Friday, 24 November 2017

MAYNOOTH - THEN AND NOW

 A BLOG READER HAS SENT ME THE FOLLOWING FROM THE MIRROR FROM 2003.

I HAD NOT SEEN IT BEFORE.

IT SEEMS THAT THE MAYNOOTH PROBLEM HAS BEEN FESTERING A VERY LONG TIME.

My calling to be a priest was genuine and heartfelt .. but all the sex, drinking and drugs in the seminary made me quit. It was awful;

CHURCH SCANDAL AS MAYNOOTH SECRETS EXPOSED.


MIRROR GROUP 2003 As told to DEIRDRE O'DONOVAN




A FORMER trainee priest has revealed his experiences of sick sex, drugs and booze secrets which soiled Ireland's top seminary.

He lifts the lid on a society of sordid sexual abuse, heavy drinking and drug taking among a secret circle within St. Patrick's College in Maynooth.

And he believes the Church is turning a blind eye to the scandal which is forcing genuine wannabe priests from their vocations.

Some priests are members of a secret society called the Congregation of Saint Sebastian. As well as their boozing and dope smoking members cruise Dublin's Phoenix Park for sex and visit gay saunas in the city.

Duncan, not his real name, left the seminary when he was just months away from being ordained.

But he has never been able to tell his family the real reason why he walked away from his vocation.

Today in the Irish Sunday Mirror he tells his story, in the hope that the Church will finally face up to what went on at the very heart of the institution.

And he wants future priests to be able to follow their vocations, without living in the constant fear of sexual abuse.

Duncan is now in his late 20s and from Munster.

Here he tells his whole shocking and disturbing story.

For as long as I can remember, all I wanted was to be a priest. My family aren't very religious and they aren't Holy Joes or anything like that, but I always knew what I wanted - to become a priest and serve the community. 

"When I was leaving school, people tried to change my mind, but I was determined to follow my dream.

"It was the happiest day of my life when the Archbishop accepted me as a student for the diocese because I was starting out on the road to becoming a priest.

"That was in the early 1990s and mine was a genuine and heartfelt calling.

"The first month was very tough, because there was no talking most of the time between the 20-odd other seminarians who started with me, just prayer.

"But when the other lay students started at the university, it was great because we were mixing with them at lectures.

"It took six or seven years to become a priest, depending on whether or not you had previously studied French.

"It was a tough time, but the older seminarians took the younger students under their wing. And at the time, I thought that was great, that there was someone looking out for you.

"But eventually I realised that there was something else going on.

"Some of the older seminarians would invite young students to their room where they would ply them with drink and cigarettes and cigars, which was totally against the rules of St. Patrick's.

"And we're not talking about a few cans or bottles of cider either. They were knocking back bottles of spirits and wine.

"I eventually realised that a group of these older students were 'grooming' the younger ones for their own sexual ends. It was an evil, manipulative way of them taking you under their wing.

"And ultimately led to abuse. Abuse of innocence. No-one spoke about what was going on at Maynooth.

"We each had a spiritual director who we could go to for counselling and just a general chat.

"But I never discussed what was going on because of the implications I felt it would have.

"I was afraid they would say, I'm sorry you can't be a priest."

I WAS well settled into college when my own worst experience happened to me. While out walking in the grounds one day, I was grabbed by one of the fellow seminarians.


"He threw me to the ground and held me down while trying to sexually assault me. But I fought him off.

"The worst thing about that experience was that I felt couldn't talk to anyone about it. I was completely alone, isolated and lost.

"I was innocent and that was stolen from me by people more senior to me, by people who were only months away from ordination. 

"They made me feel unworthy, and that was the most painful thing about it all. Because they made me feel that I wasn't worthy to become a priest.

"I would cry myself to sleep at night.

"It wasn't long after this that I became aware of a secret group called the Congregation of Saint Sebastian.

"He was a gay saint and there was a core number of students at the college who kept this secret society going.



Image result for gay st sebastian

"They were the ones grooming the young, vulnerable students to initiate them into the congregation, to keep it going.

"Some members would sleep together at night, and it wasn't uncommon to walk into the toilets to find some members engaged in unnatural sex acts.

"Just sitting down to dinner with this group was horrific because all the talk was so sexually explicit - you wouldn't hear it on a building site.

He says that the authorities were not aware of the core of the problem, but he couldn't believe the kind of things that were going on around him.

"For some bizarre, strange reason, those people actually went ahead and were ordained into the priesthood.

"And then the college held a conference with hundreds of seminarians from around the world," he said.

"The scenes that followed you wouldn't see in a gay nightclub. The booze was flowing and some of the delegates were openly cruising for action.

"It was known that on that particular night the sexual activity within an inner circle of the seminary during the night and early in the morning was unbelievable."

He also claims that certain seminarians would cruise the Phoenix Park looking for action. They also frequented gay saunas in Dublin.

"But it wasn't just homosexual relationships going on within the seminary. There were students sleeping with women as well. Why else would seminarians be carrying condoms?

"And there were some who used drugs as well. Hash and that kind of thing, but I was never involved," he said.

"But what was so amazing about all of this was that these people were being ordained as priests.

"I'm not saying that every priest who was ordained was like that. But some of them were. They are serving in our parishes now.

"I joined the priesthood just as the sex scandals within the Church were becoming public.

"But let me tell you that what Bishop Casey did was nothing compared to what went on in certain circles within St. Patrick's.

"Eventually, I had to make a decision. It absolutely broke my heart, but I knew I couldn't continue with my vocation.

"I had seen too much, experienced too much and could not allow myself to become part of the hypocrisy. After much agonising, I decided to leave the priesthood.

I CONSIDERED committing suicide rather than leaving, because I just didn't know what I was going to tell my family.

"They had been so supportive of my decision and had been so proud of me. But now I would be leaving, and I could never tell them why.

"I didn't understand what had happened, so how on earth could they?

"When I told the authorities I was leaving, they didn't ask why.

