Tuesday, 11 July 2017

DIARMUID - ABSENCE - CHURCH - STATE



DERMO "NEVER AT HOME" MARTIN WAS AWAY ON ANOTHER JUNKET TRIP THIS WEEKEND - TO WURZBURG, GERMANY - TALKING ABOUT CHURCH AND STATE IN IRELAND.

He was making the point that there is great hostility in Ireland now to the Catholic Church. And so there is. There is also a growing anticlericalism.

But this hostility has not arisen because the Irish people are "bad" in any way.

It has arisen in response to a Catholic Hierarchy and clergy that has misruled Ireland for decades and centuries. We must acknowledge that many Catholic people and clergy/religious did good things here in Ireland.

But that good has been serious obscured by the emergence of so many abuse scandals by clergy and religious and by a hierarchy that covered it all up.

Apart from all the abuse scandals, many modern Irish people resent the stranglehold that the hierarchy and clergy had over our constitution, laws, social life, educational life, health service that turned Ireland into a CONFESSIONAL CATHOLIC STATE.

Not only was this bad for Catholics - but it also destroyed the Protestant population which was 12% in 1922 and quickly shrunk to 3%.

And it left the whole population subject to Roman Catholic teachings and deprived citizens of important things like family planning, divorce, contraception etc.

Many of our psychiatric wards were filled with poor individuals who not only had normal mental health problems - but those problems complicated by religious mania and chronic guilt. 

And the of late we have been drowned with:

- The scandal of priests and religious abusing our children.



- The scandal of our young pregnant being locked up as permanent slaves in Catholic convents.

- The scandal of the deaths of children in Catholic-run orphanages and their burial in underground septic tanks.

- The scandal of hypocritical clerics like Eamon Casey and Michael Cleary.

- The Maynooth scandals of clerics involved in internet sex.


Quite understandable the Irish people are screaming "ENOUGH".

And they are putting the blame firmly where it belongs - on the Roman Catholic institution and its bishops, priests, brothers and nuns.

If Ireland is HOSTILE it has been driven to hostility by Diarmuid Martin & Co.

If Ireland is anticlerical it has been forced to that position by clerics without consciences, ethics and compassion.


The Roman Catholic Church must draw back and rethink its position and its practices.

It must stop expecting to be treated with favouritism .

It must stop expecting doctors, judges, lawyers, policemen, civil servants etc to be afraid of the POWER OF THE CROSIER.

Go away boys and do some reflection and penance.

Then come back to us and ask our forgiveness.

Give us back our hospitals and our schools.

And when we SEE that you have changed - we might call off our hostilities.

In the meantime remember it's not the 1950's. Ireland has changed. We are becoming a  modern 21st-century European pluralist and secular democracy.

Image result for anti priest

You will not stop that procession towards democracy, pluralism and secularism.

Accept that modern reality or "GET THEE TO A NUNNERY".


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37 comments:

  1. Martin in an ostrich with his head in the sand. He needs to realise there is no anti-church sentiment in Ireland. What people object to is the carry on of the clergy and Bishops acting above the law. If the Church implemented it's own teachings there would simply be debate about certain moral questions instead of disgust at clerical conduct.

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    1. @7.40...

      That's correct.

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  2. Pat how the hell is the Church responsible for protestants dropping off? Do you actually read what you write?! Sure get your bowler hat ready for the wee marches.

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    1. Protestants were forced to live in a confessional Catholic state.

      One instance. When they married a Catholic they had to sign a document guaranteeing that all children would be brought up RC!

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    2. All that said, Ne temere was something of a blunt instrument in that it insisted that all marriages involving Catholics (which would obviously include a marriage between a Catholic and a Protestant) should be before a Catholic priest and two witnesses. If historically, Protestant anger at the decree has been directed towards the issue of the religious upbringing of children, it was this edict that should have caused most concern as it could be interpreted as the Catholic Church, inadvertently or otherwise, legislating for Protestants.

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    3. You have some tint in your glasses. I suppose you think the penal laws were perfectly legitimate? Cop on to yourself with your idiotic understanding of history.

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    4. I think the Penal Laws were horrific.

      I think Catholic laws that discriminated against Protestants were bad too.

      All religious discrimination is an evil thing

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  3. I have always said big headlines have a short shelf life. Dermo can talk about poor church state relations but life goes on as normal. I wonder who cares anymore. Might be worth looking at some of the big topics on here over time. What happened over time when the dust settled. Some might say nothing

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  4. In Lancashire UK all churches, Catholic and Protestant are in free fall. Society is changing rapidly and the churches can't keep up. I think the cathedrals will stay and some of the most beautiful churches. Those who are interested will probably paddle their own canoe.

