Sunday 2 September 2018

THE SEAL OF CONFESSION AND CIVIL LAW



In a formal response Australia's bishops and religious said the seal made children more safe, not less


Australia’s Catholic bishops and religious orders, responding to recommendations from the Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, have accepted 98 per cent of its suggestions, but have said they could not accept recommendations that would violate the Seal of Confession.
“We are committed to the safeguarding of children and vulnerable people while maintaining the seal. We do not see safeguarding and the seal as mutually exclusive,” said the preamble to a response to dozens of recommendations concerning child safety, formation of priest and religious workers, training in child safety and even out-of-home care service providers.
The response, published on August 31, came eight-and-a-half months after the Royal Commission released its 17-volume report on child sexual abuse. The report was based on five years of hearings, nearly 26,000 emails, and more than 42,000 phone calls from concerned Australians. In February 2017, Australian Church leaders spent three weeks testifying before the commission.
The Royal Commission recommended that the bishops consult with the Holy See to clarify whether “information received from a child during the sacrament of reconciliation that they have been sexually abused is covered by the seal of confession” and whether “if a person confesses during the sacrament of reconciliation to perpetrating child sexual abuse, absolution can and should be withheld until they report themselves to civil authorities.”
The commission also recommended that confession “only be conducted in an open space within the clear line of sight of another adult.”
The response from the bishops and religious said dioceses would examine confessional spaces and practices. It said confessions of groups of children were normally conducted in the open and that the Catholic Professional Standards Limited it had established was developing standards and protocols.
“However, the ‘seal of confession’ is inviolable for the priest confessor,” it said.
“Children will be less rather than more safe if mandatory reporting of confessions were required: the rare instance where a perpetrator or victim might have raised this in confession would be less likely to occur if confidence in the sacramental seal were undermined; and so an opportunity would be lost to encourage a perpetrator to self-report to civil authorities or victims to seek safety,” said the response.
“Mandatory reporting of confessions would also be a violation of freedom of religious belief and worship,” it added.
The bishops and religious noted that they had marked a few recommendations “For further consideration,” and about a dozen that mentioned the Holy See had been noted to the Vatican. In October, leaders of the Australian Catholic Bishops’ Conference and the chair of the Church’s Truth, Justice and Healing Council met Vatican officials to discuss issues emerging from the royal commission investigations.
For instance, the Royal Commission said the bishops should urge the Vatican to change canon law so that “the pontifical secret” – the confidentiality surrounding a canonical investigation and process – “does not apply to any aspect of allegations or canonical disciplinary processes relating to child sexual abuse.” The response said the bishops had sought canonical advice and consulted with the Holy See, but noted that the pontifical secret “does not in any way inhibit a bishop or religious leader from reporting instances of child sexual abuse to civil authorities.”
The Royal Commission asked that the bishops urge the Vatican to eliminate the “imputability test” of canon law when dealing with cases of clerical sexual abuse. The imputability test basically means that a person’s level of guilt for a crime is lessened to the degree that he or she was not aware that the action was wrong; if the imputability is diminished, canon law would recommend a lesser penalty for the guilty.
In response to a recommendation that the bishops work with the Vatican to amend canon law to remove the time limit for commencement of canonical actions relating to child sexual abuse, the bishops said this was already the practice in Australia. According to rules issued in 2003, the statute of limitation is 20 years after the victim reaches the age of 18; however, Church law also says that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith can set aside that limit.
Several recommendations from the Royal Commission concerned celibacy. The response said the bishops noted “that the Royal Commission made no finding of a causal connection between celibacy and child sexual abuse; that voluntary celibacy is a long-etablished and positive practice of the Church in both East and West, particularly for bishops and religious life; and that inadequate initial and continuing formation of priests and religious for celibate living may have contributed to a heightened risk of child sexual abuse, but not celibacy as a state of life in and of itself.”
In March, Pope Francis authorised an Australian plenary council, a meeting in which decisions become binding on the Church in the country. The bishops said it was time to look at where the Church in Australia was headed.
PAT SAYS:
Personally, I am delighted that the Australian government agencies are taking on the Roman Catholic Church - especially in matters of abuse and abuse cover-up.
To us Catholics - RC and others, the seal of confession has been very important.
We regard it as the place that people can go to, in a sacrament, to confess their sins and receive God's forgiveness.
However, nobody, including churches and religions can be above the law.
If the law says that it is mandatory on everyone to report abuse then nobody or no church and religion can seek to be above that law.
The way around it would be to put a sign up outside each confessional which says:
DUE TO THE LAW OF MANDATORY REPORTING IN THIS CIVIL JURISDICTION THE PRIEST WILL BE OBLIGED TO REPORT TO THE CIVIL AUTHORITIES ANY CRIMES CONFESSED RELATING TO THE ABUSE OF MINORS AND THE COVERING UP OF SUCH CRIMES. SPIRITUALLY WE REGRET THIS GREATLY BUT WE ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW.

In any event, any sinner who is sincerely for any sin they have committed can kneel by their bed and ask and receive God's immediate forgiveness.