"They offered no help or support. It was just a case of, 'When can you vacate your room?'.

"Suddenly I went from this artificial environment where we were cut off from the real world to being left out in the cold. Their behaviour was anything but Christian.

"I loved my work within the community, helping people out. And I know I would have made a great priest.

"But instead I am left with the guilt and shame, which is not my own, but the legacy of my time in that place.

"I have just finished counselling, which I have been attending for almost three years. It has been a very difficult process, but I just want to move on with my life now.

"I don't go to mass any more.

"People will ask why I'm doing this, telling my story.

"I have agonised about it, but I just want the Church to know what went on in Maynooth.

"The Catholic Church has been brought to its knees, but they haven't learned any lessons from previous scandals.

"They are too preoccupied with their teaching and what the Bible says but they fail to get in touch with reality, with the way people live their lives today.

"And failing in the process to actually hold its hands up and say, 'We're actually doing the wrong here'.

"It is unnatural to have these men living in close quarters like that. They should be living within the community.

"If I can stop what happened to me happening to one other seminarian, then this pain will be worthwhile.

"That's all I can ask for."

Last night the Irish Sunday Mirror tried to contact St. Patrick's College, Maynooth, but no-one was available for comment.

"There were many very genuine men who were not involved in such activity and also were committed to becoming good priests but there were others who were living double lives."



PAT SAYS:

Well, that is how it was for one seminarian from Munster in 2003. 

We all know how it all came to a head last year with the Grindr scandal and Diarmuid Martin moving his seminarians to The Irish College in Rome.

And, all this took place AFTER a cardinal had visited Maynooth and given it a clean bill of health!

How are things in Maynooth now? We don't know!

And how are things in Rome now? We don't know either. The Irish College certainly had its own problems in the near past.


What we do know is:

1. The Catholic priesthood is now a gay profession.

2. This means that the Catholic priesthood is being and has been homosexualized.

3. We know that priests and seminarians are visiting gay pubs, clubs and saunas for sex.

4. We know that priests and seminarians are in sexual relationships with each other.

5. We know that there is a lot of priestly and seminarian sex at events like World Youth Day and Lourdes pilgrimages.

6. We know that promotion in the Church often happens by doing your superiors sexual favours.




7. We know that bishops, seminary authorities, and religious superiors are turning a blind eye to all the "strange goings on".





8. We know you can be thrown out of one seminary or religious order for sexual activity and be immediately accepted into another seminary or order.

9. We know that heterosexual seminarians have been intimidated out of seminaries by gay cliques. 

10. We know that very unsuitable people are often involved in priestly formation.


And we also know that things have been getting much worse since Duncan spoke about his experiences in 2003!







167 comments:

  1. Utter rubbish.

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    1. I think that particular student was probably right in his own judgement that he shouldn't go through to Ordination. He was very disturbed and affected by the wrongdoing which surrounded him. He did not have the maturity and inner strength to keep ploughing his own furrow and to achieve his goal irregardless of what others were doing. Being able to withstand peer pressures in any form is essential in situations where others are falling by the wayside. (Peer pressure is of two principal kinds. It can seduce one to join in and copy or secondly, it can repel and knock one off course because you lose confidence in your own ability to withstand. Maturity means that you are equally immune to both types. Time after time we have read blog stories where students just didn't have that maturity to withstand both kinds of peer pressure equally and successfully. Watch out for some more as people relate their personal experiences and reasons for leaving the seminary etc. Once you are aware, you will be able able to spot them easily and correctly identify the type of pressure which was their Achilles heel. It is a tough but important step in life to fully take responsibility for you own decisions and not to delegate blame no matter what the adverse circumstances. It is often this last step that people cannot take.

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    2. How can you expect any rural 18 year old to have the "maturity" you talk about?

      How can a lamb survive a pack of wolves?

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    3. This does not explain the large number of fully mature guys who were fully able to withstand the queer pressure of Maynooth, but were still kicked out (without explanation) for a variety of false reasons, the main false one being that they were allegedly 'fundamentalist'!

      They never got any chance to make any decision, because they were booted out in short order.

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    4. It's also blaming him for not being able to stand living in a cess pit.

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    5. @00.54
      That is the type of reasoning a seminary council applies. It is also the type of reasoning that is negligent in ridding Maynooth of the people who destroy holiness and makes a mockery of the church and the faith.

      Alternatively you can form young men with good example and good guidance.

      Forming young men by exposing them to 7 years of dysfunction and abuse in an environment that has little outlets - like you advocate for - has been demonstrayed to not work. Pull your head out of your arse

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    6. The poster @00.54 describes the two principal types of peer pressure very accurately and clearly and is clearsighted in this.
      Nowhere does the poster say that he/she approves of the lack of guidance and neglect of sincere and adequate formation. Indeed it follows on naturally that the poster would have expected that as a standard starting point.
      Some immature 18yr old boys will be suitable to stay the course. Some won't.
      The ethos and norms in any institution are first and foremost the responsibility of the management. Then everyone who joins is expected to accept and contribute to them being upheld.

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    7. @13.37
      Maynooth management take no responsibility for the seminary's ethos.

      Young immature people may be immaturebut should not be thrown to the wolves in Maynooth strange goings on. They were good enough to come forward and should be seen as more than collateral damage.

      You place ethos above humans - but the lived ethos in Maynooth is dysfunction, non catholic and destructive.

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  2. Surely the bottom of that particular barrel has been scraped many times before. Nothing new here.

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    1. We are very far from reaching the bottom of this barrel I assure you.

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    2. The piece is fiction. It says that smoking was forbidden in Maynooth -- that can be checked.

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    3. Smoking in bedrooms was forbidden in the 1990s, as was having candles in rooms after a student nearly started a fire in Long Corridor. Maynooth had two disastrous fires (St Mary's House in the 19th century, and New House was gutted in 1940), so there was little desire for a third one.

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    4. 11:19 - your "vocation" is fiction...

