannot understand such basic elements of a story, how can we lend credence to the rest of the stuff that is written?

    Today we have an appeal for anyone who wants to stick their neb into the private business of Doherty and Donnelly, and we have a seminarian from England who looks to me like he was having a laugh with mates and who now finds his reputation sullied by the inability of this blog to maintain any standards of Christian decency or respect. There is definitely a turning point, and the turning point is that the credibility of this blog is in freefall. Yes, yes, we know that anyone who stands up for decent behaviour is an attack dog of the bishops, or is someone bricking themselves etc etc....YAWN.

    ReplyDelete
  90. How much did the bishop pay you to write that one?

    Or maybe you are a bishop?

    Maybe you are upset that we are revealing your financial perks and bonuses :-)

    ReplyDelete
  91. Yes you give a brown envelope for a baptism, a wedding, and a funeral
    I've done it for all those
    Of course we used to pass the box attached to a big long stick around at funeral masses
    I never minded giving the priest the brown envelope and he might wait a half hour on the bride to turn up.

    But paying a bishop is totally wrong
    Sure what else wd he be doing that day...nothing

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But he could have an Annie Murphy or a Frank Murphy to keep?

      Or he might have a Peter Murphy to put through college.

      Be "sensitive" please.

      Delete
    2. We never had brown envelopes for baptisms or weddings or funerals. It was at the discretion of the person involved. Undertakers might sometimes toss a few bob. Such funds went to the A P (arse pocket) account

      Delete
  92. So, if a bishops does 50 confirmations he earns between Euro 25,000 and 50,000 apart from his diocesan salary and expenses account?

    And he gets this in cash?

    And he tells the tax man?

    ReplyDelete
  93. Glad he/ she is an avid reader of your blog pat
    You certainly are popular today and yesterday
    Now he can have his tea

    ReplyDelete
  94. Maybe I am an Archbishop:-) But seriously, why didn't you understand the document from yesterday? It wasn't difficult.

    ReplyDelete
  95. How many parishes in a diocese?

    ReplyDelete
  96. From 20 parishes to hundreds of parishes.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Yesterday's document, to my reading, was a young 18 year old seminarian being forced to give civil legal immunity to Maynooth and his bishop.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Trying to change today's subject which is
    THE BISHOPS And Their Love of MONEY

    ReplyDelete
  99. this is absolutely crazy money for old rope - I'm shocked with it.

    ReplyDelete
  100. And being asked if he masturbated or if he didn't
    One wouldn't know which was worse...to answer a yes or a no

    ReplyDelete
  101. And their are many priests who do a funeral , I should say a visiting priest and straight away after a funeral he asks for the brown envelope and the sacristan gives it to him. And the PP of the Parish does be pissed. My Uncle was a Sacristan and told me of this situation arising many times.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Was always wondering how a bishop retired and some not retired could go to Lourdes every year
    I went once, but it cost too much so I won't be going back
    Anyhows one can pray the same at home or in the car or in bed or in the garden.

    ReplyDelete
  103. I was warned by a mischievous colleague that a certain bishop hated being given envelopes at Confirmation. So I never tried it. Sorry now I fell for that one.

    ReplyDelete
  104. The document merely says that if a seminarian is expelled he cannot sue for damages on account of the expulsion. Definitely no grant of civil immunity. In any case, it was presented as being the document that Connolly denied existed when clearly it was nothing of the sort. We were then treated to an analysis that a man who was raped on campus had forfeited his legal rights. It goes to credibility I'm afraid.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Big shout out to maynooth language department staff who are talking about this website and no doubt reading this now and are curious to find out why pat mentioned a colleague of theirs. Dark forces are at work. The plot thickens. Guten tag!

    ReplyDelete
  106. The document posted yesterday was from President Farrell's time.

    The current document has been further legally honed in Connolly's time.

    I am awaiting my copy and will publish it.

    ReplyDelete
  107. If a visiting priest does the funeral...u pay him and the pp
    The thing is now they don't get as many mass cards now to sign, as u can buy them in most monasteries for a couple of quid
    Most undertakers nowadays pay the priest and it's added to the next of kin account.
    TBH I've never heard of a priest having to ask for money...us irish are just know it's the done thing

    ReplyDelete
  108. It would be churlish to refuse such offerings (or to solicit them). Personally I declare them on my tax return and pass them on to a charity that claims the gift aid.

    ReplyDelete
  109. The Vicar General of a Diocese in England circulated a letter a couple of years ago to all Parish Priests. It clearly stated that it was expected of PP's to pay the Bishop £500 for each confirmation plus half the weekly collection plate! The Bishop also required a meal plus wine afterwards. Some Bishops expect a certain vintage of wine of course which adds significantly to the final overall bill.