Auricular Confession: A Late Invention
Question: Since it was Jesus who established the sacrament of Penance, why is it that Protestants do not confess their sins to a priest?
Answer: Confession to a priest is not a biblical practice; it is not even a custom of the early church.
Our Lord taught us to confess our sins directly to God the Father. He told us to pray, "Our Father in heaven...forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us." Reading the New Testament we do not find a single instance of the apostles hearing private confession; nor do we find the disciples confessing to a priest.
There was no auricular confession to a priest in the early church either. Augustine gives us a snapshot of the church in the 4th and 5th century. In his Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed, Augustine writes:
“When ye have been baptized, hold fast a good life in the commandments of God, that ye may guard your Baptism even unto the end. I do not tell you that ye will live here without sin; but they are venial, without which this life is not. For the sake of all sins was Baptism provided; for the sake of light sins, without which we cannot be, was prayer provided. What hath the Prayer? "Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors." Once for all we have washing in Baptism, every day we have washing in prayer. Only, do not commit those things for which ye must needs be separated from Christ's body: which be far from you! For those whom ye have seen doing penance, have committed heinous things, either adulteries or some enormous crimes: for these they do penance. Because if theirs had been light sins, to blot out these daily prayer would suffice.”
How did Christians deal with sin at that time? They dealt severely with those who committed grievous sins, casting them out of the church. A period of "penance" was required before the repentant sinner was re-admitted. But what about the daily sins that all Christians commit? Did they confess them to a priest? No, they confessed directly to God in prayer, asking the Father for forgiveness. Prayer was considered sufficient for daily cleaning.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church admits that private confession first came on the scene in the seventh century:
“Over the centuries the concrete form in which the Church has exercised this power received from the Lord has varied considerably. During the first centuries the reconciliation of Christians who had committed particularly grave sins after their Baptism (for example, idolatry, murder, or adultery) was tied to a very rigorous discipline, according to which penitents had to do public penance for their sins, often for years, before receiving reconciliation. To this ‘order of penitents’ (which concerned only certain grave sins), one was only rarely admitted and in certain regions only once in a lifetime. During the seventh century Irish missionaries, inspired by the Eastern monastic tradition, took to continental Europe the ‘private’ practice of penance, which does not require public and prolonged completion of penitential works before reconciliation with the Church. From that time on, the sacrament has been performed in secret between penitent and priest. This new practice envisioned the possibility of repetition and so opened the way to a regular frequenting of this sacrament. It allowed the forgiveness of grave sins and venial sins to be integrated into one sacramental celebration. In its main lines this is the form of penance that the Church has practiced down to our day” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1447).
So, private confession was introduced a full seven centuries after Christ and His apostles. Ironically the Roman Church curses us if we dare assert the plain historical fact that secret confession to a priest was not observed from the beginning:
“If anyone denies that the sacramental confession was instituted, and is necessary for salvation, by divine Law; or says that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Catholic Church has always observed from the beginning and still observes, is at variance with the institution and command of Christ and is a human invention, anathema sit” (Council of Trent, Session 14, Canon 6).
Friend, I urge you to disregard Rome’s vain threats; you cannot deny the truth. If you want to follow the teaching of the Bible, and the practice of the early church, stop once and for all going to private confession to a priest. Pray to God. He knows your heart and He hears your prayers. He will certainly forgive you if you repent and believe in His Son, Jesus Christ.

Copyright Dr Joe Mizzi. 




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Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the malice and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.



122 comments:

  1. Pat, you reveal a very sinister darkness in your psyche by the prayer you post under photo of new Bishop of Meath. I believe the prayer should be prayed by you for your own purification and spiritual healing. Were your photo to replace that of Bishop Deenihan, it would certainly be an appropriate prayer. You are not beyond Satan's presence!!

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  2. That prayer to St Michael, the Archangel used to be regularly said at the conclusion of the every Mass in the 1950s . We heard it so frequently that we all knew it by heart. I have no idea when the practice of its recitation ceased.

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    1. Anonymous at 00:21

      The prayer to St Michael ceased after Vat.II when like the rest of the liturgy we ended up with the disaster we have now! Yesterday's consecration in Mullengar was a perfect example you could have been at play in the Abbey Theater with all the rounds of applause, so undignified and unrecognizable to the former Rite of Consecration of a Bishop.

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    2. (From poster @ 00.21)
      Thanks for your response.. Also re/"rounds of applause" and complete lack of dignity etc . I thoroughly agree with you on every point you made.

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    3. Magna Carta's Mum3 September 2018 at 12:41

      Magna darling, do you remember how you could say that prayer from memory in Latin? You were even more impressed after your first High Mass on our holiday to Le Touquet. You came back and told our parish priest you wanted to be a subdeacon and for months afterwards you sang 'Domine, salvam fac Galliam' to yourself.

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    4. Mad Magnas Mammy at 12:41

      I think your memory has gone, The Leonine Prayers were only said after Low Mass. The Domine salvam fac, is the prayer sung after High Mass for the Monarch or Head of State, perhaps even then she thought she was Queen. Eviva Maria!

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    5. Magna Carta's Mum3 September 2018 at 14:03

      Magna darling, Bellarmine isn't very good at paying attention is she? We not only know when the prayers for the conversion of Russia we're said, we remember them, don't we darling?

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    6. Barking B., how can you describe current liturgy, including the Order of Mass, as a 'disaster'? Jesus is Jesus, and he is truly present in ALL liturgical service. ('Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I...'?)

      What the hell is wrong with you people, with this obessive interest in liturgical form and formality?!

      You remind me of a Pharisee, a 'control-freak', from my early childhood. The trouble ('according to my da'😉) occurred one Sunday during Mass. I was probably three or four years of age when this self-appointed, liturigical monitor poked me in the back for not kneeling quickly enough (in his opinion) at the consecration. I don't remember the incident, but daddy told me years later that I was poked so hard, he turned round and angrily told the busybody to 'Fuck off!'

      If you, and that busybody, had focused on what was truly and miracuously happening during the services you each attended, you would not have had time to bother with other things.

      Neither of you would know the value of Mass, because neither if you would have eyes to see.