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    5. Direct quote from the Maynooth campus accommodation and conference centre website: "Smoking is strictly prohibited in all buildings on the campus".

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    6. Very few places had complete smoking bans until the growing health and safety awareness and work legislation of these more recent years. Smoking was so common that non - smokers were a small minority. Even the strict teacher training establishments like St Mary's, Falls Rd allowed smoking in the Common Room as it was expected that lots of the 18 yr old entrants would already be smokers and they were. It was a different era with little amount of disapproval and high tolerance of smokey restaurants, pubs, cinemas and workplaces.

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  3. "Duncan" was obviously with Cashel & Emly diocese as he mentions his archbishop in the article and, as he's from Munster, Cashel is the only archdiocese in Munster. I'm not surprised that he got no support from Dermot Clifford. At least 25 priests have left the ministry in that diocese in the past 20 years or more. Clifford drove most of them out of the priesthood and gave zero support to any of them. Sadly, that's not unique in Irish diocesan priesthood. In its current form the Irish Church is finished yet no one will face reality. The priesthood will be dead and buried in less than 20 years.

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  4. The priesthood is now a 100% gay zone. Any ordinary person will tell you that.

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    1. +Pat wants to defag this zone. It would be like trying to disarm America. It's too late.

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    2. Very true 17:31. It is hard to see how there can be ever be a healthy demographic in the priesthood again. The gate keepers and chiefs are nearly all the same side now. If you are hetero and want to be a priest keep the hell away from Maynooth.

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    3. And some extraordinary people know otherwise...

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  5. Duncan's tale is heart breaking. The first fervour of an idealistic young man seems to have been subjected to the blunt force trauma of exposure to the corrosive shadow side of institutional Catholicism. How utterly shocking it must have been to learn that his most cherished ideals were to be formed and packaged into a rehearsed speech designed for public consumption, where Gospel paradigms and parables are a poetry recital, designed to move one for a moment, ephemerally, with no lasting effect, whilst the underbelly of the institution is smeared and tarnished by the filth it wades through. This is no natural struggle between grace and human weakness, because there is no struggle, but a cynical and fxxck-you Bacchanalian debauch and orgiastic romp, presided over by a lost generation of 'formators'.

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    1. Hyperbolic language weakens that post at 5.28, like wading through slurry...

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  6. I was thinking as I read this piece that there's something not quite right about it, despite knowing that these things do happen. I'm not sure what though.

    Pat as a real service, with all your knowledge I'm sure it would help a lot of people if you made a list of the diocese and orders which *do* throw people out for rampant sexual activity.

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    1. I cannot think of any.

      In fact some dioceses and religious orders seem to specialise in taking on men who left other places for being actively gay.

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    2. I imagine it would be easier to get through seminary if you were gay. And how amusing it must be for some.

      I often imagine Keith O'Brien being wined and dined by some rampant homophobic tycoon and... then returning home to his male lover and the two of them laughing their heads off.

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    3. Nothing deficient about your imagination then, poster @ 14.04

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    4. Really, Keith.

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  7. I can assure everyone reading this - this is utterly TRUTHFUL! Am I in pain saying this, yes I am! I to left (God was directing me to safety) seminary due to severe pressure from such groups (btw they have many names depending on the seminary, but the same purpose in mind).

    Once one leaves seminary due to this pressure one is left to fend for oneself, to try to make sense of it and attempt to fight the Church pressure outside seminary (parish, old friends, esp. clerical friends). One's vocation still burns deeply BTW and this is another source of continuous pain! They (Church, parish, community & family) even make you doubt yourself to the point that you ask; 'did I make such an awful thing up'! Fact is I / we did not, the external pressure was powerful, all absorbing and runs deep into family and community life. The worst thing is the whispering campaign and then exclusion because, well 'he is not loyal'!

    This story has been told by hundreds of ex-seminarians if I may be allowed to expand. We are not making this up, it is painful - we loved our Church so deeply and we still live in the bi-polar world of was it me or was it them! Even though it was them, but the powerful world of moral mind control is hard to shake!

    I am not great with words so please be patient with me. This experience for many ex-sems has been very painful and many have not been able to get on with their lives, some thankfully have and others have been very brave, as in your Oratory. Many of us honestly admire this courage and it has given us such hope to break the chains of Church control. In rural Ireland this is not easy. I was lucky to have had family in business and was able to gain employment with the need for their references.

    This is my first time writing on this blog but I feel that I must speak to state that this article is the TRUTH (I am not to subject of the article BTW). In fact I would argue that the article is very tame!

    A few of us ex-sems have begun to meet up and are thinking of forming a group, no agenda but to tell our stories in safety and confidence.

    Thank you for allowing me to speak.

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for speaking.

      Why would we not allow you to speak?

      Why would we not acknowledge and deeply feel your pain?

      If I can do anything more for you please let me know.

      You were a victim - and hopefully a survivor - of what popes have called the "smoke of Satan" that has entered the Church.

      It's entry point is clericalism.

      Delete
    2. Maybe form a closed group on Facebook or Whatsapp? I'd join it.

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    3. I don't know about whatsapp, but a "Closed" fb group still publicly shows the profiles of the members. A "Secret" fb group is to the best of my knowledge, completely hidden, but you can only be added to it if you are already fb friends with another member or if you let an admin or group member know the email address (NOT password) that you use to sign into fb, that allows a fb group invite to be sent. Think I'm correct there, unless anyone knows otherwise. In my publicising of what happened to me at Farnborough Abbey, I have created both a public page and "Secret" group. Here is the address of the public page and anyone interested in the "Secret" group can "Message" the page.
      https://www.facebook.com/amorveritatis/

      I would like to apologise to +Pat and others if a comment I made the other day appeared to have reneged somewhat on our common purpose. Todays blog and other recent comments have re-focused my attention!

      Don't suffer alone. Join with others and +Pat for mutual support.

      We shall overcome some day!