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    1. Hi Jane, I notice ICKSP have been given charge of St. Thomas of Canterbury & English Martyrs as well as St. Walburge's, both in Preston. They will keep an ordinary rite on Saturdays for a period of 12 months and monitor attendance. How do you imagine many feel about this? Better than it being closed of course, but do you think the situation is as dire as the Bishop says? Maybe it is generally welcomed? Time to ordain devout parishoners and move to congregational governance me thinks. What do you think of it all Jane? Kind Regards..t https://bishopcampbellsblog.wordpress.com/2017/07/09/a-decision-to-save-and-secure-english-martyrs-church-preston-now-and-for-the-future/

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    2. It is a beautiful building, as is St Walbergs. It is better than it being demolished. IKCSP is not my personal taste. Society is moving rapidly and leaving the church behind. We were in crisis 26 years ago and now we are dangling over a cliffe. The last two bishops have sent us back to the dark ages. The present bishop brought in the Sisters of Mercy from Alma Michigan for evangelization. Totally unsuitable for Lancashire. There was a huge row and he was forced to withdraw them. We are waiting for a new bishop. He may be too little too late. I feel sorry for the good priests we have I suspect the bishops have been foul with them. I am lucky I have a lot of very high class theology in my book case. I can paddle my own canoe. I think most of the clergy will be horrified. Cardinal Burke called into see them a couple of years ago and met up with Bishop Michael. Reform of the church should have stated at least 50 years ago. Bishops should be elected for a 5year period. Priests should be allowed to marry. They should have the same human rights as everyone else. Part time priests who work during week should be trained to say mass. Women should be able to at least become deacons and preachers. The only feeling I have for the church is anger. Preston used to be 40% catholic, partly because we missed out on the reformation and partly because of Irish immigrants. Preston means priest town. The lamb of God in the town emblem with 'p p' underneath...Prince of Peace. One of the main streets is called Friargate. All the schools are named after the Lancashire martyrs. The church has destroyed itself with its lying arrogant bullying behaviour.... and yet I believe in every heart there is gap that only God can fill. It is a seismic shift.

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    3. Interesting points on reform;
      Elect a bishop, just like an Abbott, part-time priests, just like Marionite Catholics, women preachers, just like female electors, married priests, just like the early church, women deacons, arguably these too existed in the early church. - all have easy precedents bringing us back to our early roots... makes a man wonder why the Church is so against such reforms (probably the Corrupt Cabal of Rome).

      But I must object to your statement on the last two Bishops. Bishop Patrick found a diocese in financial chaos with huge debt and hemoraging finances. He restructured and reformed and but for him the diocese would be bankrupt and you'd be buying memorabilia of St. Walburgs from the receivers. Bishop Michael, I left Cumbria shortly after he arrived so I cannot comment - Except to say he tried something at least.

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    4. Thank You Jane, bless you. :-)

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    5. Jane and Tom, please exchange mobile numbers so we can be excused your rants about Cumbria, Lancashire on this blog. The diocese of Lancaster and its pathetic Bishop.

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  5. You're right, Sean - - the attitude of many observers is - - Let people jump up and down and rant and rave all the like... when they're tired they'll quit!

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  6. I think the Catholic Church in Ireland will just wither on the vine with so few vocations ending with ordination, or falling by the wayside shortly afterwards. Also, I can’t imagine it having much influence in the future if it must rely on all those silly queens at Maynooth causing one outrageous scandal after another.

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  7. I was amused to read about the report on here the other day of the D&C priest who apparently dared to ask Archbishop Diarmuid Questionmark about whether he would be publishing his clerical changes this year.

    Archbishop Questionmark, it was said, looked astonished and asked the priest what diocese he was from. Such cheek. It verges on asking Queen Elizabeth what colour of knickers she's wearing.

    Archbishop Questionmark wouldn't be used to a minion daring to ask him a question you see. He's the asker of all the questions.

    And he is also the man about whom there are many many questions. Indeed, he is quite a puzzle! ;-)

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  8. So is He gonna ordain georgous?

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  9. It's become very apparent that DM enjoys spending time in places as long as it's not in Dublin. He has a disregard for most of his clergy and the Archdiocese as a whole. He favours the few and seems to be protective of his gay clergy. He has been moving Clergy around at present but has the arrogance not to publish these changes. DM has also showed arrogance and disgust to someone who dared to ask him about these changes. How the hell did anyone recommend him to be Archbishop of Dublin? It is they who have to answer some serious questions. DM's legacy will be failure, especially failure to give and show leadership, leaving behind a totally demoralised clergy. It will be as a result of spending more time outside the Archdiocese than within it, it will be failure to deal with the Gaynooth scandal. It will also be his publicity stunt in sending/rewarding people like Gorgeous and Gannon to Rome. The list goes on .......