    ReplyDelete
  110. A long read to here, Pat, this evening. It would appear that AB Martin was not about a root and branch clean up of his diocese, nor about a serious intervention in Maynooth. Moving his chess pieces randomly around the board he controls is actually pointless. His failure to intervene in any meaningful way in his own parish house - he is the PP of the Pro-Cathedral where Damian F. Canon O'Reilly is just the Adm - is shockingly hypocritical. Morale of priests in the archdiocese of Dublin must be very low these days with scandals escaping action. Time he flew back to Rome and a better man got in. Is the Pope's nuncio in Ireland doing nothing about all of this apart from jogging around the Park?

    ReplyDelete
  111. Pat do you know if a bishop gets a percentage of the weekly collection
    If so I'm stopping putting anything in my envelope.i had thought that my envelope was for my parish and nothing else
    There is an Envelope marked Peters pence...what's that? And mission Sunday
    And another one
    Education of clerical students. Lol....what for their grinder app!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  112. Yesterday's document is about more than civil legal immunity.

    It may be wrong to compare being a seminarian to a job, but how many jobs allow a person to be fired on the spot for no reason whatsoever? None.

    How many jobs come with no prospect of appeal? None.

    How many jobs can you be fired from without even being told why? None.

    So here we have people, some young, impressionable and developing an understanding of who they are. They make themselves vulnerable by opening up who they are to a formation process. In turn they sign a contract to wave rights even to know why they were dismissed or to appeal it. But what can go wrong when dealing with practicing Catholics???

    Turns out from th media that some of the vulnerable get dismissed for being too holy, kneeling during mass, being too heterosexual and praying too much. Meanwhile some crafty hoors using the seminary and priestly life as a gay circle are being ordained without too much difficulty.

    Perhaps if we look at the process this document allows we can see the bigger problem just beyond civil legal immunity.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Let me get this right. Is the suggestion that the bishop gets say £250 for each confirmation ceremony or £250 per head for each child confirmed?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But who would Shawny boy be paying 300,000 to in Canada? It was Canada that was mentioned on here. The Kilnacrotch crowd... do the have places in Canada? What are they...monstrous pretensions..Norbertines? Did Brendan S spend time in Canada?

      Delete
  114. The 300,000 wasn't taken from a Kilmore account, but from an Armagh account. Why should Armagh pay for Kilmore's sins? And it was an account Shawny boy didn't have complete control over... He had to twist a few arms to get the dosh. Now, what account could that be? One designated for a specific purpose, not for child abuse legal payments, of course. Maybe, a Cardinal O Fiaich library account, or some such legacy fund? Follow the money, Pat. You're getting close.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 300,000 from an Armagh account to pay off someone in Canada?

      This is a very serious matter.

      We MUST get the bottom of this story.

      What was Brady up to?

      Delete
    2. Where does the UK charity regulator fit into all of this? He who has the info needs to make a formal report. If the church wants to claim charity status to avoid paying taxes then it needs to be open and transparent with those who donate.

      Delete
  115. Where did the other man go to
    The other one who had to promise as a youngestr not to tell anyone

    Well if Armagh peeps reading here
    They won't be amused that's for sure

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you saying one of the boys got the 300,000?

      Delete
  116. Sean Baptist at 21:14 has hinted at something I have said to you before. No later than last night. Forget the Gaynooth business. If you want to expose the REAL scandal then FOLLOW THE MONEY. I repeat again FOLLOW THE MONEY !!
    There will be contributors to this blog who will help you. You already have your first clue.

    ReplyDelete
  117. No I'm asking as I've only heard of Boland

    ReplyDelete
  118. You know the tree by its fruits. There have been many rotten fruits produced by Maynooth: dodgy lying money-loving priests; good men who left themselves - disillusioned and punch-drunk by the so called christian formation or lack thereof - and decent men who were kicked out because they believed in ALL the teachings of Jesus Christ and had the courage to say that what they saw and heard was EVIL.

    The saints said that God permitted the Reformation because of the sins of PRIESTS. Priests will be held to a far higher standard of judgement than the laity which they are meant to teach, guide and serve. If a priest doesn't pray he is not in contact with God. Maynooth is anti-prayer and anti-Adoration of God in the Eucharist whence flows all the evil in the National Seminary.