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    4. It's a bit old fashioned now but you can set up a completely closed yahoo group.

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    5. Sorry, I don't get it when someone talks about nothing and keeps going on and on and on.

      Is there any strange goings-on, pooftahs, or silverdaddies?

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    6. To poster 23.11
      Try to cultivate being a good listener. That should make a big difference. For a start, you will begin to get the knack of putting value on other people's authentic viewpoints and not just your one blinkered outlook on the world.

      Delete
    7. Forming "groups" about everything and anything is very cool at the moment. Why not, if that's what you want to do?
      It, like most things, will have both benefits and drawbacks.
      Yes, that is how it is.

      Delete
  8. "... older seminarians took the younger students under their wing."

    So that was the reason the seminarian had wings yesterday!

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    1. I thought it was the graduation gown for somebody who had gone through The Wing in St Malachy's College, Belfast. Are you sure I am not right? It would be like something they'd choose and get a wee sewing woman to run up the wings.

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    2. "... get a wee sewing woman to run up the wings.."??
      They have enough trouble with wee women running up the corridors..

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  9. Maynooth ceased to be a seminary, in the traditional sense, in 1966.

    In my time in the 1980s the chief problems were drunkenness and seminarians having lay student girlfriends. There were camp seminarians (though many gay men are not camp), and they were nicknamed "the tulips".

    A Kilmore seminarian was thrown out in first year after being found engaged in sex with a man in the town toilets.

    Fr Frank Duhig would openly ask seminarians if they were gay and if they said yes they were expelled.

    There was no gay activity visible, apart from an Armagh deacon imported from the Irish College by Tom Fee. That deacon, who knew that he was very handsome, when drunk would go along the bedroom corridors of St Mary's House seeking sex.

    A Maynooth seminarian of that era died of AIDS following ordination.

    And there was the case of a seminarian caught in the Junior Infirmary bedroom of a senior priest academic. The priest was forced out of the college but the seminarian prospered.

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    1. Who died of AIDS following ordination? Put up or shut up.

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    2. Many priests have died of AIDS 09:46. Ledwith also left a trail of destruction on that hellhole parading as a seminary.

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    3. 1966? Surely 69.

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    4. I wonder how many are using church funds to buy PrEP.

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    5. @11:08, the Maynooth Grindrs Association office is in room 69, Ledwith House, Maynooth but I'm sure that's a coincidence.

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  10. Because the seminary community in Maynooth is so small now they all live in one building. In the past each year group had its own building, the college was divided into three divisions. These were Junior Division (years 1-2); Middle Division (years 3-4); and Senior Division (years 5-7). Each division had its own oratory and its own Dean of Discipline. Seats in the college chapel were assigned so that students sat in their own class blocks.

    Even in the refectory, students, informally migrated to their own class tables.

    All of these sensible arrangements reduced the possibility of 18 year olds being taken under the wing by older students. In my first and second year I had very little contact with senior students except those from my own diocese.

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  11. 2003? Rory Coyle would have been 2 years from ordination then. I looked at the list of ordinations for 2005 which included Rory Coyle and there were 8 men ordained, including the bold Rory.

    Two were from the Derry diocese - Fr. Kevin Duddy who was shortly afterward in the press for having a baby with his Japanese wife in Japan after he left the priesthood, and Fr. Peter O'Kane who was shortly afterwards listed as a Dominican in Dublin.

    Rory Coyle was later publicised for 'strange goings on' such as AB Diarmuid Martin highlighted.

    So, three out of the eight hit the rocks pretty fast which would not be out of sync with your story today.

    Fr. Steven Crossan of Dromore, who was later outed snorting cocaine through a £20 note in his parochial house with a bunch of male friends in tow after a two-day party/bender - he would have been in Maynooth in 2003 with others.

    And of course, Dr. Felim Donnelly entered in 2004 and quickly fell foul of the 'strange goings on' when his official complaint fell on Maynooth deaf ears, particularly when he had mentioned Fr. Ronan Drury in it, God Rest His Soul anyway.

    It is absolutely true that seminarians were still cruising the Phoenix Park rent-boys in the years after 2003 and while Dr. Donnelly was making his suicidal complaint. I know this for a fact and a prominent Derry priest, friend of Steven's, could witness to this first hand.

    I believe the story, unfortunately, and the Bishops are up to their proverbials in this horrible place of "formation".

    May it soon bite the dust.

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    Replies
    1. Kevin Duddy did indeed leave and marry but Peter O Kane put in 11 years service in Derry and only joined the Dominicans (no reason given as to why) last year

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  12. What about the k&l seminarian and his boyfriend from the north! Never left Maynooth.Everyone knew about that and nothing was said. He was meant to be having a sexual activities with other priests there to keep it hush 3somes even! Us lads knew what was happening.. he then disappeared and now appeared in the Irish college Rome. Blind eyes are still happening!! Ex-sem.

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    1. Tell me about it, LO'DB of K&L and Tommy Mc used to keep half of St. Mary's house away with their late night "tea parties".

      If you were not gay, or at least putting out than you were put out. I will never forget the look on my bishops face the day he uncovered that I was hetrosexual. He was flabbergasted.

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    2. Im assuming this was Fitzpatrick your referring to. walked about like he was the big man during the week then come the weekend when his bf/other half from the north arrived he was all over him like a rash, never left the roost hand and hand walking back to st Mary's, the place was a joke! Better off out of it- any lads with true vocations better to carry it out in a different way .

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    3. ".. you're referring to.."

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    4. At 10.12.

      In short the answer to your question is no.

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    5. The initials say it all.

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    6. +Pat, what you got to say about this?

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    7. Some particularly dangerous characters named here. L O'DB caused great damage in Maynooth. He was clearly discerning his sexuality rather than his vocation. He was a dagger in spirituality but the deans let him have a free reign. Tommy, he gas had plenty of blog posts already. As for Sean... id not have said he'd sleep with guys, but Ger Fitz surprised us too so you'd never know.