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  10. Hey Tom Wood, do you have an information on Ampleforth, I have visted 4 times now and i am seriously considering joining the community/

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    1. @17.58 (I am not Tom Wood..)
      You were enquiring to find out someone else's opinion or experience of Ampleforth..
      I wonder what your response to the man in this story would be? - - - The man was standing outside a highly respected men's retailers store in town and was carefully studying a well -
      made tailored outfit on display in the window. A business man came out of the shop and noticed his interest in the suit. The business man paused briefly and said to him "-Wouldn't be any use to you.. I've already tried it on. Looks great, but it doesn't fit!"
      "Oh thanks," said the first man, "that's what I wanted to know,"
      and without another glance, he hurried off...

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    2. You're a parable-teller, aren't you? And I see your point. It's a good one, but perhaps not universally applicable.

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    3. Thanks Magna! (nice to hear from you - -) Yes, you're right about my parable and as you say, they are never universally applicable but maybe give a little food for thought..

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    4. Hi 17:58, I cannot personally speak of Ampleforth but if after 4 visits you very much want to join I would get in touch with the novice master and see what they advise. Remember that if that community doesn't suit there are other Benedictine houses and of course other orders and some people are becoming solitaries in their own homes and regular lives. I imagine your Bishop might be able to advise on that being consecrated. Again, at the end of the day, you could always look to start your own commune (ity) and look for others similarly interested. I imagine that might be much harder to get officially recognised, but there is nothing wrong with a group of men or women or mixed community attempting to live a holy life together and supporting themselves either by regular jobs or a joint venture. Check out the ecumenical / interspiritual Foundation For New Monasticism http://www.new-monastics.com/ for ideas / advice on either new forms or more traditional forms. With all good wishes and every blessing on the fruition of your vocation, wherever His voice leads!

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  11. Dermo sometimes looks at his Priests as if they were something on the end of his shoe. I'm not surprised morale among the Clergy in Dublin is relatively low. The laity don't always see this side of him but if you attend any clergy gathering it's very obvious and not pleasant. The man is unhappy, doesn't want to be in charge of Dublin, doesn't even want to be physically in Dublin.

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  12. Does anyone from personal experience know any Irish or UK Bishop who is kindly to his Priests and cares for them. I'm in the process of wanting to leave my present diocese because the Bishop is frankly rather a horrible man. I'm not going into detail about my present diocese or situation, that would be unfair. I am a Priest in very good standing with no baggage. Any realistic feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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    1. The archbishop of Birmingham. I have also heard good thinks about the archbishop of Liverpool.

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    2. Thank you for that but I wouldn't consider the Bishop in Birmingham and as for the one in Liverpool I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. I'm sorry to say that, I just know many Priests in both Dioceses and these dioceses would be off my radar from experience and from what I hear, particularly Liverpool. Thank you all the same.

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    3. In my personal experience should I seek to change bishop I would speak to either Bishop Mark O'Toole (Plymouth) or Archbishop Stack (Cardiff). There is of course Bishop Pat Buckley too who's oratory is also a caring, faithful option.

      I wish you luck my struggling friend for today the Luke 9:1-4 is your Gospel passage. But don't so many flower buds look like the struggle before they blossom.

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  13. Are you marching tomorrow Buckley with your orange friends? Larne is probably the best place to be on the 12th. You should set up a tea tent and capatilise on the whole shindig.

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  14. 19:22
    I feel really badly for you. Do you at least have the support of colleagues to help you get through?

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    1. Thank you for your very kind reply 21.21. You will find in my situation and predicament that you have no support. When you have a tyrannical Bishop who has Priests afraid to speak out then you're on a hiding to nothing. Loss of earnings, loss of home, loss of any funds, loss of support because fellow Priests are afraid to upset the Bishop. Basically on the dung heap.

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    2. Someone said today - life's not easy, so always share compassion.

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  15. 21.52
    Just leave, u are not happy in your job...sorry to call it a job,but in reality it is.
    Contact Fr pat if all else fails
    Just leave and do something else
    You not the first and certainly not the last

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    1. Will you give me a job or roof over my head - great! If not then don't bother commentating, your advice is the worst advice. It's great to feel secure and comment from a keyboard but it's not from my situation.

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    2. @15.23
      Good reply to unhelpful anon 22:26.

      I sincerely encourage you to speak with Bishop Mark O'Toole in Plymouth. He is an understanding man and cares for priests and parishioners well.

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