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    7. Mad Magnas Mammy at 14:03

      Wrong again Mammy,I always pay attention so that I can correct you. I said those prayers daily after Holy Mass until they were suppessed on the 6th of March 1965 I still say them. Eviva Maria!

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    8. Mommie Dearest at 12:41, I do indeed recall those times! The bells and smells of the ecclesial baroque. God wasn't in Heaven; he was in Gounod's glorious composition, especially that heavily nationalistic one.

      And yes, Domine, salvam fac Galliam: I did render it...after a fashion...until you kindly reminded me that it couldn't be sung properly solo, but was composed as a choral work. That was when I bribed with sweets my younger cousins to join me; but you screamed at us to stop 'that abominable caterwauling'. Do you recall the tears that streaked my little face, then? You were always so impatient and dishevelled after one too many mummies-little-helpers.

      I never liked that parish priest.

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    9. Mommie Dearest at 14:03, no, she isn't good at paying attention...except to her own, strange little world.

      She's too afraid to live in the present; it's why she's always going on about the past.

      God love 'er.😆

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    10. Ma Magna at 17:58

      O poor Polly, you poor soul was it seeing your Mammy having one too many of Mammy's little helpers that turned you to the Drink, she has a lot to answer for. I'm sure the P.P. felt the same about you. But never mind they were indeed wonderful times liturgically. Love and prayers B. Eviva Maria!

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    11. Mad Magna at 17:28

      Poor Polly youv'e just reveled that you had the parents from Hell, your Mammy starting you on the drink and your Da's foul language during The Holy Sacrifice of The Mass (sacrilege) explains a lot and tells us all how you have turned out so nasty. I can't understand why people like you object to those who prefer liturgical form we have as much right to worship as we like and not have to put up with all you happy clappy types which I hate and thanks be to God I don't have to. Love nd prayers B. Eviva Maria!

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    12. And it doesn't matter to you, Barking B., that a grown man physically assaulted a small child, during Mass? Wasn't this more of a sacrilege?

      What was it Jesus said of people like you? Straining a gnat and swallowing a camel?

      Yes, stupid people, like the jackass my dad silenced that day...for good. 😆

      Why do you bother praying?😕 (DO you bother praying?😞)

      Your prayers aren't being heard, I assure you.

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    13. Mad Magna at 20:01

      As far as I'm concerned he did't hit you hard enough I'll bet you were a right BOLD BRAT. And as for you're Da he was a right Bollox altogether. You know that I say the Memorare every day for you I've assured you that Almighty God and His Holy Mother hear all our
      prayers..Love and prayers. B. Eviva Maria!

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    14. Magna Carta's Mum3 September 2018 at 22:24

      Actually, Magna darling, that particular telling off was because you kept stealing things from the kitchen to 'do' High Mass with your friends. For months after that holiday I couldn't find any saucer. It was my own fault, really, for telling you the subdeacon hid the paten from the priest in the humeral veil. And my towels, you used to use them like a humeral veil. I will never forget the sight of you doing Benediction with a towel draped over your shoulders with the words 'Grand Hotel' on it!
      But darling, do, please come away from that strange Bellarmine person. Most peculiar, and ending those rants with 'love and prayers'! Definitely not our sort of person, dear.

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    15. WARNING! WARNING! Old, fossilised troll alert at 21:11!😆

      Yes, they certainly hear our prayers, but they don't take any heed of yours, you queen of Pharisees.😅

      Viva Espania, you absolute troll and nutjob!😠

      Shan't be answerin' any more of your mindless posts, you total tit!😲 (Unless you post again under 'Anonymously', you snake-in-the-grass, daughter of the Serpent!)

      Pope Pius XII was an effeminate bum-bandit, like so many of the pre-Vatican II types you pant after, you fruitcake!

      You're more 'bonkers' than I am, you incurable cretin!😨

      At least, I'm drop-dead gorgeous!😎💓

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    16. Yes, dearest. Mommie really does knows best.

      No, she's not 'our sort of person'; she's...well...strange.

      And we don't 'do' strange, do we?😆

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    17. Mad Magna at22:26

      WARNING! WARNING! AULD DRUNKEN TROLL ALERT!

      Thanks Polly you're really on the vitriol tonight I'm beginning to think you don't love me any more, after that tirade of abuse. Was it something I said? I think its time you checked in to the Betty Forde again you seen to have gone completely Ga! Ga! God help you I will still pray for you. Can I suggest a wee visit to the opticians I heard you were as UGLY AS QUASI MODO Esmerelda was seen flinging herself into the Seine when she saw you. Love and prayers B. Eviva Maria!

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  3. Well, looking back on the recording of the ordination of the new roman Bishop of Meath, the mandatory order for clergy to attend was taken seriously, as it seems the sanctuary and main seats was packed with priests and bishops.

    I watched through it, skipping through a lot of the tedious bits, like the never ending rounds of applause. Is this an ordination of a bishop or a television talk show?

    Cardinal Brady was present, and of course he is the elephant in the room. Dressed to impress in red, the cardinal was ordered to say nothing and try and smile. How the victims of Brendan Smyth feel when they see that scumbag at these ceremonies? The man has no shame, and is so obvious an atheist. If he believed in a God, he would be terrified of his actions (or lack of).

    There seemed to be a bit of a traffic problem at the end of the Mass, where for a few minutes we had a queue of Bishops, standing around in the aisle looking useless as ever.

    The speech given by their new Bishop Dick Cheney ... sorry Tom Deenihan was about as warm as Hall's ice cream, layered with "thank yous" which came across as being forced to say rather than actual true feelings.