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    8. I believe that this person and his boudoir has yet to be tapped in this blog, unlike his partner in crime, Tommy.

      But some readers know who this refers to, e.g. "25 November 2017 at 12:03".

      He was not ordained and returned to private life after wrecking havoc in Maynooth. Hopefully he has matured - but he was never a victim of Maynooth. He was an instigator and protagonist. He quickly got in with the existing active circle, allowed his room be their boudoir and strutted his invincibility around the St. Mary's as proud as punch. Until he was asked to leave after four years. He was too obviously vindictive for clerical life.

      He was a bully of anyone who was heterosexual, and the word bitching is not a strong enough word for this middle-aged biddy. It is hard to wish him well - as is my christian duty. This is my challenge, but at least for the sake of those around him I hope he has gained a lot of cop on, manners, humanity and decency.

      If I never met him again it would be too soon. If I could never have met him in the first place it would be too ideal.

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  13. 2003 in the papers? How come it took so long to become a major issue or is that a silly question? Most people are logical and intelligent. The general public staying quiet is no longer an option

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    1. Because Archbishop Diarmuid Martin killed off the Dr. Donnelly complaint in 2005/6 and got rid of his other bugbear, RAI man Shane O'Doherty from Derry who had backed Dr. Donnelly, that's one of the reasons why. Cover up cover up cover up.

      How did he ever get away with claiming he was later objecting to 'strange goings on'? You're having us all on, Diarmuid Boy!

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  14. Some of the student accommodation in Salford University has double beds. Sign of the times or what.

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    1. Only for married couple students, surely?. You can book a double bed room in Maynooth seminary, no questions asked whether you are married and gay couples can do so too, no questions asked. If anyone doesn't believe me Google Maynooth Campus Accommodation and Conference Centre.

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    2. Double beds are a way to take in more students by the institution even though they really haven't the room for them.... Thin edge of the wedge... Four bedded units coming up soon... What's next? Dormitories... The wheels of history turn and there's nothing new under the sun!

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  15. There is no sin in being heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual.

    I don't mind if my priest and confessor is straight or gay or bi or something else I've never heard of. I just hope that he will be truthful and sincere while attempting to walk the walk as even I do in my lay life.

    I don't even mind if my priest falls and gets up again.

    But I don't want a guy who knows he is intending to use the priesthood as a cover for another life, quite comfortable and secure while he has other intentions. This kind of guy doesn't have the courage to make his life in the world of work and debt and struggle and this is what I can't stand - hiding out in a false world of clerics he really can't stand.

    I feel that any man who wants gay sex and lines of coke should have them, but pay the normal price of a normal life of work and struggle OUTSIDE the hypocrisy of priesthood.

    Our Bishops don't seem to share my view. I believe this story entirely.

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  16. Fr Ronan Drury was the campest priest I've ever met. He liked pretty boy seminarians but if you failed to appeal he took a dislike and would rubbish the student to the deans and the president.

    He had an amazingly soft life. Lived in Maynooth for decades, waited on hand, foot and finger, in a place modelled on Upstairs, Downstairs. Took about five lectures a week, had a huge luxurious apartment in the college, and never served a day in a parish yet thought he should teach priests how to preach.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Michael Kelly of the Oirish Catholic had a nauseating Tweet about attending Ronan's funeral Vespers in Maynooth. Wise up, Tyrone Kelly, and write something truthful for a change.

      Delete
    2. Msgr Dermie Farrell and Fr. Enda Cunningsham and AB Diramiad Martin couldn't get rid of Dr. Donnelly's complaint about DroneOn Drury quick enough.

      There are certain pillars of Maynooth you canny criticise.

      Delete
    3. 9:48 Michael Kelly said that Ronan Drury made a ""deep impression" on everyone he met.

      He certainly made a deep impression on me during my second year in Maynooth. In fact he made several!!!

      Delete
    4. I too saw that suckyuppie Kelly Tweetie reference to 'deep impressions' and wondered if he was implying something more.

      Delete
    5. Old Kitty Drury. I wonder how she’s faring on the other side?

      Delete
    6. She'll have Angel's Wings surely?

      Delete
    7. The holier than thou MK of the IC ain't all he appears. The IC editor has appeared on certain topical apps as well...

      Delete
    8. facebook and twitter. I follow him. he always updates his social media which I like. A gentleman.

      Delete
    9. Welcome to the conversation MK!

      Delete
    10. There's a wee tribute to the late Prof Drury on the ACP website. Turns out he attended some of the ACP moaning sessions, sorry I meant meetings. I wonder what benefits Ronan thought might accrue in a "renewed" church? Sadly for him a renewed church produced fewer seminarians to train.

      Delete
  17. Very well put @09:35

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  18. Whoever you are going on about your Dr. Donnelly - he was a dumb schmuck if he thought he could complain about Fr. Ronan Drury and survive.

    Had he no common sense at all? It makes sense they got rid of him if he was that dumb.

    Enda Cummingham was right to make Donnelly his Enema No. 1.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did Dr Donnelly not have principles and perished because he met men with none?

      Delete
    2. Och come on you too, Pat! So Ronan Drury in homiletics sessions would witter on about 'pillow talk' and pinch boys bums and stand behind them and grab their rib cages to expand their lungs while having to place his crotch against their asses to make his point - and Donnelly thought this and other behaviour amounted to a 'homosexual ethos' in Maynooth?

      Out the gate with him, he was anti-Gay. No loss.

      Delete
    3. 10:27 you are a sick member of the mafia. Your kind are well and truly now exposed and boy ye don't like it!

      Delete
  19. 05:28 & 09:35, well said!! 

    There is crass hypocrisy but something much worse, as 05:28 points out: an ‘in your face’, sneering, skitting and laughing “Fxxx you” mentality that is almost, if not actually, demonic.

    These guys are having a laugh. They will have nice comfortable lives, the adulation of some trusting and, let’s face it, gullible people and they can ride, screw and debauch to their hearts’ content. 