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  119. @20:02, the document did not purport to grant civil legal immunity; that reading of the document is completely incorrect. And it is entirely wrong to compare dismissal from a seminary or university to dismissal from a job; the two are not at all analogous. I have little sympathy for Maynooth but I also have little sympathy for sensationalist blogs which are misleading gullible people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I disagree with you about the document.

      I also disagree with you about seminary not being an employment.

      However I do realise, from my own experience, that these matters are difficult in law - because the RC organisation has no respect for many rights.

      Delete
    2. @22:16

      1. Clearly you do not believe seminarians are entitled to fair and transparent decision making processes when being booted out of seminary.

      2. If you prefer a more like-with-like comparison why does The National Seminary Maynooth not have the same policy as Maynooth University with regard to students having rights to due process and transparent appeal?

      3. Having been to three different universities why has no university presented me with such a student contract?

      4. Which member of the seminary council are you? Or perhaps you're a former member? Or are you the member on a suspect sabbatical? Then again you may be any of the Trustees... Ye are all in it together.

      Delete
  120. So now us laity are called gullible people...hmmm.
    Is this how some priests see us.
    What about dismissal from a university then.? Oh of course not...a seminary is so much more sure it is

    Pat half your blog disappeared for a while...what were u up to ? Thought you had been censured again lol









    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. New to me !!!

      Interference from the Swiss Guards ???

      Delete
    2. This blog has big enemies,

      Who knows what will happen?

      Delete
  121. With all due respect, your understanding of the document is simply wrong. If you are going to attack Maynooth (and there are plenty of reasons why you should) you need to do so on a strong footing - arguing that this document confers civil legal immunity just weakens any case you are trying to make as your conclusion is self-evidently inaccurate.

    There is no way in which a seminary is similar to employment. Seminarians attend with zero guarantee of a job at the end of it, and thus it is similar to university, not employment. Have you ever heard of cases of students suing UCD or UCC because they got kicked out and being awarded damages? I haven't and I cannot see why Maynooth students think they should get damages if they get kicked out. Now that is not to say the process is a fair one - the history of Maynooth is that if you are orthodox in any way at all you get kicked out. I am simply commenting on the need for accuracy and not over-egging the pudding.

    As for @22:39, I have no idea why you associate accurate interpretation with being a priest. But yes, if someone believes that this document does indeed mean that a man who is raped on Maynooth campus has no legal recourse as the blog suggested yesterday, then yes indeed they are gullible.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You miss the true point of the document by focusing completely on the money. The seminarian cannot even appeal internally, they cannot question it. No doubt if they do they will be told they are angry anyway. Seminarians, like university students should be allowed defend themselves and should not be dismissed for being too holy, prayerful, heterosexual or shocked by fellow seminarians having gay sex sessions with each other.

      Your focus on one sentence is missing the point, or are you intentionally deflecting away from the money point?

      Delete
  122. The blog has opposition from 2 camps:

    (1) the old guard who want to continue to cover up and perpetuate the outrageous system at Maynooth and

    (2) those who like some of the fundamentals of the blog but cannot in conscience go along with the excesses and violations of dignity of individuals.

    Group 1 want to see the blog shut down and Pat silenced. We in Group 2 would be better considered as Loyal Opposition - we like some of the fundamentals but would love to see reform. Why? Because it would increase the credibility of the blog as a serious challenge to Maynooth and all the rest of it, and is something that could be taken seriously. At present, it is going downhill because it lacks consideration and respect for individuals who are marginal to the whole story (e.g. the Oscott victim from today). The more this type of story appears, the more it looks like a cheap tabloid rag undermining dignity and privacy. And I think that would be a great pity given some of the good stuff that the blog has done.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Or is this late nite document argument ment to deflect from the MONEY?

    ReplyDelete
  124. MourneManMichael11 October 2016 at 08:34

    Pat, about a year ago you kindly defended a comment I'd made and in so doing, referred to me/my comment, as from
    "one of our regular, reliable, and fair minded contributors". (Or words to that effect/along those lines). Thank you.

    I have not commented much lately, for in truth I'm disappointed with the direction the blog has taken. I did mail you privately saying I think you should ease off lest catering to the blog completely consumes you.

    I write now to say that the comments above by Anon @ 23:03 on 10/10 are, in my (to quote you) reliable fair minded opinion, very apposite, timely, and worthy of your serious consideration.
    MMM

    ReplyDelete
  125. All cash given to priests by willing laity goes into their pockets...where else
    If a relative gave me cash...I do the same
    Did you never hear the saying
    He still has his confirmation money....although to be fair most kids theses days put into their accounts for university
    I can't reveal how many accounts I'm funding
    The grandchildren just keep arriving.

    ReplyDelete