    It was nice to see the presence of the Church of Ireland and other protestant churches there. Noted that Bishop Pat Storey of Meath and Kildare, the first Church of Ireland female Bishop decided to not attend, apparently she had a prior engagement ... no doubt an invitation to any other event on that day was acceptable to Pat, as she would have found it hard to stomach the male packed sanctuary for three hours. Who can blame her, no doubt the Catholic church knew she would decline, and were happy she did not attend. Imagine a woman in a Bishop's vestments!

    So the roman church has another scumbag dirtball as Bishop. Looking at the service, the total lack of warmth from the other bishops to him was so apparent. I have been to ordinations, both catholic and protestant, and there is usually a sense of joy. This seemed like a service that had to be done and dusted. All words, no emotion.

    So, the Diocese of Meath has a new leader. I wonder how long he will last here? A few years at most before being transferred to Rome as Pope Frank (or who ever it is in a few years time) private secretary, given the task of cleaning up the huge amount of shit created by their church?

    Pray for the Diocese of Meath, they are going to need your prayers with this sergant major in charge of them. If his actions are the same as his in Cork, I can see a further drift away from the faith by especially the young in Meath over the next year.

    Why can't the catholic church chose a man who is warm, kind, full of faith, full of integrity, full of joy, hope and honesty? Is there any clergy left in that church that has these qualities, even one of them?

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    1. 00.34: Do you feel good after unkoading this piece of venom? You surpass yourself with a sinister interpretation of events. I'm wondering if you have joined the bandwagon of present day critics who look for any human flaw, failing, misdeameanour simply to "down" someone for whom you have hatred. Wondering too if all you possess by way of insight is what you receive through gossip, hearsay and spiteful analysis from this blog? There are many men in the Church who presently possess kindness, warmth, integrity and deep faith. If you want to find them, you'll find them. Just get rid of your bigotry, prejudice and hatred.

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    2. I logged on near the end and saw a four-eyed fairy queen faffing about in the background trying to shift the logjam of pulpit pooves.

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    3. @ 9.50
      Could you please explain to us very clearly what you mean by "four-eyed" in the context in which you used the term here today?

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  4. What was going on in Mullingar yesterday with Deenihan and the co consecrated signing a document on the altar under the nuncios instruction? This has no place in the rite of ordination. And no explanation was given, was it?

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  5. Is the nuncio saying, you guys are taking responsibility here in public on the altar of this cathedral for what you have just done? And this document is going back to Rome.

    Maybe this always happens, but never in public on the altar during the liturgy! This nuncio is interesting!

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    1. It has never been done before the signing of the document looked like a good few pages and all taken by the Papal Nuncio and Archbishop Eamon Martin had to co sign it.

      Papal Nuncio is no fool he is going through all the other vacant diocese and he finds it hard how Ireland need so many Bishops.

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    2. And, of course, all bishops can be removed from office for a serious reason.

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  6. Why are Roman (and other) Catholics, in the 21st century, nit-picking about confessing to a Roman (or other) Catholic priest?

    There is only ONE, so-called 'priest', Jesus. (And he NEVER ONCE referred to himself as a 'priest'.)

    Confess to Jesus, and to Jesus alone. For he alone can forgive sin, not some cunt in a collar. 😆

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    1. Mad Magna at 02:04

      Polly, once again your language is appalling and not necessary, read John 20:21-23: Jesus said them
      "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. And when he said this H breathed on them, and said to them. "Receive the Holy Spirit if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." I would advise you to go to Confession and make a good Act of Contrition. Love and prayers B. Eviva Maria!

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    2. Yes, Barking B., I'm familiar with those words, but they appear only in John's gospel, not in any of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke). This is not an irrelevant point.

      The Gospel of John was the last to be written and is the least historical of the canonical gospels, all of which, in addition to my previous point, suggests that the words quoted in your post at 10:39 were actually not spoken by Jesus at all, but are a kerygmatic addition by the author of John to make a purely pastoral point about ecclesial cohesion and its dependency on mutual forgiveness; they certainly are not an allusion to sacramental confession. I could express the author's point alternatively as 'if you fail to forgive one another, your sins shall remain, for I shall not forgive you.'

      This point is powerfully illustrated (interestingly, also only in John's gospel), by Jesus' response to the failure of the Pharisees to condemn the adulterous woman (after Jesus shamed them through revealing their sins) by himself refusing to condemn her.

      What, it seems to me, Roman Catholics in particular do not fully appreciate is that forgiveness of personal sin depends not primarily on expressing contrition (or even repentance), but on forgiving others. We are reminded of this in the Lord's Prayer: 'And forgive us our tresspasses, AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESSPASS AGAINST US'.

      The power to forgive sin lies in each and every one of us, not solely or sacramentally in a Roman Catholic priest. But this power is efficacious only in mutuality of expression, for its purpose is to heal and unite the Body of Christ on Earth: to make it one and indivisible through love, not through doctrine and dogma.

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    3. Mad Magna at 16:42

      Polly never mind your rhetoric. The words are in The Gospel of St. John, and were said by Our Lord. This power has been passed down by The Apostles and is confered at the Ordination to The Sacred Priesthood. We are so blessed as Catholics to have this wonderful Sacrament. Love and prayers B. Eviva Maria!

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    4. Tell me, then, Barking B. at 17:55. If I insincerely but convincingly confess to a Roman Catholic priest and he grants absolution, am I absolved? The affirmative is implied by your words: 'This power has been passed down by The Apostles (sic) and is confered (sic) at the Ordination to The Sacred Priesthood (sic).'