    Because after all it’s just own big joke to them - God, the Church, the Catholic Faith. This brood were spawned in Hell. 

    The so-called “formation” team? Lucifer couldn’t have done better himself. 

    The bishops themselves are either completely inert or personally involved (or been involved themselves in the past) in the bacchanalian antics. 

    God help us! Rid your Church of this pestilence.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Would this be a suitable Lament for Kitty Drury?

    By the British Poet Laurate. Carol Ann Duffy.

    This writer is gay,
    and the priest, in the old love of his church,
    kneeling to pray.
    The farmer is gay, baling the gold hay
    out in the fields,
    and the teacher, cycling to school each day.
    The politician is gay,
    though he fears to say,
    knotting his tongue, his tie;
    and the doctor is gay,
    taking your human pulse in her calm way.
    The scientist is gay,
    folding the origami of DNA,
    and the judge, in his grey wig, is gay.
    The actress is gay,
    spotlit in the smash-hit play;
    the butcher, the baker, the candlestick-maker,
    our children, are gay.
    And God is gay.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, it would not. You are missing the sarcastic irony in this doggerel piece completely.

      Delete
  21. It seems like the Maynooth rash is the itchiest and getting the most scratching. What about the regional seminaries, Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford and Thurles? Maybe lads there would have preferred to have taken a nice country girl to the pictures rather than pinch bottoms wrapped in black serge?

    ReplyDelete
  22. I was in Waterford 1973 - 1976. Was only aware of one actively gay guy there.

    Wexford was a famous hotbed of gay sex.

    Don't know about Carlow or Kilkenny.

    Thurles had a reputation and one seminarian was driven to suicide there through gay bullying. Actually hung himself there.

    Clonliffe 1970 - 1973 was rife with homosexuality.

    All Hallows?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AKA All Shallows. Now shut, of course. The Wing in Belfast was notorious too. That loudmouth dissident Dr Debra Snoddy, who wreaked havoc in Armagh, was parachuted out of All Hallows into Carlow College, the ex-seminary.

      Delete
  23. PS: The Irish College in Rome - many stories from recent past and some stories from present.

    767 recent visitors to this Blog from Italy.

    Most will be Rome and many from Irish College.

    I have had several emails in the past few days about The Irish College - some giving information/details and others issuing threats to any whistle blowers there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Was it not the case historically that the Irish College in Rome was reserved for brightsparks ? I thought the ordinary seminarian was left here in Ireland / Clonliffe and Maynooth etc? Seems now anyone is sent there to fill the rooms.

      Delete
    2. It's the UN College now. Only about 10 Irish seminarians there. They reduced the number of bedrooms a while back and fill the college with seminarians from around the world.

      Not for bright sparks nowadays. In the past all Irish College students enrolled at the Gregorian university, where the lectures are in Italian, and previously in Latin. No students can attend the Angelicum, where lectures are in English. Imagine going to Rome and studying in English? Many sems spend years in Rome and can barely speak Italian at the end of it.

      Delete
    3. In my time in Maynooth it was the Rome sems who were the gayest of all. The maynooth cohort were girly but not as much as the Romans.

      Delete
    4. The English College Rome was the gayest of all, especially in Cormac's time. It was heavenly.

      Salford PP.

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    5. One night in the Roost pub in Maynooth a group of seminarians got kicked out for girlish squealing. Most of them were drinking girly drinks such as Malibu, and Baileys.

      Delete
    6. 14:00, I just love the opening chapter of your fictional book. hope its successful.

      Delete
    7. I was there and saw it with my own eyes. It happened in 1987 or 1988.

      Delete
    8. The barman who threw them out said, "drink up, you're getting no more, sorry lads but this is a couples' pub and you're bringing attention to yourselves". Tom Marsh and Paddy Hannon witnessed it too. Both Tom and Paddy had rooms in Stoyte House cos it was a shorter walk to the Roost.

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    9. The day Geraldine Cremin was ordained the seminarians were also thrown out... staff took acception to people praying the words of consecration over their alcohol and main courses. The college reaction, well I heard the staff describe it as "blowing off steam with the relief thst they made it".

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    10. It took a lot to make the Roost staff angry, but seminarians praying the Institution Narrative in the pub did not go down well.

      Delete
  24. Maynooth - then and now = same difference.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I was at The Irish College in Rome. Had my underpants stolen, got love notes under my door and received midnight calls. Saw colleagues visiting gay bars and saunas and picking guys up at the Termini train station for sex in alleyways. Heard guys having sex in rooms. Saw guys looking at gay porn on computers. Told staff and a current Irish bishop about it. No action! All involved were ordained! Priest.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No need for CCTV when you're in Rome.

      Delete
    2. Who steals underpants? Seems a wee bit pervy. Not even ordinary gay stuff. And that's in a seminary?

      Delete
  26. I take it Michael Kelly of The Irish Catholic won't be covering these matters then.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The IC is just a megaphone for the bishops conference. Garbled shite is all the majority of its columnists write. Michael Kelly is bullshitter in Chief.

      Delete
    2. 13.32 : An ugly, ignorant comment. Shows where your brain is - up your a**e.

      Delete
    3. I think it's other things being up peoples' arses to that is causing such wow and humiliation in the church. I agree with 13:32 that the IC is a sychophantic symphony to those cowards of bishops.

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  27. In my diocese currently there are young priests having sex with each other, visiting gay pubs and saunas and pubs, cruising at truck stops and cruising areas and having sex with young male parishioners. Two senior priests have spoken to the bishop about it all. Nothing has happened. Leinster PP.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not to worry, they'll go to confession next morning.

      Delete
    2. Leinster P.P. at 12.00: Are you serious? Young priests having sex with male "parishioners"? It is unimaginable that this could be a reality in the age we live when people notice everything. Any priest who'd do this is utterly foolish, irresponsible and mad. But are you really a P.P. and are you really telling the truth???

      Delete
  28. In the past, I imagine “a calling” would just constitute a get-out clause for marriage for many of the older Mo’s. But the gay culture at Maynooth is not healthy one for the younger ones. Sounds like many of them would be happier employed as flying mattresses with budget airlines.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well that us a very direct reference to a former seminarian who used to be actively gay in Maynooth aboit 10 years ago... i used be surprised he was left there for 4 years. Not I'm surprised he wasnt ordained.

      Delete
    2. 23.49, correction 'now' rather than 'not'

      Delete
  29. Al Porter Irish Times. 01.12.2016.

    When did he lose his faith? “I went over to World Youth Day in Madrid. And I smoked weed for the first time and I was drinking and I was really attracted to this young priest who was there. And there were other people on the pilgrimage who were shaking and crying and saying they had experienced something divine. I felt nothing. It was really overcrowded, and Pope Benedict was quite underwhelming, and I remember thinking, ‘Everything I’ve been talking about that’s divine is really human.’

    “And then I ended up having a night of booze and weed and sleeping with that priest. We had wild, euphoric, wonderful sex, and I went, ‘You know what? [Being a priest] is not for me.’”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I bet Al made the first aporoach from what we know now as emerging in newspapers. So, place responsibilities where they lie - not all with the cleric, if the assertion is true - but also with the said comedian! Church institutions like seminaries, unfortunately, with such huge numbers of men, and without proper human formation, were places where any repression broke through and led men to seek intimacy, comfort and affirmatiin of some kind. Many escaped as good, healthy, human beings - emotionally and spiritually. Others fell apart, sadly. I hope they find healing. But the past in many ways was a horribly oppressiive and repressive place. Despite all I've observed, I belong to the Catholic Church and enjoy my positive experiences with all whom I encounter.

      Delete
    2. Your presumption is purely that: presumption. The Irish priesthood is currently experiencing its lowest trough. Maynooth has been and is the major source of the putrefaction and proliferation of filth. This clerical disease will continue to emasculate and reduce the Irish church to near nothingness unless Maynooth is shut down for once and for all.

      Delete
    3. 13.37: I went through seminary when it was full and not once in my 7 years did I ever witness any untoward or unacceptable sexual approaches or behaviour. That isn't to say it never happened. Yes, I was aware of our highly charged all male environment which brought out other macho elements at times. Some individuals behaved a little weird but not in a sinister way. Boundaries between older and younger students were always enforced. At times you sensed sexual repression. If I have a criticism of my years, it is that we didn't have sufficient psychological supports, seminars, lectures or contemporary insights into human growth for the life we were undertaking. Because of family support, my friends and good, wise spiritual advisers and some lecturers who inspired, I felt I had a good 7 years experience. However, the real learning comes when you truly beging to engage with people in parish life in the varied situations of their lives. The true learning for me continues to come from my interaction with people. The seminary style approach is no longer suitable or adequate for the few who choose to become priests. An awareness of our humanity at every level - emotionally, sexually, intelectually, spirutually - has to be an integral part of the way of preparing for and living priesthood. Apart from this necessity, prayer, scripture reading and good, human, nourishing relationships are essential to living a fruitful ministry. Very often the living of priesthood is done with much inner brokenness, questions, doubts and uncertainty. That is why,because of the awful crimes of sexual abuse carried out by priests, I am acutely aware of my boundaries with people and always try to treat everyone with respect, dignity and kindness. The families I meet every day in their daily challenges, sacrifices, hard work and difficulties, are the ones who keep me "grounded" and "real".

      Delete
  30. Prolific commentator and scribbler Fr Joe McDonald was in Maynooth in 2003 and after - keeps well quiet about 'strange goings in' during his Re-Formation from Christian Brother to Diocesan Priest.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did he not say in a recent interview that he was a bisexual and falls in love twice a year?

      Delete
    2. Fr Joe MC is just another confused product of maynooth and a company man through and through.

      Delete
    3. Yes, in an Indo article. There must be some desperate people in Ballyfermot. Joe McDonald ignored the strange goings on in Maynooth. The first was his towering ambition (he denounces clericalism, despite deciding being a Brother wasn't good enough and becoming a priest was much more up his aisle). His second priority was finding out what was on the menu in Pugin hall. He is blessed with a healthy appetite, though like many larger people he liked to wash down his repasts with Diet Coke.

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    4. I meant to say his first priority was his towering ambition. My bad.

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    5. I watched that Fr Joe McDonald on the Late Late and cringed the whole way through his interview with that snake Tubridy. Something about that J McD just doesn’t add up. He comes across as a “crowd pleaser” and self-serving before all else. And that’s the least of my disquiet about him.

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    6. Ya, Big Joe is just a people pleaser and says all the sickly sweet things the media love to hear. Fr Joe is the typical Maynooth drone. Stuff you hear from him you could read in any self help book. A pint of milk has more spirituality.

      Delete
    7. Any priest who's loved by the Irish Times (Darcy, McVarry, Big Mac, the two Reds, the Moaning Minnie from Killala) are "itchy ears" priests. http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/4-3.htm

      Delete
  31. I didn't know that, Pat, it makes me question even more why he has remained dumb about the many claims of sexual bullying in the 7 years he dreamed in Gaynooth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joe Mc is no oil painting and did not elicit the advances of the mafia. To be blunt he was too old and fat. Gaynooth was a totally different experience for Big Mac than for some of the in shape young fellas who caught the eyes of the boyos.

      Delete
  32. The stuff you write, how do you think of it?
    Rubbish!
    Your in line for the Nobel prize for Literature, surely!

    ReplyDelete
  33. +Pat do you use the Roman Missal in the Oratory ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes. The old one. Not the recent revision.

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    2. Thank you +Pat. I see Pope Francis changed the Canon Law regarding translations or “adaptations” I wonder if it will revert to the old one as not many people were happy when it was revised and introduced on First Sunday of Advent 2011.

      Delete
    3. Pat's a Traditionalist when it comes to the vernacular Missal.