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    5. Md Magna at18:26

      I will tell you Barking Polly, if you confess insincerely the sacrament would not be valid. You could convince the priest but God will not be mocked. You will have committed a sacrilege.
      I see you're back to your Granny Grammar altar ego. Stop being such a pedantic BORE. Love and prayers B. Eviva Mria!

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    6. Barking B., checkmate!

      A-Hah! Hah! Hah!😅

      And you said these cunts in collars had the power to absolve sin.

      Your post at 18:26 proves what any intelligent person would have known all along...that these parasites have no such power. It is all a great, big, clericalist myth; self-lionisation by Roman Catholic priests.

      Thanks, Barking B. . You were of some use after all.😆

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    7. Mad magna at 20:07

      Barking Polly have you lost the plot of course priests have the power to absolve sins, what did you not understand about my explanation you cretin. I explained to you that you could fool the priest but that God will not be mocked. The priest acts as a judge in the place of Our Lord. If you make a sincere confession the priest will grant you absolution. However if you are not contrite and are committing a sacrilegious confession the sacrament would not be valid. I always try to be of use to you and correct you and bring you back to the bosom of Our Holy Mother The Church where I know deep down you long to be. Love and prayers B. Eviva Maria!

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    8. Barking B., the 'power to absolve sins' is not the priest's, because, as your recent post proves, he has not the power to exercise it according to his will.

      Ergo, it is not HIS power, but another's. (Duh😩)

      (Please, don't make an utter fool of yourself again, by posting yet another of your intellectually vacuous comments. I've trashed you already today. Isn't this enough? 😆)

      A-Hah! Hah! Hah! 😅

      Ahem 😆

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    9. Mad Magna at 20:47

      Barking Polly, the priests power to absolve sins comes from Our Blessed Lord.

      Ergo, his power comes from Almighty God. (Duh)

      The only person making a fool of themselves is you. You think you are so clever when you are not you think your the Queen of Academia but you are TRASH!

      The likes of you will never trash me, I'm so above you in every way so let that be enough!

      A-Hah! Hah! Hah! Hah! remember they who laugh last laughs longest.

      Ahem.

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    10. Wonderful, Bellarmine - thank you.

      I am, quite frankly, sick of Magna's false arguments, foul language, and emojis. MMM

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    11. Bishop Pat - I don't think that was me at 22:11. I'm not saying I disagree with the comment, but I really don't think it was I who wrote it. MMM

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  7. Surely the aame will apply to penitents who confess theft or homicide?

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  8. So the seal of confession would be broken in the case of abuse of children. What about a person who confessed to murder or crimes against the state? Does child abuse trump all other sins and if so, why should it get preeminence? Who defines the worse sin? Would anybody living in more totalitarian regimes than our own feel comfortable confessing to sins that might then be reported straight back to the authorities with full permission and backing of the Church?

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    1. It's not about sin, it's about crime.

      Generally speaking it's up to the police to detect crime.

      We are talking about child protection.

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  9. Did Deenihan abuse a boy in a Cork school?

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  10. So, if I came to you, Pat and confessed my sins, would there be any that you would then report to the authorities? If, for example, I abused children, would you report me? If I had raped a woman one drunken night? If I had beaten my wife or blackmailed a person? If I had murdered somebody or were a member of a paramilitary outfit which at that time, was engaged in acts of sabotage, terrorism or freedom fighting? Ultimately, could I trust you to bare my soul to or could i potentially end up in a police cell within the hour after confession with you?

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    1. PS You seem to be implying that a drunken rape is not as serious as a sober rape?

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    2. I'm afraid your words contradict your protestations!

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    3. But I wonder if, for example, I were to own up to the Omagh bombing and screwing a kid in confession with you, which one you might report me to the authorities for. Just hypothetical examples, of course. If I were a serial child abuser in the past, but am no longer, would you report me? If I had executed Brits and their collaborators in the struggle in the north, would you report me, whether these incidents happened in 1978 or 2018?

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  11. Did Xxxxxxxx abuse a boy in a Cork school?

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  12. Well Pat, is God above the law?
    Also, are you telling me that if I go to you in confession nothing is beyond the reach of the law now?

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    1. As a Christian I believe that God is above the law.

      In civil law God is not superior.

      I have always advised the paedopiles I have met to own up, get help and take responsibility.

      I have not broken the seal of confession.

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    2. But Pat, what do you mean by civil law? If you were to establish yourself and a congregation in the Philippines where your partner is from, surely would you not notice some stark differences between say UK and Irish justice systems and one controlled by the brute dictator and serial violator of human rights, Rodrigo Duterte? Would you respect the civil law of a state such as that? Would you encourage fellow priests and pastors, in your absence, to respect the civil laws of such a regime? Surely the obligation to report 'terrorism', which violates the rights of all, and not merely children, would fall within this very contradictory position you are promoting here.

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    3. You make valid points.

      There is a difference between a democracy like Australia and a questionable or rogue state.

      Incidentally I regard the Vatican as a rogue state.

      Morally we are not bound to obey anything that is against our informed conscience.

      That's the conflict.

      We stick with our conscience.

      The state imposes law.

      Would Jesus say the Confessional seal can be used to excuse the mandatory reporting of child abuse?

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    4. Come on Pat, I am asking reasonable questions and you are censoring me. Seriously why don't you answer and post?

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    5. Why have you not reported paedophiles you met in confession to the police or Gardaì Pat?

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    6. Who said I met paedophiles in confession?

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    7. Are you saying you never met a paedophile in confession? For that matter have you ever met anyone who broke the law and did not report it?

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    8. There is no mandatory reporting of Confession in the UK or Ireland?

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  13. I hear Fr. Tom Montgomery and his friends (about 3 in total) are not very happy with you and the blog Bishop Pat.

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    1. A report that you claim to have seen about Montitty apparently is made up by you and is a tisdue of lies.

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    2. Do you mean the September 2013 report signed by Father Richard Nesbitt?

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    3. Father Richard Nesbitt who is Vocations Director for Westminster? Was this before or after the spot of bother at the Beda? Yet Montgomery was ordained Deacon in Rome June 2015, and there is a nice photo of Father Michael Daley with him on that happy occasion in the Westminster Record for July 2015. We are told Enfield was not a success and in his cups he is horrid about his PP in Welwyn. Anybody know how he got on as Deacon in Ruislip? A stunning success, one hopes.

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    4. Montitty met with Father Nesbitt and the then Archbishop Vincent Nichols to review his progress in September 2013.

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    5. And what did they “discern”?

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    6. When he was in Ware in Herts for a placement Montitty certainly had a jolly old time. Drinking and eating defined his ministry there.

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    7. @09.34 Suddenly went quiet???

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    8. Some parishioners have become aware of the comments being made here about our assistant priest at Wewlyn Garden City, Fr Montgomery. I was told by a lady friend last night. Whilst we know Fr Tom likes to have a drink like most we were sorry to hear the extent of his problems as a recently ordained priest. I know he's going of with our PP to the Eucharist Congress in Liverpool for the next number of days. May he get tge help he needs.
      J from WGC

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    9. There is plenty of support inn place for recently ordained he will have a mentor usually for first three years.

      It will likely be that Father does not realise that he has a drink problem.

      maybe some of his parishioners could write or email the Archdiocesan offices were there will be support.

      The Parish Priest should be helping him.

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    10. I believe a retired chap in our parish of St B has already sent a letter to the diocese before about concerns but it wasn't acknowledged.

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    11. Do they have alehouses at a Eucharistic Congress these days?

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    12. 16:51 what had happened to cause concern to write a letter?

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    13. @10.44 No, Enfield was not a success for TM. He was broadcasting that his PP there (Cardinal Cormac's MC) had an 'older man' on the side. He's also known to have been indiscrete about his present PP also. The Beda Bitch with a motor mouth.

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    14. Most people know who the pathetic coward writing all this garbage is and what a sad life he has. Pitiful

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    15. If most people know who it is then why don't most people name that person? Sounds like you have a hidden agenda and I think most can work out your sour grapes @22.26

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  14. The Church has forfeited any right to moral authority or superiority in the matter of safeguarding children and other vulnerable people, by its history, by the egregious sins of abusing priests and others, and by the callous and self-serving coverups by bishops and those in authority in order to protect the reputation of the Church - all at the expense of the weakest and most vulnerable. And, they have done this for generations, and harmed generations of children and vulnerable people. The Church should hang its head in shame, and stop trying to push its weight about and claim exemption, independence of action, and the right to decide fore itself. It has lost all claim to that now.

    It is not for the Church in Australia to determine whether the seal of confession in these particular instances is to be preserved or not. They have lost the right to make this decision. It is for the Australian State and the law to decide, and I would expect them to make it mandatory to report in circumstances of abuse or coverup of minors, and to act on it when somebody does not do so with the full rigour of the law.

    The Church has proven itself incapable, unwilling and unworthy to have any say in this matter any more. The sooner the Church realises this the better. I know it, millions like me know it, and the Church needs to understand it. We do not listen to you anymore, dear Bishops and priests. We make up our own minds through prayer and at the prompting of the Holy Spirit. And, in this matter, we know that you are wrong and we are right.

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  15. Have a look at this balanced, thoughtful article from the National Catholic Reporter:

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/editorial-its-time-choose-painful-path-purification

    It talks about a way forward, all of which I agree. However, there is one thing that they fail to see; if a healthy church / clerical culture is to be established, and the unhealthy male dominated clerical culture of the past consigned to history, which all its overtones of power, privilege, being unassailable, then women need to be included in the life of the Church in roles as priests and bishops, and other leadership roles. I am absolutely sure that a female input and presence would lead us to something far more helahty and grounded.

    Remember, the men of the Church past, bishops and priests, have essentially forfeited the right to gainsay such developments. Look what happened when they were exclusively in charge !

    And, do spare me the faux theological arguments against female ordination, such as some ontological inferiority of women and superiority of men, such as the normative example of Jesus (which ignores the contextual of his time and place etc.). Those arguments don't cut the mustard and are just an attempt to block a healthy and integrated way forward for our Church - note, that I say OUR Church, because the male bishops and priests have lost all right to control and guide it any more.

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  16. The argument of there were "no women priests in Biblical times and so we need to keep to that" does not hold water. It never did .As everyone knows, it would not have been socially acceptable or the norm for a female to have held a post like that in those times but we have to remember that this prohibition on women extended through many professions during those times and for many centuries and in many cultures afterwards. Women couldn't be lawyers, medical doctors, engineers architects.police.. The list goes on and on.. They couldn't be MPs or even vote on who they wanted as an MP (Some historian blog reader can tell us when the women actually got the vote!) . Even up to the 1950s it was unusual to see a female GP in a doctor's surgery as the number of female candidates was so restricted in university. These prejudices were lifted and eased very gradually and reluctantly and often with great struggle and strong opposition. (There are pockets of life where their shadow still lurks) But life moves on and people now should have a more enlightened outlook . Jesus chose his male apostles entirely in keeping with the customs and norms of the times and society in which He lived..I think if He had to choose again today, He would respect present day struggle towards fairness and would react accordingly .