      Delete
    4. He prefers the lame ICEL translation to the proper, current one, so he's a Traditionalist. Same with Merc-driving Fr Brian Darcy CP, the supposedly silenced CP who's never off the media. In the Graan he made a point of using the ICEL Missal.

      Delete
    5. It's not about tradition.

      It's about using a translation that is people and pastorally focused rather than a translation that gets lost in translations and theologically focused.

      My favourite is Eucharistic Prayer IV which recounts the history of God's relationship with men and women.

      Delete
  34. New revelations of funny goings on at Caldy Island

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-42121382

    ReplyDelete
  35. There seems to be a sudden number of PP's posting outlandish comments on the blog, Dublin PP yesterday, Leinster PP today and now a Salford PP. I wonder? Hmmm

    ReplyDelete
  36. Pat, great article and as usual Maynooth generates a lot of traffic whenever you post about it.

    Just one quibble though. The photo you tend to use is of St Patrick's House, which is just one of eight or nine residential buildings (depending on whether you count Stoyte separately from Long Corridor) which were built to accommodate seminarians. They now have retreated to part of just one building.

    For those who have not been there maybe you should use an aerial photo of it to show that such a vast seminary, once the biggest in the world, now has around 30 seminarians occupying a fraction of the space?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The rest of the space is used by the vast administrative staff of Maynooth University and the Pontifical University, accomodation for guests and students, trocaire, The history department, Maths department, Music department, econonmics and law department, Student records, liturgy center, Theology department, Theology lecture halls, common rooms, dining areas, meeting rooms, conference rooms, catering, sports facilities, chapels, etc

      In fact, given the increase in numbers of Lay students on the vast campus (MASSIVE increase this year its reported), there is urgent need for more space. Seminarian numbers dramatically down for Maynooth but lay numbers doubled. Signs of the times I guess.

      Delete
    2. don't forget us in the Geography department and the National Science Museum is on campus also. The seminarians wing is quite big actually. it encompasses all of St Mary's. but regarding numbers its a case of quality over quantity. I know a number of seminarians there from going to the 12pm mass and the Thursday evening mass. They are very fine men who have gone against the cultural tide and are open to hearing God's call. I pray for them all daily.

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    3. None of those buildings were made for that purpose. Student records/registration office occupies the former Junior Oratory where Mass was celebrated and the Divine Office was sung for nearly 200 years. Is that progress?

      Delete
    4. Until 1966 the seminarians didn't have a "wing". They occupied Long Corridor and all of the following buildings: Rhetoric, Logic, New House, Stoyte, Junior Infirmary, Riverstown Lodge, Humanity, St Patrick's, St Mary's. Dunboyne was where the postgraduate priest students lived.

      Delete
  37. I suspect that quite a few PPs and CCs read this blog. I'm an ex-seminarian in Maynooth and on Facebook messenger some of my ordained classmates tell me they read it but don't comment, either because they don't want to or are afraid of being reprimanded by their bishop.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This blog is read avidly in Maynooth and in The Irish College. Seminarian.

      Delete
    2. As an Irish journalist I know this Blog is read by Irish and UK bishops and by people you would not expect in Rome. If you want to send them a message publish it here :-)

      Delete
    3. Read by the people afraid that their name will appear.

      Delete
  38. There is something about that Sunday Mirror article that doesn't ring true.
    "There were students sleeping with women as well. Why else would seminarians be carrying condoms?"

    This guy was in his late 20's and it was 2003, so he was in Maynooth during the late 90's. AIDS was well recognised by then - and the use of condoms by gay men was much advised. Could someone really be that naive?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because they didn't self-identity as gay men, probably said they were exploring, and were virgins and assumed their partners were too. Also, despite what you might think, a lot of gay sex does not need a condom, if you know what I mean, especially among those new to it. I'm trying not to be crude but it's not just one activity.

      Delete
  39. Pat what is going on (excuse the now infamous term) in Maynooth currently? Have your sources any information amidst the apparent lockdown?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Strange goings on" should be a thesaurus entry.

      Delete
    2. For example, 'Maynooth seminary is a den of poovery'.

      Delete
  40. Irish Journalist at 18.47 I suppose they tell you do they that they read the blog.

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  41. When blogging about such an emotive subject as this, extra care must be taken to avoid giving the impression that 'gay' is synonymous with 'gay cabal'. It is precisely this kind of carelessness that helps feed homophobia, along with injustice and discrimination against LGBT people in general.

    ReplyDelete
  42. 19.07 Aids is a very antiquated term and ignorant. The world has moved on, I think the term you mean is HIV. Very very few people die of Aids anymore because of the advanced treatment.
    Belfast Pharmacist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. isn't HIV the stage before AIDS? forgive my ignorance pharmacist

      Delete
    2. Read the post - it related to the understanding in 90's About the condom advice then - not now.

      Delete
  43. Pat you better believe that this blog is read by bishops. I know for fact that in my diocese the powers that be all had the pencils out trying to work out from a posting who the contributor was after a less than flattering piece about how the diocese was or wasn’t being run. I pissed myself laughing. You should have seen it. The VG, Chancellor and a few canons all being sleuths

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, I suppose it makes a change from them being sluts.

      Delete
    2. Would that be Clogher diocese, by any chance? Lol

      Delete
  44. HIV is no longer "the stage before AIDS.
    HIV means that your blood shows that you have come in contact with the HIV virus through sex, blood transfusion or drug taking. It is a marker of a viral contact, not an illness. AIDS is when the HIV virus makes your blood cell I'll and is a syndrome. Modern retroviral drugs mean that the vast majority of people treated never progress to AIDS. I am now treating people with HIV in their 80s plus. The whole HIV world has been transformed.Medic.

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  45. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EncKt_qfrXk

    Whose this I wonder

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  46. That’s the Belvedere Boy. He began with the Jesuit’s before entering formation for the Diocesan Priesthood. Surprising. He is an intellectual.

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