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    Replies
    1. Anon @ 11:56: You rightly point out increasing sexual equality in recent generations. The time frame for this growth is but a blink in the eye of human development from our former primitive hunter gatherer origins. In that epoch and until a few generations ago males took key leading roles by reason of the superior physical strength requirement and women's demanding child rearing responsibilities. Technolological innovation has increasingly catalysed change towards more balanced roles and lifestyles. Setting aside any debate on the identity of Christ, God and/or man, it's a very fair point that those chosen to promote Christ's teaching should not bar females simply on account of the prevailing customs and expectations of 2000 years ago. It is however only to be expected that many 'traditionalists ' and those of narrow perspective will offer many justifications for maintaining male exclusivity. MMM

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    2. Thank you MMM for your interesting response to my post @ 11.56

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    3. You are so, so welcome, Anon@ 14.31. So welcome indeed. MMM

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    4. 11.56 Any one ‘sent’ to preach was an apostle. One had to be a disciple first. There were plenty of female disciples. And apostles.

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  17. No adult man, a stranger , should be granted the right to hold a private conversation , by law, with a child; Confession. It should be an offense for parent/ parents/ guardian/ guardians to allow this.

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    1. So Billy boy, have you reported confessional penitents to the Gardaì for breaking the law?

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    2. I agree with Fr Bill. Is it right that the age for first confession used to be higher but it fell after St Pius X encouraged children to receive Holy Communion at a younger age?

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    3. What if the child is sick, injured, lost, afraid, under threat of danger?
      It is not a crime not to report a crime. Under the Australian proposal, this remains the case, except if the crime is one of sexual abuse and is disclosed in Confession. That is illogical. If civil law changed to require the mandatory reporting of all crimes, and the mandatory reporting of all allegations of crime, then this should apply to admissions or alleged admissions made in Confession. However it would achieve nothing for the following reasons: (a) penitents would not confess to sins that were also relevant crimes; (b) penitents confess anonymously - priests would need to conduct identity checks (like banks) prior to hearing a Confession, for example, requiring a certified copy of passport/driving licence, photographs, and two utility bills - is the average Confessional box set up to handle this paperwork? (c) confessions such as those made in police stations can be retracted or withdrawn by reason of the person who made the confession being under mental or physical duress or being mentally unbalanced or drunk or drugged. So confessions made in Confession could similarly be retracted unless it is proposed to introduce a sobriety or mental fitness test before a penitent is permitted to unburden himself. As regards Confessions made by children, it would be appropriate to license priests to hear children's Confessions. Such priests would require additional training, referencing, and certification in addition to the tests that apply to those who work with children such as CRB and DBS checking.
      Regarding the status of priest, there is surely no objection to making such status terminable upon criminal conviction. 'You are a priest forever' is fiction. A person who commits crimes and is convicted of crimes should be automatically defrocked. This sanction should not apply only to Catholic priests but to all ministers of religion. Those professing to be priests, bishops, cardinals should require state licensing including the posting of fidelity bonds as sureties of good behavior. The recent scandals suggest there is no alternative for the state other than to license priests in the same way that medical practitioners, accountants, architects, lawyers, engineers etc are licensed by regulatory bodies. It would be open to the Catholic Church to apply to become a regulatory body.

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    4. Of course..! And the high possibility of accidental (and even deliberate--from a mischievous "penitent") mistaken identity.. Confessional would be inadmissible in court... Absolutely no question about it... Like blowing away a feather of evidence! Useless.....

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    5. The Devine Mercy to St. Faustina, Padre Pio, Medjugorje, La Salette, etc on the importance and reality of Christ present in confession.
      Fr Bill... sort yourself out and be a servent to the people.

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    6. 17.58. What a load of horse shit. Divine mercy my arse!!

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  18. Interesting point 12.00. Pat, should there be mandatory reporting by victims of abuse and injustice to avoid the spiritual mockers being put on the victim? Ie that it becomes a sin even by a victim to conceal abuse.

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    Replies
    1. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in the Australian bishops' refusal to comply with mandatory reporting of child-sexual abuse and their refusal to grant perpetrators of it absolution unless they hand themselves in to the police?

      The bishops are making such reporting mandatory not by Civil Law, but by Canon Law.

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    2. To be fair Magna I generally think you’re a balloon but you’re bang on as regards this. MMM

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  19. Poisonous old queen Biddy Buckley’s blog is a gossip shop for bitter auld handbags like herself.

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    Replies
    1. Sounds very like a Montitty quip @ 13.59.

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    2. Westminster gay mafia have the knives sharpened for you Pat @ 13.59. The worst you could fear from that lot is a hand bagging.

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    3. Howya Maureen @ 13:59 how’s it hanging?

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    4. 16 19: "Hanging too low....sadly". Might ask Pat or Mulvihill for advice as to rectification!!!

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    5. 16.08: You've obviously never seen Pat handbagging! He'd swat an army in one swing....

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  20. 13.59 when people like you comment, I think to myself, God must be blessing this work.A wise clergy man will surely learn from this blog because genuinely coping with this blog will help to prepare him for his future.

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  21. 12.34

    I suspect you need to determine your attractions.

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    Replies
    1. I suspect, or rather have confirmed now, that you are incapable of answering simple questions. That's fine though, the statement you made speaks volumes about where your mind is at.

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    2. Please, Bill, please. We would all love to know more about Formia and Gaeta.

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    3. Pray tell, Formia and Gaeta?

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    4. Villa Irlanda ... The Irish College summer residence of days of old. The days when send didn't go back to Ireland for holidays. It's all about what went on there during holidays over several decades from the 1950s through the 1970s. Brady is at its centre and all his pals and funny, you know, an awful lot of his "friends" became bishops in Ireland. They all know and protect each others dirty secrets.

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    5. Why would the Irish students not go to confession at Villa Irlanda? They preferred the local Italian PP. Those were the days of Donal Herlihy! It goes back a long long way!

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    6. Brady should stay in the Villa Irlanda permanently.

      https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g187790-d274093-Reviews-Villa_Irlanda_Grand_Hotel-Gaeta_Province_of_Latina_Lazio.html

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  22. 15.13: Billy Boy, we know your attractions.....down under and all!!

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  23. Coddle says:

    Archbishop Diarmuid Martin has asked each parish in the Archdiocese of Dublin to carry out a preliminary consultation on how to proceed with Church renewal after the World Meeting of Families.

    The Archbishop stressed the importance of addressing questions about faith. “Why are we no longer captivating so many of our young people for the message of Jesus Christ?

    I wonder why?

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  24. 16.13: Archbishop Martin is correct re: challenges for parishes, but we didn't need WMOF to make us realise this. Many priests and their parishes have been doing precisely this for years but our Bishops often don't see this!!!! What we need is recognition, encouragement and support from our Bishops...

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    1. Why do you feel need for support from those blackguards? 😕

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    2. So, if you have been doing this for years, please, please, tell us what you are doing to make the Church and the Faith something that speaks to people, including young people ? What specifically do you do to draw people to your parish and to give them something to keep them there, other than obligation and guilt ? I'd love to know.

      How do you account for the deep and horrific sins at the heart of our Church, and in the lives of those who are supposed to lead us and inspire us ? Yes, I get it about the Devil being at work etc. But so much of it has to do with human failure and selfishness, with clergy thinking they are beyond accountability, and clergy living a life that is comfortable and elegant, much more so than the people they serve can manage.

      The only solution is to bring clergy and bishops and those in authority in the Church down low and humble them. I am hoping that all this trouble will do precisely that. No more nice cars, lovely houses and designer kitchens and bathrooms. No more holidays in the sun where they wear thongs and sarongs. Rather, the realistic struggle of most people trying to make ends meet and keep the whole family show together. That's where clergy and bishops need to be, and that probably means that they need families and spouses and to live in the ordinary and real world.

      So, how about us stopping paying for all this stuff ? They are only able to lead these lives of delusion because we pay for it ! Give less, I say ! Hit them where it hurts most, not in the bollocks, but in the pocket and then they might take notice that things are not alright and that things need to change.

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    3. So, if you have been doing this for years, please, please, tell us what you are doing to make the Church and the Faith something that speaks to people, including young people ? What specifically do you do to draw people to your parish and to give them something to keep them there, other than obligation and guilt ? I'd love to know.

      How do you account for the deep and horrific sins at the heart of our Church, and in the lives of those who are supposed to lead us and inspire us ? Yes, I get it about the Devil being at work etc. But so much of it has to do with human failure and selfishness, with clergy thinking they are beyond accountability, and clergy living a life that is comfortable and elegant, much more so than the people they serve can manage.

      The only solution is to bring clergy and bishops and those in authority in the Church down low and humble them. I am hoping that all this trouble will do precisely that. No more nice cars, lovely houses and designer kitchens and bathrooms. No more holidays in the sun where they wear thongs and sarongs. Rather, the realistic struggle of most people trying to make ends meet and keep the whole family show together. That's where clergy and bishops need to be, and that probably means that they need families and spouses and to live in the ordinary and real world.

      So, how about us stopping paying for all this stuff ? They are only able to lead these lives of delusion because we pay for it ! Give less, I say ! Hit them where it hurts most, not in the bollocks, but in the pocket and then they might take notice that things are not alright and that things need to change.

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    4. 20.18: servingblogger: Your ignorant, untruthful soundbyte approach to my comment at 17.51 is undeserving of a response. It's just typical begrudgery and jealousy, based on hearsay and gossip. I thank God that I still have the strength, energy and commitment to work in a parish and I am grateful for the ways we work tigether as a community. We have a vision which we try to implement - to make our parish a caring, welcoming, inclusive and Christian community. My parishioners are generous but they know I live frugally. I don't need luxuries. When you learn respect and tolerance I might engage intelligently and rationally with you but your infantile approach is so silly. Keep generalising.....

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    5. Please don't encourage servingblogger. I can't abide another long winded never ending boring post from that new blogger windbag.

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    6. 22:45 & 22:59.....oh, it looks as though I've touched a rather sensitive nerve there ! I think, 22:45, you are being overly sensitive about your situation. Why ? If it's so perfect, then why not tell us about it, as I asked, instead of going off on one. Windbag, 22:59 ? At least I write proper prose constructed intelligently. And I spell check !

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  25. EDINBURGH GUY

    That's an announcement today in the clerical changes does not say the Father XXXXX XXXXX is retiring yet only ordained in 1989.

    And the other Priest who has gone c/o diocesean offices and young too.

    maybe KOB will get justice after all.

    One still in active ministry in the Archdiocese.

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  26. Presumably Pope Francis knows what he is doing in keeping silent.

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  27. A Priest who would break the SEAL of confession is a Priest who would break anything and believes in Nothing.

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  28. Magna: This comment at 00:02 is NOT from me, the 'original' and longstanding MMM. The same applies to a comment above at 14:31 on 3rd Sept, and a few other ones recently. While to date those comments have been relatively innocuous, I do not like it that someone feels it right, for whatever reason, to simulate my comments, and now, politely, ask you to please stop. MMM

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    Replies
    1. Don't worry, MMM. I knew they weren't from you. 👍

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